Happy Sad Confused - Adrien Brody, James McAvoy & Sharon Horgan

Episode Date: August 27, 2021

Adrien Brody is a busy man. He's the lead in the new Stephen King adaptation, "Chapelwaite", he's in the middle of play Pat Riley in a new series about the Lakers of 80s, and there's work to come in "Succession" and Wes Anderson's latest! But that's all just the tip of the ice in this conversation with Josh that dives deep into his childhood, the saga of being cut from "The Thin Red Line", his Oscar win for "The Pianist", and more! Plus Josh checks in with James McAvoy and Sharon Horgan for a fun chat about their pandemic dramedy, "Together"! Don't forget to check out the Happy Sad Confused patreon here! We've got exclusive episodes of GAME NIGHT, video versions of the podcast, and more! For all of your media headlines remember to subscribe to The Wakeup newsletter here! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Because when you're doing big things, your tools should to. Visit square.ca to get started. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, Sad, Confused begins now. Today on Happy, Sad Confused, Adrian Brody takes on Stephen King with Chapelweight and Sharon Hogan and James McAvoy on their pandemic dromedy together. Hey, guys, I'm Josh Horowitz. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused, yet another two-fer for you guys today.

Three-fer? There are three guests, but two interviews, two-com. conversations. A little bit later on in the show, The Wonderful, the Charming, James McAvoy, Sharon Horgan. They have collaborated on a new film that really is an exceptional piece of work considering all the bizarre conditions this was made. And this is a film that was written and directed and shot during the year that was. And it is indeed about a couple dealing with being together during the pandemic. It is a funny film. A heartfelt film, a dramatic film, and it features two fantastic performances by Sharon and James.

Sharon, who I have not really spent any time with over the years, but I've always been a big fan of her work. She is an exceptional actor as well as a writer and creator. And James, well, if you know my work, you probably know James has done a lot of stuff with me over the years. We've done some crazy sketches that he thinks back too fondly in our conversation, I'm happy to say. And he's been on the podcast. He's done a ton of things. to catch up with James for a smaller conversation about their new film together. That's later on in the podcast.

But first up, really excited about this one. This was such a great conversation. Oh, my God, I'd loved talking to Adrian Brody. Adrian Brody, you know him, you love him, the youngest best actor, award winner at the Oscars ever for the pianist. But he's done so many films, a wide array of work, whether you know him from his Wes Anderson work, whether you know him from King Kong or Splice. I don't know. He's done every genre of film. He is now starring in a great new series on epics called Chapel Waite. It is based on a short story by the great Stephen King. A bit of gothic horror

inspired by Poe, real juicy 1850s dramatic horror. And that's exceptionally well done. It is on epics. It's a 10-part series with Adrian at the center of it all. But this conversation with him It was just great. I hadn't talked to him in a number of years. Back in the day, I felt like I was talking to Adrian Brody all the time, whether it was films like Predators or Splice, etc. But it'd been in a minute since I caught up with him. And I just found to be a really thoughtful, smart, and just like I had great things to say, great reflections on a really interesting career. If you don't know, here's some backstory, because we do get into it in the conversation. Yes, he won the Best Actor Award for the Pianist. He was in his probably 28 or 29 when he won that award. But prior to that, most kind of infamously, Adrian Brody was the star of Terrence Malick's The Thin Red Line, which was a very big deal at the time. Thin Red Line was Terrence Malick's first film in nearly 20 years, and this was going to be the film that made Adrian Brody a star. Well, as the legend has it, the film premieres, Adrian goes to the premiere and finds that he has essentially been cut from the film. He's not, he's barely in the thin red line.

It's now kind of Jim Cabizzo at the center of it alongside, you know, Sean Penn and Nick Nolte and George Clooney, a cavalcade of stars, but not really Adrian. So a traumatic kind of thing for any actor, let alone a young actor, to find out that they have been essentially excised from their big break. But I found Adrian's talking about that experience in this conversation really fascinating to sort of see how he was. able to kind of take some good from that otherwise really kind of rough experience for a young actor and channel it into experiences later on. So, I mean, that's just one aspect of this conversation, but he has a lot of thoughtful things to say about growing up in New York and the influence of his parents and the choices he's made, his perspective on comic book films, and how we talk about how back in the day he met with Christopher Nolan and really

wanted to play Joker. I mean, Ledger was great. I also would pay money to see. Adrian Brody's Joker, why not? So, yeah, this is one of those conversations where I just didn't want it to end, and I wish we had more time. But hopefully Adrian will come back on the podcast soon, and we can delve into more exciting stuff. Because, by the way, he also has so many really cool projects coming up. He's going to be in the new season of Succession.

He's in this new show about the Lakers back in the day playing Pat Riley. So, yeah, anyway, you can tell. Really love that chat. So a lot of really great conversation. on this episode of Happy Say I Confused. I know you guys are going to dig. Otherwise, some other cool things to mention. I did a bunch of conversations for the new movie Shang Chi. The new Marvel hero is on the scene. And Simu Liu is fantastic in the film. Aquafina is fun. The great Tony Leong. If you don't know Tony Leong's work already,

you will see why he is an international star. He just is like a charisma machine in this film. But anyway, I got a chance to talk to Simu and Aquafina. So there's some Comedy Central shenanigans coming up with Simu in Aquafina very soon and also an MTV conversation. I had more of a straightforward kind of career chat with Simu, and he just so fits the bill as a new hero for Marvel. And also just like a charismatic, cool guy. So really thrilled that I got a chance to talk to him for that. I'm trying to think there are other cool things coming up soon. I've been very busy on the Comedy Central and MTV front.

I don't know. I think that's enough to tease for now. But suffice it to say, there is more coming up that you will definitely want to tune into because we're getting into out of the summer soon and into the fall, which means kind of the quote-unquote prestige movies, which I personally dig the most. So lots of cool stuff to come. All right. We've got a big show, so let's go right to it.

Again, if you're here for James McAvoy and Sharon Horgan, that's coming up at the end of the show after this conversation. But first up, here's me and the great Adrian Brody talking all things. his comfort movie, another great Stephen King adaptation, and his life and career in general. Here it is. Thank you for doing the podcast today. As you know, this is a bit of a longer form thing, and it's always a luxury to get a chance to kind of like go a little deeper. So, again, thanks for the time, man.

Appreciate that. So talk to me, first of all, where in the world am I finding you today? What's going on a way? I'm working out here. is this the the wakeers project which are the many exciting adrian brodie products is this it's really exciting what a cast and some great pedigree behind it uh mckay adam mackay did the podcast recently and that guy is just so so whipsmart anything he puts his game on yeah um and all about yeah our show matt and max borenstein and it's wonderful talented

uh creative people on board and um yes and a wonderful cast and amazing history to delve into the craziest thing for me each day is realizing how the 80s which theoretically shouldn't feel so it is a long time i know but it feels like the 60s like fashion shifts and we've come so far and so far from that era it's fascinating so that alone is just um yeah it's It's trippy to realize that, like, your childhood era is now like science fiction in today's terms. And how foreign it must be for young people today, because it's foreign for me already. And, you know, the concept of, I mean, just even the old days of, you know, lugging around a Thomas guide out in L.A. when I first got out here to get a page and pull over to a pay phone and call my agent. You know, couldn't wait to get a page.

And before the page, you're literally waiting by the phone, waiting for your answering, calling in and checking your messages. Yeah, or the answering service or all of it. Someone called. Yeah. Now I don't even have voicemail. I know. Yeah, so the modern audience, basically watching your Lakers show

is going to feel basically like watching Tapelate. It's the same thing. It's not that different. Well, you lead me to a subject that I wanted to lead off with. because you're a born-in-bred New Yorker like myself. I still live here in the city, and I always love to talk to unicorns like myself that came out of New York and are semi-well-adjusted

and love this city and love how it defined them. When you look back at your childhood in New York, do you romanticize those times? Do you look back at them and think they were tough or rough? Or when you think back to your childhood in New York, what do you think of? I appreciate them. I don't always romanticize them because parts of it were rough and difficult, but they were beautiful.

And I do see the beauty in that and the gift of encountering so many walks of life, as I'm sure you do too. Even if I wasn't an actor, my sense of community and just just awareness of how diverse we all are comes from this sea of humanity that we grew up in and taking me train. I always attribute, you know, I went to Performing Arts High School, and I was very lucky to be accepted and to the drama department.

And, you know, I was already acting professionally. We can delve into that if we want, but I fell in. fell into a love of acting, not necessarily acting as a career decision or any sense of what could come or would come. And really, performing arts kind of saved me

from having to go to my local zone school, which would have been disastrous for many reasons. It was very high dropout level. It was very violent at the time and quite dangerous. And, um, was very close to home and it would have it would have tracked me into something very different and even even just out of necessity to survive which i even felt commuting going to taking four trains to go to performing arts in the city um but you know that journey into to go to drama school

i felt was way more informative i mean i appreciate all the technique learned and it was very valuable, but just absorbing all the characters that I've encountered in my lifetime that, you know, resurfacing in works like the pianist, you know, and there are nuances of human behavior that you just couldn't really learn by just studying. You could learn details, but you're there and and you're always a fly on the wall of so much so much so many lives and different things going on and chaos and yep and i do love that i do i i i do romanticize that it's kind of like it's kind of like looking back and seeing new york as like taxi driver was like i remember my mom's old shitty Chevy nova 70 no nova which i would like love to have right now but

you know, just the drum brakes and sliding in the snow and really heavy snowy winters and, you know, the, I remember the flakes of snow coming up on the windshield as, as like, just flowing. Like, it was beautiful imagery. Like, and those, it doesn't snow like that anymore. You know, our whole environments change, but just yellow, old taxi cabs and all those things. It was, kind of romantic. 42nd Street was really 42nd Street. It wasn't a tourist trap. It was dangerous, but it was exciting.

When you're young and when you're a teenager, like that just is like a siren call. Like I couldn't not want to go to a more dangerous area. Let's go there. Great idea. Yeah, the amusement park was in your backyard, yeah. So all that completely resonates with me. Yes, I always say like, yes, just cold.

with culture and diversity as a kid in New York is just, was just like the most invaluable education that I, that I was given. Talk to me a little bit about your family. I mean, your mom, a very well-regarded photographer, your dad, a professor. Did they have, did they instill in you a strong sense, a love of the arts, a love of film and theater?

Was that part of your upbringing? Yeah, I mean, my father really loves film and he watches a lot of movies and love it. a lot of older films as well, which were very interesting for me to watch with him as a boy. I didn't really realize it, but it was an education there as well. But actually, my dad used to love martial arts films, too. We'd go down at Canal Street in Chinatown, and he'd take me to the movie theater on Saturday, and we drive in, and we had an old Carmen Gia and drive in and go see these movies.

one day someone was shooting and someone shot a gun off in the theater or whatever I think when I was really young but I mean it was so it was so wild but then you know I was steeped in these old run run show off films and martial arts movies which were you know I didn't know would have some real place and then I ended up doing a movie with Jackie Chan years later and um doing martial arts sequence fight sequence with jacky chan which was so amazing but uh couldn't write a better script and go again and uh training with the jacky chan stunt team it was such a a dream come true right because as a boy you know all my teenage years i was just actually reminiscing with a friend last night about i used to go up to the park in my neighborhood

had anything really to do. And we'd just hang out and get into trouble and play fight and do these like martial arts moves on each other and practice on each other. So it's just so funny. But yeah, so there was a lot of quite a diverse love of film. And you know, we'd also go see films at the Angelica and when you could go see really interesting

foreign films and independent movies that would play in theaters. And my mother has just such an enormous influence on me in all of my creative pursuits and has really been a divining rod to at least the quest for purity. She's a much pure artist than I am. I don't think you can be that pure in in most professions, but you know, there's there is a need to compromise in making film because, well, they're not, they're hardly making film, right? I mean, right? How often does that perfect project come along? It's a Yes, and saying you're not a photographer and having a vision and you're not just given an assignment and being allowed to interpret something in your way and bring that home and hopefully

they accept it and give you another job, right? It's it's you're you're given material and you have to choose them unless you're gifted enough and fortunate enough to be able to write your own material and get that made, which very few people are. You're really interpreting someone else's words and then your work is then interpreted by a director and guided by the production and then edited and it's such a complex thing. So it's really vastly different. But I have tried very hard to at least be motivated by what actually inspires me or a journey that I think is meaningful or storytelling approach that I think is valuable to others, including myself. And she's given me all of that.

And aside from having had an assignment for the Village Voice to photograph the American Academy of Dramatic Arts when I was a boy and saw that there were young people behaving like I was, misbehaving. And just, you know, I think that's such a huge gift. And I always look back at it of finding, acting or acting, you know, finding me prior to adolescence. Because when when a boy or a girl hits puberty already, there's a ship, right? And we start becoming, we start doubting ourselves, we're changing. There's a metamorphosis, right? There's a purity to, like, 12 and under. It's all pure.

Yeah, that's right. It was diverge. It was 12. And 14, you're not a man yet, but you're feeling different and things are going on, and it's more complicated. And then you've got a whole, you're, you've kind of mastered boyhood at 12. And now you're a teenager. and you have no clue of what that is.

And you see, you know, a 17-year-old or an 18-year-old, and you think, wow, they're a man, and you really want to emulate them. But you're not there. You're not there yet. And I think, and then you have, if you're lucky enough to find something like getting proper acting education, you're getting all this information and all this.

judgment from your teacher and that also what can be amazingly positive experience but that can also inhibit a young person and I feel so blessed that I just caught a sense of the freedom of my child of the care-freeness more that is needed even as an adult to be an actor and and Of course, there's a lot of precise work that has to go in it, but you do need this childlike imagination. You do need to stay open in some way or manage to open whatever those channels are up to be vulnerable and exposed and present in sometimes very compromising situations or difficult ones. I feel like that, retaining that is the technique that I have valued most of that early start. And also, my mother is just such a beautiful artist and photographer. And not only was I, her subject done so much that I got very comfortable having a camera.

camera, present, and was not encouraged to do anything. Wasn't my father telling me, now smile. You know, you want a good photo here. You need to smile. It's like my mom just shot me climbing, doing pull-ups on a stoplight, you know? Yeah, yeah, she stripped you in the artifice early on. You told me to pull-up or stop doing a pull-up. She just thought me doing my thing.

And so I'm grateful for all of that. And that I romanticize about it's funny to think about because, like, you know, I was going back through your filmography, looking at some old interviews. And, you know, when people think back to the pianist, when you won the Oscar, I think for a lot of people had a sense, like, this guy came out of nowhere. This was his first thing. But like, as you just alluded to, you've been working for a while. And not only you've been working, like, you've been directed by, like, Spike and Barry Levinson and Terrence Malik. Like, you've been, like, accumulating a really significant body of work, whether the general public knew it or not. Where were you at when penis happened?

You'd been through that trial by fire, which must have been crazy, the whole thin red divine experience, which must have fucked up your head a little bit. Were you in a happy, good place? Like, were you, like, feeling, like, ready for your coming out party, or were you beaten down by, like, opportunities that had kind of quite panned out in the way you wanted them today? Oh, I had several years to come to terms with the line. I mean, and I had been acting for 17 years. So that was probably the greatest loss creatively that I've had. And hopefully we'll remain that.

With the years, are you able to look back at that experience with any greater race? Yes, I already at that. point in in in grasping the responsibilities I had in the pianist and I was still a young man I was 27 when I shot that right and so much of life became apparent to me and much of what I had taken for granted in my life, become apparent to me in the making of that film and the process of preparing for it and

shooting it, which was a six-month movie. The pianist was a six-month movie. Malik's film was a six-month film as well. I joke with Roman, actually, when we made the movie, I said, well, you can't cut me out of this one. What are you going to call it, the piano? But, But the loss of not being in a movie that is a dream project and you're already touted and kind of publicly put out there as the author's persona, et cetera, and having spent time with James Jones's widow and, you know, it was such an amazing.

level of commitment and involvement and the gist of what an actor's journey is really is to connect with the journey of the character and in this case a novelist who really was writing about himself that was the fife was his point of view and what james jones was coping with was a feeling of inadequacy and guilt uh as a soldier of coming coming home and all the complexity of of the psychological scarring of war and repercussions of war and and what i kept thinking about was how I can't really share what that felt like to come back and have six months of doing something kind of eviscerated and no clue of all of that really. And I thought on some level, this is how soldiers must feel coming back, giving their all and fighting

and being put through hell, really hell, and being afraid and feeling insecure about their fears and watching other soldiers be more brave. And then coming back, like in Deer Hunter, like coming back to waiting for the parade that never comes. Yeah, I mean, I was so young anyway, I just was so excited to get great work and work with a genius director and be surrounded by the most amazing actors. And then I had all of those experiences. I had them. We shot him. I had that life. I was with Sean Pan there. And he treated me wonderfully. And I, you know, was there with Woody Harrelson. And, and, uh, You know, I was in Guadalcanal, and I was doing the work. And I did a eight days or so boot camp and got put through the ringer because the, our, the captain of our squad really made an example of me because there's a bit in the movie, I guess.

But I was the lead at that point. So they kicked me out of my group, which were all the young guys that were in the core group of the film, and they put me in with the Australian extras. and then made me feel what it was like to be taken away. And there was a kind of parallel element that happened in the novel. And all of these were wonderful. It was such a wonderful gift, a life experience. And I feel like anything that happens in your life, the beauty of being an actor, is that there's

value to all the sadness that you have, to any sense of loss, to any sense of joy, but to give value to unpleasant experiences is a beautiful thing, to really give value because your responsibility is to now step into the shoes of another person. and honor that person and to act it without some innate understanding of it is bullshit. Then you're acting. And it's the wrong you can't. Some people can, but it feels so dishonest that it's the antithesis of the process. It's the antithesis of what I want to show up and do.

I don't want to make it through something by faking some connection, acting. It's fine. You're showing you that I'm in pain. I want to understand what that pain is and the muscles of that pain and the complexity of that pain and and allow the intimacy of a camera to capture that moment, go there, conjure it, and try and get get rid of it to some extent. That's the real magic trick. But I could not have done the pianist

or connect as well to certain things, I don't think, without a certain degree of loss, understanding of that. And so I value it, and I value, all of the things that come and go in life and loving and losing and winning and losing. And, you know, I think the beauty of being an actor is you continue. If you can stay the course, you continue to get better because life informs. Yeah.

And he's giving you all the material. Yeah. Yeah. And the more character-building things that happen that don't break you make you much more interesting as a person. And if you can now channel that into a work to share intimately with the world, which we all need, which is, which is what we need. We don't need. I mean, sure, we, we, we, we. can enjoy a more a lighter entertaining experience of, you know, killing some time and being entertained. But if we can be entertained and also feel a connection and feel more connected, even to an interpretation of a character that makes us think about either our lives or our neighbor's lives or our parents' lives or what they've been through, that's a gift. That's, um, and that's what I yearn for in, in everything that I do. Well, it's, it's, it's a great, uh, trait that you were able to kind of figure that out, at least to some degree even early on back then. I mean, because then on

the flip side, I was watching like, I might have even been working there at the time. You were on the Charlie Rose show when you were on the pianist. And to see you there is to see like, kind of a joy it's a really joyful thing to watch because it's to see an actor as tarley said and he was a shitty guy but a good interviewer and i know from working for him but you met the moment you met you know it was the actor met the material and it was just to see a guy uh at that relatively young age kind of like just finally kind of welcome to the club did you feel that did you feel like your peers or your elder peers the people that you had admired kind of like gave you validation in the wake of the penis and what did that mean to you at the time

Oh, absolutely. It was, it still almost moves me to tears because, you know, I'm, and I think this is something that I inherently learned from my mother and her experiences of, you know, my mom fled Hungary during the revolution in 56 and left everything behind as a very young girl and left her. friends behind. She was only told 24 hours before she was leaving and fled on the back of a truck, shooting flares, and she was a refugee, and she went through Vienna, and then she was a foreigner there and made fun of for being a foreigner and ended up in New Jersey

and put herself through art school and became this wonderful, soulful person. And all of her perspective, I think, And if you look at her imagery, there's such a connection to the fragility of life. And there's a degree of sadness within that. There's a consciousness of that. And I have that. I'm saddened by how much sadness there is in the world.

And then there I was with this triumph. of a lifetime of working, which was, it was, you know, I, you know, shy 10 years of my entire existence on this earth. I had been working professionally. And I was being given all this appreciation, but it was, it was coupled with an understanding of the horror of the world. Right. Tied to this very weighty. Yes. It was a very weighty thing, and it was a huge responsibility in making that film to honor all the loss. How does a young man do that? And the personal loss for the filmmaker and the man who I portrayed in the memoirs and each individual and all of that, just,

so many levels. And then there I was being showered in appreciation. And it was a very strange time. You know, I don't know if I ever anticipated that level of acknowledgement for my work. Of course, I couldn't. And I think every actor says, oh, yeah, I'd love to win an Academy Award. You know, be appreciated.

But you don't understand what that is and what kind of a triumph it is, especially if you're young, I think. And to have so many of my peers, even, know my name. I mean, Jack Nicholson didn't really know my name before we were up and, you know, before I was really going over to his house to discuss what do we do about it? Because we just embarked on a, it was, you know, that's a whole other tangent. But, you know, like Jack, I saw me one night and he was like, hey, brofee. I was like, yeah. You can call me whatever you like, Jack. You know what you like, boss.

But it was such a crazy shift and really beautiful. And again, to share that with my parents who gave me the space to pursue a dream, which is very hard to do. You know, we don't come from, you know, come from really modest. surroundings and, you know, they're both educated. They would have, you know, but they just understood me and allowed me to find my way. And it was the beginning of really feeling like I was on track. And prior to that, I never knew if I'd just. get another job. I mean, it was really, I was a working actor and done a lot of work and worked

with wonderful people and had wonderful education in film. But I, I never knew. And actually, after the pianist, I didn't get a job for a year. After the Academy Award, I didn't work for a year. Was the next thing you did, The Village? Yes. Yes. Which also, can I just say, because I next kind of wanted to segue into what I would call, quote, your genre work, which like the village fits in there, chapel weight fits into there. I'm a big fan of all these things, Splice. I'm a big fan of King Kong, Predators we've talked about.

I remember years ago. And clearly based on some of your early experiences, you talked about watching Shaw brothers, you know, martial arts films as a kid, I take it you were a genre film fan. Yes. Do you approach things, do you think about genre, when you're doing something. Applying it to Chapelweight, for instance,

or for any of these. Like, does the genre trappings affect a performance? Do you know, like, I'm in this type of movie, so I need to act in this style? That's a really great question. That's a great question. I guess on certain days, in certain days, you feel you can't escape that you're in a genre.

Right. You look to your left, you're right. You're like, I mean. And Josh, where, Whether you want it or not, it is affecting your acting. It is, you know, you are having some really fake-looking blood oozing out of something. Or, you know, it is a bit arched the moment that you, you, and that you have to swim through. But I have a sense of humor with it.

And I think some people have a hard time differentiating, you know, it's a, it's like I'm, I have to become a painting, right? Part of a painting. And each one of these journeys is a different style. I don't want, and even, and I do paint, and even as a painter, I have styles that I gravitate to that I love, but I'm constantly experimenting and I'm constantly trying new things. And I think even in the art world, when you see an artist, you want to go, ah, that is a Picasso, that is a Monet, that is a Baskia.

But if Baskia just did some really cool collage, and you were like, that's a Baskia, and be like, well, that's not a Bostia. And there was no little cool sketching or oil stick work and nothing that you recognize as a Bostia. You got to allow the person to paint it. And you may not love that painting, but it is a creative journey, right?

It is to share, but it is also for me to go on. And I love to experiment with the work. And I feel like that is part of the joy of being an actor of not only finding diverse roles and becoming people that are very different from you and your set of experiences, but to, you know, work with, you know, can Loach and work with Dario Argento, you know. And I think both of the. those are meaningful to me and both entirely different processes. And I, I, I love it. I love that. And, but I don't know if that translates. It may be you, because you, you see so much and you're, you have an understanding of the process and people's work. And, but I think, um, I don't know if I confuse, I feel like I've confused a lot of people with my choices.

Why would you do that? And I do love the, I'd love to experiment with the work. And I like to take some risk with it and just go there and see what happens. Sometimes it's not great what happens, but sometimes it is really great, fun. and uh without the risk that i grew up on i grew up on and going to see you know nightmare on elm street and yeah he was in theater and uh yeah so on on a somewhat trivial note but but it's important to me because i'm i'm a nerd at heart and i grew up with this stuff and even many years ago i i remember talking about this with you one of the few things you haven't been

in is a big comic book movie and it's it's just part and parcel of the conversation of pop culture in the last 10 years especially as it's dominated everything told me once you had at least some conversation with Chris Nolan about Joker, do you recall that? Do I remember that? I'm just curious, like, how far you? Did you have a take? Like, did you have like an interpretation you were ready to? Oh, no, I wasn't, I wasn't close. I mean, I don't, I, you know, it was a, it was a role that I felt very suited to do. I mean, I think he did such a remarkable job. Yeah. And that movie and, and it was indelible. and such beautiful work

and any actor who has a degree of edge and would like to delve into a dark character like that especially with a filmmaker like Christopher Nolan who brought such a profound vision and nobody was doing that

at the time there was nothing like that so it was the difference of are you going to do a big studio movie and play a comic book hero or villain whatever you're suited for if you're lucky but it's really broad and broad and not necessarily the the way that would feel fulfilling right this checked all the boxes this was everything yes and and Christopher Nolan's work and and what he gave actors and that was such a revelation that that it was you know mind-blowing to see and so of course at that point you know that would that would have been such a dream role you know and I'm sure it was but he does it does it feel like unfinished business and said all, again, it's weird to like paint it with a broad brush because you just, you just described it well. It's like it's really not about a comic book genre. It's about like

the opportunity to work with like a specific. Like I said, if, if I was presented with an opportunity to play an interesting character with a filmmaker that, um, elevated me and gave me space to do something vastly different in that world, it sounds amazing. you have this wonderful machine if you're talking about a marvel movie you have you know Disney and Marvel and all these you know giants that know all the technique and tools and stand behind these movies and you know they they've done something that I think is is enormous yeah it's warmness and and people love them and so who wouldn't want to be a part of something that is beloved and and you know but it would it would take a tone that i related to it wouldn't be

just to you know yeah um this this time is already flying by so there's there are at least two other subjects i want to hit before i i release you and see back into your life sir um we have we've barely talked chapel weight but this this subject actually kind of relates a little bit into it, which is I asked you for a comfort movie. I've been asking everybody for comfort movies in the last year. You mentioned the man of the hour at the center of this. This is a great one. It is a bizarrely comforting movie, even for me, even if it's one of the darkest, creepiest movies ever. I thought you'd appreciate it. Oh, it's the best. So re-watchable, always. He gets sucked in. Tell us your comfort movie, Adrian, and why you chose it?

Well, I thought it was such an interesting question because I do know people who resort to a comfort movie. And it's a complex thing for an actor to have a comfort movie. It's a complex thing because it's my work. And there are so many things that go on for me to watch a movie. It's rarely comforting. So it's a lot of work. And I, um, and, and, but I, there are, there are a few that I resort to, but I mentioned that the Shining, for me, is a comfort film and for many reasons.

Um, one is that, you know, you can appreciate that movie if you've, if you, if you know, if you, if you know it well in, in the background too. There is a vastness, uh, scope and um, visually. It's just stunning. Kubrick's work. is just incredible. You know, the source material, Stephen King's work is gripping and tormented. And then the acting is impeccable across the board. And, you know, I know a bit about it. I know I have done a little research on it. I know some of the suffering that's gone on to make it. And to witness that such a privilege,

and to see an actor like Jack and his prime and the subtlety and the broadness of his work is just meaningful and just so meaningful to me and

I think you're right by the way I played on a projector and it's just you know the scope of it is just so powerful well and envelopes you, right? It is, you know, the cliché of world building. That's what Kubrick does in each of his works. He just, like, draws you into this just meticulously crafted,

absorbing sensory overload, the music, from the opening images of the car winding through the road to the topiary at the end, you were just like, you are at the overlook stuck in there with this family. And it's just, I mean, I always say I love the feeling of like just being in, short hands of a filmmaker and like in a much more bizarre way I would say like Wes Anderson shares this right your buddy Wes creates a world that is just meticulous and you are in the strongest possible vision and you're not going to be let down and that's what Kubrick every time does and to this one to such great effect and such haunting and I can't think of a movie that has more dread hanging over it so I think it's

it's an unusual pick but I it's a great pick I could put on just about any West Anderson movie and that would be a comfort film easily and, you know, put on Royal Tannenbaum's and that can be on, you know, you can leave that on quite often. And it's a wonderful film. I just don't throw movies on again and again for the sake of it. I just, partially because I don't have time to sit down and be comforted. I have a lot to do. I have a lot of burning inside of me that I want to accomplish. So it's hard for me to sit still. But I like, there are a few films.

Godfather, too, is another one that if I'm on a flight or somewhere that I am, you know, I've gotten through some of my catch up work, my emails and my, you know, reading some scripts that I've forgotten. Like, I'll sit down and allow myself to watch. And again, and, you know, You know, that's comforting.

Yeah. It's just comforting. Great selections, man. I wish we had more time. Hopefully, let's do this again. Because, thankfully, and if you look at the IMDB, look, you've worked so consistently throughout your career. But right now, you have just a host of projects coming up that I could not be more excited

for. We alluded to the Wakers project. You've joined the show that every actor is dying to join in succession. We'll see you on that one soon. I'm fascinated, excited by this Sam Rockwell, Sertia Ronan, murder mistreating. It's all happening in the best possible way, man. And just to say it, because I know we didn't really give maybe enough love, but I do want to say chap await on epics is an exceptional piece of work. It's based on Stephen King's material. And it really does

create that very holistic world, this feeling of dread. And again, you deliver, as always, a fantastic central performance. And this has really been a fantastic chat, man. It's been long overdue. And I really do appreciate the time, as always. Yeah, I appreciate you. And, you know, keep up doing the great things that you're doing and, you know, stay positive and focused on it. And I love your sensibilities, so I'm happy to talk any time. And yes, I briefly just send you up with that, you know, Chapelweight was just such a pleasure for me. You know, it was very challenging work, but it was such a, first of all, a gift to delve into the work of Stephen King. and I think the Filardi brothers did a wonderful interpretation

and of that source material of Jerusalem's lot. And that was a real, he was a real man that character, right? And I feel like it's very different from other roles that I've been given an opportunity to play. And I just liked his fortitude and pragmatic approach to things and his measured behavior in an attempt to not get swept away emotionally from all these things because he had a lot stressing him emotionally. Yeah, from the get-go.

He's dealing with loss, yeah. And I thought it was really interesting. It's very different from the man. I mean, I aspire to have certain traits like that, but I found it really like a meditation almost to play that guy. because he was so driven and tenacious. I would have been long gone. I would have gotten out of that house quickly.

You and me both. Actually, I've been stuck in my house with plenty of ghosts for a long time. But, yeah, I don't know. But I really enjoyed playing Charles Boone. And I hope people see it. It'd be really great. Now people should check it out. We did an entire long conversation.

without even mentioning worms coming out of your nose. This might be the first chapelweight conversation that doesn't hit that. But see, come for the acting and stay for the worm coming out of the nose. Adrian, man, again, it's been a pleasure, and I hope to talk to you soon. I have to do well.

James, it's always a pleasure to catch up with you, man. How you doing, buddy? I'm good, man. Thank you very much. You're doing all right. I'm holding up all right. Sharon, I don't think we've had the pleasure. Thank you for making the time

to chat about your lovely new film today. You're welcome. So James and I have created some really disgusting things over the year. So it's probably for the best that we're doing this over the same. Oh, really? We've kissed, I think. Multiple times. Yeah.

It's a running motif in our sketches. Didn't I once kiss you on the lips? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. You and my wife are basically on even keel. I haven't gone further with her either. So it's for realties. Yeah.

Yeah, it's for realties. We've made like some weird little sort of comedy movies together. One where I ended up kissing you a lot and then another one where I ended up like sort of getting into a weird, sado, masochistic sexual relationship with your laptop. Yeah, you had sex with a computer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, exactly happened to do it. So this movie is much more classy than anything we've done.

Congratulations on this one, guys. Together is the film. And this is, you know, it's obviously a lot of unusual kind of circumstances of the last year for all of us and for producing works of art. This, on paper, could sound like the worst idea possible to some, but somehow you guys make it work, the writing and the acting. It's like, do we want to revel in the COVID year? Maybe not, but this one, this one actually does work. Were you wary going into a project like this or what? Weirdly, I wasn't wary.

Considering how I felt about, you know, there wasn't a huge amount of COVID content made. But, you know, there was a period of time where no one was making any TV and it was clear that some, someone had to try. You know, because there was reruns and then there was the sort of people sort of filming stuff on Zoom and la la. So I was just like wanted to steer clear of all of that and then this came along and it was written by Dennis and you know, Dennis and I go way back

and I know he's a brilliant writer but I honestly God it sort of blew me away when I read it. I just found it so, you know, I was just so engrossed from the first page. I just wanted to be with these people. And then knowing that, you know, it's a, you know, a lockdown drama with real comedic moments in it. So it wasn't going to be just this sort of, you weren't just going to be talked at and sort of made a feel sort of grief

all the way through. You were going to be entertained and Stephen Georgie was going to, you know, helmet and and then to get to work with um james macavoy on on this you know uh who i've loved for years and and admired for years and just to to get the chance to do a two-hander pretty much you know just with him felt like so there was no there was no part of me that was worried about it because i knew it was going to be good like you know unless i'm sorry no i was going to say the script is delicious i mean the dialogue i mean i would imagine as an actor you can really true on this stuff. I mean, this is about a couple that is not necessarily in the best stretch of their relationship to say the least. And as we all know, you know, we sadly can say

the worst things possible to the people that we have the most history with. And some of the stuff you guys say to each other is so cutting. I mean, like, I probably love you might be the most damning phrase you can say to a lover. Yeah, but at that stage, it's, it's, it's, I don't know, found that kind of lovely because it's so honest when when he when he says that. I mean, he's so, it was so heartbreaking to look at him. I mean, we say so many vile things to each other. And I, you know, I've been in relationships that haven't been great. And it was so reminiscent of those. You know, when you get to a point where you're looking at someone's face and you hate their face and you genuinely hate their face and you notice things like

their eyes are too close together because because you hate them so much. You're honing in on the thing because you feel like it'll help because it'll make you hate them more. So it's sort of the fact that it was, that it captured all that was, I mean, that was, that's harsh, really. Yeah, I think the fact as well that like by that point, we've introduced them into the world that this relationship so much that I probably love you, hopefully affects the audience the same way it affected me. Like, the audience understand their language now that they know that means something

humongous, gigamongous, more than the next couple could ever say with a superlative love poem, do you know what I mean? Yep. So I think that's, they've got this, they've just get their own language and they've got their own way and it's nice to be able to translate that. Are there any recurring things that your partners over the years have said about you that drives them crazy? What's been like, oh, this must be something I do that just generally

drives my partner or partners over the year is insane. Have you become self-aware of anything, James, or no? Oh, oh. You're perfect. You have nothing. Probably. You what, pal? Leaving the toilet door open.

Isn't that one of your things? That's a signature Maca-Boy move? I do. I just did that a little bit. I just did that a minute ago with the entirety of our Zoom participants. Yeah, man. it wasn't pretty. I'd had a Vindaloo last night as well, so, you know. Do you guys have stucco? We call it pebble dash. Oh, my gosh. Wow. So, what would I say? I expect a lot of, I need a lot

of tactility. Maybe that. Maybe I'm too, I need too much physical contact. Maybe that is it? Oh, this goes back to our kissing test. This makes sense. It sounds like I'm just like one of those guys, like, I just need a lot of sex. Do you know what I'm saying? big man. Just need a lot of shagging. It's handholding. Just like physical contact. I've heard that a few times. Okay. Okay. Okay. So everything about this production is accelerated, right? Like, as I understand it, it came together really quickly, 10 days of rehearsal, 10 days of shooting. Does that accelerate everything about it? It must kind of like spoil you. You guys have both been on

much larger productions where there's a lot of downtime. It must be so fantastically rewarding to just like every waking moment be thinking about this and just in it. Yeah. We were just saying it has spoiled us actually. You know, the first meeting I had about a film

after James when I finished this, I was just like, so I've just made this film and I think we should make it like that. Seriously, I think we should rehearse it for two weeks and then I think we should film in two weeks and I don't see why we can't do that.

And obviously that can't be the case for everything, but there's some things. Yeah. that would that be the case for? I've done two movies in the last year and a half that we made in two weeks, basically. One of them was a completely improvised film where I didn't have a clue what was coming next.

And then the next one was this. And we managed to make both of them in two weeks. I'm like, come on, every movie should be like this. He has the same amount of money, please. That's the only caveat. Right. Get us out of there in two weeks. I will do more acting in those two weeks

than you could ever fit into four months with your conventional filming. over the years are you good with the downtime i mean obviously you in particular james you've done the x-men films so those are ginormous there's just inherently it takes a lot there's a lot of downtime have you always been good at kind of keeping the focus and filling the time in the train yeah i mean look i remember coming off of beth and going to montreal to shoot uh x-men days of future past and i was on stage working my socks off eight shows a week loving it absolutely loving it but literally sweating blood every second i was at work and then you got to there and like that

was a, I got to do some good acting in that movie, but there was so much downtime. I just remember, like, looking around and I'm like, how is anybody stressed? This is an absolute doddle. This is nothing and loving it, just loving life. And being very aware that that kind of worked, you know, it was the parent who was staying at home looking after kids, was working. I was going to have a giggle in Montreal on set. But at the same time, you know, as much as that was an antidote to the hard work you were doing

on stage. after a little while you do get frustrated. You are like, oh my God, it's hours between set-ups and also what you may get. You might spend 16 hours trying to capture eight lines worth of dialogue. And really, is there any of those lines that maybe you've got a day where none of those lines really gets to the heart of anything? You're never really, sometimes you're not really doing much

when it even gets to your bit. And so doing something like this, which was about, I mean, really, as much as it feels, people keep saying the word theatrical, it actually felt way more natural and realistic. And even though you're talking to the audience, aren't we just talking to your mate? Aren't you just talking to the audience when you're talking to your mate in the pub?

Aren't you just talking to the audience when you're talking to your mom on the phone? And that's what this feels like. That's what this kind of talking to the audience feels like for me. Yeah, I mean, I ask my audience always for suggested questions and certainly one of the questions that came up from Jen, and Jen Kaden wanted to know, how was it acting directly to camera? And my follow-up would be this, like, yeah,

who are you imagining on the other end of that camera? Are you speaking to someone specifically or what? Well, initially when we were rehearsing, there was no camera. It was just Stephen Doldry, sort of prancing around the place, like, you know, and so we were talking to him, and we did discuss it a lot, you know, what it should.

And I remember asking Dennis, I was like who, because initially it was going to be a play and then, you know, all the theatres shot down. I mean, so you would have been talking to an audience. So we sort of, in the end, it was just like Stephen was an guest in our home, you know, he was someone who didn't necessarily want to hear about our relationship, but we were going to tell him and we each wanted to, you know, get him on side,

kind of like you do in marriage therapy or kind of like want the counselor to be on your side. Right, yeah, you hear me, right? I mean, you can hear me from, I mean, obviously, yeah. But, you know, I, if I'm really, really honest, I can't remember exactly what we landed on. All I know is that for me, it was a really new thing to do and that the big thing I had to get over

was not looking away. You know, like I had to sort of hold eye contact, which I found kind of hard because I'm really shifty. And so Stephen just kept saying, you know, like even when I do one where I felt like I was really, really connecting with him, it would be the first thing he'd say to me when we, you know, when we, when we cut, he'd be like, keep looking away.

So I had to sort of learn it. This might sound like an absurd thing to talk to professional actors about, but I'm always like, I just don't have a great memory for memorizing stuff. And in my job, I sometimes have to do small amounts of dialogue and I can barely handle that. but the sheer amount that you guys are handling and certainly you've done theatre obviously you know how to do this

but like does this come naturally again this is a 10 day shoot you've got about a week and a half of rehearsal do you absorb that stuff quickly like are you both like just so in the zone that there's not even a question of like forgetting a line or if you do you just roll with it or what we definitely forgot lines

there was a point where because we'd be doing 13 minute 14 minute takes and there was a point where we kept messing it up we kept messing it up we kept messing up and we kept stopping if we messed up which then gave us permission to stop when we messed up so the next time we did it we'd invariably make a mistake and then we'd stop you're like we're never going to get through this and remember we sort caught each other and we were like right whatever happens you just push through doesn't matter

whether you shut your pants in the middle of a take you push through do you know what I mean maybe we maybe I shan myself because I pushed through but um but you you just and then honestly the minute we had that conversation with each other, there were less mistakes and we did just get it done. And yeah, of course, there's still mistakes and there's still things that you weren't entirely happy with. It's always going to be a choice when it's something that is one take like that. But it was really, really interesting to do. Look, I love talking to the audience and I love having lots to do and lots to say if it's well written. And that was the big thing. But I haven't worked that hard since I was at school and I had to like learn shit off by heart.

you know I that my favorite review of all our reviews was the one that talked about how many lines we had to learn and and when my dad called me to say well done he he was like Jesus I don't know how you remembered all that dialogue sharon I was like yes someone noticed it was like I found it really hard like as hard as the acting bit I mean it's shit loads to learn in very little time so I is there one is there a one no I totally have mad respect for it is there a line of over the years that has haunted you. I mean, again, not to keep going back to like X-Men stuff, but there's a lot of techno babble stuff, particularly in the stuff you've done over the years, James, I think of. Or for you, Sharon, you've done so much work. Are there lines that just like, to this day

are stuck in your head, in your nightmares? Well, I did a series called the increasingly poor decisions of Todd Margaret, and I traveled back from LA to do it. I'd like one day to recover, and I was doing a scene with, Spike Jones and Will Arnett and David Cross and every single thing left my head

and was gone forever, you know, and it wasn't, so David was like, you know, just step off and have a think. And I was like, fucking pointless, pointless. I'd go out and read it and I'd come back and it would just, nothing. I was so mortified. And I think about that all the time.

And it's horrible. It's horrible. nightmare with those people looking at me. Just awful. But let's relive some horrible story for you, James. Even the score. What do you got? Oh my God. I don't know. I mean, I think I'm just really good at remember it now. Look, I totally, do you know what it is though? I forget my lines all the time. I forgot my lines on stage doing Shakespeare, just recently doing Rostan. Like, I forget my lines all the time, but I generally just blag it and make it. I'm not going to stop talking until I get back to a line that is actually in the script.

And that's generally what I do. I'm like, I'm going to see as much as I need to say, as much ridiculous Pesh as I need to get out of my mouth until I get back on target. That's the thing about Shakespeare. You can just improvise Shakespeare very easily. You can just make it up. Try improvising rhyming couplet of Shakespeare.

It is ridiculous. You mentioned a project that I've actually very, very curious about James. I love Claire Foy, and I love this. the background of this project. So yes, this is kind of an improvised thriller that you shot? What can you say about my son? My son is directed by Christian Carri-on.

What a carry-on it was. And he's made this film once before. In France, his ideal is that he makes it every couple of years in a different country, different language, different actors, and see what happens. Because the lead actor doesn't have a script, doesn't know what's going to go on from one minute to the movie.

next and he just lets you go. So like my first day I show up and I don't want to give any other way, but my first day I show up literally drive to these location, this GPS coordinates and Claire's standing there doing something. And I'm like, all right, here we go. Apart from the fact that I've known Claire for years and I'm like, all right, Claire. But yeah, it was pretty crazy. How did you not laugh, James?

How did you not just, I would just have laughed all the way through. well there was a couple of moments there was a bit where Gary Lewis shows up and I'm like all right Gary it's quite hard and then another point like a guy like jumped out of something and tried to do something to me

and I was like oh it's Jamie Mickey we've been playing football together for like 15 years and yeah so it was quite funny a couple of times and they're like they're there to preserve the kind of the reality of it all and you are but they're also preserving

the sort of the anyway, Blah Blah, it's another movie. You're like the Star of You're on Punk's show. You're like in a reality show where they're just, that's amazing. And for you, Sharon. It's great film within a film that you should make that every other year when he's not making.

There you go. Sharon, you're always obviously very busy. Among the many projects on your slate, did you shoot the Nicholas Cage movie? This very strange. So on the Nicholas Cage scale of Crazy Nicholas Cageiness, this is him playing a version of Nicholas Cage. Cage, how insane a Nick Cage experience did you have in the best possible way, I hope?

Oh, in the best possible way, it was, you know, it was completely insane. I mean, not because he's playing himself and he's playing a younger, well, he's playing a version of himself. Right. And then he's playing a version of a younger version of himself. And it's super meta. And it's also like a sort of, you know, it's, it's a, it's a, it's a thriller and it's, you know, there's like high speed chases and, and like everything you could possibly want. You know, there was one day where he'd sort of been recording his lines the night before

because it's how he sort of learns them and he came in and he, you know, decided to do them in a certain way. and he was sort of playing the person laughing his head off. And that was a real sort of, you know, I never thought I would be in a Jeep doing an action movie with Nick Cage where he's playing me the ones that he'd recorded the night before. And but it was, oh, it was just the best one ever. But it was also weirdly in the midst of lockdown. Like we shot out in Budapest and it locked down hard when we were there.

So we were just in this hotel with nowhere to go. and really nothing to do. And, you know, it was intense in that way. Also, I decided in order to, like, really feel and take in the moment of working with Nick Cage that I would watch Nick Cage movies in the evening so that I wasn't just being more, like, blaze about it. So that was weird, you know.

I'd come in the morning and talk to him about, you know, something I'd watched night before. I know that sounds good, but I had to do it. I love it, I love it. Yeah, I spoke to Pedro Pascal. briefly at the end of it. It seemed like it was an experience for all of them. I can't wait to see how it turned out. Guys, thank you so much for the time tonight. This was a little bit of shorter version of the podcast that I usually do, but I couldn't resist the chance to catch up with my

favorite kissing band at Mr. James McAvoy. And to meet you, Sharon, because I'm such a fan. Congratulations on the film guys. And I look forward to catching up with you guys soon. You too. Take care, George. And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes. or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't

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