Halford & Brough in the Morning - Why Was EP40 Left Off Of Recent Canucks Marketing?

Episode Date: June 4, 2025

In hour two, Mike & Jason talk the latest hockey rumours with NHL insider Frank Seravalli (1:17), plus they speak with The Athletic Buffalo's Matthew Fairburn (26:26) about what could be a very busy off-season for the Sabres. This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

Music Frank! Sarah Valley? Frank! Frank! 702 on a Wednesday. Happy Wednesday everybody. Halford Brough, Sportsnet 650. Frank! Halford Brough for the morning is brought to you by Sands & Associates, BC's first and trusted choice for debt help with over 3,000 five star reviews. Visit them online at Sands-trustee.com. We are now in hour two of the program.

Frank Saravalli from Daily Face Off is going to join us in just a moment here to kick off hour two. He has a presentation of angry otter liquor. Hour two of this program is brought to you by Jason Hominuk and Jason Da Morgage. If you love giving the banks more of your money, then don't let Jason shop around to find the perfect mortgage for you. Visit him online at JasonDaMorgage. We are coming to you live from the Kintex studio Kintec footwear and orthotics working together with you in step to the phone lines We go the power West industries hotline Frank Sarah Valley joins us now in the Haliford and Bref show on sports net 650 good

Morning, Frank. How are you? Pretty good. Good morning boys. How you doing? We're well. I got a lot going on here we will get into some Stanley Cup finals talking a little bit, but more pressingly for our Vancouver audience and more interesting, I think from a league wide perspective, looming free agency, Daily Face Off has its top 50 NHL free agents up and on the internet now. And there's an interesting dynamic here in that this thing might need some revisions

from time to time, because guys are already coming off the board. We saw Yanny Gord off the board now that he's resigned in Tampa Bay. I checked and Derek Foreboard did not quite make the top 50 but he's now off the board having resigned with the Vancouver Canucks. My first question Frank is you know big picture here with the cap going up and all these teams having dollars to spend do you think there might be more of a push from teams to keep their guys from going to free agency

with all that money rather than waiting to go shopping on July 1? Well, there always is, right? There's always a way bigger push to keep your guys as opposed to lose them on the market for nothing. That said, I think the other part of it, the push and pull is that think about what agents are thinking about right now.

They've got their calculators out. They're trying to adjust their ask for what they believe the new cap environment is. And now that we know what it is for the next two seasons beyond this one, kind of an unprecedented situation. We've never had that before in the salary cap era where you've got a document that says from the league and the players association, here's what the cap's going to be. You don't have to guess. You can know what percentage of cap is and what your deal will look like and more importantly, how to adjust your ask up so that your player isn't left behind and underpaid. Brock Besser comes in at number three on the list and it looks like you got him in around six years at eight and a half million.

Is he one of those guys you could foresee in that aforementioned scenario where you get to market and the ask starts going up because there could be a dearth of goal scoring wingers available in free agency? Well, I think that number adjusts for that already, that eight and a half. I think some of it with Brock is going to come down to fit and where he wants to play that there may be a situation where he might be willing to take slightly less to go there for comfort. And I also have never really gotten the sense that he's after every last dollar out there. I think more so that the conversation has been centered

around what's reasonable and fair and I think to go back to the first part of your question about whether or not these teams can hang on to players before they get to market I don't think they ever got to a situation with the Canucks based on term where they felt like they were going to get close to a market value deal and because of that that's why he's on the move or very likely to be. Um, I'm really curious about the Dallas stars right now.

I'm curious about what they're going to do if anything with Pete DeBoer and when the Knicks fired Thibodeaux, I was like, Oh God, I wonder if the, I wonder if the stars are watching that and wondering if they should do the same with Pete DeBoer. But I'm also wondering about some of their free agents, Matt Duchesne, number six on your board, 34 years old, the projection is a

contract of three by 7.2. Do you think he's more likely to stay in Dallas or go somewhere else? Well, based on their current situation and the available cap dollars, I think logic would dictate that right now he's more likely to go. He's looking for some security for a multi year deal. He's played the last two on one year deals and has absolutely knocked it out of the park both years. So obviously,

it's been a good fit for him. 82 point season, and has absolutely knocked it out of the park both years. So obviously it's been a good fit for him. 82 point season and has had some playoff success falling short of the ultimate goal. But if you're him, you go, okay, I've done you guys a favor now. First year I was on a buyout. I wanted to land here. Second year I did you a favor resigning on the cheap. Now it's time to get paid something reasonable and that part I just don't know that as constructed the Dallas Stars even have the ability to offer what are they doing with their captain Jamie Ben are they moving out another piece on their roster in order to try and make room I'd imagine they they're probably gonna be considering a buyout of Matt Dumba

is something else in the works to try and free up space because other than that, they just simply can't afford it. What exactly is going on in Dallas right now? Because we mentioned this on yesterday's show, I had a big time main character energy there. It was, you know, Merrick wrote about it for you guys while potentially trading Jason Robertson. Kevin Weeks had that tweet of the American Airlines Center with the big eyeball emoji. All these different outlets were, you mentioned Jamie Ben, like Tim Kalashov from the Dallas Morning News wrote about it. If you're gonna bring back Ben, it shouldn't be

as captain. It just felt like there's something going on there, not to mention the Peter DeBoer drama with Jake O'Connor and then in the aftermath, it just feels like there's a lot of unrest and a lot of uncertainty for one of the final four teams in the NHL this season, the conference finalist. Well, it's been one of the final four teams for each of the last three years, right? Like they're a team that's been in the mix that has, you know, been very successful, has had opportunities and chances, even going back to the bubble,

being a Stanley Cup final team has gotten really close. But here's the thing, when you get close and repeatedly fall short, I think it's also no different than in Toronto, which wasn't nearly as close, you ask questions, you begin to look at things a little bit differently. Do we have the right mix? Is this the right coach?

Should we change things up? That's part of what the Dallas Stars were sifting through yesterday. I understand that for the first time since those comments, I believe Jay Gottinger, Jim Nill, and Pete DeBoer got together yesterday for a meeting. I don't know exactly how it went, but I think this was the beginning of unpacking what was a really disappointing finish.

And there's zero question that Pete DeBoer runs hot. I mean, to me, it wasn't even just the comments that he made about Ottinger and how he kind of doubled down on them and how he managed the situation. But it was also the commentary heading into the game itself, their final game of the season. In the morning skate, he said, coaches can't put the puck in the net. Like what an absolute indictment of the players on your team, you telling everyone how much they're falling short. You could see how if you coupled those two things together in the last 24 to 48 hours of their season, that there would be a lot of unrest or certainly some trust and credibility

lost within that locker room that's going to have to have Jim Neill ask the question, is this still the right guy to lead this team? And oh, by the way, how come Pete DeBoer has had really good teams that never gotten over the hump? I mean, we asked that question about Paul Maurice last year. And so sometimes it only takes one to break through and you're viewed in an entirely different prism. But today, those are the questions that they're asking in Dallas. Frank, with all the aggressive teams

and all the cap space out there, do you think it's possible that a guy like Mitch Marner sees his negotiating rights traded before July 1st? I do. But the only way I would likely see that happen is if there was something legitimate in there for the Toronto Maple Leafs that makes it worth their while. And the only way you could probably get there is if they do a sign and then trade with the

eight-year deal to make it worth that other team's while to go out and spend the capital to not just jump the market, but also be able to potentially a little bit suppress the AAV of the deal. Yeah, I just wonder, I'm thinking about the Canucks right now and Jim Rutherford said, at the end of season press series, if we have the cap space, then we'll try and be active in free agency. I took that as they're going to do a lot of their moves before July 1st, because you know, when it comes to a player like Mitch Marner,

if you're waiting until July 1st to find out if you get him, if you don't get him, that can sometimes put you in a pretty tough spot. And I don't know if there's even as like a close to plan B, if your plan is to sign Mitch Marner. Do you know what I mean by that? Yes, I do. But you would have to think that that would be the

first item, the first domino to fall because if not, nothing else works. Exactly. What, what do you think about the idea of Marner to Vegas? I think that makes a ton of sense. I think they're a team that's always chased the shiny toy. I think that they were a team that had followed the Marner situation and Ransom situation very closely. I think they're a team that has had a ton of playoff success and is wondering if we drop Mitch Marner

into this really competitive group. Do they just scoop them up and take them along with the team? Do they just take them along with the team? Do they just take them along with the team? They're a team that has had a ton of playoff success and is wondering if we drop Mitch Marner into this really competitive group. Do they just scoop him up and take him along for the ride and he finds a way to break through? And I think they also look at some of the other players on their roster and wonder if he's a great fit. So they don't have a ton of cap space that they never do. But I think they're one of those teams that might be willing to reshuffle the deck in order to make it happen. And by the way, since you mentioned the Canucks and their offseason plans, I probably should

mention that it did not go unnoticed in circles, league circles yesterday, the general manager asking me specifically, hey, do you know why the Canucks didn't put Pedersen on that infographic that they sent out? He's the highest paid player on the team. So they're noticing that it certainly was a topic of conversation yesterday. Do you think the time spent between the Can that give people a chance to be like, hmm, maybe we can turn them around. Because when he's playing during the season and we talked about his performance at the four nations in front of the whole hockey world, which wasn't very good. You could probably sit there and go like, no, I don't want to add this guy to my team.

But as you get into an off season, what I've noticed, and this is totally anecdotal, is there's a lot of fans from teams like, whether it's Buffalo or Philly going like, I want my general manager to go out and get Elias Pedersen. And I'm wondering if that can happen sometimes to general managers as well. And I'm wondering if that can happen sometimes to general managers as well. I don't know if they're reacting to some of that increased conversation. I think more so when you get to this time of

the year, and really it would have started in mid to late April as everyone else is still playing and you've got all this time to figure out what's next way before the combine, before the world, before anything else I think you have these long sort of brainstorm think tank sessions of okay obviously we're a ways away we didn't make the playoffs we've got a ton of work to do to figure it out let's just throw stuff against the wall and I do think that that's part of

those the germination of those discussions then becomes, well, what happens if we did pursue that? What would that look like? And a lot of the conversations, believe it or not, are really similar to the ones that we have on the air or ones that you'd have with your buddies sitting at the wood at a bar, that's what they do in these front offices. Like they will sit on a couch and literally on a whiteboard write down 50 names and try and figure out, hey what makes sense here and is this a viable possibility? And that's how it kind of begins to come together. And I think when you consider on the whole a lot of different things that Pedersen brings,

I know that there's a few teams out there that think they can be the team that gets him back on track. Get him out of Vancouver, get him to a potentially more quiet place, get him with our players and our staff and our training group. And we'll turn this guy around in half a season. So that was actually going to be my next question. What do people say about Pedersen? People outside of Vancouver. Like when you have a conversation with them, are they asking you questions?

Like, what do you think happened there? Because even in Vancouver, we're kind of like, what happened here? And we're still not a hundred percent sure, although some people have some theories. Well, I think they see a guy who's beaten down. I think they see a guy who has had his confidence shaken, who for his entire career up until the last 18 months,

everything for the most part has probably come pretty easy to him because of his immense talent and gifts. And they see a guy who's been challenged and who has dealt with various kind of tough situations, whether it's been the ongoing spat with Miller, whether it was the tendonitis that he claims set him back that the team believes didn't really. Whatever the situation, he's hit a wall, he's hit a roadblock here. And they think that there's that immense talent can come out again and show itself but that he's got to put in the work to do it and I don't I don't think it's fair to say that his work ethic has been questioned but I do think it's fair that the Canucks have basically sent out signals questioning that that have left other teams wondering, does he have the wherewithal to actually do it? We're speaking to Frank Sarah Valley from daily face-off here on the health and

abrupt show on sports net six, if you know Frank, there is reporting out there that it feels like more and more of that. There's maybe one guy who's going to ultimately decide whether this thing comes to fruition or not. And that's Jim Rutherford. We were playing audio from earlier in the week where it was suggested that Rutherford was the one that pushed the extension over the line for Leas Pederson in Vancouver. And ultimately if he is to be dealt, uh, he'll be the one that gives it the go ahead.

I'm curious to know if you're hearing the same sort of things with regards to whether Pederson stays or goes, cause ultimately the question is going to be answered in one of two ways. Do you trade away the problem or do you try and solve the problem internally? I'm just wondering if it ultimately comes down to the president of hockey ops to make that decision. Of course it comes down to the president of hockey ops.

Who else would it come down to? The general manager. Well, who did the general manager report to? That's a great question. I don't know. In the time that the two have been in Vancouver, it is flip flop back and forth between who does the public speaking, who's the front and the facing part of the executive, who's doing what role.

I can stop you right there. Don't confuse the public facing with what's happening behind the scenes. Okay. Clear it up for me. Without a shadow of a doubt, Jim Rutherford is making all of the hockey operations decisions with input from Patrick Alveen and the staff. What did you hear about, did you hear anything similar about Rutherford being the one who pushed the extension and the way it

was put by Elliott Freeman was that not everyone in the organization was so sure about it. I hadn't heard that. Um, and not obviously not saying it's wrong. I, we all talk to different people, so depends where you get your information from. I, we all talk to different people. So depends where you get your information from. I can only take you back to, and, and as the guy who broke the signing from the

people that I was talking to at that moment in time, they were over the moon with how that worked out. They felt like the AAV that they got him at relative to all the things that we talked about in the very beginning of our conversation, the cap increasing, the way the deal was structured, they thought for sure it was going to come in a lot higher than that and they thought that they were in a great spot where they landed. And so I think everything that I had heard toward the end of it was that for all the consternation and the back and forth that had gone on in between, that when it was done and signed,

they felt like they were in a great place. I do want to ask one final thing about upcoming first round picks of the draft. The Canucks obviously have them, but it's not in that top five. And I know there's been some chatter recently with the Islanders holding it one and it's not in that top five. And I know there's been some chatter recently with the Islanders holding at one and some other teams in that top five, I think specifically Utah, about teams potentially moving off of picks, either trying to trade down or trying to move

the pick entirely to get help. Now, what are you hearing about the top of the board within that top five teams potentially moving off of picks? I think for the first time in a long time, that's a very real possibility. And to be fair, there have been other top five picks in recent years that have been offered, but some of them have been very specific based on that moment in time and how the board fell.

This time around, I think there's a number of teams in that top five. I would look at Utah, I would look at Chicago, I would even look at San Jose and say that they're in spots to do something interesting. They're wondering if they can get their hands on an older, more established player that can help them sooner. And it's not necessarily to speed up the process,

but with where Utah is, they don't need another guy that's going to start impacting their team in three years. Right. They want to make the playoffs now. And they've got a really good team and they've got tons of picks and prospects. It's not to say they won't pick there. It's just that they're open to the idea of doing something different. Frank, this was great, man. Lots of information to chew on today. Thanks a lot for doing this. We appreciate it. Enjoy game one of the Stanley Cup final. We'll this was great, man. Lots of information to chew on today. Thanks a lot for doing this. We appreciate it.

Enjoy game one of the Stanley Cup final. We'll do this again next week. Thanks guys, see ya. Yeah, thank you. That's Frank Ceravalli from Daily Face Off here on the Halford & Brough show on Sportsnet 650. A presentation of anger, anger, liquor, I remind you. I did want to ask about the hierarchy

with regards to the president of hockey ops and the general manager and banker role. I mean, it's always been an interesting dynamic to me. Uh, the dynamic of public speaking has been interesting, but I don't think that it's ever been a question that Rutherford's in charge. Um, although, you know, there was the notion that maybe as Patrick Alveen grows into the role, he

has more input, but until Jim Rutherford leaves the organization, and as long as he's got the title of president of Hockey Ops, he's the top dog. Yeah, just- And he's gonna be making all the big decisions. Yeah, I don't think it was so much, I don't think the question was so much geared towards is the president the president?

Is the general, like the higher, like everyone understands that title-wise, there's a hierarchy there But I mean correct me if I'm wrong There was a shift midway through the dynamic where it certainly seemed like Patrick Alveen was more upfront front-facing in charge and responsible for the day to day which is kind of the understanding of

General managing in the NHL like there's the president that deals with a lot of bigger picture issues, including like a practice facility, for example, right? And the general manager more does the day to day, like we're going to paper some guys. Well, that's why Patrick was talking to the media all the time because Jim was like, I got to get this practice facility done. Yeah. And now like 20,000 square feet. See, the interesting dynamic here is that the presidential role in a lot

of different organizations is oftentimes a buffer between ownership and the general manager, which they don't have in a place like Buffalo, for example. We're going to talk to Matthew Fairburn in a minute. Right.

And we'll talk about a dynamic where Terry Pugula and the general manager, Kevin Adams, have a direct line of conversation with one another. Right. That's the there's no one in between. There's no one to parse and filter things. It can work both ways. It can be advantageous for your general manager to get direct feedback from his boss. But sometimes you don't necessarily want your boss to be in the room with you.

You want someone to have that like a layer between the two, right? And a lot of different NHL organizations, that's the president of hockey ops. Here, it's a, and this isn't to say it's a good dynamic, it's a bad dynamic, it works or it doesn't work, because I think Alvin and Rutherford together have done some good things in Vancouver. There's also been some misses. But right now, the Pedersen contract extension

is the biggest miss this organization has had since these two have taken over. And people, and I think rightly so, are saying who ultimately was the driving force behind this? Who is the one that got Pedersen to the table and got him to sign that extension and in our conversations with it, maybe strong arm him to get there?

And people wanna know that because it is the biggest singular issue with this team now and moving forward. And once July one hits that contract becomes even more ironclad because then he decides where he wants to go if it's a trade. So that dynamic is always going to be present. It's just, it's very interesting now in the course of conversations over the last little bit

that we're getting down to the nitty gritty of who ultimately decide to sign Elias Pedersen to that massive extension and how's it going to play out moving forward. Okay, we are up against it for time. I did mention that Matthew Fairburn is going to join us next on the Haliford and Bref Show on Sportsnet 650. He is a Buffalo Sabres reporter for the Athletic.

He's got an article out as we were talking about how did Kevin Adams earn Terry Pugula's trust and how has he kept it despite losing and not making the playoffs and keeping this playoff drought streak alive. We'll talk to Matthew Fairburn coming up next on the Halford and Bref Show on Sportsnet 650. Hey, it's Jamie Dodd.

And Thomas Strance. Get your daily dose of Canucks talk with us weekdays from 12 to two on Sportsnet 650. Or catch up on demand through your favorite podcast app. ["Sportsnet 650"] 7.31 on a Wednesday. It's a Eurod Wednesday here on the Haliford and Bref show on Sportsnet 650. Doesn't get much more Euro Dance than that. You were right. Laddy got in my ear during the break and he said, there's a huge drop coming you were right Halpern brother the morning is brought to you by fans and associates

Consumer proposal reduces your debt by up to 80% with no more interest you it's interesting how We all have there it is there there again. We're like that's lasers. Lasers don't have a sound. Yeah, they do But they do. Have you seen Star Wars? It's light. No, they have a sound. Pew pew pew. Oh, okay. Moving at the speed of light. Yeah. And the speed of sound. Which faster? Do we know this? Does science have an answer? I doubt it Yeah, I think it's sound. Pretty sure it's sound. Who's to say? How about the budget for this show bringing the lasers? By the way, I know it's sound pretty sure it's sound is to say how about the budget for the show bringing the lasers Probably I know we got no but I just gotta say I just got to pat myself on the back I just posted the most incredible Canucks video on this ports and six you chose chaos this morning

Yeah, good for you. I really look forward to the responses to this for those. It's Frank's fault. He started it No, he didn't we asked him the questions. We absolutely started For those that say we focus too much on alias peters. We went a full week Like maybe even like 10 days without doing a single Ep 40 related video that streak ends today. Check us out on X Commonly known as Twitter sports net 650. It's up there for your viewing pleasure We've turned off the comments you are listening to the hell for the brush on sports net 650 pleasure. We've turned off the comments. You are listening to the Haliford and Bref Show on Sportsnet 650. Haliford and Bref of the morning hour 2 is brought to you by

Jason Hominock at Jason.mortgage. If you love paying too much for your mortgage then don't let Jason shop around to find the perfect mortgage for you. Visit him online at Jason.mortgage. Let's go now to the Power West Industries hotline. Our next guest is a Buffalo Sabres reporter for the athletic Matthew Fairburn here on the Haliford and Brough show on Sportsnet 650. Good morning Matthew, how are you? I'm doing well, how are you guys? We're good, thanks for taking the time to do this.

The timing of this interview is perfect. We've just spent a considerable amount of time talking about the Vancouver Canucks front office, the president of hockey ops, Jim Rutherford, the general manager, Patrick Alveen, and you wrote about the Buffalo Sabres front office recently in a new article in the athletic titled How did Kevin Adams earn Terry Pagoulas trust and how has he kept it? You talked to a lot of different people in trying to answer this question, Matthew. Were you able to find adequate answers as to how Adams

earn Pagoulas trust and how he's kept it? Yeah, I think so. I think it's something that, you know, you have to go back really far to find kind of the kernel of the beginning of this relationship and how it built slowly over time into what I would consider a one of one situation in the NHL, at least in the NHL. I don't know about pro sports

entirely, but it might even be pretty close in that regard. And in terms of Kevin Adams developing this relationship with Pugula all the way back in 2011 when Pugula bought the team, serving in various roles, not directly involved in hockey operations for a while. He was running the practice rank. He was running the Junior Savers youth team. He spends about nine months as the, you know, makes a pretty big leap to vice president of business administration and then becomes the general manager nine months later in the middle of a pandemic. There's nobody in the league that has this relative lack of experience in terms of relevant hockey

operations duties. And then on top of that, he's now kept this job for five years. He will have it for a sixth season without making the playoffs. It is just one of the most, I mean, it is a unique situation across the league in terms of the dynamic between owner and GM and the level of faith he's gotten without having much of a track record at all before he got this job. So what is it that Pagula likes about the guy? He can trust him. He listens to him.

He is, look, Kevin Adams and all the people I talked to, a lot of people had some choice things to say, but almost all of them qualified it by saying Kevin Adams is a nice guy. And there's something to that, like played that game pretty well in terms of being a guy that they could trust, being a guy that they thought, you know, early on, Terry Pagula thought he saw some upside in Kevin Adams. And this is when he was an assistant coach for the Sabres all the way back in 2011. 2013, he gets fired as part of Lindy Ruff's staff. And Terry Pagula sees this upside and begins grooming him for a job, not sure what job,

but a job higher up in the organization, has him run the Academy of Hockey. I think there's a direct line to be drawn between the fact that Terry Pagula has a fascination with the development of athletes at a high level. His daughter, Jessie Pagula, is a high level tennis player. He loves sitting in on scouting meetings with the Bills, his NFL team, he loves doing that in hockey. And Kevin Adams' role through all these years

was, you know, first sort of development with the Sabres briefly, and then the Academy of Hockey was this youth development program that was supposed to get Buffalo area kids ready for the next level of hockey, whether that was college or pro. And I think that was where their bond started. And then there's just the fact that this is a guy that will listen to him. This is a guy that is respectful, a guy that is communicative. And Terry Pagula soured on the leadership style, these brash guys that maybe are more blunt, that might stand up to him more, that might push back, that might kind of cut him out of the process and say, you need to let me do this. Adams

is happy to have daily communication, happy to rope him in on decisions, run things by him. And I think that is really, if you had to boil it down to one thing why Terry Pagula likes him, it goes back to what he said when he fired Jason Botterill. He said he didn't feel like they were being hurt and they didn't run a search for a general manager at the time. They didn't have any other candidates. They didn't even vet any other candidates. The decision to fire Botterill and hire Adams were made simultaneously. And considering Adams' lack of experience, it is kind of bizarre to think about in hindsight. What does the fan base think of all this?

They're not happy, that's for sure. I mean, it's funny because Kevin Adams, like I said, a lot of people, you know, he's been in this community a long time. He's from Western New York and a good member of the community. Like guys, you know, people like Kevin Adams. But what has happened over the last couple of years is when you're in a job like this one, being a nice guy is not really enough. And I mean, you could go to opening night this year when they're introducing everybody, Kevin Adams gets introduced to loud boos. And this was before they'd even played a game this season. And then he had the press conference in December where he's talking about palm

trees and taxes. And after that, it spiraled out of control. I mean, fans are bringing palm trees to the games. They're chanting for Adams to be fired. They're chanting for Pagula to sell the team. I think a lot of what we outlined in the story this week sort of confirmed the worst fears that people have about this dynamic, about this relationship and about the situation the team is in and how they get out of it. Because while they've changed some things around the edges, the two people at the top of this organization are still Adams and Pagula. And I think, you know, Pagula's involvement is part of what's gotten them to this point. I mean, they've missed the playoffs more.

They've missed the playoffs in every full season that Pagula has owned the team. And they've missed the playoffs more since he's owned them than they did in the entire history of the franchise before he owned them. So it is, it starts at the top and there's a definite major frustration in this fan base. Um, it's a, it's a well-sourced article, Matthew, and it's a good read as well. And you said that, uh, you write one source

described the situation in 2021 by saying there was no plan. Um, that's a few years ago now. Is there a plan now? in 2021 by saying there was no plan. That's a few years ago now. Is there a plan now? And if there is, what is the plan? Yeah, I think that's the hard thing to pin down. If I had a big picture, you know, in a story like this one,

we really had to focus kind of on a few big things. And it could be, you could write a book about the dysfunction of the Sabres over the last 14 years. So drilling down on sort of the ins and outs of the last four years felt like it bogged the piece down a little bit. But if I could boil the criticism of Kevin Adams down to one thing, it is that, that there was no plan and that the plan and the messaging has changed quite a bit over the years. So you go back to when he took the job that first fall, they're talking about signing

Taylor Hall as the piece that will make them a Stanley Cup contender. And you think about how far out to lunch you have to be to think that Taylor Hall is going to get a team that hasn't made the playoffs in nine years to be a Stanley Cup contender. Taylor Hall on a one-year deal is going to be what pushes you over the edge when you haven't gotten to the playoffs in nine years. And then by the end of that season, Taylor Hall is getting traded for spare parts. They've gone on an 18 game winless streak. Ralph Krueger is fired and they're starting completely from scratch. And when I say, you know, when I quote that source as saying there

was no plan, everything was on the table. It wasn't as if they went into that summer and said, all right, we're definitely not trading this guy. We're definitely not trading this guy. They were just sort of almost, it felt like guessing about, you know, who was going to be the core, who wasn't going to be the core. And it's crazy to think that, you know, eight or nine months before that, they were talking about being a Stanley Cup contender. Then Eichel's gone, Reinhardt's gone, Allmarc's gone, Montour was already gone before that, Risto Leinen's gone, they're completely starting from scratch. So the plan became to an extent, find guys who want to be in Buffalo, build through the draft, develop your own talent, all of these things.

But the message after they got 91 points in 2022, 2023 was was the windows open, it's time to contend. And yet, that summer, they did hardly anything to the roster. They went backwards. They fired the coach before his extension kicked in. They hired Lindy Ruff, who was the coach all the way back when Kevin Adams got hired in his first job in the organization back in 2009. So what's the plan now? I mean, the plan should be for the first time under Kevin Adams to spend to the salary cap first and foremost to think that you can build a team that can push for legitimate playoff contention being as far under the cap as they have been, I think is the most misguided thing, but also supplementing, you know, you can't go into the season with the youngest roster in the NHL again. So that's what the plan should be, what the plan is.

I think it's going to depend on, they've got five RFAs and they have a significant piece in Alex Huck, who is entering the final season of his contract before becoming a UFA next summer. The plan might depend on who is committed to signing long-term and who isn't. And that might sort of steer them in the direction of who needs to be traded, how they rework this group, but they need to rework their blue line. And they need to, I think, add some competitiveness and some toughness upfront because they haven't been a good enough defensive team. And I think that starts with forwards and defense. I think it's a total five-man situation. So the plan, I'd say in Kevin Adams' case has been changing changing too much and I think he has been too Reactive instead of being proactive and maybe some of the additions

He's made to the front office will help him be a little bit more forward-thinking get out in front of some of these situations Can you imagine any trade with Vancouver that would involve Alex Tuck? I Could only imagine them trading Alex Tuck if he draws a line in the sand and makes it very clear that he is not going to sign. And that is certainly one of the possibilities as we enter the summer. Now I wonder if they would still ride it out. I mean, Alex Tuck is so vitally important to this team because when you talk about competitiveness and toughness and two-way play up front, he is all those things.

He has playoff experience, which a lot of guys in this locker room do not. He's also from, not far from, Buffalo, grew up a Sabres fan. This organization means something to him. Losing a heart and soul guy like that in this community and on this team would be a devastating blow. But again, it depends on him. If he really isn't interested in signing, then all of a sudden you have a decision to make. Do you let him play out that final year of his contract and try to convince him right up until next summer when he becomes a free agent? Or do

you get out in front of it and get what would probably be a significant haul in a trade? I think Vancouver and Buffalo make sense as trade partners just generally because both teams are in that position where they need to shake up their mix a little bit. And Tuck does have a Vancouver connection, his wife is from out that way. So certainly I don't think he'd be upset about that trade, but so much of it depends on the contract situation. And I don't think the Sabres are going to be in a position where they're interested in trading Tuck unless he ends up forcing their hand. Um, as there, is there a conversation about Ilyas Peterson in Buffalo or is that a kind of a side conversation that happens?

That definitely happened during the season. I think the trade for Josh Norris quieted some of that talk down because now they feel like they have swapped their center in Mill and Cousins for another center in Josh Norris, a guy that they think can potentially be their number one center if he stays healthy. Josh Norris, to my understanding, and you guys can correct me if I'm wrong, is somebody that I feel like was thrown around in Vancouver rumors at one point and so. Yeah, because he's Quinn Hughes' buddy. That was one of the main reasons and the center. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, if that's, it almost feels like if they were going to do Pedersen, it would have to

include Norris both from a salary perspective and for Vancouver's interest in getting a center back. But still a guy that I feel like should be on Buffalo's radar just because their options are somewhat limited. You know, they're not the team that goes out and gets the big prize in free agency. And there's a lot of guys that will have Buffalo on their no movement clause. So that narrows their list of possibilities and the path to

acquiring an elite potential, an elite talent like Pedersen. I know the production hasn't been there. There's not a lot of options available to acquiring those types of players. So still something that's sort of on the back burner for me entering the summer, something that's not by radar, but the Norris trade made it a little less front of mind. Definitely, as Jason mentioned, go check out the article. It's up at the Athletic now. How did Kevin Adams earn Terry Pugula's trust and how has he kept it? Great insight into the Buffalo Sabres front office and front offices are a hot topic today

Matthew thanks a lot for doing this today. We appreciate it. Enjoy the Stanley Cup final and everything is offseason We'll probably check back in as we get closer and closer to free agency Sounds great. I look forward to it. Thanks for having me guys. Yeah, thanks for coming on That's Matthew Fairburn Buffalo Sabres reporter for the athletic here on the Haliford and Bref show on sports net 650 You see how we've done it today everybody That's Matthew Fairburn, Buffalo Sabres reporter for the Athletic here on the Halford and Bref show on Sportsnet 650. You see how we've done it today everybody? Started off the show, if you haven't listened to hour one, download the podcast, played a bunch of audio

from Bill Zito, maybe regarded as the best general manager in hockey. Three Stanley Cup appearances in a row. He's got a couple Jim Gregory awards for GM of the Year in his pocket. Talking about him, then we focused on the Vancouver Canucks front office, then we focused on the Buffalo Sabres front office. I cannot tell you how many people texted in to the Dunbar Lumber text line when Matthew

was describing the relationship between Kevin Adams and Terry Bugula. Oh, what were they texting? They were like, that sounds like Jim Benning. Jim Benning was the general manager in Vancouver for a long time and the results weren't there. If you hear what's reported or what's said and you listen to it and you believe it, a lot of it was just based on the relationship that Benning had with the owner. You don't have all the information. We didn't have all the information. We didn't have all the information.

Ah, Jim. But we watched the team. Jim was a nice guy. You know, I don't know what you're insinuating at. He was a nice guy. You have to have a good relationship with your boss. It's very important and managing up is a big deal. Now there's always two sides to the coin.

Is it a good idea to have a good relationship with your boss? Yeah. But where do you draw the line in how that relationship is made? Is it just acquiescing every time to the boss and being like, that's a good idea, sir. Or do you have to push back once in a while?

And the owner of the Vancouver Canucks, Francesco Aquilini has since come out and said, I kept gym betting for too long. It's a mistake that was made. And it is difficult to fire people that you like. It's really easy to fire someone you don't like. You're like, I'm gonna enjoy this. And when the relationship breaks down,

it's easy to be like, all right, you're done. But if the relationship never actually breaks down, like you're still on good terms, but the results aren't happening, that's almost the toughest situation. Sure. I mean, to fire Botero Botero to be dead honest. I'd love to fire you, but I can't, you know, we get along. I do such good work here. Yeah, yeah,

we get unbelievable results. The show goes to air every day. Well, every day. When the station's working. Yeah, except those days with the transmitter breaks. But every other day we're here. No, look, when he talked about firing the previous GM and it was because that line in the sand that you were talking about, Botero drew the line in the sand. And that's great. He stood up for himself and said, I'm going to do what's right. I'm going to listen to Jason Botero and not Terry Pagula.

The issue was he got fired. So whatever he wanted to accomplish as a general manager, he wasn't able to because he was no longer the general manager. And this is probably the closest dynamic that a lot of the listeners are going to get, because every listener save a handful, has a superior and has a boss that they have to, you know, balance and straddle that line between. What did you say? Acquiescing?

That was the word you used. Right. Some will say kissing ass, but you know it's the same idea You got to do some of it Because if you if you're constantly constantly Putting up blockades and roadblocks and fighting your boss and the relationship sours More often than not it's easier to get rid of you than it is to try and salvage the relationship You gotta pick your battles man. It's a very tough, very tough landscape. Now, in Buffalo, the picture that Fairburn painted

was very much of a guy that, in Kevin Adams, that has survived and has gone up the corporate ladder as much as he has because of his friendly relationship with the owner. Now, that's great between the two of them. They've got a good working relationship, but it goes back to what you said earlier. The results aren't there.

And they haven't been. It's crazy to me that they've been out of the playoffs for as long as they have. And it doesn't really seem like the end of that playoff drought is in sight. This year wasn't it. No. They weren't even particularly close.

You know, there's a couple things that we do here in trying to compare situations and one of them is suffering fan bases. I mean, yesterday we talked, um, to a Colorado Rockies beat writer. Colorado Rockies are the worst team in baseball right now. They've been bad for a while. They haven't been to the playoffs for an awfully long time. They're a miserable franchise. And you know, you ask questions like, with all that losing, what kind of effect has it had on the brand? How does the fan base feel?

Is it angry? Does it cross over to apathy? Those are all real questions when you don't win all that often. And more importantly, you don't win all that often with a fan base that is desperate for winning. You know, there's other fan bases out there that have different priorities.

Like our buddy from the Rockies yesterday pointed out, he's like, attendance isn't terrible. Yeah, people still show up. Have a good time. They plan their summer vacation around going to see the Rockies, and then they check out a baseball game and they get a lot of revenue sharing from MLB. So everyone's just kind of like, okay, we're bad, but.

They're high as a kite? Yeah, we're bad, but it's not the end of the world. Literally and figuratively, because it's Denver. But it's not like that here, right? People. Everyone's high here. Well, they're high. Oh, okay. Sorry. I'm getting confused.

Yeah, but the losing grinds. And losing matters here. Yeah, it does, right? Yeah. It's a big deal. It's a Canadian market. It's one that's on the outside of the playoffs looking in this year. When a lot of other Canadian teams had good playoff runs,

including the Edmonton Oilers, who are now gonna start their second consecutive Stanley Cup final. So there's interesting dynamics everywhere. And when you look at a place like Buffalo, given the ties that Vancouver has to it, both in terms of when it broke into the NHL and the fact that we're the only two members of the sad club left, you do want to know what's going on over there.

They've got a practice rank though. It's pretty nice. I heard about it. Kevin Adams was responsible for it for a while. Yeah, they got it done. He was GM of the practice facility and now he's the GM of the team. It's an amazing thing. Okay. Two hours of the Halford and Bref show in the books. Hour three to come. We got a lot more to get into on the program. Coming up, Brandon Astle is gonna join the program. Play by play voice of the Abbotsford Canucks.

The Canucks lead two one in their Calder Cup Western Conference final. Game four goes tonight at the HEB Center in Texas. The Stars won game three. They'll look to win game four. So too will the Abbotsford Canucks. You can hear that game right here on Sportsnet 650 by the way. Begins at five o'clock. So Brandon Astle will join us next to set up game four of the Calder Cup Western Conference Final. You're listening to the Halferd and Brough Show on Sportsnet 650.