Halford & Brough in the Morning - The Seahawks Were Not Happy After That Loss

Episode Date: November 17, 2025

In hour two, Mike & Jason look back at a memorable Week 11 with Too Deep Zone NFL insider Mike Tanier (1:16), plus they discuss this past weekend's Grey Cup with 3 Down Nation's Justin Dunk (25:41). This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

7.0.7.3 on a Monday. Happy Monday, everybody. Halford, Brough, Sportsnet, 650. This is my favorite song. Halford and Brough of the Morning is brought to by Sands and Associates. Score a debt freedom hat trick. One, no more interest, too much lower payments, and three. Financial peace of mind for the Hattie. Visit them online at Sands. That's trustee.com.

We are now in hour two of the program. Mike Tanny, our NFL insider from the two deep zone, is going to join us in just a moment here to kick off Hour 2. Hour 2 is brought to by Jason hominock at Jason. If you love giving the banks more of your money, then don't let Jason shop around to find the perfect mortgage for you. Visit them online at Jason. Dom Mortgage. We are coming to you live from the Kintech

Studio, Kintech footwear and orthotics working together with you in Step. To the phone lines we go. Our next guest is a presentation of the Clayton Public Houses. Our Monday morning quarterback from the two deep zone. Mike Tanny are here on the Halford & Brough show on SportsNet 650.

Morning. Michael, how are you? I'm doing great. Greetings from Philadelphia where the Eagles are 8 and 2 and everyone is miserable. Is it because of the way they play football? It's because they bludgeon people on prime time? Has that last three games in the last three years or something like that's crazy. They win all the time.

They have zero, zero style points when they do it. But it is wildly effective. And they absolutely neutered Jared Goff and the Lions. So let's start there. That was like quintessential Philadelphia Eagles football, was it not? Absolutely. It was ugly. It was grungy.

It felt too close for comfort. You know, I have to remind my neighbors in the neighborhood. You know, those were the lions. Those were not the Giants, those were not the Jets, those were the Lions. You're leading 16 to 6 in the fourth quarter, you're doing something right. Most of what you're doing right is on defense, but this is an Eagles team that now, I believe, it's two wins in six days by a combined final score of 26 to 16. It's not perfect by any means, but if you look across the NFL, that's how all the good teams won,

except the Bills on Sunday. It was a defensive battles, there was windy days. They had to take what they could get. They had to engineer victories, and the ones that did it, did it. They pulled it off. We will get to the Rams and Seahawks here in a sec, but I just had one follow-up because I was, you know, in the aftermath of the Sunday nighter,

and they're just talking about how dominant that Philly defense was. Is it because the line is so good, starting with Jalen Carter, that they just disrupt everything that offenses want to do? Everything's working in harmony now that they're a little healthier than they were at the beginning of the year. The line with Jalen Carter is stronger now. They had a Jalen Phillips at the trade deadline. Nolan Smith, who was a high draft pick a couple of years ago.

He's back. He missed five or six games. Secondary is also very strong. Where Quinnion Mitchell can generally erase your number one receiver. And Cooper DeGon, who had a big interception, can erase your slot guy? Meanwhile, Zach Bonn is probably the best linebacker in the NFL. So at every stage along the way, the Eagles have a solution. Vic Fangio has a very straightforward scheme that's subtle, doesn't put people in

position where they're going to make mistakes. It all works in harmony. And that's why they're getting out there and beating some very, very good offenses this year. Who is more likely to miss the playoffs? The Detroit Lions or the Kansas City Chiefs? Kansas City Chiefs are more likely to miss the playoffs. And one reason why is if you look at the lions and the standings, the Bears are a game ahead of them. And the Bears are not for real. They've been playing a very soft schedule. They've been beating bad teams in the fourth quarter on field goals, they're not going to be able to sustain that. The upcoming bear

schedule has the Packers twice. It's at the Eagles. I think it's got the Lions again. It's got some opportunities for the Bears to fall off and the Lions to build up some victories and get up there. You look at the Kansas City Chiefs right now. They are one, two,

how many games behind the Broncos? Good heavens. There are four games behind the Broncos. And their playoff portfolio of tiebreakers doesn't look good because of a loss of the charges, because the loss of the Broncos, cause the lost to the Jaguars who could be one of the

other wild card teams they're competing with. So as stunning as it is, it's almost like dizzying to think about this, but the chiefs have put themselves in a bad position where if they wind up like 10 and 7 and in second place, they might not be the wild card because they've got too many losses

to head-to-head opponents. Okay, let's get to the Rams and Seahawks game. You wrote about it in the walkthrough on the two-deep zone. And fittingly, you focused on the Rams side of things because the Rams did win the football game. I do want to ask you, though, about Sam Darnold, because a lot of the consternation

right now is in the big moments when the spotlight is on. I saw in the playoffs last year with Minnesota, we saw it in this Bally Hood game going into this week. Darnold puts up a clunker and it was a four-interception clunker against the Rams. What did you see from Darnold than I suppose the Rams defense as well

causing the four-turnovers? Well, it was a four-interception clunker so bad that the Seahawks otherwise played well enough that they would have won a three-interception clunker. That's what's frustrating. And folks who watch the game also know there was an almost fumble where Donald almost fumbled the ball away. They called it an incomplete pass. They were all a couple of on the run, throwaway, desperate heat throwaways, you know, near the goal line.

If they punch in a touchdown, it's a different game. They settle for field goals. Lots of games like that. And like you said, Donald has done this in the past. That's his reputation. Also a little frustrating if you start breaking down the interstretched. I think Tom Brady was talking about it. Some of those are on the receivers a little bit.

You start to realize that you have a lot of inexperienced guys when you're not talking about spit the jigbo when you're not talking about cup. When you start looking at Arroyo, you start looking at Barner, they run a slightly wrong route. It's going to create an opportunity for a defender to jump in front of that route. That's what happened in one or two of those interceptions. So it was a little bit of a, let's say, a reality check for the Seahawks in terms of, you know, what their ceiling is this year.

I don't think that they're going to be a Super Bowl team with Sam Donald, a quarterback, and with all that inexperience on offense. Rams are on the other side of that. Experience guys, Sean McVeigh's experience, Super Bowl coach, Matthew Stafford, obviously, they're going to be able to go out there, manufacture the wins they need. And as I wrote, don't forget, the Rams could be undefeated right now. Yeah. It was all field goal blocks and field goal mistakes against both the Eagles and the 49ers in their losses.

So when that team is kicking straight, they're one of the best teams in the NFL, and they're going to be hard to catch. I was trying to think of the biggest game that Sam Darnold has ever won in his career. And, like, to be fair to him, he played on some bad teams. But, you know, I think, you know, everyone talks about the Lions game at the end of last season. And, of course, the playoff game against the Rams. And he obviously didn't play well in that. The protection wasn't great for him either. He won some games down the stretch.

like the beat Green Bay but I was kind of like, wait a minute like was the biggest game Sam Garnold has ever won in his career? The 2017 Rose Bowl where USC beat Penn State and that was kind of where everyone was like oh this guy

could be a very high draft because he was very good in that game. Do you buy into these narratives of quarterbacks when people say like you know he's fine and you know when there's no pressure on him or against a mediocre team, but once you get a good team and there's a big game, he shrinks. I think it's rare for that really to be the case that like the quarterback himself goes out there

and panics and starts shaking and his knees get weak. I don't think that is, that happens very often. I don't think that's the case with Donald. What you see is the competition getting better and the the stakes getting higher and the quarterback like at the limit of his ability and realizing he has to reach back for something more than he needs to win a routine game against the Arizona Cardinals or something like that. Like, Sam Donald can no longer play within the system

and get the ball to Jackson Smith and Jigba and rely on his defense in this game. He has to do more. Same thing last year. He can't rely on the defense in Justin Jefferson to get the win. He's got to do more. There's an injury or two in the offensive line. There was an injury on the Seahawks line. Then you see the limit of the guy.

And those are the situations where you're Mahomes, you're Allen, you're Jalen, you're Jail and you know, all these guys come back and they can consistently make these huge plays to get wins. And then you look at your Sam Donald and your Kirk Cousinses and guys like that. And they just fall short of that. They get show artists' reputations, but it's really just this is as good as you are. And it's unlikely that you're going to get much better without a lot of help. We're speaking to Mike Tanier, our Monday morning quarterback here on the Halford & Brough Show on SportsNet 650.

Mike is a presentation of the Clayton Public House. Pre-game to post game, the Clayton Public House is your home of football. catch all the action on 15 screens and two giant projectors. That's 17 screens for you athletes out there. Visit them online at the Clayton Pub.com. Let's talk about the Buffalo Bills here, Mike. I've been trying to figure out this team all season long. And what you wrote about the Incredible Hulk bills

against the Bruce Banner Bills might be the best and most accurate representation I've seen this year. Please explain to our listeners this dynamic. Well, sometimes the bills are the Incredible Hulk and they smash all the puny here. humans in their way. And sometimes they turn back into, you know, Bruce Banner, the ordinary guy, and they get the daylights beat out of them by the dolphins and the falcons.

And there's a couple reasons for it. One is that their run defense is not particularly good. So if they're facing Devana A. Chan, or if they're facing Bejan Robinson, those guys are going to run the ball very well on them. Sean Tucker ran for a hundred and some yards on them. And he's a nobody for the Buccaneers yesterday. but that's not enough to beat the bills, but bills have to beat themselves offensively,

where they have to go out there in one of these goofy game plans where Josh Allen tries to win the game by throwing three touchdowns with one pass in the first quarter, and they make a couple of mistakes, and they have a turnover, a couple of three-and-ounce, and then suddenly they're down 14-0 or 10-0, and then the bills start panicking.

And when they start panicking, they start doing dumber stuff on offense and everything snowballs on them. There was a risk of that against the Buccaneers yesterday. When people watching that game, they saw Josh Allen throwing an interception from his own end zone where he kind of shot put into the ball with both hands. It was ridiculous. And they're giving up a lot of plays in the running game.

But then they shifted into the Hulk smash mode. They forced a couple mistakes from the Buccaneers. Their kickoff return guys were just running all over the place, giving them easy drives. And then Josh Allen basically became the Hulk and won the game. So bills are still very, very good. it's just that once a month they're also really really bad and you never know when that's going to happen okay i got a bunch of quarterback questions i want to ask because there were a lot of developments at the position first off did you get a chance to see shader sanders under center for the browns on the weekend

oh did i i couldn't wait i had to go at 11 o'clock last night and get the replay off nfl plus so I could watch every single snap-up. And? Oh, my gosh. It's like they pulled a very athletic young man off the street, handed him the football and said, go get him, you fella. Sanders is, I mean,

deer in the headlight sacks. Intentional grounding penalties where he waits too long, kind of jobs to the side, just throws the ball out of bounds, interception right to the defender with no receiver nearby, almost interception, bounces off Kyle Hamilton's hand, he threw maybe two passes that were good.

I think he was 4 of 16 in the game. Balls are just spraying all over the place. He's taking sacks. When he scrambles, he's okay, but he's not Lamar Jackson. He's not that fast. So if at third and 12, he's going to scramble for six yards. He's not going to scramble for 15 yards. And just a feeling, anything that like the stereotype

or the presupposition that he's going to go out there, he's going to look unprepared, he's going to look like he's playing recess playground ball. it was all true. And it's got to be very frustrating for Kevin Stefansky. It's got to be very frustrating for Browns fans. They had a 16 to 6 lead. He had to figure out a way of preserving a lead,

and he was so bad, and the Brown's offense became so hopeless that the Ravens just like, would kick a field goal, kick a field goal, kick a field goal, and then they got the late touchdown. Most people saw from Mark Andrews on the fake tush push,

and that was all they needed. So very interesting but bad performance by Shador San. Okay, another quarterback question. The return of Brock Purdy in San Francisco did that, I don't know it's one game, but did that sort of silence any of those suggestions that it didn't matter who is a quarterback, Mack Jones or Brock Purdy. The Purdy is obviously the superior QB.

I hope it silenced them. And all credit in the world to Mac Jones, who went out there and ran the offense and a lot of times had nothing around them, manufactured some wins. We mentioned earlier they manufactured a win against the Rams where it was basically the Rams kept missing field goals and stuff like that. So, you know, credit to Jones, Purdy is better. And it was silly to suggest

otherwise. People forget that Purdy was in the Super Bowl against Patrick Mahomes, had the lead in overtime when he walked off the field in the Super Bowl. People forget how capable he was. People get carried away with saying, well, it was all McCaffrey, it was all Kiddle, it was all Ayuk, it was all Debo, whatever.

Went out there, absolutely just manhandled a fading Cardinals team. And that's 41-22 game was not as close as the score. So I'm glad parties back because I don't want to hear about that controversy anymore. How much concern should there be in Minnesota about J.J. McCarthy? A lot. A whole lot. He does not look good. He does not look crisp. I know he has a hand injury and that was a problem,

but he was almost like windmilling throws off the sidelines, just off target. dealt with a couple drop passes too that were uncharacteristic by Jordan Addison. and T.J. Hawkinson. But it's rapidly looking like, you know, there's two outcomes for McCarthy. He's either hurt or he's out there and your offense is just running in safe mode. And that's got to be a real problem because, again, they don't have a backup. Carson Wentz is out of there. This is the second year.

Week to week, they don't know what they're dealing with McCarthy. And they were hoping to at least see him able to manufacture wins. Yesterday, they almost pulled it off, but it was because of their running game. It was because of their defense. He manufactured another loss, didn't look good in it. Real trouble for JJ McCarthy and the Vikings. I hope you didn't sit through the Titans' Texans game, but I'm only going to ask you about another quarterback

because the Seahawks go to Tennessee to play the Titans next week. What has the season been like for Cam Ward? Oh, it's been nightmarish. You know, he's stuck with almost no receivers. His number one receivers, Calvin Ridley, and it's going to be like a catch a drop, a catch a drop, a catch a drop, That's your trouble with Calvin Ridley is your number one. Ward plays his hard out, has nothing around him.

Offense is extremely mistake-prone, false starts, holding penalties, et cetera. This should be a game at the Seahawks should absolutely neutralize everything around Ward. They should be able to move the ball on the defense that's just on the field too long all the time. This should be a very easy win for the Seahawk. How many years of struggling is it going to be for Cam Ward at Tennessee? You know, not that I'm like, not that I'm super invested in his personal story, but I think we've just seen so many guys that have been drafted high overall that have gone to bad organizations.

And the organizations just haven't had the time or the expertise to get better. And those guys were like, I got no chance. And then eventually they find a team that does have attack together. And what do you know? They look a lot better. The Sam Darnold story. Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of Baker Mayfield. Yeah, the Baker-Mayfield story, the Daniel Jones story is kind of like the story of the NFL that, like, people in the know look at it, and these bad organizations should be looking at themselves and figuring out how to get better, and instead, you know, they fire their coaches and then do crazy stuff.

For Ward, the other rookies that they drafted around him look pretty good. The Cameron D.K., Gunner Helm, the other receiver, they've been playing pretty well. So there's like a little bit of a young nucleus there. They've got to find a head coach. They fired their head coach a couple weeks ago. They're not going to move forward with Mike McCoy. It could be another year or two, but we know how it is in the NFL. You get the right schedule.

You get like one or two guys in free agency and you drift. Well, all of a sudden, you could be the Patriots. You could be the Patriots in a year. That's hard to do. But that should be what the Titans are hoping to accomplish when they go out there and they search for a new brain trust this off season. Mike, we will spare you from having to preview the Monday nighter between the Cowboys and the Raiders.

And instead, we will just say thank you, as always, for doing this on a Monday. We really appreciate it. Great rundown of everything that happened yesterday. And enjoy the, try and enjoy it tonight, but enjoy the rest of the week. The Raiders in primetime again, there was really like, oh, we were excited at all these primetime games at the beginning of the season. It's just embarrassing. What have we done to deserve this?

That's how I'm asking. Mike, thanks for doing this, bud. You got it. Take care. Enjoy your week. Yeah, you too. Thanks. That's Mike Tanier, our NFL Insider from the two deep zone here on the Halford and Bruff Show.

on Sportsnet, 650. Yeah, that Seahawks game last yesterday. A real disappointment, and daggers out. Can we get the audio up here of Ernest Jones talking about defending his quarterback? So the daggers were out big time for Sam Darnold after the four interception performance in a game that had a lot of hype going into it.

Two seven and two teams atop the NFC West, battling for divisional supremacy. A lot of people said, whoever wins this game is the best team in the entire NFC. And you had MVP conversations around Darnold and Stafford. And once again, Sam Darnold goes into a much Ballyhooed game and stinks the joy now.

Four interceptions, not a good day. As Mike mentioned, it could have even been more turnovers for Darnold. Although the Seahawks had a chance to win that one on a 61-year field goal late. But in the aftermath, and I hope we've got the bleeped version of this, linebacker Ernest Jones,

he went to the wall for his quarterback, stood up for Sam Darnold and said anyone that's critiquing his QB. Well, they can do something to themselves and they can go somewhere. He said it in much more harsh terms. Here's linebacker Ernest Jones following the Seahawks lost to the Rams, defending his QB following Sunday's game. I mean, Sam's been bawling. Like, if we want to try to define Sam by this game or what, man, Sam's been had us in every game. So for him to sit there and say, oh, that's my fault. No, it's not. It was plays that defensively we could have made plays.

There were opportunities where we could have got better stops. yeah i mean like it's football man he's our quarterback we got his back and you got anything to say quite frankly you so this is the seahawks schedule it goes at tennessee to play the titans i think the seahawks are going to be like 13 point favorites in that game that's in tennessee too yeah yeah and then they're home to face the vikings and when we talked about j g mccarthy he ain't it no and then they go to Atlanta. Did Pennix get hurt? Pennicks got hurt yesterday.

Kirk Cousins came in, yeah. And then they host Indianapolis. And then it's the return matchup with the Rams. That's a Thursday nighter. In Seattle. Yeah, and that's going to be, I mean, I'm looking at the schedule, and then they go to Carolina. That'll be tougher than it may be expected,

and they finish with San Francisco. But, like, the Seahawks, I mean, if they don't make the playoffs, I mean, that's like one of the great collapses. They're making the playoffs. I think it's just whether or not they can come back and win the division. And I'm because I'm so positive, I'm always been, you know, optimist, right, at all times. I'm actually choosing to be encouraged by that, the fact that they were a field goal away. I mean, the field goal is about 30 yards short and 20 yards right.

Wasn't great. But wasn't great. But, you know, Darnold threw four picks. He was awful. You're allowed to have a clunker in a season when you've been otherwise great. Yeah. And they nearly won that game because the defense showed up. And, you know, I just think they're a pretty good team.

And I don't know if they're Super Bowl contenders, but, you know, they, they're, I think they're pretty soundly run operation, to be perfectly honest with you. Going into this game, they were in contention to be, in that conversation for best, team in the NFC, and the other team that was in that conversation was the team they lost to the Rams. It was a one-score game. They had a chance to win in a regulation. So despite the four interceptions, I don't think it really changes too much about the generic outlook of the team. I think there is some concerns about Darnold's ceiling in these big games. Well, the team as a whole, and mostly this is on Darnold, they got to protect the football a lot better. They're one of the

worst teams when it comes to giving up the balls, whether it's interceptions or fumbles. That that absolutely has to improve. Okay, it is time now for tonight's One to Watch, brought to you by Limitless AV, Vancouver's most trusted audiovisual integration experts. I'm going to go out on a limb with tonight's one to watch. I'm going to keep it on the Vancouver Canucks as we are wont to do here. I'm going to go with David Kompf,

the newly acquired Canucks Center. We're not 100% sure that he's going to play tonight. That's because there's not going to be a morning skate in Florida this morning, given the Canucks played last night. head coach Adam Foote will meet with the media at approximately 445 Eastern so 145 our time and we would hope that at that point he would say whether or not comp would be in the lineup but I'm willing to go out on a limb and make them the one to watch and what could be his connect's debut maybe he'll find himself on the sheet tonight Greg I don't know do you have a backup

pick if he doesn't play Kevin Lankenin will we go Lankin Lankin Lankin in the 3 and 4 there's another one to watch. And I guess I got a third one as well. If it's not Lankan, then it's 100% Yuri Patera who'll be making his Canucks and season debut. What are we doing for pronunciations? We do this with every new player, it seems, in Vancouver. We go on comp for

Camp. I'm going to go with Shorty was saying Camp. I'm going to go with Camp, I think. Yeah, yeah. Comf, I don't know. There's a book. Yeah. What's the book about? I'm going to stay away from that. I'm going to go with camp. I'm going to go to the North American

He's like, it's camp, it's camp. I will say, though, that there's three choices for the one to watch. Limitless A.V is really going above and beyond. They are Vancouver's most trusted audiovisual integration experts, specializing in seamless video conferencing solutions and hybrid workspaces. Book your personalized tour of their experience center today at limitlessav.ca. Half of the show is in the books. The other half is coming up.

We're going to talk some CFL in the Grey Cup. Congratulations to the Saskatchewan. Riders won their first grade cup since 2013 yesterday. Justin Dunk SportsNet and three-down nation CFL reporter is going to join us to break it all down and put a bow on this CFL campaign. You're listening to the

Halford & Brough Show on SportsNet 650. Hey, it's Jamie Dodd and Thomas Strance. Get your daily dose of Canucks Talk with us weekdays from 12 to 2 on SportsNet 650 or catch up on demand through your favorite podcast app. 734 on a Monday, 734 on a Monday,

happy Monday, everybody, Halford Brubs, Sportsnet, 650. Halford in the morning is brought to you by Sand. and associates. Only a license insolvency trustee can cut your debt by up to 80% with no upfront fees. To learn more, visit sands dash trustee.com. We are in our two of the program with the midway point of the show. Justin Dunk, CFL reporter from SportsNet and Three Down Nation. It's going to join us in a moment here for a Grey Cup recap. Our two of this program is brought to by Jason hominock at jason.com. If you love paying too much for your mortgage, then don't I'll let Jason shop around to find the perfect mortgage for you.

Visit them online at Jason Dow Mortgage. Congrats are in order to the Saskatchewan Roughwriters. They beat the Alouettes 25 to 17 on Sunday night for their fifth ever gray cup title. Joining us now to break it down and put a bow on this CFL season. As mentioned, Justin Dunk from SportsNet and Three Down Nation here on the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. Good morning, Justin. How are you? Good morning.

Doing well, fellas, on little rest, but we're pushing through. Did you thaw out from yesterday? It looked like it was cold. No, it actually wasn't too bad. You know, the press box has windows around it, but it was a little chilly in there. But overall, like being on the field post game, did not feel cold at all. Like, beautiful mid-November weather in Winnipeg. So how did the rough riders do this? How did they turn it around and win a Grey Cup?

Because it was a few years of struggles for the riders. It definitely was. I think it begins with Jeremy O'Day hiring Corey Mesa's the head. coach completely changed the direction of this franchise after two six and 12 seasons where the team wasn't able to win a game after Labor Day under Craig Dickinson. So Dickinson gets fired. In comes Corey Mason creates this culture where it's family-centric and they work hard, but the team is also close-knit and hold each other to a high standard.

And I think that's really where you have to look in terms of turning this franchise around first. The other part of it is Trevor Harris being fully healthy for the majority of the 2025 season. He only missed one start due to a head injury, took a nasty shot in Toronto early in the year, missed one start. Jake Mayer was able

to win it for Saskatchewan. Trevor Harris being healthy and on the field was a real key for Saskatchewan. It's kind of unfair that Shea Patterson now goes down in Grey Cup infamy with that goal line fumble with 253 left. And I know that the owls had a chance afterwards. They did get the

ballback, including that last second heave into the end zone. But is it fair to say that the game was decided with two-fifty-three left when Patterson fumbled that ball? Definitely. I don't think it's unfair. You're going to much cough the football up, fellas. Like, Tavon Campbell got credited with the strip, the Canadian

defensive back, but Chey Patterson has to keep that football in his hands in that situation, essentially with the game on the line. If he goes in and scores there, it's completely different guys. Like, obviously there's going to be a two-point convert that's needed to tie it up, but the ending would have had a much different feel instead of

Davis-Alexander heaving Hail Mary into the end zone and Marcus sales making a play on the ball to end the game for Sask. How different would the ending of being with the new clock rules? I have to admit that I fully don't understand all the changes that they're going to make, but like, you know, I know people are worried about it, and I'm just wondering about your thoughts on just like how end of games are going to look different under the new rules? That's still to be determined. And part of my issue with how Stuart Johnston rolled out the rule changes is that he said,

we're going to have this 35 second play clock that's actually, they think, going to allow for more plays for the rest of the part of the game. But then fans are like, well, how is it going to work in the final three minutes? Are you going to have a 35 second play clock that choose extra time off and allows you less plays in the final three minutes, which the majority of fans, if not fans who have never seen the Canadian Football League absolutely fall for in terms of the entertainment value for this league. So that's going to go to Rules Committee in the offseason. Stuart Johnston is saying that he does not want to change the final three minutes at all.

So we'll have to see how that shakes out. Because it wouldn't be a CFL game unless a broadcaster would say, and there's 30 seconds left in the game, and that's an eternity in the CFL, right? That has to be part of it. How was the commissioner received in Winnipeg? You know, when he handed the Grey Cup out to the Saskatchewan Rough Riders, there were a lot of booze, fellas. And I contrast that with Stuart Johnston on Friday at a state of the league address,

saying all of the fans are in favor of these rule changes. I just don't think he's reading the room, guys. I understand trying to be a politician. little bit and selling the rule changes because you went ahead and implemented them and didn't even try to put them through the rules committee because you didn't think it would pass but you need to understand what your fans are telling you what your customers ultimately are telling you so I think him implementing these rule changes and then saying stuff like that like well all the fans like it tells the fans if he's not hearing

them. So he was booed, you know, in multiple places around Winnipeg when fans saw him, like including on the field of Great Cup, which is the loudest booze. But it's unanimous amongst the fans. There's a real hate for this guy. I just wonder if it's, I mean, the rule changes for sure people were like, oh, this is going closer to the American version. I don't like this and I want to keep the CFL the same as it, you know, has been. But I also wonder if it was the way that he announced the rules and it turned out that you know was a very close group of people

that decided on this and not enough people were asked about it how much of the latter do you think it was definitely I think that's a major part of this so especially the fact that you know it was how do I see this kept quiet

and then it was just this rampant speculation and a lot of hardcore CFL fans we're thinking, massive changes. Are we going to four downs? But that was the huge talking point amongst the fans for those 24 hours or so

when the league said they were going to make a major announcement. And then I asked him at Hotel X on that day and said, can you guarantee that the CFL will not go to three downs under your watch? And he wasn't going to guarantee it. And then I asked him again at the state of the league. And he said, in present tense, I am guaranteeing we are a three-down league.

So fans are really diving down into his word And then I just don't think, as you alluded to, you know, the messaging has been great with how the rules were delivered. For example, fellas, there was essentially three months of data that the CFL was trumpeting to make these rule changes. When they have partners like Pro Football Focus, who has data on the CFL going back to 2022. And then they come out and say that, you know, the CFL actually throws to the middle of the end zone more than the NFL. Then you have Nathan Rourke who comes out and calls them garbage. Michael Shea does not like them. and Johnson was questioned about those two specifically in his state of the league address

but yet declined to say any names as to who the people were who were involved in this process but he will say that there's over 300 years combined experience in professional football but if the names are so recognizable and respected in Canadian football why are you not saying them to me I understand why because if he said those names people would be like who are these people, with all due respect to them, it's mainly people that were in the front office. And I'm not saying that they shouldn't be respected, but when you're selling this to fans,

I think what you could have done better if you're Stuart Johnston was had the proponents of the rule changes there at the podium with you. Michael Pinball Clemens, perhaps, if he's behind them, have him standing there with you, have some of the game's key stars there who are backing these rules. We're speaking to Justin Dung from Three Down Nation and Sportsnet, CFL reporter here on the Halford and Breff Show

on SportsNet 650. Justin, explain to me the football operations cap why both Grey Cup head coaches emphatically wanted it axed and what Stuart Johnson had to say about it. Well, Stuart Johnston didn't want to go into detail about that either. So, you know, at the moment in layman's terms, fellas, there's only so many coaches and football operations people that you can hire in the CFL.

Like they literally limit it to a number. And then there's a cap on that in terms of how much you can pay people. So the operations cap was originally set just below 2.6 million, though it was reduced during the COVID pandemic. And from what I'm told, it's only come up 2% per year, which is behind the rate of inflation, let's say, in our country overall. So people in the league believe that because you can only hire 11 coaches and then 14 other football operations people under this cap that it limits the development of young and potentially Canadian coaches but young coaches because let's say for coaches for example there's only 11 and then by the time you say okay let's say your average head coach is making

$400,000 general manager perhaps is around there maybe a little bit higher okay so you trim like let's say easy math okay a million dollars off the cap you have 1.6 million with a 2% rise, but 1.6 million when it was implemented to spread around to 23 other people. It just doesn't math. You know what I mean? If you want the product to be better on the field, and I don't think that coaching is necessarily an issue and the players have been better than they've ever been in the CFL. But if you really want the product to be better and you want to be developing more coaches and more creativity and Steve Johnston wants teams to be going for it more on third down, why would you limit the amount of coaches that your teams can have?

Like, if you're Saskatchewan or Winnipeg who are making money year over a year for the most part, why would you want to limit that? Because it could perhaps be developing coaches for other teams. So that's why Corey Mason, Jason Moss, Corey Mason more emphatically said, get rid of it. Yeah. Well, also, I mean, these coaching staffs are now going to be tasked with trying to teach players like brand new rules and the way that the game has played. You would almost assume they need more coaches than ever and more high-end coaches getting paid.

because they've got a lot more to do now. I mean, I'm half joking, but I'm also half serious here. Like, there's more to do than ever now that you've got to fundamentally altering the game. You're right. And let's look at a situation like what played out in Ottawa. I'm not saying this is a bad look on the Red Blacks franchise, but you have Ryan Dinwiddie going there as the head coach, the offensive coordinator and general manager. Now, that's not all because of the coach's cap. I'm sure that's what Ryan Dinwiddie would like to do.

He's probably going to want to call his plays. for the rest of his career on offense while he's a coach in the CFL, but you have coaches taking on these dual roles. So then you could say, okay, from the CFLPA's perspective, you know, are we getting the best coaching possible? Like, I think it can be better. And you have coaches at the bottom end here, not even making enough salary to live on guys.

So if you're calling yourself a professional football league, but Stuart Johnston wants this league to be among the top in North America, then you need to be able to pay your coaches requisite. it to the time and effort they're putting in to produce a high-level product on the field. Expansion, anything of note there? I would say what sticks out to me on expansion are three things. First of all, I ask Stuart Johnston directly. With these rule changes that are going to be implemented in 2026 and the major ones

to the field in 2027 is a CFL looking at U.S. expansion. He essentially said, no, that's not the case. but with Stuart Johnson fellows, I think at this point, we need to see if his words match up with his actions. He was asked directly about Halifax and seemed like he spoke in generalities, but then when there was a question about Quebec City, he talked about how great the football fan base there is at LaValle.

And have either of you guys ever been to a game at Telestadium? No, but I know what the atmosphere is like with Quebec University football. And it's, I wonder, I've wondered if the CFL is going to try and take advantage of it. It's unbelievable. And if you start thinking about it more and more, especially from my perspective, the infrastructure is there, even though Jacques Tonguey, who's the president of the Rouge Aor, said a couple of years ago, he doesn't feel like it is. The stadium there holds just over 12,000 in terms of seating. And you can fit up to another 8,000 plus to get over 20,000 in terms of standing room. And there's also, you know, I'm not an engineer, but the ability to

add seating there. Like in both end zones, you could close it up along the one side where I believe LaValle is usually on. You could build those stands up. So to me, it's easy to see how you could get there in Quebec City. If you get Jocque's Tonguey on board, you need him to be on board. And then the other part of it, too, is as much as Tongue doesn't want this to mess with what he's got going with the LaValle Rouge Aor.

The Ruchero only played four regular season home games, and usually they do. do host at least one playoff game and perhaps a national semi-final or the Vanya Cup, I think that's doable in that market. There were fans, Rugeot fans, at Vanya Cups where LaValle

isn't even playing in, tailgating before the sun is up. Like, it just seems ready, made for it. So I think if Stuart Johnston goes about it the right way, because I was told Randy Ambrose tried to approach expansion,

like a bowl in the China shop, and like the CFL, you know, should be given this otherworldly treatment. If you flip it around and you go into Halifax and you'll learn the Halifax way, same thing in Quebec City, I think it could be done. But let's see if Stuart Johnson can actually even start that process. I'm really curious about the TV rights deal that is set to expire,

I guess after next season. You know, my company, Rogers, we got the Blue Jays. And there's quite a lot of interest in the Blue Jays. I used to work for the other company Bell and then it seemed like they were less interested in sports and they closed my sports radio station which is why I'm at a Rogers sports radio station now so I wonder about this next deal

what are you hearing about it because you know I think there's reason to wonder if Rogers is going to be in that bidding probably not and then with Bell who knows so I'll give you just my honest thoughts first and then some informed speculation you know you guys probably aren't allowed to say it but we know Ed Rogers loves his monopolies so you know talking with some people I'm thinking like that family has so much money why would they not want to own a high level sports property in this country in terms of

television yeah you look at the average TV rating ratings and the CFL beats out the Toronto Raptors unless the Raptors are trying to win an NBA title and going deep in the playoffs. The CFL beats out regional NHL teams in our country as much as people don't want to hear about it. So, you know, really other than the NFL in our country in terms of ratings in hockey night in Canada,

the CFL is right there. And yes, when the Blue Jays are good, they're above the Canadian football. There is no doubt about that. So I don't want to forget something in this conversation. You guys feel free to fill in the blank. So I look at that and think, you know, make a lot of sense, but I haven't really heard any real substance from a Rogers perspective.

It does seem like because of Stuart Johnston's ties to TSN being the former president over there, that he's confident that TSN is going to be involved in the future of this league and continuing to be its broadcaster. That said, there are people behind the scenes that will tell you that the league wants to have a deal with a streaming service to be able to create more visibility and more accessibility for its broadcast in the league. So we'll see how this plays out,

but it does seem like it's headed towards either TSN continuing to be the exclusive broadcaster, the three-letter, perhaps I should say, well, I'm on your station, or a scenario where the three-letter has three games a week and perhaps a streaming service has a game of the week, sort of like Amazon Monday Night Hockey.

Yeah. Well, they better not do the MLS version because, like, that has not been good for the white caps in this city. You know, having your games on TSN, I don't mind saying it. TSN or Sportsnet, like, you know, like, it's, you know, it has to be one of those. The MLS deal hasn't been good for any of the MLS clubs. The white caps aren't alone and complaining about the lack of exposure that it's given them. It's been a problem. So anyway, Justin, we're way up against it for time.

Thank you very much for taking the time to do this today. really appreciate it. Great Great Cup Recap and everything else that's going on with the league. Enjoy some time off during the off season. We'll catch up again soon. Your best fellas, thanks for having me on. Yeah, thanks for coming on. We appreciate it. That's Justin Dunk from Three Down Nation and Sportsnet. CFL reporter here on the

Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. So a very intriguing CFL season has now come to a close and a CFL season that will always be marked for what happened off the field with regards to the massive rule changes as opposed to what happened on it. Although I'm still frustrated the Lions didn't find their way into that Grey Cup.

Sure, it would have been nice to have the Lions in that Grey Cup. I'll tell you that. With Davis Alexander hobbling around, throwing three picks in the Grey Cup, I think it could have been... It would have won. It would have won. I think whatever team came out of the West at that point probably would have won. And obviously, the Saskatchewan Rough Riders did. So a tip of the cap to Saskatchewan winning their first Grey Cup since 2013.

A lot of it, really interesting off-field business stuff. I do kind of feel like the league is it a very interesting. like sort of like flex point where it can go in a variety of directions but it's a new commissioner there's new leadership there's bold new rule changes and there has been a consistent and loud opposition to those rule changes that doesn't seem like it's getting quieter that TV deal aspect is a big one too is massive too um so we'll have to wait and see on that um sat's going to join us next apparently there's a new jingle that the dog have put together so stick around for that we'll talk about the connects and what they're

going to do tonight in Florida will Kevin Lankin and get another start or will they turn to Yuri Patera we'll talk about all the things that we have been talking about one thing I want to ask sat and I was texting about this yesterday Jim Rutherford said in that Q&A he said there was some sort of miscommunication with the negotiations with Pew Souter That's right. What was that all about? I don't know. There was so much from that interview.

Oh, you did want to sign here. Whoops. Oh, my God. Oops. I thought you said you didn't. I'm sorry. So I think Sat might have a bit of an explanation on the other side of the Halford and Brough show on Sportsnet 650.