Halford & Brough in the Morning - Will Ovi Break Gretzky's Record This Season?

Episode Date: November 18, 2024

In hour two, Mike & Jason talk Week 11 highlights with Too Deep Zone NFL insider Mike Tanier (1:19), plus the boys discuss the top stories from around the NHL (27:00). This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Alan gonna step up in the pocket. Now he's gonna take it and run. And he's got the first down and more. 10, 5, and muscles his way

into the end zone for an unbelievable 26-yard touchdown run. Are you kidding me? 7.02 on a Monday. Happy Monday, everybody. Halford Brough, Sportsnet 650. Halford and Brough in the morning is brought to you by Vancouver Honda,

Vancouver's premier destination for Honda customers. They have a friendly, knowledgeable staff. They can help you with anything you're looking for, be it sales, financing, service, or parts. We are in Hour 2 of the program. Mike Tanney, our NFL insider from the 2 Deep Zones sub-stack, is going to

join us in just a moment here to kick off Hour 2. Hour 2 is brought to you by Jason Hominut from Jason.Mortgage. If you love giving the banks more of your money, then don't let Jason shop around to find the perfect mortgage for you. Visit him on the internet at Jason.Mortgage. We are coming to you live from the Kintec studio. Kintec, Canada's favorite orthotics provider,

powered by thousands of five-star Google reviews. So, Orfee, what are you waiting for? Kintec, to the phone lines we go. Mike Tanier joins us now on the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. Morning, Michael. How are you? I'm doing great. Do you want to hear the latest Seahawks playoff odds? I do.

They have, according to FTN Network, a 16.5% chance of making the playoffs. 16.5. That's not a, so you tell me there's a chance chance. That's a quarter-way decent chance. And shout out to the san francisco 49ers for letting it happen if it a matter of fact playing a big role in that 16.5 percent so i know you wrote about this uh already but i gotta start there because we just finished talking about the seahawks game and i said i love the geno smith touchdown run great story for him

you know a nice little bit of validation after some tough times over the last couple weeks. However, I felt like that game was more about San Francisco yet again shooting itself in the foot and finding a new way to lose as opposed to the Seahawks doing something great. Agree or disagree with my assessment? Yeah, I kind of agree. The Seahawks hurt the 49ers more than they helped themselves, or the 49ers hurt themselves more than the Seahawks helped themselves, something like that.

The 49ers defense really was playing an excellent game for, I guess, the first three quarters where the Seahawks are just settling for these long field goals. And, you know, the 49ers offense, I just don't know what to make of it, even with guys out, even with Kittle out, even with Iyok out. They still have McCaffrey. They still have Jennings, they still have Debo. They get to the 40-yard line, and they just stop.

They just take the rest of the afternoon off every time they get into scoring position, and they kept doing that over and over again, so they put themselves in a position where even though it looked like they were controlling the game to me in the first half, it's only 10-6, and then they're trailing, and then they're trying to hold off the Seahawks in that final drive.

The game should not have been that close to the San Francisco 49ers. Credit to the Seahawks playing tough defense themselves and finding a way to win at the end. You did write that the 49ers did not play down to a lesser opponent. They played laterally to a fellow middleweight. Have you basically written the 49ers out of the contender category in the NFC, or do you still think that there's a chance? They've written themselves out.

They are so mid. And, of course, they can still make the playoffs. They can still come away with the division, et cetera. But if you look at their profile, I'm looking for the quality win on their resume. I guess the Cowboys and the Jets are their quality wins, and they beat the Seahawks pretty handily, although I think the Seahawks were really banged up in that game as well. You know, they've got losses to all of these teams where you look at it and say,

that's just another NFL team. And the Seahawks, I mean, I would say that's just another team. The Cardinals, the Vikings were better than that, but, you know, they're not exactly the Bills. If you look at the 49ers' upcoming schedule, at Green Bay this week, at Buffalo, they go into Buffalo and play the way they did this week and the Bills play the way they did on Sunday afternoon.

49ers are done. They're done. And the 49ers have been playing like that week in and week out all year. So is it more like a personnel thing, like they're facing injuries, or is it more they're just not playing very well? I get that. Well, part of it is they do very poorly in the red zone and near the red zone, and I think you saw that yesterday. Sacks and penalties and mistakes and just not getting a big play

until Juwan Jennings had a couple big plays, but until then they don't get that. They don't stop the run very well. That's an issue. And I think we're starting to look at, you know, there are some guys with big names, and, you know, are they as good as all that? Is Debo Samuel as good as all that this year, or is he like a big-name guy who we keep waiting for

and keep expecting big things from? I look at that, some of the guys on defense, not Nick Bosa certainly, but like some of the other guys, is this really like a great player or is this a player with a bigger reputation? Maybe he's a year or two older, et cetera. I look at that up and down the 49ers roster and I think we might be just overrating them based on what they did last year and the year before, not looking at the age of the guys and not looking at the current performance of the guys. What did you think of the Bills-Chiefs game? 30-20 win for the Buffalo Bills. The Chiefs no longer undefeated. Chiefs no longer undefeated. I don't think many people were all that surprised by that result. And it was a fun game. I guess I looked at it and I went to write about it. And

it's like, we all know the story. You know, like, these are two phenomenal teams, and it was fun to watch. There was no last-second comeback. There was no, like, oh, my gosh, Patrick Mahomes did what at the end? You know, Allen makes his big play with seven minutes left to go, and then the Bills just kind of sit on it at the end. And it's like, yeah, Bills are great. Chiefs are great, but they were a little overrated as an undefeated team. We're going to see this again in January.

And frankly, I can't wait for it in January because that's when it's going to matter a lot more and there's going to be a lot more drama at stake in that game. I know the interview cliches are cliches, but Josh Allen kept saying going into this game, this is a Week 11 game on the schedule. It doesn't mean more because it's the Chiefs, and we're not going to make up for the past by beating the Chiefs this week. And then they asked him again afterwards, and he still said the same thing. He's like, this didn't feel any bigger than any of our other wins,

and we know that we need to do this in January. And I thought that was an important takeaway because, as you wrote about it, this was a big win, but it also was just a win for the Bills. And I think it was good that they categorized it as such because they obviously have bigger aspirations than beating Kansas City in Week 11. Exactly. And they've been through too much in the last, I guess, three or four years to think this was their season.

Or to think that this validates, you know, playoff mistakes of the past. And they're also a team that got hammered by the Ravens early in the season. They know that every single playoff tiebreaker matters because they want to have home games in Buffalo. No one wants to go into Arrowhead. So that's the bottom line from this. It's great to hear that Josh Allen is grounded. It's great that he's got that been there, done

that attitude. He should have that. The big thing the Buffalo Bills did was they increased their probability of home playoff games in the playoffs, and that could be a big deal for them come January. We're speaking to Mike Tanier, our Monday morning quarterback, a presentation of the Clayton Public House. Pre-game to post-game, the Clayton Public House is your home of football. Catch all the action on 15 screens and two giant projectors. Visit them online at theclaytonpub.com. You mentioned the Baltimore Ravens there, Mike.

So if the San Francisco 49ers are the NFC team most adept at shooting themselves in the foot, then the Ravens have to be that version in the AFC. It was funny because Lamar Jackson was asked after that loss to Pittsburgh on Sunday if it felt like the, essentially, if the Steelers had beat them or if they had beat themselves. And he was nodding along at the second part of the question, saying it just feels like we do this to ourselves all the time. I guess the question is, is the toughest opponent the Ravens are going to have the Ravens?

The toughest opponent the Ravens have are the Ravens. When they are not making mistakes, I think they're the best team in the AFC. Better than the Bills, better than the Ravens. But the mistakes, specifically the penalties, I don't have their penalty total up right now, but they had 12 penalties yesterday. They had the highest total in the league. Hold on, let me see if I can get it real quick. 80 penalties this year.

80 penalties for 683 yards. That's about eight penalties a game. That's the highest in the league. And you saw it yesterday when they would get like a 20-yard run, and then it would be negated for a penalty. They would get a big pass play, and then there would be an ineligible man downfield.

They would think they had the Steelers' defense stopped, and then a little penalty gives the Steelers a new life, a third down conversion on a penalty. That's their biggest problem. The turnovers come and go. Their pass defense really had a good game after a couple of weak games before that. I think they can come around.

They can't just keep giving the opponent free yards. They're giving the opponent dozens of free yards per week, and that's contributing to close losses like this one. The Chargers and the Bengals played a pretty entertaining game on Sunday night, and I think everyone was wondering who was going to screw it up because it was the Chargers and the Bengals. The Chargers came away with the win 34-27, and I note on their schedule they play Baltimore next Monday night. Have we really seen what the Chargers are all about? Because you look at their schedule and a lot of their wins

have come against bad teams, and a lot of their losses have come against good teams. I'm still not sure what to think of the Chargers is what I'm trying to tell you. Yeah, and it's hard because you're right. That was their best game of the year. What you saw last night was not your typical Chargers game. Their typical Chargers game is they're beating some team

like the Titans or they're going out there against a better team like the Cardinals and they've got their hands full completely and often they screw it up at the end. Both teams tried to screw that game up at the end. You know, the Bengals were missing field goals, handing the ball to the Chargers. Justin Herbert, who was late out in the first half,

was going three and out and punting it back. The Chargers are a playoff team because in the AFC, if you're pretty good, if you're kind of okay, you're a playoff team. If you hadn't surrendered, if you don't have this quarterback issue that's like a nationwide drama, you're a playoff team. And that's what the Chargers are right now. So I think they're middle of the pack. I don't think they're a threat to the Ravens,

unless the Ravens put another 15 penalties on the board. I don't think they're a threat to the Chiefs in the NFC West. But they're solid. Herbert's solid. The defense is playing pretty well. And they're really responding to Jim Harbaugh's system, and I think that makes a difference for them. The Chicago Bears lost to the Green Bay Packers for the 11th straight time.

That is tough when you're division rivals. Last time the Bears beat the Packers, I think it was all the way back in 2018. The Bears probably deserved better in that game. Another blocked field goal to end the game. The Packers come away with the win, kind of like the Chiefs did a few weeks ago. How has this season, I mean, we're more than halfway through the season now. How has the season gone for Caleb Williams? You know, it was looking like a lost season about a week ago

when they fired the coordinator. Like the potential is there to be like, you know, this is suddenly a prospect on the skids. And yesterday he played really well. Like you said, that game ends in a block kick. He drove them down for that kick. He was very efficient. He was checking the ball down on third down, fourth down, short and medium.

He was getting the ball to his backs and letting them make plays for him. He was running well. The offense looked a little bit more like commonsensical. It's like, well, let's get the ball to DJ Moore on a little flare pass and let him run around a little bit rather than trying to fire everything 25 yards downfield. So if Caleb Williams takes that game and develops on it and grows from it and keeps playing like that in the weeks to come, some of those wins will come. And if some of those wins will come, this is not a playoff team, but it's a rebuilding team. And then he can be in a position to grow next year.

I don't know what the future holds for the head coach. I don't think Matt Eberfuss is long in that locker room, but this is not a lost season for the Bears if Williams develops. And I think Williams is back on track developmentally after what I saw yesterday. We're speaking to Mike Tanier, our NFL insider from 2 Deep Zone here on the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. The Detroit Lions moved to 9-1 on the season yesterday with a narrow 52-6 victory over the Jacksonville Jaguars. It's the second time in four games that the Lions have scored

at least 52 points. Jason loves plus, minus, and point differential. Their point differential is plus 159, which is so far out in front of the second-place team, which is Buffalo, plus 106. My question is, are they trying to send a statement or a message by running up the score the way that they do on some of these weeks? And do they kind of get a pass because it's

not like a glory franchise it's the lions that have been so bad for so long that everyone's kind of like yeah no you guys can do this it's okay because you've been awful for such a long period of time yeah i mean if bill belichick did this uh we would be howling we would have led with it you know a couple years ago with the patriots but now it's like yeah they got they've got a lot of stuff to get off their chest in Detroit. So let them do it. I don't think it was that big a deal a couple of weeks ago against the Titans because it looked like they were more or less handing off off tackle and scoring.

Yep. And like their defense was, you know, when the defense, what are you going to do, not intercept the pass? Like that kind of thing. And now you've got the ball, you might as well go score. This one, it felt like the Jaguars were never going to put up any sort of fight after halftime. It was over.

And you kind of reach past the we're risking injury now. We're risking injury to some of our key players if we don't put Herndon Hooker in, which I think they did in the last two possessions or something like that. So, you know, live and learn. Dan Campbell's got to realize that this message statement type of thing isn't going to help the team in the long run. You want to get home field advantage to the playoffs. They're putting themselves in a great position to do that. One injury, one Jared Goff, Amon Ross, St. Brow injury when they've got 50 on the board, that's all it's going to take for him to go from coach of the year and the darling of all of us in the NFL

to somebody who has a lot of questions being asked about him. So I woke up this morning, I opened my social media, and I saw that Tommy DeVito was going to start for the New York Giants again. Daniel Jones is out, and I guess my question to you is, like, should we care about this? No. Tell us for breakfast. It sounds delicious. Tommy Cutler's for breakfast.

No, this is just rearranging the deck chairs as the Titanic sinks. And I don't think Brian Dable keeps his job. And I don't think Joe Sheen keeps his job. And I don't think Tommy DeVito is the future of anything except memes here in beautiful state of New Jersey where we love our paisans. Other than that, they're playing out the string in New York. And we're going to be seeing a regime change, quarterback change, everything, I guess, beginning of January.

Do you think Aaron Rodgers is going to be back next season? In the NFL, I mean. I'm afraid he will be. I mean, he kind of holds the cards in it. I mean, he doesn't look like he's having any fun. He doesn't sound like he's having any fun. But he's an inscrutable chap. And, like, if his ego is bruised, and if he talks

himself into thinking, well, you know, the problem this season was the head coach and the kickers and all these other things, he could come back. If he comes back, he does hold all the cards where he tells the Jets what the terms are. The Jets don't tell him what the terms are. And that could be a potential

nightmare for the Jets organization that is probably looking to the horizon and looking for a world where they get to start over after these two years of a nightmare. If you were to tell me three weeks ago who the Offensive Rookie of the Year was going to be, it would be a real quick answer. Jane Daniels next, go on to something else. But things have changed a little bit because what Bo Nix is doing in Denver at least demands

some attention he was awesome on the weekend and that blow win over the Falcons 307 yards passing in his last four games nine touchdown passes a rushing TD importantly just one interception and this has come when Daniels has hit the skids a little bit is it fair to say that Nix has maybe turned this into a conversation or is it still like Daniels is clearly the offensive rookie of the year? I still think it's Daniels' to lose. I just looked at the odds. Daniels is minus 400.

Bo Nix is plus 300. I could see throwing a little action at Bo Nix at plus 300. Yeah, just throwing it out there. I'm impressed by Nix's development. I was shocked when I was looking through my stats, and he leads the NFL in downfield passes right now. This was 15-plus yard passes.

This was a guy who threw nothing but screens for a month. That's the beginning of his career, and now he's firing the ball downfield. He's doing it with confidence and authority. I still look at what the Broncos do and say this is very much a defense-first effort, but Bo Nix able to get these wins because he's in control of the game because when you get the 20 points, you're probably going to win with that defense. I look at that

as the Broncos' situation, whereas James Daniels is the centerpiece of what the commanders are doing. And so unless Daniels really tails off, he's got to tail off more than, oh, I had a rough game against the Eagles on Thursday night. Unless he really tails off, it's going to be his rookie of the year award to lose. From very young quarterbacks to very old quarterbacks.

Not Aaron Rodgers, Matthew Stafford. I got such an appreciation for the guy. I think it's in part, especially since he's come to the NFC West and he's played against the Seahawks. He is such a talented guy. 16th year in the NFL, and he's played against the Seahawks. He is such a talented guy. 16th year in the NFL and he's weathered through this season where he lost Kup and Nakua and he

gets them back and then he has a performance like he does on the weekend with the four touchdown throws. He's such a quality quarterback. Is there enough there in LA with that Rams team and how weird the division is that they could make something out of this season in a positive way? I would feel so much more confident saying yes if Monday night hadn't happened.

If they hadn't gone out there and just looked very flat. I guess, you know, a Dolphins team that no one looks at and says, well, they're the unstoppable Dolphins. What are you going to do? That was a game that was there to be won. The opponent they beat on Sunday was not a particularly strong Patriots opponent, and they had a little trouble with them. So I don't think there's enough there. I'm pulling up the odds

right now. Earlier I said that the Seahawks are at 16.5%. Rams are at 18.5% to make the playoffs. The Rams have a little bit of an easier schedule ahead. They can still play the Niners and possibly get a sweep there. So the Rams are not out of it. I just don't think they're strong enough. Rams are not out of it. I just don't

think they're strong enough. They're not strong enough on defense. I don't think they're strong enough on the offensive line. And the Stafford, Puka, Cooper, Triumphant isn't quite going to pull them over the finish line this time. What are the odds for the other two NFC West teams? Because the Seahawks play Arizona in two of their next three weeks. They host them next week, and then they go to New York to play the Jets, and then they go to Arizona to play the Cardinals. So for the Seahawks, this is their season in the next few weeks. Absolutely, and do not look past the Cardinals. They are very tough this year.

They are not your Cardinals from last year or the year before. They have a 64.5% chance of making the playoffs. They have a win over the Niners. That's a big deal. They've got a win over the Rams. That's a big deal. They've got some other quality wins. The Niners are down at 26.4% chance of making the playoffs.

It's stunning. But, again, if you look at things like their conference record, their division record, I think they're 1-3 in the division right now, they have really positioned themselves in a bad place to make a run. Mike, with that, we'll let you go. I'm not even going to bother looking ahead to Monday Night Football because the Cowboys.

Poor Cowboys. Seven-point dogs at home on Monday night. I can't even remember the last time that would have happened. Anyway, we'll let you go. Thanks for doing this. As always, it was a lot of fun getting caught up. Enjoy whatever you can from tonight. Look forward more to Thursday Night Football on the weekend.

We'll do this again next Monday. Absolutely. Take care and enjoy your week. You too. Thanks. That's Mike Tanney, our NFL insider from the Too Deep Zone here on the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. Okay, so we've got an open segment on the other side, and then Kevin Woodley is going

to join us at 8 o'clock in Hour 3 to discuss the Vancouver Canucks and what happened over the weekend, a win over the Chicago Blackhawks, a loss to the Nashville Predators. So we will have time in the next segment to go into the Dunbar Lumber text line at 650-650 and read a few of your texts. Just a reminder, speaking of the text inbox, get your What We Learns in for 8.30, the second part of Hour 3. I think in this next segment, we will, yes, read some of your texts, but also go around the rest of the NHL because we've talked a lot of Canucks.

We haven't talked a lot of the rest of the NHL. What did everyone think of Ryan Reeves' hit on Darnell Nurse that earned Reeves a five-game suspension? Even Rick Talkett had some thoughts on that. Biggest suspension of the year so far. Alex Ovechkin. Alex Ovechkin. Breaking the record

this year. He's doing it, baby. He had a hat trick. He might break Gretzky's record before 2024 is done at this point. Yeah, it's crazy, man. I'm going to bring up a guy who plays for the Carolina Hurricanes right now. I know where you're going with this. Oh, no. Who was rumored to be the key piece coming back in maybe an Elias Pedersen trade

before he signed that contract extension. Jalen Chatfield. Yes. With the Vancouver Canucks last season. Spencer Martin. Marty Natchez. Yes. With the Vancouver Canucks last season. Spencer Martin. Marty Natchez. Third leading scorer in the NHL. On fire, he's got 30 points.

It's only, who's in front of him? McKinnon and Kaprizov. Kaprizov has 31. McKinnon has 33. Marty Natchez. Marty Natchez has more points than Jack Eichel, Sam Reinhart, Nikita Kucherov, Kael McCarr, Mikko Rantan, and Artemi Panarin. And I think his future in Carolina is still very much up in the air.

Get your thoughts into the Dunbar Lumber text line 650-650. You're listening to the Halford & Ruff Show on Sportsnet 650. Hey, it's Jamie Dodd and Thomas Drance. Get your daily dose of Canucks talk with us weekdays from 12 to 2 on Sportsnet 650. Or catch up on demand through your favorite podcast app. So the Cavs intercept and move. It's Ovechkin coming right side. He shoots and scores!

Alex Ovechkin, second goal of the game! Drives in, fires from the right side. It's four to Washington. 7.30 on a Monday. Happy Monday, everybody. Halford Brough, Sportsnet 650. Halford Brough of the Morning is brought to you by Vancouver Honda, Vancouver's premier destination for Honda customers.

They have a friendly, knowledgeable staff that can help with anything you're looking for, sales, financing, service, or parts. We are in Hour 2 of the program. Hour 2 is brought to you by Jason Hominuk from Jason.Mortgage. If you love paying too much for your mortgage, then don't let Jason shop around to find the perfect mortgage for you. I am being facetious. Definitely let him do that.

Visit him on the internet at jason.mortgage. Good track, laddie. Thank you. We're trying to work on a theme for Mondays. It's all like weekend sounding songs. So like the weekend continues. Nice. Something to that nature.

Give A-Dog credit for that one. I see where you're going with this. I like what you're laying down. Thank you. Picking it nature. I see where you're going with this. Give ADOG credit for that one. I see where you're going with this. I like what you're laying down. Thank you. Picking it up. Thank you. You played some Alexander Ovechkin audio coming back from break. Ovi with a hat trick over the weekend.

5-2 victory over the Vegas Golden Knights. 31st career hat trick for Ovechkin. He is now just 29 goals away from surpassing Wayne Gretzky's NHL record he's tied for the league lead in goals with 13 Sam Reinhardt and Leon Dreisaitl also have 13 goals none of us ever considered what would happen if Alexander Ovechkin came into the season in shape and ready to play and then he did it yeah because usually it's like I didn't think he'd break it this year I thought based on last year my understanding was he'll do whatever he does in the summer he'll come in and then

take the first couple months to yeah get his legs back old school so i remember when guys used to come to training camp to get into shape like that and then in january he'd go on a heater put the cigarette down these are gonna be tough to quit. Are those protein shakes? Nope, just regular shakes. He's also climbing up the career hat tricks leaderboard as well. He's one behind

Phil Esposito. Well, the caps are legit. I don't know. Look at their goal differential. Plus 24. I cannot explain it. They're a good team. Yep.

That's one of the best goal differentials in the NHL. They are looking very good. I can't explain it either besides Alex Ovechkin showed up in shape

and looks ready to go and they've got a future star or a current star, Connor McMichael, another Connor. The answer was they were lollygagging last year. That's the only answer.

No, no, no. Last season, their season turned around when Ovi turned it up. Yeah. And then they went on a crazy run down the stretch and made the playoffs all they've done like and then he came this year he's like what if so they were lollygagging what what if I just did that from the beginning of the

year and his coach was like that sounds great and Brian McClellan was like that sounds awesome let's do that and then they added some pieces around him Connor McMichael's a big part of it Dylan Strom like I don't, it took a while, but he finally arrived. He's playing great hockey. They're a very weird team. It's, I don't want to say like Island of Misfit Toys,

but it's a lot of sort of spare pieces and spare parts that they've grabbed along the way. And then sometimes things just click, right? It's funny because when we were talking about Bedard earlier, and if you missed

hour one of the podcast, download it now. Tons of Canucks talk, obviously, but we also dovetailed off from Saturday's win over Chicago into a Conor Bedard conversation. Sometimes you just, you get bad in the NHL and you try and dig your way out of it and you do it the traditional way.

You draft and develop. You don't even try, really. And then there comes a certain point where you're like, all right, enough of the losing. It's time to pick things up a little bit. And then you say, well, what are we going to do? Well, we're going to bring in some veteran guys to insulate the youths with.

You're like, okay. So Chicago goes out. And the problem with this is that when you decide to do that and make that decision, you have to do it from the pool of players that's available. Yes. And in Chicago's case, it was, oh, Taylor Hall's out there. Tyler Bertuzzi. Tyler Bertuzzi.

Yeah. Pat Maroon. Why are these guys all available? How come no one's signing them? Why are we overpaying for their services? And then you get into a situation like this where now you're still bad as a hockey team. And make no mistake, the Chicago Blackhawks are bad. A bunch of the young players either have stunted development

or have been jettisoned into the minors because it was too much too soon. But you've also got a bunch of veteran guys hanging around that were supposed to be lifting them up, and they're not doing that. Do we have 32 thoughts audio available? I think Freed dove more into this.

So if you were watching the broadcast on Saturday, after the game, the guy spent a considerable amount of time talking about the struggles that Bedard and the Blackhawks are going through now, specifically Bedard. And it sucks to watch. Local kid, you want the best for him. Maybe not necessarily for his organization, because, you know, the Blackhawks, I got feelings.

But you want him to succeed so that when he joins the Canucks, he'll be in good shape. But right now it's a struggle, without question. He's goalless in nine. He's pointless in three. We saw the turnover that led to JT Miller's empty netter on the weekend. It's tough. And before that, he was relatively invisible out there.

So here's Freed from the most recent 32 Thoughts, a drop this morning on Conor mcdarden's situation in chicago when you really tear it down in this league it takes a long time a long time and i understand completely why there are some teams that don't want to do it um you know that can lead you into more problems if you make poor decisions but i i understand it i i see how long it takes and so does everybody else you know uh biz and luke were talking about bedard in the face-off circle he went 0-4-8 um you know should he play center like the thing is like you i mean you could always move him to wing if you wanted to, but they don't have enough centers.

Like, if you look at them, they had Bedard at center. They had Foligno at center. They had Dickinson at center. And they had Reichel at center. But it's not enough. Like, they've tried Kurashev at center this year. I mean, he had, what, a 50-point season on the wing. They tried him to center.

Athanasiu, who's in Rockford right now, they tried him at center. Like, I'm just, like, I understand what Biz and Luke are saying there, but I don't know if he's going to get any better or the Blackhawks are going to be better served by putting him on the wing. Their roster is just too thin. And that was a tough shot to watch at the end of the game last night when he had his head him on the wing their roster is just too thin and that was a tough shot to watch at the end of the game last night when he had his head down on the bench you could see how disappointed he was and you know some people said look at his numbers the past few games

like like i i think the kid really cared we talked about this i think the kid really cares and he really tries and he really competes he wants to win just, I don't think you can put this all on him. Like they're just, they're just a long way away. And it's a lot of their offense is on him. I think your point about when teams come out of the rebuild or hope to come out of the rebuild and they say, okay, it's time to step on the gas now. Let's do it. That is often where we see teams really stumble because there is a lack of available talent in the NHL. Look at how hard it is to find defensemen.

No one's going to give up defensemen. And, you know, sometimes it just comes with like, it's not even you make additions. It's like, okay, we've had enough time to screw around. Yeah. Montreal Canadiens come to mind this year. It's like, all right, it's time to start showing that we have more than just potential based on paper. Like it's time to go out there

and play they can't play it ain't happening you know anaheim also springs to mind right i mean how many people have looked at all the draft picks they've assembled and all the talent that they've assembled young talent and then you watch them play they're like these guys suck yeah right you know look it is very it's it's to be like, okay, it's time to get serious. Um, the easy part is tearing it down. I could do that. I feel like I'm going to put together a bad team sometimes unintentionally. Yeah.

Yeah. I thought I was putting together a good team. Turns out it was a bad team. Here's the thing. Freed mentioned this when we played the audio in hour one. It is hard to turn things around in a dramatic nature in this league and in this sport, I think. Because unlike the NFL, where you can alter the course of your franchise with one top five quarterback. Yeah.

Look at the Houston Texans pre-CJ Stroud to the first year they had him need more than that though no no you need more than that just work with me here okay fine you can dramatically alter one season to the next by inputting one player into your lineup i think basketball is the better basketball is a great example too yeah you know what's the worst example hockey yeah because i you know you can't put Conor Bedard on the ice and say, take us from being a bottom five team in the NHL to maybe a playoff team. You can't do it. It's not possible.

He's not out on the ice enough. He doesn't play enough of the very important positions like defense and goaltending. The other thing too is he's entering the league as a teenager. You got to remember, the NBA, you're a little bit younger. Guys come into the NFL, and they're in their 20s.

They're more physically mature. They're ready to contribute right away. They can play at that level. Like, Conor Bedard's still a kid. He looks like a kid. He's built like a kid. It's a very difficult task. I also think you need to remember what it takes to put together a real contender.

Typically. It takes a lot. Yeah. You're looking at a couple of future Hall of Famers. Minimum. You know? Yeah. And then maybe like a third Hall of Famer that comes

for a cup of coffee at some point. Trying to rebuild back the Detroit Red Wings, for example. You can add a lot of very good players. Dylan Larkin is a very good player. Yep. But you're trying to get back to Datsuk, Zetterberg, and Lidstrom.

Sure. That's the bar. I would. You know, you look at Anaheim and Getzlaff and Perry. And when they were winning Stanley Cups, the blue lines that they had, Pronger and Niedermeyer, right? I mean, that is a high bar to get back to.

In Vancouver, you know, the Canucks have come closer than teams like Anaheim and Detroit and Buffalo, but the Canucks didn't even win a Stanley Cup and they had first ballot Hall of Famers. They had the Sedins and they had Luongo and they had Ryan Kessler that won a Selkie. To put together a really good hockey team right now takes a heck of a lot more than one good young player.

It's why, if you want to look at the current example of how difficult it is, it's Buffalo. And I don't know how else to say it is, it's Buffalo. And I don't know how else to say it, but it's Buffalo. Since 2014, so go 2014 to 2024, 10 years of drafts. In eight of them, Buffalo had a top 10 pick. In two of them, they had the first overall pick.

And if you go back and you look at the guys that they picked reinhardt eichel nylander middlestadt doleen cousins quinn power they had countless bites at the apple so how do you do it how do you do it what is what is the what is the the key what is the solution because we all know that you can also get yourself in trouble by not trying to tank and fighting against the inevitable decline of your team and throwing good money after bad. You can also sink yourself that way. So really, what is the answer? Does it just, in some ways I think like you need to get a bunch at the same time around the

same age of high character, highly competitive guys that are all going to grow together. You can't just be like, it's all on you. One player, Connor Bedard, or it's all on you. One player, Jack Eichel, for example,

and you're going to do it. There has to be multiple pieces of youth and they have to be highly motivated, highly competitive, and they have to almost know right away what it takes. I don't know if there's a perfect solution. As a matter of fact, I do know that there's not a perfect solution. There's no equation out there that works 100% of the time. Otherwise, someone would have found it and everyone would be using it. I will say this. When Freed says how hard it is to get out of rock bottom,

I would be very leery because for the last decade or so between the countless prospects, experts that are out there and a lot of people that are saying the only way to get good is to get real bad. What we're seeing now after a decade of teams trying to do this. And I think the low point was when Buffalo and Arizona had that lose off. Like we need to lose as many games as possible. Right. Um, and that Sabres as many games as possible. Right? Or that Sabres-Coyotes game where the fans were cheering against their team. Tonight on Rock Bottom. Sometimes you can go too low.

Right? We saw it on Friday night. Sometimes you can go too low. And it's hard to get in. No, you mean go too high. No, no. It's the other way around. Sometimes you can go too low. Because you've got to understand there's being bad,

and then there's intentionally being bad, where your sole purpose is to tank. I understand that it's worked elsewhere. You can't get the first overall pick unless you're the worst team in the league. But I think what you've got to understand in hockey is that when you get the first overall pick unless you're the worst team in the league. But I think what you got to understand in hockey is that when you get that first overall pick, it's not the franchise changer that it is in other sports. Just compare the situation that Conor Bedard finds himself in to the situation that Patrick Kane found himself in. He was a first overall pick, very highly touted.

Yep. You know who else Jonathan Taves had to go through the process with? Or sorry, Patrick Kane, he had Jonathan Taves. He had Duncan Keith. Like these were all guys that came up with him. Yeah. And they did it in tandem.

That's a good point. You know? And you think about Sidney Crosby. He had Geno. Think about Connor McDavid. He's had Dreisaitl. You need the multiple young players. Look at Vancouver. Yeah, they added JT Miller and that obviously helped, but Petey had Hughes and Hughes had Petey and they both had Demko. It's almost like hockey is a team sport or something. It's almost like hockey is a team sport. There's also's almost like hockey is a team sport. There's also another thing we need to point out here.

And this is revisionist history in hindsight being 2020. But the moment that Bedard was draft eligible and the hype train started, maybe we should have seen this coming. Because I love the kid. I think he's immensely talented. But he's not McDavid. And he was positioned to be another McDavid. Unfairly, but that's the hype machine.

And I hate blaming ESPN and TNT, but I know how it works. It wasn't just them, though. It was the Canadian. It was everybody. He's 19 and you're already calling it. He's not as good as McDavid. It's not happening.

He's not as good as McDavid. Really? He never was. You're calling it already. Yes. Yes as good as McDavid. It's not happening. He's not as good as McDavid. Really? He never was. You're calling it already. Yes. Yes. Yes. McDavid is a unicorn.

Yeah. There's one Connor McDavid. Yeah. That's it. End of sentence. McDavid is being tasked with, sorry, McDavid is all unto himself.

Bedard is being tasked with trying to live up to a franchise-carrying task that I think only maybe three or four active players are capable of doing. It's tough. We're talking about the elite of the elite. We've seen other first overall picks come in. Like, Rasmus Delin was supposed to be a franchise-caliber defenseman who was going to change the fortunes of the Sabres. The greatest defensive prospect

since Denny Potvin. Yeah. Nick Lindstrom comps. It's tough. It's tough. The Sabres, though, the funny thing about it, the Sabres have no excuse. You know, I talk about they've got multiple guys, or you need multiple young players. They should have that.

They should have that. They should have that. There's another first overall pick defenseman on the blue line. In Owen Power, you've got guys like Dylan Cousins. I mean, the Sabres are all just something special. Let's move on to some of your texts into the Dunbar-Lumber text line because I promised I would read some. Jay from Delta texts in, The day Tom Willender arrives,

will that be the day we finally see Hughes and Hronik, that pair be broken up, then Willender plays with either one of them? Well, it would make sense. Willender's a right shot that he would play with Hughes and then Hronik would move down and pair with someone else. I don't know. I honestly don't spend much time thinking

about Tom Willender because he's, he could be a ways off. He might not be, maybe he comes in next year and you know, he leaves college and he comes in and I don't know, maybe it happens before the playoffs. You never know, right? Who knows? I didn't think Lekker Mackey would be in the NHL this quickly. And sometimes when you're desperate, you force these guys into roles when,

you know, maybe the best idea is to let them marinate a little bit in the minors. And then sometimes it's the right move to bring them in the NHL right now. I don't really think about it that much. I'm thinking about this current defense though. And, you know, the Canucks actually did call up Elias Pettersson, DPD, over the weekend. And it was just insurance because I think one of the guys might've been a little banged up.

I think maybe Darren A was banged up. But I think that says a lot about the current situation of the Canucks defense. And they actually called up Elias Pettersson, even as the seventh defenseman, even though he didn't play. You're looking at this team right now and Hughes is obviously playing well, although I

don't think he's been at his best over the last few games. Certainly hasn't reached the heights that he reached against the LA Kings when he was incredible. You know, Horonix had some tough moments defensively where he hasn't looked very good. Susie Myers, we all know about that.

Susie is just. He's having a tough go. He is having a real, real tough go. Yep. And, you know, Myers is best as a third pair guy at this point in his career, but he's being tasked with being essentially the number three defenseman on this team. And then you've got Branstrom and take your pick, De'Aaron A., Juleson.

The defense is extremely problematic right now. And, you know, plus you've got some issues now with Kevin Lankanen suddenly doesn't seem so unbeatable. I don't know if other teams have watched tape of him or whatever. I got that.

Woodley's going to join us at eight o'clock. Yeah, yeah. I got to ask him, have the shooters figured out Lankanen? Maybe just a little. Oh, they went to his glove a couple of times,

but Stephen Stamkos is a pretty good shooter, right? Yeah, yeah. He's a good shooter. That was two very nice shots from Stephen Stamkos is a pretty good shooter, right? Yeah, yeah, they shoot him. He's a good shooter. Yeah, he's a good shooter. That was two very nice shots from Stephen Stamkos. If this happens like three or four games in a row, then maybe I'd start to say. But look, he's played a lot of hockey, and he's never been in this situation, and he was playing very well, and now he looks human.

But it was great that Artie Silov had a good game against Chicago, although Chicago, let's face it, has a pop-gun offense. But it was good. He just played for Abby. He was used to the talent level. Yeah. Throw him out there. Talent level. Another text that came in, Drew, I'm not going to read the whole thing

because Drew is very frustrated with the Canucks right now. Okay. But he asked the question, why isn't Dakota Joshua and Abbotsford on a conditioning stint? He looks slow out there. And I would agree that Dakota Joshua, you know, he's, I said earlier in the show,

we're going to have to be patient with him. Here's the thing with the conditioning stints, the players got to agree to him. So maybe he didn't want to go down there. I don't, I don't want to, I don't want to make a story where there isn't one. Oh.

But, are you disappointed that it wasn't? Yeah. You know. Stir it up. Come on. Stir it up. I think a lot of us were hoping,

hoping that the Canucks would get a bit of a, a lift from Dakota Joshua coming back into the lineup. Didn't happen. In fact, he's got to play. He's got to play. In fact, his first game back was arguably the worst of the season.

I just, yeah, I get the idea. I think he's got to play. Talk. It's making some decisions right now, by the way, that might be long game plays.

Like I saw a lot. I heard a lot of people on the postgame show last night complaining that with two minutes left, he keeps Atu Ratu out. I don't not calling the time out. He's got Ratu out on a draw late in the game. I can't remember if it was on an icing or not, but whatever. Ratu's out. And I'm like, and Sat kind of put it out there saying,

hey, maybe this is a long-term play. Like we're going to show a younger player that he's going to get this opportunity in a big moment. You know who wasn't out there? JT Miller. And you want to talk about, you know, messages being sent right now that might have a larger scale impact. Before we go to Woodley on the other side,

I just want to replay the very brief and very, how do we word it, laddie, terse? Yeah, that was the word I used. Very terse exchange between Brandon brandon bachelor rick talkett and then ian mcintyre and rick talkett when speaking about what happened in the third period yesterday jt miller only played two shifts on the third he finished with less than 12 minutes of ice time here's the first question about that asked by brandon bachelor answered by rick talkett we've got the audio here jt didn't play much in the third what can you say about this is one of the

guys that i thought couldn't get us back in the game. That was followed up by Ian McIntyre, Sportsnet's very own, asking a fairly legitimate question. Did the decision have anything to do with injury? Here's the question, here's the answer. Back to one of those key guys, we know that JT has dealt with something

since the preseason. Is that a factor in his ice time tonight? No. So not hurt. Decision was just about trying to get the guys out there that were going to give us the best chance to win a hockey game. I mean, this is going to reverberate over the next couple days until the Canucks play again because it's a big decision from a head coach. It's a big move.

And this was another thing they brought up on the postgame show afterwards. Bick and Sat did a good job about it. Maybe a case of, I will treat all of you guys on the team. This is Talk It speaking to the players. I'll treat all of you guys fairly, but I'm not going to treat you all the same. The Preds' fourth goal, which was Stephen Stamko's second of the night, and I've actually retweeted someone who threw the video of it up. Miller isn't moving his feet.

He's not getting his stick in passing lanes. The only thing he seems to be doing is telling other players where to go on the ice. And we saw that recently from JT Miller on a PK, and I kind of chalked it up to, you know, he got caught out there, he was gassed, but he's like, these three feet, I'm moving here. Right?

Like it, it, it, I, I, so I would understand why someone would be like, is, is he injured? Cause he's not really like moving, but we've also seen this sometimes from JT Miller where for whatever reason in these high pressure situation, he just stops moving. You know, maybe it'll be, he doesn't back check like you should, or, you know, I, I, and

when he's barking at other players on the ice, it's, it's not a good sign. And I think Petey was pretty visibly frustrated with JT on that play. But the PK killed them last night. Yeah, Pocket said it. He liked their game. The PK killed them and, you know, I will be

very curious to see what kind of JT Miller we get when the Canucks play the Rangers on Tuesday at Rogers Arena. Kevin Woodley is coming up next on the Halford and Brough Show on Sportsnet 650.