Halford & Brough in the Morning - Will The Whitecaps Relocate?

Episode Date: December 16, 2024

In hour two, Mike & Jason talk Week 15 highlights with Too Deep Zone NFL insider Mike Tanier (1:20), including a disappointing Sunday loss for the Seahawks to Green Bay, they react to the news of the Whitecaps looking for new ownership, and if that means they might re-locate to a different city (13:48), plus they hear from Colorado Hockey Now's Aarif Dean (26:02) ahead of tonight's Canucks home matchup versus the Avalanche. This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

7.05 on a Monday. Happy Monday, everybody. Halford Brough, Sportsnet 650. Halford and Brough of the Morning is brought to you by Vancouver Honda, Vancouver's premier destination for Honda customers. They have a friendly, knowledgeable staff that can help with anything you're looking for, sales, financing, service, four parts. We are in Hour two of the program.

Mike Tanier, our NFL insider from the 2 Deep Zone sub stack, is going to join us in just a moment here to kick off hour two. Hour two is brought to you by Jason Hominuk from Jason.Mortgage. If you love giving the banks more of your money, then don't let Jason shop around to find the perfect mortgage for you. I am joking. Let him do exactly that. Visit him on the internet at Jason.mortgage. We are coming to you live from the Kintec studio. Kintec, Canada's

favorite orthotics provider, powered by thousands of five-star Google reviews. So, Rafi, what are you waiting for? Kintec. To the phone lines we go. Mike Tanier, our NFL insider from the 2 Deep Zone sub stack, joins us now on the Halford & Braff show on SportsNet 650. Good morning, Michael. How are you? I'm doing great.

It's wonderful here in Greater Philly. You know how weird it is to be surrounded by Eagles fans in a good mood? It was an impressive victory yesterday. Their 10th consecutive victory, and they managed to put to bed, I guess, temporarily, the beef between A.J. Brown and Jalen Hurts.

Is that the biggest talking point today in the NFL, that the Eagles were on this 10-game winning streak, or was it what happened between Buffalo and Detroit yesterday with the Josh Allen MVP-like performance? But also, and I've been listening to Sports Talk Radio this morning, so I heard this, the Dan Campbell onside kick. Dan Campbell onside kick. I mean, that's one of the only top 10 weird things that happened in that

Bills-Lions game. I swear I was watching an NBA All-Star game when I watched that game, where it was nothing but alley-oops and cross-court passes, fourth-down conversions, backup setters scoring touchdowns, flea flickers. It was amazing. I don't know what the biggest story is in the NFL right now, because you look at that Bills-Lions game and you say, oh, yeah, the Bills are awesome. Let's wait and see how they do at the end of the playoffs, but the Bills are awesome. You look at the Lions taking that loss and say, well, the Lions let the opponent get a 14-0 lead on them, facing one of the best teams in the NFL

and gave them all they had until the end. In terms of the Eagles, it's like, yeah, the Eagles flipped the script on this whole Jalen Hurts is squabbling with A.J. Brown and maybe Smitty, too. But we kind of know these teams are the best teams in the NFL. We kind of know we're going to see them again. And that's why in the two deep zones today, I was kind of interested in, hey, what's going on with the Broncos? Hey, what's going on with the Texans? I did try to look at some of the other games this week because it wasn't just, well, this is a possible Super Bowl preview and maybe we'll see it again in February.

It's an interesting point to bring up because what we knew about the contenders, we kind of already knew, and most of them solidified it over the weekend. Is anyone making things in that sort of second tier underneath the contenders? Is anybody making things really interesting for you right now?

The Baltimore Ravens are an incredible team that is unbelievably self-destructive. And they really coasted to an easy victory over the Giants, although they made it hard on themselves again because they were dropping interceptions, they were committing penalties left and right. If you look at the AFC North right now, and you look at the Steelers and look at the Ravens,

the Ravens are clearly the better team, except that they make so many mistakes. The Steelers are the weaker team, but they rarely make mistakes, so it's a tortoise and hare situation. If you're looking for a team that might end up as a wild card, and the Ravens are still a game behind, it could cause all kinds of problems going into Kansas City. I'm sure we'll talk about Mahomes' injury. Going into Buffalo, the Ravens are that team. I want to talk about the Packers because as much as I was frustrated as a Seahawks fan watching that game, I was left less frustrated with the Seahawks, but more Minnesota, good team, and both those games were close. And they've lost twice to Detroit, the last one being in Detroit,

which was very close. They lost 34-31. The Packers are good, man. I guess I hadn't been paying attention close enough, but this is a really good team. What did you think of their performance against Seattle Packers are very good all the losses you mentioned kind of hurt them with all of the playoff portfolios because it's like oh yeah you're stuck at the bottom of the wild card chase because all the teams you lost to are ahead of you but yeah solid top to bottom team you saw

them with Romeo Dobbs back Dobbs has been hurt for a couple weeks and when they had Romeo Dobbs back that means they could get the ball to him and Jaden Reed and Christian Watson and Tucker Kraft and the Josh Jacobs and really spread the ball around there. What was surprising was how well their defense has played. Their defense has been pretty good all year, but you get that seven-sack performance, that two-turnover performance. You're seeing guys like Kingsley Akabare and other guys

who aren't really heralded defenders coming in making plays. I think part of that was Sam Howell. Sam Howell's a very sack-prone quarterback, but part of it is a demonstration that the Packers really have a diverse array of talent. They can beat opponents in a lot of ways. Right now, according to DVLA analysis,

they're the third-best team in the NFL. They're actually the third-best team in the NFL. They're higher ranked in the Bills right now, which is stunning. But it's a testament to what Matt LaFleur is doing there, how well Jordan Love is playing, how well those other guys have played. So that division is pretty good. Detroit, Green Bay, and Minnesota, who we're going to see tonight against the not-good member of the division,

the Chicago Bears. That's on Monday Night Football. But for Seahawks fans, this is the next team that's on Monday Night Football but for Seahawks fans this is the next team that comes to Seattle it's next weekend Vikings in Seattle so at least the Seahawks are getting the Vikings on a short week what has been the key to the Vikings success this year they're 11-2 and Sam Darnold is the quarterback unbelievable play by their playmakers uh donald has been helped by justin jefferson jordan addison like moving into the elite category of receivers when he got healthy t.j hockinson very helpful tight end aaron jones at running back and they're helped by brian flores's defense which throws

so many different looks at you that even though you might not necessarily see a bunch of household names on that defense you're going to get blitzed names on that defense, you're going to get blitzed. And then when you think you're going to get blitzed, when there's eight guys in the line of scrimmage, they're only going to rush three and there's going to be players in zones all over the place. This would be a terrible matchup for Sam Howe. I know Geno Smith, there's somewhat encouraging news about his ankle. This would be a horrendous matchup for Sam Howe, a guy who doesn't necessarily read defense as well, who can get snookered into making mistakes and who will take sacks. That could be a real problem for the Seahawks.

It's tough. We were very optimistic last week about the Seahawks, and then everything broke wrong for them. Smith's injury, Packers playing that well against them at home, and the Rams winning that sloppy rain game against the 49ers to stay in place. Now the cards are really stacked against the Seahawks suddenly. I know that he was thrown into a pretty tough spot yesterday, but Sam Howell is not the guy for anybody, is he?

What you saw is what you got. You know, Washington Commanders kind of gave him a full year, and you'll see him deliver some balls downfield and say, Hey, that was good. That was good. Sacks, sacks, sacks, sacks, sacks. He will hold the ball long. He will not help his offensive line. He will not trust what he sees.

He's an okay scrambler, but he will scramble himself into trouble. And that's kind of the guy he is. And again, what a terrible team to face when you're a sack-prone quarterback. The Vikings will throw so many looks at you and send so many blitzes from so many different directions. It'll confuse you. You really need the veteran Geno Smith to be playing for you in that game. Speaking of

injured quarterbacks Patrick Mahomes hurt in the Chiefs 21-7 win over the Cleveland Browns on Sunday enter Carson Wentz as the backup quarterback there now Kansas City's positioning is pretty safe here so they do have the luxury of maybe trying to arrest Mahomes but do we have any update on the significance and severity of the injury and what does this team look like with Wentz at quarterback not Mahomes well we don't have any updates I'm not anticipating Andy Reid suddenly to become super forthright about the status of Patrick Mahomes yeah maybe maybe his wife will post something on Instagram and then we'll know something that way. The problem right now, Carson Wentz, who's a

long-time star in the NFL, when you talk about a guy who's turnover and mistake prone, that's him. He'll mix your big plays with big mistakes, kind of like Jameis Winston, and that's not necessarily what you want for the Chiefs. The problem the Chiefs face is they face the Texans on Saturday

and then the following Wednesday on Christmas they face the Steelers. That's two tough opponents, two opponents with something to play for. That's an opportunity for the Buffalo Bills because Wentz's one job is to secure home field advantage. He's coming in with a two-game lead in it with three to play. It's still possible. I can definitely see Wentz against tough defenses in Houston and Pittsburgh, causing problems, getting some losses, giving the Buffalo Bills,

who have a very easy upcoming schedule, an opportunity to claim it. And I have to say about that is that the Chiefs didn't need to be in this position. You know, they had a 21-0 lead. They should have been salting the game away. They're bad at salting games away. This is a consequence of a Chiefs team that's very good, obviously, as a 13-1 team, but at salting games away. This is a consequence of a Chiefs team that's very good, obviously, as a 13-1 team, but never puts their opponents away.

And so now they put their quarterback who's irreplaceable and indispensable in harm's way when they didn't have to. I had the same opinion of what the Chargers were doing to Justin Herbert yesterday in a blowout loss, and they kept him out there, and Harbaugh was watching him get hit, and I was like, just take him out. This game is

over, because Tampa Bay rolled them up 40- 17 in LA it's the most points that the Chargers have given up at home this season and I gotta admit like I was very skeptical of the Bucs last year and I've watched them this year I actually have a grudging admiration for what they've been able to do with all the injuries and everything I saw some people trying to talk themselves into thinking that the Bucs might be a legit contender in the NFC. I'm not sure that they're there. Do you? No, no, not at all.

They're the team that's going to win that division. And they played – the Chargers are a good opponent, but other than that, they played nobody. They have beaten so many Saints and Panthers and bad teams, and the rest of their schedule is unbelievably easy. They still have the Cowboys, the Panthers, and I think the Saints. But they're the team that are going to go out there in the first round and probably lose to the Packers,

or lose to the Vikings, or lose to some other unlucky wildcard team. But give the Buccaneers credit for winning the games you're supposed to win, because when you do that in the NFL, you're going to stay in the playoff chase, and that's what they've done. Also, when you talk about Herbert, he came into that game injured. He suffered.

He obviously aggravated that injury early in the game, his ankle injury. Levante David kind of swiped him at the ankles, knocked him down, and he got up slowly. And, yes, Harbaugh kept Herbert in there, in there, in there. I didn't know what the point was. At the very end, he did take him out. But, yeah, the Chargers are the team I'm looking for that could fall off the chase. Don't have a lot of playmakers.

Herbert is clearly banged up. He's not the same when he's banged up. And I think the Buccaneers exposed a lot of holes in their defense that other opponents might be able to exploit down the stretch. Mike, real quick before we let you go. Not one, but two Monday Night Football games today. You had the Vikings and the Bears. You have the Falcons and the Raiders.

What are you looking forward to for Monday Night Football? This should be easy wins for the Vikings and Falcons. And I think it will be for the Vikings and the Bears. You have the Falcons and the Raiders. What are you looking forward to for Monday Night Football? This should be easy wins for the Vikings and Falcons, and I think it will be for the Vikings. Nothing is ever easy for the Atlanta Falcons. They're falling apart. They're at risk of losing a very easy division. They have questions about Kirk Cousins. They need the get-right game tonight,

but the Falcons wouldn't be the Falcons if they were good at winning get-right games. Mike, you're the best, buddy. Thanks for taking the time to do this today. We really appreciate it. Enjoy the games tonight and all the games next weekend. We'll do this again next Monday. Absolutely. Take care. Enjoy your week. You too. Thanks. That's Mike Tan here, our Monday morning quarterback, brought to you by

the Clayton Public House. Pre-game to post-game, the Clayton Public House is your home of football. Catch all the action on 15 screens and two giant projectors. Visit them online at claytonpub.com. That's a couple gross games tonight. Bears and Vikings, Falcons and Raiders. I guess Bears and Vikings.

I don't mind Bears and Vikings. Yeah, I want a scouting report on the Vikings because they're the next team to come into Seattle, which is apparently a pretty easy place to play. I'm not really. Isn't it funny, by the way, how the Canucks followed up one of their most complete performances of the year with an absolute dud against the Bruins and the Seahawks followed up definitely their most complete performance of the season.

Everyone's like, the offensive line has figured it out. And then Green Bay comes in and is like, no, they haven't. And just to continue the comparison. And the home records yeah the home they've been terrible at home so i was reading field goals which is a very good sp nation seahawks site yeah they don't pull the punches they have been monitoring every week every home game like a sort of unofficial anecdotal count of uh opposition jerseys and chants and cheers at lumen field and this year it's been tough because Bills fans obviously traveled really well

and they infiltrated in a blowout win. And they said last night they saw so many swaths of Packers fans sitting in Lumenfield. And it's like there was a really loud Packers chants going on. It is nowhere near the fortress of the gauntlet that it used to be. That's gone home field advantage for the seahawks doesn't even really exist anymore i want to talk about the vancouver whitecaps because there was big news um after our show on friday that the whitecaps were

going to be put up for sale and i go to admit i've been wondering for a while if this might happen. Franchise values in MLS have been rising so quickly that I don't think you can be shocked that Kerfoot and the rest of the ownership group is apparently ready to cash out. This ownership group took control of the team in 2008 and their expansion fee for the Whitecaps was $30 million.

That franchise is now worth around half a billion dollars. Low side, probably $400 million. High side, maybe $500 million. We should have got in on MLS team back then. We should have got one. But we couldn't scratch the $30 million. High side, maybe $500 million. We should have got in on MLS team. We should.

We should have got one. But we couldn't scratch the $30 million together. We were close. The big question now is whether or not the Whitecaps will remain in Vancouver. And that's not clickbait. That is a more than fair question to ask because the stadium is an issue.

And I don't think it's a coincidence that this announcement comes with a year left on the lease at BC Place. We've talked to Axel Schuster a couple times about the lease, and he said, we're working on it. The Whitecaps, we all know the drawbacks of BC Place.

They don't have a grass pitch. They have to compete with the Lions concerts and things like the motocross for dates. And sometimes the motocross wins. It's widely understood that they don't get anything from the concessions or parking. And if you know anything about the sports business, you want to control your stadium, both for revenue purposes and also just for convenience. If you control your stadium,

you're in a much better position. Now, could a new ownership group build a new stadium? I guess it's possible, but I don't know if anyone's noticed. If you're trying to get into the housing market or something in this city, land seems to be quite expensive and not very plentiful. So I've heard. Have you heard that? It's a lot easier to find the dirt in almost any other city in North America.

You want to build a stadium? Not only is it expensive in Vancouver and the lower mainland as a whole, by the way, but it's not exactly there. Go to Vegas. There's land there. Go to places like St. Louis. There's land there. Arizona.

It's cheap. Arizona. There's lots of... Go to Detroit. It's easy to find's it's cheap arizona there's lots of go to detroit there's it's easy to find there's like burnt out buildings in those cities it's not the case in vancouver uh cities like vegas indianapolis detroit and phoenix have all come up as possible expansion candidates there are currently 30 teams in MLS and the commissioner Don Garber actually recently said like I think we might be good with 30 teams right now the whitecaps are among the lowest revenue teams in MLS the revenues of teams like LAFC and the Galaxy absolutely dwarf what

the whitecaps bring in and don't forget about like Miami Miami right in Seattle yep and and you know we we've said for an for a long time on the show we're worried about the white caps being left behind in MLS as it continues to grow and it gets bigger and more money gets put into it meanwhile the white caps are kind of like stuck in their situation.

What have you heard from the Whitecaps community? I realize that Vancouver is a good city and, you know, MLS probably wants to be here. But the stadium situation to me, it just, I don't know if this is going to be something that a new ownership group can overcome. It's going to be something that a new ownership group can overcome. It's hard to be super optimistic about the future of the club when you look at the sort of straight facts as you laid them out.

Ideally, you'd want a local owner or an owner with local ties that would be, at the very least least emotionally invested in keeping the team. But then you come back to the issue of who has 500 million and wants to invest that 500 million in being a tenant in what might be the worst stadium situation in all of MLS. It's that singular point makes it hard to be crazy optimistic about the future of the team in Vancouver. Axel Schuster,

when meeting with the media on Friday, kind of made it clear that there's nothing written in any agreement about a sale that would be ironclad keeping the team in Vancouver. Now, as far as relocation goes, there would be issues there. I think the first one would be that MLS has done a lot of expansion

and those expansion fees are big and all the clubs like those expansion fees. It's a lot of money. It was 500 million for the last one, if I'm not mistaken. They've expanded to a lot of different places. General, I mean, that's kind of a general sports thing. That's not just local to MLS or exclusive to MLS.

Most leagues are like, hey, expansion's great. Except for the CFL. CFL's a little different. A little different. But the other thing is, and shout out to former Whitecaps play-by-play voice Peter Shad, who was on Twitter and was putting out a lot of really good points to this particular situation. There are some clubs that are larger than the club that they are.

It's like a sporting group, essentially. And we've seen it with like the City Group, Manchester City Group, Etihad, that also has NYCFC in their portfolio, right? Yeah. There's Red Bull that has New York Rebels now this is just that purely purely a hypothetical but I think it leans more towards what a potential like savior might be it would be a sporting group that could look at this and say it's a it's a opportunity to have a foothold in MLS where it's all ready to go. The chances of it happening are probably incredibly slim.

I think it's slim, man. I think if I was an English club looking to do something like that, I wouldn't go to the other side of North America for it. And I'd still want to make money. I'd still want to make money on this. They're losing money. The current ownership group has been willing to lose money because their franchise value has been going up.

And they've seen it and they've known like, yeah, we can take these losses. Look, the franchise. How much more can the franchise value go up? I think there's a reason why. I mean, maybe it can go up forever. I don't know. Who knows with asset values around the world

and stocks and real estate through the roof. Who knows? I don't know. Who knows with asset values around the world and stocks and real estate through the roof. Who knows? I don't know. Nobody knows. But I think that is like, kind of like, maybe this could happen. Like there's a desperation set. Maybe Aston Villa could come to the rescue

and make the Whitecaps their New York Red Bull or New York, whatever that is, city. The reason that I bring it up isn't necessarily that that would be the solution, but it's that if it's on a list of... Why wouldn't they just take the team and move it and then build it, build their own organization? Possible. Why would they do it in Vancouver?

Well, I guess... Any owner. I guess because it's turnkey, because they've got everything there already. They've got a place to play in. They don't have a stadium, actually. They don't even have a lease to the stadium. Well, they have a stadium to play in. Let's put it that way.

Okay. Yeah. And they have a training facility and those sorts of things. It's not that hard to do that in other places. It really isn't. I don't think that's the point. I'm worried about them. That's why.

I'm worried. I'm worried. I don't want that's the point. I'm worried about them. That's why. I'm worried. I'm worried. I don't want to lose this team. I don't want to lose this team. And I'm worried that MLS has gotten too big and the franchise values have risen too large for them to be successful in BC Place. Yeah. The point I was trying to bring up is that

the majority of groups that own MLS teams now are like Red Bull Group, AEG, several prominent NFL owners. And you're talking about people that are in the multi-billionaire category. Yeah, and people are saying like, maybe Amar Doman could buy them. No, man.

Like the Lions and the Whitecaps, the franchise value of an MLS team like the Whitecaps dwarfs the CFL franchise value. It's a different game. What about a group including? Completely different. No. Could we get a group of local investors together?

I don't think it would. Do you know how difficult it would be to raise half a billion dollars to invest in a Whitecaps team that plays in a stadium that doesn't suit it and they don't control it? It is very difficult. Essentially like buying an expansion franchise you got to start from scratch if you want to have all those things like your own stadium and everything you got to think of it just like a like a team from scratch why not so again the only reason i brought it up was more about like the the scope of ownership that you're talking about like how deep pocketed they need to be how many resources they need to have i mean you look at

what's going on in montreal right now with the saputo group i think the one i think montreal and vancouver are both in danger of relocation like saputo is not a high revenue multi-billionaire owner in comparison to some of the other groups that own MLS teams. It's not like when they bought the Whitecaps and it

was three guys that clawed together 30 million to buy a franchise. He's pretty rich, but I think he's just probably like,

yeah, sure, I'll sell them for $400 million. You can take them. Right. Because they've got a bunch of

issues there, including a stadium issue. And they've got a better stadium situation than Vancouver, to be perfectly honest with you. Because they have it.

Arif Dean is going to join us next to talk about the Colorado Avalanche. We're in town tonight to face the Vancouver Canucks, and then we'll dip into the Dunbar Lumber text line, take a few more of your texts, and then Kevin Woodley is going to join us at eight o'clock, and we'll talk about the goaltending situation in Vancouver.

Thatcher Damko probably going to start tonight against the Colorado Avalanche because Kevin Lankanen has been battling the flu. You're listening to the Halford & Brough show on Sportsnet 650. Hey, it's Jamie Dodd and Thomas Drance. Get your daily dose of Canucks talk with us

weekdays from 12 to 2 on Sportsnet 650 or catch up on demand through your favorite podcast app. 735 on a Monday. Happy Monday, everybody. Halford Brough, Sportsnet 650. Halford and Brough in the morning is brought to you by Vancouver Honda, Vancouver's premier destination for Honda customers. They have a friendly, knowledgeable staff, they can help with anything you're looking for,

sales, financing, service, four parts. We are in hour two of the program. Eric Dean from Colorado Hockey Now is going to join us in just a moment here to set up tonight's game. 7.30 puck drop, 12 hours from now. Canucks-Aves from Rogers Arena. Hour 2 of this program is brought to you

by Jason Hominuck from Jason.Mortgage. If you love paying too much for your mortgage, then don't let Jason shop around to find the perfect mortgage for you. Visit him online at Jason.Mortgage. To the phone lines we go. Arif Dean joins us now on the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650.

Morning, Arif. How are you? I'm doing well, gentlemen. How are you guys doing? We're good. Thanks for taking the time to do this today. We appreciate it. So the Colorado Avalanche come in having won four of five and five of the last seven.

They got a brand new goalie. They're getting healthy. The injuries have whittled down to just a key three right now. So it seems as though things are going pretty well for the Avs heading into Vancouver tonight for the 7.30 start. Yeah, a little bit. I mean, the goaltending,

they got a new goalie. They got new goalies because it started with Scott Wedgwood nine days before the Blackwood deal and it seems like ever since then, things have started to turn around just a little bit. There's still a little inconsistencies in their play, but it's a heck of a lot better now than it was

when they were missing seven or eight guys from their forward core and the goalies couldn't make a save in October. Just how bad did the goaltending get? It was really bad. I mean, it's as bad on the inside as it seemed on the outside because I think at one point when the first trade was made, the one for Scott Wedgewood, I believe 52 goalies had played a minimum of, I want to say it was five games in the NHL,

and Georgiev and Inunin were ranked 50th and 52nd in safe percentage so it it was about as bad as it sounds you know whenever the Avalanche were losing I think through their first 10 losses of the season they had only given up less than four goals once in those losses like when they lost they lost they were given up five six seven goals the goals against uh in the NHL in general, right now the Avalanche are still near the top. They're with teams like San Jose. They're with teams like Philadelphia. They're giving up a heck of a lot of goals. Or not Philadelphia, sorry, Pittsburgh. They're giving up a heck of a lot of goals right now, the Avalanche, and they have been all season. So it was as bad on the inside as it as it seemed on the outside probably um i guess you probably guys everyone in in the market went back and forth on whether it was

the goaltending or the defensive play of the team how has the defensive play of the team been so they've had some rough stretches uh it's well documented and and this is kind of uh a little bit of an alert for Team Canada in a sense but he has been better lately but I wrote an article back early in the season when Jared Bednar talked about Devon Taves has been playing hurdle season and then we talked to Devon Taves and basically he's had some kind of a lingering injury since training camp that he hasn't really had a chance to take time off to, you know, to get corrected. And he straight up admitted he's playing hurt and you know, he's a little bit limited in that sense.

So he's just trying to adjust how to play with this injury that he has, that they won't share what the details of it are. So that's an example of a player that early in the season, Devontae's numbers really, really struggled. He's come on here recently in the last two or three weeks. Crazy enough, despite all of this, he's still playing 23, 24, 25, 26 minutes per game. But that's one example. Josh Manson didn't have a great start, and then he got hurt.

Guys like Calvin DeHaan and Sam Malinsky on the third pair did not have great starts, especially Calvin DeHaan, and he's finally come on. So the team defense struggled as well, but when the team defense struggled, they couldn't get a save at the same time. So things just kind of added up to getting the avalanche to the point where they traded both goalies. But the team defense definitely is part of the issue and was part of the issue um and you know it's not entirely corrected yet but it does look a heck of a lot better than it did you know even three four or five weeks ago so tell us about the season that nathan mckinnon is having because um you know it's the three-headed monster in in colorado with mckinnon rantanen and mccarr with McKinnon, Rantanen, and McCarr.

McKinnon and Rantanen are on the same line. Just how tough a challenge is this going to be for the Canucks to shut that line down? It's a pretty tough challenge. It's something that not a lot of teams can do. Nathan McKinnon had a little bit of a weird uh bad stretch between mid to late november where he only had and i you know you say that lightly he only had three assists in seven games uh of that and that might that might even be the worst stretch that i've seen him play in four or five seasons in terms of production uh outside of that he's been his typical self three points against

nashville he scored against Utah. Five points against Pittsburgh and his linemate, Rantanen, had a hat trick. In Buffalo, he had three points. I just listed off stats from the last six games. This is what he does. I think the biggest issue for the

Avalanche, and I would say the biggest bright spot for the other teams is if you can hold McKinnon and Renton into only beating you by a goal at five on five or or keeping them deadlocked at five on five uh you can take advantage of Colorado's you know lack the lack of bottom six depth right now just given the amount of injuries that they have and the guys missing from the lineup and and that's how most teams are winning these games right now. But McKinnon, I mean, in terms of his season, it's business as usual.

It's the last five or six years where you almost expect, you know, a goal and an assist, a goal and two assists per night from him, or it seems like an off night for him. And, you know, most of the nights he delivers, he's got 50 points in 32 games, and he's well on his way to 90 plus assists on the season again so the knock on colorado at times has been that they are too top heavy that you know we've heard they're a one-line team um now nachushkin is back and he's on a line with middlestad. How has that line been? That line has been incredible, especially since Ross Colton got back from injury about six

games ago now. That's been the game changer. Ross Colton this season. So in Tampa, Ross Colton was a winger. When the Avs got him, they shifted him to center last year. But Colton this year has played a lot of wing, and that's because of the amount of injuries that the Avalanche had

to their wing core in the beginning of the year. They're missing Druin and Leckan into injuries, and obviously Machushkin was still serving his suspension. So they switched Colton to the wing. He started to produce at five on five, started to produce at the power play, and they've kept him there now. So now with Colton on right wing, produce at the power play, and they've kept him there now. So now with Colton on right wing,

Val on the left wing, and Middlestad at center, that line has something. You know, they've started to come on. Colton scored the other day. Val Natushkin's had,

I want to say, five goals in his last seven or eight games. Middlestad, who was going through a little bit of a rut, has started to pick it up, and you're starting to see these guys

To see Natushkin Go back In 20-21 minutes last year Before his suspension So that line has really come on big For the Avalanche And it's made it easier to forget that Jonathan Drouin has only played 5 games this season

And obviously Landis Gog is still Kind of in limbo with whatever's going on there. So for the Avs to have the ability to switch Colton to the wing, it goes back to the earlier thought where now it seems like their bottom six depth is kind of lacking, but at the same time, having a player like that have the ability to do that and do it well

has really, really helped that second line, especially Casey Middlestead. What is going on with Landis Gog? ability to do that and do it well has really really helped that second line especially uh Casey Middlestead um what is going on with Landis Gogg I I wish I knew a lot of people have been asking I wish we knew you know Jared Bednar had comments the other day where he said he's trending in the right direction and that's about all I could say and and you know I've had avalanche fans in the comment section of every article I've written and the responses of every tweet I've ever put out about Gabe Landeskog, and it's the same every time.

It's why are they so cryptic, and why won't they just come out and say what's wrong? And the answer to both of those questions is because they truly, genuinely don't know what's happening here. I don't think the Avalanche have much information to share other than what they have shared. And I don't usually give teams the benefit of the doubt, especially with injuries. I just think nobody knows when this is going to be ready to go. It's just going to be a situation where one day Landis Cog is able to do

crossovers and is able to skate and take contact and, you know, wake up the next day and not feel pain and not feel like he took a step in the wrong direction. And until that happens, he's not going to play. And that's just kind of been the reality of the Avs since the day they won the Cup. So in light of everything that we've talked about here, the myriad of injuries, poor goaltending and everything else,

the Avs are still 18-14 and 0. They're still in the first of two wildcard spots. Some things have gone right. What has been the response to the job that head coach Jared Bednar has done with this group so far this season? I'm a big believer of Jared Bednar.

I think it speaks volumes that the Avalanche were 0-4, and they were yanking their goalie every night, and their defensive breakdowns, and all the goals against, especially the empty net goals against. They couldn't even solidify a 6-on-5 attack. They've already given up more empty net goals

this year than they did all of last season, and sometimes, to me, that's on the coach a little bit, just given the time that the goalies pulled, and whatever 6-on-five man advantage systems you have. But despite all of that, the fact that there haven't really been much rumors or chatter about should they let go of Jared Bednar just speaks volumes to the guy that he is.

You know, he's working with a lineup that, at times, has been a shell of what it should be. And he's working with a lineup where expected goals would be through the roof and they would score four goals and lose six-four because of the goal he couldn't make a save. So I'm willing to give Jared the benefit of the doubt this year for just how things have unfolded, knowing very well that with goaltending a little bit settled here and with guys coming back healthy,

it's time for the Avalanche to play a better system all around. But it's just been really tough just given, again, it goes back to the, it goes back to the bottom six depth. It goes back to the defenseman at the bottom of the lineup. Since they traded Bowen Byram, since Jack Johnson walked, it just kind of looks like a lot of the newer players that have come in and play those bottom six roles just haven't gelled as well as guys in the past did in Bednar's system.

And the guys in the past are not by any means all-stars. They're just guys that fit better for what the team was doing. So I would say it's up to him now with goaltending and with a near healthy lineup to get those guys going. But if you ask me, I'm a firm believer of Jared Bednar. I don't see any reason why he should lose his job, not now, not anytime soon. And I think he's done great, you know, given the fact that the Avalanche have given up 111 goals in 32 games,

that they are, like you said, 18 and 14 and trending in the right direction, five and two in their last seven. So obviously the most important question we've saved for last, what do you think of Jared Bednar's hair? And is it too long? Is it causing problems in the room? Is it good? Is it bad?

Where are you on Bednar's hair? Because I liked it more when it was a little tighter. It was a little tighter cut. I think he's having a little more fun with it, just given the amount of times he gets asked about it each season, which you'd be surprised is more than three times. So it does happen. I remember in the 2022 season when it was, you know, coming out of COVID and all the press conferences were, you know, in one room, players, coaches, all of that.

He started with the short hair and as the season went on, it became longer and longer and longer and he wasn't cutting it. And then when the playoffs began, he cut his hair and the avalanche went on and won a cup. And I think he tried that again in 2023 and it didn't work. So the 2024 postseason, he let the hair flow. They won a playoff round. They beat the Winnipeg Jets and it just stayed the same coming into training camp. So I think now, as much as he's been confused about his goaltending, he's confused about what the heck to do with the hair

and it just seems like he still hasn't figured it out. Arif, this was great, man. You're very good at this. Thanks for taking the time to do this. We really appreciate it. Enjoy the game tonight. It should be a good one. I'm sure we'll catch up later on in the season.

Sounds good. I appreciate you guys having me on. Thanks for coming on, man. We appreciate it. That's Arif Dean from Colorado Hockey Now here on the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. A reminder, tonight, 7.30, note the start time from Rogers Arena.

It's the Canucks and the Avs. I just want to go back real quick. 7.30. I know it's late. Is it 7.30? We're going to be up late tonight, guys. We're going to be up late tonight, guys. Late night tonight. Giants game was later on the weekend. I want to go back to one thing about the Whitecaps conversation we were having earlier, because I don't think I did a tremendous job of framing what I was talking about especially since i kind of just took a thing that

pete threw out on twitter right so um the notion of a savior buyer coming in and it being like maybe one of those low large global sporting. The chances of it happening are next to nil. The reason I brought it up was it is one of the few ways that I actually see the team staying in Vancouver. That was the point I was trying to make that I didn't really make very well was that it feels to me that it's kind of grim that this call it pie in the sky or you're asking for some hail marys right now right like i i understand that it's happened before and the possibility exists but

it's also like the possibility of anything existing there needs to be percentage chances on it and i know that you were quick to shoot it down and like rightly so. I get that part of it, that it doesn't make a lot of sense for a lot of different reasons. My entire premise behind it was to kind of illustrate how I'm feeling about it, which is worried and skeptical. Because if you look at it just... Why do those teams have... I'm honestly asking, I don't know.

Why do they have those teams? Why does Man City have a connection with... NYCFC? Yeah, I always have that. I'm like, NYCFC. Okay, yeah. I'd say it's a multifaceted endeavor. There's the branding part of it, for sure,

is to have a foothold in North America. They do share players. So they do share players? Yeah, they have in the past. Okay. Now, not with City. It's not like you're sending like Holland and De Bruyne. Go play a couple games against Red Bulls.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, it doesn't happen like that, but they have shared players in the past. I think... Is it a money-making venture, though? It can be. It is, though. Like, ultimately, that's what it is, right?

But it wouldn't be here because you would be buying... So if you're Aston Villa, okay? So Pete has brought up Aston Villa. That's his it is right here because you would be so so if you're aston villa okay like so pete has brought up aston villa that's his team right what would be in it for aston villa to spend half a billion dollars on buying the white caps and keeping them in vancouver that's the thing is when i think villa has previously gone down this road before exploratory but they were talking about an expansion team in mls not buying something that existed yeah that's the issue with no no but like so no no people what's in it for them you know it's easy to say it's a turnkey operation it'd be easier it's like yeah but you're still investing half a billion dollars there's a lot of money

there's not much in it other than the fact that it would be less money than buying an expansion team and building your own arena if you want to go that route is that instead of a billion dollars, it would be 500 million. And you'd say, it's going to be a billion dollars for an expansion team and building a stadium. I think it's going to be the same as buying the white caps and then you just move them.

Right? No, what I'm saying, you said, what would be the difference? The difference would be if you were to start an expansion team and you'd need to build an arena, you need to do both.

That's it. And I'm like, again, this goes back to my original point which is you don't have to build the stadium but it's a terrible lease deal for the team right you don't have to build but you don't have to build the state yeah okay yeah you don't have to build you don't have you just have to have one of the worst tenancy agreements in north american sports and that is a it's been a huge issue and you know what when we talked about it on a day-to-day basis

or incident to incident basis i think maybe we could have taken a step back and been like how much longer can you keep doing this how much longer is anyone going to be well we'll just keep entering into this not great relationship there i say say dysfunctional, right? Cause you got to remember when that motocross thing happened in a vacuum, it wasn't that big of a deal, but it was reflective of how awkward the relationship was. And it was a bad look for MLS. I like the word emblematic. Yeah.

But it's emblematic of the problems that you have when you don't control your stadium. But it's the best way to describe it. Cause it was, you know, like a one-off it's like, well, whatever they went down to Portland and they won anyway. And it's the best way to describe it, because it was. Yeah. You know, like, a one-off, it's like, well, whatever.

They went down to Portland, and they won anyway, and it's a funny little anecdote at the end of the season. And no one cares, because it's two Pacific Northwest teams anyway. But MLS looked at that and was like, this is not a good thing. We don't have another franchise in our league that has that kind of issue, that can't host a home playoff game, because the building had already been rented out for motorbikes. It is sort of a garage league incident.

And MLS, at the same time, is dealing with huge multinational groups and big ownership stakes and Apple and Lionel Messi. And they're trying to grow to a level that, as you've said on a number of occasions, might have just passed the white caps by. I threw up a poll question on X, formerly known as Twitter. And I guess a lot of people, actually, I should have clarified this because this was an idea that Elliott Friedman floated on the 32 Thoughts podcast, and it was Elliott Friedman, not me,

throwing out the question of Elias Pettersson to Buffalo for Dylan Cousins and Bowen Byram. Who says no? So I threw this question up on Twitter in a poll question I said PD for cousins and Byram two options were hell yes and hell no hell no is winning but not by a huge margin a lot of votes 58% for

hell no 52% for hell no, 52% for hell yes, which I think goes to show there is a real difference in opinion. And some of the texts we're getting into the Dunbar-Lumber text line are, it's like the United States so far as polarization, right? You're the one that put the poll answers as hell yes and hell no. That's the way to do it. That's true.

You gotta... Where's the middle ground answer? There's no middle ground. I need the... Just wait till something happens in net tonight and we come back tomorrow and do the goalie controversy. Demko, hell yes.

Lankanen, hell yes. Like which one do you go for? All the old favorites. I'm pretty excited about it. Okay, we do have a lot more to get into on the program speaking of goaltending Kevin Woodley is going to

join us next you're listening to the Halford and Brough show on Sportsnet 650