Halford & Brough in the Morning - What Kind Of Player Is Nils Höglander?

Episode Date: September 18, 2024

In hour two, Mike & Jason preview Week 3 with NFL.com's Nick Shook (2:55), the boys hear from players on NHL Media Day ahead of training camps opening tomorrow, and they discuss what to expect from Elias Pettersson's (17:25) press conference, Brough tries to get Halford interested in the Dallas Stars (29:16), plus the boys argue about what kind of player Nils Höglander is (35:48). This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

7 o'clock on a Wednesday. Happy Wednesday, everybody. Halford Brough, Sportsnet 650. If you're watching on the stream right now, you can see how excited Jason is with our musical choice this morning. There we go. We're coming to you live from the Kintec studio. Kintec Canada's favorite orthotics provider.

Powered by thousands of five-star Google reviews. So, Rafi, what are you waiting for? Kintec, that's what you're waiting for. The Halford & Brough Show in the morning is brought to you by Vancouver Honda. Vancouver Honda is Vancouver's premier destination for Honda customers. They have a friendly, knowledgeable staff that can help with anything you're looking for. Sales, financing, service, or

parts. I want to address something before we talk to Nick Schuch because I knew you'd use this as an opportunity to hurt me. Yep. And Frank, the unfit fitness guy, texted in with what we learned. He said, after yesterday's show, I learned old bitter boy Brough doesn't know ball. Jason, you run on that third down 100 out of 100 times to ensure the clock runs, and it's a crime against football humanity that Sirianni wasn't fired yesterday.

You should have brought this up with me, but I would like to change my mind. Oh, my God. This does not happen very often. We're actually. Is Ruff saying he's wrong? Oh, my. Those are your words, not mine. Ruff is saying he's wrong.

I am saying I have reconsidered you reconsidered your wrong take to a right one and here's here's my reasoning uh i did read more about how saquon barkley hasn't always been the most reliable pass catcher huh which i actually brought up in the argument that you should have used against me. So in a way, you were also wrong in the argument. There it is. So not quite an initiative, but close. There it is. But yeah, look, I think what frustrated me,

and I kind of want to have a fun argument with it, but what frustrated me is like, that play was well-designed and Saquon Barkley still has to catch that. But in hindsight, there might've been better ways to address that. This is so delicious. It must be fattening. This is great.

I love this. I'd like to offer my resignation. I can no longer continue on this show. When did you know it was the end? He's like, I knew. I am ruined. Let's go to the phone lines now. Nick Shook from NFL.com joins us here on the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650.

Good morning, Nick. How are you? I'm good. I feel like I just sat in on a separated couple headed for divorce that suddenly reconciled out of nowhere. We're still headed for divorce, though, aren't we? A lot of other issues. Don't let that reconciliation fool you. There's a lot going on here.

Nick's going to come on now and be like, I thought it was a great play. Got to catch that ball, Saquon. So just so we're clear, Nick, the three of us, we agree, it was not a good play call, correct? It was not. I understand why. The call worked. They didn't execute, though.

You can even go back to the old Woody Hayes thing, you know, two out of three things that can happen when you throw are bad. And in that instance, it's more valuable to run the clock down. I personally thought they should have ran it on third down and gone for it on fourth down. It would really step on the throat. And they did not do that. And we saw what happened.

So, yeah, I'm in the same camp as you. Should they have gone for it on fourth down after the play to Barkley? There's a case to be made with that. Fourth and three, the way I envisioned it was if it's third and three and you have two downs to get three yards, let's say you get it to fourth and one. You have the best short yardage play known to man, the most effective one in the tush push, and you could branch out of it if you so desired.

Fourth and three, yeah, I mean, analytics guys would say, yeah, still go for it because it's better to have a three-point lead. It for it. Because it's better to have a three-point lead. This sounds crazy. But it's better to have a three-point lead than a six-point lead in the NFL in those moments because the opposing team will not play with the same urgency to get to the end zone if they're only down three. They'll play for the field goal. And, yeah, so not a good spot that they ended up in.

So where are you right now on Nick Sirianni as the head coach of the Eagles? Because I can't think of a guy, head coach in the NFL, whose stock has fallen farther than Nick Sirianni's in the last couple of years. Yeah, it's a tough thing to judge, I think, personally, because he is ultimately the one who is in charge of hiring the coordinators that he did last year, which contributed to the downfall, and he's tried to remedy that this year. And the decision-making ultimately still falls on him. I think back to when they reached the Super Bowl and just all the good energy they had around them, and to see where they were at the end of last year and see some of the same issues kind of creep up in their offense.

You know, in the first two weeks, it's concerning, but I'm not one to, you know, make a knee-jerk reaction to a situation like that. I will say this, since the start of 2023, they are tied for the most leads blown inside the final two minutes of a game. They've had the lead four times inside the final two minutes of games and have lost those games. So they need to figure something out on that side.

Speaking of knee-jerk reactions, and granted it took two weeks, but the benching of Bryce Young in Carolina. We actually didn't discuss this on the show at any great length yesterday. So you've got an entire opportunity here, Nick, to discuss. And there's a lot of different things and a lot of different wrinkles and a lot of different angles to this story. But first, you hear the news that Canales has decided to go and bench Bryce Young in favor of Andy Dalton. What's your immediate reaction upon hearing that news?

Not surprised. He, you know, for as bad as he was as a rookie, he seemingly has regressed through two weeks in his second season. And I think that Canales looked around and saw that Frank Wright got tired after 11 games last year and knows that this is a club that doesn't have a ton of patience when it comes to, you know, expecting results. And I think he also watched the tape and realized that, look, we can do some things. There are guys open. There are, you know, opportunities to move the football,

and Bryce is not delivering. Bryce does not look confident. He doesn't look anything like the player that the Panthers drafted, number one out of Alabama a couple years ago. And also, in that same vein, Dave Canales and Dan Morgan didn't draft Bryce Young. They have no actual ties to him and aren't obligated to see this through. So in the interest of winning in the high-pressure environment that is the NFL, that is a results based

league, I think he made the right decision going to Andy Dalton because he probably realized, look, Andy Dalton's not going to crumble. Granted his age, whatever, anything else, he's not going to crumble. He has the experience and he's not going to falter like Bryce Young has. I mean, watching that game was rough.

It's more than just the fact that they aren't moving the football. It's that they aren't even trusting him, or he's not trusting himself, to throw the ball beyond 10 yards of depth. I mean, like, every target is short. His last throw of the game was a jump throw because he had a jump just to get it over the line. It was deflected and batted down. It's not a good viewing experience.

You can tell. It's like they're playing with one arm tied behind their back. And I honestly think this might be the last of Bryce Young in Carolina permanently because this leadership group outside of David Tepper did not draft him. And I think right now on the trajectory they're headed down, they're going to end up with a number one pick again. Okay, so it's obviously a bad situation. I think everyone can universally agree it's not good right now.

My question is, is this more an indictment of the Carolina Panthers as an organization or Bryce Young as a quarterback? As an organization. I'm a firm believer that you can break a quarterback no matter how good they are. Situation matters in that position more than any other in sports. Just as that is the most important position in sports, situation is also vitally important. I mean, just look at CJ Stroud and not to say that CJ Stroud, you know, you know, wouldn't have some of the same success he has in Houston,

but if you throw him behind the offensive line in the state that it was in last year with the weapons or the lack thereof that they had last year and still the situation that they have this year, he would not be quite as productive and as good as he is in Houston because in Houston, he's got a franchise left to tackle. He's got studs at receiver. They added Stefan Diggs this off season. And he had an offensive coordinator that knows how to build the offense around him. Last year, the, the, the offense in Carolina was so basic,

but also just did not give Bryce a lot of opportunities to show off his own skills. I'm a big believer in scheming around your talent and not forcing your talent into your scheme. And I think that Bryce has been a victim of that and a lack of talent around him and the general disorganization on the franchise's you know side as well with firing his coach after 11 games in their first season together and look you can go look no further than tim couch for any example you need of a guy like this where he comes in with a rocket arm and a ton of talent and he's thrown behind a

a sieve of an offensive line with you know ton of talent, and he's thrown behind a sieve of an offensive line with no weapons around him, and he gets the crap beaten out of him, and he's out of the league within four years. Because that's the poster child for it right now, and I think Bryce Young is in a similar situation with the Panthers. Do we need to talk more about how dysfunctional

a franchise this is? I know the Pat McAfee rant from earlier in the week kind of went viral talking about how the stands are empty, the fans are disenchanted, Tepper's kind of a lunatic, and they're awful on the field. And I know it's the NFL and everybody makes money and every franchise is pretty healthy, but there is this weird anomaly in Carolina where it almost feels like Carolina is way worse than everybody else.

Right now, as it stands, they are because they, you know, won two games last year and they're 0-2 now and they don't look very competitive at all. But this is also what happens with any franchise in pro sports and especially in football when, you know, past decisions that end up being mistakes start to pile up. It just sets you further and further back. And actually, I point again to the Browns

because they were in this situation for almost 20 years. Sure, yeah. Because they had a short amount of time to start their franchise when they came back as an expansion franchise. They went through an expansion draft and didn't get a ton of talent through it. And you can continue to go down the list of all the decisions made and the changes made a coach, a GM, a quarterback over and over and over again, just repeating the same cycle

before they finally found some sort of consistency and stability. That's kind of the path the Panthers have been on since they hired Matt Rule. Wasn't a fan of the hire of Rule at the time because I think some coaches are just born to be college coaches, you know, based on their demeanor and what works for them. And it doesn't work in the NFL. Rule's one of them.

Saban's one of them. You can kind of go down the list of Spurrier was another one where motivators, guys that work well with 18, 19, 20-year-olds don't work well with grown men who are making money playing football. And so I think that was their first mistake, and their second mistake was giving up all that capital to draft a

quarterback who is 5'9", maybe 10 on a good day, small, and needs he's not the he has a, small, and needs, you know, he's not the, you know, he has a slight frame, and yes, he's talented and everything else, like he showed off at Alabama, but needs to be put in a situation where he can, you know, his growth can be kind of cultivated, and that's not the situation that they had.

You know, I would love it if teams would stop drafting franchise quarterbacks with the belief that they're just going to come in and save their team. And a lot of that is fan-powered, of course, but this felt very much like that with the Panthers. So I don't know if it's necessarily like organizational dysfunction, because I think they made the right moves and who they hired this off season. Dan Morgan being a former player moving to GM, but he's got, you know, he had experience in front office. We'll see if that pans out.

But I think Dave Canales was the right hire, not just because of Bryce Young, but because of his reputation built as a head coach. So I don't think it's organizational dysfunction as much as it's the result of bad decisions made, stacking up over the years and digging you in such a hole that it's going to take a long time to climb out. And sometimes it includes the sacrifice of a guy you spend a number one pick on, because he's just not cut out to handle the job as it stands right now. We're speaking to Nick Shook from NFL.com here on the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650.

So on Tuesday, the Miami Dolphins placed Tua Tungavailoa on IR after another concussion per NFL rules. Tungavailoa must remain on IR for at least four games, which means he will not be suited up this weekend when the Miami Dolphins take on the Seattle Seahawks, who we've been paying very close attention to after they got off to a 2-0 start. Nick, I got to ask you, what does the future have in store

for the Dolphins at quarterback, both in the immediacy, and it sounds like Skyler Thompson this weekend, maybe a little bit longer term with Huntley coming in, and then even longer term with Tua's potential return? Yeah, definitely a bit of a unique situation. I can't really recall the last time a team put a player on IR because of concussions. I mean, they shut down two a couple of years ago because of a second concussion suffered that season.

And I know there have been some other players with repeat concussions that end up being out for a long time. But quarterback is such a high profile position and to his history is so well documented that it does, you know, really register and moves the needle. In the immediacy, it is Skyler Thompson, who did not look good at all in replacing Tua in that blowout that was that Thursday night game. I don't have a ton of confidence in him, but I also trust Mike McDaniel to try to coach around that to a degree, kind of in the same vein

that Matt LaFleur did with Malik Willis last weekend, which is an incredible game plan that he put together to beat the Colts. In the long term, yeah, I think Huntley could factor in, especially if Skyler struggles. The sample size on Skyler is very small. His greatest highlights were probably that playoff loss to Buffalo where he played better than most expected. And the long, long term with Tua remains to be seen.

You know, Ian Rappaport reported that Tua has no intention to retire. Obviously, that was the immediate reaction on everybody's part was that, you know, he's done. He's had all these concussions, everything else. He's just signed an extension that doesn't even kick in until next year. He's got some money to earn. And it's also really hard to tell a guy who is a competitor, walk away from the game he loves, unless you have to medically retire them. You know,ighton Vander Esch type of situation and he obviously had more years in the NFL than Tua has to this point so I think we wait and see on what happens

with him obviously he's out for the next month and we just kind of continue to monitor that and if you're a Dolphins fan you hope for the best with Skyler while knowing that Snoop can come in Snoop Huntley the one-time Pro Bowler because so many Pro Bowl quarterbacks backed out, they ended up down the list at Huntley. You know, he's got enough experience that he can make some plays. And I think that bodes well. He looked all right in the preseason for the Browns. He lost out on that competition because they also had Jameis

and they're high on DTR internally. So it's not, you know, a disaster scenario yet, unless he comes in and is not good as well. It is a huge bummer for a franchise that had Superbowl aspirations, but it is still early. So we'll wait and see. Nick, this was awesome. As always, thank you very much for doing this. We really appreciate it. Enjoy all the games this weekend, including Thursday night football. We'll do this again next week.

Thanks for having me guys and good luck on your relationship. I hope you continue to mend fences over the fact that they shouldn't have thrown the ball on third down. We've been trying to make it happen for like 10 years. I don't know. We'll probably just keep muddling through it.

I appreciate your gesture, Nick. Thank you very much. Thanks, Nick. Appreciate it. All right, guys. Nick Shook from NFL.com and our relationship expert here on the Alfred and Rob Show

on Sportsnet 650. So a quick update. Toronto, the Toronto Maple Leafs are, they're doing their media avails today as the Canucks will be doing at 4.30. And the big topic there is Mitch Marner. And Mitch Marner opened his media avail with a statement.

He's just like, I'm not here to talk about my contract. No good. I'm here to talk about the season. So he is immediately just shutting everything down with regards to the contract. And the new captain there, Austin Matthews, was asked earlier about Mitch Marner and all that he's had to deal with in terms of criticism, off-field distractions, all the noise in Toronto. And here's what the new captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs had to say. Yeah, I think he's dealt with it great. I mean, I think he's had a great summer.

You know, I think with all the noise, you can only control so much. So I think he's put in a lot of work. He looks great on the ice, off the ice, focused. And, you know, we're all here to support him as teammates and as a team. So I don't think that stuff's really affected him or is going to affect him much at all. He's an amazing teammate and an amazing person, and he's a great player for our team. So looking forward to playing with him again. So I bring this up because I think in Vancouver there's going to be a similar situation playing out today. I'm not going to say that things are going to be said in the same way,

but there's going to be a guy at a podium for the Vancouver Canucks that a lot of people have been talking about in Vancouver, and that's Ilyas Pettersson. Pettersson has not done any media since arriving in British Columbia from Sweden. Other guys, especially some of the new guys, though, have been talking to the media informally at some of the skates. Um, PD didn't talk during the Jake Milford golf tournament when a lot of guys did.

He participated in the tournament. Looks like he has a nice smooth swing too. Okay. Didn't talk to the media. So, um, I think it'll be interesting to hear what he has to say and more specifically how he says it. Like, is he in a better mood,

basically? Does he seem, I'm not joking, does he seem more excited about playing hockey? It sounds funny. It does sound funny, but it's ridiculous.

Are you going to go and ask him a question? I'm actually not because it's in Penticton. So, I'm not going to be able to make that. I figured you'd make

the drive for it. And then back. Yeah. A real journalist would. Yeah, just to ask Petey the hard-hitting questions. Well, what would the hard-hitting questions be like? He can smile a little bit more this year. I frankly, I don't care if he's polite to media. I do not care.

On the ice, though, as a Canucks fan, I would like him to look a little more energized and a little more into it. A little more like it doesn't seem like it's an absolute nightmare playing for the Vancouver Canucks. Yeah, and I think... Because there were times last season where that's how it looked. And I do think, I mean, part of the entire experience

of training camp and the preseason is the newness, the rebirth. You start fresh, right? It's a whole new slate in front of you. Everything's been wiped clean. You've had the entire summer off. So I would expect that there will be a certain energy among the group, among all of the players involved. And I think that even if you don't necessarily have it,

the other people's enthusiasm will permeate. And it's funny that we're contrasting it with Toronto because Toronto actually has legitimate pressing questions about the futures of guys going into this season. No one knows what's going on with Marner. And by the way, the postscript, the subtext to that... The Canucks do have questions about a guy like Brock Besser,

but not, not even remotely close to what the Leafs have with Tavares and Marner, right? Tavares is sitting there. He's been stripped to the captaincy, which we're not making a big enough deal. By the way, you keep referring to Austin Matthews as the new captain.

I'm like, no, we all have to refer to him as the guy that stripped John Tavares, his captaincy away. That's who Austin Matthews is. That's the divide in the room. That's what's going to break this team apart. Can we park the Leafs talk for just a second here?

Yeah. Patrick Alvin, the general manager, was asked by Ian McIntyre in an interview, is Elias Pettersson, after his difficult second half last year, the X factor for this season. And essentially what IMAC is arguing is basically saying, look, Quinn Hughes won the Norris Trophy. JT Miller had over 100 points and nobody had any complaints about JT Miller's play.

Brock Besser scored 40 goals and Thatcher Demko was a finalist for the Vezina Trophy. So his argument is kind of like, where's the growth going to come from? And is Pedersen, how many times have we thought about, wow, if Pedersen had been on during the playoffs, maybe they could have beaten the Oilers.

I think that's a more than fair statement. Sure. To make about that series, especially how close it was. If he was on, like we've seen him in the past, does that put the Canucks over the top against the Edmonton Oilers? It might have.

And Alvin said, I definitely need Pedersen back to another level, which he's capable of. We all know that. I think he's extremely hungry to show that. He's a proud person and player, and I'm pretty sure that he has set his individual goal and mindset at a different level here i think he's really eager to come back and show everyone that he's capable of playing consistently now imac asked a follow-up question

were you surprised how much he struggled last spring, especially after signing his big contract extension? And Alvin said, I don't know if I was surprised, but the contract negotiations were hanging over him and could maybe see it was a little bit of a relief after that. Maybe he took his foot off the gas a little bit. But then he went on to add, he said, I think for a lot of the players, that was really their first time playing in the playoffs with all those fans traveling etc etc and then he said i think

quinn hughes can learn from some of the things that he dealt with during the playoffs to become a better player so alvin kind of deflected a little bit on that and then messaging his talk at when he's talking about peterson yeah peterson you know mean, I know that this is what they're going to put forth. Like, yeah, he didn't live up to the standards that we thought. And yeah, he's struggling on the stretch. Yeah, that's why I'm less interested to hear from those guys because they're already on the record. Alvin and Talkit through interviews they did with IMAC on PD

and Talkit basically just said like, listen, I expect this guy to be a driving force for us, but I do want to see and hear from PD. And I recognize that maybe press conferences aren't his thing. And I'm not expecting him to come out like, you know, like Dana white to hype up the season or anything like that. But we've seen PD in a good mood before.

We've seen him jovial. We've seen him joking around with people. Okay. Hold on. Hold on. I do think we're running a dangerous parallel here between my middle name is dangerous parallel between uh how the player acts publicly and the way that he talks and how they play on the ice the two might be relatable they might not

if here's the thing if petterson was uh miserable and surly and short and curt last year and was putting up three points a game, no one would have cared. No one would have cared. But he wasn't, and he was miserable. But we automatically connect the two. We just assume that one has to do with the other. So does the coaching staff.

Talkett said when I talked to him last year, he sounded subdued. When I talked to him on the phone. But Talkett never said he sounded subdued and I think he was subdued and that carried over to Well, what do you think the inference was? What do you think the inference was? Oh, Dirk Talkett didn't make the inference. He seemed, okay. Here's what I'm saying. He didn't make the inference.

He literally said that for a reason. What I'm saying is what Pedersen says and whatever is said over the next couple weeks is so secondary to what he does because where the the alarm bells and the red flags will go firing up for me is if he comes out and it's flat again on the ice because then all of a sudden nice if we got both then what we're saying is, okay, on the ice, what's the problem?

What's the issue? We got a text into the Dunbar Lumber text line. The vibes from Petey remind me a bit of Luongo when he was a Canuck, not really understanding the market,

taking himself too seriously. Yep. Living and dying with every negative comment or story. I hope he gets it sooner than later so he has a chance

to enjoy this amazing time in his career while also excelling and helping this team win a cup. I couldn't say that better myself. I could barely read it, actually. Yeah, you almost didn't. Yeah. Don't get me wrong. I understand exactly what everyone is talking about here

is there's a visual representation of struggle when the player is talking about here is there's a visual representation of struggle when the player is talking to reporters or having to face questions about his ineffective play. All that stuff. The coach talking about, no, he's not jovial. He's not happy. He's not upbeat. Like all that stuff. It's very easy to connect the two. What I'm saying is that right now, I just care about what it looks like on the ice because they answered a big question of their own when they said he was having a rotating cast of wingers.

And then the subtext brackets was, and those wingers weren't very good. They went out and addressed that as a club. So he doesn't have that excuse anymore. That excuse is gone. Here's the thing. If DeBrus comes in and is ineffective, I got a feeling that that's going to point more towards the guy he's playing alongside than DeBrus himself. You know what I mean?

Like if the production's not there, it's going to be looking at the guy who's playing center as opposed to the guy who's playing wing. Like that, you know, sometimes you can make too big a statement with offseason moves and what it signifies and what it means. But it was pretty obvious that this was designed to eliminate that part of the equation. And that part of the equation is, you know, who's going to play with Petey? Who's going to be his running mate?

Who's going to be the guy that's going to finish these nice passes and, you know, be able to be the trigger man on all of these opportunities in front of the net? It requires him to play well, though. That's it. That's what I'm saying. Show me on the ice. Show front of the net. It requires him to play well, though. That's it. That's what I'm saying. Show me on the ice. Show me on the ice. Okay, we got an open segment coming up

on the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. We'll keep diving into the Dunbar-Lumber text message in basket, which is filling up fast and furious here like those movies. We'll do that. And then at 8 o'clock, we're going to talk to BC Lions owner Amar Doman.

It's a bye week for the Lions, so no game this weekend. We can talk to him about the situation with his team on the field, off the field, of course, preparations for the Grey Cup continue. They got a bunch of musical acts lined up for Grey Cup week now. That was announced yesterday. So Amar Doman at 8.

And then back to our regularly scheduled What We Learns at 8.30. We didn't do it yesterday. We'll then back to our regularly scheduled What We Learns at 8.30. We didn't do it yesterday. We'll do it today. Get your What We Learns in. Downbar Lumber text line is 650-650. Hashtag it WWL. And tell us what you learned over the last 24 hours in sports. You're listening to the Halford & Brough

Show on Sportsnet 650. 734 on a Wednesday. Happy Wednesday, everybody. Halpert Brough, Sportsnet 650. Halpert Brough of the morning is brought to you by Vancouver Honda. Vancouver's premier destination for Honda customers. They have a friendly, knowledgeable staff that can help with anything you're looking for. Sales, financing, service, or parts. knowledgeable staff that can help with anything you're looking for sales financing service or parts starting to get some news trickling in from around the national hockey league the most recent

news it's a two-parter for me uh one mike hoffman is going to edmonton on a pto and two mike hoffman still playing hockey. I did not know the second part of that equation. I forgot him entirely. And he spent last year in San Jose. Wow, yeah. I mean, he was there. How many games were you watching in San Jose?

As many as I could. How could I not? He played in 66 of them. Remember when Mike Hoffman was like a bona fide sniper in the NHL? I mean, yeah. That feels like a long time ago. Put the puck in the net for sure. Yeah. What else you got? Besides Mike Hoffman was like a bona fide sniper in the NHL. I mean, yeah. That feels like a long time ago. Put the buck in the net for sure. Yeah. What else you got?

Besides Mike Hoffman PTO news. Yeah. The Dallas made a couple moves yesterday. It was funny because Dallas actually made two big moves on their blue line, like two very important pieces of their blue line. They re-signed Issa Lindell and Thomas Harley. And all it reminded me was that I don't care about the Dallas Stars at all. I was like, oh, these are big moves.

Like, Issa Lindell's a huge part of their blue line, and Thomas Harley's a good young up-and-coming defenseman. They signed both of them. They gave them some pretty decent cash. I'm like, eh, okay. And then it reminded me that I don't care about the Dallas Stars. The Dallas Stars are going to be the exact same team, I think, for the rest of time.

I think they'll just be good. Probably. Yeah. That's it. Everyone's like, Half think, for the rest of time. I think they'll just be good. Probably. Yeah. That's it. Everyone's like, Halford, you idiot. They went to the Western Conference Final last year. How much of it has to do with you don't care about their fan base? I don't care.

I don't care about their fan base at all. One lick about the Stars fan base. No, not at all. I don't even know if it exists. I think the people in the- They get good crowds. Yeah, and those are the only people that care about the Dallas Stars. They go to every game.

That might be a thing, honestly. They're dedicated. They go to every game. That might be a thing. Honestly, they're dedicated. They go to every game. There's 18,000 of them. And there's like, there's that guy that bangs on the glass. He's their leader.

They love him. He loves them. They'll follow him anywhere. I mean, they're like, they're a good team. They're a good franchise. They're well run.

Jim Nill keeps winning general manager of the year. They have good players. They were fun when they would run and gun under Lindy Ruff they were more interesting yeah and it's weird

because now it's better we can't be doing this anymore and they had the two goalie thing remember that Kari Lettinen and Auntie Niemi do you think Lindy Ruff and Buffalo

is going to be an interesting storyline I do yeah me too and I'm we haven't really talked about it much but i i only think it's going to be interesting this sounds mean do you know how funny this is that they were i'm kind

of waiting for it to fail but okay well yeah that's everything buffalo yeah but don't you think it is hilarious that they fire lindy ruff like two decades ago or whatever it was. They go through this rebuild out in the wilderness, and then they eventually just like, what if we brought Lindy back? So Lindy Roth was dismissed in 2013, 11 years ago. I'll tell you what, this is a fun game we can do on the air. It would be like the Canucks totally struggling, never getting it back back and then just going

what's A.V. up? What are you doing? And A.V.'s like nothing. I'm not doing anything. I will buy you breakfast of your choosing. So McDonald's. If you can name every single Buffalo Sabres without looking. I can't. You could

probably try. Hold on. Lindy Ruff stopped coaching in 2013 and then he started again this year 2024 so 11 years i'll give you one two three four there's six coaches in 11 years which is a lot ralph kruger that is one uh dan balsma that's two granado that's three um did they bring back Ted Nolan? That's four. Oh, I'm getting closer. You are. Dan Balsma. Did I say that one already? You already said Dan Balsma. I'm very tired. That's fine.

Two more. You're missing two. Were they big names? Yeah, I would define a big name. Yeah, just tell me. Phil Housley. Oh, I always forget about Phil Housley. He is in the Hall of Fame.

What did he have in there with the... Buffalo head. He had the buffalo head, right? Didn't work. He wore it around. He didn't wear it. I got a lot of laughs, but not a lot of wins. And the one you're forgetting,

an unforgettable 51 games in charge, Ron Rolston. Yeah, that was the one. I knew there was one like that. Does everyone remember Ron Rolston's claim to fame? Yeah. He sent John Scott out to try and beat up Phil Kessel. That was his claim to fame.

We got a text in to the Dunbar Lumber text line. If Hoaglander doesn't have a good camp, do you think it would make sense to maybe trade him and Pullman's contract to free up cap space and add a pick if he's most likely going to be in the bottom six, especially with Lekermacky coming up, kind of same player type? I think that's...

Let's see how it plays out because there are so many factors in that that my initial response would be no. I'm not going to put too much on Hoaglander's training camp. Yeah, training camp doesn't matter for Nils Hoaglander. Yeah, I don't. Let's be clear. So no, but I am curious about the season that Hoaglander is going to have because he had such a good promising season.

The guy scored over 20 goals all at even strength last season. And he's a possible candidate to play with Petey and DeBrusque. So let's just wait. I know you're asking if he doesn't have a good camp, but I don't think camp should determine things for Nils Hoaglander. I just found it really odd how he didn't play well in the playoffs. I thought he'd be the type of guy that would bring some intensity.

You know what he looked? Just invisible. He wasn't part of the play. It was weird. His first one, right? No, it's not that. He probably wasn't able to keep up with that level of play. how does one go from scoring 24 other rookies have shown up in the playoffs it's not like it was your first one yeah it wasn't

a rookie well you know a playoff rookie his first how does how does one player go from scoring 24 even strength goals during the regular season to being a healthy scratch in the postseason that is like and i know it's our job to develop and report these stories. I think one of the most underreported and underdeveloped narratives from last year is how Hoaglander so quickly lost the trust of the coaching staff that he was a healthy scratch in the playoffs. He didn't have the time and space to do it in the playoffs. Do you know what? Was it losing the trust of the coaching staff or just not doing anything?

Whatever the case. No, no, but seriously, was it? Sometimes you have a guy in there and you don't trust them defensively in moments yeah and then sometimes this doesn't do anything right and and the Canucks remember they went through quite a few games where even getting a shot on goal seemed to challenge. Nashville was blocking all their shots. Edmonton played very well defensively. And the Canucks couldn't get shots.

And so we headed into the offseason going, well, Taka's going to have to rethink a little bit of this. He's going to have to get the power play fixed. But at five on five, they're going to need to create more rush chances. Now, to me, that sounds like an opportunity for Hoaglander. I'll say this oh he was okay he was maybe the best value contract in the entire national hockey league last year during the regular season like point to me someone else that gave that level of production especially at even strength like not getting a single goal on the power play doing it all at

evens yeah like that is for 1.1 million you could make the argument that nils hoge and listen to me nils hogelander was the best value contract in the entire national hockey league last season right look at what he did played in 80 games scored 24 goals look at some of the guys that he outscored at evens and those those guys are making upwards of six and $7 million a year. So that you'd say that's an asset we want to retain. Totally. He's inherently valuable to what we're doing. That is an amazing value contract.

And that same guy was a, he was a non-factor in the playoffs. Can you, is this a fair question to ask though? Ask it and I'll tell you. What is Hoaglander as a player? What is his identity as a player? What does he do?

That is a good question. You can't quickly answer it. I know, that's because it's a good question. Hard-nosed, net front presence. Is this you trying to make up for your terrible take from earlier? Yes, that's a good question. With a bit of a decent shot? Well, he's got a bit of an edge to him.

Yeah, he does have an edge. Does he bring that edge enough? Well, he didn't in the playoffs because he wasn't ready for that level of intensity. It caught him by surprise. He just wasn't able to show up to those moments because... You're inferring a lot. Well, you saw it. You saw it firsthand.

Were you inferring? What's going on? What do you mean inferring? You're not breaking any confidentiality. What are you talking about? What's going on? What do you mean inferring? You're not breaking any confidentiality. What are you talking about? You saw him play. He just wasn't able to keep up with the intensity level. That happens to guys.

It was his first playoffs. And a lot of the experiences and the goals that he got in the regular season aren't the kind of goals you necessarily score in the playoffs if you haven't had that experience before. I would have expected better from him. Yeah, me too. But, I mean, at the same time, it's just like, I get it. I mean, I think it was it.

Because with, hold on. You know how Pod Coles and Hoaglander got compared a lot, right? For me, the edge that I always gave Hoaglander was his energy. You know, his energy level, and then he brought energy. And that, as you said, he had a bit of an edge. It is concerning to me, even if it was his first playoff experience, that he couldn't summon that energy. Yes, I agree.

He was also healthied. That's a statement. Yeah. He just wasn't making the most of the opportunities given to him. Oh, and by the way, everyone that's writing in and saying that Conor Bedard

is a better value con... Stop. Stop. He's a rookie contract. Stop. There's also a lot of people trying to get you interested in the Dallas Stars. They're like, Wyatt Johnson is a top 10 player. Still don't care.

Hey, Wyatt Johnson's great. You make a good point, though. In a couple years, Johnson and the Stank Oven might be the guys that get people interested in the Stars again. Do you understand what I'm saying, everyone? How much of the fan base is it, though? I mean, you're interested in the Oilers now because i think a lot of people we have this rivalry with the fan bases right interesting in most of the canadian teams because of the long stanley cup drought and just you know the canadians and you know

for me a lot of it is um the history of the fan base for example buffalo interests me because they've been so beaten down and they're like the Canucks. They've never won a Stanley Cup being in the league for so long. And the fans are completely disillusioned. But Dallas, you're like, what? They've won a cup.

So they don't have that. Tick that box. They're typically relatively successful, although they had some down years. They've been through a little bit of ownership stuff, I suppose. But right now, Gilardi provides them with a solid, stable owner. Yeah. It's just kind of like, what's...

Besides the player... It sounds weird to say, like, besides the players on the ice. And first of all, the players on the ice, there's no, like, wow! Although, you know know some people will convince you about robertson or wyatt johnson yeah but but there's no what is an interesting what's the what's the narrative what's the hook for the dallas stars this year yeah it's their fault because they're too good actually they're just a good they're boring yeah and they're good and boring everyone keeps trying to suggest or infer we're doing a good they're boring yeah and they're good and boring everyone

keeps trying to suggest or infer we're doing a lot of inferring on the halford and brough show on sportsnet 650 this morning that um i somehow i'm dismissive of them because they're not good they are very they're very good i'm aware of how many games they win during the regular season and how far they advance in the postseason they're very good at what they do they're just not interesting to me in the slightest. Someone texted in, Hoaglander is 21, Jason. He's 23.

Yeah, that's wrong. Just factually wrong. Just factually wrong. I mean, God bless you for trying. He's going to be 24 if the Canucks make the playoffs. You know what? I actually like texts like that. He's 21.

I hope that's a joke. It's not wrong if you believe it enough. I mean, if you really think that he's 21 in a weird way, that's kind of how politics works now. He just replied, he's 23? Yeah. He's 19, guys. Leave him alone.

Yeah. But you know what? Going back to your question, though, it is a good one because every player sort of needs their calling card or their identity. Yeah, what is Nils Hoeglander as a player? I think he should be a guy that's – he should be a 20-goal scorer. That's what I think. But, like, what's his, like –

He should be able to score 20 goals for you. You know you classify a guy like, this guy's a sniper, this guy's a power forward, this guy's a whatever. Like, what is his, like, classification? He should be able to score 20-goal score. No, I mean, that's a style. What's his – Mason Raymond?

Mason Raymond would have – but Mason Raymond, I would have said speedy winger. Is Nils Hoeglander that? Nope. Well, he's speedy. He's not slow. But I don't consider him. He's not like a speedy winger. He's a pepper pot.

I think Shorty called him a pepper pot. Yeah, but this is bugging me now. What is his classification? Like, what is his, like... He's not a penalty killer. Get on the mic if you know. Arash? Yeah, Arash is flailing his arm.

No, this is exactly... I was talking to Greg. It's like, when you look at Nils Hoaglander as a player, 24 goals, wouldn't say he's a one-shot scorer, can't really be a playmaker. That's fair. F1 on the forecheck, but I wouldn't say wins a ton. He's not Yannick Hansen going in on the forecheck. He's not Yannick Hansen going in on the forecheck.

So I'm trying to just figure out one single comp and text in if you know, if you want to shoot your shot. But I've been trying to wrap my head around what is Niels Hoaglander as a player and when is he going to get there? I'm down the Mason Raymond rabbit hole now. But he's edgier than Raymond. Yeah, and he only scored 20 goals once in his career, Raymond. If you had told me how many times did Mason Raymond score 20 goals a day,

I don't know, five, six times? Once. He played on the line with Kess and was it Michael Samuelson? Mason Raymond was easier to define, though, because he's fast. Yeah, and he could also be like, Kess doesn't pass to anyone. That's right. I'll just circle around. So he's a power forward crossed over with a grinder,

crossed over with a sniper, crossed over with a skater. Nils Hoeglander is not a power forward. I know, but I'm saying. That is definitely one thing he's not. I know, but I'm saying you throw all these into a blender, and he's got a bit of power to him. He's got a bit of a goal-scoring bit of power to him we just had a goal scoring thing going but nothing that nothing like really really defines him this is really bothering me

and okay i'm gonna dive in bother you that much it's just you got you got to find your identity as a player and i think he's been searching for it a little bit there was times when you would describe him as oh this guy's skilled ultra skilled there have been times when you might define him as oh he has a bit of a pest in him maybe he's maybe he's the next i don't know burrows or hansen or whatever you know i think by the way but everyone writes their own story he just has to write a more definitive story we just had a great conversation with Manny Malhotra about that. Some of these texts.

Someone just called him a power Granlund. Hey, that's not bad. Power Granlund. I like that. That's not terrible. Power Granlund. Oh, man. Yeah, it's very interesting because he's at the stage of his career where the

the definition sort of needs to happen yeah but it hasn't yet but there's a lot of guys in the connect system like that yeah what is lenis carlson what is oh lenis carlson is a safe player he's a safe player well that didn't work out for pods no i know but the they also didn't spend the 10th overall pick on lenus Carlsen, right? That's the big difference. Okay, I think I got it. He is a goal-scoring pest. He's a pest, but he also scores goals a bit,

which is a weird thing because usually it's one or the other. I'm going to go with Nat. Okay, sure. Like G-N-A-T. He's not pesky enough. Yeah, he's not pesky enough. He can be, though. But he's not like a full-time pest. You have to bring that on a game-by-game basis. But that's where pesky enough. Yeah, he's not pesky enough. He can be, though. But he's not like a full-time pest.

On a game-by-game basis. But that's where the crossover comes. Like, so sometimes he's a little pesky, sometimes he's a little goal-scoring. You know what? You know what? Pesty's a word. Pesty's a word. You know what coaches love?

Is when they don't know what to expect of a player. On a game-to-game basis. Hey, Nils, where are you going to be tonight? Coach, I'm thinking Pest. Yep. Do a little Pesting tonight. And then the next night, hey, Hogan, are you going to be a Pest again?

I don't know. He's got a big hat, a hockey helmet with a bunch of words in it. You can pull it out of the hat. Pest tonight. Someone just texted in, Nils Hoeglander is only 17 years old, you guys. I also think most GMs are asking the same questions we are. As a trade chip, we don't really know what Nils Holglinder is,

and I think across the NHL, they're also waiting for that definition of what he's going to be. Yeah. You know what, actually? A value player right now is a fine classification, and it's a fine classification. And it's a temporary tag. You rip it off when his next contract is up. But that could be a great value find for someone else.

I understand why he would be a potential tradable asset. I personally don't think that the connection to that entertainment, I think that there's something more to give there. I think part of the conversation that we're having might actually in a weird way be part of his evolution. Like, hey, if we're going to have internal growth and we're going to have improvement within the team, part of your improvement is going to be figuring out

exactly what do you say you do around here? South Islander Dan says, Nils Hoeklander is a bee in your bonnet. Yep, that's a pepper pot. That's in the same classification. So sometimes we get texts into the show that just like punch you in the face. Okay. With their logic.

Okay. I like where this is going. And I don't. Oh, it's kind of mean. But Coach D texted in. What's up, Coach D? And said, what's up, D? What's up, D? What's up, D?

Hoaglander is early years Marchant. Brad Marchant was 22 when he was lighting up the Canucks in the Stanley Cup final. Are you the same guy that texted in he's the Swedish Crosby? Someone texted that in. I will let Coach D Coach D also says he's 21 continue his comments what people are forgetting is when he got benched

Rick Tockett said he had to get back to playing his game and when he got back in the lineup Rick Tockett said he had to stop trying so hard to help Petey get back on his game and play his game as his game went sideways when Petey was struggling I will acknowledge that maybe there's a relationship

between Hoaglander's play and Pedersen's play. Fine. But he's not early years Marchand. Marchand was an absolute game breaker who showed up in the playoffs, like it or not, and was an absolute force. I think he scored the goal that ultimately won the Bruins the cup. It happened in game six. It was the first goal of the game.

It went in on Luongo. I don't think the Canucks ever had a chance after that. The guy was... Okay. So I'm going to just, maybe I'll just move past this. Someone texted in like uh thomas holmstrom now holmstrom it might be a bridge too far because he was like the definitive net front presence of his era and he went for like close to 30 goals a few years

and he was bigger like here's the thing with hoaglander is he's tiny. That's where the pepper pot and the bee in the bonnet thing comes in. He's 5'9", 165. People text me, what was Burroughs? Well, Burroughs started out as an agitator and a consistent agitator who developed into a good checker and was a reliable penalty killer, which Hoaglander is not. And then Burroughs grew his game so much and was such a smart player like an unbelievably smart player hockey iq off the charts um played with

passion played with like it was everything was personal and he became such a smart player that he ended up um on one of the best lines in hockey with the Sedins. That was Burroughs. Burroughs also scratched and clawed and bit his way from nowhere. Nice guy Tyson. Hogs is what Burroughs would have been without the Sedins. Goal scorer, pest. And obviously when Burroughs got in with the Sedins, it was perfect for him, but it's sort of in that moment.

Okay, I'm always loathe to use Burroughs as a comp for anybody. But I think that's pretty fair. I'm not saying Hoaglander is Burroughs prototypical exactly. Dude, he's not even close. If you were to try and classify, though, goal-scoring pest. Look, part of Burroughs' DNA was where he had to come from and what he had to fight through to get to where he was. For sure.

Right? Hoaglander was like the 40th overall pick in his draft class. He had pedigree. He was expected to do something. It inherently doesn't make sense. That's why I don't like using Burroughs. There's going to be one Alex Burroughs. Burroughs made himself an invaluable member of the team early on

by playing a very different role than what he eventually played with the Sedans. He came in and did whatever was needed of him. Yeah, right. And that was be an agitator, kill penalties, check. First season, I think he had like seven goals in 43 games. He was 24 then. So there's still time for Hoaglander to do this. None of us are writing off Nils Hoaglander in

this conversation. I think what we're talking about and it's going to happen with or needs to happen with a bunch of these. Like what is Baines going to be? What are you going to be for this team? How are you going to help this team? You know what?

And it's basically up to those guys to figure out their identity and so the coach knows when to put them out on the ice and in what ways they can help. You know what you do is you tell Nils Hoeglander what you're going to be and you're going to be the next version of Patrick Hornquist. That's it. He's Horny. Horny was like an absolute load of a human being.

Wasn't really. He's 5'11", 189. Played heavy, man. Yeah, well, there you go. That's what I'm saying. How about you just, how about you don't say any other names? How about you just say,

make yourself invaluable to this team one way or the other. Or be like Sidney Crosby. Or be like McDavid. That would help. That would really help us like mcdavid that would help that would really help us uh coming up in the that would be great coming up in the eight o'clock hour we're going to talk to amar doman the owner of the bc lions lions are on a bi-week but there's still plenty to talk about with this football team uh that's coming up at eight and then at

8 30 what we learned's humanoid edition before we do any of that though i need to tell you about jan pro the leaders in commercial cleaning and janitorial if your workplace demands a clean What We Learn's Humanoid Edition. Before we do any of that, though, I need to tell you about JanPro, the leaders in commercial cleaning and janitorial. If your workplace demands a clean environment, contact JanPro for a free no-obligation quote. Visit them online at janpro.ca. You're listening to the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650.