Halford & Brough in the Morning - What Could The Canucks Get In A Trade For JT Miller?

Episode Date: January 20, 2025

In hour three, Mike & Jason talk the latest Canucks news including Saturday's big win and a potential JT Miller trade package with Canucks Talk host & The Athletic Vancouver's Thomas Drance (1:33), plus the boys tell us what they learned (27:00). This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

And what we just have to call Thomas Drance Erotica. Thomas Drance Erotica. Corsi. Thomas Drance Erotica. Expect the goals. Thomas Drance Erotica. Todd's model. Thomas Trance Erotica.

Regression. Thomas Trance Erotica. P.D.O. Thomas Trance Erotica. Oh, Thomas Drance, Veronica. 803 on a Monday. Happy Monday everybody. Halford Brough, Sportsnet 650. Halford and Brough of the morning is brought to you by Vancouver Honda, Vancouver's premier destination for Honda customers.

They have a friendly, knowledgeable staff that can help with anything you're looking for, sales, financing, service, or parts. We are in hour three of the program. Thomas Drance from the Athletic Vancouver and Canucks Talk right here on Sportsnet 650. He's going to join us in just a moment here to kick off hour three. Hour three of this program is brought to you by Campbell and Pound Real Estate Appraisers. Trust the expertise of Campbell and Pound. Visit them on the internet at Campbell-Pound.com today.

We are coming to you live from the Kintec studio. Kintec footwear and orthotics, working together with you in step. To the phone lines we go, Thomas Drantz joins us now in the Haliford and Brush show on Sportsnet 650. What up Drantz? Gentlemen, good morning. Drantz, what's the top of your mind right now with this team? Well, I mean, obviously the top of mind has to be the scuttled trade with the New York Rangers.

I thought that overshadowed a pretty solid Canucks performance on Saturday night against the Edmonton Oilers and I think it should have. You know, the truth is, is that, well, I couldn't get to the bottom yesterday in between various AJ's pizzas and football games of exactly what happened in terms of the package and why exactly it fell apart. I've had some suggestions to me that we're talking about, certainly not Lafrenier and Braden Schneider, but instead sort of more in that like heidel

Ryan Lindgren kind of a bucket in terms of a potential return. Again, I'm not, I wasn't able to confirm why the deal fell apart, but certainly Dolly Wall and I were dropping a piece shortly and it was suggested to us that maybe it was like conditions on the first round pick that might have been involved that caused it to fall apart. Anyway, when you look at sort of that, right, and sort of one of the things that I was checking into was like what changed? Did something change for the Canucks last week to raise their level of urgency, right? In terms of making this deal. And effectively where I think we're at is the answer to that question is no.

The sort of wider, like the wider stance, the wider posture here is just that, you know, I think this organization's reached a point where I don't think they think it's tenable to move forward with this core as it stands. And so I do believe, and of course nothing's done until it's done and perhaps something dramatic alters the organization's thinking on this. But I do believe we're reaching a point where the organization's prepared to reach a transitional step or a more transitional stage of their team building a cycle here. I think the pretty consistent approach we've seen from Rutherford and Alveen, like if you were to draw a through line, it's been to really believe in this core, believe that they can win with this core and then work to

supplement and sort of upgrade the supporting pieces around it while also locking up this core. And I think we're about to hit a significant transition in terms of how the Canucks view, you know, the project, like the project at hand, I think is about to be changed. I think that's what the reports on Saturday indicate. What kind of return do you think the Canucks could get with a JT Miller trade?

Well, yeah, I think one thing that I think is weighing on the minds of Canucks decision makers is that these deals are basically impossible to win. And by the way, we have an example of it. And they have an example of it. And they're well aware of this example. And that's two years ago, they traded Bo Horvath. And they traded him for, I guess, the pick that ended up being 18th overall. That's Axel Sandin-Polickas, who the Detroit Red Wings ultimately selected.

Maybe the Canucks would have gone in a different direction, but you're still talking about like a Tanner Molyendike or a Matthew Wood or like a prospect of that caliber, like a really good prospect. They'd probably be one of Vancouver's top prospects, one of their top three anyway, but not a guy contributing in the NHL today. Anthony Beauvillier, right? Who obviously underwhelmed in this time in Vancouver and ended up being a cap dump that helped facilitate the Zdorov rental.

And Atu Ratu, who's playing well in the American league and looks like a, you know, very strong bet to be an everyday NHL player down the line, but maybe not one with a tough ceiling. I mean, that's that's a deal you lose, right? Like the Canucks had to make a subsequent deal, a subsequent dice roll that they absolutely hit. Like they hit lucky sevens when they traded for Philip Ronek who's been a star level contributor bonafide star level contributor since arriving in Vancouver you know but without the Ronek piece of this that trades not a win and and I think that's something that you know we have to keep in mind when we think about what JT Miller deal looks like or an Elise Peterson deal looks like for that matter although in mind when we think about what a JT Miller deal looks like or an Alias-Peterson deal looks like for that matter.

Although in that case, I think you're talking about something higher end in terms of the return just given sort of Pettersons age and pedigree and potential. Nonetheless, you don't make the Miller trade and make your team better. There's going to be work that this organization needs to do in order to come out like really creative work, subsequent work that they're going to have to do. If they're to deal Miller, you know, get a couple of pieces in a future or a couple of futures in a piece back and actually find themselves in a healthier space in terms of overall talent level.

Right. Like it's not going to be straightforward here and this isn't an organization that wants to or can really afford, frankly, to take a significant step back. I mean, they've got a captain in Quinn Hughes who's playing at a level we've never seen in Vancouver hockey history. And Quinn Hughes after next year is going to become extension eligible at which point, you know, these players these days, right? The these players these days are not not that old, but these players these days, these players, like what I'm saying is

players like Quinn Hughes, right? They have a certain pre-agency level of, you know, authority and leverage a year out from pre-agency, right? That's more than anything, what I'm saying. Like you're going to hit that point in 18 months. The organization knows Quinn Hughes. They know that he wants to win and they definitely want to win with him. And so, you know, I mean, if a, if a Miller trade comes to pass, um, or a

Pedersen trade comes to pass, And I do think the organization has reached a point where they think that they've got to reset this core and move forward with, you know, just one of them, then they're going to be worse. And yet, they're going to they're not going to accept that they're going to need to be good or better than they were this year next year. And so this is a pretty complicated sort of set of circumstances that they're navigating and one that represents a pretty significant departure for a team that entered this season planning to be,

you know, and setting things up to be like one of those contenders that's adding at this point of the year, as opposed to one of those teams that's considering, you know, I don't wanna use term as dramatic as dismantling, but considering subtracting sort of a key, a crucial piece from their lineup in the right way. What do you think of Lafrenier's name being involved in trade speculation?

What could he bring to the Canucks, both good or bad? Well, he's incredible. I mean, I think he's a really, really good player. I think things have gone sour in New York for a variety of reasons, but you know, I think the straight line, like, you know, Lafrenier, because he's a former first round pick and because of the shot and because we've seen

some of the highlights of the chemistry and then the cool stuff that he's able to do with our Temi Panarin, you think of him as a skilled guy, but there's a straight line, sort of two-way panache to his game. Like I almost look at Lafrenier as like, imagine if you could design in the lab the perfect Rod Brindamore winger, and you'd get Alex as Lafrenier. And yeah, I mean, when I say it that way, you can just imagine how

sort of that backtracking and the ability on the forecheck, like how that would play with how talk it wants to play, right? And I think that's pretty appealing. I don't think that that was on the table necessarily when the Canucks and Rangers were deep into discussions over the weekend. Elias Pettersson, we've talked a lot about this. The pressure on him, if Miller is traded and it's kind of looking like that's going to happen, how interesting is that going to be to watch? I mean, very, very for sure.

But I think that pressure exists. Like, yes, the pressure is going to be huge. Don't get me wrong. It's going to, it's going to amplify it, but how much is it going to amplify it relative to him already being at 11.6 million and you know, his performance this season being a key reason why the Canucks aren't in the same place that they were last year, right. And as much as, I mean, I think it's fair to note, for example, that the Canucks

didn't hit at like the same 99th percentile rate with bargain bin free agents that they did last summer, but they still did pretty good. I mean, Sher would and Lankton and more solid value ads. I don't even want to know where this team would be without Lankton. And I'd add to the Debrecht has been solid. Like the breast has been good, a good addition for this roster. I think overall, for sure they do. And you know, they're Debrecht has those stretches where it's quiet around him, but you tend to look at it and it's like, yeah, but they're still out scoring their opponents when he's on the ice and tend to, tends to be helpful

in terms of carrying play. And then he goes on these, you know, 10 game goal scoring binges in which you go eight one-on-one and it's like, okay, that's kind of what you're getting from a really good, you know, sort of, uh, like a top six complimentary winger who's paid fairly for that. And more than anything to the key in free agency isn't necessarily to get the stone cold nuts hit. Although that would be great. The key when you're buying the long term guys, right, is like, are you avoiding the Chandler Stephensons? Like, are you avoiding them? And theyons. And that's huge. That said, when you contrast the success of Cole and

Susie and Bluger and Pugh suitor and there's a door of that and on and on, the Lafferty trade and how he went nuts from a goal scoring perspective in the first half of last year, with the struggles of Danton Heinen and Vinny De Harne like the team did well in pre-agency this year. They didn't go nuke the way they had the previous summer and certainly offense has not been more than the sum of its parts on the ice the way it was a year ago and And those are factors here, but fundamentally ago. And those are factors here, but fundamentally, Pettersson and Miller not being, you know, the consistent game breakers that they were throughout last season. You know, I think it's hard for me to, it's hard for me to suggest that that's not the primary reason why this

team's, you know, tracking to be a mid nineties point team, as opposed to contending to win the division. Like, I think that's the fundamental fact of it. And so, you know, the pressure on Patterson to play like the elite player that he had been up until the last 12 months, I think is going to be enormous either way. Um, you know, the conversation might change for Canucks fans, but I think the internal pressure and the, and the way that sort of Patterson's viewed around the league, around the league, I think that pressure is already amped up. I think it should be amped up.

And in some ways, I feel like that's going to be consistent regardless of what transpires between now and the trade deadline or even between now and the off season. Is it a fool's errand to try and predict which Canucks team we're going to see on a night to night basis? Yes. predict which Canucks team we're going to see on a night to night basis? Um, yes. Yeah. Well, you know what though, the more, the more stacked against them, the deck is the more likely you are to get one of those Edmonton performances.

Like when you think about those Miller rumors, when you think about how Edmonton had been playing coming into that game, you know, the week that they just had with like the comeback win in Colorado, they beat the Ohio, like they're literal who's who of the best teams in the West. And then you think the Canucks like rumored to be trading their best player who was informed earlier in the day that he might not play at all because the trade was closed. It's just like, oh man, they are hooped tonight. And then of course they come out and have their best first period of the year. And honestly, it was kind of similar in Toronto a little bit where, you know,

they can't get out of Raleigh, right? They played one of their most, one of their, like I actually think that Carolina game, when we're talking about sort of what we've seen from the Canucks in the last five games, I know that the LA game, cause it was on home ice and the Winnipeg game, cause it was just so dispiriting,

will take sort of the front seat. But the offensive performance that they put together in Carolina might still be their worst performance of the year. I mean, might honestly, might be the worst offensive performance I've seen from any team this season and maybe for several seasons. It's like, it was just completely feckless.

And so, I think that belongs up there on that mountain crush more of unfortunate Canucks performances. So they're coming off that and then they go into Toronto and you're just like, oh boy, what's tonight going to look like? And then of course they put together one of those, you know, classic three nothing wins against a bad team or sorry, against a good team. Because the Canucks do these three nothing wins or three one wins against really good

teams here and there where you can sort of see the shape of what of what this is supposed to look like and so often did look like last year and that Toronto game was a hallmark so I think the best way to predict what we're going to get from this Connex team is take whatever your mood is or your your expectations are and whenever they're at their lowest ebb they should actually be at their highest and whenever they're at their highest ebb they should actually be at their lowest. We've already moved past the Mount Rushmore of bad performances. Now we're onto the Mount Rushmore of performances where everything's going to turn itself around.

So we've got the Toronto one was I was like, this is it. This is where we take off. We finally figured it out. We're going to go. And then LA and Winnipeg happened. Florida. Florida was one. Florida was a good one.

Yeah. The great part about the four nothing win over Florida at home was it then followed up by a terrible five one loss to Boston at home, which was then followed up by a great three one win over Colorado. But you know, those games, there was a tell in those games. One of the games was, correct me if I'm wrong here, It was like the Mac sasson show. Was that the Florida game? Like it wasn't their best forwards leading the way. Let's put it that way. Sure.

Or the keeper Sherwood show against Nashville or the, yes, that was fun too. You know, you've had a lot of those, right? You've had a lot of those where Vancouver's sort of depth forwards are able to do the job. And you know, the forward depth should be a strength of this team and has been for long stretches of the season. And yet I still sort of look at it and feel like, and, and, and, you know, you had those, those stretch of games where like Phil DiGiuseppe was playing with Miller and LaCaramaque was playing with.

Pedersen and we all know what's happened to Niels Hoeglander over the course of this year, although I think he's been coming on in the new year and on and on and it's just like, as much as forward depth, as much as the forward group is a strength of the team and has been some nights, like don't they feel multiple top six forwards short some nights? I think they do, honestly, especially when you look

at what they're generating. Yeah. pull top six forward short some nights? I think they do, honestly, especially when you look at what they're generating. Yeah, they're top two centers. It's because on a weekly basis, you'll get a performance where it's like, this team is so far away from being competitive to, we're totally winning the Stanley Cup this year, to I can't believe what I'm watching tonight, to they're so back,

we're so back, and it just fluctuates. Like you said I can't even buy into the theory that when they're at their lowest ebb you should expect a better performance because that's what I thought they were gonna get after Winnipeg like Winnipeg was such a beating and then they came back home and I'm like if there's gonna be any game where you can kind of get it back on track it's against the low of like, a fellow low event partner in the Kings where it's like the handshake agreement at the beginning.

Like we're not going to do anything tonight. We're just going to skate. I actually wanted to, uh, ask to answer a followup question Miller's performance in that Kings game was so off and frankly, it was like, it was like a bizarre performance that, but you kind of suggested otherwise that the wheels were maybe already in motion to change the mix of the group and to do a

you know, a significant renovation of the group. Do you think it is possible though that that Kings game was the final straw? It would make sense. I know Elliott Friedman was suggesting it on the 32 Thoughts podcast. I sort of thought it was when I was sort of making my calls yesterday. That was kind of a working thesis I began with, but I honestly, I was told no. I specifically was like, did something change on Thursday or Friday?

I was told no. I think this organization has looked at it I think they've shared the frustrations of the fan base with the inconsistency and honestly I think there's a sense and this doesn't guarantee anything by any means but I think there's a sense that you know that it's a product of a lack of chemistry, like something that can't be fixed necessarily and might need to be fixed by changing the mix in the room, a mix on the roster. And you know, I think it's... When I think about it though, like I think about like the Kings are a perfect team to bring up because they've been without

doubt all year. They have objectively less talent and juice than this Vancouver Canucks team does on their roster. Right. And you know, night to night, night to night, they are one of the best five on five teams in hockey. They're so dialed in terms of how they play. They don't have the most talent. They don't have the most talent.

They don't have the most finishing talent. Their ceiling might be winning three games against the Edmonton Oilers in the playoffs. And in fact, I think we think that's likely, but the gap, the gap in sort of reliability day to day between the Canucks and the, and the Kings. I mean, I think I come back to it this way and just think about like, this is a pretty talented group about like, this is a pretty talented group, right?

This is a pretty talented group of players. Um, do I think they're there? Do I think they have a contender ceiling? And not without help on the back end, not without help on the probably upfront, to be totally honest with you too. And not without much better luck than they've had over the course of the season. But if this is ultimately how it ends with the organization being like, we, we, this, this group can't work together.

I just feel like that's going to be something we look back on as a, as a tremendous shame, like a tremendous missed opportunity from a group that, you know, I think I doubted all along and then thought they got a lot closer to contention last season than I ever imagined previously. Right? And look, it'd be easy for me to at this point just be like, I told everybody this group wasn't the one, but it's like, you know what?

They got really close. Like they got close enough that I changed my mind that I was like, you know what? I probably had this wrong. This group can play a better level of structured hockey than I'd ever previously imagined. And for it to then fall apart this quickly and to this point where the organization itself is looking at this and saying we can't win with all of these guys together and we might need to consider making a pretty drastic change even if we're sort of backed into a corner of making a deal that we quote unquote lose on paper. Yeah, I mean, that to me is a damn shame

for a franchise that's had a lot of them. I think this ranks pretty highly in terms of just spoiled potential. Dr. Answer, always fun chatting with you. I'm sure we'll chat again probably later this week. Hope you had a good vacation. Well, you're back. You're back in it now.

You're back in it, buddy. Buckle up for a busy week, pal. Talk later. Um, a few people texting in just about the whole notion of, you know, if you trade JT Miller, you're gonna probably lose the trade in terms of talent. you're going to probably lose the trade in terms of talent. But I'm not anti analytics. I think there's something to be said for looking at a team

and trying to, for lack of a better way of putting it, counting up the talent. And I think that says a lot about a team quite often. Talent is very important, obviously. But I think in all sports, but maybe especially hockey, like your willingness to play as a team and to get everyone on the same page and you don't have to like each other, but you have to

respect each other and you have to be willing. And this is the most important thing to sacrifice for each other. And even if the Canucks trade JT Miller and in the talent category, they lose the trade, I'll be very curious to see if they actually start playing better hockey or at the very least more consistent hockey.

Because this thing has been, the word distraction often gets tossed around a little too loosely, but this thing has been a distraction. And I'm sure it's, you know, it just the times on the bench when Takeda's had to talk to Miller and, you know, like, you can only imagine what's gone on behind the scenes. Sure.

Right? I'm sure we haven't seen, like we've seen the tip of the iceberg, I think, about what's going on in this team. And whether it's Miller's fault or not, or others are, you know, if he is around the problem and he's part of the problem, you know, I do wonder if the connects trade them, how they will respond.

Okay. A quick reset here before we go to break a couple of things I need to pass along. One, the big football party at the Clayton public house sports net six 50 and the Clayton are throwing a big football party on Sunday, February the 9th. Join us at the Clayton public house in Surrey

and watch the game on 16 TVs and two giant projectors. The Clayton features four separate rooms to watch the game. The Clayton Public House. Good food, good people, good times. Book your table now by emailing info at the Clayton Pub dot com. Also, Sportsnet 650 is presenting this year's JCC Sports Dinner on Wednesday, February the 12th, the Hyatt Regency, Vancouver, featuring this year's guest speaker, Super Bowl champion, Richard Sherman. To find out more, go to jccsportsdinner.com for tickets

and everything else that you need to know about this year's dinner, Wednesday, February the 12th, the Hyatt Regency, Vancouver. We're gonna go to break, we're gonna come back, we're gonna do what we learned, we're gonna do ours, we're gonna read yours, it's your chance to be on the radio. Dunbar Lumbertex line is 650-650 hashtag them WWL. You're listening to the Halford and Bref show on Sportsnet 650.

Hey, it's Mick Nazar. Have your say and join me on the People's Show with big takes and even bigger bets weekdays three to four on Sportsnet 650, or wherever you get your podcasts. It's what we learn time. It's what we learn time. It's what we learn time. On the show. 834 on a Monday. Happy Monday, everybody. Halford Brough, Sportsnet 650.

Halford Brough of the morning is brought to you by Vancouver Honda, Vancouver's premier destination for Honda customers. They have a friendly, knowledgeable staff that can help with anything you're looking for, sales, financing, service or parts. We are in hour three of the program. It is what we learn. Time hour three is brought to you by Campbell and Pound real estate appraisers. Trust the expertise of Campbell and Pound. Visit them on the internet at Campbell-Pound.com today. What we learned from the Halborough side of things, Jason's going to kick us off. Jason, what did you learn over the last 72 hours in sports? Well, I knew this all along, but just in case anyone

needs a reminder, there's a rather big college football game tonight. It is the national championship between Notre Dame and Ohio State. Ohio State is an 8.5 point favorite and it's going to get a lot of attention in the United States today and parts of Canada. But I think overall, they better pray that this is a good game tonight because overall, I think the college football playoff, and this is the first year that it's been expanded to 14

teams, was it 14 teams or 12 teams? 14, whatever, doesn't matter. That it's been, it's been 12 teams. It was, it's been a disaster, I think. I am going to watch tonight and I'm going to do it begrudgingly. Yeah. I actually don't have much interest in Notre Dame versus Ohio State. I have a dear friend who's a diehard fighting Irish fan.

I'm not going to watch it because of them, but like, I, I understand that there are people that will be invested in this. I am watching this begrudgingly because I think that they have somehow managed to mangle an otherwise fine product, which was the end of the college football season and the playoff. And I understand that the bowl system that they had previously was imperfect, but this to me has been such a dud. It's been so underwhelming. They got it entirely wrong. The seating was wrong wrong. The, the, the seating was wrong. They need to figure out the seating was wrong. There's no way that Boise state should have had a

first round by. There was no way that all the teams that got the first round buys were all underdogs on the betting line going into that second round. I mean, no sense whatsoever. Yeah. I get it. It's tough because they go back and forth between,

um, you know, people say, well, they favor the teams from the SEC, right? Like they play the best football. Yeah, that, but that's the thing, right? And they're, they're almost scared of disrespecting the smaller schools. They are. Right.

They're scared of disrespecting the schools that go, you know, undefeated or only one loss, but then you look at their schedule and you're like, well, you know, that's not the toughest schedule. They don't have, I understand that the sort of demarcation of former conferences and the sort of reinvention of it is going to make for more balanced competition but it still remains that SEC plays big boy football and a lot of other people don't and you can try and juke SEC and the Big Ten and you can try and juke the formula and do whatever you want but this was proof that the juke

that they did did not work because the games have not been remotely close to good enough or compelling enough outside of what watching Bert Auburn miss a kick for Texas against those Texas, Arizona state. Like that was, that was the one that was really compelling. Yeah. Outside of that, it's been a tough slog.

It's been too long. There's been too many games. There's been too long. There's been too many games. There's been too many teams competing. It's January 20th and we're wrapping up the college football season. So ESPN is reporting that as of this point, nobody's pushing for a 14 team bracket. So that's why I got confused as 12 right now.

There wasn't necessarily an in-depth discussion of the seating process, but talks were held about the value of having the four highest ranked conference champs earn first round buys and that's where, you know, something like Boise State, um, getting a first round buy might be taken off the table. At any rate, uh, that game is on tonight.

If you're looking for something to watch on TV, give us a moo cow on that laddie. Uh, I'll do my next. I learned that I'm not the only one out there. A little bit upset at the favorable calls that the Kansas city chiefs get with regularity on route to another AFC championship. But this person who is audibly displeased has a little bit more

clout than I do. It's none other than Super Bowl champion, Hall of Fame quarterback, and now one of the top analysts in the game, Troy Aikman. Troy was salty during Saturday's game between the Kansas City Chiefs and the Houston Texans and what he saw as a number of calls that went in the favor of the Kansas City Chiefs in particular, the quarterback Patrick Mahomes. You would have thought that as a fellow quarterback,

Troy would have been on board, but no, no, two pieces of audio here. The first one is after the third quarter roughing the passer penalty. This was the second one of the game, but this one came in the third quarter and this was the one you were talking about earlier, Bruff, where Mahomes did the really late slide and almost drew a roughing the passer penalty. Here's what Troy Aikman had to say about that. Personal foul, unnecessary roughness, defense number 39. She's to your penalty. You know, he's trying to draw the penalty.

You see that rather than just run out of bounds, he slows down. And that's been the frustration, and I get it, I understand it. That's been the frustration for these defensive players around the league. Jackson Mahomes brother wasn't done there though. In the fourth quarter, he tried again to draw another roughing the passer penalty. This time, his other favorite trick where he speeds up and then slows down, looks like he's going out of bounds

and then he speeds up again, tries to draw a penalty as he's going out of bounds. And he tries to like jump into the front row. And then a colossal flop. Not on Troy Aikman's watch. Here's what Troy had to say about this one. You don't have the second piece of audio? I was the two.

I played them back to back. I don't know. There was an entirely different one. Okay. It doesn't matter. Oh man. You know what's fun about all of this? The Chiefs have gone from, uh, wow, they're fun to watch. There's so much fun to watch.

If my team can't make it, I hope the Chiefs win to, I hate the Chiefs, I will cheer for anyone to beat the Chiefs. Here's the thing, I don't hate the Chiefs. I've slowly come to the realization that they're going to win another Super Bowl. Their power is too strong. Now they've got Caitlin Clark in the mix as well. It's too much star power. You can't deal with this. And also, I don't know, one of the more- What's that line though from Batman?

You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain? Yeah, I mean, there is that. Don't you think that's that? Like, take what you think out of the equation. You know that there's a lot of people that are in the anybody but KC. I was shocked that Aikman went there during the game.

Like that was one where I was like, usually there's some level of neutrality of the guys calling the game and even the analysts, right? But like, you could tell that he was. Usually they're scared to criticize the refs. Right, you could tell that Aikman was like, this is not okay. The oh come on was my favorite.

Oh come on, it's like me watching the game. But all the cosmic stuff, the stars and the moons have aligned. Also, Travis Kelce has re-emerged as a bonafide threat. Do you know he represented 66% of Patrick Mahomes passing years? That's how good he was. It's good for him, but not good for the

chief's overall offense, I don't think. I think that they will probably do what they've done all year is they'll get just enough offense to win a game. They'll get a few favorable calls cause they are going to be at home against the Bills in the AFC title game. They'll squeak it out at the end somehow,

and they will be back in the dance and they will be back in another Superbowl. I think the Bills are going toFC title game. They'll squeak it out at the end somehow, and they will be back in the dance, and they will be back in another Super Bowl. I think the Bills are gonna win. I don't think they are. Okay. And I know because I saw the script. Hope it doesn't come down to a last second field goal. For the Bills, of course.

Yes. Okay, mook out of that. Ah! Laddie, go ahead. Did you guys miss my What We Learned while I was gone? I did. It was a huge void in my life. Cause this is a very laddy What We Learned.

Okay. An odd situation happening with the St. John's Seedogs of the QMJHL, you guys. Oh man. They have released their star 20 year old goaltender, Charles Edward Gravel. He was tied for the lead in shutouts, like fourth or fifth in safe percentage in the

entire league and they cut him mid game. He had stopped 29 of 30 through two periods, didn't even come back to the bench for the third period. And they announced the next day that he is gone from the roster. They kind of dairy him. So what happened?

Uh, the unconfirmed rumors are that he tore his team a bit of a new one in the intermission because they were getting heavily outshot. He was having a great game, but they, they had been shut out, I think five of the last six games. Why didn't they just give him a 10 game leave of absence? Well, it sucks for him too, especially cause I

don't know, like the rules around 20 year olds an hour after the trade deadline, he might not have anywhere he can go. Like that might be the end of his junior career. That's, that's it. Sounds like he needs to be a better teammate. the rules around 20 year olds an hour after the trade deadline, he might not have anywhere he can go. That might be the end of his junior career. That's it. Sounds like he needs to be a better teammate. These goalies think they're above the law.

They think they're Connor McDavid out there. They do anything they want and there's no consequences. That's consequences. When your team is that terrible at creating offense, I can see why he's a little frustrated. So you're saying they got rid of him because he was a problem in the locker room? Yes, I am saying that and he's a star You can just one of the best players in the league you can just cut guys never happens Wow crazy It's an odd situation too because they also have well now they have one overage spot open on the roster

But they also have two import spots. They just don't use which Unheard of like every team uses their import spot every team. Okay, we can end this convert We don't need to hear about the St. John's Seed Dogs. I do respect someone that gets. Lack of import spots. Yeah, I do, yeah. We're going too far. But I'm just saying, it's quite the odds.

I've never seen anything like this, especially with a 20 year old. Usually you're a little more careful. You don't want to end a guy's career on a sour note. I miss these, buddy. Yeah. I told you it was a very laddy what we learned. That's a very laddy.

If he was Korean, it would have been like perfect. All right, give us some. It's a baseball reference a reference by the way just so we're clear moocow All right, uh a dog you got one I'm hesitant here after the JL goalie one. Yeah, I'm just imagining them cutting the goalie and then he's like, oh now he's playing the Korean baseball Like first base you go to Good Trapper. Okay, I have a quick little one here. American movie theater chain Cinemark hosted a bring your own popcorn bucket day yesterday where anybody who brought a container got it filled with popcorn for only $5.

I saw this. And one guy brought in a filing cabinet, and they filled up the filing cabinet with popcorn, and then he took a picture of it. He's sitting with it at the movie theater, this filing cabinet in front of him. Like those old school metal filing cabinets? Yeah. He's sitting with it in the theater, the filing cabinet in front of him. And one guy brought in a little, like, looks like a bed like a desk like a like a little desk You put next to the bed and fill that up and all sorts of crazy cups and contraptions one guy brought in earned

which hopefully Wasn't previously being used because that would be weird And yeah, I just maybe laugh gave me a chuckle and it was very clever marketing scheme by Cinemark That seemed to be quite successful. What would you what size size popcorn do you get when you go to the movies? This may surprise you, but I'm not a big popcorn guy. Okay. Yeah. I actually don't usually eat a lot during movies.

It's stuck in my teeth. Popcorn is amazing for the first half the bag, and then it becomes a battle. Yes. It's so salty. It's so salty. Yeah, because you lose a bit of the butter. That's why you got to get it double layered sometimes.

Yep, the double layer butter for sure. But if you don't do that. You guys are butter guys, eh? The liquid butter. Grease me up, lady. Real butter. Give me the real butter. I'm willing to spend.

No movie theater has real butter. Whatever. I find that by the end of the bag, I'm just like, well, I paid $30 for this. I'm gonna finish it. They've outlawed the free refill popcorn too. I thought it was just the largest. They call it the Halford rule.

Yeah. Somebody abuse it. We're not naming names. Sir, this is the fourth time. And we're still in the opening credits. You haven't even gone in to see the movie, sir. You're just sitting here eating popcorn. I hated the refill thing though because you had to see the movie, sir. You're just sitting here, eating popcorn. I hated the refill thing, though,

because he had to leave the movie to go get more. Like, who's leaving a movie midway through? Well, that's why I don't like eating. That's why I don't like eating, drinking, and movies, because nothing's worse than having to use the bathroom in the middle of the movie. You always do it right when the biggest scene happens. You miss the best scene.

Is that there's always, like, can you guys, if there's even a hint of needing to go to the bathroom, like, as soon as I feel that, I have to go, because I know that will distract me for the rest of the movie. Yes. You know what I mean? I turn into, like, a six-year-old kid. I'm like, I gotta go. I gotta go. And is there ever a, like...

I think that's one of the few times that I run in my life. That's it? Just... When I leave a theater and you gotta run and you're always alone In the hallways, you know, it's like totally dead. It's just you Running to the bathroom. Yeah, it's kind of freeing actually that must be very humorous for movie theater workers to watch just Yeah, just the guy run in the bathroom as quickly as he can with his file cabinet. Yeah the guy right into the bathroom as quickly as he can. With his file cabinet. Yeah. All right.

Filler up while I'm waiting. Give us a, give us a moocow on that. Let's dip into the Dunbar Lumber text line and print out some What We Learned submissions. What We Learned humanoid submissions brought to you by AJ's Pizza on East Broadway. Try AJ's Bar Pie Pizza's in-house on Thursdays for only $16. You have to wait. It's Monday of course, but Thursday, bar pie in house, 16 bucks. Visit them online at ajays.pizza.

Uh, unsigned what we learned looking at the final four quarterbacks. I learned if your quarterback can't scramble, you can't win. Do you know how many designed runs the Baltimore Ravens had for Lamar Jackson yesterday? Zero. Yeah. Zero. Yeah.

Crazy. I liked, I liked the call on the final, or on the two point conversion. You got to put it in Lamar Jackson's hands. Like I know some people are like, give it to Derek Henry, but I liked the call. Andrews just dropped it, man. You know whose hands I didn't like them putting

the ball in was Mark Andrews hands. Why? Cause he's a tight end, a very reliable. Cause he dropped the ball. Well know whose hands I didn't like them putting the ball in was Mark Andrews hands. Why? Because his tight end is a very reliable. Drop the ball. Well yeah, but I mean. I honestly, all joking aside, because he has been one of Lamar's preferred red zone targets this year. I did. The call was perfect.

I just dropped the ball. I wondered about going to him because he had the fumble. Oh yeah, the fumble. I did wonder if he was suffering from a crisis of confidence at that point. Or he was cold. Or he was just freezing cold. The ball was slick. Because it was both of those things.

I mean, it wasn't a perfect throw, but it's still a throw that you would expect a tight end of his caliber to catch. It would be very tough to put that on Lamar Jackson. Like, you got to catch that. Yeah. Your responsibility at that point is really just secure the catch. But I mean, the game was lost in a lot of ways earlier in the game with all the turnovers. Agreed.

Lamar had a pretty dreadful interception. Uh, it was a second down. It wasn't either, it wasn't like a punt either. Cause you know, sometimes you see a third down, third and long, you just pocket it on the field and gets picked off and it's as good as a punt. But that wasn't, that was second down. Yeah. You know what?

And the ball was sailing and wobbling all over the place. And then Lamar didn't take care of the ball when he dropped the snap. I found. He tried to like move hands. I'm like, what are you doing? Just take care of the ball.

Take a sack if you have to. I found the fumble more egregious for two reasons. One, he had already turned the ball over once and he had talked at length about limiting turnovers. And two, it was a real, um, it was, he, I think he thought there was an opportunity to make a schoolyard play though, like just run around when everyone, everything had broken down.

And that's what's gotten him into problems in the past in the playoffs is trying to make something out of nothing when it's not there. And I was like, if you would just limited the mistakes they would have been fine but it was you know it was the same thing and I was talking to my buddy who's a big Rams fan and he was like yeah it was like a tight game and everything I'm like look the Rams made two errors and gave up three home run yeah like that was it it wasn't that they played horribly but you can't make

those many errors in a game. You just can't. I mean, look at the Bills yesterday. It wasn't like this superhuman performance, but they went out and they executed and they didn't make many mistakes at all. In fact, they made none on offense. Pete Carroll, take care of the ball.

Yeah, it was clean. It's not complicated. So often you look at a game afterwards and you can look at the turnover ratio and whoever won the turnover ratio won the game. Leaf with what we learned. JT Miller may not have played his last game in Vancouver, but he has had his last meal with

satin reach. That's a food poisoning joke. So I did not know going into today's show that that was even a thing, that the food at Roger's Arena was up in question and made a bunch of people sick. But I don't know where to go from here with this other than it may... Because Sat was supposed to be on the show today, right? He was. But he was sick.

He was. Because of the food poisoning. Steve from Burnaby, what we learned, Mark Andrews won the Sam Darnold award this past weekend. Yeah. I it's, it's funny. Like I actually, I really feel for these guys when they have that, you know, less for Sam Darnold cause he just, he like had a bad game overall,

but the moments that will be remembered, like that'll live in infamy, infamy for Ravens fans. You know, what if he caught the ball? And what if he hadn't fumbled the ball? But no, I'm talking about the singular. No, it's not. Yes it is. People will forget that he fumbled the ball.

They're not. They look on the internet. They will in 10 years. Then in 10 years, they will forget that he fumbled the ball and they will talk about the drop. The pressure on the Ravens next year is going to only amplify and the same could be said for the Detroit Lions.

Man, like I'm watching that game and when they were panning the crowd, you know, I know sad fans, it's kind of of, I've got my PhD in it. It's your thing. And that was, I felt badly for them. I know I texted you and you were like, this is hilarious. I'm like, this is great that it's happening.

I'm like, why do you say that? I wanted the Lions to get to the Superbowl. I wanted a Lions-Bill Superbowl. I thought that would have been incredible. And as much as I appreciate Jaden Daniels, and I think he's a terrific young talent, like we might be seeing the birth of the next great superstar in the NFL. Although, you know, let's just calm down a little

bit on that because we've seen other young players have terrific rookie seasons and then they run into trouble, but you know, for me, that was actually disappointing that the Lions came out like that. I kind of regretted texting you that actually. Did you? Yeah. It wasn't like, it was, I used to hilarious in the moment because it was the

clear favorite, uh, you know, fumbling it and puking all over itself. But then when I saw Dan Campbell in the aftermath and I saw this, the pano shots of the crowd and you remember how much heartache and pain that this organization has gone through. And this was supposed to be their shot. This was gonna be the year. Like last year, they showed a lot

and they got to the title game. This game, I'm sure a lot of them went to that game just going, yeah, this will be a win, obviously. Like this will be a party. This will be the party game. We're gonna go to the party game. I Don't even win a game in the playoffs man So is the ideal matchup bills commanders now is that the ideal matchup not the one that I would have but the ideal one I would be more than happy seeing a Eagles Chiefs rematch from two years ago. That was an awesome Again, yeah, I want the bills in there sick of the chiefs. I want the Bills in there. So it's going to

be Eagles and Chiefs. Probably. Yeah. Okay, music means we got to get out of here for today, but we will be back tomorrow. Thank you all for listening. Thank you all for contributing. Signing off for now, I have been Mike Halford. He's been Jason Brough. He's been A-Dog and he's been a laddie. This has been the Halford and Brough Show on Sportsnet 650.