Halford & Brough in the Morning - The Whitecaps Were Embarrassed In Mexico

Episode Date: June 2, 2025

In hour two, Mike & Jason chat with The Athletic NHL's James Mirtle (2:26) about whether or not the NHL has a "sunbelt problem", and if Canadian teams have a hard time attracting players due to the added pressure, plus they talk a disappointing Concacaf Champions Cup final loss for the Whitecaps, as soccer analyst Ben Steiner (27:06) joins the show live from Mexico.  This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

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I'm good. I'm better. We got a Howard the Duck reference. I love it. Only certain sports talk radio shows will have a Howard the Duck reference at 7.04 in the morning. This is one of them. Myrtle, I know you've written about this for the athletic. Does the NHL have a sunbelt quote unquote problem? Yeah, I heard you guys were talking about this on Friday too. There's a lot of material here to work with. The problem that they have is that the TV ratings are in a really tough spot.

Um, they've been okay in Canada, just with, you know, Canadian teams, obviously being pretty prevalent in the playoffs, but, um, in the U S the ratings are well down because Carolina, Florida is not, uh, and even Dallas, not very big TV markets. So that was kind of part of the impetus for me to write the story was, is there something that Leafs can do about this? How big of a problem is it? And I think kind of the answer is there's not really anything they can do about it. To me it feels like it's kind of cyclical.

The Sunbelt teams were brutal for most of their existence and it's really only been the last what, like seven or eight years where they've really come on and it's become such a storyline. And, you know, it's funny that sometimes you do a column and no one reads it and no one cares. And sometimes you do one and it's like rocket fuel and it just catches, you know, and that one was like, it's got like 800 comments on it. And I'm getting called all kinds of names by people that only read the headline on the story.

And, but at the end of the day, you know, in the column, I, I, I conclude that it's, it's, it's a good thing for the NHL, you know, like most of the markets are healthy right now. We're not talking about recalicating anyone. Um, you go to places like Vegas and Carolina and Dallas and their revenues are through the roof and they're, you know, I think the sun belt's been held is healthier than it's ever been. And part of that obviously is on I success and, you know, and I think part of their success, I think has to be kind of like a gauntlet being

thrown down to the more traditional markets saying, Hey, it's time to step up your game and compete with us. Cause the Leafs still have more money and revenues to compete with teams like Florida and Tampa Bay. I know there's a hard cap, but there's other ways to spend your money. Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah. I mean, if you look at, you know, the average revenues for Canadian teams are significantly higher than the average Sunbelt team. Average revenues for original six teams are even higher than that. So yeah, I mean, if you're in, you know, the Rangers or the Canadians or,

you know, Boston, these teams have advantages. And historically, they've always held those advantages over the Sunbelt teams and it's shown up on the ice. It's just the last, like I said, seven or eight years, you know, and everyone's going to talk about like the tax free state and all that kind of stuff. And that's certainly part of it. But another thing that's happened is that the Sunbelt markets historically, like in the 90s when they were expansion teams, didn't have very good ownership, didn't have very good management. It was kind of a disaster in places like Atlanta and obviously Phoenix was brutal. But they've got that figured out now and you look at some of the newer owners, I did an owner's

ranking earlier this year and it was all Sunbelt owners at the top of the ranking. You know, it was Florida, Vegas, Tampa, Dallas, and you know, the fans are really happy and the owners have done a great job, hired good people and that's another big part of why they're winning. It just seems like it's gone all the way to people being like, it's bad to play for a Canadian team now because of all the attention that you get. And maybe the fact that, um, you're not down

in a warm climate, you're in Canada. And it seems like, I don't know if this is actually true, but it's now gone from like, oh, that'd be cool to play in Canada too. You don't want to do that. I think it depends on the player. Like there definitely are some players that don't want to play in Canada. And, you know, I heard from some agents and they

said, you know what, like I get like the no trade clauses and there are some guys that are just like put all the Canadian teams on their right away. So, and I think it's the biggest challenge for Winnipeg, Calgary, you know, probably to a lesser extent Edmonton because they've got the McDavid dry saddle pole there. Ottawa, I think has a tough time.

Um, so it takes a certain kind of player. And I think the other thing too, working against the Canadian markets is that the league is becoming more American over time. Yep. You know, I think it's, I think it's like a third of the players now in the league are American and those American players are most likely to not

want to come to Canada. So I mean, you guys would, Toronto still can draw free agents pretty well. I don't know how you guys feel about in, in Vancouver. I feel like Vancouver is a city is still a pretty good draw, but they're probably never going to be the very top destinations for players. But you know, like Chris Tanev chose Toronto over Dallas last year in free agency.

The Leafs were able to sign Anthony Stolarz, who was probably the best goalie available in free agency. They got Ekman Larsen on a nice contract. You know, the Leafs are still able to pull in free agents, but part of that is that there's a lot of guys that are from here still. So I don't know how you guys feel about free agency in Vancouver, but I know they talk about it a lot in Calgary, Winnipeg, et cetera. Yeah. Free agency in Vancouver. I don't think we think of Vancouver like it's Winnipeg or even Calgary, but the team has to be good in order for people to sign with Vancouver. I mean, I'm going all the way back to, although he was kind of a BC guy, like Dan Hamhus,

they were able to attract Dan Hamhus when lots of other teams took big runs for him. But part of that might've been, he's from Sik in BC. And, but also the Canucks were a really good team and you're signing up to maybe win a Stanley Cup, which brings me to my next question. If the Edmonton Oilers get it done, they break the Canadian drought and we see that number one, it can be done by a Canadian team. And number two, maybe what the celebration is going to be like in

Edmonton. Do you think there might be some players that go, you know what, actually I do want to risk going to Canada and maybe I pay more taxes and maybe I have to deal with more nonsense from the media or social media because that parade in Edmonton versus whatever the parade they had was in Florida. I want to be a part of that. Yeah.

And that's always the discussion here too, when players sign here. And I mean, it was talked about a lot when the Leafs were eliminated because the Panthers were kind of trolling the market a little bit and saying, oh, the pressure got to them and the media and all this kind of stuff. And look how the fans act when you lose here and who would want that.

And, but, you know, Max Petruetti was like, you know, I, I want that. Like I want to play in a place like this. You know, I've played all over the league and like, I love being where there's pressure and there's been a lot of discussion about, so again, like, I think it depends on your makeup as, as a person and a player. And I think it just, it's an individual choice. And my only concern would be you combine like the warm weather thing with the tax free state with more and more players coming from the U S it could get to a point where it just

gets really difficult for the Calgary's and Winnipeg's and that to compete. And you know, but, but I do think that part of it is that these teams just have not been run very well in Canada and have not been competitive enough. And, you know, I looked at it since the last Canadian team won a cup in 93, all the Canadian teams have been bad. Like, I think the best one regular season record wise is, I think it's actually Toronto and it's like the 13th or 14th best team. So, you know, they need to be more competitive, as you said, to draw players in. And I think a lot of that has to come back to ownership and management and just

finding ways to use the advantages they do have better than they have. What is the number one sin of Canadian owners? I think it's probably not hiring the right people to run the team. I think that's what it comes down to. You know, one of the, I'm actually working on a story about Canadian teams and the drought for tomorrow and I've been looking at it and the list

of bad GMs, bad management for the Canadian angel teams is hugely long. And as you guys in Vancouver know, when you have someone like that in place for six, seven, eight years, it can set the franchise back so long and it's so hard to come out of that. And it's happened in, I think it's happened in every Canadian market except for Winnipeg really. So, and that just kills you. Yeah, there's a lot that goes into that and obviously here in Vancouver,

we know exactly what you're speaking about, but the one that we've talked about a fair bit is the idea that some of these teams, especially the ones north of the border, all the Canadian teams, they either ones north of the board or all the Canadian teams, they either don't have the patience or the stomach or the wherewithal to be bad to get good like so many of the other teams have. Now, I mean, I always look at Florida and like Florida was awful for a long, long time,

but it didn't matter because, you know, like I said, no one really paid attention to that much. Now that they're good, it's great, but they went through a long, long time of suffering. The Canadian, the Montreal Canadians, we seem like they're good, it's great, but they went through a long, long time of suffering. The Montreal Canadiens, to me, seem like they're gonna be the ultimate litmus test on this because, I mean, they were real bad for two or three years and now you got the first sign of, okay, things are starting to turn, but they had a real, I don't want to call it methodical because it's only been about two or three years, but it was slow, it was

deliberate, and they did the whole, we're gonna bottom out, we're gonna draft, we're gonna develop, and then we're gonna get good. We saw the first chapter of that right now. So I think they're gonna be the really interesting one to watch moving forward to see, I guess for the rest of Canada, can the other teams do this? Well, I mean, Edmonton's been through a long,

painful rebuild. Toronto, Toronto's wasn't as long and painful. I mean, the painful part for Toronto has been when they started to make the playoffs. Yeah. You know, we, we like, we've, we've seen rebuilds, we've seen tear downs in Canada. You know, they've tried to follow that model and

Edmonton's, Edmonton's such a weird one because like they failed for so many times and so long and they had the bad management and they made the mistakes and yet they still might pull it off and it just shows, you know, and a part, a part of it's obviously the McDavid, dry sidle combination is just like such a ace in the hole that most franchises don't have. But they didn't, those players wanted to stay, like McDavid signed an eight year deal, dry sidle signed to stay again.

They both are on value contracts right now. So they obviously did something right. Uh, do you think Marner's gone, uh, from Toronto? And if so, how do the Leafs replace him? Some, some players with different DNA, according to Brad, you're living. Yeah. Yeah. There's been a lot of discussion about what

DNA means and how, you know, like technical, technical debates over what that actually means and what does DNA stand for on Toronto Sports Talk Radio that I haven't heard before. Yeah, he's going to be gone. I mean, the only way, I would say it's maybe like one or 2% chance that he comes back. And it would be kind of if he goes to July 1 and what's out there is not to his liking and then maybe it's a circle back kind of situation. But you know, he really during the

playoffs and especially after they were eliminated looked like a player that didn't want to be here anymore and it obviously puts the Leafs in a tough position because you can't really replace him in free agency. He's the only he's one of one in free agency this year. There's no other you know if Ranton then would have made it to free agency I'm sure the Leafs would have been at the front of the line trying to get him, but there's no player like that. So, but I think that if you want to look at a class half full, the benefit for the Leafs is they can try and spread out that $13 million

dollars throughout their lineup. And part of what crushed them against Florida in the second round is the Panthers were getting such great production from three lines and Toronto really only had two lines and the Leafs had five forwards that played almost every playoff game that didn't score a goal in the entire playoffs.

And that's a really hard way to win. And everyone's talking about the stars in Toronto and not delivering. And I think that that's fair, but another big part of the story is that they just didn't get anything from their depth players and that's going to change. So the Leafs have to look at this,

like we're going to build a much stronger center depth and third line. But the tough thing is you look at free agency, and I don't know how they're going to do that. So it's a huge challenge in front of Bradtree living right now. We're speaking to James Myrtle from the athletic senior NHL writer here on the Halford and Bref show on Sportsnet 650. There was a lot to unpack from the year end media availability. There's a lot involving Mitch Marner's future, Brad Tree living with the media, so too did Keith Pelley. Now, we kind of parsed

through that, but the one thing that both Bruff and I found interesting about what Pelley had to say was about the relationship that the team has with the market and with the fans and the accessibility, both with fans and media. If you want to talk about DNA change, it sounds like there's going to be changes on this front as well on this horizon. The quote was, there is access that we can give

that is beneficial to the players. It allows them better to relate to the fans. What did you make of what Keith Peli had to say about that dynamic with the organization? I mean, I think he's kind of talking about kind of like the Amazon all access kind of stuff, like behind the scenes, sort of, I don't know, creating some sort of, something like that is kind of where my mind goes.

If he's actually talking about the broader media landscape and us having better access, I mean, I'll believe it when I see it because the trend here, I've been around the team since 2007. The trend here has been the access has been getting worse basically every year since I've been around. So, but if that changes, then I think that would be great. You know, there is kind of an adversarial relationship between the team and the players and then on the other sides of the media and the fans.

I don't think it's healthy because while there are some people in the media who can be toxic and aren't trying to be fair and there can be fan stuff that goes way over the top, especially in social media, there's a lot more good than there is bad. I think that that should be the message that the team is giving the players. And, you know, rather than them being kind of afraid to engage with it because, you know, there's a lot of good things that can come out of that, that passion that there is for the team here.

I also took it that there was, there felt like there was an underlying sentiment that they needed to repair some kind of relationship in the market with the fans. Like the team almost became I think Mitch Marner getting boot off the ice might have had to get something to do with that There's a level of unlike ability there. That's kind I mean, it's odd like everyone gets angry at their team don't get me wrong

But again between how long the core four was together and how many failures they had it just felt like there might have needed to be Some bridge building between the organization the the fan base, because this group became unlikable. Is that fair? Is that off? Yeah. I mean, I have a lot of friends who are least fans in the city, who just don't like the team anymore and don't pay attention to them. And it's, it's a failing on Brendan Shanahan and management here. We get back to Canadian teams being poorly managed that they didn't read the room properly. Like you can't name another team in pro sports

that ran back a team built around four players who failed nine years in a row. No one would do that. No one would do that. Like it's just, so it's become this huge burden on the players and almost unfair. And it's gotten to the point where the Leafs all season were still trying to bring Mitch Warner back and sign him.

And he said, no, you know, like the, can you imagine if he had signed an eight year, $13 million season deal in, in January and then they lose like that. And then he locked in and has to stay, you know, so it took the player to finally say, this is just not a healthy situation and I don't want to be here anymore. And they, they needed to make changes two or three years ago. And the weird thing is I feel like almost everyone could see it except them. And it's put them, put them in this really kind of toxic situation. And I, in that game seven, you know, in the third period,

there was something like two or 3000 fans left in the building with 10 minutes left in the game. Fans were going down to the glass and throwing beers and jerseys on the ice. There were, there were fans yelling at the players on the ice and giving them the middle finger and ushers trying to get them, uh, you know, like it was, it was really, really crazy. And Keith Talley sitting there in the lower bowl, watching this unfold and ownership was there, Ed Rogers was there.

They're all watching this. And how could you not come away with the conclusion that something has gone really sour here? So it'll be interesting to see what they do to try and change that. James, this was great, buddy. Thanks for taking the time to do it. We appreciate it. Let's do this again as we get closer to July one and free agency and all that stuff.

Okay. Sounds good. Thanks guys. Thanks buddy. James Myrtle from the athletic senior NHL writer here on the Halford and Bref show on sports net 650. That is one of the great, from our perspective, one of the great takeaways from the entire Toronto experience is how it turned into a wildly unlikable group of guys.

Cause we were working in media, we were working in media forever, but when they first constructed that group couldn't have been more loved there was optimism and enthusiasm about the future and Austin Matthews was gonna be I mean there was talk that he was gonna be the greatest mate belief ever when they got Marner it was not not only yeah right but not only was Mitch Marner this immensely talented, he was from Toronto and played for London. He was going to be the next great Ontario boy to get the job done for the Leafs. And now like he was talking, Myrtle was talking about the game seven scene.

That's ugly. That's super ugly. That's ugly. And it's does it speak ill of a fan base? Absolutely. Absolutely. And you can't justify all of that behavior. You can justify frustration and angst and reacting poorly in the moment. But that's-

You can justify booing. That's just sending a message. That's sending a message that we will want change and if you boo a player like Mitch Marner, very unlikely he's coming back. But let's be clear. That reaction wasn't just about losing a game seven on home ice to Florida. It was the, I thought in part, it was the culmination of like James said, nine years.

Yeah. And which culminated in two absolute stinkers at home game five, game six, they go to Florida, trick the fan base again, and then they have another stinker in game seven. And that's the punctuation mark on their legacy, which is crazy, right? It is. You know how much you have to do to alter that now?

If you're one of the remaining guys, let's say it falls on the shoulders of Matthews and Nylander, they've got a huge task ahead of them because they're the ones that are still around. But if Marner leaves, that chapter is written. It's over. Yeah. He goes down in Maple Leaf's history as being part of one of the biggest group of underachievers that the organization's ever known.

Despite the fact that the last season he scored 100 plus points and he was nominated for a selkie while in Toronto as well. I like this unsigned text that came in playoffs nine years in a row sounds pretty good to me I know we were joking around last week on the show it's like I'd love to be failing to get over the hump in the playoffs should be amazing I don't know what every year you'd be in the playoffs failing but you you'd still be there. I'd love to see what it looked like because they never got anywhere in the postseason. We're not talking about the Carolina hurricanes, going to a bunch of Eastern conference finals,

racking up to playoff round wins in a spring time. That's, I mean, they'll leave you with some good vibes winning two series in a postseason. I know fans are frustrated cause they can't get it over the line. But four or five years in, you know, you'd be like, OK, guys. Well, these feelings are pretty. Of course, let's move past this round, please. Yeah, this is getting frustrating. Expectations change. Yeah.

Look how much expectation change with one playoff appearance. Yeah. It was it would be. And James brought up a great point. It's like what other professional sports franchise would allow a group to be together for nine years? It's pro sports. Like things change pretty rapidly. Head coaches get fired after a four week bad stretch.

Will it ever be looked back at that the Leafs had an incredibly tough division and tough matchups or will people be like, yeah, they lost to Columbus in the plan and they lost to Montreal when they had them up three to one. You know, they think it's the latter. I think it's the latter. Yeah. I were when we had Sam McKee on the show a couple of weeks ago,

and he started running through. He's like, have they lost some big games in big moments to big, tough opponents? Yes. But they also lost to Eunice Corpusalo and Philip Deneau and Pierre Lutubois, like they got bodied by a bunch of different people. You know, it wasn't just the Florida Panthers. Yeah. There was a bunch of different, it all.

Thank God, they got beaten by a lot of very good teams, whether it was Tampa Bay or Boston. Like, it's kind of like the Jays being stuck in the AAL East. It really was for that. And the way that the playoffs are set up too. Like a pragmatic fan would look at it and say like, yeah, they ran up against a gauntlet of really good teams. But sometimes you have to step outside of that pragmatism?

Yes. Okay. Pragmaticism. Pragmaticism. Pragmatic Okay. Pragmaticism. Pragmaticism. Pragmaticism. And just be like, hey, no. It's the same four players who are, for the most part,

failing to get you over the hump. Don't be scared to switch this up. Now, to the Leafs' credit, they tried. And Marner said, nope, I'm not going anywhere. but they tried way too late. Yeah. Okay. Uh, coming up, we're going to go to Mexico city, the Mexico city meltdown for the Vancouver white caps yesterday, a five nil destruction at the hands of Cruz Azul in last night's CONCACAF champions cup final. Uh, Ben Steiner from sports illustrated is going to join

the program. We'll try and make sense of what happened yesterday. Get Ben's sense of what the scene was like. And I imagine it was pretty dramatic pre and post match for the nearly 1000 white cap supporters that went down to Mexico City for the match. What did Jesper Sorensen have to say in the aftermath? What did the players say? And what comes next for the Vancouver Whitecaps after getting embarrassed on such a big stage?

Ben Steiner from Sports Illustrated is going to join us next on the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. Music 734 on a Monday. Happy Monday, everybody. Halford Brough, Sportsnet 650. Halford Brough of the morning is brought to you by Sands and Associates. Learn how a consumer proposal reduces your debt by up to 80% with no more interest. Visit them online at sans-trustee.com. We are in hour two of the program. Ben Steiner from Sports Illustrated is gonna join us in just a moment here live from Mexico City. The scene of a tough one for the Vancouver Whitecaps last night, five nil loss, five nil loss to Cruz Azul

in the Cunca Calf Cup Champions final yesterday in Mexico city. Our two of this program is brought to you by Jason Hominock at Jason.Mortgage. If you love paying too much for your mortgage, then don't let Jason shop around to find the perfect mortgage for you. Visit them online at Jason.Mortgage. To the phone lines we go, the Power West Industries hotline. Ben Steiner joins us now in the Halfford and Brough show on Sportsnet 650. Good morning, Ben. How are you?

Buenos dias boys. It could have been a better morning for white caps fans in Mexico city. About a thousand made their way down and it was great to see certainly so many from Vancouver and spent a bit of time with them. But that match has a night to forget for, for the white caps. I was going to say this morning might be fine, but last night was certainly not. It's been about 12 hours, 14 hours, whatever, since the match took place.

Have you had time to digest and fully understand what you saw and what happened to the white caps last night? I think I had time to fully understand what was happening at halftime when it was four nil. Uh, it was pretty well dire at that point and basically from kickoff and I think anybody that watched the match on TV as well saw that the Whitecaps just, they weren't ready for it. Ranko Veselinovic, the captain of the team with Ryan Goldout, said as much that they just weren't ready mentally for what this was going to take and Cruz Azul was right there to press them. Everything that had worked for the Whitecaps all year to this point, the possession-based style,

the high press, Brian White, all of it, it just didn't work. Cruz Azul was ready for anything the Whitecaps had, and sloppy play ended up costing the Caps the first couple goals, and Cruz Azul just kept piling on. Okay, I'll ask a couple critical ones here because I'm trying to make sense of how

a team that's played this well throughout the season can be that poor. And for those that are listening that might not understand the degree of poor, there was not even a single shot attempt by the Whitecaps in that match, which has never happened in a CONCACAF Cup match, let alone the final before it was just so unbelievably one sided. Ben, is it fair to suggest that going down to Mexico and they went down on Friday and there was a large traveling contingent

and everything that maybe the white caps between the festive atmosphere and the celebration of going to this might've underestimated how difficult a job this was going to be on the pitch. I think there's an element of that, but there's also an element of Cruzezul is much better Ligue 1x team than the ones that they beat on the way Monterey and Pumas.

You have the challenges of the altitude, you have the experience of this Cruzezul side that had a guy like Matos Bogus who now has seven goals in 11 games against the Whitecaps. He was the guy that eliminated the caps from the MLS cup playoffs last year in game three against LAFC. He's scored last night. There were just so many elements that were going against the caps in this one. The more you kind of look back at it. And then also, you know, white caps team that hadn't played in front of some of

these really hostile environments before it was only 33,000, but that place was allowed, it was rocking it's a UNESCO world heritage site. really hostile environments before. It was only 33,000, but that place was loud. It was rocking. It's a UNESCO World Heritage site. They can't pack the whole thing because it might fall down if they pack the whole thing. But an outstanding atmosphere. And 33,000 felt like 60,000.

And I think the White House were just a little bit worried about that. The one soccer broadcast was pretty critical of, when you got down to the nitty gritty and they were talking about being naive tactically and not being able to make adjustments in match. Is this the first time all season where Jesper Sorensen comes under the microscope for his inability to work magic with the side? I think there's a real commitment to what has worked the last three months for the

Whitecaps. They're first in the Western Conference with two games in hand on most teams. They made their way past very difficult opponents. They had one of the toughest routes to the CONCACAF Champions Cup final, a much tougher route than Cruz Azul, might I add, that I think he was committed to the way that it has worked and they had planned for this game as well. He had an idea of what was going to work against his team. And at the end of the day, it was just a poor performance from the players on the

pitch. I think you look at Andres Kubas, he's usually Mr. reliable in midfield for the Whitecaps. And that was one of his worst games. They were tentative playing out of the back. They made two turnovers. What was working all season down the right side with Vite, and Ali Ahmed just wasn't clicking. And then there's also the altitude issue where you

have a little bit more weight on a pass that you're used to is going a foot farther and you're not getting there. So I know this isn't my brand to look on the bright side, but I'm still going to look back on this run very fondly. You know, I was able to be in attendance at BC place when the Whitecaps beat Lionel Messi's

team in front of a sold out crowd at BC place. Then they go to Miami and they win that game as well. For me, yeah, it was a disappointing final. They were outclassed. They didn't look prepared. They lost to a much better team They were outclassed. They didn't look prepared. They lost to a much better team by an embarrassing score line.

Inter Milan lost five nil to PSG over the weekend. And that was embarrassing for them as well. But overall, this has been a great run for the Whitecaps. Agree or disagree? Completely agree. I think when you look at the opportunity that they had for the fans and the team with that Miami series, the way they played in that Miami series and the way they've played in MLS throughout it, usually when you have a good run in the champions league or champions cup, it comes with the expensive league play and that hasn't been the case for the White Caps.

This is going to continue to be a very exciting team going forward. And I asked several of the players last night about the momentum that they've built in the fan base and they've been very positive for the Whitecaps. This is going to continue to be a very exciting team going forward. And I asked several of the players last night about the momentum that they've built in the fan base and they're excited to continue playing for that because this is an exciting Whitecaps team that I think has a lot of positivity still surrounding them, even though the final didn't go the way that they wanted. I can't remember the last time we've seen this much excitement around the Whitecaps.

It might be 1979, but that was way before my time. I am curious about the post-match reactions because I didn't get a chance to see any of them I just kind of read the transcripts of it. Where was the level of devastation let's start with the players I saw Ranko Veselnich's walk-off interview and I mean he was the one that said as you alluded to we weren't ready to play I saw some other players were in tears leaving the pitch like where was the devastation level for the players first off before we get to Jesper Sorensen? Ranko was very composed after the match. Of course, he's the captain with Ryan Gould, not able to be playing these days. And he kind of fulfilled his captain's duties and addressed in the media for almost 15 minutes after the game. Brian White was understandably quite disheartened

and couldn't really muster many words about what had just happened. Players were in shock, I think, and there was not really any foresight into the lessons they've learned from this run or what they can kind of carry into the the next bit of the MLS season, just because, you know, you lose a game five nil in a game that you had been focusing on for so long. It was just a real element of Shadock. Jesper Sorensen was well thought out, talked about moving on as champions in life even though they weren't champions on the pitch and having that resilience to continue in MLS. But the players, they were stunned at what

had happened. So that leads me into my final question for you and that's about moving forward. I know Jesper said all the right things about you know this is a moment of adversity and we're gonna have to rebound from it. How do you see things playing out from here? Do you think that this group has the mentality to flush that result and get back to their winning ways or is this maybe the first crack or a fissure in the foundation for the white caps. Oh, we might have lost them. Be missing the gold cut. You're going to be missing games for the white caps.

Apologies if we cut out there. Yeah, but the Vancouver white caps are going to be missing some key players in June. So it could be tough to maintain their form. Once they have their strongest lineup back, I would think they probably get back to where they are. In the past, when teams have ended their Champions Cup runs, they've tended to improve in MLS play.

The Whitecaps don't have much room for improvement in MLS play. But I do think that this team can be legitimately considered an MLS Cup contender I just play in the season. It's not really going to be a break for those players that are going to go play for their countries. Doesn't Vita have to play against Brazil? Yeah, they're going to be missing nine regulars with guys getting called up to their senior teams. There's guys going under 23s and under 20s as well.

I think most of them are going to be relied upon pretty heavily, I would imagine. So yeah, I think it's going to be pretty busy times. I'm just wondering if there's going to be a chance or is there a need for the team to catch their breath a little bit? They don't have much of a chance. There might be a need, but they play Seattle next weekend without several key players. Um, so it's going to be a quick turnaround for

this team. It's unfortunate that they've had so much match congestion and maybe that played a role. Uh, I know there were a lot of discussions around whether to postpone or play that midweek game last week against Minnesota, which I think when you look back at it, they probably would have skipped, um, but it's going to be a tough next two weeks for the white caps, but this team is surprised with rotation in their squad so far this season.

So I wouldn't be shocked to see results continue to go their way, but it won't be as easy without, you know, those top nine players on the team. Do we have any idea when Ryan Gould might be back? There was initially hope that he would be for this game and replace that hole left by Burhalter. He's still not in full team training. Um, there's still not much of a update or let alone a timeline of when he would be back. So it's much worse than was initially thought when he went down. Well,

looked like a pretty innocuous injury. Ben, this was great, man. Thank you for taking the time to do this today. We really appreciate it. Travel safe back for Mexico city and we will do this as the MLS campaign continues this summer. Well, hopefully it's still a fun one. And the, uh, the passion for the whitecaps stays high in Vancouver. Yeah. Thanks Ben. Appreciate it. That's Ben Steiner, a soccer analyst from Sports Illustrated, live from Mexico here on the Halford and Brough show on Sportsnet 650. So if you're just joining us, you've missed a lot of

different conversations that we've had on this show. We talked about the whitecaps, we talked about Archer's Sealovs and the Abbots for Canucks and also just the Abbots for Canucks going up to nothing in their series, uh, against Texas. Uh, we talked about the NBA finals being set and where the NBA is at right now. Um, I do want to mention quickly a little bit more

of soccer talk because, talk because PSG finally getting it done in Europe and in a spectacular fashion, beating Inter 5-0 in the Champions League final, 5-0 in soccer games over the weekend. Popular score. But it wasn't the star studded, well it wasn't the superstar studded PSG that finally got it done. So I'm going to put you on the spot here. Okay. How did they finally do it without the likes of Messi and all the other superstars that have been through PSG? Yeah, it was almost like by removing the superstar element, they were able to showcase some of the lesser known players

and then showed off the all of the tactical ability and the strengths and characteristics of the team. They're lightning fast, crazy athleticism. Who's this do it as right? Do it. Yes, there's a perfect example, right? Is he's a guy that Was always sort of playing in the shadows of I mean take your pick. There's been so many countless things MSG MSG PSG for the longest time

Had kind of been like a brand exercise more than a football club. Yeah. If that makes sense to anyone. It was splashing incredible amounts of cash for the most highly publicized players. I mean, think of all the ones that have gone through there, right? Ibrahimović, Beckham, Messi, Mbappe. They have. Neymar. Right, they had Jordan brand kit that was like,

I mean, you see it everywhere, right? Kids wear. Right, and I mean they were like, because if you think about the origins of the Jordan brand, it of course is a basketball brand, and the iconic jump man on the soccer jersey. So it was a brand exercise in a large part, and it was kind of a club that,

God I'm gonna be way overstepping here, but whatever, it was kind of like a soulless club because it didn't have a ton of history Yeah, yeah, it didn't date back to the late 1800s yeah, you know it's like the workers got together and started this club You know it was more just like a bunch of rich Parisians right together and started this club in the 70s It doesn't have a huge history, which is part of the reason why they don't have. 1970. Yeah, they don't have this huge catalog

of great European victories and all this stuff. But they've sort of, in part because players have moved on and the experiment never really manifested itself like this. Now they've actually built what you would consider a proper football club, more depth, more positions, more talent, guys that buy into the system. Luis Enrique, a fantastic manager, unbelievable personal story there. He suffered like unbelievable personal tragedy a few years ago when his daughter

passed away from cancer. So there was like a lot of different elements that made them more of a compelling team that you root for as opposed to iterations prior. That was very much like, well, they just went out and spent a gazillion dollars to get messy or bring in all these other high-priced superstars. I want to talk a little bit also about how much they make soccer players play. And I know there might be some people listening that already think soccer players are soft and they're diving all over the place, but it struck me the other day when I read

that Manchester United was already playing games in Asia and they were getting booed off the pitch in Malaysia by their supporters. And I'm like, didn't they just finish the premier league season and didn't they just go to a final against Tottenham and they're already on an Asian tour? Like are they, did they bring all their top players for that? Like, what are, what are they thinking? Because now we've got this club world cup that's coming up in a couple of weeks. Yep.

Now there's no big international tournament this off season, but there's still World Cup qualifying going on. And when you think about what the whitecaps had to do over the last couple of weeks, Cruz Azul was sitting pretty at home. Just off for two weeks. But the whitecaps had to play MLS games.

They had the Canadian championship game and now a bunch of their players are going to have to scatter all over the world to represent their country's international break. Yeah, it's become, I don't want to say exploitative, but there's definitely an element of how much can we squeeze out of these clubs because these clubs brands, they're off season workers, like let's go expand the brand. Let's go to Asia. Yeah, let's go to Asia. Let's go to North America.

Let's participate in this club world cup, which is really just a bragging exercise for Real Madrid, Manchester City, Bayern Munich, Paris Saint-Germain, Inter, Porto, it's all the big monster clubs in Europe saying we're going to go over and under the guise of competitive match, we're going to play a New Zealand champion. There's been there's been conversations about playing Champions League matches in America, right? They they are.

But that's that's that's a reasonable conversation to have. But it just adds to. I don't think this club world cup is gonna be well supported. No, no, no. I'm, I'm talking about the context of an already condensed schedules. Like now we're gonna fly you across the Atlantic to play.

Right. In a champions league. I get it. It's the, it's the, it's big asks of big global brands. And it's gonna be fascinating to see, I think from a North American sporting perspective, you know, we're already starting to see teams embrace. I mean, look at the National Football League now. The National Football League is asking a lot of its players, adding games to the

regular season, having them travel to Brazil, Germany, like it will continue when there's until there's no more money left to squeeze. It's like, well, how do we keep making money? Well, the idea is globalize your brand. Well, how do we globalize our brand? Let's go play a game in London. Let's go play a game in Spain. Let's go play a game in Germany.

Now let's try Brazil. When do we have time to do that? Oh, in the off season, three days after your season ends. And then if you look at the NFL, it started with we'll play exhibition games abroad. Now it's we're gonna play regular season games abroad. Now it's we're gonna play multiple regular season games abroad.

Eventually, I do think the end game is are we gonna have an NFL team in Europe? Yeah. You know? And that'll be the next great frontier. I just wonder how many of those games too are empty calories. Like England's got a World Cup qualifying match coming up against Andorra. Mm-hmm. You know?

Yep. And you want Andorra to have a chance. Just a chance. Right? I mean, they're a country. They got every right to try and qualify for the World Cup. But if you're a club. That owns these players. And like, do you really want them playing in these games?

No, you want the the months of June and July and August used to be step away. Yeah. Yeah. Every second year, we'll have there be an international competition, either the euro for let's just take a European team. Maybe you either got Euros, you got World Cup, but outside of that, you know, the, the summer months are supposed to be a downtime to rest and recuperate.

That's pretty much gone. It's crazy that we spend so much time talking about recovery for athletes and how we're learning more and more about you need recovery. And there can some be some people that say, look, I go to work every day. And it's like, you're not a finely tuned athlete. Yeah.

That's what you think. I honestly, yeah, well, you are. You are. Your hacky sack is unparalleled. Unparalleled. But if you think of what the Whitecaps were just asked to do, I know not all their players played Wednesday

against Minnesota. But a couple other key guys came off the bench. Almost everyone outside of two or three guys played Wednesday. Okay. Yeah. So they did. And then you're gonna say, okay, you got Thursday, you can lay low.

Friday, we're hopping on a plane, we're going to Mexico City. And then you get there and it's like, is the air a little thin here? Why am I so tired? And then you have to play this huge game where you're playing Cruises Azul, which is apparently based on a lot of text we're getting,

been off for two weeks, and is already used to playing in Mexico City. The weather was weird. It was wet and humid. Plus you're playing, again, at elevation, and you've just played a few days ago against Minnesota, and we're all like, wow, they sure laid an egg there. It's definitely worth bringing up in the context of,

especially last night, but as a bigger picture, it does become incredibly physically taxing when the asks get more and more and more. And that's why I brought up the NFL one. Yeah. I mean, if you'd listen to anyone from the NFL's Players Association,

we're playing too many games. Yeah. Right, this is a physically taxing sport. It's no wonder a lot of the star players don't even play at all during the preseason. Well, cause the other part of it is like, not only is this, we've seen countless seasons tanked with injuries, but we've seen countless careers gone with non-guaranteed contracts and the

ability to cut a guy loose at a moment's notice. You do worry about your health in the NFL and the NFL turns around and like, we're going to play two extra games and this one's going to be in Zimbabwe. Get on a plane. It's's gonna be a while, right? And it's like then you get a bye week afterwards, but then you're right back to playing the rest of the regular season Okay, two things number one. I apologize for earlier. No one pointed this out except James Myrtle in a DM. I said that Dan Hamuse was from Sikkimus. I know you did she Weber

Was from Sikkimus or is from sick amuse? Dan hammes is from Smithers. Yep, it's Smithers up north sick amuse is around in both murders They both start with an ass. Yeah town and camloops. I guess myrtle's from camloops So yeah, he knows the geography. Come on the guy co-own the Prince George Cougars. Yeah Dan him damn him. Yeah Yeah. Boom. Dan Ham? Dan Ham, yeah.

So he's from the Caribbean. Up North. Yeah, Myrtle. Oh, good for him. If Myrtle was gonna own a team, it would be the Kamloops Blazers. Making that sick athletic money. Good for him.

Number two, we get to carry on our Archer Sealuffs, Thatcher Demko, what are the Canucks gonna do with their goaltending off season? Coming up with a guy that actually knows what he's talking about, as opposed to us, Kevin Woodley is gonna join us next on the Halford and Bruff Show on Sportsnet 650.