Halford & Brough in the Morning - Who Are the All-Time Squandered Athletes?

Episode Date: August 19, 2025

In hour one, guest hosts Jamie Dodd and Dan Riccio dive into the last 24 hours in sports. The Jays lose to the Pirates and which athlete had his talents wasted most by their team? The guys discuss the top all-time squandered athletes.  This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. You're listening to Halford and Brough. Burrow to throw, his pass into the end zone, is caught by Charlie Jones to the back right corner of the end zone for the touchdown. Oh, oh. And Tommy Pham with something. to say, I believe, at the plate. I'm not worried about Tommy fam's

opinion about anything. The live, fly ball to deep right center field. He did it again. Good morning. Welcome to Halford and Brough here on Sportsnet 650. I'm Jamie Dodd. Dan Richio with me

for the week. Good morning, Reach. What's going on, man? Living the dream, Jamie. How's day two? How's day two? day two always a little tougher in the morning on the wake up just don't let me hear you complaining about the time I'm sorry right

one of the first things I learned in morning radio is don't show any weakness never complain about that's right no yawning that's part of that's one of profs rules no yawning or at least do it well yawning is contagious you know I guess but it's also

it's early what do you sometimes we're going to yawn it's 601 it's yawning it's yawning time peak yawning hours right now it might be okay to like you know for for for for brough and and maybe halford i don't know um they're used to it yeah they do this you guys do this on a regular basis well laddie's the only uh the the only regular although and we have uh elan producing good morning Elon good morning Gus and laddie here as well hello I'm sleepy still I was gonna say because I have heard I've talked to people and I know like sat used to do the morning

show at the old station and the word I've heard is always you don't ever really get used to it yeah You're like, oh, yeah, I'll adjust. It's like, no, you won't. It's inhuman and you will not adjust. Laddie is not in his head. I think we're all night owls on the show, too. Yes. Well, if you're a sports fan, we are not getting good sleep.

Yeah. Not a chance. You just mix in a couple of different naps during the day. Try to. I won't lie to you. I did fall asleep for a moment or two during the Blue Jays game last night. You doze off. During baseball?

What? No, impossible. And then Tommy Fams Outburst woke me up. So it was all good. There you go. We are broadcasting live from the Kintech studio, Kintech Footwear and Orthotics, working together with you in step. Halford and Brough is brought to you by Sands and Associates.

Learn how a consumer proposal could get you on the road to being debt free in just two weeks. Visit Sands dash trustee.com. And of course, 650, 650 is the Dunbar Lumber Text Line. Metro Vancouver's trusted choice for contractors and rental warriors for over 50 years. visit them at one of their three locations to serve you or online at Dumbar Lumber.com and never too early to start sending your what we learned submissions in. Of course, that's coming up at 830. Hashtag WWL what you've learned in the last 24 hours in sports. Looking ahead to the rest of the show. We got an open hour here to start. So of course, we'll do what's happened in a minute

here. Maybe we'll get into some NFL, NHL conversations at 630 as well. But if it's If there's anything you want to hear us chat about at 630, any burning Canucks questions, NHL questions, NFL questions you might have, hit us up 650, 650. We'll see if we can get to him at 630. The guest list at 7. We've got Richard Zockel, former pro golfer, of course, the tour championship is this week. So we can chat with him about that. Is it just a matter of it's going to be a coronation for Scotty Sheffler?

It's also kind of anti-climactic because it's like, it's the tour championship. It's like, but we all know who the champion of the tour is. It's Scotty Sheffler. Yes, I would love for Sheffler to win and then have bigger earnings this year than any of the live guys. It's like, I didn't have to take the live money and I'm still making live money. I also would love for him to, and he wouldn't do this because it's not his personal. But even if he loses the tour champion, you just be like, yeah, but we all know who the best player is. Enjoy your tour championship.

I'm still Scotty Sheffler. He's going to go post post round Sunday. Like, you know, I didn't really care. Yeah, this doesn't mean that much to me, to be honest, guys. So we'll chat about that with Richard Zokel. Maybe look ahead a little bit to some of the Ryder Cup decisions that the teams are going to have to make as well. At 7.30, really looking forward to this.

Yes, Persorensen, White Caps manager, of course, fresh off managing in Thomas Mueller's debut match at BC Place on Sunday, not the result they wanted with the late equalizer for Houston. So we can chat a little bit about the results. what his team needs to clean up, but also, of course, what he saw from Thomas Mueller and what to expect from the Mueller experiment,

the Mueller era for the white caps going forward. It's interesting, too, though, because there's a bunch of other storylines around the white caps right now. I mean, obviously, the playoff race and gearing up for MLS Cup, but also, you know, as you mentioned, Jaden Nelson looked fantastic in that game. They just brought in Kenji Cabrera as well, who's flown completely under the radar,

but I'm sure they're excited about him and have plans for him. And then, of course, the transfer window closes in just a couple of days here. And as we talked about it on the show yesterday, I'm sure they're looking for centerback help. So a lot to get into if Yesper Sorensen. Yeah, I'm excited to talk to Yesper. It's, you know, when you get the shiny new toy like Thomas Mueller, I'm sure the manager's just got a million things that he would like to do in his mind. And now he's got a full week of training with Mueller here in Vancouver to try and integrate some new ideas

and get him more up to speed with what the white caps are all about. So really looking forward to chatting with Yesper Sorensen. That's at 7.30. At 8 o'clock, we will chat with Micahaway from the BC Lions, BC Lions linebacker and they're finally back to 500 on the season. So we'll chat with him about the team's season so far. What's going right in recent weeks, what they need to do, especially on the defensive side of the ball to really profile as Gray Cup contenders going into the playoffs. So at 8 o'clock, Micahaway, 730.

Sorensen, 7 o'clock, Richard Zockel. That's what's coming up on the show. Laddie, let's tell everyone what happened. Hey, did you guys see the game last night? No. What happened? I missed all the action because I'm losing. We know how busy your life can be.

What happened? You missed that? What happened? What happened is brought to you by the BC Construction Safety Alliance, making safety simpler by giving construction companies the best. in tools, resources, and safety training. Visit BCCSA.ca.com.C.S.A. and Reach wanted me to mention this, which I didn't even know. You broke the news to me. The Air Canada strike is over. It's over. Our national nightmare is over. They figured it out.

Honestly, like brought back memories of NHL lockouts and stuff like that and like, you know, waiting up until all hours of the morning. They're still talking. They're still negotiating, grinding away at it. I thought you were going to say brought back memories of like teacher strikes. I remember there was a good one when I was in high school I think we missed a whole week I was like that's amazing There was a few when I was younger Get on the picket line guys this is great Keep it going

Yep Get on that picket line but the Air Canada strike is over So hopefully all flights will resume Shortly and you'll be able to get to wherever it is You're going through the end of the summer So there you go the Air Canada strike is over All right to the sports side of things We will start in Major League Baseball

It was the Blue Jays versus the Pirates But really the Blue Jays Versus Paul Skeens I think was the way it was being billed more than anything. The J's going up against probably the best pitcher in Major League Baseball right now. And they got too early off of Paul Skeens. They took a 2-1 lead,

but they couldn't manage much else, and they lose 5-2 ultimately. And this was an, there's a lot to talk about coming out of this game. We heard the clip from John Schneider on Tommy Fam. And I mean, what on earth is Tommy Fam's deal? That's a whole other question.

I don't know if we have the time or the resources to really figure that out on the show today. Just like randomly. accusing blue jays of things i don't i don't understand what's going on with tommy fan bat flip after a walk for some reason getting into getting into it getting into a tyler heideman at all people like the backup catcher what's your deal buddy what's going on here he's mad the blue jays never traded for he had a bad day he's having a bad day okay guys it's been having a bad day for like five years in a row i think judging by the other stories about tommy fam anyways uncharacteristically sloppy defensive game

for the Jays. You know, Tyler Heinemann drops the ball for the tag play at at home. Yario Rodriguez throws it away. Another throwing error on trying to catch the guy stealing at seconds. So just a lot going wrong in the field for the Jays.

I also wonder, we can have a conversation about their pitching, but probably the biggest concern from that game for the Jays is not so much the loss, but it's Vladdy leaving the game with left hamstring tightness and another play where he makes a great play as a first baseman stretching out, basically doing the splits to dig a ball out from bow on a tough throw at shortstop. And it's in the moment,

you're like, wow, that's pretty impressive. Yeah. There's a big fella. And he's doing the splits out there. Good for him. And then he leaves the game with left hamstring tightness. So really, I think a lot of Jay's fans and I'm sure the Jays themselves are going to be holding their breaths a little bit here. I wouldn't be surprised. And John Schneider kind of said after the game, you know, at this point of the season, everyone's kind of just grinding through the physical toll of the season. So I wonder if this was more precautionary than anything, but we were just talking yesterday, a red hot Vladdy, which he has been recently, is so important to what this team is doing right now, to what they want to do in the postseason. It's a concern. Anytime he leaves the lineup, you're going to be concerned.

Well, he's been one of the best hitters in baseball for the second half of the season, had nine home runs, you know, he gets the RBI off of skeins early, everything going to how you want it to go for Vladi Guerrero Jr. And this pops up. It's not great. There's going to be an MRI scheduled for Vladi. You know, if he needs to go on the IL, then put him on the IL. There's no reason.

You're still five games up in the division. This is one of the reasons he went out and got Tommy or sorry, Ty France, to at least be able to have a little bit more cover at first base and have, and he's been pretty good since coming over from the. Minnesota twins. So you have a little bit more cover. Although if you give Thai France more at bats, you'll probably see more of the Thai France we saw in Minnesota as the season goes on. I get all that. But you have a little bit of a cushion here to play it slow with Vlad Guerrero. And ultimately, that's what matters most. I think this is like baseball does this numerous times over the course of

the season, Jamie, where it's just like you get excited. The team's, playing well they take two or three from the texas rangers you feel pretty good about that and then they go into pittsburgh and you get a couple early on on paul skeins you feel pretty good about it but you can't get the win vladdie gets hurt the defense doesn't look great just an all-around night where you're like oh this was frustrating to watch for uh for blue jays fans and fortunately it is a bit of a case of kind of no harm no foul here for the jays because the Red Sox lost to the Orioles. So the Jays remained five up in the division on both the Yankees and the Red Sox now, having

said that they did lose top spot in the AAL. They're half game back of the Tigers for the top spot in the AAL overall. Which kind of feels like a big deal because of how good the Jays have been at home. I don't know how much I believe in home road splits all that much. But the Jays are like, what, 20 games above? Well, they certainly talk like 500 on the road. They certainly talk it up, how much they love playing at home. fans and all that. Now, look, you're going to get a good atmosphere anywhere in the postseason,

but they're pretty into it. How's it helped them the last couple of postseason appearances? How about that series against the Mariners? Yeah. That was great. The fans really helped them there. Blow, whoa, was it? Eight-nothing lead? Oh, man. Tough stuff. Still can't believe they took burrios out making. No, that wasn't the Burrios game, was it? That was in Minnesota. Oh, yeah. The one where they took Burrios out. Yeah, that's right. That one was in Minnesota. Anyways, I'm sure something else disastrous. There was another disastrous managing decision decision in that one so there is a fair bit to talk about from that jays game and as i said you know it's just sloppy defensive game flattie leaving but i think my biggest question coming out

of watching that one is about the pitching and it's really about the pitching staff as a whole and you know you and i were texting back and forth a little bit early on in that game when gosman was struggling with his command a little bit and you know the jays score two uh on paul skeins and you feel really good about that you're up to one okay hey we've got the lead we've got one of our best pitchers on the mound. Let's go and try to lock this down. And, you know, maybe once we chase Paul Skeens, we can pad the lead a little bit more. And instead, Gosman comes out and it's a tough inning and he gives the run right back and he can't really find the strike zone. And it's a two-two game. And you feel pretty frustrated in the moment that your pitcher wasn't able to lock it

down in that situation. And I just look at it now. We've been having the playoff rotation conversation. And if it's some combination in some order of Bieber, Scherzer, Gosman, there are really questions around all three. And the big thing that stands out about that rotation to me is you're not missing a ton of bats. Like Max Scherzer at this point of his career, the velocity is down from where it was at his peak. He's not really the power pitcher anymore, right? He can still strike guys out. Don't get me wrong, but that's not his calling card in the same way it was earlier in his career. Gosman has never really been that kind of prototypical power pitcher.

You know, Bieber, again, more of a control guy than a total power pitcher. And we know in the postseason, the ability to miss bats becomes so important. And you even look in the bullpen for the Jays, they've got guys who can miss bats, of course, especially with Varland coming over. But it's also like every bullpen now has guys who are elite at striking guys out. And so even by that metric, I'm not sure how the Jays measure up against some of the other playoff teams. And, you know, this was just against the Pittsburgh Pirates. So it's not like they were even going up against a fantastic lineup.

But in those postseason games, when you really need to get the outs, it's so important to be able to miss bats. And that's probably my number one question about the Js going into the playoffs is do they have enough of that in the starting rotation and in the bullpen? It's, um, it's tough because they don't really have. that ace that you'd love to see. The Roy Halliday's of the past, the Randy Johnson's for Mariners fans or Felix Hernandez's as well. You look around the AL though,

there's not a ton of those guys. No, I'm not... Scoobel. Yeah, it's scoble, crochet, if Boston gets in. Houston's got Hunter Brown and Valdez that are pretty good. The Yankees with Max Fried,

he's been really good this year. one of their big signings, Mariners with Brian Wu. So you look at some of the playoff teams, and there's a couple of those guys, but really when you stack Gosman up against some of those other names that I mentioned, he's not too far off what they've been able to provide so far for their teams this summer. And I think with Gosman, it's just, we've seen some really ugly starts from him this year. Yeah. Yeah, he's been in a good stretch.

Yes. And even last night, you know, what, he gives up two runs. So it's not like it's a disaster, but it's just, it's almost like to me last night is one of those ones where I almost come away more confident in where Gosman's at right now because he's able to battle through it and still get, give you a quality. So that word battle, I think is absolutely right. That's what he was doing. He was battling.

It concerns me that it's like, okay, you're needing to battle against the pirates. How's that battle going to go when you're playing a. team in the playoffs. That's my concern. It's like, you're right. He didn't have his best stuff. It's like, okay, he found a way to get it done and still have a quality start, but it's that we all know what it's like watching a pitcher who's like, Maeton doesn't have his best stuff, so he's a little bit afraid to go in the zone. He's nibbling on the edges and, you know, not really controlling it. When you're doing that against a really good postseason lineup, you're getting punished. And it's, we know it can be prone to the home

run ball and those types of things can really hurt you in the playoffs because one big swing, can really change your outcome in the postseason when every pitch matters. I still think, like, the Js have a compliment of a few good pitchers, but are they going to have the best guy on the mound to start a playoff series? Probably not is the way I'd look at it. And unless Bieber comes back and looks fantastic. That's why I loved what they did with Bieber and going out and acquiring him, because it's like how many starting pitchers were really out there for you to go out and acquire

that had that kind of ace potential. And Bieber is one of those guys. It's just, is that going to happen right away coming off Tommy John surgery? He's going to make his first start Friday against the Marlins. We'll see how it goes. He's looked great in the minors. But the potential of Bieber, the ceiling of Bieber is that he can be an anchor for this rotation going into the playoffs. It's just we don't feel 100% great about it because the guy just had Tommy John and hasn't pitched for the last year plus. Yeah. So you're going to need to see it and see it a lot here in a relatively short time before you're really feeling that great about Bieber. Should mention the Mariners as well. They lose 12-7 to the Phillies. Rare tough outing for Logan Gilbert. He got

chased after giving up six runs in the second inning. Now, the Astros lost as well. So the Mariners still a game and a half back of Houston in the AL West and a bit, we mentioned on the show yesterday, a bit of a speed bump for the Mariners here. That's now three in a row. And I believe four of their last five or five of their last six. Five of the last six now, but they have dropped. It is interesting in the American League, though, there's some interesting, well, I mean, even the division races, really the only super close one is the AL West. And unless Cleveland gets red hot, which they haven't really shown a lot of signs that that's in the cards. We kind of know the playoff teams. already so even for the mariners like oh they've lost five of six they're still not really in danger

of dropping out of a postseason spot so they want to win the division i know that's really important to them they haven't won it in forever and you'd love to get hot and catch the astros here but it's also not super high stakes baseball at the moment as much as we want to be like oh man it's it's the it's the playoff stretch and everything we kind of know the postseason teams and so mariners drop one but the astros lose as well and they can kind of just go on to the next one and to hopefully get back on the winning track. Well, the schedule for the Mariners, like Blue Jays do have an easier schedule to finish the season.

And I think that's going to help them lock down one of those buy week, well, buys through the first round of the postseason. And I think that's, you know, the whole Rust versus Rest conversation. Give you the rest every single day of the week. But for the Mariners, you know, going up against the Phillies, tough task. you're going to have a little bit of a lighter stretch after that but you still got San Diego and Cleveland coming up on the schedule

and I think this is you know this stretch here is going to be telling can they write the ship now that they are slumping after that eight game win streak you don't want to give it all back after a big win streak like that and they're in danger of doing that so they need to write the ship here quickly and get things going back in the right direction all right that's the story for major league baseball last night now we will get into some NFL stuff there was a preseason game there's some convos we want to have in the next segment but before we do that just while we're talking baseball here and of course it was the jays and paul skeins yesterday and it's kind of tough because you want the story with Paul skeins to be like man this guy's a phenom right he's still so young he's so early in his career and he's been so dominant already like the sky is the limit for this guy he's we're really watching a Hall of Fame career start in real time here, and it's really exciting. And that's part of it, of course, with Paul Skeens.

He's a pleasure to watch. But because he plays for the Pirates, a huge part of the story is also, I can't believe how much they're wasting this incredible, incredible pitcher they have in Paul Skeens. And, you know, gets the win yesterday. But really, like, he is having a classic squandered season in what is shaping up to be an all-time squandered career, or at least there. squandered tenure in Pittsburgh because I think we're all kind of doing the countdown

to like when do they get when do they decide to trade this guy? When do they decide to go call up the Dodgers or call up the Yankees and say hey give us the hall. Back up back up the Brinks truck of prospects and whatever for us and and we'll give you Paul Skeens. But it got me thinking a little bit

all right. Like is Paul Skeen's going to enter the pantheon of wasted athletes? Like incredible individual performers stuck on just horribly incompetent teams that could never put enough around them to actually do something impressive. Is he the picture version of Mike Trout? Is that what you're saying? I basically, yeah. Man, Mike Trout's career. What, uh, I know he's been hurt a lot and all that,

but like, guy is building golf courses in his off time now because of what a disaster. The the angels have been and never, I mean, they, they were able to put Shohei Otani next to him and they were great, but they couldn't figure out the rest of their roster for years. And it feels like, you know, Skeens is headed that way. Yes. He's you know, baseball, how long does it usually take? You know, was Argentinima drafted the same year

as Paul Skeens? It feels like it. Yeah, maybe one year. It might have been a year late. Actually, you might be right. But now he was drafted at high school. I know. And Skeens drafted out of college. But, you know, he's still in high A ball here in Vancouver, whereas Skeens was drafted first overall in 2023 and he's been

like arguably the best pitcher in baseball. ever since he started for the NL in each of the two All-Star games. He was rookie of the year last year, finished third in Cy Young voting. He's going to have another year here where he's probably winning the Cy Young in the NL, unless the voters get a little bit weird with it. But it's been essentially the best 50 games start to a career in the history of baseball. Like you have to go pre-war to kind of look at. at some guys that had similar numbers, maybe Dwight Gooden as well as similar numbers to Paul

Skeens through the first 50 starts of their career. And this is in the modern game. I think it's fascinating what he's been able to do. And it's frustrating as a baseball fan that he's stuck on the pirates. It is. And stuck in the basement of the NL Central in perpetuity because the pirates just as an ownership group don't care to win baseball games is what my sense is of the situation certainly and that's the sense in pittsburgh as well but the ownership bob nothing i believe is his name the ownership group fantastic name just does not care whatsoever about actually trying to invest in the team he wants nothing to do with the playoffs that's right and that was always the thing like as a sports fan i have no affinity for the pittsburgh pirates but i want to see paul skeins pitch in a big game

yeah i wanted to see mike trout in big moments that's one of the reasons the world baseball classic was so exciting wow mike trout in a game that actually has stakes i don't know how to adjust to this I don't know how to really react to this. It was so cool to see. Mike Trout might be number one. If we're doing like all time athletes whose careers have been wasted by their teams, Mike Trout was a freak when he came into it. And it was a similar thing where he was so young and he was just so clearly the best player in the league,

absolutely dominant, like perfect all around player, not a flaw in his game. And that was when he was staying healthy all the time as well. And just nothing. I mean, he should have. one MVP in his first season, but I think was it Miggie? Miguel Cabrera ended up winning the triple crown that year, something crazy. Yeah, he did. He won triple crown that year, had 330 average 44 homers, 139 RBI.

Miguel Cabrero was great, but he was seven wins per baseball reference while Mike Trout was worth more than 10 wins that year. In only 140 games too, which is nuts. As a 20-year-old, I mean, he was the best player in baseball led baseball in war for five years straight to start his career. It's insane what Mike Trout was and had early on in his career. And I know it's gone a little bit haywire with the injuries and everything like that. But it is a travesty that we've only been able to see him in three playoff games. The other one, the other two I think that are most prominent in this

conversation and both for me take the cake jamie because they retired because of how bad their team was yeah it's barry sanders and calvin john i was going to say barry sanders i think is like the archetype of this conversation where he was just like this sucks i'm out guys like are you kidding me yeah i mean and then it happened again with calvin johnson not not only did it just happen once Calvin johnson megatron was like you know what Barry Sanders was right. I think I'm done with this. And thankfully, Matthew Stafford got out.

He's like, this team has driven my love of football away. I'm out. Sorry. Growing up in that small town that you just can't get out of. Yeah. I'm a lucky one. I got out. That's Matthew Stafford compared to Barry Sanders and Calvin Johnson.

If only Dan Campbell had come along earlier, those guys could have been happy in Detroit. I think Barry Sanders has to be near the top of this list. When you have to retire to get yourself. out of a crappy situation that leads to no playoff success, then you know it's pretty bad. There's a lot of good texts coming in about this. The athlete whose talent has been wasted the most by his or her team, the most squandered athletes of all time.

You can text in 650, 650. We can pick that up on the other side. Get into some NFL stuff as well. Maybe check in on the NHL too. Again, send your text in 650, 650. It is Halford & Brough here on Sportsnet, 650. Welcome back, Halford and Brough, Sportsnet 650, Jamie Dot Dan Riccio, filling in for the guys this week. Halfin Brough brought to you by Sands and Associates, BC's first and trusted choice for debt help with over 3,000.

thousand five-star reviews. Visit sands dash trustee.com. We are broadcasting live from the Kintech Studio 650-6-50 is the Dumbar-Lumber text line Metro Vancouver's trusted choice for contractors and rent a warriors for over 50 years. Visit them at one of their three locations to serve you or online at Dumbar Lumber.com. It's, it's big band Tuesday here on the show, Reach. Is that a thing?

Apparently. I feel like they got a lot of themes. So it's Big Band Tuesday. I mean, apparently. It was like the OG. Oh, we're listening to it right now. Big Band Tuesday was the original. We've got Big Band Tuesday.

It's throwback Monday we just had. Yeah, that one's like 80s style. It's to cheer bruff up. Yeah. It makes them happy. That one's a little, it's the weakest of the theme days, I would say. Well, Eurodance Wednesday. I don't know.

That's true. Eurodance Wednesday. Eurodance Wednesday. Yeah. That's going to be right up my alley. Sure. Yeah. Thrash Thursday, which is highly controversial.

Okay. All right. And then Fiesta. Friday. Of course. Fiesta Friday sounds fun. I felt like we were you know in a 50s diner ready to do some swing dancing. Absolutely. That's what it's supposed to feel like. It's supposed to transport you. Classes up the show a little bit. You know, it needs it. That does it? Anyways, you can send

your, you can send your text in and we were having a conversation just before the break there about athletes who have been squandered by their teams. And of course, that's in light of seeing the Jays go up against Paul Skeens. And he gets the win yesterday, at least his team gets the win. But overall, yes, he is being squandered and certainly in danger of continuing to be squandered by the Pittsburgh Pirates. We asked you to text some of your suggestions in. Now, I do love Canucks fans because immediately we got like four texts just saying Quinn Hughes. It's like, you know what, guys? Let's revisit that in a year. We can have that conversation a year from now and we'll see. We'll check in, but I'm not touching it. I'm not touching

it right now. The thing I would say, like if you're going to look at current NHL players, Quint Hughes is an even highest on the list from his own draft class when it comes to squandered athlete. Because Rasmus Dahlene is second among active players for games played without making a playoff appearance. He's already played more than 500 games in his career without making a playoff appearance. So I get where Canucks fans are coming from and they're not completely off base because Quinn Hughes is the best defenseman in the league. and the Canucks have only a handful of playoff wins with him on their rosters. It's not good enough, and it's not Quinn Hughes's fault. It's the rest of the team's fault.

But still, there are bigger and stronger examples across the league than Quinn Hughes. Now, you said Dahlene, which I think is a good shout, second on the list of most games played without making the playoffs. Who's first? Also, longtime Buffalo Saber. Rasmus Ristolitan. Shocking that it's a pair of six. sabers on the top of that list. The top three on the list. And actually, if Jeff Skinner hadn't played for the Edmonton Oilers, uh, the top four on the list would have all had time spent

with the Buffalo Sabers. Yeah. The list goes Risto, Rasmus Dahlene. Uh, so a couple of Rasmai at the top of the list. Yeah. And, um, third on the list is Tage Thompson. There you go. So it's the Buffalo connection. So Buffalo Sabers. And, uh, maybe. the most all-time squandered NHL player Pierre Turgeon. Yeah, there you go. Although, with Pierre Turgeon, though, was it more like about him? You know what I mean? And I'm not thinking it was,

but that feels like the conversation. Yeah. Where people are like, oh, he wasn't good enough more so than his team's not putting the right players around him. I mean, he's a Hall of Famer. He scored 1,300 points of the league. He did. He scored a lot of points. He scored an awful lot of points.

I feel like a lot of people scored a lot of points back in the early 90s. through the prime of Pierre Turgeon's career. He did play 109 playoff games. Yeah. Still, for a guy, and it's the biggest reason why he took so long to get into the playoffs, even with the numbers he had in his career. He wasn't good enough from a winning perspective. How much of that was on him?

How much of that was on his teammates? I don't know. That's subjective. We did have someone as we go to hockey here on this conversation. Somebody texted in, good morning, boys. I feel like Carrie Price needs to be at the top of the list. love my habs but for his whole career they could not get get together one really great top line they squandered and wasted some amazing years from mr price so that does that prevent him from being on that list now was his final year so it was kind of past his prime he wasn't vintage carry price

and i also think that whole and i hate to do this to habs fans but like i don't look at that as a legit contender even though they were in the stanley cup final and it was the north division season and all that it was just kind of a weird year a weird situation so yeah they made the cup final i don't you can't take that away from them but it's also not like oh they put this juggernaut finally around carrie price that made this deep run it was more wow this team managed to find a way to sneak through to the cup final i don't know the covid year maybe would we bubble playoffs had something to do exactly exactly would we say that the habs squandered carry price's talent i don't know um i wouldn't say that they did but they they also didn't put a strong enough

team around them. It's it's kind of one of those yeah both things can be true at the same time like they had your guy's that yeah they they had uh they had uh they had a some decent teams but carry price more than anything I mean you know you don't win an MVP you don't want a heart trophy as a goalie with a great team around you know Connor Hellebuck maybe of of heart trophy winning goalies had the best team around him this year compared to Jose Theodore and Cary Price, the more recent goalies to have won heart trophies. I just, I don't know. I'm not willing to go there for Cary Price because he had such an incredible career, did make a playoff, a Stanley Cup appearance, has won a gold medal. I don't think his career was necessarily squandered as much as some other

NHL players. This one comes in Marcel Dion gets a couple of mentions on the Dunbar-Lumber text message inbox. I mean, he's still top five in scoring all time in National Hockey League history. So Marcel Dion might be the best NHL example. And obviously this

is, you know, before our time really being dialed in to the NHL, his career ends in in 1989. But you look, you just go to his hockey DB page and it's 1,700 points and he only got into 49 career playoff games. that's wild.

That's a wild ratio. So I think the people who are texting in Marcel Dion, that's a good shout. That might be the number one name in hockey history for this conversation. Now, a bunch of people, and I thought this text would come in, and I think it's a really interesting discussion. Does Connor McDavid belong on this list?

I don't think that's the thing. Because when we're really talking about, you know, the Mike Trouts, the Barry Sanders, Marcel Dion, it's not just, well, they never won it's they never came close they were not never a perennial playoff team if they did go to the playoffs it was a short appearance and then a long absence until the next one and they could just never it wasn't they couldn't get over the hump it was they could never even get close to it and with mac david you've been to two straight cup finals and so it's hard to say you're squandering

now it is interesting because you look at earlier in his career it took them a long time to get out of their own way and really put a decent team around him i think you could also say going into this season, how do you roll with the Stuart Skinner, Callen Pickard, goaltender combination again, right? Like, what are you doing? I think if Connor McDavid

finishes his tenure with the Oilers and they don't win a cup, then I think it does start to become a legitimate conversation. Like, how did you not win a cup with Connor McDavid on your team for a long stretch with him doing what he was doing? I'm not willing to say he's being squandered yet because they have been so close

and they've clearly been one of the best teams in the NHL in recent years. So there's a couple of really strong thoughts on this. McDavid, full stop. You have a player like that. Make the finals twice, have nothing to show for it, and plenty of early exit. Yeah, complete waste. Number one is McDavid.

How many years wasted in Edmonton right now? Greg from Surrey on the Dunbar Lumber text message inbox. I feel like because there is the two Stanley Cup final appearances. Now, he did win a Con Smythe in a losing cause. so this maybe helps his squandered case his argument because he had to put the team on his shoulders to get them to the final and get them to game seven of the Stanley Cup final against Florida last year

and then this year they were just so clearly second best in the Stanley Cup final to the Florida Panthers that yeah it's you need superhuman performances from McDavid because your team just isn't quite as deep, as good as the Florida Panthers have been the last couple of years. And I think this really gains steam if the Oilers do fall back. And it feels like, given their summer, as you mentioned, Jamie, I don't think they're a guarantee to get back to the finals.

Leon Drysiddle is going to have the wedding hangover. You know, he's hack and darts after his wedding. you know, it's a thing. The wedding hangover is a thing. I'm going to go to my grave with this one. Did you have that in your work after you got married? I did. I'm not ashamed, you know?

I showed up Labor Day after Labor Day, a day after getting back from Europe after my wedding and my honeymoon, I wasn't any good to sat that week. Put reach in the same conversation as Drysidal there. Right in the same conversation. But the wedding hangover is a thing. early on last season for Connor McDavid even before he caught fire towards the end of the year and helped

Edmonton get back to another Stanley Cup final. This might not be the best for Elias Pedersen believers although it's all unconfirmed. Those are very unconfirmed reports. We're completely unsure. But, you know, he's got nowhere to go but up. That's right. But my feeling on this is like, you know, Vegas got

Mitch Marner. What did Edmonton do so far this summer? Yeah. You know, and it's, if you're trying to be that team that's going to a third straight Stanley Cup final in the salary cap era that doesn't really happen so I'm curious where this goes from here

and I think maybe McDavid's thinking about that himself given that he hasn't resigned in Edmonton. I think the conversation on this really heats up if he if and when his time in Edmonton is over then you're going to have the conversation about like was that an all time fumble if he leaves Edmonton without

getting a Stanley Cup it's going to be hard not to look at it in that way. The player that would have been probably biggest on this if Ray Bork didn't leave Boston sure yeah if he doesn't join Colorado well I think you could still have him on the list because Boston fumbled it yeah Boston blew it yeah and then Boston like had a parade for him when he came back because they were like felt so bad for him that he had to go somewhere else to win the cup because Ray Bork you know we talk about the best defenseman of all time and everybody's Bobby Orr and and Nick Lidstrom and more recently, you know,

everybody's got love for Drew Doughty and Eric Carlson and Duncan Keith and some of these guys. And, yeah, Ray Bork is known as one of the best defensemen of all time, but I don't know if hockey fans remember just how incredible Ray Bork was. One absolute stud, he was.

He's similar to like, similar to like you go to Barry Bonds baseball reference page. When you go to Ray Bork's hockey reference page, you're like, holy, I forgot. just how what a freak this guy was. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely insane how good Ray Bork was.

$1,500, over 1,500 points as a defense in his curve here. His numbers are mind-blowing how good Ray Bork was. And Boston did not have a ton of success with him anchoring that team. And that's not Ray Bork, that's not how Ray Bork, given what he meant to that Boston team. I actually think Ray Bork sneakily has one of the most like, off-the-radar, impressive seasons in NHL history and it's none of them it's not from his peak yeah it's as a 40 year old with Colorado he had 59 points in 80 games in like the height of the dead pock era it's like I'm a 40 year old defenseman yeah it's what it's like it's like it's hard and he's

playing 26 minutes a night for Colorado and then he retired it's like I feel like you could have kept playing man you were a machine even in your final season uh ray bork is a really good shout there um Mike theorologist in Brockville text in Dan Marino is the classic NFL example, if you haven't already mentioned it for sure. He also says Joe Burrow is heading in that direction. That's an interesting one, very much shown. Of course, Burrow was in action last night in the NFL, his Bengals and preseason action, beat the commanders 31, 17.

Burrow goes 9 for 14 with a touchdown, but it was very much. Is Mike reading my notes, by the way? Mike, if you have one of the best receivers in the league, or is it your team's fault that you're not getting there. He went to a Super Bowl. He did go to a Super Bowl, but, okay, so he has Jemar Chase. You're right. Has T. Higgins.

They're paying his receivers for him. He's got a terrible offensive line. You've got to talk about the old line. You've got to talk about the defense. And so I do, and it's interesting with Dan Marino because I think now we look at Dan Marino as, oh, how did they, how did they waste his talent? Yeah. I think at the time it was this guy can't win the big one.

Yeah. I think that it was more like, oh, it's, it's Dan Marino's fault, but he's not getting over the hump more so than it's the Dolphins's fault. And I think that's kind of what you're saying. Like it's always a debate how much of it lands on the team and how much of it lands on the quarterback. Because even last night, you know, there's the viral play of he's running around and eventually takes the sack and his O-Line's not doing very much.

And everyone's like, oh, this O-Line's a joke. But you can also point to it and say like, Joe Burrow. Throw the ball away, man. It's all like, what do you do it? How many years has he been hurt too? Yeah, right? Like, it's preseason to drop and, and just concede the sack. Just like, it's pretty season.

What are you doing here? So there is an element of culpability for him here as well. Like you've got to take care of your end of the bargain. His stats are incredible, but I don't know. I think it's a good point. Like there's certainly talent there and how we sort of the blame is interesting with Joe Burrow. Well, sacks aren't just a, they're not just a quarterback. They're not just an offensive line stat, right?

If you've watched Caleb Williams play in his rookie year, you'd know that the, the offensive line was not the only problem in Chicago. It's just how long the quarterback is holding on to the ball. And Joe Burrow can have that issue at times as well. But a couple of things on this. And yes, I'm 100% in line with Mike saying that Joe Burrow is headed the way of Dan Marino, early Super Bowl appearance in his career. And then you wonder what's going to happen after that. A bunch of playoff appearances with not a ton of success. I think after that, Marino went to a couple of AFC championships. But obviously, is the greatest quarterback without a Super Bowl ring, if not in that conversation.

Oh, pretty great. He's got to be, right? He's that guy, right? So Burrow is heading in that direction with the way the Bengals are run as a team and the way his early career is playing out. He's got, you're not wrong, Elon. He's got some of the best offensive talents around him. He's got the best receiver duo, arguably, in the NFL with T. Higgins. And Jamar Chase. They had Joe Mixen a few years ago as well.

And a great Canadian back in Chase Brown now. And Mitchell Tinsley was making crazy catches yesterday. I don't know who this guy is, but it looks like another gem that the Bengals have uncovered. But the O-line's not good enough. The defense isn't good enough. When you lose, they lost three games last year. They were 500 in games where they put up 30 plus points last year. It's not ideal.

That's not on the quarterback. Oh. You know? So that, to me, is where the conversation goes with Joe Burrow. And the second part of this is, how many times have Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson beaten Patrick Mahomes in the playoffs? Zero. Yeah, and you know every... And how many times is Joe Burrow beating Patrick Mahomes?

He's actually beating him in the playoffs. The team has scored 30 plus points and they've lost them. That's not Josh Allen's fault. That's not triggered you on. We don't need to bring Josh Allen slander into this. I use my own argument against myself. That's right. Don't bring Josh Allen into this.

But the point is, like, if you want to use the winning argument against Joe Burrow that it's got to be on him, you know, I look at other parts. And all of these elite quarterbacks, to Elon's point, it's not necessarily Allen's fault that they haven't gotten past the chiefs. It's not Burroughs fault that the Bengals missed the playoffs last year. As we talked about with Frank Schwab yesterday, he had arguably the best season of any quarterback to not have made the playoffs. That's Mike Sando piece where he tears the quarterbacks. Joe Burrow, as polled by league executives, coaches, and players,

was tied with Patrick Mahomes as the best quarterback in all of football. I think that that stands for something, and it really is telling that he could be squandered if the Bengals don't figure the same. Now, Jay texts in, as long as Mahomes plays in the AFC, Burrow, Jackson, and Allen are going to be in this conversation. Is that true, though?

Like, doesn't this feel like the year the, the chiefs lose their aura of inevitability? I mean, I was going back through it this morning. You look at the actual, we all, like, kind of remember, oh, man, they won so many close games last year. The actual record of how it went down is insane. They had some real horseshoes up there. Oh, my goodness. They win 12-1 score games. Yeah.

Some of the games and some of the way it had, it wasn't just like, oh, they beat this team by a touchdown and that's a one score game. It was like blocked field goals and penalties and it was just insane how they were able to win those games. Well and Mahomes hasn't been, look, he's still great. He's still incredible. He is easily, you know, if there's

one guy in the league that I want on my team to win a playoff game, it is still Mahomes right now. But he's not the undoubted best quarterback in the league anymore. Well, if you're going as based on stats, based on eye test, of course, it's

Patrick Mahomes, but based on stats, Lamar, Burrow, and Allen roll better. Based on stats, he hasn't been a top five quarterback for two straight seasons now. I just think, though, I look at it. You go back to his 40 plus touchdown season. That's the last time he was far and away, the best quarterback in the NFL from a statistic standpoint. I just look at it. I look at it more, though, as about the chiefs than about Mahomes, right? And it's, you know, we all saw what Travis Kelsey looked like, you know, a shadow of himself really what he could do at his prime. And then just the weapons around him are just not very good. And then, you look at the way they're running their offense it's they can't take deep shots down the

field so it's a lot of dink and dunk and it almost still makes the plays he needs to make i i i just think it's more about where the chiefs are as a team than it is about my homes it almost feels like late career uh brady and new england where he just doesn't have enough offensive weapons the offense is uh not as dynamic as explosive as it can be with the talent of their quarterback but I wonder if does that get tiring for Mahomes who wants to be known as one of the greats of all time who wants to be able to put up the numbers it doesn't matter as long as they're winning as long as they are an AFC contender and as long as they are a Super Bowl contender but if that dries up and Mahomes still isn't putting up numbers I think that conversation changes

down the line I want to throw one more squandered former AFC quarterback for you guys Andrew Luck he only played six seasons yeah had the worst offensive line almost every season he played. He had to retire because his shoulder was so messed up because he was getting sacked 41 times a year. He was a pro bowler, four of those six seasons, offensive rookie there, and one comeback player of the year in his last season in the NFL. Yeah, that was a good one. We talked about the Barry Sanders and Calvin Johnson retirements, right? And of course, shock retirement from Andrew Luck as well at a very young age. And it's a good show, right? Because it wasn't just that he decided to walk away.

It was the offensive line got him so beaten up. He was like, this sucks. I'm out of here. Well, yeah, there was actually a recent piece because he's joined Stanford's staff as a coach now so he's coming back into football but in the piece he talks about just how much the love of football got knocked out of him for how things were going in Indianapolis. Not what you want to do for your franchise quarterback.

Phenom prospects coming out of college, Andrew Luck. Final one, this one on the Dunbar Lumber text message inbox, back to hockey, Pavl Burray. Made a cup final. I don't know though Yeah I made a cup final And then he got injured a lot too He asked out

And then those Florida teams were just like Pavel Beret Hanging out at Center Ice Yeah I don't know And not really caring to win games And having Burray score The most goals he possibly could

Hey his knees heard You have to hang out as Center That's right He could skate all the way back Yeah He had that condition Where he had so many breakaways You know

Wow He had that condition Where they only worked in the offensive zone It was like a rare physical condition All right We can get into that conversation later on in the show as well. All-time squandered athletes. Keep sending your text in 650, 650. The BC Lions, it's another season of hard hits, heated rivalries, and nonstop entertainment for tickets.

Visit BCLions.com and get ready to roar as one. We'll chat with Richard Zokel next. Look ahead to the tour championship in the PGA, maybe the Ryder Cup as well here on Halford and Brough, Sportsnet, 650.