Halford & Brough in the Morning - Where Does Ego Fit In Sport?

Episode Date: October 1, 2024

In hour two, Mike & Jason talk some hockey with NHL analyst Ray Ferraro (3:50), plus the boys are joined by BC Lions wide receiver Terry Williams ahead of Friday's game versus the Stamps (26:25).  This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

702 on a Tuesday right it's big day on Tuesday you're listening to the Halford and Breff show on Sportsnet this was the song song at Ray's high school graduation. You should. He was a good dancer. Real swinger. Yeah. You're listening to the Halford and Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. Halford and Brough of the Morning is brought to you by Vancouver Honda.

Vancouver's premier destination for Honda customers. They have a friendly, knowledgeable staff that can help with anything you're looking for. Sales, financing, service, or parts. We are in Hour 2 of the program.

Hour 2 is brought to you by Jason Hominuk from Jason.Mortgage. If you love giving the banks more of your money, then definitely don't let Jason shop around to find the best mortgage for you. That's Jason.mortgage.

Not.com, not.ca, but.mortgage. We are coming to you live from the Kintec studio. Kintec Canada's favorite orthotics provider powered by thousands of five-star Google reviews. So, feet, what are you waiting for? Kintec. I know this is hard to believe, but sometimes when you get up early in the morning

and you're not very good at broadcasting, you trip over some words. You create some words. It's like an amalgam of other words. I believe I created the word unseedly. No, unseedy. Unseedy. That's what you called Pete Rose's's life unseedy i wanted to say

it was kind of like that poison song unskinny bop unsightly and seedy mixed i want no i wanted to say unseemly or unsavory here no unseemly that's the word yeah not appropriate yeah unseemly i was like i saw pete rose's life it was not unseedy. It was, in fact, quite seedy. There were some seeds. I met Pete Rose once. What was that experience like? You saw him in Vegas, right? Was he signing autographs?

That's what he did, right? He was only in Vegas for a handful of things. Was he next to a slot machine? No, he was on the floor. I can't remember what casino it was in, to be honest. But it was 2006. I remember this because we were down there right around the same time that the Oilers were playing the Carolina Hurricanes in the Stanley Cup Final.

And so there was this, I don't want to call it an aura, because that's probably not the right term, but there was a certain aura. It was still Pete Rose. A vibe. It was still very. Here's the thing. When I was was talking about aside from the unseedly part from earlier when i was what i was talking about was for people for people of our age and our ilk pete rose was he kind of was an oj type figure and that he crossed over from sport into infamy, right? All the characters that were involved, right?

Bart Giamatti, the commissioner that ultimately had to ban him, right? Yeah. Father of actor Paul Giamatti, which is very interesting. The Dowd Report, which was the multi- Jim Dowd wrote it. Nick Dowd wrote it. Nick Dowd wrote it. All of these things were on, they were on CNN.

And it was just like common like parlance. It wasn't just about sports. And Pete hung around some interesting characters too. And he was defiant, which was the crazy part. Like he was dead to rights by the Dowd report, but he refused to acknowledge certain. He never really took responsibility for any of his actions. Except when he wrote his book, right?

Let's bring in Ray into this conversation. Joining us now, and we're very happy to have him on the show, not just this week, but this entire season, our NHL insider, Ray Ferraro, joins us now on the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. Good morning, Ray. How are you? I'm good. Morning, guys. How are you? I'm good. Morning, guys.

How's everything? Things are good. We're going to start with Pete. We're going to throw you right in the fire with Pete Rose. Obviously, for those that are tuning in, they're like, why are they talking about Pete Rose? Pete Rose passed away yesterday at the age of 83, and we were talking about it prior to going to break.

There was a time in the late 80s and early 90s where he was maybe the most famous and infamous athlete on the planet. There, you know, like when that whole story broke, you know, to all of us that were, you know, we're just fans or whatever, like it seems so unbelievable and then, oh, gee, how bad could it be? And, you know, because there is no information. You think you know things, but you really don't.

And then as more and more evidence came out, and you mentioned the Dowd report, when that came out, it was like, man, they have the betting slips. They have the phone that he called from in the clubhouse or just up the walkway. I felt anyway, I almost didn't want to believe it because he was such a great player. We see it all the time now. It was less then, but the intersection of what you build a person to be and what he really is and there's you know there's such difference to all of that and for pete rose for me like i i couldn't stand him

like as a as a player i'm a red sox fan so you know from the 1975 world series i just couldn't stand him because he was so good and he was so relentless and he was so in your face all the time and he played his whole career like that he managed like that when this story broke he attacked the story like that you know like his defense was to attack and it it was sad to see because if there was a point at the in time when if you went to Vegas and you went into, I forget which hotel it is, he was sitting in like a corner. He had a friend that ran a memorabilia shop and he was sitting in there signing whatever people would bring. Like that's how he was making his income. It was really just an unbelievable story that took on like decades and decades and decades of time. And it just never went away.

It was a sad, sad story, really. Is there an NHL comparable to that? Or maybe a guy that you played with. It doesn't have to be to the extent of Pete Rose, where he was so driven and so obsessive about the game, so competitive, and so much of his self-worth came from being admired for the way that he played. And he was good, but ultimately his ego proved also to be a bit of a downfall as well. I don't think like this like i mean like i i think if if you play if if you get to be lucky enough to play at a pro sport there is

there is certainly a an ultra hyper competitiveness that that i i don't know too many players that play golf for fun or play cards for fun, or like, it just doesn't happen that way. There's also an ego to it because the better you get, the more people pay attention to you, the more people are kind of interested in everything that you do. Some guys just can't turn it off ever. And like, there's, there's all kinds of stories i mean i'm

not gonna there's there's no names to mention but there's guys that you know guys that are like their their compulsiveness like they can never shut it off and whether it's you know gambling uh playing cards just like constantly um like you know like i, playing cards, just like constantly. Like, you know, like I, I, I go to Vegas. I love it. I love it. But I can leave there and leave it there. And back then there was, there was no internet gambling. You know, there was no internet really. So guys, everybody was with a bookie if they were going to bet. And if you were with a bookie if they were going to bet.

And if you were with a bookie like Pete Rose was, then it wasn't legal. So you've got this ego and the competitiveness and the fact that you're doing something that everybody knew was going on, but it wasn't really altogether okay. Like Pete just never could shut it off. I mean, it's very clear. He just never, ever could shut it off. And so as for it being in hockey, I mean, I'm sure there's stories in the alumni of guys that were similar. I mean, there has to be. Like why would sports be any different than anybody else yeah right it's like it just wouldn't be other and you mix in the fact that guys have money

they had time you would be interested in the other sports i mean like it's many now you can see where how when it's available how pervasive it is. It's everywhere. You could have bet on that Dolphins game if you wanted last night. I don't know what the hell you would have bet on. For the first time, I'm like, oh my God, look at this. There's two lousy games on. At least I can change.

Oh good, the Canucks started. I can change over. But it doesn't matter people bet on whether that guy could throw a six-yard completion right like it's it was out of control for Pete most people could put it back in the box and he just couldn't I sometimes wonder what it's like for young players to go into an NHL room for the first time, maybe they're rookies. And even if they're pretty competitive guys,

just to be hanging around with the guys that have made it, right? These are the guys that are in the NHL. They're making a living in the NHL. Some of them might be stars. It must be very intimidating at times with some of those personalities in there do you have any any memories of of your first time in an NHL room meeting some guys and being like oh my god these guys are gonna rip my head off if I if I crossed my first day my first day I got called up nobody knew I got called up of course there was no news I was in the locker room and um one of the guys

walks in I'm sitting in Mark Johnson's stall because Mark was hurt. I got called up when, when, when he was injured. And so I'm sitting in the stall and the guy walks in, he goes, what are you doing here? And I was like, I don't know. Mark got hurt. I'm they called me up and everything was to you. I felt like I was on my back foot the entire time. Like I was scared to death of these guys. I was 20 years old.

They were all these men and I was just like a kid and it's terrifying. Like it's not just the, it's how much older they are. And just think like when you're, when you're our age, five years, doesn't matter when you're 20 years old five or six years is forever like they're in a different part of life like i remember thinking you know one of one of my in the group of guys that i played with right away was joel quenville and i always felt joel was like so much older me. He's like five years older than me. Right?

Like I had no idea. He seemed like he was 15 years older than me. And it wasn't just him. It was like guys like Greg Malone and Pat Boutette, all these guys that I was just starting at. You go into that room, there is zero chance most players feel at all comfortable. None. You don't know who to talk to. You don't

know who to sit beside. Then you start, you know, guys are starting to get prepped for the game and you're with one eye, you're kind of watching around. What's everybody doing? Like, are they going to think what I'm doing is goofy? At least that's what I was like. I was, I was terrified. It was not, it was not an easy, it's not an easy transition because as much as guys, hey, welcome to the team, immediately it's like 20 individuals because everybody's got to do their own thing to get ready. Yeah, I remember we had KJ Wright on of the Seattle Seahawks and we were talking about it was at the time when Russell Wilson was really going through his divorce from the Seahawks. And we were talking about it. It was at the time when Russell Wilson was really going through his divorce from the Seahawks. And I think we can all admit that those Seahawks teams, even though they were great and they won a Super Bowl

and they should have won another, they had a lot of big egos on that team. And I asked him a question. At the end of the day, is an ego good for a professional athlete or bad and alfred do you remember his response he was like totally stumped he was like hmm wait a minute like that's a really good question because in a lot of ways your ego is what drives you to get to where you are and drives you to keep being competitive but it can also lead to a lot of issues. It can lead to almost some delusion.

And I sometimes wonder if that happened with a guy like Russell Wilson. Where do you stand on that, Ray? Well, ego is everywhere. And in sport, you have to remember, you're the only defense you have. So in most cases, if somebody's criticizing you, which when I say criticizing you, it's about your play, right? Like, hey, you're not doing this, or you need to do that. The ego in you is always to fight back.

It's always, because that's how you got to the point to be in that room is that you always fight. You never, I had a way, I'll get to this in a sec, but I had a way that everybody that I came across, I was fighting. They didn't know it, but I was in a fight with them. And that was great for 18 years in my career. It was great. And then it took me 10 years after I retired to realize this is terrible to live every day with. Like I literally, like Jason, we've played golf. Like, yeah, I know you fought a five once. I saw it get beaten into the ground. It lost. It lost.

And then I never used it for a while. I really taught it a lesson. But the energy that you need or that I needed to fight every day and fight everybody is not good. It was good to survive in pro sports as long as i did but it's not it's not good and so in a locker room if you have enough of that and you have enough guys like you said about delusion there are guys there is self-importance in a locker room that guys don't understand till when they leave and they're like what was i doing you know like you're you you're the most important thing and yet really you're not and so the the the great leaders of the sport are able to lead

they all have ego of course they do but they're able to to park it and to be part of the part of the group like they don't stand out. And I played for a short time with the Rangers, and I know Vancouver fans don't have much fond to think about Messier, but he never did anything that, when I was there, that made you think he was above in stature. He just was. He just was he just was and so while he his ego would have helped drive

the way he played and the way he went about things it wasn't like that in the room he did not treat you like that not in the time i was in new york and so in a football locker room, could you imagine the ego and that energy in a 53-man locker room? It would be really hard for it to be in check. So ego is everywhere in sport. I think it's everywhere probably most places, but it's hard to check it it's really hard to check it and for some it never stops it seeps over like i just said it seeps over into your personal life you don't even know it does you don't even know it does i look back honestly like six seven eight years ago and i'm like what the hell was i doing what the hell was i doing and there's there's very little now that pisses me off compared to, you know, compared to just about everything that did,

including change a wind direction a while ago. We're speaking to our NHL analyst, Ray Ferraro here on the Halford and Brough show on Sportsnet 650, talking about internal fight and the competitive juices still flowing. Maybe even some ego. I want to turn our attention to what's going on in Boston right now. Did, I guess,

to a lesser degree, Don Sweeney, and to more of a degree yesterday, Cam Neely, did they overstep by what they're saying and doing about Jeremy Swayman and the contract negotiations? I don't know about overstep, but man, somebody's playing semantics here, right? Like somebody's splitting the hair.

Yep. Because they either offered him $64 million or they didn't. And that's really up to the agent and the team. However, the team brought it out into public. So that offer, if the ask for Swayman was eight times eight, like if that's what it was, then they should call today and say, yeah, done, deal's done. If that's what their ask is.

If it's more, well, then they have a difference of opinion still. Now, this is where I stand on this. They had this goalie duo that incredibly fit as well as it did. We know that doesn't always happen, right? Here we are back to ego, and part of it is ego. Part of it is, hey, my career is sliding by, and I need the net. I'm good enough for it. So it fit.

They traded Allmark. Now you've got one option. They can tell their fans and anybody they want that they're going to be fine with Jonas Corpus Allo, and he will be better than he was because the Bruins play such a good team game, but he's not even close to where Jeremy Swayman is. The people that argue that, oh, he's only played 132 NHL games, what gives him the right to make this big stand?

Dylan Gunther just signed for eight times at seven or whatever in Utah. This happens with players all the time. Players used to go from entry-level contract, bridge contract, big contract. Now they go entry-level contract, big contract. Swayman's one of the best goalies in the league. I do a lot of Bruins games. I think this guy is fantastic. I think they've boxed themselves in a corner here. And I don't know Jeremy Swayman particularly well, but I do know that he's a pretty strong kid. Like he's not going to be shoved into the corner here and say,

oh, I better take this or I'm not going to get anything else. I was quite surprised that the Bruins took the pact that they did publicly. I mean, they can do whatever they want in the negotiation. They're trying to fine you for as little as they can, and you're trying to make as much as you can. And it's just the way it is. But I found it really odd that they came out as angry. Whether they appeared to be or wanted it to appear to be,

it comes out as angry and there's now you've pitted the player against the team I don't mean the guys in the room the guys are fine they don't they'll all get by that

but you've pitted them against the team and now you've got the fans will always support the team over the player because you're a fan of the team not the player not necessarily because players change I mean people have been Canucks fans since 1970 Because you're a fan of the team, not the player. Not necessarily.

Because players change. I mean, people have been Canucks fans since 1970. Players have come and gone, and they are Canucks fans. And so I think it's a dangerous tact. And if they get to the point where they have to trade Jeremy Swayman, they're going to spend the next decade looking for Jeremy Swayman. Did you ever have a really tough or contentious contract negotiation? Did you ever send Steve Bartlett in there and like knives and daggers and get

the job done? And it was a loggerheads or a stalemate? No, but I have, I have, I am the worst. I was the worst guy to have to negotiate for because I always had my big year the year after I signed. Come on, Ray. Come on, man. What a dummy. I signed my first contract. Actually, so I signed my first contract.

My entry-level salary was $70,000, $80,000, $90,000, and $20,000, $22,500, $25,000 in the American League. So Alan Eagleson somehow was my agent. I don't even know how he was my agent, but he was my agent at that time. And one morning, I'm lying in bed, phone rings, and he calls, he goes, and, you know, he never talked to me. And so I'm like, what's going on? He's like, yeah, the deal's done three years at $125,000 per year. I didn't even know I was negotiating. Like he just did the contract.

And I was like, so I hung up, and I'm like, well, I guess that's okay or good or I, you know, I didn't know. And then the next year I scored 40 goals. And so they made a rule. Well, they had a rule. I fired, well, I fired him. He went to jail. So I didn't think he was going to use my one phone call to call for, you know, to negotiate a contract.

So I get, I hire Steve Bartlett, and one of the great people in the game. Steve is just a wonderful man. And so this is when you say, were we fighting over a contract? They came up with this rule that they couldn't double my salary. There's no rule.

They just said, we never double salaries. So I couldn't double my salary. There's no rule. They just said, we never double salary. So I couldn't get to 250. They said they could go right around 200. I was in camp and they were arguing over $8,000. Could you imagine? And so I thought, well, we got to stand firm, stand firm for eight grand. So I got 200 grand with my next on track. There were no, the only negotiation I had was when I was a free agent after leaving the Islanders. Right. And now, so that was fun because I actually had a couple of teams bidding and, and they weren't bidding a hundred grand anymore. So it was, it was kind of night, but nothing like this, man, I would have,

I would not have been what, I would not have been as well suited as Jeremy Swayman is for this. That's for sure. Ray, this was awesome. This is going to be awesome. We're very excited to have you on the show this season. Enjoy the rest of the day and the rest of the week. We'll do this again next Tuesday.

You betcha. It looks like last week of weather for a bit, so got to get going here. 9-18 on the tee. Got to squeeze it in. Play well, buddy. Be nice to your clubs, okay? Always good to them now. See you, guys. Thanks, Ray.

That's NHL analyst Ray Ferraro here on the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. It's Ferraro Tuesday on the Halford & Brough Show because Landon is going to join us at 8 o'clock. He's going to be more of the Canucks analyst and insider for the show. Cause he of course is going to be working here on sports net six 50 across a few of the different shows.

He's also going to be doing some TV work with Murph on the panels as well. For Raro Tuesdays. Yep. We can definitely work on a jingle. It's not like we don't have any in the rotation. So he's going to be joining us at eight coming up on the other side, BC lions kick return to Terry Williams. We'll also take an opportunity to go around some stories we might've missed.

We can dive into the Dunbar Lumber text message in basket. A reminder, if you want to weigh into the show and tell us what you learned over the last 24 hours in sports, the Dunbar Lumber text line is six 50, six 50. It's your chance to be on the radio. That opportunity is going to come up at 8.30

when we do our What We Learns and then we turn it over to the humanoids for their What We Learns. So Terry Williams coming up next, Landon Ferraro at 8, and then What We Learns at 8.30. That's all coming up on the final 90 minutes of the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650.

Canucks Talk with Jamie Dodd and Thomas Drance. We'll dive deep into all that's happening with the Vancouver Canucks. Listen 12 to 2 p.m. on Sportsnet 650. Canucks Talk with Jamie Dodd and Thomas Drance. We'll dive deep into all that's happening with the Vancouver Canucks. Listen 12 to 2 p.m. on Sportsnet 650 or wherever you get your podcasts. 7.34 on a Tuesday. Happy Tuesday, everybody. Halford Brough, Sportsnet 650.

Halford Brough of the Morning is brought to you by Vancouver Honda. Vancouver's premier destination for Honda customers. Has a friendly, knowledgeable staff that can help with anything you're looking for. Sales, financing, service, or parts. We are in Hour two of the program. BC Lions kick return to Terry Williams is going to join us in just a moment here. Hour two is brought to you by Jason Hominuk

from jason.mortgage. If you love paying too much for your mortgage, then don't let Jason shop around to find the perfect mortgage for you. Visit him on the internet at jason.mortgage. To the phone lines we go. Our weekly BC Lions guest is kick returner Terry Williams. He joins us now on the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650.

Good morning, Terry. How are you? Good morning. I'm good. How about yourself? We are good as well. Thanks for taking the time to do this. Let's start with the mood of your football team.

It was obviously a disappointing loss to Hamilton over the weekend. Just curious to find out how the guys felt in the immediate aftermath of blowing that lead. What the mood was of the BC Lions after a disappointing night at BC Place. Get to work, get back to work. Right now, everybody got all hands in on deck to get this thing going how we want to get it going. Every day of practice, all the energy is up. Everybody's locked in, focused, ready to come to work. No excuses are being made. Everybody taking responsibility and putting their head down

and going to get it. When you blow a lead in the way that your team did, how tough is it to bounce back with that mentality that you're talking about where it's like, we have to flush it, we have to put it behind us, we have to get going to work, knowing that you're close to the end of the regular season and it's about making the playoffs and getting better. At the same time, you blew a really good opportunity

to get a win against Hamilton on Friday. You have to flush it fast because you don't have many opportunities left and if you sit and dwell on it, you can mess up your next opportunity. So I had this group of players, we have a group of guys, the leaders we have on the team,

we all just try to band together and tell each other, you know, we've got another opportunity coming up, you know, Friday right around the corner. So you can't sit and dwell on it. You know, it's hard, you know, losing like that. But the guys that we've got around us, the coaches that we've got around us, we all still believe 100% that we can get it done. Your coach said after the game that you guys need to do a better job

of responding in the game to things that don't go your way. Did that happen a little against the Hamilton Ticats in that the game started to turn and you weren't able to turn it back? I'd say it happened a little bit. You know, like all phases, you know, we just got to stay locked in. Even when it don't go your way, stay locked in, stay with it. You know, that's what, you know, every team in the league has their ups and downs.

And when it don't go their way, you know, some things, you know, some players, you know, has their ups and downs. And when they don't go that way, you know, some things, you know, some players, you know, they drift away from it. But I feel like we got it, you know, we just got to stay with it through all four quarters and we'll show that. Terry, you might be the best kick returner in the CFL. What makes you so successful at it? The guys up front, you know, and my coaching staff. Like, they make, you know, and my coaching staff, like, they make, you know,

make a scheme and, you know, we all buy into it. Everybody, you know, believes that, you know, it'll be a good return every time we touch it. And, you know, you just can't be scared when you touch it. You hit the hole running. What was it like when you first came up to Canada and you had all the different rules, the different field? Was it more fun to be a kick returner or less fun? What's the difference between the American style and the Canadian style? I'd say coming up here, I learned there was no fair catching, so you get more opportunities. So that's more fun.

You get more opportunities, you get more chances to make a play and help the team out. You get more chances to be on the field and showcase what you can bring to the team or how you can help in any way. So coming up, the rules, that was a big thing. But if you want to learn and you love the game, you're adapting.

It'd be fun. It'd be fun. What makes a good kick returner? Because it's not just purely about speed. Like, you got to know the rules of the game. Know the game. Because you put yourself in a great position if you know the rules, know the game.

And also, like, having, like, you got to be fearless sometimes. It's like going on interstate against ongoing traffic. You got to be fearless. You can't,

you know, can't be scared, you know, to take a hit or deliver a hit. You know, sometimes, it might,

you know, every time not going to be a big, you know, a breakaway play, you might got to, you know, end the play with the ball.

So, they coming for the ball. So, just, you got to know how to have some heart. Have you always been fearless, or did you have to learn that? I always had it, but you have to learn it at the beginning. As a kid, you'd be the smallest person in the group, so they're going to try to come hit you hard.

They're going to try to come throw everything. They got to hit you small as possible. Can't be scared. You want to be out here with everybody else, right? Can you remember a time that you got hit so hard that – well, maybe you don't remember it, but you got hit so hard that you're like, oh, my God, I do this for a living? Yeah, it happens every year.

You get hit. You get up laughing. I get up laughing, though, if I get hit. It's funny. The BC Lions are in action. Later this week, it is a chance to right the wrongs from last week against the Calgary Stampeders. Terry, thanks a lot for taking the time to do this today.

We really appreciate it. Best of luck this weekend against Calgary. Go get a win. Thank you. Thank you. That's BC Lions kick returner Terry Williams here on the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. Okay, let's circle back onto the Vancouver Canucks stuff.

So for those that missed it last night, 3-2 shootout loss to the Oilers with a pretty depleted slash shorthanded lineup. So instead of looking back on what the Canucks did or didn't do last night with a lot of regulars out of the lineup, let's look ahead to what's coming this week, both decisions and the final regular season game, which is going to be yet again against the Edmonton Oilers.

Final preseason game. What did I say? Regular season game. Final preseason game. Yeah. So say? Regular season game. Final preseason game. Yeah. So the Canucks are going to practice today. And I do wonder if we'll see some decisions on cuts, waivers. The waivers thing is always interesting

because you want to time it the right way, especially if you're worried about losing particular guys. But there are just so many things that are in flux right now for the Vancouver Canucks. I'm not worried that JT Miller hasn't played a preseason game. I think he'll probably play on Friday against the Oilers. And even if he doesn't play Friday, I'm pretty sure he'll be ready to start the regular season.

He's probably dealing with some sort of bump or bruise, but nothing serious if he's still out there practicing. Maybe a bump and bruise. Maybe, yeah. Maybe there's two bumps and one bruise. I don't know. I'm not too worried about that.

But a guy like Teddy Bluger is a little bit different because he actually like, Canucks came out before training camp and said, well, this guy actually had a procedure and he is week to week with a lower body injury. So you're a little less certain about that. And whether or not Teddy Bluger could be in the lineup on opening night has a huge effect

on whether a guy like maybe Atu Ratu makes the team or not. Yeah. I'm trying to. And then if you're talking about, well, we still want to have Ratu on the team, but Bluger's ready to go, then are you willing to do something like put Nils Amon on waivers? And I know we had a lot of people texting into the Dunbar Lumber text line and saying like, you know, Nils Amon, he's a dime a dozen type of player.

Put him on waivers. If you lose him, I'm fine. Okay, but then if you run into more injuries with your centers, then you've depleted your organizational center depth. And I think Nils Amon, he might not be the flashiest player, but I think he's an NHL player, and he can go out there and do things like kill penalties. And I think you want to have more of those than less of those

in your lineup throughout a long regular season where injuries do happen yeah i kind of i lend it more towards if it comes down to that kind of decision and we're we're talking about you know 12 13 forwards on the team there's two schools of thought that you have to um kind of present here one is what's best for ratu who let's make no mistake has been the best story of this preseason is that fair to suggest that that's fair to throw kind of present here. One is what's best for Ratu, who let's make no mistake, has been the best story of this preseason. Is that fair to suggest? That's fair to throw at them, right? I don't think with any hyperbole or anything like that.

That has been the best development of this preseason. The dangling carrot for a guy like Ratu is, and this is really an organizational thing as well. Do we reward that guy for the work he put in in the offseason and then coming in and kind of kicking the door down by allowing him to walk through said kicked door? Do we give him a shot in the NHL out of camp? Has he earned it?

Because it's not really in that conversation, it's not just about Ratu. It says it to the rest of the guys. I mean, Arshdeep Baines kind of did the same thing last year. He forced his way into the mix to get a handful of NHL games, right? There's also the reality of managing a team in the salary cap era. And hence comes the other part of the conversation here,

which is, are you willing to potentially, potentially lose a player for nothing? Nils Oman. If you make this decision where he gets scooped up off waivers and other teams, like, sure, we'll take a shot on the he gets scooped up off waivers and other teams are like, sure, we'll take a shot on the guy. It's easy money and an easy decision for us.

And we need a center. Right. Those are the decisions that happen at this time of the year. Are they insignificant? Great, big picture, yeah, probably. But the reality of, and here's my first reality of the situation,

the reality of the situation is there's not a whole lot else to be decided on this team if there was other guys would be playing in more prominent positions like i think the miller thing is a case study more maybe just maybe in realizing that the preseason is too long there are too games. There's too much risk of very important guys getting hurt. You know what I started thinking about last night was, is the mindset and the mentality that exists with the organization

with Thatcher Demko perhaps reaching over to other parts and other players of the organization as well? Because part of the whole Demko thing is we love how hard he worked and how much he pushed himself to get to the level that he did but we also realize that there needs to be someone intervening to say hey you got to take a rest you got to take a break because right now our goals as an organization aren't about october november december or the message to the guy working Demko so hard.

Exactly. You need to give him a rest. Sure. And in this, here's the thing. I would not be surprised if there was a sort of mutual understanding between the club and JT Miller. You don't need these preseason games. You don't.

Yeah, especially if you've been banged up a little bit. There's no reason for you to go out there and risk it. We want to see some other guys anyway. You know when JT Miller needs to be at his freshest and his healthiest? Ideally, March, April, May, June. Right. Not now. Last season was different, though.

Last season was totally different. Last season was different. We were meeting pressure with pressure. When they lost 10-0 in the preseason, first game, red flags, alarm bells, this is a problem, right? We took the preseason differently. I wonder if the Oilers are going to take it a little bit differently this season because they went into last season, and remember, they were like,

cup or bust, cup or bust, cup or bust, and they almost pumped themselves up too much. And then when the losses started, it was like, cup or bust, cup or bust, cup or bust. And they almost pumped themselves up too much. And then when the losses started, it was like, uh-oh, are we panicking? We just talked to Terry Williams of the BC Lions. Yeah. I think that this season, with all the stuff that went on during this season, plus this dangling carrot of we've got to get to the Grey Cup. We've got to get to the Grey Cup because we're hosting the Grey Cup.

Our owners made big investment in this team. We've got to get there. It was almost like I feel like that's been hanging over them. Oh, I would say it has. I think more maybe over the coaching staff and the executive. Oh, and Nathan Rourke right now, I think. Yeah. You weren't brought in to finish second in the West and host one playoff game.

But you're brought in to get the team, first of all, get the team to the Grey Cup and then win it. So any football executive would probably know that what they asked Rourke to do was a tall order. Tall, right? You haven't played competitive games in 16 or 18 months. You haven't been around the team. Yeah, some

things are the same, but some things are different. And to get up to game speed in the middle of a season, I might add. It's not the beginning of the season for everyone. It's the beginning of the season for I might add, it's not the beginning of the season for everyone. It's the beginning of the season for Nathan Rourke, but not the rest of the CFL. It's a tall order. Yeah.

Even if you're an outstanding offensive player, that he is. So I do think that that dynamic hung over the Lions. To bring it back to the Oilers, the one thing that stood out for me from last year for them was they were trying to play how they wanted to play in the playoffs. Remember, they were working on these like sort of advanced defensive schemes and they had a new look on how they wanted to defend the zone. And they were putting the cart before the horse because they were like, we're going to start working on postseason stuff, having not secured the postseason berth because they thought that was a given. Yeah.

Then they had to fire Jay Woodcroft and then they flipped the switch and in the end it probably worked out to being a good thing for them because they they went through some adversity and came out right well they got a new coach and he worked out but it also cost them home ice advantage in the playoffs and they brought that up and jason gregor when we've had him on the show he's mentioned it several times like it came at a cost, for sure. Edmonton this year scares me, big time. I think that it's not quite the perfect storm, but it's about as close as you're going to get with – it's a team that's hungry because they got so close.

So close. And they're good. And they got guys to come on board for cheap in Arvidsson and Skinner. The Evander Kane thing with the wink, wink, nudge, nudge, that's good management. Whether you like it or not, it's a good way to manage it because I think that in certain facets, there's addition by subtraction with Evander Kane.

Totally. Why don't you just stay away from the team for a bit? I don't think it's the worst thing. I really don't. I think in the regular season, there's times where he can probably be more, not probably, he's more of a headache than he is a benefit to the team. But you also do that knowing like, well, we need him in the playoffs because of what he brings.

And then someone's like, question, what if we just brought him in for the playoffs? Can we do that? And now you see. No, we can do that and now you see now we can do that yeah so there's that part of it as well and you know i didn't think about it until uh ray brought it up it was oh it was wish sorry um dry saddle locking in it really did sort of give him that sense that like okay i guess everyone's staying yeah because i know that we all like kind of jokingly are suggesting like mcdavid should walk but he's not walking once once dry sidle

opted all in you know that mcdavid's next to follow and they're like let's go win together so david's not going to be like i'm leaving see you drive good luck i lied to you see i lied to you i don't want to be here anymore but you have to stay here so that's what's scary for me about edmonton and in the division you look at them it's like it's no team is perfect in the nhl i think it's almost impossible to build a perfect team in the cap era but but getting back to the decisions that the canucks have to make over the next little while you know i i always had an issue with if a young guy plays really well at training camp, we'll find a spot for you. I know. I know.

I know it does. I know. It kind of makes sense and you're thinking that's good for the culture of the team. You want to have everyone competitive. But it's not real life. It's very naive. It's not real life. It's very naive. It's not real life. And I think the Canucks made a lot of mistakes doing things the way they did

because, you know, if Atu Ratu doesn't make the team on the opening night roster, you can explain to him that we still really, really liked how you played and you will get your chance with us. It's a long season season you have a long career you will be on this team if you keep this up we're sending you down to abbotsford right now because right now i'm sorry we're just full and and just explain it to them it is funny that you bring it in that way it is funny that you know in those terms because it's almost like um it's the thing you tell your kids it's like if you work hard and you stay focused and you do all the right things you'll achieve the success you don't then

proceed to tell your kid you're like but there's a salary cap and your waiver is exact it's such a long season it's such a long season and there are going to be injuries and i don't know if some people think that training camp in the preseason is the only time you can improve as a team but that better not be the case you know let's bring it back to the Seahawks last night I saw some people on Twitter that were expecting me to come in and rip them for how they played defensively last night and And I'm sorry, I'm not going to do that. It's game four. Right.

A very tough assignment. They're missing a bunch of players. They've got a new head coach that has brought in a bunch of new ideas, new schemes. They got blown out on the defensive side of the ball by a very good Detroit team in a very tough environment, and it didn't look good, right? And Mike McDonald said afterwards, he owned it.

He said, that wasn't very good. And the player said, that wasn't very good. We didn't play very well. We're not the team we want to be yet. Yeah, but Mike McDonald was also you know it's week four yeah i mean he didn't say that but these things do take time and i think one of the things that was very impressive about the canucks last season is yes they got off to that i mean their first game was a really good start. They beat the Oilers. They smoked the Oilers. Remember that?

But I didn't really start buying what they were selling until about three months into the season because then they were actually playing like a legitimately good team. They had a lot of luck early on. They had a lot of good fortune and that's not me saying it. That's also Rick Tockett saying it and the management group saying it. They kept improving

as the season wore on. Yeah, they kept showing different facets. And you have to do that. You have to do that because it takes some reps. It takes some learning experiences or as Tock says,

a learning lesson. Like last night for the Seahawks, learning lesson. Yeah. Big learning lesson. You went up in the first three weeks against some not great quarterbacks and some not great teams you had miami coming to seattle and they were complete they were in disarray and they're still in disarray right and yeah you smoke miami great. Detroit is a different story. But it doesn't mean that the Seahawks are just like give up on the season because they went into Detroit and got smoked.

There's still room for improvement with this team. They're going to get some of those younger, or they're going to get some of those defensive players back. And Mike McDonald, hopefully, if he's the coach we all think he's going to be, he's going to keep coaching like Rick Talkett did last season. He wasn't like, well, we got through the first 10 games without collapsing.

I'm done here. He kept coaching. Okay, that is it for our two of the Halford and Brough show on Sportsnet 650. Coming up, the second half of Ferraro Tuesday. Landon Ferraro is going to join us on the other side. We'll go through all the major stories with the Vancouver Canucks, look back on last night's game,

look forward to the rest of the week, and the final preseason game later this week against the Edmonton Oilers. And before we go to break, I need to tell you about Tile Town. As BC's favorite hockey team kicks off a new season, receive 20% off any regular priced in stock tile. Visit them at my tile town.ca for details. Landon Ferraro coming up next on the Alfred and Rob show on sports net six

50.