Halford & Brough in the Morning - Which Canuck Will Be Next To Go Into The Ring Of Honour?

Episode Date: July 18, 2025

In hour two, guest hosts Jamie Dodd & Israel Fehr do some Ask Us Anythings, the boys debate who will be the next Canuck to be inducted into the Ring Of Honour (3:00), plus they look ahead to the start of NFL training camps, as NFL.com's Nick Shook (26:58) joins the show.  This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

Music Welcome back to Halford and Brough here on a Fiesta Friday, Sportsnet 650. It's Jamie Dodd and Israel Fair filling in for the boys today. I will be back on the show on Monday with Halford Monday and Tuesday. And then I think it's Halford and Josh Elliott Wolf for the remainder of the week. So Halford back at least of Halford and Bruff on Monday. We are coming to you live from the Kintec studio. Kintec Canada's favorite orthotics provider powered by thousands of five star Google reviews, sore feet. What are you waiting for?

Halford and Bruff is brought to you you by sans and associates BCs first and trusted choice for debt help with over 3000 five star reviews. Visit sans dash trustee.com this hour of how often a broth is brought to you by Jason dot mortgage. If you love giving the banks more of your money, then don't let Jason shop around to find the perfect mortgage for you. That's Jason dot mortgage. All right. It is as mentioned and ask us anything Friday in addition to being Fiesta Friday here on the show. So you can send it in text in a hashtag a UA six 50, six 50 to the dumb bar lumber text line. We will give away a

hundred dollar gift card to AJ's pizza on East Broadway for the best. Ask us anything submission. We'll announce the winner there at eight thirty make sure you include the pizza emoji if you want to be eligible for that prize I've got an ask us anything to present to the group here it's Canucks related okay which player will be honored in some way by the Canucks next. And when I say honored, I mean either getting their jersey retired or going in to the ring of honor. So which player could be a current player could be someone who's already retired, somebody who was already out of the league, which player

will be next to either go to the ring of honor or the ultimate honor getting their jersey retired by the Vancouver Canucks Unveiling the Jersey in the rafters he Miller. Yeah, it's gotta be it Just just you know, he's gonna give a big speech. It's gonna be fantastic Yeah, everyone's gonna be super in the X's roast of the sedans was tough Just wait till you hear a PD and what he has to say about JT Oh my goodness. Yeah. Yeah that ship has sailed and that's kind of why we were having this conversation Izzy and I during earlier in the week because

Like Bo Horvat If he had signed a contract here, okay He's a lock for the ring of honor at least JT Miller when he signed his big extension You look at it and say man, he keeps producing even close to what he's doing. He's going to be sky high and all these career points leader list for the Canucks and he's going to be a lock at least for the ring of honor and JT Miller you could even made the case like hey if they'd had some extra playoff success and he played out that deal he might have been in the conversation to have his number retire.

Obviously I think the ship has sailed for both of those players. I don't think there's any honor coming like that for Bo Horvat. I don't think there's any ring of honor honor coming for JT Miller either. We've got a few a couple of candidates. I think it's fair to say a few candidates on the roster right now. We can go through them in some detail but Brock Besser now that he's signed his alias Pedersen That's gonna be a very interesting case Quinn Hughes Obviously that's gonna be a very interesting case

I think you could throw that your Demko in there as well now, but he's signed a three-year deal Look if we're saying what potential playoff success looks like if that's your Demko is part of a big playoff run Then that that increases the odds dramatically Yes, absolutely it does. And then of course you've got still some players that played for the team in the past that well that's the interesting part right. Are they holdover from past eras because we got immediately we got this text in from Evan and Alder Grove.

Obvious answer is Edler and Justin East van says Alex out there to the ring of honor. We also got tequila Tim who texted in Alex Burrows and tequila Tim you might want to lay off the tequila because he is in fact already already in the ring of honor. So there you go. But a lot of people texting in Alex Edler. If you'd asked me five years ago what when Edler or whenever it was that Edler left the Canucks to go play for the Kings I would have said stone cold lock to be in the ring of honor when you consider the

longevity and we all knew Quinn Hughes was going to break all of his defenseman records, but still at the time he held all the relevant records for points and games played and all that for defensemen. He was an all star in the NHL. He was a major part of the most successful era in team history. Right. So you couldn't knock him for you, couldn't knock him for not having playoffs success or not having team success with the team. He was a big part of that. He was top, let's say the number one defenseman for those teams. I would have said absolute no doubt about it.

He's going to the ring of honor. Chef Graham saying the connection retire Quinn Hughes number now to entice him to stay. We'llucks retire Quinn Hughes number now to entice him to stay We'll get to Quinn Hughes and then instead Edler retires and it's one day contract to retire as a Canuck And that was kind of Alex Edler night now part of the interesting thing with this is Even more so than like the Hall of Fame which is kind of opaque and behind closed doors And we don't really know what they're talking about We don't even know who decides this stuff. Like it could not be more arbor. I don't want to say arbitrary, but just it's invisible to us. We don't

know what the process is. No standard. We don't know what the criteria is. Rick. So it makes it amazing for us to talk about. So exactly. That's what makes it the perfect summer sports radio content. So does the one day retirement and Alex Edler celebration does that take Ring of Honor off the table? Kind of feels like it does. I think I'm with what because you already did Alex Edler night and he came in and he was on the show and we talked to him about his career. Like we've already done the retrospective and celebration of his career. If you were going to put them in the Ring of Honor why wouldn't you have already done

it. So I would have said Alex Edler. Absolutely. But part of this is also in this hypothetical that I'm going to lay out. Canucks aren't great. Three, four years from now, maybe all the guys they want to take a roster are not here anymore. And it's, hey, you know what? Alex Edler was pretty good. We'll do an Alex Edler night and maybe people will come and buy tickets for that. That does happen in professional sports. Let's let's let's juice the attendance get the nostalgia pop for a little bit. Maybe we can get the Sedin's in and they'll give a speech about Edler. That's interesting. You can't

rule it out because that's the other thing right the criteria is arbitrary. We know it can always change. It's not like they need to put someone in every year. No. They have full control over what this looks like. And I also wonder with the ring of honor conversation, because of course, controversially, Roberto Luongo goes into the ring of honor instead of having his number retired. So has the bar kind of internally

and kind of sneakily been raised even for the ring of honor, right? With Luongo's inclusion, with Edler maybe not getting in at least right away, you know, Luongo and Alex Burrows are the last two guys to go into the ring of honor. Like is it more of an accomplishment than we maybe thought to even get the ring of honor? Honor, I gotta find a better way to say that.

Achievement, accomplishment, I don't know. Nod, nod, nod nod the ring of honor honor Yeah So that's why I'm a little skeptical of of the Alex Edler one rj and Burnaby says Kevin B X is next in the ring of honor same thing and His case wasn't as strong. No He didn't have longevity and I get he was a fan favorite wrong. No, he didn't have longevity and that get he was the fan favorite, absolute fan favorite. People loved him and he's such an engaging personality. I understand that one

game goes differently in 2011. He's probably in a lot. Well, if one game goes different in 2011, like long goes, got his number retired. Yeah. Okay. So you've got three retired numbers. Burroughs is in the ring of honor. Kessler's in the Ring of Honor. Edlers in the Ring of Honor. Like they'd almost have to create something new at that point. If the 2011 team had won and Ham. They would be ham. Hughes. Ham Hughes is probably in the Ring of Honor. Yeah. That's you.

Yeah. It would it would have been a slam dunk. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good now. We're having a Sidney Crosby statue outside of Roger's Arena. Maybe Sidney Crosby is the next when when Sidney Crosby is the two C for the Canucks. Maybe Sidney's next guy. They already have the team Canada banner up there. That's true. Complete it. Harry texted as motivation Canucks should announce nobody is getting their number retired or Ring of Honor until they win the cup. I mean some people felt that way. Canucks outside of Vancouver and maybe even with within Vancouver would get

criticized for having so many retired numbers and no Stanley Cups. How can you have six numbers up there? I don't have an issue with any like I get that line of criticism but I also don't have an issue with anyone who's up there. I know what I mean. Nor do I. So I don't like I don't subscribe to that But it was an easy dunk for people Yes It was and I understand that this text comes in has Ryan Kessler's time come and gone for that now that's a fascinating one and Kessler really gets to

The nitty gritty of this because it's not just about What you did for the team and you know? Selky winner right and the list of major award winners for for the Cox is not super long. He's on it. Again, hugely productive and important part of the most successful era in team history. But then it also comes down to the exit from the organization. Acrimonious to say the very acrimonious initiated at least partly by him. That counts in these conversations, I think for a lot and the interesting thing about Ryan Kessler is he has been very open and very kind of candid in his post

playing career about kind of his regret around that situation and his fondness for Vancouver and I did wonder for a while there if that messaging from him would kind of smooth things over and it would lead. It was almost campaigning. It would lead to an honor of some sort. I even the, the, you know, the Kevin B X of style sign a one day contract and retire and have a celebration. Doesn't it kind of feel like if it was going to happen for Kessler at this point, it would have happened already. There would have been some sort of recognition,

some sort of honor for him if he was going to get it. I do think so. It feels like the line's been drawn. And you made the point on the Luongo bar and that one sort of dragging out and then when it's announced this ring of honor being some backlash to the point that there was some thought in the building of maybe it's a surprise jersey retirement. Surprise. That still would have been so sick.

So I think that I think the line's's been drawn from that era at this point. They've got Luongo up there, they've obviously got the Sedines in their number retired, and they've got Alex Burrows as kind of the representative for the rest of the players. That means no Kessler, no Edler, no BXA. I guess those would be the main three that that you would look at for various reasons And like yeah BX a great fan favorite, but the bar especially with the Luongo being there set pretty high It's gotta be better. I think so. I'm surprised that one hasn't come in yet, right? He's gonna end his career probably top three in goals for the franchise. He's already eighth

Yeah, he's gonna be top ten points top three and goal is gonna be all over those categories he has an outside outside shot to challenge Daniel Sedin for most goals in franchise this year I think he'd have to average like 28 goals a season over the whole seven years of the deal yeah he has 204 goals yeah 550 games and Daniel has under that in 1300 games. He has 400 goals, 430 goals in 1300 games. You could do this if he plays. For Brock, we know that the thing with him is the foot speed. Is it gonna be there later in this contract?

Is it gonna be there as he gets older? Can he create that space for himself? But if you look at the type of goals he got, especially in the playoffs a couple years ago, a lot right around the net. Well, he's really transformed from a distance shooter, a guy who's picking corners, a sniper, to he does the dirty work in front of the net.

And he's good at finishing. And the tips and everything, he's added that to his game. So there's some skills that can, you know, look at Joe Pavelski, like how long did he keep scoring goals? Into his 40s. Because it was around the net, right? And he could do that around the net. You can keep scoring goals for a long time if that's your skill set in the NHL. The

interesting thing with Besser because to me like doesn't aren't there a lot of similarities between Besser and Alex Edler. No different positions right but Edler was an all-star I think one time Besser has been an all-star one time and you know both really good players but not stars Not in the conversation for top guys at their positions, right? Like Edler was a top pairing defenseman, but he was never a star defenseman Besser is a top line winger, but he's not a star winger in the NHL and they're gonna have the longevity Is that enough is just racking up kind of being at that level for a long time Does that clear? Is that enough is just racking up kind of being at that level for a long time.

Does that clear whatever the bar is to get into the ring of honor? I think for Besser, I mean, look, if he's second all time and goals, how do you not do it? You got to do something. And then at what point, if he plays out this contract, he'll have like 14 seasons under his belt for the Vancouver Canucks, 14 seasons, second in franchise goals. I don't see how you get, you don't a popular player, a guy that, that people really got behind narrative wise as well.

Right. It's not just like, well, this guy was a compiler. He sat here for a long time and we didn't really have a lot of opinions about him. He was, uh, and like, Edler was a guy who came in with some hype and some expectations, but that Besser rookie season and how the last few years of Canucks hockey to that point had been so bad. And he, he injected so much life and so much energy.

He's also, he's not like, you know, doing bits and stuff. Like he's not a comedian, but he's got a little bit of a personality. And Alex Edler was someone who really shied away from the media. I mean, he had Kevin B. Exa to do that for him and more. That's part of the reason we're talking about Kevin B. Exa in this conversation was that he was a great personality.

He was someone who when he was doing bits, he was going out of his way to be someone who had that kind of character. Besser's not that, but he is someone that people tend to relate to and they really like his story and he's got that popularity aspect. So I think you combine those things with, let's say, yeah, he plays out the next seven years, he puts up a lot of points and a lot of goals,

it becomes pretty hard to ignore. The elephant in the room here is Quinn Hughes. Well, the last thing I'll say on Brock cuz yeah, I want to talk about Quinn Hughes There's some other good ones coming in. I want to talk about the last thing I'll say on Brock is The team needs to have some sort of consistent not even like deep runs But just at least playoff appearances over this final contract or final contract this next contract for him Because otherwise like if they only go to the playoffs once in those seven years I'm not saying that they're going to I'm just putting it out there if we're having this discussion

Then really he's gonna be synonymous. He's gonna end up being synonymous with a very very disappointing Era of Canucks hockey so I think there needs to be at least some Contract through if they're that dire, that's a good question, right? I mean if it kind of goes hand if they're that dire? That's a good question. That's a good point. It kind of goes hand in hand. If they don't make, let's say they don't make the playoffs for the next three years, he's now into his thirties.

At that point, you're probably looking mega rebuild. We can put the steps together. Is Quinn Hughes still here? So on and so on. Does he finally get the trade to the Minnesota Wild that has been rumored since he basically put on a Canucks uniform? Hey, he was a free agent, man. They could have offered him the deal and they did not. Apparently he chose to stay in Vancouver. He was a UFA. He got there. Uh, all right. You bet. You brought

up Quinn Hughes. Let's talk about it because on the face of it, you look what he's doing and he wins an oris trophy and he's Not just the best Canucks defenseman in history But he's arguably the best defenseman in the NHL right now certainly no worse than number two behind kale And it's not a flash in the he's the captain number years Yeah he is a just doing everything you could possibly ask on the ice off the ice for the Vancouver Canucks and If he signs another deal here and you and I both expect it to be a long term deal, not a three year or anything like that, then you got to think absolute

lock to have his Jersey retired at some point, even without more playoff success. Like his numbers and his performance are so incredibly exceptional that I don't it'll be disappointing if they don't have deep playoff runs with him and with him doing what he's capable of on the ice but I don't think it would be a bar to him getting an individual honor from the team of some sort the really fascinating question is what happens if this is like his last year as a cadet I was just about to ask that if he leaves because he's still like if he if Quinn Hughes just has another you know Quinn Hughes season and it's eighty points and he's phenomenal and he's you know honoris finalist and the team let's say the team isn't even

bad the team makes the playoffs maybe loses in round one but a good performance in round one but they lose and then the nightmare scenario unfolds and he's guys you know what what? No offense, but I want to go play with my brothers in New Jersey, make it happen. And he's a New Jersey devil. What do you do with Quinn Hughes's legacy in Vancouver when he eventually retires? The obvious comparison here is paddle. Yeah, there's precedent here. And Pavel Buray was an absolute phenom. Obviously we know one of the most exciting players in the league called her Calder trophy winner goal scoring leader all of that ends

Really poorly trick gets traded to Florida eventually takes some time, but eventually he has his number retired the difference I think with bray and This is I think what would really determine things in the Queen Hughes scenario Buray went to Florida and he had some great seasons, scored 59 goals a couple of times. But he never really felt relevant in the same way that he did when he was with the Canucks. And maybe that's just anti Florida bias and that was hard to believe now, but that was a completely irrelevant franchise. He was still popular, but it was post-hike.

Yeah, it was post-hike. It reminds me a little bit of like Ken Griffey going to Cincinnati. Yeah, good call. Where he was like the phenom and the face of Major League Baseball in Seattle He was a good player in Cincinnati But it wasn't the same he never had the same feel never had the same vibes as it did when he was in Seattle And I do think just the fact that there was no kind of obvious other team to really strongly identify Pavel Bure with is one of the things that help facilitate him getting his number retired. Right.

If Quinn Hughes goes to New Jersey and signs an eight-year deal and plays out that eight-year deal and wins a Norris and goes to a conference finals or two with the Devils or whatever, is he going to feel like a Canuck or is he going to feel like a Devil? And then you get into the conversation of if you're talking about a Hall of Fame level player like Quinn Hughes, can you do a Ring of Honor thing for him or does it have to be a Jersey retirement? Is it almost a slap in the face if you're like, ah, Quinn Hughes is in the Ring of Honor? It's like, no, come on, this guy's a Norris trophy winner. What are you doing?

I mean, they just put Luongo there. They did. He goes to the devil's and wins a cup with them. They should never mention his name ever again Just completely forget. He was here. Just like nope you're dead to us, and that's why it's fascinating right like yeah He's deserving of the praise. I don't see I don't think right now I don't think it is gonna be like that is or is he a dog because of course it won't be I'm saying But it should be there. We like there. We're gonna out of spite

There will be fans upset with Quinn Hughes if he wants to go to New Jersey But isn't it super understandable also, of course, it's like yeah He's got two brothers and you want to go where you can win and if the team isn't in a position to win and isn't Doing well then absolutely you understand the decision Yeah, and somebody texted in Brandon in Vancouver. The legacy would be a reflection of ownership I wouldn't think anything less of Quinn. I'd just be more infuriated with how the team has operated from the top. I do think that's what a lot of people would feel frustration at the team, not being able to put the right

scenario around him, the right situation around him to convince him to stay as opposed to anger at Quinn Hughes for pursuing something else. But the ultimate question of how do you honor his legacy? How do you honor the player when it is time to do so? I think would be a really, really difficult one for the Vancouver Canucks franchise. I want to read a couple that have come in. But do we even want to touch on Alias Patterson? That one is is because theoretically still to be determined theoretically I mean it were having this conversation about oh where's best are gonna end up on all these all-time lists for Canucks skaters like

Patterson's got a person could be right in there as well the long contract Patterson though it does feel like he either has to get back to a super high level Be elite and have playoff success and get his jersey retired ring of honor I just feel like the river wouldn't make any sense. It's like, we expected you to be something more than that. We're not gonna put you in the ring of honor. It's either Jersey retirement or bust. That would be the saddest ring of honor.

Oh my gosh, can you imagine? Again, like we have to like, the thing that's interesting with Hughes is the precedent with Beret. And then the thing that's interesting now overall is the precedent with Luongo. Where you've got a guy who I guess, no major awards. He came close to the Vezina a couple of times.

He was probably over the course of his career deserving of one, just didn't win one, but hall of famer and had exceptional years and was here for eight years put in a lot of time. The Pedersen one though would be, you were supposed to be you know there you can find a Photoshop's online of Hughes and Patterson already up there right. Yeah. If he's not up there then the Ring of Honor would feel it would be it would be bizarre.

It would be one of the weirdest nights at the ring or at the rink of all time for the alias Pedersen ring of honor Induction ceremony 650 650 is the dumb bar lumber text line somebody texted in Not a player but a lamb in yo AV now Pat Quinn is in the ring of honor Yes, but Pat Quinn is such a different case right player or sorry. Yeah coach executive. Yeah Just kind of synonymous with the Canucks and we build the Canucks established the modern Canucks. Yeah. And it's like, it's strange to say about a guy who started working, you know, late eighties through the nineties for the Canucks. And it's not like, cause you hear that about like, you know, or like the, the original NFL teams, like, oh, this guy, like they, in the 1920s, they started the Chicago

Bears and George Hollis, like this team is built in his identity. The Connucks had existed for a number of years, but were adrift at sea for a lot of it. And he came in and really established what it, what it is. And now you could say, well, you know, what's that, what's that resulted in? But he's just such a beloved figure, especially for his time in Vancouver, but just, I think, overall as a hockey person.

A few people have been suggesting Mark Messier should perhaps ring a bell. That's coming any day now. Hey, Hall of Famer. Yeah, we're waiting. Hall of Famer is like, I'm waiting. Why isn't he up there? I know, it's embarrassing.

But AV, I think, again. I think he said that he would only go if he could take Trevor Lindon's name out of the. That's right. That's right. He's like the connects are like, Trevor, we got some bad. Sorry, bud. We've ran out of space and we really got to get 16. Yeah. A.V. again, to go back to the 2011 conversation, which it always comes back to, of course,

if they win, he's in. He's a ring of honor. He's the coach who won a cup. Boom. You're in it. I think short of winning a cup, they win, he's in. He's a ring of honor. He's the coach who won a cup. Boom, you're in it. I think short of winning a cup, no other coaches. Yeah, it's Pat Quinn. That's it. Couple suggesting it's not going in. No, I don't think so.

Maybe just seeing Jim Benning as well. Maybe Rick Tauke and JT Miller could go in together. The joint celebration. They do a speech at Quinn Hughes's ring of honor. You should. That's the real question. If Quinn Hughes years from now played his whole career as the Canuck, he's retiring or he has retired and they're putting his jersey in the rafters.

Will Jim Benning do an interview on Vancouver radio? Oh, my God. The Canucks should say to Benning, they're going to put him in the Ring of Honor and then not do it and say they ran out of time. Just just to get him on the air. That's the real question. Will we finally get the Jim Benning exit interview when they're retiring? I have so many, I know we need the hook. That's what you like. Hey, you drafted them. We're celebrating you, Jim. It's all about what a great job you did and then get in. Okay. Enough about Quinn Hughes. Tell us about the

OEL trade. What about these trade deadlines? What were you thinking exactly? All right, 650 650 is the Dunbar lumber text line more suggestions coming in Who will be next to go either to the Ring of Honor or have their jersey retired by the Canucks? You can send your thoughts in 650 650 send your ask us anything's in as well We'll read some of yours throughout the course of the show and announce the winner of a hundred dollar gift card to AJ's pizza on East Broadway at eight thirty up next though. We'll talk a little NFL training camp season is almost here. Nick shook from NFL.com joins us next year on how for them brought sports net six fifty. Welcome back to Alphanumerough here at Sportsnet 650. It's Jamie.IsraelFair filling in on a Fiesta Friday live from the Kintec Studio. 650 650 is the Dunbar Lumber Text Line Metro Vancouver's trusted choice for contractors

and rental warriors for over 50 years. Visit them at one of their three locations to serve you or online at Dumbar lumber.com. How often and broth is brought to you by sans and associates. Learn how a consumer proposal reduces your debt by up to 80% with no more interest. Visit sans dash trustee.com. And this hour is brought to you by Jason dot mortgage. If you love paying too much for your mortgage, then don't let Jason shop around to find the perfect mortgage for you.

That's Jason dot mortgage Now joining us calling in on the hotline powered by power West industries from NFL comm with training camps either underway Or just around the corner. He is Nick Shuck Nick. Thanks for doing this today, man. How are you? I'm good. Are you we're doing very very well so before we get into kind of training camp preview stuff I mean a pretty significant story unfolding last night in the NFL which is a NFL PA executive director Lloyd Howell stepping down from his position and again kind of developing story here and a bit off the beaten path but what does what's your reaction what can you tell us about what's happening at the PA right now? I mean there's been you know a number of

different things that have happened over the last year or so and this kind of feels like you know the next step in the matter there's a lot that we still have to figure out and in terms of details and what's going on but there's also you know from time to time you know staff changes and things like that and leadership changes and I think that's just something that we're probably going to unpack further down the road. In hockey, it's been a story that they've already agreed to a CBA and hockey, the NHL is the league that's had multiple lockouts in the last number of years.

There is labor peace there. This situation, as you mentioned, is a little complicated. It's not just strife within the union or strife between the players association and the league. But what does it say about the general feeling right now about long term where the NFL and the players are at in terms of their footing and how they Feel settled or perhaps maybe even unsettled Yeah, I think it's interesting, you know when you Continue the NFL they've had, you know labor piece for you know over 10 years I think it was what 2011 was the you know time you know, time in which they, it was,

wasn't necessarily a full lockout, but it was one in which they, you know, they weren't able to get together for OTAs and whatnot before they struck that deal, and since then it's been something that's been handled pretty easily. And I think that ultimately it'll probably follow that same path, just because it has been such a successful business over the last decade and continues to grow and continues to dominate in ratings and you know perhaps you know moves like this kind of keep that going you know there's there's obviously you know what had been reported IESPN and whatnot earlier but I think that you know with the CDBA not necessarily being right around the corner

for them to to negotiate I think that by the time that this comes down to that this will be a matter that's handled and and they'll continue to work pretty efficiently and maintain that sort of piece. We'll dive into some of the training camp storylines, also some major contracts being signed very recently earlier this week. But I'm curious as well about this kind of odd story about the second round picks. We're starting to see some of them signed, but a very large number of this year's second rounders getting very close to training camp and not having contracts. What is behind this story? It does strike me as a particularly odd one.

Yeah, it's interesting because if you think about, you know, the way the contracts are doled out, you know, as it pertains to the draft, I mean, we're not in the area of holdouts really because, you know, there's the slotted system. They've adapted what the NBA, you know, implemented a long time ago. But what ends up happening is the language of the contract is what causes a lot of this to happen.

And especially beyond first round picks, there's also the idea of how much money are you going to get guaranteed out of the total that you're slotted in there for? And what are the guarantees or the lack of guarantees in these deals. It's, I think it's often been, you know, boiled down to two words in the past, which is offset language, as in, you know, how much money a team might be responsible for paying a player if they were to go somewhere else,

if they were to, you know, be released, that sort of thing. And it's kind of follows that same formula here, but it includes what injury guarantees are there, that sort of thing. And it usually doesn't happen with first rounders because they have the first round deal in which they have the fifth year option and it's usually lucrative enough that they end up signing and it starts in the second round. It's not, you know, this isn't necessarily a new thing this year. This has happened a number of times over the past, but over the past few years. But I think, yeah, it just comes down to the matter that they have to, you know, figure out some of the details

of these contracts. And sometimes it's a challenge when you get into the really deep details of these deals and find out that, oh, this team actually doesn't want to give me, you know, injury guarantees or that sort of thing. Because unlike first-round picks, these deals are not as rock solid. So as mentioned, some interesting big new contracts handed out recently in the NFL. Let's start with TJ Watt in Pittsburgh who gets the deal at $41 million a year. And as you write in your piece, right, that takes him past Miles Garrett for the most money for an edge rusher,

past Jamar chase for the most money for a non QB in the NFL. TJ Watt, incredibly productive, incredibly effective player, obviously. And, you know, but he is a little bit on the older side to be getting this type of money. He'll turn 31 in October Why was it so important for the Steelers to get this deal done that they felt willing to go to that number for TJ? What? You know, I think sometimes you get a little bit you fall in love with the idea of being as cam Hayward described it I believe on Wednesday a one helmet guy. This is a

I believe on Wednesday a one helmet guy. This is a hero for the franchise and the Steelers have plenty of them from their glory days of this 1970s and even through the 90s and Ben Roethlisberger through the 2000s. This is a team that has a lot of players who played their entire career with Pittsburgh and retired and ended up in the Hall of Fame or flirting with the Hall of Fame. This is a player that's undoubtedly going to be in the Hall of Fame and so I think that there's a little bit of influence there. It's also the fact that he's still really damn good. He played 17 games last year at 11 and a half sacks. He was a second team all-pro instead of being a first team all-pro. Four games of the season and I don't know if he

logged a single sack I think in that stretch. Let's see. Yeah, he didn't. The last three games of the season he didn't have a single sack. Those are losses to Baltimore, Kansas City and Cincinnati. All losses that contributed to what they were, you know, they're, you know, defined generally speaking down that stretch. But I mean, like this is, this is a guy that you don't upset fans by letting him walk or trading him away. You don't even let this get to training camp or get to the regular season and become a distraction.

And I think they just learned how distracting things can be. Things like this can be with the whole Aaron Rodgers thing. So getting the deal done now makes sense. I don't know if it's going to pay off necessarily a few years from now, but every once in a while you overpay to secure a legacy of a guy that you're probably going to put his number on the facade of the stadium in the future. And of course the other big question now will be, and this is so common in the NFL, when one guy at a position signs that new market setting deal what's the domino effect for other guys who are looking for new deals either right now or in the near future and you know you

think about Trey Hendrickson in Cincinnati, Micah Parsons in Dallas, what are what do you see as the domino effect for some of those other star edge rushing players now that TJ Watt has signed? Well I mean I mean there's already been three deals that reset the market this off season. Max Crosby got one, didn't even need to get re-signed. And then Miles Geary gets the massive four-year 160, and that resets the market at 40 a year.

Then they give Watt a deal that is a million dollars more a year, but with one less year. So that resets the market again. Now we've got Trey Hendrickson, we've got Micah Parsons, and we've also really looking down the road a couple of years, you got Aidan Hudson. This is a position that's going to continue to rise in price. Now, I think that Hendrickson is an interesting case because, you know, you just kind of made a similar claim with with watt You know, he's a little old you that kind of money and and the Bengals not the biggest spenders they've been you know, they've kind of buffed that trend with what they've done with Jamar chase and T Higgins and Joe burrow, but

They I would not be surprised if they don't end up, you know hitting that number with Trey Hendrickson But Michael Parsons is definitely gonna make more money than that. He's young. He's just entering his prime and he is undoubtedly going to reset that market. Again, like for certain, and he's also in the last year of his deal. So expect that to happen and also expect to talk about that a lot because the Cowboys could have locked them up at a much cheaper rate about a year ago and they didn't do it and now they're going to pay the price and they'll probably pay for it again.

Hutchinson, I think, um, will take a little bit, you know and they didn't do it, now they're going to pay the price and they'll probably pay for it again. Hutchinson I think will take a little bit, I mean he's got two years left on his deal and I think the Lions would probably like to see and make sure that he's back from that leg injury and feels a little ahead of schedule even though they do like to pay their guys pretty early. So basically what it all boils down to is this is just going to continue to be an expensive position and it's going to be really expensive for the Cowboys to resign Mike and Pars. So as you said there the Cowboys don't act at the earliest opportunity to get a star player locked up at a key position and then they see the market reset

sometimes multiple times and it drives the price way up and they're probably gonna end up paying it anyways. This is a repeated pattern for the Cowboys. What, and I guess the answer is just hey it, it's Jerry Jones. Who knows what's going on? But it seems like it happens to them more than any other team in the NFL. What is the deal with this pattern of behavior from the Cowboys? Yeah, it does. Um, you know, sometimes I wonder is this like a lingering effect of paying from paying Ezekiel Elliott and then really regretting that deal. Um, because.

I got, that came with its own holdout period and everything. And Zeke, you know, being on vacation and all that stuff, but he eventually had got his money and, and it wasn't worth it. Um, I mean, his decline was, you know, rather precipitous and I don't think any of us saw it coming other than the fact that, you know, he did have a large workload in his first year NFL seasons, which can be a precursor of what's to come. So when I look at Cowboys deals since, I wonder if they're still holding on to the fact that they paid him too much money at that time. But yeah, otherwise there's really no explanation other than the fact that they've been dragging

their feet. I mean, the NFL is a changing business and Jerry Jones has been doing this since the nineties and like free agency arrived, you know, right around the time he bought the Cowboys. For the first time he's been here for the entire free agency era in the NFL. And I just think that sometimes things evolve and the way you do business, maybe doesn't keep up with it and it's cost them and it's gonna continue to cost them.

And it's frustrating for somebody like me who likes to always look ahead and think, all right, well, how is this team gonna build a Taras in the next three to five years, really two to three years? It's really frustrating to see like, okay, that guy is gonna be in a team for a long time. Pay him now, like he's good.

You have the cap space, it's gonna get worse. So and Parsons is gonna be the probably the worst example of all Another big contract signed earlier this week sauce Gardner with the New York Jets now the highest paid corner in NFL history He's still a very young player He's got I think still a lot of potential and some of the stuff that we've seen from him in his first few years has been As good as we've seen in the league. What is the ceiling there for sauce Gardner and what he can do for the Jets? You know, he's a two-time first-time all-pro. He was defensive rookie of the year. He was almost a defensive player of the year As a rookie so mean, he's been, I can talk a lot, Michael Parsons, the same is true for him too.

He's been very good in his first couple of seasons, but last year was a down year. And it's interesting because, I don't know if you guys remember, but we went into the last season with a bit of anonymous discourse going on within the NFL scouting ranks and the personnel ranks. Some people call him very overrated, most overrated player in the league.

Other people say he was the best player in the league. So it was interesting that he had a bit of a down year following that because it was a pretty polarizing topic and he might just be a polarizing player in general. His numbers have not been as good as they were his rookie year. He's also dealt with a lot of turmoil in New York and I'm, I feel like I'm one of the few that I'm pretty high on the Jets in their new regime. It feels like they finally have adults in the room with their new regime, Darren Moogie and of course Aaron Glanick-Hoch. So it's like, hey, look, this team might actually be doing things the right way for once.

And part of that is resigning key players like Saas Gardner and Garrett Wilson. The difference being this is not their current regime's pick. This is not a, and oftentimes you get this, you get extensions for guys that maybe don't deserve them because it confirms the general manager's pick because he's still in charge and just say, look, I was right. And then I was so right. We're going to pay him a bunch of money. That that's not what was happening here. This is just a player that they really value. And I think that Gardner is going to take the next step with Aaron Glenn as his coach. And Glenn is not the only former NFLer on that defensive staff either. So I think

it's smart to get him signed now. It is a lot of money, but he's also, you know, 24 years old He turns 25 in August. He's just entering his prime and it's It's better than the alternative when it happens when it comes to first round picks of the Jets because I don't know if you remember Now they won this trade but that one first round pick that they really loved two years back. Yeah, they ended up trading him They got two first round takes back by the way way and one of them turned out to be Garrett Wilson. So not a bad haul for them but better to keep the guys that you draft because you've developed them into stars. Nick, training camp gets going next week around the NFL. Which one team are you

most curious to keep an eye on and see how their camp unfolds when it starts up? Hmm, yeah that's interesting because I'm high on what the Jets might be doing, but I don't think you're going to get a lot of that proof in camp. We're all going to pay attention to this deal. There's because of Aaron Rogers and DK Metcalf and Jalen Ramsey and, you know, all the now DJ Watts, you know, signed and ready to go. I think that's going to be a, um,

a huge team to watch in camp and in the preseason or I want to see what Roger looks like in black and gold even if he doesn't take the field just like he did with the Jets. So I think that's one of the big ones and then you guys think about, you know, where else have the big faces, you know, big names changed. New England spent a ton of money this offseason and Mike Vrabel is the coach there now. People are going to want to watch that closely, especially because their training camp didn't go quite well under Gerard Mayo a year ago and was kind of a sign of things to come in

what was a dreadful season for them. And of course, Tennessee came more at a quarterback that probably the least talked about number one pick of the last decade, especially at that position. Uh, that's going to be an intriguing one as well. So there's all kinds of intrigue all around the league, but those are just a few teams off the top of my head. I'll keep, keep keeping my eye out. I wanted to ask you about the Seahawks as well before their training camp gets going and just on the offensive side of the, you know,

at the marquee skill positions, right? Gino Smith out, Sam Darnold in DK Metcalf, and Tyler Lockett out, Cooper Cup in Jackson Smith and Jigba expected to take on a bigger role. What are you expecting new offensive coordinator as well? What are you expecting to see from the Seahawks offense? You know, that's another team that could be listed in that group that we just discussed, which is teams to watch for a number of different reasons. Uh, namely I think it was a risk and you know you could call it a calculated risk because you know Sam Darnold might fit Clint Kuviax approach better, you know

with the back to the line of scrimmage type of thing, the play action, that sort of thing, and that's fine. I do wonder about you know how this receiving core is gonna look and most importantly the offensive line. I know that they've invested a good amount in the offensive line. I still wasn't quite pleased with how they approached it because it was such a weakness in the last couple of years. Now granted Charles Cross made my all-under 25 team a left tackle and I'm sticking by that but

and the investing Grae is able to think there's a lot of uncertainty there. So what is his offense going to look like? Well can they protect Sam Darnall? Because he did a really good job in Minnesota last year but he also was protected really well for most of the year including after losing his starting left tackle and having a veteran come in in the middle of the season. He was cool under pressure until the pressure became overwhelming in the playoffs and in week 18 against Detroit as well.

We saw the damn Donald we knew and loved, knew and forgot about. Now he's the starter there. And if you look at his contract, this is despite the fact that he signed a multi-year deal, the Seahawks can get out after one if it doesn't work. So the pressure is going to be on on this group. What does Cooper Cup have left in the tank? You know, there's all these different pieces that have to kind of come together. A lot of uncertainty there, but what do I think? I think that Donald's not going to have a year as good as he did last year, which would be kind of unfair to expect at this point. But it's going to be better enough up front that they're going to be competitive.

And I do think that they may be pretty versatile when it comes to how they move the football down the field. You know, it's not going to be a run first or a pass first type thing. I think it's going to be pretty balanced. It's going to require JSN to do, to have a bigger role. And it's going to require Cooper Cup to have a bounce back here, which I think he will. Nick, really appreciate it. Can't wait for training camp to get going and preseason the regular season soon

enough as well. Thanks for doing this today. Uh, do you have me? Yes. That is Nick shook from NFL.com doing a fantastic job covering the NFL. You can go check out his work and follow him on Twitter at the Nick shook as well. You're a confirmed 12 What are you feeling about the Seahawks? Alright, alright, that's that's Homer code for I'm worried about the team. No. No, I'm excited What's your prediction for the NFC West like it's the one division. I really can't figure out right now

the Niners are just such a such a wild card. Yeah, I they were pretty bad last year and Understandably lots of injuries. They've had a quite like a decent shakeup I'm not the biggest Brock Purdy guy and that's not simply because he's a 49ers player Sure, although I'm of course now completely in the tank for Sam Darnold Although I'm of course now completely in the tank for Sam Darnold I'm very being very consistent there. Certainly. You never chirped Dom Sharmaddy about Sam Darnold in the past Oh my god I probably there's probably like an hour's worth of audio from shows of him hyping up Sam Darnold and me telling him how bad he is Yeah

Yeah, the NFC West. That was pre-Vikes Sam Darnold. That's right. Before he really turned it around. The NFC West, Ben, to your point, it feels like it's just going to be a very competitive division, I think, this year. Especially because the Niners had so many injuries last year, but also they lost so many close games. There was a lot of late comebacks. They lost to the Rams in that thriller of a game. The Rams could be a good team. Uh, I don't think even Arizona puts up fights against people. That's the thing. Yeah. It wouldn't surprise me if they're like decent, right? And at least making the games competitive, right?

It takes a step. Like they have got a good run game with Connors. Like they can do some damage. That's what a team, none of those teams, you're like, Oh, I'm pumped to play them. That's automatic wind day. Yeah, for sure. Uh, six 50, six 50 is the Dunbar lumber text line. We're going into the final hour here just to map things out. We're going to chat with the Moj next. Uh, lions have a big game coming up against the rough riders at home tomorrow. So we'll chat with the Moj about that,

maybe get his thoughts on the Dakota Joshua deal and what might be next for the Canucks as well. And of course we got to ask Moj and ask us anything food questions. So if you want to hear the Moj, a pine on something food related, send your ask us anything in for him. 6 50 6 50 and send your ask us anything or you're what we learned in whatever it might be because it is an ask us anything Friday and we're going to give away a hundred dollar gift card to AJ's pizza on East Broadway for the best submission make sure you include the pizza emoji when you text it in we'll

announce the winner at 830 but you've still got a chance to get it in so an ask us anything you can ask us as it says anything that you want anything that's on your mind we'll try to give you the best answer we can or what we learned hashtag WWL what you learned in the last 24 hours in sports. Send those in and stick around the Moj next year on Sportsnet 650.