Halford & Brough in the Morning - Thomas Müller Debut + NFL Preseason Overreactions

Episode Date: August 18, 2025

In hour one, guest hosts Jamie Dodd and Dan Riccio dive into what happened on the weekend in sports. Thomas Müller makes his Whitecaps FC debut; how did he look? Co-host of Yahoo Sports' NFL Podcast, 'Inside Coverage' Frank Schwab joins the show. Frank talks Seahawks improved offensive line, Stafford's health, Caleb WIlliams improvement and who will win the QB battles in Cleveland and New York.  This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. You're listening to Half-Ford and Brough. Swung on, hit high, left field, towards the corner, Nimmo over, he's looking up, and it is gone. Home-run, Cal Raleigh. That's going to be close. Close to the hole now. Picking him speed, getting close, Scotty Schaeffler, and that is right. He did it. He made it. Chip and Bernie. Oh, my goodness. Do you believe it?

Good morning. Welcome to Halford and Brough here on Sportsnet 650. The fellas. Mike Halford, Jason Brough, they are still on vacation. So I'm Jamie Dodd here. And joining me for the week, very excited for this. None other, you hear him, of course, on Canucks Central throughout the season. He is. Dan Riccio, Reach. What's going on, man? Oh, you know, not too much. Am I Halford? Are you, am I rough? What? I don't know which one I am. I'm sitting in Brough's seat, but I'm doing Halford's job. All right. So I don't know. Adjust accordingly. A little bit of both, I guess. I can be the sad club commish for a week.

Please do. If I absolutely need to be. Please do. Maybe we'll get Mount Reach going off here. I think the other element of this week's morning show that people are excited for is a Canucks Talk versus Canucks Central sort of feud that has I don't know. I was getting texts about it last week

during the People's show 650, 650 on the Dunbar Lumber text message inbox so I don't know if people expect us to like fight this week or something. Last week on the show and you'll find this out by the way. Yes. You'll discover all of the great little bits on the Halford and Brough show. They do ask us anything Friday. And somebody asked, who would you most want from 650 to go on like a long road trip with? And I said Bick. Yeah. And then

I was like, I don't think Bick likes me very much though, because he always complains when he has to, when I has to host the people show with me. And B, I saw later people were text, Big sent me. Someone was like, why don't you like Jamie? And then somebody was also like, well, who would be the worst people to go on? And I was like, maybe Drans and Reach. And I was like, they like, I can't tell if there's like real a real feud there or just a fake feud? So maybe someone thought I was I was saying that you guys have beef, but not to my knowledge. Well, uh, we'll let

the, we'll let the people believe there's a feud. We'll figure it out. That always brings more ratings. Uh, reaches, exactly. Reaches here for the week with me. We got producer Elon here as well. Good morning. Good morning. And of course, Laddie. Hello. Hello. Laddie. Doing his best to keep us on the rails. Trying. Finding those golf clips. Just an

absolutely thrilling golf clip to start off the show. A radio golf clip. Better than radio golf play-by-play. I mean, it really matched just the absolute incredibleness of the shot that Scottie Sheffler hit on 17 yesterday. It was pretty good. Radio play-by-play for golf for the BMW championship, too, not even a major. We might have to rank radio play-by-play sports at some point during the week.

We're going to need the content. That's an interesting one, actually. I like that. All right. It is Halford and Broughier. here's what's coming up on the show at 6.30, Frank Schwab covering the NFL for Yahoo Sports. He will join us, of course, preseason week two in the books for the NFL. A lot of hype, a lot of excitement about what the Seattle Seahawks did in their preseason game

against the Kansas City Chiefs on the offensive side of things. We'll talk to Frank Schwab about that. We'll go around the league with him at 630. At 7 o'clock, Josh Goldberg, he covers the Blue Jays for Jays Nation and the DFA podcast. Jays lose yesterday but win the series against the Rangers and some really interesting questions developing for the Jays about

their playoff rotation, what it might look like, how they're going to handle the imminent debut of Shane Bieber. So lots of stuff to dig into with Josh Goldberg and then at 8 o'clock we'll chat with Julian McKenzie from the athletic. He covers the Ottawa senators and there's a lot to get into with Ottawa.

Of course, new arena is moving forward slowly but surely it seems like for downtown. a really interesting team going into next season. And also he had a good piece and a good chat up with Nazim Cadry recently as well that we can dive into. And Cadre of some interesting comments about where he might figure in the pecking order for team candidate at the Olympics, which I think is pretty fascinating. So we can dive into that with Julian as well at 8 o'clock. And then, of course, 8.30 will do what we learned.

So start sending your text in now, 650, 650 to the Dunbar-Lumber text line. I should point out as well. I've all thrown off having a chat with you. I haven't done any of the many, many reads that I have to do in the first segment of the show. So Alford and Brough this show usually feel whenever I tune in on the podcast, it feels like a NASCAR. 90% reads.

It's just like, what has happened? It essentially reads like a European hockey jersey. I usually, uh, there's just all kinds of sponsors. I usually listen to the first, uh, the first segment of the show like during the season as part of my prep. And it's always like I put it on on Spotify. And then I hit the like skip ahead 30 second button like 10 times.

And it's like and then I'm it's like, oh, still do an ad. No, you listen to every ad. What are you talking about? Still doing. Andrews. Anyways, Halford and Brough is brought you by Sands and Associates. Learn how a consumer proposal could get you on the road to being debt free in just two weeks. Visit sands dash trustee.com.

And we are coming to you live from the Kintech studio, Kintech footwear and orthotics working together with you in step. And 650, 650. is the Dunbar Lumber Text Line. That's where you should send your What We Learned submissions. Hashtag WWL, what you've learned in the last 72 hours in sports since it is a weekend. And we will read those at 830. Never too early to send them in, though. All right, that's what's coming up on the show.

First, let's tell everyone what happened. Hey, did you guys see the game last night? No. No. What happened? I missed all the action because I'm losing. We know how busy your life can be. What happened?

You miss that? Whoa! What happened is brought to you by the BC Construction Safety Alliance, making safety simpler by giving construction companies the best in tools, resources, and safety training. Visit BCCSA.c.ca.cela.capt sports weekend, as I was just mentioned in there in the rundown, and we heard the clip from golf, NFL, baseball, tons of stuff happening.

But, of course, we got to start local. And of course, we got to start with the scene. at BC Place yesterday. Thomas Mueller makes his white caps debut. It really happened. He came onto the pitch. He played a little more than half an hour for the white caps. However,

the Houston Dynamo, and I guess a very overzealous linesman, spoiled the party a little bit at BC place because the white caps. That linesman's got some stones, man. Oh, man. The white caps concede late in a 1-1 draw against Houston. Brian White scored from the

penalty spot in the six minutes. So his incredible goal scoring season continues for the white caps. White caps had plenty of chance in this in this one. As much as we can talk about the linesman and the call on the Mueller would have been goal. The white caps had plenty of chances, could not convert, let Houston hang around. Mueller came on in the 61st minute, hit just a lethal volley shortly after for what looked like it was going to be a goal in just an incredible moment.

And you could see the celebration happening in the stands and watching at home. I was like, oh my goodness. Are you kidding me? That's an incredible story. I was literally saying to myself, wow, he hasn't had a good touch since coming on in the field. And then, bang! Oh my God. He scores this unbelievable worldly of a goal.

Now, Reach was texting me. It was like, Thomas Muller is the new Oliver Ekman-Larsen here. It's like, whoa, Reach. Calm down, buddy. He's been on for five minutes. Hey, that's Stanley Cup champion Oliver Racknell. That's true. Unfortunately, Brian White was offside.

So that goal will go down in Vancouver sports lore as what could have been, what could have been. The most Vancouver thing. happen. Like, if you're a Vancouver sports fan, like, is there any way you could have scripted it better? Yeah. It's like, what's the way that most unpredictable thing to happen, but when it happens, it's like, yeah, this feels very Vancouver. And that's exactly what happened with Thomas Mueller yesterday. It shouldn't take away from what is still a very exciting time to be around the white caps. But then it follows up with them giving up a goal against the run of play and not even getting the three points out of a match that they dominated for essentially 89 minutes. Yeah. And

And so our tour for the Houston Dynamo, the midfielder scored in stoppage time. And again, as you said, very much against the run of play. It's two points dropped, really, for the white caps, as much as it is, you know, a positive result in the sense. You pick up the point. But for a team like the white caps in the position in the standings where they are hosting Houston, you look at that as you want three points. You want to continue your push for the best possible playoff positioning and especially now with Thomas Mueller in the fold. However, I mean, the result is secondary, right? was about getting Thomas Mueller into the squad, getting him his, you know, getting the first

game and the first action out of the way. And it was a really cool moment. It was a sellout in the lower bowl for BC plays. But now I'm very, very excited and curious to see what the next steps are and where this goes. Because you were kind of joking there about, man, he's not a ton of great touches. And there were moments where you could see him trying to develop that link up play with Brian White. There were some not up to his standard touches as well for Thomas Mueller. I also wonder, and you know, we were just chatting before the show and I was thinking about this watching the game as well. What must it be like if you are, I don't know, Sebastian Barhalter or pick a name, pick a name out of a hat for the, from the Vancouver White Caps. And you know,

you're a really good MLS player and Bearhalter's gotten called up to the U.S. team as well. So like he's a, he's a good player, but he's not playing with Thomas Mueller on a regular base. He's not playing with players of that stature on a regular basis. And all of a sudden, this guy who just landed last week has had one training session with you. But you've seen him on TV winning Bundesliga and winning the World Cup and winning the Champions League. Now he's standing, you know, 20 yards away from you calling for a pass. And you've got a decision. Am I passing to him?

I'm taking this guy on? What am I doing? That adjustment for the rest of the white caps must be really, really difficult to make. It's inevitable. A player of that stature. coming into your squad is going to have an effect. They've got a presence about them. And that's exactly what happened with Thomas Mueller yesterday.

It almost felt like they kind of started to go away a little bit from what was working in the whole team identity thing because, oh, we want to get Mueller the ball. We want to get him his touches. We want to get him integrated. And so it almost felt a little bit forced to me at different points. But I get it. And I think that's part of the natural growing period.

that they're going to have around Thomas Mueller. And so it needed to happen. You get him his 30 minutes. Maybe he starts next week again at home next Saturday. Those are things that they have to develop. You have to remember and remind yourself as though this guy, yeah, he's a golden boot winner and has scored a billion goals for Bayern Munich over the years, one of the best players of the last 15 years in all of world football.

But you have to remember he's only been in town for three days. He had one training session with his new teammates and with his new club. You have to give it time for him to really start to gel and understand where he's going to best fit into this squad. Yeah, and it does set up pretty nicely actually for them the schedule with no match between now and next weekend. And they're at home as well, right? So you'd think they'd be able to get some good time in on the training pitch, really start that process of integrating him. And that is going to be the fascinating challenge for Jesper Sorensen and for Thomas Mueller and the rest of the squad. but the manager in particular is integrate a unique,

because this is not just a great European football player coming over, right? He was unique within the context of European football, right? Like they had to invent new words to describe the position and the role he was playing for Bayern Munich and Germany often. So it's not just as you're taking in, okay, this guy's a classic number nine, and we know exactly what he's going to do, put him, he's going to lead the line, we're going to get him service in the box, he's going to score goals. Mueller's a unique player.

So inherently, there's going to be a bit of a process to figure out how do we retain what we do so well as a team, what's made us one of the best teams in MLS, while now bringing this distinct player in who has so much to offer, but is also distinct and keep the best of what we've done while integrating what Thomas Mueller can do. And I think that's going to be, you know, everything we heard was that Mueller was really impressed with what he heard from yesterday. for So certainly there's a plan. I'm sure they have a lot of ideas about how to go about doing that. Now they're going to have to get down to the nitty gritty of putting that in place in training and then hopefully on the pitch next weekend as well.

Well, and we even saw him on the field start to dictate positionally where he wanted to play and what he was seeing. We saw Jaden Nelson flip to right wing later on in the match towards the end of it there. And Mueller was kind of in a left wing hybrid support striker role next to Daniel Rios at the time. up top. So there was a couple of different looks and he clearly showed some leadership on the field as well. It's just, you know, I almost felt like he wanted to make the most of the moment too. He had the great goal, right? Which, you know, and he talked about it after the match. It was incredible. The fans, my teammates, the way everybody reacted. It's unfortunate it was called off.

But what an incredible moment that was when it did happen. And then you kind of felt it afterwards. he tried some audacious passes, like flick passes and things of that nature, which he did normally at Byron Munich, but it almost felt like he was, he wanted to entertain the crowd at the same time and understanding that he's the guy now more than anybody else. Whereas at Byron Munich, even though he was a finisher and it's such a big part and such a fan favorite for that team, like there's other guys that some other pretty good players there too. take some of the load off of your shoulder. So there is an adjustment period here for him as well, which he acknowledged post-game. Yeah, and we'll try to get Esper Sorensen on the show at some point this week

and maybe dig into what his perspective is on some of these questions a little bit and how he plans to use him. But next up for the white caps they host St. Louis on Saturday at BC Place. So that would be the next opportunity for Thomas Mueller to be in action for the white caps as they

draw Houston 1-1. So there's a couple other things I wanted to get to on the caps before we move on. And away from Thomas Mueller, like there was a lot going on. You get Ali Ahmed back in the squad as well coming back from injury. That's another big part for the team. Kenji Cabrera makes his MLSW.

Kenji Cabrera. He looked like bad for Kenji Cabrera because he was going to be the big signing and everyone's like, who? Who's this guy? And then they were doing like introductory pictures with him and Thomas Mueller like, ah, this is, there's a juxtaposition here. Two people who are basically of the same resume. Yeah. But a couple of takeaways from last night's game, Jaden Nelson, wow, he was putting on a show yesterday at BC Place. I wish he would have finished that great solo goal coming off the left wing. He is an incredible fun. What a coup for Axel Schuster to bring this guy back to MLS still in his early 20s, already Canadian capped, and looks like he's starting to realize his potential that put him on the map earlier in his career for a move over to Europe, didn't work out, comes back to.

MLS and is starting to shine and has Sean all year right from the get-go when he started with a goal and three assists in his first caps match of the season. Love that. The midfield still looks great with Kubas and Bear Halter. Bear Halter's been a revelation this year. I mean, I don't know where this breakout came from, but every time I watch the guy, I am super, super impressed. And my biggest concern about the white caps is on defense. Tristan Blackman had to come out at half time. So you're essentially down your two starting centerbacks in that moment because Blackman's nursing a bit of an injury, and you've got Veslinovich, who's out for the year. So not that they were under duress a lot, but when they were, it didn't feel very comfortable

for the white cats. And it's coming off the midweek match where Utvick was in the crosshairs from fans, right, for his defending on the two goals. So they're like, they didn't give up a lot, but they didn't give up a lot because of the way they play as a team. But late in the match, when Houston did start to put. a little bit of pressure, and they made a couple of substitutions, and you saw some of their attackers take defenders one-on-one, that's when you felt the white caps get a little bit more

uncomfortable, and eventually it led to the equalizer. If I'm a Caps fan, that's probably what I'm worried about most now, is do we have the right defenders to truly be an MLS contender, given the injury to Vasilinovich, and how Blackman is clearly not at 100%. And there are a few days left in the transfer window for MLS. So that's something to monitor. or for the white caps. I know Manuel Vath, who's been on the station reporting that they're talking to a team in Belgium about a central defender. So they're aware, I think, is the sense. They want to upgrade it and it's just going to be a matter of finding the right piece. And then as always with MLS, getting them integrated, getting them up to speed.

So you trust them. And so they're a positive part of the squad by the time the MLS Cup playoffs roll around. All right. We'll quickly touch on the other event at BC Place. this weekend, which was the BC Lions, who are back to 500, they cruise to a 36 to 18 win at home against Montreal. Nathan Rourke threw four touchdowns. Kean Hatcher had a monster day at wide receiver 11 catches for 156 yards and a couple of touchdowns as well. This was a game the lines very much were expected to win considering Montreal's quarterback situation, but you know, that's a revenge game or anything like that. But that doesn't account for the excellent offensive showing, right? You can say, oh, it's a backup

QB, sure, but your offense was still clicking at a really impressive rate. And now I look at the Lions and you look at the schedule coming up. They got to go to Toronto, then they have a bive and they play at Ottawa. So that's, you know, too, a lot of time out east, but still neither of those teams are that impressive. Then you come

back and play home against Ottawa. Very favorable stretch with Ottawa and Toronto, both at the bottom of the East division. So that's great. Okay, hey, you get this win, you get back to 500. Now you can look at the rest of your schedule and say we've got a chance to build on that and maybe even surge well above 500. I also look at their body of work as a whole of this season.

The only West Division team, the Lions have beat this year is Edmonton. Their next game against one of the top three in the West, not till September 19th in Calgary. So I do kind of feel like whatever they do on this next stretch, even if they rattle off three or four in a row here, the question is going to be, okay, you can beat some of the poorer teams in the East Division.

You can beat Edmonton. Yeah. Can you beat Winnipeg, Saskatchewan, Calgary? Because if the answer is no, if you're not up to par with those teams, if you can't measure up to those teams, well, then you're not going to be a great cup contender. And so we're in this kind of month-long, I don't want to say a pause or anything,

they're still playing games, but it's this vacuum for the BC Lions where the major question that they have to answer, which is how they stack up with the rest of the West Division, with the top of the West Division, they're not going to get a chance to answer for the next month here. Well, the offense is kicking into gear, right? And it's been that way for a few weeks now.

They've got just putting up a ton of points. Overall, I think their second best offense in CFL right now, at least from points scored. The defense has got to come around, but it's not going to get tested a ton, as you mentioned, until they start playing some of those bigger teams. The Argos do have an offense that can put up some numbers, so that'll be a bit of a test for the defense. We'll see how that goes, even though the Argos are, what, 2 and 8? on the season. So I'm just, you know, I think early on, I wanted to see more from Nathan Newark, and now the offense is really starting to kick it into gear with what we've seen over

the last three weeks. And if that continues, you know, maybe we see a really strong second half heading into the CFL playoffs for the Lions. Yeah, it would be nice to see, no doubt about it, as you said, especially with Nathan Roark and his performance turning up right now. We'll save the baseball stuff for a little bit later on in the show. Lots to get into if the The Mariners were playing in the Little League classic against the Mets in Williamsport yesterday as well. But while we're talking football, we'll touch quickly on the Seattle Seahawks who beat the Chiefs 33-16 in week two of NFL preseason action. And look, adjust your preseason Super Bowl games. Adjust your preseason Super Bowl teams.

Elon is on my wavelength here because look, they draft Gray-Zable in the first round. And look, I love. And now they have the best offensive line in the league. I love a guard who can get out and mall people in the run game as much as the next guy. Okay? It's awesome. It's fun to watch. I understand it.

And they had some great snaps. The old line had some great reps in that game. Let's pump the brakes a little bit. All right. The amount of, oh my gosh, this is incredible. His offense is poised to explode. Clint Kubiak, what a genius. The system.

The Clint Kubiak system and the play action and the running and the identity and the offensive line. Guys, it was a preseason game. And I'm not rooting against them. I hope it is entertaining. I would love to be able to watch a Seahawks team that has that identity, that has a stud offensive linemen in the run game that can go out and be a problem for teams. The type of guard that other teams have to game plan against, which is pretty hard to have. That would be amazing.

Let's just, let's get him like a couple of games in the regular season before we start going there. That's all I ask. So you're pumping the brakes. I'm pumping the brakes just a little bit here. Having the best O line in the league. Yeah. Yeah, I'm going to take the under on that. It's Monday.

You don't have to be so negative about things. Okay, so a couple of things. Obviously, it's preseason, so you've got to take everything with a grain of salt. Yes. Chiefs had about half of their defensive starters out there. Chris Jones didn't play. I think their linebackers didn't play. Their top two corners didn't play.

So, you know, there's the context you're looking for as far as what you need to know about who the Seahawks were actually playing. So, yeah, of course, you've got to take every. everything with a grain of salt in the preseason. But what else do you want them to do? They showed about as well as they could possibly show. It's a good performance. And now, through two preseason games, I think their run game is at like five yards per carry in the Kubiak system. Now, okay, it's going to change a lot during the regular season.

But you know what? Last year, their offensive line, not only was it not up to snuff talent-wise, but I think the scheme and everything about the Ryan Grubbing. as we found out over the course of the season was not right. No, it wasn't working. And now you've got something that's tried, true, tested, the Kubiak, Shanahan, zone run scheme that's worked forever in the NFL. You've got some of that here. And it's going to make this Seahawks O line better than the sum of its parts. And we're starting to see that early on in preseason. So I'm positive. I will say, I think that style of offense is a great

fit for Sam Darnold as well. I think it's a great fit for Ken Walker at the running back position. I'm not saying they're going to be a disaster or anything, but man, I don't know that I'd, I can't remember the last time I saw Seahawks fans taking a preseason victory lap quite like that. I mean, it's the NFL preseason, man.

You know, like, we're all bored. What else are we supposed to do? We're watching highlights yesterday of Spencer Rattler versus Tyler Shook, you know, like what is what it's all about?

Man, who's winning that crazy quarterback job in New Orleans? Well, you know what? Maybe we can ask Frank Schwab about Spencer Rattler. We can get into that next. with Frank Schwab. He covers NFL for Yahoo.

He's also the co-host of Yahoo Sports NFL podcast inside coverage so we can chat. Seahawks offense and O-line and the rest of the storylines around the NFL preseason with Frank Schwab next here on Halford & Brough Sportsnet 650. Welcome back to Halpinbruff here, Sportsnet 650, Jamie Dodd, and Dan Riccio with you. Halfenabruff is brought to you by Sands and Associates, BC's first and trusted choice for debt help. With over 3,000 five-star reviews, visit sands-trustee.com. We are live from the Kintech Studio, 650, 650, 650. is the Dumbar Lumber text line.

Metro Vancouver's trusted choice for contractors and rental warriors. For over 50 years, visit them at one of their three locations to serve you or online at Dumbarlumber.com, and you can send your what we learned submissions in now. Hashtag WWL. That's coming up at 830 on

the show. But right now, joining us on the hotline powered by Power West Industries covering the NFL for Yahoo. He is the co-host of Yahoo Sports NFL podcast inside coverage. He is. Frank, thanks for doing this today. How are you? Hey, good. What's going on? Not too much. So out here, the buzz for week two of the NFL preseason definitely centered around the Seahawks performance in their win against the Chiefs

and not just the win in preseason, but the manner they went about it, really relying on the run game, mauling the Chiefs, who yes, of course, we're not starting their entire first string defense in that one. But a lot of excitement about what that could portend for the Seahawks. and especially their offense under Clint Kubiak, the offensive coordinator this season. How much optimism should Seahawks fans have about what that unit can accomplish this year? Yeah, and, you know, I mean, Kubiak is a respected offensive coordinator. It went south last year with the Saints, but they got off to a great start and I got a bunch of injuries. I can't blame that all on him.

And yeah, I think it will be a different approach for the Seahawks. I do think they want to run the ball more. think they want to, you know, emphasize a physical side of the game, for sure. They have the two great backs there. Now, the question is, can you off of the line hold up? They look good, obviously, gets the chiefs. What to make? Like, you kind of alluded to.

What do you make of that? It's pre-season. Pre-season results don't always matter that much. But you'd rather play well than not play well. I mean, if you're given a choice. So I thought it was a good outings. Sam Darnel look good. Yeah, everything is trending positively for them.

And especially you look around there, you know, Rams are having our issues with Matthew Stafford and, you know, the Seahawks are coming off winning 10 games last year. There should be some excitement there that they take another step in Mike McDonald's second year. Yeah, I guess the, you know, the biggest question is Sam Darnold, right? I really don't mind the play to, okay, you're going to trade Gino Smith or not pay him what he's looking for, and then you get a little bit cheaper with Sam Darnold and younger with Sam Darnold and see what he can do for you as you go about the quarterback situation that way.

And if the offensive line does hold up, I think that Donald can have success. How much of last season do you think was a flash in the pan and how much was for real for Sam Darnold and what we saw in Minnesota, what he did with Minnesota last season? I mean, I think that it mostly, I don't want to say for real, because is he going to finish, you know, fifth and the MVP voting again? Probably not. Fair enough. That's probably not going to happen.

But I do think a lot of the things he showed can repeat themselves. I think that he's not going to be the guy we saw with the Jets and Carolina and all that. I think he's taken a step in his career, and he's going to be a lot better and a viable starting NFL quarterback. It doesn't mean he's necessarily going to replicate what he did with the Vikings again last year, but he could still be a good quarterback, and I don't think he's going to regress that far. I think people, those final two games really messed with people's heads when it came to Sam Darnold. And they just decided at that point, well, that's who Sam Darnold is. He's back to being terrible.

Well, yeah, he had two rough games where the Vikings didn't block for him very well against, you know, a Lions team that went 15 and 2 and a Rams team that was hot as anybody by the end of the season. I don't really sit there and say, I think Sam Darnold was just, you know, the clock struck midnight or anything like that for him. I just think he had two tough games against two tough opponents, and that can happen. I think he's a perfectly reasonable quarterback. I think Gino is probably better, but

he's older, like you said, more expensive. They got a draft pick back when they traded Gino. So I understood the move. I have no problem with it. I think Sam Darnal's going to be just fine. I don't think Sam Darnal is going to be the Seahawks issue. It's just they're going to have the block for him. And it just seems like we've been talking

about this for 15 years of the Seahawks. If the offensive line does this. If the offensive line's good, the Seahawks are probably going to be okay because Sam Donald doesn't function well under pressure. We all know that. Like that's most quarterbacks, especially Darnold. So I think the Seahawks are better on the offensive line. I think that's a huge deal for them. We'll see. We'll see because again, the Seahawks haven't been able to figure out that offensive line in a long, long time. You know, the Rams are supposed to give an update on Stafford today, but I'm not sure I'm expecting anything different than what we've got

over the last couple of weeks, Frank. And, you know, it just makes me feel like this NFC West is absolutely wide open right now. We're expecting the Niners to bounce back, but that roster is aged. And I got some questions of if that defense can still be elite as they have been in the past. The Rams without Stafford, Jimmy G. should be okay under center, but they're going to need Stafford to reach their ceiling. And the Cardinals, you know, kind of like the Seahawks, I could see it going either way for for the Cardinals this year.

How do you handicap the NFC West? Yeah, and I think you put it really well. I think the key to all of it is Stafford. Like you said, like, you know, when training cast started, he wasn't ready, I was like, okay, there's no big deal. I mean, it's Matthew Stafford, he'll be there. Now you're like, well, we're kind of deep in August, that we still haven't seen Matthew Stafford and gotten any positive results.

So you get a little bit more nervous. I really don't have many doubts that Sam to, or that Matthew Stafford's going to be there on opening day. He'll play. And he's a tough dude. He'll, I fully assume he'll, but will he be anywhere close to 100%? That's what I worry about. Or can he stay 100% through the season? I don't know that either.

I just think that there's a lot more to just, hey, is Matthews Ever going to be on the field week one? There's more nuance there. If he is, the Rams are a really, really good football team. Their defense came along great at the end of last year. So we'll see. But the Rams have some questions. Like you said, the 49ers, The 49ers lost double-digit games and had probably the worst off season of any NFL team.

So, yeah, I expect them to bounce the back because the injuries won't repeat and stuff like that. But I don't know for sure that the 49ers could be great. Like you said, the Cardinals could be good. Like, I don't doubt that. I do have questions about Kyler, though. I don't know what his ceiling is anymore. He kind of just is what he is. So, yeah, the NFC West is really, really fascinating because you can make a case for all four teams winning it.

You make a case for all four teams finishing the last place. It really is wide open. It does feel that way, especially with the Stafford injury. Talking NFL with Frank Schwab, he's the co-host of Yahoo Sports NFL podcast Inside Coverage. And one of the other performances from this slate of preseason action that I think caught people's attention around the league, Caleb Williams, for the Bears in an impressive outing. I know we got some praise from new head coach Ben Johnson afterwards as well. And that's a really interesting situation, right, with a quarterback who, of course, was the number one overall pick. and now you get one of the most in-demand offensive minds in the NFL and Ben Johnson coming over to be the head coach.

And again, it's preseason, so all those caveats. But what do you think reasonable, realistic expectations are for that partnership in Year 1 in Chicago? Yeah, and it's funny because, you know, I mean, a lot of the reports have been negative. Like, we had heard, like, oh, there's so many mistakes. And Ben Johnson's yelling at all those guys every day. And Caleb doesn't look sharp. And then you go out in a game situation, they look fantastic. They really, really did look sharp.

I mean, just the timing of everything, it just looked good. And I think the Bears fans should be very excited. Now, the caveat for them is they play in the toughest division of football. It is. I don't know, you know, how to get the Bears to 11-12 wins playing against lions and the Packers. I'm so high in the Vikings. So that's more of a problem for them, I think, than anything Ben Johnson is going to do or not do. It's a very interesting situation there. We'll see. I think that overall, though,

Ben Johnson's going to be good for Caleb Williams. There's no way he's not. He's a great offensive coach. He's a perfectionist. They got great talent around him. If Taylor Williams can't do it with this setup, then we have to have serious questions about whether maybe the Bears just made the wrong pick. But I don't think that to be case. I think we saw yesterday. He's going to be fine. He looked good. He played well. It's just one of those things where they could be a really, really good football team and still be nine wins just because the rest of the division is so tough. We'll see, though. Look, first week is Vikings at Bears. And that's one of the most interesting games on the entire week one slate because obviously we have questions about

the Vikings, post-arnold. They have questions about the Bears. I think we're going to learn a lot, maybe the most out of all the 16 week-one games. We'll probably learn the most out of that one because those two teams are so interesting. A couple of the interesting contract situations that are still playing out here through preseason. Obviously, the Cowboys with Micah Parsons. And then similarly, the Bengals, you know, Trey Hendrickson is named pop it up in trade rumors and all that. And it's just like, I think of the Bengals, I see what a great offense. It's like, you're going to trade your one great D-Linman.

You've already got a bad defense. It just, if you're trying to be competitive, how do you trade Trey Hendrickson right? Now, there's no way the Bengals are actually going to trade him, are they? I don't know. I thought, it's the Bengals and are being stubborn about this and they're not paying him. And I don't know how their defense is better without Trey Hendrickson, I'll tell you that. And by many statistical measures, Joe Burrow just had the greatest season of all time for a quarterback who didn't make the playoffs. And what's changed?

Other than being worse, a defense without Trey Hendrickson, I know that chain coordinators, but I don't. don't know that Al Golden coming over from Notre Dame is fixing everything. That's one thing they can make a point to to to say, sure, our defense's going to be better. We got Notre Dame's defense coordinator. Well, okay, like maybe. He's a good, good coach for sure, but I don't know necessarily that that fixes everything. And to miss the playoffs last year, Joe Burrow playing at an MVP level was just a crime. I mean, how do you do that?

I haven't seen that. And really, if you look through, I wrote about this extensively in my Bengals preview, that doesn't happen. It just does not happen where a quarterback plays as well as Joe Burrow did last year and you missed the playoffs. What happens if you do it again? I think that point, Zach Taylor has to get fired. If it's his fault or not that they didn't build a good defense, I don't care. It would be stunning.

And at one point, at what point does Joe Burrow look around and say, is this organization getting me where I need to go? I'm a Hall of Fame quarterback, and we're missing the playoffs three straight years. I think there's a huge season just that way for the Bengals of, can you get to the playoffs? Can he do something? Can you show that the defense isn't as bad as we think it's going to be? And again, trading Trey Hendrickson really doesn't fix anything. Like, he's the NFL sack leader. So I don't know.

I'm very interested to see how that all turns out. Well, and it's so wild, too, because it's not just that you have the quarterback playing at an MVP level. He's thrown to Jamar Chase, who's arguably the best receiver in football. Like, that's a combination to build around that NFL teams spend decades. praying to have, right? That level of quarterback throwing to that level of wide receiver. And you would think it would just demand so much urgency from the team to say, okay, we got to do whatever we can to build a competent defense to support these two.

And instead, I think the word I just use urgency, it's totally absent from how the Bengals seem to be going about doing this. Yeah, and you look and like I said, like the Bengals missing the playoffs with Burrell playing an MVP level, almost unprecedented, right? and most I think most teams would have said we got to make major changes we got to shake things up Bengals basically ran things back I mean it's practically the same team

with a different defensive coordinator and maybe without T. Hendrickson and I get it like they had to figure out the T. Higgins situation with it dragged their feet on they had to pay Jemar Chase which they dragged their feet on you do that and I fully support that keep T. Higgins, Jamar Chase, Joe Burrow together

fine, great. I do understand it also presents challenges and been paying a defense and building a defense. But, yeah, you're right. The urgency has just not been there. And at some point, I do wonder, Joe Burrow gets fed up with this. It just says, I want out. Like, that's more of an NBA thing that we see in the NFL.

We don't see a lot of superstars just say, I need to win a championship, and I can't do it here. You do see that in the NBA a lot, and I get that. But I wonder, Joe Burrow, if you miss the playoffs again, and he throws another 45 touchdowns, I'm Joe Borough, I'm looking around saying, I need to change of scenery here because this ain't happened. So we got the last game of the week two preseason slate tonight,

which does feature the Cincinnati Bengals. Then we're into week three, the final preseason week. Are there any burning questions you still have position battles, starting QBs, things like that that you're curious to see play out over the remainder of the preseason here? Yeah, it was so funny. I saw the yesterday that, hey, Kevin Stefansky is going to reveal who starting quarterback's going to be like,

hey, yeah, we all know, Kevin. I guess it's good to be Chuck Wacko. There's no mystery involved here. I think stuff, not really, there's not a lot that's really truly unsettled. Like, we could dig into the weeds and be like, I don't know who the Dolphins number two running back is, and I don't know. Like, mostly I think we're there, like Saints starting quarterback. Who cares?

They're going to win three games, no matter who they start a quarterback. It really doesn't matter. So I think we're to a point where I think most things are settled or looked that way. If there's one thing, if there's one thing that I could see being a big surprise between now and the start of the season, it's if the Giants just say, you know what, Jackson Dart's our best quarterback, let's just play it right away. Because that's what I see. When I watch preseason, look, Russell's had a great, great career. Trust me, I'm a Wisconsin alum.

I was Washington since college. He's been fantastic. But at this point, Russell Wilson's career, he just is what he is. He's a very low-ceiling quarterback. You know what you're getting out of him, which is fine. but the Giants maybe want to swing for something bigger. And again, like ironically, isn't that what the 2012 Seahawks did? They had Matt Flynn, they had Tavares Jackson,

but they said, you know what, this rookie Russell Wilson's our best quarterback. Let's just play them. Let's just see. I don't know that the Giants are there yet. I don't know that they have that mindset with Jackson Dart. But both times I've seen Jackson Dart on the field, I said, that's our best quarterback right now. I know they simplified things for him into no huddle the other night,

but he looked good. He is delivered every time he has played, and I just wonder, and if not, and now it was starting week one, which I really don't think the Giants would do. I just don't think they're that type of an organization to make that bold of a move.

But if not week one for Jackson Dart, maybe the thought, you know, maybe they came into the preseason thing, okay, Jackson Dart will play by week 12. Well, maybe now that's like week four. You know,

I just think that he has done so much to impress everybody that I don't think they can keep them on the bench very long. Frank really appreciate the time and yeah like you we can't wait for week one of the real season to start as well thanks for doing this absolutely appreciate it that is Frank Schwab

from Yahoo Sports covering the NFL co-host of the Yahoo Sports NFL podcast inside coverage all right we didn't have a chance to get to it in what happened in the first segment with so much going on here locally but we're going to talk baseball in the next segment with Josh Goldberg

so we can run through the weekend for the Jays and the Mariners here quickly. And yesterday, Jays lose 10-4 against the Rangers, but still take two out of three in the series. And the story here, and we can get to it in a second, I'll give you, I'll give everyone the standings update and what happened for the Mariners as well. But the story really is Jose Barrios and what he's doing and not doing on the mound for the Jays on a regular basis. But anyways, Boston lost yesterday as well. So the Jay is still enjoying a five game lead atop the AL East. Mariner's played in Williamsport in the Little League classic against the

Mets. They lose seven three. They drop the three game series and all of a sudden a little bit of a speed wobble maybe here for the Mariners. They had that eight game win streak. Now they've lost four out of five since it was snapped and they do find themselves one and a half back of Houston in the AL West. Both teams, anyway, you slice it though. You look at the landscape in the American League, heavy, heavy favorites to make the playoffs. And then we'll see what transpires once they get there. Cal Raleigh, another home run, his 47th homer, one off the record for a catcher,

which is 48 by Salvador Perez a few years ago. And he signed a toilet seat. He signed a toilet seat as well. By the way, did you see, we'll talk about my beloved Little Mountain a little later in the show, but they were interviewing one of the players from Australia and one of the players from Little Mountain yesterday on ESPN before the game. And, you know, it's the Little League classic, right?

So the Mets players are going to be there. and the Mariners player is going to be there and they get to mingle with the kids. It's pretty cool. And they ask the Australian player, hey, like, who's, who's autograph are you most excited to get? He's all Juan Soto, for sure. He said it with an Australian accent, but I'm not going to do that. You're not going to pull a sat. No, the Spern.

Yes. The ESPN reported, oh, that's great. Awesome. And he turns to the Little Mountain player, I think was Misha Lee. And what about you? Sited for Soto, too. And he goes, yeah, he's overrated. It's torched Juan Soto on National TV.

And he was like, no, I want to get Cal Raleigh's autograph. It makes sense, Vancouver guy, close to Seattle. Anyways, I did see the big dumper sign in the toilet seat. Pretty incredible. For somebody who used to work at it, I don't know if you know this about me. I used to work at a sports remember. I did know that. And I saw some weird things.

Get signed. There was one regular who used to bring in jock straps. Oh, my gosh. For hockey players to sign on a regular base. Not used ones. Like, he'd go and buy. Oh, no. He would go and buy a new jock strap for X,

player to sign every time they would come out. Like, how are you displaying jockstress? That's the weirdest thing. Anyways. So, that's crazy. Wasn't totally surprised to see a toilet seat show up for Cal Raleigh yesterday. So somebody came into your memorabilia

shop and was trying, hey guys, I got this signed toilet seat with the Cowrally they'd pay their 30 bucks for what what are you assessing? Like, I'm picturing like antique road show here. Dan Riccio getting out the glasses. This is a unique piece, you know, it's definitely, do you have the authentication for this?

You definitely get bonus points for having a unique piece. It's one of one. How many toilet seats is Cal Raleigh, has Cal Raleigh actually signed as the big dumper? Should also point out he's on pace for 60 home runs still. I know there's been a little bit of a slump here recently for Raleigh, but still, the power is still there. And, I mean, 60 home runs is, I know, you know, it kind of got lost a little bit in the heights of the steroid era, right? and Barry Bond's going over 70 and you know we all remember the McGuire

Sosa year but then like Sosa hit 60 home runs I think like twice more after that or so it got a little bit of its luster was lost but 60 is still just a crazy number if he gets to it 60 in today's day and age is wild for a catcher I think there's only like five catchers in history players in history

that have reached 40 homers while playing catcher regularly through the season so Cal Raleigh being at 47 already and still on pace for 60 is just a freak. Like it's absolutely freakish what he's been able to do. And I know the Mariners kind of expecting a little bit of a speed bump after their eight game win streak. You hope that they can write the ship a little bit and get back on track and chase down Houston for the AL West title because I think it's going to matter a ton for them to get that division lead if they can. And it's, you know, I think the.

Mariners, I know it hasn't been great over these last few. But after the deadline and looking at their lineup, looking at their rotation, the back end of their bullpen, they might be the most complete team on paper in all of the American League. So if it does come together, I'm really interested to see what kind of heights the Mariners could reach and probably be the team. The one team in the playoffs, I wouldn't want the Blue Jays to go up against. because I really, really fear what the Mariners could be. Yeah, and the strength of the starting pitching in particular, and as you said, the back end of the bullpen,

really, as we know, sets you up to have success in the postseason. And speaking of that, I mentioned, and we'll get into this more of Josh Goldberg in a minute on the other side. But the story, really, from the Jay's loss yesterday against the Rangers, Jose Barrios, another tough outing. And, you know, his outing before this one, he technically didn't give up any runs. But if you watched that one, he really battled to get through five and a third.

He had the bases loaded at one point. It was a scoreless appearance for him, but it was tough. And then before that, you know, he's given up a lot of runs on a regular basis recently here. And with the options the Jays have, and you look at it with Max Scherzer really rounding into form. And we all know what his resume is and his postseason experience. And then Shane Bieber, who it sounds like at some point this week will take the mound for the Js in a major league game. All of a sudden you look at and you think, Jose Burrios, I know, you know, they signed you to a big deal. and you're making a lot of money,

I don't know if there's going to be a spot for him in the playoff rotation at this point. Yeah, he even, unprompted, he talked a little bit about the playoffs when he was asked about the six-man rotation. Like, I don't know how it's going to work in the playoffs, but it's like, buddy, I don't think you're making the playoff roster right now,

unless you're moving to the bullpen. Bullpen, probably. Although they've got some good arms in the bullpen. It's tough right now for Burrios, because he just can't get guys out, right? Like the deception isn't there. you saw it yesterday as you know that that fourth inning really started to go haywire for him or fifth inning and it's just you can't put guys away yeah and when when that's happening guys are obviously

seeing you very well and until you fix that it's going to be really hard to put you out there against the best offense in baseball the way specifically he's struggling and he's not missing bats and he's giving up the long ball it's like those are the two absolute last things you want in the playoffs those are those are what will kill you in the playoffs so it's going to be a tough road for Jose Barrios to kind of play himself back into that picture. But we will talk more baseball and Blue Jays next with Josh Goldberg. He covers the team for Jays Nation and the DFA pod. Keep your what we learn submissions coming in as well. Of course, that's coming up at 830. It is Halford and Brough here on Sportsnet, 650.