Halford & Brough in the Morning - There Could Be Big Changes For The BC Lions This Off-Season

Episode Date: November 4, 2024

In hour two, Mike & Jason talk Week 9 with Too Deep Zone NFL Insider Mike Tanier (3:19), plus the boys talk the end to the BC Lions season with 3 Down Nation's JC Abbott (29:19). This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

Snapback, Geno Smith hits his back foot, he has to leave the pocket, throws to the end zone, intercepted, intercepted and brought out, 10, 20, down the right sideline, cut it inside midfield, it's Cam Kitchens, all the way back with a flag down. 10-5. Touchdown, LA. Really start out by apologizing to my teammates, really, and to the city. You know, the three picks. We've got to make smarter decisions that way. We've got to finish drives. We've got to take care of the football. 7 o'clock on a Monday.

Happy Monday, everybody. You're listening to the Halford Improv Show on Sportsnet 650. I almost don't want to ask Mike about the Seahawks and what they did, and more specifically, didn't do yesterday against the Rams. Why not? I feel like it's not worth our time to dissect any further. I disagree. Well, we'll ask him.

You are listening to the Halford question. They've got a huge decision to make about what they're going to do. A quarterback. You're going to hear the name Samrescia. They've got a huge decision to make about what they're going to do. A quarterback. You're going to hear the name Sam Howell more and more from Seahawks fans. Might have a huge decision to head coach by the end of the year. Are you not kind of unimpressed? Oh, absolutely. With the coaching.

They look unprepared. With the coaching. They look unprepared. Tons of bad penalties. I don't know how much Mike McDonald's responsible for snapping the ball, but... Find a guy. Find a guy that can snap it. I bet you could find one.

That hasn't been impressive. It hasn't been impressive. But he's a young guy, and you can probably expect growing pains. But where's the defense? And this isn't just on him. It absolutely falls on the personnel. When's the last time that you've seen Witherspoon

make one of those big dramatic plays that we saw a lot during his rookie campaign? I thought the defense made some plays yesterday, but Wolin in overtime was a complete disaster. And, you know, I watched him against Buffalo and someone managed to screen grab. He was taunting after getting a stop on first down and then they threw right back at him on third

down. They're like, this is fine. We will go after Reekwell and no problem. Anyway, Mike Tanner is going to join us in just a sec here. Let's attend to some business. You are listening to the Halford & Brough show on Sportsnet 650. Halford & Brough of the Morning is brought to you by Vancouver Honda, Vancouver's premier destination for Honda customers. They have a friendly, knowledgeable staff that

can help with anything you're looking for. Sales, financing, service, or parts. We are in hour two of the program. This hour is brought to you by Jason Hominuk from Jason.Mortgage. If you love paying too much for your mortgage, then don't let Jason shop around to find the perfect mortgage for you. Just kidding. Let him do that.

Visit him online at Jason.Mortgage. We are coming to you live from the Kintec studio. Kintec, Canada's favorite orthotics provider, powered by thousands of five-star Google reviews. Soar feet, what are you waiting for? Kintec, I believe we just had an NFL coach firing. Can you confirm this, Lanny? Yeah, I just got the email coming through from Adam Schefter.

Saints have fired the head coach, Dennis Allen, according to ESPN. That's appropriate because on Twitter last night, is Dennis Allen fired yet was trending. He got off to a good start to the season. First two games went well. Remember when they were 2-0? Now they're 2-7, so it hasn't gone well. So we turn our attention now to our next guest,

Mike Tanier from the Too Deep Zone joins us now on the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. Good morning, Mike. It's not often that we get to break some news with you while on the phone, but Dennis Allen is out in New Orleans, which I guess shouldn't be a huge surprise when you lose seven games in a row after starting 2-0. Yeah, life comes at you fast when you're Dennis Allen,

a coach of the year candidate after week two, after they just destroyed the Cowboys, looked like a team that was on the rise. Now, like you said, fired after being swept by the Panthers this year. You know, it's hard to say what he specifically did wrong. If you look at the injuries for that team over the last month or so, it's been absolutely ridiculous. At the same time, I don't know what he's been bringing to the table

for the last two or three years, so I'm not particularly stunned by his firing. Well, I did notice yesterday on social media, it was lit aflame. It was Chris Alave's brother, because Alave got hurt in that game and got carted off. He was saying stuff about the organization. Michael Thomas, the former wide receiver, sounded off on Dennis Allen and the organization.

So I do wonder if this has to do with the fact that everything felt like it was caving in on the Saints and they decided that they just couldn't wait any longer and they just had to make this move because there was so much pressure coming from so many different angles and maybe that's the case but you know dennis allen does not tell derrick carr hey derrick carr throw a get your get your receiver like murdered ball he doesn't like put that into the playbook and you know car is the quarterback he was given by the administration, by the front office, by Mickey Lubin. So there's a lot there.

Allen kind of winds up being the hatchet guy, but it's not like we're talking about the loss of Sean McDermott or somebody. Okay, let's turn our attention now to the Seattle Seahawks, an incredibly disappointing and mistake-filled loss in overtime to the Rams yesterday. Four straight home losses. Lumenfield is not even a remotely tough place to play anymore. It is actually for the Seahawks.

Well, it is for the Seahawks. That's true. Very good point. Geno Smith owned it after the game with the three interceptions, including the pick six, 108- yard return on the pick six. Uh, I was trying to push back on the narrative by saying, I feel like there's more problems for this team than just the quarterback. Where do you sit on the Seahawks right now?

You know, and actually I look at it and say, what is going on in the red zone? What is happening in the red zone? Cause that was a red zone play. Other interception was a red zone play. The fourth down stop, obviously Because that was a red zone play. Other interception was a red zone play. The fourth down stop, obviously, in overtime was a red zone play. The previous week against the Bills, they're in that game until they start making mistakes in the red zone and not coming away with points. That's a real problem.

So I'm going to tell you right now, Sam Howell is not the solution to any problems. He's Geno Smith-White. That is who he is. He is Diet Geno, and he'll do the same things, more or less, but with less experience. But if you're looking at things from a coaching standpoint and say nuts and bolts what's going wrong, figure out why you can drive to the 20-yard line

and come away either with zero points or giving the other team six points as a result of that because that's happened several weeks in a row. I can't believe that they don't use kenneth walker the third more in these situations and i can't under well they i mean look well they did on fourth and one it didn't work out very well they have a terrible offensive line and the rams have a good defensive line yeah and also the two weeks in a row now they've had horrific center to quarterback exchanges whether it's in he's directly under center or he's in the shotgun and it's happened in the red zone.

There was one snap that went, I think, 20 feet over Geno Smith's head. Geno jumped and was fully extended. It was still 10 feet over his head. It was not close. It only went out of the stadium. And I'm watching this go down and I don't know how much you watch

the last week's debacle against the Bills, but there were bad penalties across the board. There were guys on defense fighting one another on the sidelines. I don't know how much you watch the last week's debacle against the Bills, but there were bad penalties across the board. There were guys on defense fighting one another on the sidelines. To me, it looks like a team that makes mistakes at every level, including special teams where they haven't been good either. And that, to me, is more reflective of anything else than coaching. And I feel bad because I want McDonald to succeed.

I loved his pedigree coming in. But right now, this feels like he's in a little bit over his head. You know, you might be right. I don't know the stuff going on on the sidelines. That's one of the things where I'm not eating, drinking, and sleeping the Seahawks, so I don't know some of that stuff. When you talk about special teams miscues,

when you talk about the penalties, yesterday was another penalty bowl. I don't know how many penalty bowls the Seahawks have played in, but the Patriots game was one, too. That's the thing that you should be able to correct. The center exchanges, that's a weird problem because Connor Williams is a veteran. He's a veteran.

He's been a decent player for many, many years in the NFL. That's another correctable thing. I know some of the guys around him at guard aren't as strong. But there are a lot of things here that you start to ask. The question is, how are you preparing? You know, what's going on in your meetings? What's going on? Even if you're doing non-contact practices, are you working in the exchange more, et cetera? And those are questions that McDonald's has to answer. I don't want to one and done this guy, you know, because the team's like around 500 and you ran the personnel, especially on defense really isn't there, but these are questions he

has to address moving forward. Okay, I want to focus on some of the better teams in the NFL now. Longtime listener Theo writes in, Morning guys, any chance when you talk NFL, you can talk a bit about the Commanders and the season they're having with Jaden Daniels as a rookie QB. The Commanders are 7-2 for the first time since 1996. To give you an idea of how damaged this once proud team and brand are,

it's been 30 years since they've gone to the midway point of the season with this good of a record. So good on Theo and the rest of the Washington football team fans who have stuck around for this. What are your thoughts on this team right now? Obviously, the record's great. Daniels is great. I think we talked about whether it's sustainable for the rest of the season or not,

but they do know how to win football games, I'll say that, because they've won 7-9. Yes, they are very balanced on offense. They're efficient on offense. The defense is coming around a little bit, and when you look at, I mean, obviously, Daniels, he's runaway rookie of the year. It's not even close. He has an

unbelievably bright future. You look at their offseason acquisitions and it feels like win after win after win. Guys that you look at and say, well, he's at the end of his career. They're probably just getting nothing from him. They're good. Austin Eckler is good. Zach Ertz is good.

The offensive linemen that they grabbed from the Cowboys are good. They grabbed all the players for the Carolina Panthers who could actually play football. They grabbed them all, and they put them on their team. And so you got, oh, Jeremy Chin made a play. Frankie Lou Vu made a play. So you're getting all of these guys that you don't think of

as big marquee free agents. They're making all these contributions. It's allowing Jaden Daniels to be able to, you know, hand off and get plays, run short passes and get plays, and then do the things he can do that are so strong. So in terms of sustainability, you've got two games against the Philadelphia Eagles coming up, and that's going to be, will the real team in the NFC East please stand up?

Is it the Washington Commanders who are upstarts, who have some losses? The two losses are against their better opponents. They've beaten a lot of weaker opponents. Are they going to stand up against the Eagles starting in a couple weeks? Or are the Eagles going to be the ones that say, hey, we were a Super Bowl team a couple years ago, and we make a lot of mistakes, but we're just more talented? That's going to be the bellwether, I think,

for how far the commanders can really go for the rest of the season and in the playoffs. Well, the Dallas Cowboys lost again, and even worse, Dak Prescott and CeeDee Lamb, Prescott with a hamstring, Lamb with a shoulder, are set to get MRIs, so their future, at least in the short term, remains uncertain. Do you see any way back for the Cowboys? They're 3-5.

No, I don't, and it's funny because I was about to say, the Commanders also have two Cowboys games coming up, which should be the big games on their schedule and the big test for them. It's like, eh. And it's kind of like an eh situation, whether or not, whatever the status of Prescott and Lamar. Obviously, if those guys are gone a you know a falcons opponent that you don't look at and say well this is you know you can't beat the falcons you know they're not that good they've been having a fine season listless team mistake prone team teams that has too many men on the field on fourth and inches so they can't make a conversion uh team that gets nothing done on defense can't really stop the run can't protect prescott has no one else to go to when lamb is getting double covered nowhere else to go to when Lamb is getting double covered, nowhere else to go to the ball except Jake Ferguson, and he's a tight end who catches six-yard passes now and then. All of those problems come together and say the Cowboys are not

even close to the team that their reputation suggests that they were last year when they won 12 games. They're not that team at all, and they are in free fall. How much more painful is it for the Cowboys with their current state of their running game to see what Derrick Henry, who Jerry Jones said might not have fit their offense anyway, what he's doing with the Baltimore Ravens right now? Because

I laughed when Jerry came out and said that. I was like, that's the perfect spin for that team because if they had Derrick Henry right now, I can't even imagine what that offense would look like because he has been unbelievable. He's got a touchdown every week of this season and he makes that Baltimore

offense so much more dynamic. They're fun to watch. I actually feel like they kind of play with their food at times. They give themselves a disappointing loss like the one they had in Cleveland last week just so they can fire themselves up and then come out and blow the doors off Denver like they did on the weekend. They should try that in the playoffs. Yeah, they should. It's hard. They play with their food because their defenders drop lots of interceptions.

That's part of it. And they commit these penalties where it's like, oh, you got a sack. Oh, you grab the quarterback face mask. No, here's 15 free yards, Raiders. Here's 15 free yards, Jameis Winston. And I dropped interception so you get another chance. And that's who the Ravens are. But explain to me how Derrick Henry doesn't fit an offense. I know. No, we don't like, you know, on first and 10, handing off and getting six and seven and eight yards.

We hate that. And, you know, I mean, that's Jerry being Jerry and just saying crazy stuff at this point. But, like, the Ravens have the number one red zone offense in the NFL. We talk about the Seahawks' struggles. The Ravens get touchdowns when they reach the end zone 74.9% of the time. That's Henry. That's something the Ravens didn't have in previous years that I think you touched on.

They have Lamar Jackson running around trying to do all kinds of goofy stuff to manufacture, you know, short yardage opportunities. Now you just give it to Henry. And when you see in a lot of these games where the Ravens are getting up by like a touchdown and like sometimes that in the past was like a danger zone for the Ravens. I were up by a touchdown, but you know, they make a mistake here and there and they let the other team back in.

Now they just give it to Henry. They had a drive against the Broncos yesterday, started the third quarter. They're up by two scores. They just gave it to Henry, gave it to Henry, gave it third quarter. They're up by two scores. They just gave it to Henry, gave it to Henry, gave it to Henry. They were up by three scores.

The game was over at that point. Those are the things Henry brings to the table for the Ravens, and those are the things that the Cowboys decided they just couldn't afford this year. Have you started to imagine what it might be like if the Detroit Lions went to the Super Bowl?

That'd be great. It'd be incredible, wouldn't it? That'd be great. I hope to be able to go to the Super Bowl this year. be great. It'd be incredible, wouldn't it? That'd be great. I hope to be able to go to the Super Bowl this year. I hope to be able to cover it. And I want to hear Dan Campbell press conferences every day. And I want to see some Jared Goff redemption. And I want to hear more from Amon Ross St. Brown. I don't know, maybe even Hutchinson would be healthy by then. I haven't looked at it, but it would be great for those fans, great for that city, and great for NFL fans in general, where we look for these new heroes and we look for these new storylines and we see this team that runs the ball incredibly well

and is just able to win in all these different ways and has this dynamic coach who talks tough but backs it up with really clever ideas and things. I want to see all of that. It would be exciting to see. I know there are some very good teams right now. We're going to see one of that. It would be exciting to see. I know, like, there are some very good teams right now. We're going to see one of them tonight in the Kansas City Chiefs. I've watched a bunch of Baltimore games. But for me, Detroit feels like the team that can beat you

in the most variety of ways. Because, like, what they did in Green Bay on the weekend, it wasn't an offensive explosion like we saw the week before. But they just, just dominated whatever. It was 24-14 in the final, so it actually looked closer than it was, but they went into Green Bay. The weather was horrible.

It was tough trying to throw the ball, so they were able to run it, and the defense was great even without Hutchinson. I feel like in terms of the different ways that they can beat you, they might be the best team in the NFL in terms of that. That's exactly it. Yeah, they win a weather game. If

they get into a shootout, they can do that. They have enough on defense. They're so good on special teams where they get returns, they get stops, you know, good field goal, good platter, etc. You know, according to Aaron Schatz of DVOA Analysis, the analytics, they are currently the fifth best team all time through week nine in the NFL. They are up there with teams like the 2007 Patriots who went undefeated and other teams that went to the Superbowl. That's a testament to how good they are in how many areas. Now,

yeah, without Hutchinson, I think that's still a little bit of a problem for them that can hurt them down the road, but everything else is great. And you know, we've got what at 28 hours till the trade deadline or whatever. We might see somebody to come into Detroit and help them out for pass rush.

So it's the Chiefs and the Buccaneers tonight on Monday Night Football. The Chiefs are nine-point favorites. I think they've only won a couple games by more than nine points this season, but the bar is incredibly high for the Chiefs because they are 7-0, which means they have not lost a game yet. They are the Super Bowl champs, and people are like, oh, what's wrong with the Chiefs? It's an interesting dynamic, isn't it? Yes, it is.

And like you saw, can they go undefeated, and are they actually that good? And for some teams, when it's like it's a high-wire act, and yeah, they're undefeated, but all these close wins, you look at it and say, well, there's probably some luck involved and there might be some luck involved, but when you're a two time, you know, defending champion and three time champion in the last couple of years, et cetera, et cetera, you have to accept that part of what the chiefs are doing is they know how from a coaching staff level on down to manufacture wins like these.

Mike, this was great as always. Thank you very much for doing this. As always enjoy the game tonight. It should be a good one, and we'll do this again next Monday. You got it. Take care and enjoy your week. You too. Thanks. That's Mike Tanier, our NFL insider here on the Halford & Brough Show

on Sportsnet 650. Reminder that Mike, every week is a presentation of the Clayton Public House pregame to postgame. The Clayton Public House is your home of football. Catch all the action on 15 screens and two giant projectors. Visit them at theclaytonpub.com. We didn't ask him about Saquon Barkley's spinorama reverse hurdle. I think I got the wording on that one right.

That was incredible. He did drop a pass, though, you pointed out. Or sorry, he had a fumble. He had a fumble. And a scoop and score. Yeah. I like that phrase. It was a scoop and score. There was a scoop and score a fumble and a scoop and score yeah and uh the i like that phrase it's a scoop and score there was a scoop and score did you see the scoop and score

sounds like something homer would say it's like yeah it's a scoop and score yeah uh so the the eagles uh won again on the weekend so that sets up the top of the nfc east now with them and they mentioned the two games against the commanders because they, what watching those games, I never thought I'd say this, but watching Washington play is actually fun because Jane Daniels is so much fun to watch. So the Seahawks are pretty much cooked, right?

For the season. Well, well, just the way they look, their record, their four and five, their division though, their conference record is bad.

The division is, I know that it's bad. I know they, so out of their bi-week, they go down to San Fran. I suppose if they win that one, I'll get back on board. But right now, I'm not anticipating a win down in San Francisco. I haven't played the 49ers particularly well lately.

They played them close. So my question, though, is do you have a team that you're cheering for? Because I think I might be on Detroit's bandwagon. I'd love to see Detroit go. I'd love to see Detroit go. I'd love to see Detroit go. My, my dream Superbowl right now is Detroit. I kind of want to say Kansas city. Cause definitely,

but definitely Baltimore, Baltimore would be awesome too. Yeah, it would be. I mean, you can't go wrong. Cause you, you would have the,

the, the, the champs are here when Kansas City comes through. I get that. I just think the narrative would be so much cleaner if the Chiefs got in there against Detroit. It's like the team of the now. You can call them a dynasty if you want against the sad sack Detroit Lions. And I know the Lions nearly got there last year.

They had a close loss to the San Francisco 49ers, but they didn't get there and there was disappointment. And they're coming back this year and they look even stronger. So we mentioned the Kansas City Chiefs and how the expectations are just so crazy for these guys. You know, they won the Super Bowl. They're 7-0 and people are still like, yeah, but they need the refs help to win these games.

Or, yeah, but they haven't been blowing teams out. You know, it is, expectations are a thing. And we've seen that with the Vancouver Canucks this year and we saw it with the BC Lions, frankly. You know, the expectations where they get to the Grey Cup this year, you know, even though the odds were against them getting to the Grey

Cup. I don't know, Winnipeg's a good team. Saskatchewan's a good team, but those were the expectations that were set out and they set, they fell badly short of them. We'll talk to JC Abbott in just a few minutes about where the lines go from here, but the Canucks have the weight of expectations.

Biggest difference from last year to this year. Imagine last season, if the Canucks had started in their first 10 games, they lost just twice in regulation, eight points, or so eight games they got points from, five of them wins, five, two, and three. As Tony texts in, the Canucks are struggling, but are eighth in NHL points percentage. So why does it feel like they will be lucky to get a wild card spot?

Is this just the team trying to assimilate the new guys or is it the team trying to adjust to playing a more of a rush style offense? I think it's a lot of things right now, Tony. I think it is trying to assimilate the new guys. Some guys have fit in really well. Like you think about Kiefer Sherwood, he's fit in really well.

You know, Jake DeBrusque has been quiet until he scored a goal against San Jose. De'Arne has not fit in at all. Derek Forbert unfortunately had some personal circumstances that kept him out of the lineup. Lankanen's new. He's done really well. So not all the new guys have struggled. I do think they've adjusted or had trouble adjusting to some of the changes that Rick

Tockett wanted to make to their style of play. And I also think you have to look at the fact that, you know, even though Lankanen has played well, they haven't had Thatcher Demko, which means they've had to, they've been forced to play Archer Seelovs a few games and he's really struggled. And you do have to mention Elias Pettersson at this point. Last season, he was a big reason why the Canucks got off to that great start. And he was also a big reason why they failed to create offense down the stretch and into the playoffs.

So there's lots of things going on right now with this team. Also, take a look around. Sometimes I feel like we exist, I use in a vacuum quite a bit, in a positive and negative connotation. I think in this instance, there's a negative connotation with looking at the Canucks in a vacuum. Take a step back.

I'm not going to say touch grass. Don't go outside, but take a step back. Don't go outside right now. Don't go outside right now. It's horrible. But look at the rest of the NHL. First off, the Canucks have played the fewest games in the National Hockey outside right now. It's horrible. But look at the rest of the NHL. First off, the Canucks have played the fewest games in the National Hockey League right now.

Only they and the Carolina Hurricanes have played 10. Compare that to the New Jersey Devils, who have already played 14. So when you look at the points percentage, which our texter astutely points out, it's top 10 in the NHL. You're not going to get upset with that. If you're freaking out right now,

you're freaking out because you are Nashville, Colorado, one of those teams where the expectations are high and you're genuinely worried that this start to the season is going to sink you. In Colorado, it's because you have no healthy players. And in Nashville, it's because you're undergoing even a bigger,

bigger changeover and more alterations to your playing style. And here's the thing. It doesn't look good and you're not getting any results. The Canucks doesn't look great, but they're getting results. Nationals doesn't look good and they're not winning any hockey games. So those are the ones that you have to be somewhat concerned about. Top of the standings in points percentage.

Winnipeg and Minnesota. Yeah. Winnipeg has a plus 29 goal differential in 12 games. It's incredible. Winnipeg looks like an unstoppable force, but that's not sustainable. They will come back to earth here. Unless they don't. unless they don't and they

won 70 games this year um but yeah you look at and by the way um florida is right there as well right back in the mix after winning the stanley cup so if you want to do some revisionist history i would say that that win that the canucks got even though huberto and barkoff weren't in the lineup in Florida, I'd still say that was a pretty good win. If you want to look at the real, like, bad results from this season, I would say one was obviously the 6-0 blowout loss

to New Jersey on Wednesday. I think their first game of the season when they had a 4-1 lead and didn't win that game against Calgary. And what do those two games have in common? Seeloffs. Right. So there's a factor there for sure.

The games that Lankanen has been in, so too has the team. Coincidence? I don't think so. I mean, you tell me, dear listeners. I understand that it doesn't look perfect, but I always defer to it's good when you're collecting points, when you're not playing at your best or when you don't look perfect. But I think we can also acknowledge that there are some concerns with the team.

Without question. Because in a season, that's what you try and address those concerns. Either through coaching up, players playing better, or in the case of, I think, the Canucks defense, you're going to look at the management group to try and bring in someone on that blue line. I'm not even glass, not even half full, all the way full. This could be part of the ascension of this team.

If you want to peak, you definitely don't want to be peaking in October, November, December. You want to figure that out in the summer. I have zero panic with this team right now. Zero. I have some significant concerns, but it is not panic. Just different than panic. It's not panic.

Right. Nobody's freaking out. I'm not panicking. Nobody's freaking out except for Greg. JC Abbott is going to join us next. Talk about a very disappointing end to a BC Lions season that started out with so much hope and optimism and quite the carrot with the Grey Cup being hosted at BC Place. The Lions didn't even get to play a playoff

game at BC Place. Forget the Grey Cup. And now their season is over. They got some big decisions to make. Talk to JC Abbott from Three Down Nation, coming up next on the Halford and Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. It's Canucks Central with Dan Riccio and Satyar Shah, your destination for everything Canucks. Exclusive interviews, inside info,

and even the post-game show. Listen 4-6pm weekdays and on demand through your favorite podcast app. 7.33 on a Monday. Happy Monday, everybody. Halford, bravo. Sportsnet 650. Halford and Bravo in the morning is brought to you by Vancouver Honda, Vancouver's premier destination

for Honda customers. They have a friendly, knowledgeable staff that can help with anything you're looking for. Sales, financing, service, or parts. We are in hour two of the program. J.C. Abbott from Three Down Nation is going to join us in just a second here. This picks up again.

This is for Quincy. That's rest in peace. Quincy Jones, famous producer, produced and conducted We Are the World. I sat beside Quincy Jones at the Juno Awards.

What? I was a seat filler at the Juno Awards one year. He was at the Junos? Yeah, they were doing something for David Foster. He was probably like, why the hell am I here? No! I made Thriller.

What am I doing here? David Foster. David Foster is getting some sort of Lifetime Achievement Award. Oh, cool. Yeah, so Quincy Jones. Oh, Quincy Jones, one of the all-time great music producers. Also, I learned today, he made the Sanford and Sons song. Yeah.

He has no affiliation with this song whatsoever, but this song is called For Quincy. Yeah. So Quincy Jones passed away at the age of 91 this morning. We thought we'd pass that along. You are listening to the Halford and Brough show on Sportsnet 650.

Before we get to J.C. Abbott, I do need to address thank you to the numerous people who pointed out that when reflecting upon the Canucks win in Florida a couple weeks ago, I said that they beat a Florida team

without Huberto and Barkoff, which is actually correct. It's accurate. Yeah, Huberto wasn't there. Huberto did not play that game. I know I meant to say Kachuk and I said Huberto, but I'd just like to point out that I was still right. There's nothing the listeners enjoy

more than correcting you when you're wrong. Only three of them did it, so thank you to the three, including the one that coined it a Monday morning miscue. I'm going to use that moving forward. Okay, let's talk a little CFL, specifically the BC Lions. Joining us now, JC Abbott from Three Down Nation here on the Halford

and Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. Good morning, JC. How are you? I'm doing well, guys. Thanks for having me on. So I guess my question to you is, what happened? What happened to this season that started out with so much promise and the carrot of hosting a Grey Cup and ended with a loss

in the West Semi, not even the West Final, West Semi to Saskatchewan? Yeah, there's going to be a lot of hard conversations this offseason, and I know a lot of people are going to be a lot of hard conversations this offseason and i know a lot of people are going to focus on the quarterback position as they should and what went on with the change and what that may have done to the locker room but i think the simple and most important fact is this bc lions team just wasn't good enough overall in the way it was constructed and ultimately that hurt

them when it mattered most right they had some fagal flaws and they couldn't get it done when they needed to defensively they just didn't have enough talent right the pass rush was not good enough this year even after bringing in Matthew Betts. They struggled to make stops in the secondary. They struggled to generate turnovers. I mean, the numbers in terms of yards and points allowed, right up there with some of the best defenses in the league, but they're at the bottom of the league in terms of things like passer rigging allowed, and passer efficiency, and second down conversion rig allowed. All the things that

allowed teams to milk the clock and matriculate the ball down the field, as the old saying goes, and ultimately win football games against them. And that's what you saw in that playoff game against Saskatchewan, is they were able to control the clock. Trevor Harris was wildly efficient. And BC just could never generate a takeaway or a big play on defense. And then on the other side of the ball, offensive line hasn't been good enough. And that receiving core, while they've got some real stars and there's guys who I have faith in going forward,

they're just not good enough across the board. And when it mattered, you just don't see necessarily the spark of effort from guys like Alexander Hollins that you want to see in those moments where star players should take over a game, and they just didn't. I'm sure we'll get into the quarterback situation in a minute here, but there are far more flaws than that on this football team. How easy is it to fix those meat and potatoes issues in the offseason of the CFL?

I think there's the capacity to turn over a roster very quickly in the CFL because of free agency. Now, there's not as many one-year contracts as there were a few years ago, but the BC Lions have, I believe the number is going to be 33 pending free agents right now. So that's the bulk of your roster that if you're so inclined you can move on from or you can make a decision on in the coming weeks about whether you want to retain them or not and then across the league there's going to be talent talent that you can bring in to plug those holes. However, there is the factor of money, and the Lions are going to be playing a whole boatload to whichever quarterback

they end up keeping, but presumably Nathan Rourke, more than any other player in the CFL. That's certainly going to hamper them in terms of what they can put around him. When the Lions were at their peak, both in 2022 when Rourke was so successful and even last season, they were getting bargain rates on quarterbacks, right? They were not paying a whole bunch of money. And so that allowed them to have pieces elsewhere you saw the crunch come this season with VA getting a slight raise and them having to get rid of guys like Marcus Sales on the defensive side of the ball in training camp to save some cash and ultimately he becomes

an all-star with the Saskatchewan Roughriders and of course picks them off in this playoff game those are the types of types of cuts you have to make when you're paying a quarterback big chunks of change and if you don't find the right young talent to come in and replace them well then you have a bit of a problem i don't think the lions rookies were quite good enough this year to step into the roles that they were forced into. So JC, I was saying earlier in the show that I'd be shocked if Vernon Adams was on the Lions next season. I expect he'll be traded and that Nathan Rourke, although he struggled at times or didn't live up to expectations this season, is too talented and maybe more importantly too marketable to move on from

do you think that Nathan Rourke will be the guy next season for the BC Lions? I absolutely do I think that there was probably an outside possibility if Vern Adams Jr. had put together three playoff wins in fantastic fashion and won the team a home great cup that they would have considered keeping him but with the playoff loss with everything that's gone on this year the team made their choice when they brought in Nathan Rourke and as much as I love what V8 has done over the last two seasons really and I think he is an upper echelon quarterback in the CFL, Rourke's the right choice, right? I trust that given the full offseason,

with his work ethic, with his ability, he'll get back to the guy that we all expected to see. It was a tough hand that he was dealt to come in here to readjust to his fifth offense in a calendar year to try and readjust to the Canadian game in a locker room, which waske. But he is likely more talented. But even if it's equal there, he's way more marketable as a Canadian. And more importantly, he's younger, right? By five or six years from Bernard Adams Jr. Even if you say everything else is equal,

he's a guy that you could have as your franchise quarterback for longer than va that's the decision the lines are going to have to make and i think adams is going to ultimately get shipped off to another team unfortunately the with the way things have shaped up around the cfl it's probably going to have to be a division rival but that remains to be seen we're speaking to jc abbott from three down nation here on the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. Solely as a head coach, and looking just back, not forward here, what did you think of the job that Rick Campbell did this season?

Again, not the co-general manager part of it, just as a head coach, X's and O's, leading the team this season. What did you think of the job that Rick Campbell did? I saw he badly mishandled his locker room in terms of the quarterback position. And now that's with the benefit of hindsight. And I think everyone would admit that that was not done properly to the way that his players needed it to to respond. I like Rick as a coach.

I think he's done tremendous things here in BC. I don't think he has forgotten how to coach, but when he treated Rourke differently than he treated VA, in the sense that when VA was healthy and Rourke was struggling, he didn't give him the chance to get his job back like he did for rark in 2022 when he was having a similar season to what va was having this year and got hurt and then came back towards the playoffs right there was questions in the locker room whether people were voicing them or not about what are we doing here va hasn't done anything wrong you're not supposed to lose your job to injury in this sport and he sort of broke that that that critical

core rule of of a football locker room where the guy lost his job because of injury. And I don't think they ever truly recovered from that. You saw the precipitous drop-off in terms of their effort level and their want to in those games. I think the statement you saw from them in the regular season finale where they all rallied around VA was too little too late but it sent a very clear message that they were dissatisfied with how everything was handled this year and I'm not sure if he can come back from that right I hope he can and I believe that with what he's done in the two previous seasons,

Rick Campbell deserves an opportunity to try and make it right. But that is a tough thing to rebuild trust after. I think you hit the spot on, like nail on the head, that he handled it just flat out wrong. Because I was saying earlier, before we had you on, I actually felt bad for Vernon Adams Jr. down the stretch because all of a sudden he was tasked with trying to rediscover his game after having atrophied for weeks and weeks.

The move to put him in in Montreal, if you were going to do that, it needed to be way earlier instead of the sort of meaningless regular season finale. It felt like a desperation play. And in the end, it kind of ultimately did because the change was, it felt futile at that point. I don't know if you agree with me on that one, but. Yeah, it was a desperate move, right?

It was a move to try and salvage something. And it's not just that VA wasn't getting the snaps in games. It's that, and for good reason, given the fact that he was coming back and he needed all those reps if he was going to be the starter, he didn't get any practice reps for the time when Nathan was at the helm.

And it creates this odd dynamic of a guy, and Ricky has been very clear about, they have two good quarterbacks and he, I'm wanting to treat them equally, but you have an odd dynamic where you have two good quarterbacks, and I'm wanting to treat them equally, but you have an odd dynamic where you have two good quarterbacks, but only one was getting any attention, and it's not the one that your locker room views as their leader. I think back to the game before the regular season finale,

Nathan Rourke's last start, and the Lions put out a video on their own social media, sort of the hype circle before the game where everybody's chanting and cheering and getting ready to go out there. And Nathan and Vernon have been very respectful of each other. And Nathan allows Vernon to be in the center of that and lead that because he's the leader of the team. And then he has to stand awkwardly to the side as vernon riles everybody up and then vernon has to walk off to the sideline while nathan takes them out onto the field that's just not a dynamic that was ever going to be

successful for anybody um i think ultimately it will work out long term for the bc lions but this season i think it hurt them irreparably. When do you think some decisions will be made on Rick Campbell's future with the BC Lions? I saw that the Calgary Stampeders said that Dave Dickinson is going to be back, and I know there are some Lions fans who are hoping that Dave Dickinson might become a free agent and come to Vancouver, but that's not going to happen. So when do the Lions make their decisions? Well, the Lions are going to have their locker room wrap up today in a few hours,

so I'll get a chance to go down and talk to Coach Campbell and co-general manager Neil McEvoy and get their sense of the situation. But you have to think that the conversations with Wayne Vigneault, the team president, and Omar Doman are happening as we speak, and you either have to make a move fairly quickly or just following the Grey Cup. There's a bit of a media moratorium during the Grey Cup week. I think the organization is going to want to take away from that event, so you either have to do it in the next couple days

or you have to wait until after that great cap is finished to make any sort of change. I think it's going to be seriously considered. As I've said, I believe Rick Campbell's earned the opportunity to try and course correct based on the previous two seasons. But this is a guy who ultimately doman didn't hire to bc and who had promised you know a great cup season in a year where the owner probably deserved it right the way that he invested in this team above and beyond what is normal and expected from the CFL owner,

both in terms of putting on the great cup event and all the things he's doing around that, but also in terms of what he was willing to pay for the roster of the lines. I mean, they're likely going to be over the CFL salary cap and those fines are going to come out of Amar Doman's pocket. And he's agreed to do that so they have players like Nathan Rourke and Matthew Betts come in midseason to try and make a shot at this thing

when you don't deliver and it's because your coach maybe mishandled that situation and you're paying for it. It's really, really hard to make that decision to keep a guy that ultimately wasn't your hire to begin with. So it's going to be tough conversations. I don't know quite when it's going to come down the pipe, but it could be as soon as the next couple of days. Hey, JC, I did want to ask you about Randy Ambrosie and what you thought about the news

that he will no longer be the commissioner of the CFL. Well, he's going to be the commissioner of the CFL until they find his replacement. But what do you think about his legacy and what is going to be the challenge of finding a new commissioner for the CFL? I think Randy Ambrosie's legacy is going to look a lot better when we are 5, 10, 15 years removed from his tenure ship than it does right now. He's rubbed a lot of fans the wrong way over the years. I think that is generally the response to him stepping down

is goodbye and good riddance. But if you really look at things,ically he has floundered a lot more than what the results have been because the cfl is in a better spot right now than it's been perhaps ever in its history particularly on the ownership front and he's sort of bumbled and stumbled his way to that but with what ammar doman does in bc with what pierre carl peledo has done in montreal and hopefully what larry thompson can do with edmonton although that remains to be seen this league has much better ownership than it has ever had before and that's a huge testament to randy and and his ability um the things that he's failed on, I think anyone would have failed on, right?

The 2020 canceled season is going to stick in a lot of people's minds. I don't think that was going to happen under anyone's leadership, right? I don't think a team in Halifax after the pandemic was ever going to happen under anyone else's leadership. These are considered his big failings. CFL 2.0 and the global program was never going to generate international revenue. But the problem is on each of these core legacy things, he talked such big talk and spoke so flowery about the successes that he was going to have.

That was my issue. He was a walking press release. It was just a walking press release. This whole thing with genius sports saying, oh, it's going to single-handedly change the way we watch football games. And then we're like, can we get the PDF of the stats here? Because there's nothing. That was a big problem for him.

He talked a big game and didn't deliver. Exactly. And it's not his responsibility on the stat system right he's not the the tech engineer but because he was talking that talk he gets the flack and rightfully so right like he is he's gonna get judged on what he said rather than what he did and as time fades away and we get further removed from it we're going to judge him more on those ownership things and those successes in the seven year cba and then we are on the false promises but right now those false promises sting and ultimately i think they're the the reason why he is no longer going to be the commissioner, because the Board of Governors bought some of those false promises themselves and haven't seen the revenue to back it up. I don't know how much more revenue is out there for the CFL, to be entirely frank,

but they want somebody as their next commissioner who's going to bring more of the revenue that Randy Ambrose promised and then didn't find. JC, this was great, man, as it always has been this year. Thank you a whole bunch for all the coverage you gave us this season for the BC Lions. It's obviously a disappointing season, but it was always great getting your insights into this very, very tumultuous team. Enjoy what's left of the postseason in the Grey Cup,

and we'll talk again soon. It was a pleasure, guys. Thanks for having me on. Thanks for coming on. That's JC Abbott from 3 Down Nation here on the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. It's wild to me that after everything that happened in this topsy-turvy summer and fall, that the

Vancouver Whitecaps got more playoff games at BC Place than the BC Lions did. It's crazy. It's crazy. By the way, I did have a couple of people reach out to me yesterday wondering if the Caps go on a magical run or something. Will we get any more games at BC Place?

The answer is no. That's it. That's it? Because they're the lower seed. So it's a best of three in the first round. And MLS essentially put that in there to guarantee that every team that made the playoffs would have a home game. Except maybe the number nine team. Correct.

But then after that, it's just one game. I do believe if they make a miracle run all the way to mls cup and so does atlanta that they would host mls cup because they'd be the higher in the community so mls cup isn't at a neutral site anymore it's at the it's at the whoever has the higher standing in the charity or sorry not charity shield that's england community shield i'll let me double check that at the break though just because i'm not sure exactly they've never got that far, so I've never had to bother trying to look at it. I think you can just check on that a little later.

Let's get past LAFC in LA first. For the West, it's pretty cut and dry. The Whitecaps are the lowest remaining seed. So should they pull the upset on Friday, which, by the way, is an 8 o'clock kickoff, late- night football, football after dark MLS after dark on Friday night from LAFC stadium in Los Angeles. So yeah, we'll wait for that one first, but I am cautiously optimistic because of the situation.

If you're the away team, and at this point I would say to a certain degree, the caps are playing with house money. They're not expected to have gone this far, not expected to be in this position. Ain't nothing wrong with going down and, you know, batting down the hatches and playing for penalties. You know, nothing wrong with it. Take it to a coin flip.

See what happens. Kevin Woodley is coming up next. We'll talk goalies with Kev, but also the Canucks' schedule this week and their performance on Saturday against the San Jose Sharks in a 3-2 win. Don't forget to get your What We Learns In into the Dunbar Lumber text line at 650-650.

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