Happy Sad Confused - Adam McKay

Episode Date: December 19, 2018

He's a founding member of the Upright Citizens Brigade, a former head writer for Saturday Night Live, and an Oscar winning filmmaker behind everything from "Anchorman" and "Step-Brothers" to "The Big Short"! Adam McKay joins Josh on this episode of "Happy Sad Confused" to discuss his new Dick Cheney biopic, "Vice", the comic book character he'd love to tackle, and much more.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Eligibility restrictions apply. See Golden Nugget Casino. dot com for details please play responsibly today on happy say i confused adam mackay combines comedy and drama in the new dick cheney biopic vice hey guys i'm josh harrowitz welcome to another edition of happy sad confused welcome to a very fun conversation with a filmmaker and writer that i very much admire. Adam McKay is the guest on Happy, Say I Confused today, his very first visit to the podcast. And as I said, his new film that's getting a ton of attention, and as it should, it's one of my favorites of the year. It is the Christian Bale, yes, Christian Bale as Dick Cheney biopic called Vice. Much like Adam McKay's last film, The Big Short, Vice,

treads that line between comedy and drama in a way that really only Adam McKay is operating in nowadays. It has an amazing ensemble of actors in it behind Christian Bales' revelatory transformation are the likes of Amy Adams and Steve Carell and Sam Rockwell and that's just the tip of the iceberg.

Virtually every actor, every character that pops up in this film is played by a great talent. It's a super entertaining and disturbing film. I mean, it's by turns funny and tragic and frustrating. And it is one of my favorites, as I said, of the year. And at the very least, you cannot deny the power of Christian B. B. B. Adams is similarly fantastic as Lynn Cheney.

Well worth your time. Vice comes out, Christmas Day. Fun for the whole family. But no, I do highly recommend it. And it was a real, real treat to have Adam on the podcast. He's somebody I wanted to have on the show a long while because I greatly respect his contributions as a filmmaker and as a writer. This guy, if you talk to anybody in comedy the last 20, 25 years,

he is at or near the top of the list. He was a master, improv, a founding member of the UCB, Upright Citizens Brigade, went on to become a headwriter at Saturday Night Live, started directing shorts there, some of which are some of my favorites. I mentioned the procedure, which is one that he did starring Will Ferrell and Willem Defoe. I highly recommend that one. You can just Google that one, and it'll pop up. But then he went on to start directing his own features, and they're some of the classics, classic comedies of our times. I mean, Anchorman, Stepbrothers, And then, you know, Talladega Nights, the other guys, Anchorman 2, he's really made some of the funniest content I can think of on a big screen in the last couple decades.

And he is no surprise, similarly funny and irreverent in person. And this is a great conversation. He's very open about the new film Vice, but also about his collaborations with Will Ferrell, some of the scripts that have or haven't been produced some of the background of what it was like to make Anchorman his first feature and then how much free reign he was given on that. Some of the techniques he employs as a director, his contribution to Ant Man. He was a writer on the Ant Man film and his interest in making a comic book movie. There's some real interesting stuff here about the comic book character that he would still like to direct in a feature film. It might surprise you. It is a very

famous Marvel character that has not gotten a solo film as of yet. Stay tuned for the answer to that question. There's a lot here to enjoy. If you're a comedy fan, if you're a fan of S&L, if you're a fan of the works of Will Ferrell and Adam McKay, this one's for you. As always, remember to review, rate and subscribe. Happy Say I Confused is the podcast you're listening to

in case you just stumbled into a strange podcast, another region. Thank you for tuning in. always and I hope you guys enjoy this one. I believe this is going to be our last of 2018. It's been quite a year. We've already got a bunch of great guests that have been banked for early 2019. I'm excited to share those with you. But I think we're ending on a really special note with one of my favorites of the year, Vice and its director, Adam McKay. Hope you guys enjoy. Should we just launch in?

Let's do it. Mr. McKay. Thanks for coming by today. You don't want me to sing the national anthem? Oh, yeah. Obviously, as you know, on Happy Second Feud's our podcast, we start with a song of your choice. Okay. Adam, what are you singing for us today?

I sing, I sing, uh, venture highway, money. No, I don't know. I don't know either. I don't know the words either. It's either that or the national anthem. But thanks for having me, man. No, I'm, I'm always been such a fan. of your work. I love this new film. Vice is what we're going to be talking about in part today

as well as your esteemed career, sir. Wow. It is. It's esteemed. Don't you feel esteem in this juncture in your life? Has it gotten at that point? I think so. You've made it. I think it's steamy. I don't know if it's esteemed yet. When you're in a windowless room doing podcasts supporting a film, you know you've made it. I don't think it's a spoiler to, is it a spoiler to mention the very last line in Vice, the one that runs in the credits that I No, no, no, no. That I absolutely adore. No, you're a safe on that.

I want to get it right. I can't wait to see the new Fast and Furious movie. That looks lit. And that is the response that elicits in me every time. I've seen the film twice now. It kind of sums up a lot of what we're dealing with in 2018, going into 2019. How many different versions of that one did you have? That was a one shot.

That actress made me laugh. And I just said, say that line. And Greg Frazier, our DP, was right over her shoulder. So we got one take where she said it. And then at the very end of the cut, when we were like Capri cutting the movie, I was like, let's put that in. And it just made us laugh. Does it speak to you like something like, I mean, obviously, you know, your career has kind of evolved where, you know, the early films were more sensibly sheer pure entertainment.

And then it did evolve in films like the other guys, et cetera. you can certainly see you're talking about some important issues. Do you feel like in 2018, 2019, with the world on fire, we're not able to kind of make pure entertainment anymore? Do you feel like you can't? Yeah, it's kind of tricky, right? I mean, God, I keep telling people, man, we had fun making those comedies in the early 2000s, but I don't know, it just feels crazy at this point. It gets to the degree of fiddling while Rome burns. So we just kind of adjust. adjusted to what the world was doing. I mean, the nice thing is we still can joke around.

I mean, there's still some funny stuff in Vice. There's still very funny stuff in the Big Short, but yeah, the world is very strange right now. So it's, you know, God bless Anchorman and Talladega Nights, but yeah, we had to change. Are these last couple films a little more satisfying in some way? Are you getting something different out of the experience on the Big Short and Vice? What I love about it, I love, you know, comedy is, obviously really hard. Like when you're writing comedy,

every line is kind of brutalized. Every line is being like sharpened, almost like a weapon. And when you're shooting, you're like every line is kind of, and what I love about writing stuff that's sometimes funny, but dramatic is there's just a lot of different directions you can go.

There's different feelings you can play with. There's different styles. And so it definitely opens up a wider range. I mean, I come from a theater improvisational background in Chicago. And that's what we always worked on. I mean, Del Close used to always say, you don't have to be funny. Like, he's like, aim for art.

If you miss, you'll hit comedy. Yeah. But he's like, if you aim for comedy and you miss, good Lord, I don't know what you're hitting. So in these last couple movies, I've gotten to do that a lot more. And it's been very enjoyable. Okay, this is going to be the first of many, many digressions. If you'll indulge me, you mentioned Del Close. I'm fascinated by him

I mean all I know of him is like the stories and his like role in the untouchables He had that small role in there Some of like the war about him He wasn't like the easiest guy to work with What was your experience with Del? Oh he was tough man He was the king of improv

He's the guy that really created it all Absolutely he created long form improv I mean improvisation was around We know you know Viola Spolin Second City Everyone always thought it was kind of a tool that you would use to generate scenes. And he was the first guy to go, no, no, no, there's something here. This can be a performance art. Yeah. And so he worked with a group called

the committee, which is actually in a movie called Billy Jack. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know if he was directing him at that point, but he was one of the first guys to go, no, I think I can get eight, nine, 10 people on stage improvising and have it work. Right. So by the time I rolled into Chicago, which was 1990, he had really done some good work on it. He had worked with a guy named Dave Pasquoisey and a bunch of really talented people, Mike Myers. And so it was starting to kind of have a nice form to it. And I had never experienced anything like it.

I mean, basically it's an improvised play with certain rules and kind of forms in it. But his big thing, even though he was a guy who taught all these great comics, I mean, the list goes on and on, like Bill Murray, Gilda Radner, Dan Ack, Chris Farley on and on and on. He also believed in the idea that you didn't have to always be funny. He believed that like if it was interesting, if it was cool, if it was honest, all those things were equally as good. So in a way with what I'm doing now, I get to kind of explore those other aspects.

Yeah. You got into directing, like you were, so, you know, again, jumping around a bit, you're at SNL, your head writer. and from what I gather having been there a few years you want to do more you want to try out some new stuff and they let you start to direct shorts

is that correct? I mean do you just feel like you needed to explore something new? Yeah, I'd been head writer for three years it was an incredible experience, very challenging but great and I was going to move on and I told my manager, Jimmy Miller I was like alright I think I'm ready to move on I want to do my own shows I want to do my own stuff

and he goes you know if you're going to to leave you might as well make a crazy demand and I go what do you mean he goes he might as well ask for like what would it take for you to stay right so I said okay it would take double the pay I'm getting now I get to name my credit and I get to direct short films and I don't ever have to be in any production meetings ever I need a unicorn in my dressing room exactly and Miller came back the next day he goes, Lauren said yes. Amazing. And so my credit for those last two years, I was coordinator of falconry.

And I directed short films. I directed stuff on 16 mill and digital. And that's kind of how I learned to direct, although I had directed theater and I knew about directing and obviously had written screenplays and knew about film. But really, the first time I got like a crew was those last. last two years, so much fun. Past two years. I'm obsessed with some of those shorts.

I mean, I had William Defoe in here last year, and all I wanted to do was talk to him about the procedure. And with all due respect, I think he was like, that's cool, but let's talk about the Florida Project. By the way, I don't think the procedure ever aired. That's what he said, too. I didn't realize that. I don't think it aired.

I mean, here's the thing about those shorts. They were really unusual. They were very ambitious. and not sure Lorne loved them and he was regretting his sweet the sweet deal you got I think he was

so I think about half of them aired and that one didn't and it's funny because that's one of the best ones I made and oh I love that one and yeah a lot of them did not air I've been privileged enough

to be on two of your sets I was on other guys and the second Anchorman film so I've seen how you work if you call it work whatever that is No, but I mean, and people have talked about this. Like, and I, from what I gather, it's a little bit different on the recent films.

But I'm curious sort of like how you was like the methodology that you created, just sort of something on the fly that you figured out. And I'm talking about things like, you know, for certain scenes, you'll get on the bullhorn and shout out whines, et cetera, and alts. Was that something that came from the comedy, the improv background, or was it just something that felt something you'd seen others do or what? no that was something that just came out of like will and i basically will and i like the first anchorman movie felt like a joke that we even got to make it like the entire time we were

there with all that professional equipment we kept laughing that how is this possible that we're us two guys are getting to do this so kind of in that exuberance uh when we would be doing scenes i would just you know and will was cool with it i would just say hey occasionally i'm going to yell out jokes and then it kind of spun because some of the other actors like Paul Rudd and Kekner were like hey give me some lines too and all of a sudden it became this thing where like you know we would do a couple takes as written and then I would just yell stuff out and it was really fun and the great thing with film is like you get the alt and if it works it works if it doesn't you don't use it so one of the perfect examples of it was on the other guys we had a

uh sam jackson in a car against a green screen and uh he was in there and i was like hey sam try yelling this and he was like nope and the whole crew like froze and was like we haven't heard anyone say this to him before to the director and i went sam don't worry if it's no good i won't use it and there was a long pause and he was like what was the line again and i gave him the line and he did it And then from then on, he was addicted to it. From then on, he was like, give me another line. I have a line. Let's try this.

I have a line. He was like, oh, my God, this is the funnest thing ever. And that's usually what happens. People usually catch it. And they're like, oh, my God, this is awesome. Are actors now prepped? Hopefully by the time they step on your set and they haven't worked with you before, they know the drill because you don't want the bad version of that Sam Jackson experience over and over.

No, no, I always tell them. I always say, I have a mic. I'm going to yell some, you know, I won't yell it. I'll be gentle in the way I say it in the mic. And the thing I tell them is like, you know, if it doesn't work, I'm not going to use it. And I don't think there's ever been anyone who's complained about it. But, you know, some actors, if he mess with their process when they're in character. So Christian Bale was a guy, definitely when I worked with that I was like, Christian,

I know you're very deep in character. There might be times. I might say something off camera. Are you okay with that? And he was like, yeah, yeah. No, I'm okay with it. And he was. Would Christian fit into that other side of your brain into like the Anchorman universe?

He would love it. He doesn't know it, but he would love it. In fact, I mean, you know, we know that Amy Adams has done it. And she was incredible. She did Talladega Nights and then obviously he's in vice now. And, you know, we've certainly seen Corral. But in a weird way, I think more than anyone, I think Christian and bail will get really addicted to it.

I think he would love it. Yeah. And the thing people don't know about bail is he's a goofball. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's really funny, and he's really lighthearted and easygoing, and he would love it. Yeah. I mean, the thing I'm fascinated about, like, again, from Big Short and Vice, are not really the differences between those two films in your earlier work. It's more the similarities.

Like, I mean, I love the digressions and the bold moves that you make in both of the films. You know, you go a big short and you think of Margot Robbie and Selena Gomez and those kind of like breaking the fourth wall. Was, I guess my question is like, how do you know how far you can take it? Or is it just sort of like, let's try it out. And the worst thing that can happen is in the edit, we're going to throw out these digressions and these flights of fancy. You know, it's kind of like knowing the key that a song is in. Like it's so in the case of, I'm just trying to think of one of the most improvisational scenes in the big short, I think is when you first come into the office and you meet Corel and his gang.

And that was definitely a case where we were improvising. We were thrown around lines. But it was always knowing the key that we're improvising in. We're not improvising in the key of stepbrothers. I mean, it's a much more aggressive, you know, go for it kind of thing. And what's amazing is these actors, man, they're good. They know. And sure enough, a guy like Hamish Link Letter and a guy like Ray Spall,

they get it immediately. They love it. It gives them freedom. And so, yeah, I've never really seen a problem with it. And it's always so much fun. And you know what it does, too? It makes the written stuff better, too. Even the stuff that's scripted, they end up because they feel so loose.

They don't feel handcuffed by it. That stuff plays better. There's a, again, I'm wrestling with, I don't want to, like, ruin kind of like some of the tangents that you go off in this film. But there's something that happens to 45 minutes into the film, basically. in this film, that's one of my favorite choices I think I've seen in a film in quite some time. I would say honestly

one of my favorite things too that we've ever done in a movie, yeah. And it's just it's a commitment to it too. It's just like it's not, again, it's not a 10 second digression choice. It's like it goes and goes and goes and I'm sure audience listeners are frustrated by me dancing around it, but trust me, it'll be worth the wait.

I guess my question is like when you propose something like that to the studio at this point, like do you have final cut on these? Just give me a sense. and sort of like what the what are the conversations what's the trust factor for something like that that is just pretty batch shit crazy if it doesn't it's batch of crazy if it does work too well yeah i definitely have final cut i mean that helps and i've been doing this a long time and they kind know i can do stuff like that so i think there's also just an unspoken agreement that like look

i mean i i also uh test my stuff right you know i put my stuff up in front of crowds which a lot of people don't do so I want to see it work like we weren't making vice to be you know an obscure art film right I want it to play and um and because of that they you know it also scares the crap out of the studio because they get to see all the versions that don't work and uh but at the end of the day when they see it it works you know so so there were definitely moments with the moment you're talking about where it was not working and they were like you should cut that And I was like, no, no, no, it's going to work. It's going to work.

Like, give me a beat here. And so, yeah, the testing tends to kind of like, I like to put it to the final kind of proof. And that's like putting it in front of an audience. And because of that, people relax in the end, the studios. And you did have, I know, a musical number in this. Is that something that just that went through test screenings? Oh, broke my heart. It was, got it almost made it.

It was good. it just was a little too long it didn't fit the tone early in the movie it'll definitely be an extra when the movie comes out and it's really well done but yeah it just didn't work I'm curious like in an approach of a biopic of sorts

whatever we call this and I guess my question is about like what a biopic even means nowadays like for folks like you and I who've just like seen dozens of these kinds of films like I grew up with like Oliver Stone and Nixon, which I loved at the time. And I thought, I don't know if, like, that works nowadays. Like, I think some, some, like, film geeks like myself, like, I'll say it, like,

Bohemian Rhapsody didn't work for me because I'd seen, like, that template too many times. I think the first one was the Buddy Holly story. Do you remember that? Yeah, yeah, Gary Busey. That was the first one where that template, people were like, oh, my God, what is this? And everyone went crazy for it, and then they repeated it 680 times after that. Yeah, like, great. great balls of fire and like yeah yeah so what's so what can't is part of the reason for the approach

of something like this that the conventional treatment just doesn't work for both yourself and for a modern audience i mean it's kind of both i think the other part is you know if you know comparing it to bohemian rhapsody your moments where the guys reaching his high points are like rock concerts and like this soaring voice for Dick Cheney. His high points are like quiet bureaucratic genius. You know, like back office hallways. I mean, the very nature of Dick Cheney's story is one of which he never wanted a movie made about himself.

Everything he did in his life was designed so that there was no movie made about him. So, yeah, I think we're messing with. the biopic format, but I think we're also trying to highlight, you know, this sense of government that I think for a lot of people, the idea of politics and government has been sold to us as kind of a bore. And, you know, nothing can be further from the truth. It's representative government. It's like the throne. It's literally the heart of Shakespeare that we're talking about. And so it's a mixture of both. That biopic structure is a little tired. And then at the same time, yeah, Cheney. was trying to make things look boring I'm trying to remember what S&L's treatment of Cheney was back in your tenure. What was the joke of Cheney?

What was the key in generally to many? I think honestly, I think I wrote most of the Cheney stuff back then because I was fascinated by him. He was not a big character. It was mostly Will-doing Bush. And I remember the one cold open I wrote was

right after W. Bush won. And it was just like, and now a word from your new president of the United States and it came up on Cheney like hello and the joke was if you make less than a million dollars a year you're probably going to want to turn the channel right now this isn't going to relate to you and so he was always kind of the cold professional but there wasn't a lot of cheney stuff and once again it's just his personality didn't take to the TV it was uh he was a guy who didn't want to be a celebrity there was nothing about him that fit with that knowing having been part of, you know, sunk your brain into his life for a couple years now, knowing what

you think you do of him? Do you think he's the kind of person that will, like, in the dead of night order this on demand? Like, is he going to watch this? Or is he the kind of person that will just be able to let go by? So I heard the greatest story. So I had a friend who had a relative, who was one of his secret service during his years as VP. And he told me, and this is obviously off the record, you know, not official, but whatever. It's ultimately pretty harmless story. And he said it was like two in the morning and his relative gets a little buzz in his ear and he's outside the naval observatory, I think is where the vice president lives. And they're like, you know, we have a light on in the southwest room. And like, I'll check it out. And he goes up and

there's a light on and he looks in the window. And he sees Cheney there with a giant plate in his lap with just a fantastic looking sandwich and he looks and cheney is watching the godfather and he is like uh it's uh v potis angler is watching tv don't worry about it but then he says this happens like five or six times over the next three months and the food changes but it's always the godfather that he's watching yeah and weirdly it's always godfather three who does that Isn't that amazing? That's fascinating. So I think he will watch it.

I really do. I think he's very interested in his own legacy and power. And yeah, I think he will. And by the way, I think for the most part, he'll be okay with it. I don't think his wife will. I don't think Liz Cheney will, but I think he'll be okay with it. At the same time, you portray her as the, you know, without her, there would be no. Yeah.

I mean, he would not have risen the power. She was the first brains in the operation, it would seem. Oh, yeah. She's the first act of the movie. There's no question, but she's also a, you know, a fiery, fiery woman. I, you know, I'm still, she'd still love to throw a pool ball at my head if she could. I mean, there's a lot of, there's been a lot of talk since our world swung off its access a couple years ago in terms of like how, you know, again, we talked about sort of entertainment in the, these times, but how like late night comedy deals with this stuff and how S&L deals with

this stuff. If you were at S&L, what do you, how would you be like writing about these times? God, what would you be doing? I don't know, man. I mean, I know what they are doing. I don't know what I would be doing. I would, I would honestly, I would have a cold open where it's, you know, Baldwin playing Trump, but he just walks off the set. And like, I would, like, is walking through the crowd and like I would almost obey no rules and I would have him like almost break character and like talk to it's so insane right now I just don't understand how you deal with it I mean they do a fine fine job but I kind of like the idea that he would not stay on the set that he would just walk around the studio wherever he wanted to that's not a bad idea

um yeah I don't know what I would do with is your how much comedy do you consume now Like, are you a voracious consumer of all media, of a lot of comedy? Like, what do you, what goes into your brain now? You know, what's ridiculous is I'm a huge NBA fan. Yeah. So I watch tons of NBA, and I listen to tons of NBA. So I listen to a lot of, like, The Ringer NBA podcast. I love Dan Lebitard is one of my favorites out there.

I'm actually, oddly, a big sports fan. And then I also watch Chris Hayes. I like a lot. And I'll still watch comedy. I'll watch like every fourth S&L. I'll watch like every fourth John Oliver. There's kind of not that definitive standup out there right now. Like about four.

Oh, no, that's not true. John Mullaney's last special, I inhaled. I just thought that was his, in fact, that's the best bit about Donald Trump that's been done so far. Right. Is the horse loose in the hospital bit. John Mullaney did. I would put that number one of all the comedy bits that have been done. And I think he's the one I would really look at that maybe could crack some of the stuff that's going on. But I also think

comedy is kind of reloading. I think comedy is trying to figure out what's going on because, you know, as you said, the world is on fire. The world is just in a state of insanity right now. So comedy is really trying to figure out what's going on. And I know you're very outspoken as I appreciate on the environmental from my wife works for the NRDC so oh does she god bless her god bless her a big supporter uh same here yeah obviously they're they're doing what they can in these times i mean is and you've talked i think recently about tackling that subject in in in your art too do you have a comedic version of day after tomorrow in your laptop right now what do you what do you got oh it's such a bummer man it's it's just it's common man it's reality it's a big

ball of reality rolling across the horizon line global warming is way worse than anyone thinks it is it's coming it's getting worse faster than we think it is and i would so much rather go do a basketball movie right now but like i just feel like in 25 years my kids would look at me like you did a basketball movie like we're living in games and you have this we're like wearing spf clothing and like And you did a movie about, you know... A monkey that joined a basketball. Exactly. By the way, that would work.

And so, yeah, I don't think we have much of a choice, man. I think it's... I'm trying to figure one out that's not, you know, so... But holy crap, man. I mean, your wife works in it. She knows. This ain't no joke. I mean, people think, like, oh, that's a left-wing subject.

Oh, that's something some people talk about. No. It's, you know, the data, the metric, everything is rock solid. Like, this thing is barreling down on us. So, yeah, I'm trying to figure out a way to do it for sure. Yeah, and the horrifying thing is, I mean, it's not a problem until it's a problem. And there are problems. And we see it every day.

But, like, it feels like inevitably it's going to be something catastrophic that's going to be the thing that makes us up. My friend Kevin Messick, who's a producer on the movie, his entire neighborhood burned down, except like in a circle in the middle of it, his house somehow, didn't burn down. And then we were up in San Francisco mixing the movie and we went to leave. And I swear to God, the smoke was so thick. Our eyes were watering. Our lungs were burning. And, oh, it's coming.

It's coming. Okay, let's shift gears. Let's go frivolous. Let's go back through the directing career. I like it a little bit. I like it. I like, it's interesting. So I had stiller in here recently and we were talking about, he, I,

I feel like he had mixed feelings about going back and doing Zoolander, too, post that. I mean, like, he had been asked about that for, like, 15 years, and then he delivered it, and the world didn't want it. And he was like, I think he's still, like, sorting through that. So I'm curious to someone who kind of dealt with that, too. I mean, Anchorman, too, did very well. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But we had a little bit of that, too.

But there was a bit of that, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm just curious, like, and you, I'm sure you wrestle with that, too, because, like, every day, I'm sure somebody, like me or on the street says stepbrothers, too. Constantly. I mean, Anchorman 2, from the year after Anchorman came out, nonstop, Anchorman 2, Anchorman 2, Anchorman 2, Anchorman 2. And then we made the movie and we actually, like, doubled the original box office. We got better reviews.

I actually think the middle 40 minutes of that movie is as funny as anything we've ever done. And people are still like, eh. And I think what we really learn was, you know, so much of comedy is surprise. You know, it's so much of it is the newness of it. where the heck did these characters come from? So after kind of realizing that, I still love that movie, but no, I shouldn't say, no, we're not going to do Step Brothers, too, because if there is a great idea or there is the right moment, we would, and maybe it's somehow Dale and Brennan figure out how to separate CO2

as an inert gas from the atmosphere and save mankind through global warming. Kill two birds. Maybe that's it. Were you guys working on like an album at some point? Wasn't there like going to be like some kind of album? We had like five rap songs written. We were going to record it. And then we all just, you know, saw a bird in the distance.

It got distracted. And that was basically it. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's still, I mean, it's funny because we're getting on vice. We're getting very, really fantastically polarized responses. We're getting some that are like, this is the greatest movie ever made. And some like, I hate this movie.

And the last time I experienced this was stepbrothers. Step brothers was like, this is the greatest comedy ever made. This is the worst comedy ever made. So I'm kind of actually, because I started in comedy, reviews don't bother me. So I kind of love it when that happens. But we have been thinking about, yeah, how would you ever do stepbrothers too? And Farrow and I still kick it around. But if you could tie it into global warming, maybe, although that feels sweaty.

I'm saying it out loud. That's a terrible idea. The writer's room has closed for some brothers, too. What I also love for something like Anchorman is that Ron lives in different forms. Like Ron Burgundy, whether it's like at a rally for a cause or now there's a podcast, like you've kind of like made the Anchorman's cinematic universe, which is maybe like a smarter way to go than to kind of like have to do another movie every five years. And that character works in different forms.

I'm curious, like, Brick certainly has his limitations, I suppose. Sure. Have you ever explored or thought about anything else for any of the other characters in Anchorman? Well, I would question that premise. Does Brick have his limitations? I'm not sure he does. I'm obsessed. But I'm not sure he does. And, you know, some people have been drawing the connection between Brick and Donald Rumsfeld working in the Bush administration and vice. Right. Isn't that the post-mortem on Brick? What happens to Brick? Yeah, we actually do say that. And the first one, yeah, that he goes and works in the Bush. White House. Yeah, I don't know. I kind of love the idea that you can do sequels to these things by doing podcasts, comic books, animated. Like, that actually may be a cooler way to do it. And maybe that's the way Step Brothers 2 comes back. Or maybe like Step – I actually like this idea. Maybe like Step Brothers 2 is like a written fictional podcast. And it's like six episodes. And it's Riley, Farrell, and I, and we write the whole thing out. And we get Jenkins and Steam. Lower stakes, get in a room. Right? And it's like a treat if you're into it.

But, you know, if you feel like, ah, the surprise isn't there, who cares? You haven't ruined someone's childhood again. We also owe you thanks for giving us the comic mastermind that is Mark Wahlberg, who I've, I've reaped some of the benefits from that. I've done some crazy shit with him over the years. How did you know that he was going to work in that context? Was that just a leap of faith? That was a dinner. That was a dinner.

occasionally those Hollywood dinners actually work. The famed Hollywood dinners. Most of the time I dodge them like crazy. I don't want the lunches, the dinners. You should meet him. You'd get along. Exactly.

And we were like, all right. No, no. Actually, in that case, we wanted it. Farrell and I were like, you know, I think there's something to the idea of you and him. And I think we push for the dinner. And then we had like an Italian meal. And the dynamic between the two of them was just

so interesting because he's such a, you know, street tough guy. And Farrell's such an affable Irvine kind of guy. And, uh, we walked away going, you guys have to do a movie. That energy between the two of you cracked me up. I was like, Farrell, I'm telling you, that's the funniest thing I've ever seen. You guys, you guys like got along great. Yeah. But at the same time, we're incredibly awkward. It was a perfect combination. So you mentioned him. You talk about someone like bail. Is there anybody on the wish list of someone that you'd like to kind of fuck with their image a little bit and put them in a bit of a different context that you feel like has not been exploited yet? You know, the guy that we've tried for years to get in movies. And I think like

every comedy we did, we would call his Giamatti. Oh my God, we wanted him so badly. Just built for what we do. The problem with Giamatti is he works. I was going to say he does five features a year. Constantly. Constantly. And every time, I mean, I mean, we would write roles for him in movies, and I would be doing an impersonation of Giamatti while we're writing the role. Like, that was a big guy that we really wanted. There's a bunch of them out there.

I mean, Gossling's another guy that just, he could rip it in a comedy comedy. I mean, we already know he's really funny. Yeah, the closest has been. Shane did a bit of that in the nice guys. Oh, my God, he's so good in the nice guys. And a little bit, he's pretty damn funny in the big short, too. I mean, he really gets into comedy land in that.

But that guy is big time funny. So those would be the two would be Giamatti and Gosling. You don't bother calling Daniel Day Lewis's rep at this point. Oh, my God. And, you know, the other one is Amy Adams, too. Well, you... I mean, we already got to work with her, but man, she's funny. And just even in Vice, which is not really a funny role.

I mean, it's kind of an angsty, powerful role that she's playing, that she knocks out of the park. But, God, she is good. Yeah, she'd be another one. Next on the list of random questions. You're one of the rare directors that have directed Kanye West. What's it like to direct Kanye? I did. I directed him for a couple lines.

This is the Anchorman sequel, of course. He sat next to me during Anchorman 2 when I was at the monitor, and he fell asleep for like 35 minutes. And there's actually a photo out there of me directing with Kanye West with like his head tilted to the side just a little. sleep. He was lovely. He was nothing but nice. He's a huge comedy fan. And then the other thing he did was he kept telling me about a new rap he was working on. I was like, oh, that's cool. And then eventually he performed it for me, like six inches away from my face. And I was like, this is

incredibly awesome and kind of awkward. Did you do a slow clap three inches from his face? Yeah, I was like, dude, that's good. We're really close to each other right now. Nice hook. What do I say? And his wife was there who, by the way, lovely, couldn't have been a nicer person. So the whole experience was great. And I was shocked by like what a massive comedy fan he is. Like he really knows comedy.

Yeah. I can't remember the sequence of events. A big short, a few years back. It also was around the same time that you contributed to Ant Man. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Was that a choice? Because like, I mean, did you turn down directing Antman?

it sounded like you had that opportunity. Basically, yeah. Yeah, I'm friends with Edgar Wright. It felt a little weird to step in his shoes in that case. And Fagie at Marvel was totally cool, totally got it. At the same time, I just said, oh, my God, I grew up on Marvel, man. I want to do something over here. So I was like...

There's a way to... Yeah, I said, why don't I do the rewrite with Rudd? Right. That way I can respect Wright, Edgar, and help out my buddy Paul with the rewrite. So it ended up being a perfect situation. Rudd and I hold up in a hotel room for like three months. We wrote the movie and just had a blast. And I got to say, I really enjoyed working with Faggy Man.

I mean, there's a reason that thing is clicking. That guy has good taste. And like we wrote this section where Ant Man fights one of the Avengers. And I was like, Kevin, I wrote this crazy thing where one of the guy, you probably won't want to do it. And he was like, well, let me read it. And he read it was like, that's awesome. We're doing it. And he just had that sense about.

them. And yeah, what a fun world over there. I would definitely go back there and work. I definitely, that was a career highlight. And then I got a big giant Ant Man poster signed by Stan Lee out of it. So basically the end. That's it. Mike drop. Have they not asked you? I bet you're on a short list for Guardians three. If I had to guess. We've talked a little bit. Yeah. I mean, we were kicking around the idea of the inhumans at one point. No, we're always kind of talking. I think Fagie's just the greatest, and I think what they're doing over there is amazing.

Is there a character growing up that would be tough for you to say no to, something that they have or haven't explored yet? That's interesting. I mean, I remember the very first character, and there's a weird one when I was like in fourth or fifth grade. I got a Nova of all people, and I think they are kicking around a Nova idea. Silver Surfer is the one I want to do, man.

that would do anything to do Silver Surfer because visually that would just be like you could do what the Washowski's did with Speed Racer with the Silver Surfer. Yet at the same time there's a great emotional story in there man where the guy has to make

the choice to save his planet and the you know Norn Rad like has to like save his planet that that would be the one but I think Fox owns the rights. I don't think it's all together now no it's altogether. Is it? Is that melded? Yeah they I think a fantastic that universe is now coming back

into Disney now. All right. Maybe I'll call Emma Watts. I'll call Kevin Feige. I think you've just created this Silver Surfer movie. I think after Dick Cheney and economic collapse, maybe I need a little break. I feel like there's some environmental themes you could weave into a Silver Surfer story.

That damn global warming. Speaking of topical scripts and story ideas, didn't you have like a border agent's comedy you and Will we're going to do at one point? Yeah, we're kicking that around still. It's called The Last Patriots, and it's basically Farrell and John C. Riley go down to the border to build the wall on their own because it's not happening. So that's another one we're kicking around.

And then we have a script with the great Vanessa Taylor. She's writing for Jennifer Lawrence called Bad Blood with John Kerry, his book. That's a really good one, too. So there's some stuff floating around. Bad Blood's definitely high on the list. Last Patriots up there. I mean, the fun thing now with our production company kind of clicking is that you can get some of this stuff and you can write the script and maybe not direct or you can direct without redlock in the case of Vanessa Taylor writing it. So one of my favorite projects I've gotten to work on in the last forever is Succession.

And that was a case where, oh, love that show. And I didn't have to write it like Jesse Armstrong wrote it, but I got to direct the pilot. And so there's more and more of that going on. and we have a lot more projects cooking at Sanchez right now. There's some really cool stuff that we're bringing up, as once again the world gets crazier and crazier. What's the best script you've ever written that's never been produced, the one that's still in the world that you feel like?

That's a good question. I wrote a script for Jay Roach called Utopia Street, and it was the story of a weird kind of goony, loudmouth guy who turned this little neighborhood cul-de-sac into utopia. And it was the story of Ben Stiller or someone like that who was like, leave me alone, get away from me.

But he really did turn the street into like a utopian, perfect world. And it was all about like society and like privacy and like kind of entertainment. It was the weirdest, coolest script. And they almost made it. There was a moment,

this is like 10 years ago. And it was going to be Jim Carrey and Will Farrell. And I remember they were like, it's not quite ready. And that was it. It never happened. I don't know if that's the best,

but that's certainly one of the stranger and interesting ones I ever wrote. Yeah. Should we end with a Michael Shannon anecdote? You mentioned that you saw my Michael Shannon paraphernalia here. What's your Michael Shannon, favorite Michael Shannon story? So I knew Michael Shannon back when I was,

we were starting the Upright Citizens Brigade in Chicago. So we're going back to like, what is that, 93 or something like that, 92. And we were doing a show at a theater called The Red Orchid, which Michael Shannon started with his buddy, Guy Van Sweringer. And so we would, the Upper States of Brigade would come in to do our show. But before we would come in, there would always be this kid, this 19-year-old, who was doing a redo of sex drugs and rock and roll, the Bogosian one-man show. So we would always come in. there'd be 10 minutes left and we would sit there and watch him and we'd be like he's pretty good is he really only 19 how what kind of nerve does he have doing the show and we would watch him

and then we would start our show and he would hang around and be like he's always by the way he was 19 and he still seemed like he was 55 and he'd be like um guys are kind of funny and that was the first time We met, and then later my wife directed him in several plays in Chicago and just directed him in a play recently. But I remember this thing of this 19-year-old kid who seemed like he was 55, and I'm like, you guys are kind of fun. Well, add him to the repertoire. It's a crowded field, a crowded group in the Adam McKay repertoire. But there's got to be room for Shannon. I would love to work with him.

Love to, love to, love to. He's the best. As you can tell, I'm a great fan of admirer of your work. I love the new film. Vice is such a great piece of work. It's hugely entertaining and sobering and and all of the, all of the interesting emotions to feel in 2018 and 2019. And I'm so glad you made it. And you're welcome here anytime, man. Thanks for kicking out with me. Thank you, man. What a pleasure. Anyone who's got a big trouble and little China poster in your office, I will spend time with. There you go. It's a good barometer, right? And whose wife works for the

NRDC. I mean, that's the, that's the double right there. Double check. Yeah. I passed. Thanks, dude. Thanks, man. That was really fun. And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person.

I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh. I'm Amy Nicholson, the film critic for the L.A. Times. And I'm Paul Shear, an actor, writer, and director. You might know me from The League, Veep, or my non-eligible for Academy Award role in Twisters. We love movies, and we come at them from different perspectives. Yeah, like, Amy thinks that, you know, Joe Pesci was miscast in Goodfellas, and I don't. He's too old. Let's not forget that Paul thinks that Dude, too, is overrated.

It is. Anyway, despite this, we come together to be. the host Unspooled, a podcast where we talk about good movies, critical hits. Fan favorites, must-season, and Casey Mistoms. We're talking Parasite the Home Alone. From Greece to the Dark Night. We've done deep dives on popcorn flicks. We've talked about why Independence Day deserves a second look.

And we've talked about horror movies, some that you've never even heard of like Ganges and Hess. So if you love movies like we do, come along on our cinematic adventure. Listen to Unspooled wherever you get your podcast. And don't forget to hit the follow button. Thank you.