Halford & Brough in the Morning - What Does The Word "Rebuild" Mean To The Canucks?

Episode Date: December 18, 2025

In hour one, Mike & Jason look back at the previous day in sports, they discuss how deep the Canucks' rebuild will actually go (3:00), plus they look ahead to the World Juniors, and also talk a bit of Whitecaps (27:00). This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

You're listening to Haldan-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-na. You're listening to Halford and Brough. Thomas, Farr-wing, Fogg's score! Just in Fogg! Patriot Drive, and then hit Harry. We got on a propelcy-packing score. Carnivore Hagey. Sput it to the netting, close.

Would you be ready to go right now? I'd whoop right now. Would you really? Absolutely. I could go out there and play. Give me a month. I mean, I could go play with anybody. Good morning, Vancouver, 601 on a Thursday.

Happy Thursday, everybody. It is Halford and is Brough at SportsNet 650. We are coming live from the Kintech Studios and beautiful Fairbue Slopes in Vancouver. Jason, good morning. Good morning. Adol, good morning to you. Good morning.

Laddie, good morning to you as well. Hello, hello. Halford and Brough in the morning is brought to you by Sam. and associates. Score a debt freedom hat trick. One, no more interest, two much lower payments and three, financial peace of mind.

Visit them online at sands dash trustee.com. We are in hour one of the program. Hour one is brought to you by North Star Metal Recycling. Vancouver's premier metal recycler pays the highest prices on scrap metal. North Star Metal Recycling, they recycle you get paid.

Visit them in 1170 Powell Street in Vancouver. We are coming to live from the Kintech Studio. Now's the time to maximize the benefits of custom orthotics, Before the year runs out, visit kintech.net. Big show ahead on a Thursday, huge football game tonight. Between the Seahawks and the Rams, we got a lot to get into on the program. Guestless today, it is the Dewick Morning Drive, brought to you by the Duik Auto Group.

It begins at 7 o'clock. Guy Gidowski is going to join the program. He, of course, is the head coach of the Penn State University men's hockey team. He is also the head coach of likely number one pick at the 2026 draft. Gavin McKenna, who starred last night for the Canadian juniors in their warm-up game against Sweden. We'll talk to Guy about McKenna and building this program

at Penn State. Guy Godowsky's going to join the program at 7 o'clock. You know what? He's going to coach another team? Guy? Yeah, yeah. They're going to bring a U.S. collegiate team to the Spengler Cup. Really? Yeah. I had no idea. And he's going to coach that. That's a really cool idea, actually. We can talk to him about that. Guy's going to the Spangler.

Like, I wonder how they're going to do over it. there. I don't know. They're playing against professionals. Yeah, that's really interesting. All right. We got a lot to talk about with Guy Godowsky at 7. That's pretty good.

730, Brady Henderson, our Seahawks, ESPN Insider. It's going to join the program. As I mentioned, game of the year tonight in Seattle, the 11 and 3 Seahawks, hosting the 11 and 3 Rams in a battle for top spot in the NFC and first place overall in the NFC. Seahawks are one and a half point favorites going into this one. We'll set it all up. with ESPN Seahawks Insider Brady Henderson at 7.30. Do you think he'll be able to talk about Puka? Maybe you can talk about Puka's brother.

What happened with Puka's brother? He stole some dude's car. What? What's going on? And the guy plays for the Lakers. It's crazy story. Not Puka's brother. No.

The guy that he stole the SUV from plays for the Lakers. He's a rookie for the Lakers. I don't know. Do they know each other? I don't know if there's some sort of syndicate of like blossoming pro players because Puka's brother briefly played in the NFL. Okay. And do they steal each other's vehicles?

I don't know how it works. Hollywood, man. Hollywood. Anyway, Pook is kind of going crazy. Hopefully he doesn't go crazy on the field tonight against the Seahawks, though, because we need a Seahawks victory there. 8 o'clock, Thomas Drance from the Athletic Vancouver

and Canucks Talk is going to join us. We can discuss, among other things, Dran's latest article on The Athletic, which we did mention yesterday, five reasons to stop worrying about the Canucks wins as the post-Quin-Hugh's rebuild begins. Drans will join us at 8 o'clock for some Canucks talk. Only one giveaway today.

We're slipping as we get closer to Christmas. Only one giveaway today. We have two contests tomorrow, so don't worry about it. $250 gift card to Golf Town. Mom, Dad, can we go to Golf Town? We sure can, son, with this $250 gift card. Holidays are right around the corner, and Golf Town is the perfect gifting destination for the golfer in your life.

Be caller number 5 at 7.30 this morning. 604-280-0-650. That number again, 604-280-6-50. Caller number 5 at 730. will win the $250 gift card to Golf Town. Okay, that's what's happening on the program. Today we've got a lot to get into. So without further ado, Lattie, to tell everybody what happened.

Hey, did you guys see the game last night? No. No. What happened? I missed all the action because I'm losing. We know how busy your life can be. What happened? Missed it?

You missed that? What happened is brought to you by the BC Construction Safety Alliance. Making safety simpler by giving construction companies the best in tools. Resources and safety training, visit them online at BCCSA.ca.com. Okay, I guess the Canucks are going to practice today on Long Island. So there's a few things that everyone will be watching for. And I guess Drance will be at that practice. That's correct.

Because he's on the road. So will Elias Pedersen be a full participant in practice? And part of the line combinations, the speculation, the expectation, was that he would be ready to return for tomorrow's game against the Islanders. And that is why Baines was on waivers, and then he cleared waivers, and I guess he's been assigned to Abbotsford to free up that spot for Pedersen, who was on IR. So that's one thing.

The other thing, and it's become a bit of a talking point here in Vancouver, is Ataturatu going to get back in this lineup. it would seem doubtful for two reasons. Number one, the return of Pedersen, someone's actually going to have to come out of the lineup to make way for Pedersen and also the Connects are on a two-game winning streak. Yeah, and it's interesting because this has become

a debate online, and I went back and forth about this. How much time are we going to really, you know, a lot to the plight of Atu-Ratoo? Right, I mean, he matters because he's on the team. He was one of the big pieces that came to Van Gogh. Vancouver in the Bo Horvach, right? Yeah, like, I'm not really sure he's going to be a needle mover in the future moving forward, even in the not-so-distant future in the present.

But that said, he's still only 23 years old. He just turned 23 in November. And if you look, he does still lead the team in five-on-five points. He's been their leading score in December. That is not someone that you typically drop from the lineup entirely, especially when you're playing Drew O'Connor at one of the center positions. And Max Sasson at the other one. Is it defensive with him?

issues with him that Adam foot doesn't trust him? Is it his speed? The fact that I think it's probably worth noting that Max Sassan is in the lineup and Atu Ratu is not. Max Sassan, fast. Yes. Atu Ratu, you had to work on his skating. Let's just put it that way. That's the advanced hockey analysis

you only get on the Halford & Brough show. One guy fast. One guy fast. Other guy not so fast. But it is worth bringing out because when they signed Sasson to his extension he got a quote and they mentioned to speed in the quote. And I have noticed... He's got speed holes.

Right, a lot of them all over the place. And I did notice that every time Adam Foote, and he doesn't talk about Sass in the time, but they always talk about his speed. And on a team that we've talked about this, not just this year, but previous iterations of the Canucks in recent years, they've never been a fast team.

No. And I actually pointed out, I think it was to Randeep yesterday on the show, against the Rangers in the 3-0 shutout victory at MSG, One of the rare times this season where I test, it looked like the Canucks might have been the faster of the two teams. Now, it's against maybe the oldest team in the NHL and the New York Rangers, but still,

you got to start somewhere when it comes to speed, right? You know what I want to do on Ratu, those? I want to play a clip from Canucks Central yesterday. This is Sat and Bick talking about Ratu, and it's more of a long-term look and a projection, and it's a good point made by Bick about what is Ratu going to be, and it can really speak to what everything's going to look like, as this team continues to move forward,

potentially with a rebuild and moving some more veteran NHL players out. Here's Satin Bik yesterday from Kinnukes Central on Atu Ratu. Ratu is right now, based on his usage being what it is, do you consider him part of the future? Like he is by age, but when you're being utilized the way he is, is he part of the plan? He just feels on shaky ground all of a sudden.

And I don't know if the ground will really start rumbling until there's, a culling of the bodies at some stage and then you see okay now there's an actual pathway because you can make the argument and it's like well it's crowded right now and someone's got to be out the lineup it's like okay I disagree with it but okay but once a sure word goes out and that's one less NHL body once a bluger goes out oh I guess he's not even in right now but a cane goes out and that's another one less NHL body once that starts happening and Ratu is still not playing a certain role that's when the alarm bells are going to start raising because you can't be in a spot where you're

rebuilding and playing him 11, 12 minutes a night. No. You need to commit to the idea to get these guys functional minutes in roles for them to grow. So there's a bit of an interesting jumping off point we can use here is that I think when they acquired

Ratu, the idea was that he would develop into something tangible at the NHL level that the team could use, right? I mean, that's the idea when you get any prospect in the door, is that this guy's going to grow and matriculate, and he's going to be a player force in the future.

But remembering also that this guy, when he was a prospect, was considered a very special prospect at one point, when he was 15 or 16, and then it started to fall a little bit, probably because of his skating. But still, a top 40 pick, I believe he was a top 40 pick, whatever the case, high enough that you would consider him to be he had NHL potential. And now, several professional years into his career, and at age of. 23 where you kind of want to see him at the very least develop into an NHL regular, he's having a hard time making the lineup of the

32nd place team in the NHL. So I think there's a couple different, and Satin Bick touched on one point here, and if we want to pivot to Patrick Johnson's articles over the last couple days about rebuilding, Ratu is an example of a guy where you have high aspirations and hopes for, but the reality is prospects don't always pan out the way you think they're going to pan out, right? It's fair to suggest that when he was acquired, The Canucks had higher aspirations for him than where he's at right now.

Doesn't mean that he won't necessarily get there. But right now, again, he's the fifth C on a team that doesn't exactly have the strongest four C situation right now. One of the four C's isn't even a C. He's a W. Right. And he hasn't gone back yet. You haven't forced him back to the W.

Before we get to Pige's article. Sure. Because that is the big, it's on the big. picture kind of rebuild. Yeah. The Abbotsford Canucks won the Calder Cup last year, right? And everyone was very excited about that. And there's a lot of people that were going to graduate from that team and become

contributors in the NHL. Who? Yeah, right now. So remember at one point where everybody from Abbotsford was playing with the Canucks? Well, those days are long gone. The only guys that are currently on the active roster. from last year's Calder Cup champion or Linus Carlson, Atu, Ratu, and Max Sasson.

That's it. And Ratu's not playing. Yeah. So it's the two guys. And I would suggest that they've been bit contributors. Yeah, not, not, not. I mean, let's face it. Baines has been a disappointment.

I think the, and he's gone now. And I think the, not his career-wise. His career-wise have been very impressive, right? he's continually gotten to a level and people said you're not going to make it and he's kept progressing

and the hope was that he'd do that at the NHL level and he just didn't when he would come into games he just he wouldn't do enough and you would see flashes of the playmaking that we saw in the WHL and in

the HAL but not enough now some of that might have been the role he was playing but But that's the thing about becoming kind of like a bottom six contributor. You have to change your game a little bit and become really good at something else. You know, if he could have become a good penalty killer, I think that would have really helped him out. There was an element of what would you say you do around here with him. Yeah, because he's not going to play a top six role.

Well, I guess sometimes they tried him in that role. He started in a top six role. but didn't work. You know, I like what Linus Carlson has brought at times, and he has 11 points in 30 games, five goals in 30 games. That's not terrible. I think he's got the same issue as Ratu.

He's not that fast. Yeah. You know, and if you're young and you're expected to be adding energy and pace to the lineup, it helps if you're fast, and I think it probably says something that it was Max Sasson, the guy with the wheels, that got the two-year extension.

Yeah, I mean, here's the thing. When Abbotsford went on its run last year, it was a fantastic story, and they were full credit for it. They were, it was a very impressive run. They had a really great second half to the regular season. They had sort of that perfect mix of veteran presences and guys that you thought maybe had a shot at the next level, and they had really good goal tending from our,

Archer CELF. So in terms of that league, they had all the components you needed to be successful. I think maybe a little optimistically, dare I say naively, a lot of us, and I think maybe even myself included, thought that that was going to be a possible jumping off point for these guys to take it to the next level. Yeah. So what you've seen now is, I mean, consider the guys right now who have played games for the Canucks this season, the NHL Canucks, who are now in Abbotsford, right? So it's Baines, Nils Oman, my boy, Joe, the body, Labate, Joel Lechromacki, McKeckern, Mancini, Reichel, Tolapilo, Patera. There's been a lot of guys that have had

sniffs at it and opportunities to try and take advantage of, and it just hasn't worked out. Now you're looking at it, and the only guys from Abbotsford that are hanging around are two bottom six forwards and a guy in Ratu who can't get in the lineup. But I know Dennis and Langley is very irate that we're not calling out the coach for the Ratu situation. Well, I'll read his text here. This is a ridiculous conversation. Ratu is literally leading the team in five on five points. He was starting to pan out. The coach is the problem. I get it. I would like to know from Adam Foote what it is about Atu Ratu that doesn't make him an automatic conclusion into this lineup.

I don't know if what's going to give you an honest question, but I mean, we're just saying like we imagine it's speed. Here's the thing, Dennis, and you wrote the same thing a couple times. You used literally a lot. You're like my kid. He says everything's literal. It's not all literal. Anyway.

But he is literally leading the team. Yes, he used it correctly. He used it correctly. When you're talking about him getting in the lineup, it's like, well, who comes out? And it would be, well, he's got, it would either, probably a one-for-one swap with Sasson. Or you could kick Sasson to the wing and bring out Linas Carlson, maybe? Right. Then that's fair.

Yeah. Or you could move O'Connor back to the wing, but they like that line right now. Yeah, that line is going right now. Now, if Dennis wants to bring up that philosophical point, which is that's great that you like the line of it's Sherwood, Kane and O'Connor. You like that line.

Well, I mean, I've liked it for two games. Yeah, no, no, no, no. I'm saying it's for foot. Yeah, yeah. If foot likes that line, that's great, but to what end? Like, it's two of those guys might not be on the team by the time to trade deadlines around. You don't need to invest a lot of time and effort into giving them chemistry.

because it's not going to matter. Yeah. If you want to grow and develop a player... I wish they'd make some more trades, honestly. I know. I mentioned for them. Pull the trigger on the Sherwood trade. Mm-hmm.

So you can get some more picks and prospects in the door. And that would lead us into this. Pull the trigger on the Sherwood trade. Pull the trigger on a Vander Cain trade trade. They're probably waiting for a trade deadline, are they not? Maybe. Maybe. Yeah.

Well, the... Increase the value. No. The way the huge thing happens. The Canucks would like to do it right now, I think. I think the Canucks would like to do it right now, but it's the other team. that are like, we would prefer to wait until the deadline because, you know, we don't know what's going to happen in the next few months.

We want, when you get to the trade deadline, it's a case where, you know, last minute shopping is actually probably like a good idea. Sure. Because if you bring in a winger now and then all of a sudden you're at the deadline, you're like, ah, we need defense. But we've already spent our first round pick or whatever on a winger. I'm sure the Canucks would like to make some moves right now but you know to your point A dog the prices

might be better at the trade deadline there might be teams that say we'll be able to meet your price but not right now yeah and I do think that getting the Hughes trade out of the way I mean it takes certain things off certain people's

plates as we understand but also it'll allow them to kind of focus on I think what the original impetus was was sending out the memo was maybe it was a thinly veiled attempt to really talk about Quinn Hughes without talking about Quinn Hughes but I genuinely think when they sent out the memo

it was call us about Bluger, Sherwood, yeah, yeah, it was, yeah, it was. Well, it didn't turn out that way because they sent out the memo and then like two and a half weeks later they traded Hughes. I would imagine what happened

is that the Canucks went to Hughes and they were like, listen man, we need an answer. Yeah. Like, because I don't know if you've notice, Quinn, the season is not going well. Slip sliding away. So I think everyone was probably ready to talk about that situation and move really quickly and he was traded. Okay, Pige's article.

Yeah, so Patrick Johnson's had a couple different articles about the notion of rebuilding. I know it's a new and original concept in Vancouver to talk about the Vancouver Canucks rebuilding, but there's some interesting takeaways here. Most of it stems from his article two days ago where he got some quotes from the president of hockey ops, Jim Rutherford. the headline of the article And I thought it was a tad misleading But I'll digress How Jim Rutherford convinced ownership

To rebuild And I saw a lot of people championing this online A lot of people saying finally And throwing their hands in the air Hallelujah The Canucks have finally Finally made an organizational organizational decision

Top the bottom to rebuild What does the rebuild look like? It's got to be fast It's approximately three days Like all the best rebuilds I like that all it took to convince the owner that it was time to rebuild was being, after around 30 games of the season, dead last in the NHL. Right.

And then essentially being strong-armed into trading your best-ever defenseman. But outside of that. Anyway, so. What was that conversation? I was like, okay, just this year, though. Don't worry, don't worry. We'll talk everyone into the team for next season. but this season since we're already in last overall

and there's some pretty good players in the draft and you can throw out the word rebuild you can throw it out in a press release and everyone will be like, you're rebuilding. So Patrick talked to Rutherford on Monday night. The quote everybody liked was when Rutherford said, quote, Aquilini understands where we're at and of the circumstances.

The conversations I've had, he understands. Everyone was like, awesome. That sounds great. But then a little while later, Rutherford said, quote, I was stressed we wouldn't get the return we were after, speaking about the Quinn Hughes trade. We would be painted into a corner.

We now need some success in this draft. And if we're to do that, we'll avoid a four or five year rebuild. To what everyone said, what about the earlier quote? Where you talked about convincing the owner to do a rebuild? Yes, by the rebut. read into the second quote more.

If they aren't successful at the draft, that means there's going to be a four to five year rebuild. He's saying it without saying it. That was your inference? I'm just saying there could be something there. My inference was if we don't get it right at the draft, well, we're going to have to make some trades and sign some free agents to speed this bad boy out. No, no, it's the other way around.

That's what I think. Definitely. Halford is the one because this is the Konax. They were convinced to do a rebuild. but really how much convincing does it take when you're dead last almost halfway through the season and you just traded,

you were just forced to trade your generational defense. Here's what I think might have happened is when they were essentially forced to trade Hughes, I'll be dead honest, I think that the organization felt like they got a better return than they even envisioned. I think there's a reason that Rutherford took the first offer They did.

They were saying that. Yeah, right? They were like, you're often as booed him? Of course we'll do this. And then I think it was like, well, what if, what if us outkicking our coverage here and really doing a really nice job of getting assets back in return for Quinn? What if this could get us one of them quick retools that everyone likes to do?

Because now we've got three players that are already on our roster. We've got a first round pick from Minnesota. We've got our own first round pick. Maybe we trade another player. And that's three first-round picks in the same draft. And then they're adding it up. And they're like, that could be six players. They need to get, I mean, there's no sure things in the draft,

but they need to get the closest thing to it with their pick in this year's draft. They need to get almost a slam dunk impact player in this draft because they don't have that right now. Yeah. Butyam might be a high-level player, right? Sure. And you'd be super happy, actually, if he gets to the level of, say, Heronic. Right? Heronics are a terrific player.

But they don't win cups with a bunch of very good players. No, you win cups with the guy you traded. That's the guy who wins a cup. Yeah, it's pretty straightforward. You need a bunch of very good players, but you also need two or three future Hall of Famers. And again, people always say like, well, that's a high bar. I'm like, uh-huh. Yeah, it's hard to win.

There's 32 teams. So you go through the lineups of most Stanley Cup winning teams and they've got at least one future Hall of Famer. And you can always, you know, there's always people like, what about this team? I'm like, okay, fine, that team. But most teams that win the Stanley Cup have future Hall of Famers. So that's what you, that's what the, that's what the Canucks need to find. And that's what they're not giving themselves A very big window to do it

They're like, we're gonna have probably four picks In the top 40s I'll give you one draft for rebuild And then it's back to win now mode baby You know And then you're looking at Okay well what are the What are the highest upside pieces that you've got

Boom is one Coots is another And then I suppose if you think That Pedersen can find his game That would be the other But That's it Right?

Am I missing one? Nope. That's why this idea. And we can continue this conversation. Future Hall of Famer, Tom Vellander? Yeah. We're talking about future Hall of Famer. Do you think Coots is going to be feature Hall of Famer?

All of them have to be. Probably not. Probably not. That's why you need a lot of picks and you need, and the Canucks, as much as we enjoy watching them win, they can't screw this up. Don't screw this up. Get a top five pick.

Get a top five pick. The thing about finishing, 32nd overall is your guaranteed top 5 pick. You can't fall that much. But here's, if A-Dog, if everything goes right, they might be. And it's always good to make plans predicated on

everything going right because everything always goes right. And Tim in Vancouver, I think he makes a very good point here. If the team has guys like Kane and Kemp in the lineup instead of Lechromaki and Ratu, they aren't rebuilding.

Until then, it's all talk. and I'll believe it when I see it. I feel the same way about these players in the lineup. I'm like, if you guys are placing emphasis on this draft and saying this is our rebuilding year and we only get one of them to accumulate draft picks and to have a really good draft, I'm okay with trying to convince the team to win,

but it has to be with the young players. Kane doesn't have a future with this team. Camp doesn't have a future with this team. and Sherwood doesn't have a future with this team because the Kinecks are reportedly not, meaning is asking price. So anyone who doesn't have a future with this team,

get them out of here. Okay, we got to get out of here. It's time for break. We will be back on the other side to continue this conversation. Before we go to break, I need to remind you, this segment of the show was brought to by the Duick Auto Group. Find out why nobody beats a Duick deal since 1926. Visit Duke GM on Marine Drive. Visit them

downtown. Visit them in Richmond and visit them online at Duick Auto Group. More Canucks Talk on the other side. You're listening to the Halford & Brough show on SportsNet 650. Canucks Talk with Jamie Dodd and Thomas Drance. We'll dive deep into all that's happening with the Vancouver Canucks. Listen 12 to 2 p.m. on SportsNet 650 or wherever you get your podcasts. 633 on a Thursday.

Happy Thursday, everybody. Halpert Braves, Sportsnet, 650. Halpernbrough of the morning is brought to by Sands and Associates. Only a licensed insolvency trustee can cut your debt by up to 80% with no upfront fees to learn how. Visit them online at Sands. That's trustee.com. Hey, I just did, uh, I just did a, uh... Please don't say tankathon.

I did. The Canucks got Gavin McKenna first overall. Nice. Heck yeah. Yeah, yeah. I changed my tune. Way to go, Tankathon. This is a worthwhile.

I'm just going to throw out a scenario for you here. Yeah. The Canucks finally win the draft lottery. And then they're like, I'm not sold on Gavin McKenna. Oof. There have been discussions about whether or not Gavin McKenna is truly going to go first overall. I think he will. Yeah, I would not.

But I would not toy with it. His season has not been a walk in the park. Well, hold on. For Penn State. It hasn't. I know. Period. But we're going to get his head coach on the show.

Guy Godowski is going to join the show at 7 o'clock this morning. Head coach of the Penn State, Nittney Lions, men's hockey team, head coach of Gavin McKenna, who in addition to playing for the Nittany Lions is also playing for the Canadian World Junior's team. and they played last night, and we'll get to that in a second. But we'll get them, I think we'll get, maybe not necessarily the most objective view, because he is the guy's head coach,

but we'll get a deeper look at what's going on. And maybe, you know, in addition to talking about this, Guy Gidowski's been around the collegiate landscape for a long time, so he can tell us not just about the difficulty playing in a league where there's guys that are like 23 and 24, but also how much better college hockey has gotten over, I'd say, the last decade? Like, it's become a much more.

difficult league to play in, right? Yeah, yeah. Programs have come up on nowhere like Penn State and gone from being afterthoughts to legitimate national title contenders. So we'll talk about that. But on the subject of McKenna, he did play last night as Canada defeated Sweden 2-1 in pre-tournament action for the world juniors. Two assists on Brady Martin's two goals. Brady Martin was the fifth overall picked by Nashville, the most recent draft, I want to say. And I saw his in between, I think it was between the first and second periods interview. And he was gushing about how good McKenna was.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. The pass that McKenna gave Martin for the first goal was awesome. He stopped up, East West. And Martin did an unbelievable job of getting the one-timer away. But it was a nice play. And I think, isn't that McKenna's game? Like, he's a passer. Yep.

Right? And he's a good player, but he does look quite slight out there. He always has. Can you imagine, though? I know some people don't even want me to put this out there the Canucks finally win the draft lottery and then draft for position they're like actually we like this Tyne and Lawrence guy

there's not enough New Brunswick players in the league and he's a center right he's a center whatever I don't think that'll happen any of it really I think the Canucks won't win the draft lottery but you never know but you know I think this draft is is uh is going to be real interesting And I think this world juniors, forget the draft.

I think this world juniors is going to be real interesting. We talked about it yesterday, but just to reiterate it, there's three reasons why I'm very curious to watch Canada this year. The first reason is that they've been awful, the last two tournaments, especially last season. That was one of the worst Canadian teams I've ever seen. They couldn't create scoring chances. They were playing average teams,

and they couldn't create scoring chances. I'm okay once in a while if Canada loses because they get goalied or something like that but I'm not okay if they look like a bunch of grinders. Well, I'm not okay. And they pass on all of their best scores. Yeah, right?

We're going to make a grinding team this year. See what happens. And I think what happened last year was an echo of the hockey Canada scandal because I think they only went with character guys because actually I know this because I've heard from a number of people that hockey Canada was like,

we are focusing on character, character, character, character, and then they were like, and I think it just got, maybe a little got carried away. Possibly. Too much. You know, it's like, yeah, but it's like, you know, you don't have to be the pope to make, you know, the team. Like, I understand there are extreme examples, but still, you're going to bring some players. Not everyone's going to be an angel.

So last year, I mean, that was dreadful, and to do it at home was really bad. So that's one reason. Canada needs to at least medal in this tournament playing a big game. They didn't even play in a big game in the last two years. The second would be Braiding Coots. I want to see what this guy looks like. There's a lot riding on Braden Coots for the Vancouver Canucks future. This guy was in the NHL this season.

That's how desperate the Canucks were. He's on PP1 with McKenna. Yeah, classic Canucks. It's like, we got a lot riding on this one individual who might be a good player. Yeah. But that's not what we need. We need home runs across the board. And last but not least, I want to see what Gavin McKenna looks like in this tournament.

Well, look, I want to see... I don't watch a ton of junior hockey. I don't watch a ton of college hockey. You know, so when I watch these real juniors, it's often, you know, I've seen McKenna play before, but I want to see what he's like in his draft year. Is he going to go out there and dominate? Yeah. He doesn't need to win MVP, but he needs to be...

very, very noticeable. Yeah, I mean, I'll dial it back to one of your other points. They're just about the collective with Canada at this tournament. Like, when this tournament, for me, used to be fun, because I don't find it fun anymore. It used to be fun when Canada was the best

team there and trounced everybody. It was Canadian exceptionalism, which is a rare thing at times. And it was great. Like, Canada, here was, the part that made it good was that Canada cared the most about the tournament. Canada put the most into the tournament,

resources, time allotted, media, all of it. Emotion. Everything. The country stopped when this tournament went on. And then they went out and won it. So it was like, that's a validation of all of this time and effort and energy that's put into it. The moment that that stopped, it kind of began like, oh, this isn't necessarily our thing anymore. As a matter of fact, if you look at the last few years, it's the Americans tournament.

Americans are doing a better job of winning at that level. level by a pretty noticeable margin. And so that is an interesting challenge for Canadian hockey and then, of course, the governing body is can you get back to that point where the frenzied amount of coverage and emotion and attention matches the results? Because you can't ask people to put a lot of time and effort. And honestly, with the prices that they've charged when it's hosted in Canada, money for them to finish fifth and losing the quarterfinals to Finland and look awful the whole tournament yeah

they didn't look good right like what are we doing here you know so i i hope that that turns around and i know the win yesterday was probably a start in the right direction also it always does have a good excuse though because they'll be like yeah our best 18 year olds are in the nchl or 19 year olds are in the nashel but see i've even found that argument falling flat a little bit recently because um and i know i know like they'll get a call who did they get back this year they got misa And they might get Dickinson from San Jose. San Jose is like, yeah, whatever. Yeah, sure. Go ahead.

Although they are pretty close to a playoff spot. But yeah, hopefully that changes this year. Also, do you see Team Canada's goal song for the tournament? Courage? Yeah. A bunch of young kids using the hip. I think that's a good motivational tactic. My dad suggested this one.

None of them had any idea what the song was. I saw the interviews yesterday. They're all like, I've never heard it. I've never listened to it, but it seemed pretty, cool. And I'm like, that just reaffirms how old we are. Let's play some audio, and we're going to switch over to the White Capp Stadium story

here, because Don Garber, MLS commissioner, was at it again. Was he on a podcast? He was on a podcast with Landon, Donovan, Tim Howard, two former U.S. internationals who cover MLS pretty closely. And I think they did like a, I think it was actually recorded

closer to the actual date of the MLS Cup final, but it was like a state of the union address. But one where Garber could speak more, candidly and off the cuff because it was a podcast. So Garber spoke on a variety of things. Do we have the audio already here, Laddie? Talking at, again, and nothing really necessarily new here, but definitely worth listening to about the stadium situation in Vancouver.

I bring this up because the fact that these three are talking about this is interesting. Because in previous iterations of any national MLS coverage, the white caps and their situation wouldn't have gotten any national national. coverage. It just wouldn't have. It was a regional story. Garber really didn't pay that much attention to it. He never spoke about it publicly. And part of it was because the white caps were sort of like on an island, out on the West Coast, a forgotten sort of franchise. And they never won anything. They didn't make deep runs in the playoffs and they weren't necessarily a good team. Well, all that changed this year. And now the white caps are, they're a hot topic

to talk about. So here's the MLS commissioner, Don Garber, speaking about the stadium situation in Vancouver. In Vancouver, you know, I say, with vigor. We don't have a good stadium situation. It just has to get fixed. And I think we have a dynamic with the politics in that community where everybody loves the team. But nobody should expect that an owner is going to have a substandard stadium without the progress that we were hoping for with the multiple trips that I've made there, an owner who's willing to invest in a proper soccer-specific stadium, and you scratch your head and saying, what more do they need to do? We had more fans, visiting fans in Miami

than we've had on any MLS Cup. Is that right? They came across the continent. Yeah. You have an owner that's put a great team on the field. You've got a new player who loves the city. They've defied all the odds by getting in the final. So Tim, you know, the last thing any commission wants to do

is move a team. It's the worst possible outcome. But cities around, you know, the history of sport have recognized an owner can't just be in a situation where you've got to publicly run building. They share no revenue. There's no naming rights. The stadium isn't what it needs to be. So what are we going to do? We got to do something. I hope they step up. We were talking off

camera. When you make an announcement at City Hall, it's usually a positive one. So we hope that that is the case. Vancouver's a great place to play. Love the city. I've enjoyed my time there. So long may that continue. By the mayor has been very supportive. Great. I think the dynamic with the province and with the Premier is more complicated. Sure. It's not that he doesn't want to do it, but it's more complicated. The factors, the constituencies are different. The economics are different. Budgets are different. The mayor who was at the draw. I chatted with him. I met with him a couple weeks ago. He's a fan. The guy who's working on this, by the way, for the Premier, loves the team. He was attending games. It's not like people don't love the team. That's right. Yeah.

But, you know, you need more love. You need substance. And we got to deliver on the substance. Amen to that. I love that when Americans call it the Premier. Yeah. It's like, are we in the Soviet Union? It's fine. Premier. Yeah. Premier. Yeah, whatever. Premier. Premier. Premier. Premier. Premier. There's a lot to unpack there, by the way. Yeah. So, um, the mayor, Ken Sim has done some things for the white caps.

Um, but the city of Vancouver hasn't actually committed any money. They, I mean, they might have paid some lawyers to put together that memorandum of understanding, but they haven't like done anything in what, and what the white caps are asking. the province to do the premier because the province owns bc place is actual money you know like it's changing the lease agreement so if you give the white caps a better deal you are essentially taking money away from the stadium and taking away money from the taxpayers so when don garber said it's a little different from for david eby yeah it's it's it's a little different from him. Now, Eby has only kind of said a few things about this situation and they are very boilerplate.

He said, this is a couple of weeks ago. You said, we have been engaging with the white caps. They have faced despite their success on the field some significant financial challenges. And we're working with them to do our best to teach our hopefully championship white caps here at home in British Columbia. So that means nothing, right? No, that's some good boilerplate. That's some good boilerplate. I think there's a lot of offshoot questions that could be asked about this whole situation like should the province be owning BC place is that is that something that Crown Corporation or anyone I call it

that should be owning it like is it we reach the point now where maybe the province should consider selling the stadium but I mean that's maybe that's another topic for another day but

I keep wondering I keep wondering if if the long kind of like the long term strategy is just a better deal at BC place I guess the I guess the commissioner and everyone has been said like no they need

at some point they need a football specific stadium, like a soccer specific stadium. Right. But they are really putting the gears on the province right now. Okay, so that's, that's really where the pressure is right now. That's my big takeaway from this, because I don't want to look too far down the road because it seems really speculative and we don't have a lot to work on. Right now, and we're actually entering fairly unprecedented times with not just the amount

of pressure that's being put on the provincial government, but the places. in which it's coming from. So you've got Mayor Ken Sim who's been pretty outspoken in like handing off the onus here saying, well, we've done our job here at City Hall. We got the big scissors and everything. And we had the press conference. Yeah, I wore a jersey. I did my bit.

And now it's, see this white cup scarf? And now it's handy. And now it's time to hand it off to the provincial government. Then the provincial government now you do all the actual money stuff. Yeah, yeah. I did the photo ops. You do the other stuff. and then we had some free land to give away and then now you've got garber for this is the third or fourth time in a month that he has had very public very outspoken remarks yeah putting direct pressure points on eby and the provincial government and i i think that this is going to be a continued series of pressure points from different individuals so that one this story just doesn't go away and it

of flatline, but two, the lease expires in 13 days. That's the other part of it, is there is some real finite timelines, but they're dealing with here. Get your stuff out of here. Out. They put it on the curb. And garbage bags. All the God is a microwave. Yeah, that old couch.

Wow, I have busted. Yeah. So I don't know, man. I don't know how it's going to turn out because it's way, way, way too early in the process. But I do know, like, I like always looking back and saying, like, what are some previous examples, like anecdotal evidence or otherwise, that history has shown us where these tactics have been deployed and if they work.

And I can't really find anything with this because small scale, like the white caps have never, one never been this prominent and prevalent in the market. That's fair to say, right? The MLS white caps have never been a bigger deal than they are right now. This is the most popular they've ever been. This is the most success they've ever had. And this is the first real, quote unquote, breaking point that we've seen with their landlord. Yeah.

So there's that part of it. The other part of it is that I don't remember a sporting outfit and the, like, someone with the power that Garber had, because he's the commissioner, coming in and leaning on a provincial government like this. Like it just, it's, it's very hard to see like, do these tactics. He's leaning on the owner of the stadium. Right. It's like, here's what I want to know. Like, have these tactics. worked historically. Does

Garber ultimately get his way by leaning on politicians? Does Garber also comprehend or understand or appreciate? I bet he does that Canada has been much more hesitant to provide public money. It's a lot different.

Towards pro sports teams in the form of stadiums than the United States has been. Which is kind of weird because I thought we were the socialists and they were the capitalist, but whatever. It's it's basically Canada and California. Right.

California, they're like, why would we subsidize billionaires? Yeah. Why would we subsidize rich guys? Why would we give them these? And a lot of it's just like, there is a philosophy there, but also it's a lot of just like, what do the voters think? It's not necessarily the politicians. It's the voters.

And that's why you see teams move out of California. Yeah. Because there are, whether it's, you know, counties or cities or states or whatever, who's paying for these stadiums, they, there are, in, outside of Canada, outside of California, there are places that are like, yeah, we'll give you anything. We just want a team. Yeah, right. Because that's what our voters want. Yep. And forget the finances.

And we'll figure out a way to sell it. But yeah, we're going to build you a stadium. Do you want full control of the stadium? Sure. Like, we'll technically own it, but we'll give you everything from it. Yeah. Because we want the team or we want to redevelop a certain area of our city or we want to do this or frankly, a lot of it comes down to. It's like, we want a team because that would be kind of cool for this city.

Yeah. And we'll look good as politicians for that. And people don't really understand the money part. There's like, yeah, we got a lot of debt. I was like, yeah, governments have debt. You know, they don't look into it. Yeah. And again, I've talked about this on the show before.

and I talked to a couple of people when I was down at the MLS Cup final in Miami who were kind of in the know with the white caps and MLS and everything. And I said like, you know, Garber has gone down this road before about floating the idea of relocating a franchise. It was over a decade ago and it was Columbus. But I said, you know, the further you dig into that story, the more you just realize you're comparing apples to oranges because it's just you don't have the layers of government that you were dealing with. And part of the solution in Columbus was finding a richer owner out there. And that's where they found Jimmy Haslam to come in and take things over.

And then they were able to move. Although they might have to do that in Vancouver, too. That's the other side of this. But we don't have, the other part of it, like the apples to oranges thing, is like, there's not just a Jimmy Haslam sitting around where you can take them out. Apparently, they brokered the deal over a Thursday night football game. Like, Jimmy, how would you like doing a soccer team? And he was like, okay.

Like, you know, and I know it was more complex than that. He checked his wall. He's like, I've got enough. Yeah, I can do that right now. Like, it's fine, right? So I don't know how this all plays out with Garber leaning on the government because it is a bold and brave new world for both him dealing with Canadian government and then, of course, the provincial government dealing with this now increased pressure to get something done because regardless of what happens at Hastings, they're playing or the idea is to play a BC place for the next, I'd say four years. So they need to get something sorted out. I think it's been longer than that.

That's why I said at least. The Canaver text in and he said there's a great opportunity for a 30 person, 30,000 person stadium for the White Caps and the Lions to be built at the race course with a view of the mountain. Just give them the land and let the Caps and Lions finance it. Two things, you can't just give them the land. That's a problem. They have to pay some sort of lease rent. Yes. Like you can't, because then you've got all these people that are outraged like, why are you giving them the land?

Like we could build We could build housing for people that needed instead of a soccer stadium, right? Like now I'm not, don't, don't text in with your plito. This is an NW, okay? I'm just saying that's the reality of like what would happen if you just gave them the land. And Ken Simmons said, has said, you know,

if they build a stadium, they're going to pay fair market rates. We'll own the stadium. We'll still own the land. But, and then you say, let the caps and lions finance it, it's a little, I mean, that's what their plan is. Yeah. That's what they're trying to, but it's expensive. Not cheap. It's expensive.

And then who finances the added transportation that you have when there's all sorts of infrastructure stuff that comes in with the stadium? So this is a very complicated issue that they're working through, they're trying to work through. but the first step really is figuring out the lease that expires again in 13 days at BC Place Okay, we gotta go to break before we do I need to remind you

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Duick Downtown duik and Richmond and visit them online at the Duick Auto Group coming up, Guy Gidowski, head coach of the Penn State Nittany Lions men's hockey team, also the head coach of Gavin McKenna. You're listening to The Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet, 650.