Halford & Brough in the Morning - Where Does The Canucks Front Office Rank?

Episode Date: October 28, 2024

In hour two, Mike & Jason chat with The Athletic NHL's Michael Russo (1:46) on this year's front office rankings, plus they talk a memorable Week 8 with Too Deep Zone's NFL insider Mike Tanier (28:36). This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

7-0-1 on a Monday. Happy Monday, everybody. Halford Brough, Sportsnet 650. Halford Brough in the morning is brought to you by Pacific Honda, North Vancouver's premier destination for Honda vehicle sales and service. They have a friendly, knowledgeable staff that can help with anything you're looking for, be it sales, financing, service, or parts. We are in Hour 2 of the program.

Mike Russo from The Athletic is going to join us in just a moment here to kick off Hour 2. Hour 2 is brought to you by Jason Hominick from Jason.Mortgage. If you love giving the banks more of your money, then don't let Jason shop around to find the perfect mortgage for you. Just kidding. I'm being sarcastic. Let him do that. Visit him at Jason.Mortgage on the internet. We are coming to you live from the Kintec studio. Kintec, Canada's favorite orthotics provider,

powered by thousands of five-star Google reviews. So, Rafit, what are you waiting for? Kintec. Real quick before we get to Russo. Who is it? Keith the Grip texted in and said, you talked all that time, all that length about the World Series and didn't mention Shohei Otani's shoulder injury. Yeah, you're right.

It's a non-issue. Pardon me? It's a non-issue. They've announced he's playing. Yeah. So he did partially dislocate his left shoulder during game two. Do you use your shoulders when you swing a baseball bat? Occasionally. I'm all legs, baby. I'm all trunk. I'm all core.

So, yeah, he's going to play. But as Keith astutely points out, that may shut down whatever talk was left of Shohei pitching in the World Series. Okay, to the phone lines we go. Mike Russo from The Athletic joins us now on the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. Good morning, Michael. How are you? Good.

I can't even imagine being a player like Otani and being able to play with a shoulder injury. It just seems almost impossible to me. But obviously he's going to do it. They got magical drugs in professional sports, Mike. You can go. But yeah, it's going to be tough because, like, well, swing in particular, right? And his propensity for hitting bombs.

Yeah. But we'll see. I mean, I guess he's only got to do anything else. All he does is swing. That's true. No more steals for you, Shohei. No more sliding. Okay, Shohei, and no more sliding. Okay, let's get to your article.

For those that haven't seen it, you, along with a handful of other writers at The Athletic, Arthur Staple, Chris Johnson, and Scott Powers, compiled the top 10 NHL front offices, and it was through an exercise where you got the votes of 40 different NHL executives. So before we get to the rankings and who ranked high and who ranked low and who didn't rank at all, walk us through the methodology a little bit. How did you guys go about creating a panel, getting the votes, and then compiling this to come up with the top 10 front offices in the NHL as voted on by their peers. Yeah, the people we used were general managers, senior advisors, assistant GMs, and in a couple instances, some director of player personnel slash pro scouting.

Arthur Staple, Chris Johnson, Scott Powers, and I kind of divvied it up. And essentially, you know, had an initial list and then, you know, hit on those people. And then if all of a sudden, you know, had an initial list and then, you know, hit on those people. And then if all of a sudden, you know, of our, say, we initially came up with 60 people, if we only say got 30 of them, then we came up with some others. The biggest thing that we had to do that I thought was very important is because it was pretty obvious early on who the top five were going to be. And you couldn't vote for yourself. I wanted to make sure that those top five people had had people voting to make sure that all of a sudden they didn't take a downfall just because all of a sudden we got two or three people from that organization.

They couldn't vote for themselves. So that was the sort of what I thought was the biggest thing from an unscientific poll. And, you know, basically the way this is, the reason we're doing this is we've done the top 10 front offices in NFL, NBA, and Major League Baseball. And then at the end of the year, we're going to basically come up with the top 40 front offices in pro sports. And so it was an interesting panel. And what was really interesting is just seeing the respect level that especially those top five teams have. But then there were all of a sudden, you know, sort of off the board picks of people liking, you know, what Winnipeg's doing right now or what Vancouver is doing right now or what even Minnesota is doing right now with their albatross

of contracts. And so it was really fascinating talking to these people and almost workshopping it with them as they came up with their votes. Yeah, well, let's talk about the number one team, and it is the Dallas Stars longtime GM, Jim Nill. We talk a lot about the drafting that they've done in Dallas. But tell us what people said about the Dallas Stars front office. Yeah, I think you named it. I mean, first of all, it comes to the respect level of Jim Nill.

I mean, he's just known as one of the classiest people in all of hockey. You don't hear anybody ever say anything bad about him. But, you know, he's forged these great relationships throughout the league. When he tries to make trades, he tries to make them fair and not, you know, trying to quote, win a trade. But if you look up and down their lineup, they are filled with players that they have drafted. And

right now, they look like they've gotten to the finals, if you include the pandemic, you know, what, four times in the last four years. They've gotten, you know, excuse me, sorry, two times. They've, you know, obviously came very close to getting in the Stanley Cup final last year.

And I think that people just think that they right now have a wide open window during, you know, what has been 11 seasons with him at the helm. Yeah, Tampa Bay came in at number two, no surprise there, Julian Brisebois. I think we saw the ruthlessness of the Tampaa bay lightning this

offseason when they said see you later steven stamkos because we need to get younger and you had a guy like jake genzel and so far it's looking like the right decision was who was uh did that word come up at all ruthless in any of the conversations with yeah i, I mean, a couple with both Tampa Bay and Vegas. But, you know, the biggest story that we didn't really put in the story, but, you know, you just think of the Ryan McDonough situation the first time. They go to the Stanley Cup Final against the Colorado Avalanche, and he's playing with, like, a dangled finger in that playoff series. And two days later, after losing that bet in the Stanley Cup final,

all of a sudden Julian Breesbaugh says he basically got two choices. Ryan, you could waive your no trade clause and go to Nashville, or I'm going to put you on waivers, and I'm telling you Columbus is taking you. He has no choice. And he chose Nashville. And now he eventually winds up back there. In fact, I talked to Ryan McDonough a couple days ago. We were in Tampa with my day job covering the Minnesota Wilds.

And, you know, and he's happy to be back there. But, man, and clearly there was no love loss. You know, he's willing to go back there, you know, as they brought him back. But, man, it is like when Julian comes up with a plan, he just executes it. And I think, you know, sometimes GMs in this league, even the boldest ones, sit there and really kind of, you know, kowtow to their players at times. But if he thinks that this is the way that he's got to conduct business

for the betterment of his organization, he does it. So the Panthers came in at number three. No surprise there. They won the Stanley Cup. Number four, Vegas, we all, kind of touched on them already. They are ruthless and they are aggressive. One group I wanted to talk about was the fifth place team in this, and that is the Boston Bruins. I wonder if they might be dropping in these rankings if you do them next season, because I don't know if their off-season moves have worked all that much yeah and what's what's interesting is that we did do this like

this was something that we've done over the last month so clearly uh people were not holding that against them uh which was kind of a rough summer um but uh you know there is definitely recency bias especially with the top four teams in the panel when you look at the cups for all those teams that are there except for the Dallas Stars. So I do think that Boston is one of those, and this will be a fascinating thing if we do this pretty much every other year and see where they are in a couple of years

because I do think that there are other teams on the rise here and we're starting to see that with, you know, the teams like the Devils and some of the moves that they make. It's going to be really interesting. I mean, Carolina, we had a lot of really interesting comments about Carolina guys just because, obviously, Don Waddell leaves, and he is, you know, to a lot of the people that we talk to, one of the people that are one of the only people in that organization that have the ability to really handle of the people that, or one of the only people in that organization that have the

ability to really handle Tom Dundon, which is a very involved owner that tries to do things very different ways, usually in cost-cutting manners. And now you have Eric Tolsky there, who's a very different personality. And so it's just going to be interesting to see where Carolina goes from here. The Rangers is another team that a lot of teams will polish on and their front office. So the Canucks finished in a tie for 20th, and some people in Vancouver might be like, that's totally unfair.

We haven't had this much faith in a management group in over a decade. But first of all, I'd like to hear what people said about the Canucks, but also I imagine that a lot of the respect level is the longevity for some of these groups, like how long they've done it, how many challenges they've had to face, and yet their teams are still, you know, consistent playoff teams and Stanley Cup contenders. Yeah, you know, and I'll be honest, I believe they, if I remember correctly, they only got three points. And so I don't believe that any of the people I talked to picked the Canucks. So I'd be guessing on what they said or what the, you know, in that in that situation, but I could just look from the outside looking in, I think they're a team on the rise. I think they made a obviously a bold decision, the right decision bringing in Rick Tockett. I think they've signed some great contracts there as well. And I think they've got a captain that, to me, is one of the best in the league that could be an MVP candidate this year.

So, you know, I just think the Canucks are just going to continue to get better. You know, and I just love what they do. It's going to be just interesting to see how, and this is obviously how, you know, not a lot that they can control, but they're clearly being very careful with Patrick Demko here, and they've got an injury timeline and plan with him that I think makes a lot of sense. But there's a lot of respect throughout the league

for both Jim Rutherford and Patrick Aldean. I want to circle back on Carolina because they are here tonight, 7 o'clock, Rogers Arena, to take on the Vancouver Canucks, and it's been a good start to the season for them. They're on a three-game winning streak. They've done very well in the early stages of their Western road trip. But in the article, it's funny because it almost says that the front office is admired in spite of the fact that ownership is as hands-on as they are.

And the quote was, they operate on the most frugal budget. Is that the general sense that you and the other writers got when you heard people talk about Carolina, is that Tom Dundon does things a certain way, and by a certain way, I mean a, I guess, frugal way. Yeah, I mean, you look at, I think it's largely known that he doesn't pay his general managers a lot of money, and he has swung and missed throughout

the years in fact the reason why Don Waddell wound up in that seat in the first place is because of the money that he was offering you know a lot of candidates in the league that have been reported in the past Paul Fenton Tom Fitzgerald things like that you know and well below market value for what a typical GM makes but also the money that is paid to people on his staff. And then obviously I think that he also has a belief out there that, you know, you can really, and I don't mind this, that you could develop a lot of players in the minors, but he thinks I think a lot of times it's better you use those players

than going out and spending significant money on an outside player. So, you know, but I think that they're innovative. Obviously, Eric Tolsky is an extremely smart, smart man. We saw with the deferred contracts that he signed with Slavin. And I think that, you know, I just look at their team as a team that, you know, in a lot of ways have underachieved because they just have had a team that I think with Ajo and Svechnikov and all these guys that they, at this point, they should have a cup.

Now, I covered that Florida-Carolina series a couple years ago. It really hurt them, obviously, not having Sveshnikov in that lineup. But I look at them as a team that really still should make a lot of hay in an Eastern Conference that has been really kind of pedestrian at times already this season with tons of 500 teams. So their window is still open, and we'll see if Eric Tolsky can, you know, he's a brilliant guy, and I think that he's probably the perfect GM right now

for an owner like Tom Dunn. I mentioned, like, using the word, like, frugal, right? Is the only reason that we don't use the word cheap because they're winning? Like, if you're winning, you're frugal. If you're losing, you're cheap. Like if you're winning, you're frugal. If you're losing, you're cheap. Yeah.

I will tell you that the person, that was a quote given to me and the person that, the person that gave it to me is one of the smartest, brightest people that I've ever dealt with

in this league. So I think he likes to use big words. I do want to ask you about the Minnesota Wild, the team you cover on a daily basis. Kirill Kaprizov is

off to an incredible start. Now, they had a wild loss to the Flyers, I guess, recently. But overall, how did the Wild look? Yeah, I mean, they looked good up until the other night where it was very, very atypical. They discussed

this and had given up seven goals in its first five games, and then that night gave up six. And, you know it was very very atypical they discussed this and had given up seven goals in his first five games and then that night gave up six and um you know and it's just very very different game from him you could tell from the very beginning of that game that that he just didn't have it wasn't you know his first goal he let off a terrible rebound second goal totally way off his angle and the wild basically went 30 minutes without giving up a shot a real shot in that game he still gave up six goals four on his first 10 so um you know we'll see if they can bounce back they have it was their first regulation loss um for the most part up until that game they've defended really really really well this season um you know they've they they're really balanced up and down their lineup and and they've been, for the most part, healthy. You know, Jared Spurgeon hasn't played six games this season.

There's obviously concern there, but he's back with the team here in Pittsburgh today. You know, we'll see if he returns to the lineup tomorrow. But, you know, so far, so good. You know, a couple of easy games to start the season, a couple of wins against Columbus, but then they go to Florida and Tampa and sweep that, and that's not easy in

today's day and age. They played really, really well in Florida. We'll see if they can bounce back here in Pittsburgh tomorrow night. Mike, this was great. Thanks for taking the time to do it. We really appreciate it. I implore all of our listeners to go check it out. It's up at The Athletic right now.

The listeners are angry because the Canucks are 20th. That's why they need to go read it. Some teams didn't even get a vote. The Canucks are way ahead of those teams. So this is good. What are the NHL's top 10 front offices here? How 40 executives voted. It's at the Athletic right now. Mike, thanks for doing this. Enjoy the rest of the season. We'll get caught up

as we get closer to the next wild Canucks game. Yeah, anytime, Mike. Enjoy. See ya. Thanks, buddy. Mike Russo from the Athletic here on the Alfred and Brough show on Sportsnet 650. So to the listeners angrily texting in. 20's not bad. Well, it's not where I would rank it

right now. Could have been worse. But I think you have to understand that longevity plays a role in this. Look at the top five teams. Dallas, Tampa Bay, Florida just won the cup. Vegas, they've won a cup. Boston, they've been contenders for a long time now.

The challenge is to do it year after year after year. The Canucks have had one good season. Jim Nillen, for example, is the third longest active tenured GM in hockey. He's been with the Dallas Stars for 11 seasons and they've been to, what, two Western Conference finals and a Stanley Cup final in the last four years. That's the kind of body of work

that they're talking about here. I don't have any problem with the way that it was voted on. Do I think that the Canucks are low? Yeah, but I didn't expect them to be like a top five entity. As Jason just pointed out, last year, remember what we were

talking about when they went to the playoffs? Man, it was so nice to be back in the playoffs. It was so great to be back among the teams that get to play into May and some of them lucky enough to go to June, right? But there's a recency there. I think the one that I would push back on the most,

and again, this isn't the athletic writers. They're just asking the questions. Number 10, Detroit. I don't think Steve Iserman has done anything in Detroit that makes him a top 10 front office leader in the NHL. I think that's ridiculous. Let's spin it this way, though. The fact that he's in there maybe gives you an idea of the thinking and what current general managers, executives, and president of hockey ops value

in front office people. And maybe they don't always value the right things. Iserman's there on reputation, I would probably say. Their body of work in Detroit has been nothing. It's a nod. I mean, there's no postseason to speak of. They've been slowly building towards something with the Iser plan that I don't know what the endgame is.

Yeah, I don't know. They traded away Philip Hronik. What a gaffe that was. Let's talk about some other NHL stories. I do want to talk about the Leafs because they just actually made a signing. Jake McCabe got a five-year contract extension with a cap hit of $4.51 million. Now, by all accounts from the guys that I talked to in Toronto,

Jake McCabe has been pretty good defenseman for them, but this just happened like within the last few minutes. Yeah. Yeah. Jake McCabe gets five year contract extension. Uh, McCabe is 31 years old. So the Leafs have as one texter, gets a five-year contract extension. McCabe is 31 years old.

So the Leafs have, as one texter texted in, the Leafs, I think it's Brandon in Vancouver, the Leafs have committed to an old blue line. Riley signed until he's 36. Tanev until he's 40. OEL until he's 36. And McCabe until he's 37. So I watched the Leafs over the weekend. I watched them play against the Boston Bruins

and it was an entertaining game for sure. The Leafs tied it up late, but then in overtime, Laddie, in overtime, Laddie, Austin Matthews gets the puck and makes a bit of a boo-boo. That loose puck picked off by Matthews, and the Leafs get control of it. Matthews with his 17th game-time goal has given it away. Pasternak in front, Stolarz, another stop, scores! The Bruins win it in overtime! So the Bruins win that one 4-3. Both those teams needed a win, but only Boston got it.

The Leafs have now dropped four of their last five after starting 3-1. They're 4-4-1, and I don't know, I think there were probably bound to be some growing pains under Craig Berube as he takes the Craig Berube style and tries to apply it to the Toronto Maple Leafs. I think it's way too early to panic. I thought they did look pretty good early on, but they had a 6-2 loss in Columbus. You don't want that.

Then they come home. They get blasted by St. Louis in a game that was probably pretty embarrassing for Craig Berube considering he'd been fired by the St. Louis Blues after winning a Stanley Cup there. That's also the game after which he called his team too cute. Yes. I suppose they were better against Boston, but I don't even know how good Boston really is this season.

Now the Leafs have a tough task because they go into Winnipeg tonight to play the still undefeated Winnipeg Jets. I did not see this coming. I thought the Jets would be okay. I didn't think they'd be undefeated. Was it eight games in now? Eight. Oh, no.

The Winnipeg Jets are now. They are the class of the National Hockey League. I did want to circle back on one thing you were talking about with Toronto. I am very excited, very excited for the inevitable Austin Matthews, Craig Berube fight. I don't know how it's going to happen. I don't know what it's going to look like. I don't know if it's going to happen. I don't know what it's going to look like. I don't know if it's just going to be a yelling match or if there'll be some finger pointing.

Maybe they'll need to be broken apart. Craig stuck up for him after, actually. I know. Yeah, he said like... Because he had to. Well, no, he doesn't have to do anything. He did. He doesn't have to do anything.

Because he knows now. Because when he was dressing him down on the bench prior, him and Marner, he knew. He's only got so many cracks that he can get out get after his guys I thought it was gonna be Marner I thought that was the guy but Matthews see when they didn't want to sign Marner so be nice to Marner please we want to sign this guy when they stripped John Tavares of the captaincy and that's how I like to frame it they didn't give it to us to Matthews they stripped John Tavares of the captaincy, and they gave it to Matthews.

I think that there was this sense of, we're giving you the C, and we're bringing in a hard-ass coach, and your life is about to get different. Not bad, and they don't want him to change, because he did score 70 goals last year, but they're like, it's going to be a different experience for you, Austin Matthews, now, because we sink or swim with you there's no more

of this going to the playoffs and it's like lots of guys didn't show up or yeah you know the one playoff win but it's not austin's fault like they i think that they wanted to give him that push that it's you know the regular season stuff is great and the goal scoring exploits are fantastic but you have one playoff win one and that's got change, and this is how we're going to go about doing it. And the plays that he made against Boston, that's not it. I know his coach defended him, and I know mistakes happen, but I think there's going to be a real push for him to be different. And by that, I mean probably doing a lot of the things

that are not in his wheelhouse and not in his arsenal, right? I just don't know if that defense is going to hold up. I don't mind that blue line. I don't love it. I mean, part of it is Tanev. I love Tanev. And apparently Jake McCabe is a 5x5 guy now. Yeah.

I don't know. I think they're just old, man. They're old. One texter wondering if maybe Tavares' amulet's actually cursed. When he got his captaincy stripped, he should have given the amulet to Matthews. He's like, you will be protected now. John, your amulet's glowing. Is that good or bad?

It's never done that before. How is that not their post-game tradition now? The amulet? That would be pretty funny. They got to do it now. But they only do it after losses instead of wins. Mike Tanier is going to join us to talk about the NFL weekend.

What a finish in the Washington Commanders Chicago Bears game. Who is that Chicago Bears player taunting the crowd during the play on the Hail Mary? You mean number 29, Tyreek Stevenson,

who not only decided to taunt fans during the play, he was the one that tipped the ball into the commander's wide receiver's hands. That is an all-timer blunder. Shockingly, he declined to speak to reporters after the game. He did issue an apology on social media, though. Oh, man. Before we go to break, I need to do the CFL report.

A few of these left because we're going to the playoffs now in the CFL. The CFL report is brought to you by Securian Canada, the official life insurance partner of the CFL. I mentioned we're on our way to the CFL playoffs. Yeah, the CFL Divisional Semi-Final matchups are set Saturday, November 2nd. So both of them go this Saturday. The Eastern Semi-Final will feature the Ottawa Red Blacks. They will go to BMO Field in Toronto to take on the Argonauts.

The winner of that one will take on the champs in the East, the Montreal Alouettes. Out West, as Jason mentioned earlier in the show, the Saskatchewan Rough Riders will host your BC Lions in the Western semifinal at Mosaic. The winner there, of course, will have to go the road through Winnipeg in order to get to the Grey Cup. The Divisional Finosaic. The winner there, of course, will have to go the road through Winnipeg in order to get to the Grey Cup.

The Divisional Finals, which will be, of course, in Winnipeg and Montreal, will be on Saturday, November 9th. Here's a fun fact. I bet you didn't know this. The Red Blacks and the Argonauts have never met in the playoffs before. I did not know that.

Yes. That's possible in the CFL? Ottawa and Toronto have met. Yeah, I'm sure. But it was back in the 90s. In fact. When it was the Rough Riders or was it the Renegades? Rough Riders, all normal caps as well.

Yeah, but two words. Two words, all normal caps. The quarterbacks at the time for the Toronto Argonauts, Willie Gillis, remember him? Because I don't. And Damon Allen was a quarterback for Ottawa at the time. He playeds, Willie Gillis. Remember him? Because I don't. And Damon Allen was a quarterback for Ottawa at the time. He played for every team. Right.

The next year he played for Toronto. And then in the West, a little more recent history between the Lions and the Rough Riders. The last time they played in the playoffs, it was a while ago, though. 2013 West semifinal. So 11 years ago. Was that that wild one that went to overtime

29-25 yeah the quarterbacks that day for the Lions Travis Lule remember Travis Lule I forgot about him for Saskia

it was Darian Durant so there's your fun facts that is the CFL report brought to you by Securian Canada the official life insurance partner of the CFL coming up next

football talk of the American variety Mike Tanier from the 2 Deep Zone sub stack is going to join us next on the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. Hey, it's Jamie Dodd

and Thomas Drance. Get your daily dose of Canucks talk with us weekdays from 12 to 2 on Sportsnet 650 or catch up on demand through your favorite podcast app. AT&T Pylon Cam will give you the shot of Tez coming right in your face 7.33 on a Monday

Happy Monday everybody, Halford Brough, Sportsnet 650. Halford and Brough in the morning is brought to you by Pacific Honda, North Vancouver's premier destination for Honda vehicle sales and service. They have a friendly, knowledgeable staff that can help with anything you're looking for. Sales, financing, service. Four parts. We are in Hour 2 of the program. Hour 2 is brought to you by Jason Hominuk of Jason.Mortgage.

If you love giving the banks more of your money, then don't let Jason shop around to find the perfect mortgage for you. You know what? Let him do it. Try it. See what happens. Visit him on the internet at Jason.Mortgage.

Okay, so, so far, the only NFL stories that we've covered in detail are the debacle that the Seattle Seahawks had at home to Buffalo in a 31-10 loss. And honestly, 31-10 makes that game sound closer than what it was, and it doesn't even make it sound that close. It was terrible. We also briefly talked about the crazy ending

of the Commanders-Bears game on the Hail Mary from Jane Daniels. We've got the audio. We'll save it for later. We'll do it for what we learn. The audio of the Washington Commanders radio play-by-play is one of the funniest bits of audio I've ever heard. They just gave up every semblance of professionalism and coherence.

It's just loud. No more theater of the mind at all. Just loud noises, but it's great to listen to. So we'll play that later in the show. We got a lot of other NFL stuff to get into. Joining us now, as he does every Monday, here our Monday morning quarterback, Mike Tanier, from the Two Deep Zone here on the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650.

Good morning, Michael. How are you? I'm doing great. You know, I gave up all semblance of professionalism and just started making hooting noises, And I was alone in my office. You called it the most dramatic Hail Mary since the ending of The Godfather Part 2. That's high praise, Mike. But can you walk us through everything?

Because it was a bit of a dog of a game, I'm being honest. I had it on in the corner and I was kind of paying attention to it. But there wasn't a lot to take from it. It was like a few comedy of errors back and forth. And then, sure enough, there were a few errors at the end as well. But walk the listeners through the end of that game

and just how crazy it was for Washington for that improbable victory over the Bears. Yeah, the first three quarters of it were a snoozer. You know, the commanders were out playing the Bears, but they kept settling for field goals, kept making mistakes in the red zone. Seahawks fans can relate. Not that big a mistake, though. They were getting for field goals, kept making mistakes in the red zone. Seahawks fans can relate. Not that big a mistake, though.

They were getting the field goals. Anyway, and Caleb Williams was not playing well on the other side of the ball. Daniels was playing okay. Williams was playing poorly. And it was just like, okay, this is the rookie of the year showdown that you'd expect because they both look like rookies. And that's what happens. Then, you know, the commanders start making a

few mistakes late it looks like the bears are going to get a go-ahead touchdown they try to hand the ball to a backup offensive lineman pretending to be william the refrigerator perry it was one of the most foolish play called first time i saw that guy on the field by the way all game i know he's got a few snaps earlier but come on the field for the first time as a backup guard and and score a touchdown for us so naturally he fumbles um but come on the field for the first time as a backup guard and score a touchdown for us. So naturally he fumbles. But yet the commanders can't even run the clock out after that. So yeah, it sets up this play, which, you know, it's unrepeatable magic.

It's a thing where it's like the Bears look like they have this win and you're kind of shuffling your papers and saying, well, you know, Cal Williams didn't play well, but their defense is strong and they're getting enough done and DeAndre Swift had a good game. Suddenly, you have to rewrite your expectations and your thoughts. You know, we're here in NFC East country. Eagles fans are like, oh, the Eagles are going to be in first place. We got this taken care of.

It all changes on one stunning play that I don't know what to take from it. It's not like Gene Daniels makes this great play. He just throws it up there. You know, it's not like the kid Stevenson who tips it looks like he's trying to bat it down. It's Noah Brown's alert in the back of the end zone. He gets it, and, you know, it feels like the tide of NFL history changes after that. I mean, you look at the NFC right now,

and there are some very good teams for sure. Detroit's at 6-1, Green Bay's at 6-2, and there are the Washington Commanders at 6-1, Green Bay's at 6-2, and there are the Washington Commanders at 6-2. 4-0 at home, plus 69 point differential. Quite nice. So, I mean, you're looking at them, and it's very unexpected, but are they a good

football team if they just caught magic and lightning in a bottle? Like, what are the Commanders? I know they're 6-2, and I know they're probably on their way to the playoffs, but what are realistic expectations for this team this year? You know, they're a good team that caught lightning in a bottle. That's it. You know, if they're 5-3 after this, you say, okay, I feel comfortable with that.

You know, they had a similar win over the Giants where they kicked nothing but field goals all day, but the Giants kicker was hurt, so they kept going for it on fourth down. It was like this ridiculous, you know, decision by the giants and the commanders get wins. But when your quarterback is playing well, when your defense is playing, okay, they, they give up a lot of deep, big, deep passes, but you're going to get wins like that. They're not in the category of the Detroit lions. You know,

they won't be in the category of the Eagles. If the Eagles figure themselves out or the Niners, when they figure themselves out, but they're in that group with all these other teams you can start naming, like the Packers, like the Vikings as they start to fall off, etc. And they're definitely in that line to be

one of the playoff teams. Speaking of the Eagles, big win over the Bengals on the weekend. Offense looks good. What's the outlook for the Eagles now? After some heat on Sirianni and company, especially for how they were playing on offense, last few weeks has looked good. Yeah, a lot of heat on Sirianni and them.

A lot of what seemed like there was some distrust in the locker room, who's calling the plays, who wants to do what. And winning solves a lot of these things. And also getting healthy solves a lot of these things. And you look at the Eagles now, you say, well, is this legitimate? Is what we saw yesterday legitimate? And the signs point to yes, because the Eagles looked like a Super Bowl team last November,

and they were a Super Bowl team two years ago. And it's tons of the same guys. You can, like, rattle off the names where it's the same people out there, the same, you know, leaders in the locker room, et cetera. So it's encouraging. The Eagles get the Jaguars next week. That should be a win. Then they get the Cowboys.

Then they get the Commanders. And then we'll know for sure if the Eagles are just in that soup with all these other pretty good NFC teams, or if they're ready to step up and be up there with teams like the Lions. When will the Buffalo Bills clinch their division? They, uh, last week. They are, what did I just post? The odds are minus 4,000. If you want to place a bet on the Bills, it's minus 4,000. So while they haven't actually clinched, they've essentially clinched. And obviously you saw what happened yesterday. They're a very good team.

They can overcome some of their own mistakes. They can force you to make your mistakes. They can out-physical just about most of the opponents in the NFL. My God, the rest of that division is comical. It's comical, it's embarrassing, it's ridiculous, and it just makes things very easy for the Buffalo Bills. Should Seahawks fans be worried about Mike McDonald at all? He's a young coach, and he said a few times after games this year, you know, we got out

coached today, we just got to go back to work. I know it's only eight games in. I know it's the end of the Pete Carroll era, and it was going to be tough for anyone who took over that. But the Seahawks were embarrassing yesterday. Yeah, you know, again, I think they were out-physicaled, first of all. They were just out-physicaled by a better team. And when that happens, you know, a coach is going to say,

well, you know what, I got to just try-physicaled by a better team. And when that happens, a coach is going to say, well, you know what? I've got to just try harder to get the guys in better positions. You don't want them out there castigating the guys. I look at it, and two trips inside the five-yard line, and you come away with three points. And one of them is

the over-the-head 20 yards behind Geno Smith play, and the other one is you get stopped on fourth down and Geno trips over his own feet. And those are fundamental execution errors that could be solved. And then next thing you know, I don't think you win that game, but like it's close and you don't feel embarrassed the next Monday. I don't know if that's on the head coach, if that's the coordinator, or you're just seeing sort of a limiting threshold at the top of how good this offense could be.

Geno is going to do some things right and some things wrong. DK Metcalf and Tyler Lockett are not getting better. They're not going to keep getting better, and they still flow a lot of the passing game through them. And you might just be looking at the fact that you got a ceiling, and that ceiling is that maybe you're a nine-win team, and you're never going to be good enough to do everything you have to do to beat a team like the Bills. Who's the most physical team in the NFL? Like which team would you say pushes around the other team more than most? Bills are up there. Lions are up there.

And, of course, ask their coach and he'll tell you. But you see that in their running game. You see it with the Lions when it's like – and there was a little bit of it in the Seahawks a couple weeks ago. You know, third and six, third and seven, we might just hand off. We might just hand off to Jameer Gibbs to get eight yards on third down and

long because we believe that we can dictate to you. Not quite as good on defense without Aiden Hutchinson, but that's it. You know, and as I mentioned, two teams, that's who the Seahawks have played in the last couple weeks. Two of the teams that can just absolutely manhandle you, and, you know, they get manhandled and that kind of shows where your ceiling is as a team. We're speaking to Mike Tan here, our NFL insider from the 2 Deep Zone

here on the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. Okay, that division in its entirety now is wide open. I watched the last two Arizona Cardinals games. Fun team to watch, and they seem to have this penchant for walk-off field goals. They've done it the last two weeks now. That was a good win they got yesterday. I watched the Rams take care of the Vikings on Thursday Night Football. I thought they were impressive as well.

I thought the Niners looked more like the old Niners last night. So you've got all these teams around 500 or just one game below. It's not a great division, but I think it's intriguing, and I also think that it's incredibly wide open. Anyone can actually win the NFC West right now. Anyone can do it. The Seahawks have a bunch of their divisional games coming up down the road. The team to be worried about, the Cardinals are going to do this pesky stuff to you.

You have to make sure you've beaten them, beaten them. You don't give them life. It's the Rams right now with Pukin, Nakua back and Cooper Cupp back. I don't know if Cooper Cupp's the same guy he was before a bunch of injuries over the last couple years, but they're still much better now than they were in week one, week two.

That is a team you have to watch out for. They can make a run in the second half, and they can make things difficult for the Seahawks and for the 49ers, who they already have a win over now that they're closer to full strength. What's your read on Atlanta right now? Because, you know, you look at this, and they kind of got laughed at at the draft for what they did with Penix

after bringing Kirk Cousins aboard. But at the quarterback position and really that entire offense, at times this year I've watched it, and aside from that Seahawks debacle a couple weeks ago, has looked really good. Cousins looks like a very effective guy, and they're probably going to finish atop that division, I guess depending on what happens with Baker Mayfield

now that he has no wide receivers. But I'm intrigued by them because it's such a weird franchise, and they've got this penchant for blowing it all the time. But, you know, at times, it does look like a pretty competent offense. Oh, it's a very competent offense. It's a very competent offense. It's efficient. It's balanced.

You look at it and say, oh, I enjoy watching this because they have two different running backs. They've got four or five different guys in the passing game who get the ball, and they move it well. They had a turnover spree. The Seahawks did a good job forcing them, making some problems snowball on them, and that's why that win was so easy to the credit of the Seahawks defense. I'm trying to look up

the sack total, because they have no pass rush, and I can't find their sack total right now. I know it's not zero, but I still can't find it. And that's the thing, that's kind of like the Achilles heel of this team, because if the opposing quarterback has time to throw, he can pick you apart, even though they've got a good

secondary. And we joke about what they did in the draft. Imagine if they had drafted like Jared Verse. Imagine if they had drafted a defensive end or tackle instead of Pennix. And Pennix might help them in two years. But if they were getting like an extra sack every other week from a first-round pick, which is kind of what Verse is doing, imagine how good the Falcons would be. Right now they're a good team, but they've got that one flaw

that's probably going to keep them behind the great team. My God, I didn't realize it was so bad. It's 0.8 sacks per game. They're the worst pass rush in the NFL. I didn't realize it was that bad. Why do you think the Seahawks did so well against them? Gino's like, this is great. We've got to play these guys more often.

What more is left to say about the New York Jets? Somebody asked me on one of the other shows, are they the worst team in the AFC? They're not the worst team in the NFL because the Panthers are still in the NFL for now. But, like, I don't know, but they're the most dysfunctional team. They're the most disappointing team. And they're a team that when you start watching their body language, after the first set of mistakes,

like the first three and out of the game in the first quarter, Aaron Rogers already has his shoulder slump. He's shaking his head. He's looking at guys, guys are walking off the field, demoralized. Like it's the first quarter. Yeah.

It was a three and out. If you care, if you're already responding like that, you're beaten mentally and emotionally in the game. And I think that was what you were getting. They kept thinking they'd done enough, that a one-score lead was enough against the Patriots, and that's not the right mentality. There should have been a team you destroyed.

You destroyed them in week three or whatever. You should have done it. The more players come back for that team, the more trades they they make the more firings they do the higher the pressure gets and the pressure is the thing that's actually causing them to lose what do you think happens at the end of this season like i know there's a lot of the season left and there still could be drama like i don't know if aaron rogers finishes the season like i could see him just being like no this isn't for't for me anymore. But who knows there? I mean, they have potential. I mean, there was a reason people were excited about this Jets team.

Have they blown it all this season? Yeah. Yeah, they have. They put too much of Rodgers' money in future years. Now you've got Devontae Adams' money in future years. You got draft picks that you've spent for future years. You made sure there was nobody even remotely like a quarterback of the future

on the roster, you know, so you can do that. So you have these young defensive players and Garrett Wilson and Breesaw and some of these other guys, and you've kind of spoiled it for like the next two or three seasons, that they're never going to be a nucleus that's a part of a rising force because they're stuck with us. I don't know what Rodgers does, but he doesn't strike me as a

guy right now who looks like he wants to come back to this team next year, and this team would be very happy for him to walk away. So somebody with some kind of dignity can start over in 2025. Anthony Richardson, completion percentage 44%. He also pulled himself for a play because he was tired, possibly from throwing incompletions. I know he's only 22. I know last year people were pretty enthused about him before he got hurt. He's only played 10 games in the NFL.

What have you thought of this? Because Colts fans were pretty excited when they drafted this kid because it meant this long string of veterans coming in to play for the team. That was over. They're going in a new direction, and now you're kind of like, maybe they should go with Flacco. They went the completely opposite direction. Like, oh, we're done with 40-year-olds.

Let's get a 19-year-old. That's kind of what they did. Like, how about a 22-year-old that started a couple seasons in college and won a bowl game and things like that? No, we've got to get somebody even younger. And you look at the talent, and you can see the talent. But this isn't a farm team. This isn't AA.

This isn't AAA. So when he's hitting, you know, if he's a baseball player batting 180 but with 25 homers you say oh we can start working on this in double a single a you can't play him in the major leagues and that's kind of where richardson is right now i don't know in the olden days that have been like what you know what you can hold him on hold on to him for you know another year another two years another three years and see what happens nowadays after next year they have to start making contract decisions and that's what makes it hard he has has to fast forward this development. It can't just be two

bombs and that's the entire output of the week. And increasingly, that's what you see from Richardson. And you're right. Colts are a playoff team. They might want to consider, hey, maybe we go with Flacco right now. If they do that, they have to message us saying, we knew with this kid, it was going to be a two, three, four year operation. And they have to figure that out, you know, from messaging, they have to figure it out from budget expectations and everything else

within the organization. Mike, you're the best, but thanks for doing this today. We really appreciate it. I enjoy Monday night football as much as humanly possible. It is the Steelers. It is the giants.

I joked that the over-ender is around 13 and we will do this again next Monday. Absolutely. Take care and enjoy your this again next Monday. Absolutely. Take care and enjoy your week. You too. Thanks, Mike Tanier, our NFL insider here. A presentation of the Clayton Public House on Sportsnet 650. So yesterday, went to the bar.

I carved out a couple hours, went to the bar and watched some football yesterday. Fun. I won't say which one I went to because this story probably doesn't paint them in the greatest light. I ordered something to eat. I'm still laughing about it. And I waited like a half hour. It never showed up. Right?

So I'm like, okay. I made eye contact with the waiter. And he came over. He's like, sorry, mate. I forgot to punch it in. It happens. No big deal. He's like, you know. That's what the Seahawks said in the red zone. We forgot to punch it in. It happens. No big deal. He's like, you know.

That's what the Seahawks said in the red zone. We forgot to punch it in. He's like, if I can, you know, he's like, but, you know, now that this happy hour started. So you can order something off the happy hour menu, like a pleasant little surprise. Okay, great. I'll just get some wings.

So another half hour passes and there's still no food. And I'm like, I don't even know what to do at this point. The only thing that a restaurant is supposed to do is take your food order and give you the food. I'm like, I can't go back there and make it myself. I would, I was very calm about the whole thing.

So he came over and he was like, he's like, those wings didn't show up. Did they? They didn't. He's like, I'm pretty sure I punched him in. I'm like, you said that the first time though. And then he went back there and he's like i'm pretty sure i punched him in i'm like you said that the first time though and then he went back there and he's like that one's on me brother so

the end of the day i got free wings nice you should have ordered like four orders of them no because there was no chance any food was coming oh i was really hoping i was really hoping that it would be like a third time's the charm and then he's like i forgot well okay i didn't get upset. I was so amused by what was going on. Because I'm like, there's one thing a restaurant does. Like, it takes your order. Yeah.

It puts in the order. Ah, I forgot to punch it in. And they're like, ah, I forgot. The second time was the kicker. The second time was the best. So what are you doing then? You're walking around taking these orders, but you're not punching them in. So what exactly is your purpose?

It's like a Seinfeld episode. Anybody can take a reservation. His response was the best because he went over and it was that big deep He's like Those wings didn't come out, did they? He's like, they did not. They did not. Anyway. Were you watching the Seahawks at the same time as this?

So we were like, okay we'll do one of two things. We'll either turn off the Seahawks game and throw a different game on or we'll just leave. And unfortunately, I left because I did not get to see the end of the commander. You leave and all your orders show up. Yeah. Eight plates of wings.

Just wait. Where'd that guy go? I didn't get to see the end of the Bears commanders game. Yeah. And I actually didn't know about it until way later in the evening when someone he's like, did you see that? Wait, they won? Yeah. Because there's a lot of sports going on. And I was watching't know about it until way later in the evening when someone, he's like, did you see the end? Wait, they won? Yeah, because there's a lot of sports going on.

And I was watching Whitecaps and everything else. So Laddie this morning came in and he said, I got the radio call from the commanders on their Hail Mary game winning score. He's like, you got to hear it. And I'm like, okay, sure. Like I heard the TV call was great. The Jim Nance call was terrific. Nance was great. But this was, this is another level of excited.

And this is where you just throw any like professional broadcasting or objectivity out the window. Because it is improbable. We're going to use this call to pump everyone up for Sats appearance in just a few minutes. So this is the Washington Commanders with a Hail Mary win over the Chicago Bears they bring three Daniel's backing up he's just gonna have to let one fly goes to the right side steps away from the defenders gives himself some time now steps fires, heads towards the end zone. It is... Touchdown! Touchdown!

Touchdown! Touchdown! Touchdown! Touchdown! Touchdown! Touchdown! Touchdown! Touchdown!

Touchdown! Touchdown! Touchdown! Touchdown! Touchdown!