Happy Sad Confused - AHSOKA (Rosario Dawson & Hayden Christensen & Dave Filoni)

Episode Date: June 13, 2024

The force is strong with this one! Josh welcomes 3 members of STAR WARS royalty to chat about AHSOKA, their favorite STAR WARS memories, and the future! Rosario Dawson, Hayden Christensen, and Dave Filon are all on the podcast finally! SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS! ZocDoc -- Go to ⁠Zocdoc.com/HappySad⁠ and download the Zocdoc app for FREE Betterhelp -- Visit ⁠BetterHelp.com/HSC⁠ to get 10% off your first month UPCOMING LIVE EVENTS ⁠⁠The Boys cast -- June 18th in NYC -- Get tickets here Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes, video versions of the podcast, and more! To watch episodes of Happy Sad Confused, subscribe to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Josh's youtube channel here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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from 20-odd years ago, did you ever imagine that saying you hate sand in a scene, an attack of the clones, would follow you for decades? Did you feel that in the moment? If you're at the beach, does any jerk like me come over and be like, hey, dude, I thought you hate sand. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now. I'm Josh Horowitz, and today on Happy, Say, Confused,

it's a big one for my not-so inner Star Wars. geek soul. Master Yoda was wrong with all due respect. It's not always two. There are today. There are three. We were all thrilled last year at the Disney Plus series, Asoka, and here they are. That shows writer-director, and not to mention pretty much the heir to the Star Wars Empire. It's

Mr. Dave Palloni. He loved that. He loved that. You both love that. That's very funny. No pressure, Dave. And of course, we have Asoka herself, Rosario Dawson. Welcome to the podcast, Rosario. Good to see you. And deep breaths, guys. We have Anakin Skywalker to his friends, Darth Vader, to his enemies. It's Mr. Hayden Christensen. Welcome

to all. Good to you again, man. Good to see you. Congratulations on this show, guys. I mean, one of the real benefits of my job is I get to spend a weekend revisiting a show like Asoka and call it work. So thank you for that. That's how we felt every day working on. it and making it. I feel it's it I feel it in the in the finished product. First of all for Rosario and Hayden have you ever gone to Dave with a Star Wars war question that he has not had the answer to? No it's not possible. Yeah it's impossible literally impossible. It's possible. Is there one hardcore deep Star Wars note that he ever gave you that really stands out? I don't know. I feel like I feel like a lot of your direction day is is sort of subversive too.

Like you're you're sort of indirect with your direction. You know, you like to paint a picture and sort of, you know, take the actor along with with this idea. And it's all very conversational. And that was something that I really enjoyed and respected. Yeah, I love that. A lot of storytelling and kind of like building the world. I would say what I loved was always remembering to ground it in what he had said he learned from George was that, you know, this is for kids, you know what I mean? And we're supposed to have fun and to kind of keep it in sort of that space and remembrance, you know, as heavy and intense as some of the scenes and dynamics and worlds, it was always to make sure that it also could be very understandable to a child and be something that a family could enjoy and appreciate together. and I loved that levity and like kind of remembering that all the time. It's also about like everybody, I think all of us included and everybody that enjoys this show, you know, we all grew up with Star Wars and it all touched us at different times and it's often like very formative.

And like, you know, I think back to my youth and I think back to seeing Jedi when I was seven and having that goose bump emotional moment where like, you know, Luke says I'm, you know, has that confrontation with Darth, right? and I'm near tears as a seven-year-old and I'm not even sure why. And I'm curious, like, if we can go around, I'd just be curious to hear like what that Star Wars moment is for you that jumps out. Like the most emotional Star Wars,

goosebumps on the arm moment is for you going back into the history of the series. Dave, let's start with you. It depends. I mean, I would say there's a, there are different moments for different ways you want to feel. I think one of the most relatable moments is probably,

just this image of Luke staring at the suns wondering what he's doing with his life. And I think that that's something that almost everyone can relate to at some point. You know, if there's a bright center of the universe, you live in the place that's farthest from. You know, that's something that we all understand because we always feel like we're missing out. And so much of Star Wars is about growing up and coming into your own and finding responsibility. It's exactly the same, just drawn in a different way than, than George's work in American Graffiti. You know, the images of that small town

and breaking away from your peer group and saying, no, I want to do something different. I'm going to go out onto the world. You know, it's the same type of adventure. And so I think that George used to say Star Wars is him telling very old stories in a very new way. And now that it's become this massive franchise, you can get lost in all those details

and all that information and all the lore but at the heart of it you know for all of us it's our struggle against you know being a good person or a bad person you know making better choices than not giving into our fears giving into our frustrations our anger and that's why these stories are so relatable and you can find so many moments you know you can relate to the i love you i know moment a because it's brilliant but be because who hasn't, you know, felt something for a person, then you just can't find the words.

You just, until it's too late, you know, and it's so you're in this fantastic setting of Star Wars, but you're finding these moments, you're experiencing these moments that it's probably, you just had at the mall across the street before you went into the theater. I come from an air when malls were a thing, so kids don't know referencing.

Not Darth Mall. Not Darth's Mall. Don't go to that mall. The mall where the arcade was in the record shop and all that stuff. Anyway, so yeah, I would say look into twin sons without taking more of your time. No, no, I want to hear all of it. But it's exactly what you say, right?

Because like the icing on the cake is, of course, the battles and the lightsabers and the force and the Jedi. It just so happens there's a lot of damn icing in Star Wars to enjoy. But underneath it all is that emotion. Does anything jump out for you? I mean, it's such an interesting, you know, you guys are part of this universe, but I'm sure you still retain that love. Because you first were a fan before you were a part of it. Yeah, yeah. For me, I think probably the first time I watched Star Wars and sort of the opening shot of C3PO and R2D2, you know, walking across the desert and having this conversation and just these two robots that we were supposed to sort of emotionally invest in was just new for me. And then I think seeing Darth Vader for the first time and trying to figure out who he was. That was a big thing.

for me and just the mystery around this character and trying to was he a robot too or is that a man underneath there and and and it just sort of really captured my imagination in a way that that nothing else really had prior to that point yeah I mean the the years on the couch that could have spawned for you the fact that you ended up being that guy I know right who was underneath the mask yes something very very serendipitous there or fortuitous yeah totally Rosario I love you, I know moment as well. And one of the things I always quote all the time is there is no try only do, which, you know, I think is actually really helpful for me sometimes when I'm trying to make a decision and to bring action to it, you know, and not get too lost because I can overthink things a lot. But I, you know, one of the things that I love so much and being able to see how it's kind of been connective tissue through the animation, through the show with Obi-Wan and through the films is, you know, that moment of breaking through that armor of Darth Vader's and being able to see his face. And one of the things that I loved

so much about that, you get to see Asoka break one side. You get to see Obi-Wan break another. But it's Luke that really kind of really breaks through to him. And I think for me, that's probably the thing I go to the most because the thing I love so much about Star Wars is the fact that it's how complicated it is to be a Jedi and how confronted they regularly are and challenged they are every single day. And it's not a childish version of like the good guy and the bad guy in the corner like spinning his mustache and her and just being blanket evil. It's about that you're constantly being pulled and maybe compelled to fall into your anger, your despair, whatever it is. And have to pull yourself back and be disciplined.

And I think that moment of being able to see Luke with his father and see him and his father finally really be able to see him as well. And despite how terrible he is with younglings and beyond and how violent and abusive and terrible he became, he was still able to be seen and be able to reach that light again. And that's a character that you can. so formidable you could imagine is beyond, you know, ever being reached. And yet he was. And he was given that opportunity actually to turn and make a different choice. And that's ultimately how long had it been since he'd actually really been properly pushed to say, think again about it. Like,

you can be something different than what you'd been before. And I love how we call that back again in Asoka. As she's been despairing and still feeling guilty maybe about her choice to leave the Jedi and what that could have complicated for him and his dark choices that he made later. And him challenging her is like, is that all that I am? And you have to see the wholeness of me. And it, I think, allows her to see the wholeness of herself. And I think that's why this story has lived on generationally is because it is something we can all really relate to. It makes it very real and not fantastical in fantasy. It's actually very grounded and really quite beautiful. It's a really important lesson, I think.

I don't, you know, anyone watching this, I think, knows by now the, like, story of how you were cast in this, which is just like, you know, a miracle upon miracle and just wonderful story. But what I'm curious about is, okay, when you finally get cast and you get into costume, you get into makeup, I'm sure, a flood of emotions. But I also, I don't know, is there trepidation right before you start shooting because you have to sell this. This is a big look. This is a big look to, it's one thing to do it in animation. And Dave, you can speak to this, too. but to sell it in live action. Did you have the confidence right from the get-go

when you first inhabited this character, Rosario? I mean, I think I had so much exuberance and excitement, especially with Asoka living on and this being a new story. And we had so much training and rehearsal, so that really helped. And having Dave right there by the camera and believing, you know, like, I think that was really what helped me

to get past whatever sense of trepidation I might have had, that I honestly don't recall. It was more, you know, it's a challenge to bring anything to live action. But I luckily had a little bit of experience of that in the past and working on different, you know, like comic book adaptations and stuff. And so even taking something from a play into, you know, into a movie and, you know, and just knowing that there's a vast fan base there that, you know, is really, you know, not necessarily looking for something wrong, but like really looking.

looking to be drawn in again, really looking for this story to continue, really looking to continue loving this character in this world and hoping that they don't, they don't, that there's something that becomes untethered, you know? And so for me, what I just felt so grateful for was having just like so much history to watch and to learn from and to build on. And I just took that so seriously. I think that's really what my mind frame was mostly was just honoring this character and honoring as a fan, you know, this continuation of this journey and story and just feeling really grateful. I still am like unbelievably grateful and excited and like mindblown that I get to not only just see it as a fan, but like get to be a part of it. Like it, I'm still

pinching myself regularly. Hayden, you're one of a handful of human beings to ever be directed by both George Lucas and Dave Follody. Compare and contrast. Let's put Dave on the spot. Any similarities? Well, I mean, just in terms of how they approach the work. I mean, there's so much lore about George, about, you know, faster, slower, you know, the very precise directions. That's more intense, yeah.

Yeah, faster, more intense. The language of the direction is much different. Yeah. But the commonality is, is. is there because, you know, Dave was a student of George Lucas and all of his understanding comes from time spent with George and, of course, from being a fan before that too. And you really get a sense of that. And for me, that was what was so comforting was that I really felt that he was wanting to honor

sort of what George had created. and, you know, obviously, you know, move it forward and make it his own, but really wanting to sort of keep sort of the themes in line with what George was trying to communicate. But, yeah, I mean, you know, how they direct, they're much different in how they approach their craft of directing. flights on Air Canada. Oh, wow. Majorca, that's new. Oh, nice. But Vienna is a classic Mozart, palaces and schnitzel. Now you're cooking.

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Nice travels. Simons celebrates freedom of expression with a daily ritual of getting dressed. Fashion's power lies in its endless possibilities. Each garment is an invitation to get creative, be unique, and show the world exactly who you are as you are. Be true, be authentic, be unapologetically you. Express yourself at Simons. From a writing standpoint, Dave, you know, you have all these, like, arrows in your quiver, like, as, you know, being in the Star Wars world, like, when to dole out a May the Force be with you line, when to drop in a little bit of the Force theme, John Williams. Is that just instinct, like, you know, a little goes a long way?

Like, how do you decide when to kind of lean into a moment like that? It's tricky because I think just saying and experiencing those things won't make what you're working on Star Wars. it's kind of like a quick and easy formula but I do know when I write May the Force with you that the actor that gets to say it will like remind the other actors that they got to say it and you know it becomes a thing but it's you have to save it especially now we have so much going on you know theatrically in live action streaming animated series you don't want it to become you know this thing that's expected it has to have value in the story so you say these things the same way you would say something like that in life if it was real it's not a

catchphrase and you approach it like that you you know i'm always trying to to get to what these characters are really experiencing what their life is like more than saying okay so what what makes this feel star wars when i worked on clone wars with george i found the stories that we did that were the less like what he had done in the movies the more it started to feel like star wars because it was new and we were able to own it and we weren't reminding people of a movie that was significantly greater than what we were experiencing in the animated show you know it's like when i was a kid in new hope watching that i didn't know there were snow walkers i didn't know there was a cloud city i didn't know there was a swamp planet i don't know luke's next teacher would be a frog

like there were so many things that george just created that we take for granted and the prequels are like that too you know we take for granted how easily he makes his creation come to life this is the Jedi Council, this is the Jedi Temple, this is Corrassan, you know, go down the list, Nabu forms of government, different, you know, types of aliens. It just all comes to him with such ease. And having been around that creation, I have a great respect for it and George. And I want nothing more than for his legacy to be intact and to expand in ways that I think he would be proud. And, you know, I'm fortunate to get to work with a great team of people on the shows that I've been able to make both in animation and live action

and there's a responsibility as other people come in and challenge things and say, well, what about this? You know, that's a good thing. It's a good thing to get different points of view. It's a good thing to have new ideas and to have new creatives pushing the boundaries. You know, my instinct is always, okay, wait a minute, but then I think about it and it becomes exciting.

And so, you know, I've done a lot of things that are different and strange in Star Wars with like this world, between worlds and, you know, riding giant wolves and things I like. It has to be a part of what you like. And, you know, with John Williams music, Kevin Kiner and I tried to use it very, very, very sparingly. It was written very specifically for the moments in the films that it's evoking emotion and feeling a response.

And you can't just lay that over anything. It has to be a moment. Kevin and I always talk about that is saying the same thing the music was intended to say. And then, you know, we can use it. We come up with our own themes, our own identity for it. So Soka's personality, you know, Thron's personality, Sabine's personality is represented as surely as I was a kid and knew all the themes of all the characters and the force. So I think we used the theme of the force when Sabine finally uses it because it was meant

to highlight her moment of breakthrough. And we only hit it in a graceful way and that we get away from it. So, you know, it's a matter respecting the people that were there before and that great work. And wanting our work to stand on its own for its own thing, too, for kids to grow up and say, I love that moment when Assoca and Sabine were there. That was my moment, you know. And so that's kind of how we look at it. Well, that's another thing that struck me rewatching it again is, like, again, like,

people always were looking at the connections to the original films. And, like, the biggest connection to me when I was watching it again was like, it reminded me that those first three films are, about friendships and found family and breaking up the family and trying and going on an adventure to try to reunite the family. And this series is so much about these fractures and the way these folks come back together. And that's why it's so emotionally powerful. And I think that's why it worked for an audience. I mean, again, the icing is great. The force is great. The lightsabers are great. But it's the emotion underneath. There's no question there. That's just something I saw. So talk to me.

This is interesting what you said, because I was going to bring this up later. Like, you talk about sort of how much you can push and pull what Star Wars is. And I feel like there's this constant, like, battle. And like, Rosario, I think you mentioned this. Like, you know, Star Wars was meant initially, you know, it's for kids. Like, it's like, that's really what it is. And look, I'm a 48-year-old man and I love it. And that's great.

But it is also for kids. So, like, is there a place for R-rated Star Wars for edgier Star Wars? Like, how do you react to that day? because you know the fans some fans want that sure i mean i don't know i think it's interesting it the bottom line is whatever we do it has to be really well done i think when you look at something that is taken as different like and or it's so well done and tony and his team do such a phenomenal job that i think that there's there's an audience for that you know i think also with that audience i also though want to still be you know hitting the imagination of of the kids out there

so that they can grow up and appreciate those things. It's, you know, I watch, it's almost like your taste, right, for food. Your taste in cinema and visuals changes as you get older. When you're low, my dad had me watch Seven Samurai when I was a kid because he knew I liked Star Wars and he knew George worked with Corosawa. I'm not going to sit there and pretend I understood any of that when I was little. I mean, it was a lot. It was a lot for me to get through.

And I didn't understand what he was talking about. And he was saying, well, the Hidden Fortress is like Star Wars. I'm like, okay, dad, I don't, that's really hard to see when you're 10, you know, but as you get older, you're like, oh my gosh, it's right there and it's hitting you in the face. You appreciate it in a different way. You appreciate the way that these films got made. Just how do they even accomplish these things with the equipment they had? They were breaking ground. They were finding new ways to do things. And that is in the DNA of Star Wars, you know, a love of filmmaking. So I think that it encompasses all types of styles and, you know, the creative. of the particular story driving it is kind of the most important thing. And they should do something that's within their comfort zone. Otherwise, we're to imagine that everyone's going to come and pretend that they're George Lucas. And I'll tell you right away, they're not. Like, I learned from George, but I'm certainly not the same as George when it comes to making movies.

I mean, George is a one-of-a-kind, you know, generational talent. I like wolves and put them in my Star Wars. You know, it's like we're just different. And that's okay because there are principles, like I said, about choices and being a good person and being more selfless and getting over your fears. And those are timeless no matter what style you're talking about. You know, if you're dealing with Cassie and Andor's struggles about doing the right thing and being a better person and you're dealing with Sabine's struggles about really committing to something and being involved and what does it mean to be a Jedi, it's similar, but it's through a different lens, you know? and I think it's a strong thing these days that we're in a time when people have options

and can like things in a different way and maybe if you never saw Star Wars before and you say, well, I watched this one show and I liked it, it's a door that opens to get you to watch other things and it becomes this collaborative community. You'll never find a greater band community than Star Wars when it comes to celebrations

because they're all there loving the same thing and they're like different aspects of it now and they might debate each other. But at the end of the day, they all like the same thing and that's a great feeling it's a great feeling because people feel seen and they feel included and that's really what we're shooting for here is this this community of you know may the force be with you and what a crazy thing that this one guy invented it george and we might expand it but i think we always got to remember the root of it so we don't lose our way

in the galaxy what's your what do you do you call upon george like when you still need to have a question. Like, is there a George phone, like, in a pinch what you think about this? I am very, very, very respectful of his time. You know, he has a museum to finish, which is going to be a phenomenal experience and project for everyone to see.

It never seems to amaze me how George just gives always in his whole life, you know, whether it's the jobs that we all get to have even when he's gone, telling stories, in the galaxy that he created or whether it's, you know, building a museum so so many kids can experience art, narrative art, and be inspired by that art, maybe someday tells stories themselves. He's just always giving it. And so I'm very cautious. You know, I've had a lot of mentoring from him. And the answer is, yes, I do every now and then. But it's got to be something

really important for me to go and seek him out now. And yet even when I do it, it feels very mythical to go and to go before him and talk and he's the most humble guy but yeah i mean it was the greatest asset on clone words it was the greatest confidence to know that he was there to know that no matter what we did he was the backstop and it had to be a little bit like maybe aniken felt sometimes with obiwan like obiwan's got my back i know he's there and so when he's not there it's you know it's a bit more you're flying free flying down that trench and you're figuring am I going to hit that exhaust board? I don't always know, but we do our best.

You know, we do it. We don't try. We do our best. Is there an open door policy to George if he had an idea for another story? The door's always open. You want to write something. You want to direct something. Come on back.

Would you say no? What would you say? I say no. I'm not a maniac. He read the building from George. So he has all the keys anyway. I can come right in. He has the pass.

It's not going to. It's got the code. I'll tell you, whatever he would come up with would be different. He was always the most surprising in what he would do and how he would push things. And even when it's a simple thing now to people like Asoka calling Anakin Sky Guy or him calling her Snips, at first I was like, I don't, wow, I never saw that in Star Wars. Like, how does that work? And as it went on, years later, you start to see, oh, this is like little brother, big brother, little sister talk.

And so now, I mean, it pays off for us all these years later when he says Snips. It's like an emotional moment for people that grew up with it. Like they grew up with Asoka. And I always think he's so, he has such keen insight on those type of human things that make characters real, that make his galaxy real. It's not just that the, you know, the starships look worn, the things like lived in. He creates a lived in world because the characters have experience and they're very knowledgeable. of their world they've lived a life and that's what

he kind of taught us when we worked in animation in animation you control everything it can be tricky and so regards to your earlier question for me it was a question of how do I let go of all

that control I have over Asoka how she smirks how her eyebrow raises how she fights what she does all the references if I don't like it you know it's like drawing I could easily go and erase the drawing and change the drawing I can change the animation. I can zero in.

Part of what I started to crave after working with George and understanding his process and filmmaking was, boy, in live action, you let go of a lot of that, you collaborate. You let the actor become the thing and they live in front of you and you're capturing this experience.

It's just there in the spark of the moment. It's something that I could never really get in animation because we're planning. Despite everybody being so talented, it's just a different thing. And so, you know, first meeting Rosario was, you know, exciting, well, will she really be, like, the kind of person that,

how are we going to work together, all of that? And then I met her, and I'm like, oh, that's, that's cool. So we'll see, in the costume, what you can look like, okay, so that's cool. Everything just kept working. And then I'm like, well, here we go. We're going to, we're going to film something. But I remember it was just even when we walked through a scene,

her command of the moment of the character, she just became the character. And I had such a weight lifted that I could, okay, So that's taken care of. I'm going to worry about everything else now. There's so much more in this shot, so much more in this story to worry about. I don't really worry about what Rosario is doing.

Honestly, I never see Rosario, when I'm upset. Because by the time I get there, she already is Asoka. And she's getting that stuff off, she's still Asoka. So I see Rosario Dawson every now and then heading to her car in the evening.

Right. Tom was like, where you've been all day? Because I've been talking to Osoka. She had a rough one with the lightsaber is getting hit today. It was something. but you know that guy at one point

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keep up with. I'm Brad Milkey. I'm the host of Start Here, the daily podcast from ABC News, and every morning my team and I get you caught up on the day's news in a quick, straightforward way that's easy to understand with just enough context so you can listen, get it, and go on with your day. So, kickstart your morning. Start Smart with Start Here and ABC News, because staying informed shouldn't feel overwhelming. I mean, for you, Rosario, we haven't even mentioned, like, look, I mean, the key episode in the series for many, obviously is episode five and the Shadow Warrior episode. And it's so curious to me because, like, you guys are paying off this relationship that you've never depicted, but you two have never actually done. So there's all this history.

So what is the challenge and the opportunity for you? I mean, that must have felt like, again, a great opportunity and some pressure, but to, like, build that backstory with no, I mean, I know. I know you guys have known each other for a long time, but you've never depicted this relationship before. No. I mean, it's what was great is that I'd had a chance in Mandalorian and Boba Fett and up until that point in the series to be and grapple with where she is now in her life. And then in this episode, we have this opportunity to go back into that Snipp Sky Guy

relationship. And it's exciting. Like it was, it was so beautiful. I watched so much of Clone Wars and Rebels as like watching memories and really kind of taking it in in that way. And so it was really beautiful to allow this other version of Asoka that we're so familiar with, but through the filter where she is now, kind of appear. And I love what you talk about as well. This is an Anakin who is observing the fullness of his whole life very differently than he was in those particular moments.

But this is sort of this more abstract, surreal expression of the breath of this character and this relationship. And so there was almost like a feeling of like fourth wall being broken. You know, there was such a different heightened awareness of it and this like ethereal kind of magical thing because she's kind of not sure where she just came from. She doesn't know where she's going. And they're just present. this different kind of way and this conversation is just so special. And I think such a wonderful

opportunity and an invitation into a different space for her that she can't control, something that, you know, which I think she's been very controlled and very disciplined for a very long time, grappling with all that she's been grappling with. And what I love also particularly about this episode is not just the two of us, you know, in that, but that you get to see what Ariana brings. in the history and story and really kind of challenge, like even your memory of what the Clone Wars was because you watched it in the animation, which feels very different than when you're watching it in live action.

And all of a sudden, you're seeing this very young warrior in these really trying circumstances. And it actually shifted my own perspective of what I had watched in the animation to see it in live action. Like it really took my breath away to go, my gosh like you know she's young and you're thinking about how spunky and punky she is but like when you really see her and she's so small and like bombs and smoke and everything going around you're like she's a child yeah totally the midst of all of this and i i gained so much

particularly from that of being able to really kind of hone in like no wonder you know this burden that she's kind of lived with for so long and just the intensity you know that that that she has because this is what she's really lived through. And it made it very real for me in a different way than just thinking about it as a memory. It very much grounded it. And really, I think, was very helpful in the episodes continuing on. It's not just her costume that lightens. You know, there's a lightning of her as well. And that was just so beautiful to be able to experience and to embody. Hayden, one of the ancillary joys, I think, of this experience of seeing Asoka and you in Obi-1 has been just the love out there to see you back as this character.

And I know you feel that. And I'm curious, like, you've always received the love. I need all these years. But do you feel something different now from fans than you did five or ten years ago? Is there a palpable difference in the way that you experienced the fandom? Yeah, for sure. Just because a lot of the people that saw these films when they were kids have grown up now. and they've had kids and they've shared these films with their kids

and it's become this generational thing of these stories being passed down and they really mean something to them and it's it's been really nice to get to experience that from the fan base and just just so cool to get to come back and now get to be a part of it again and play this character some more and just be a part of Star Wars because I love Star Wars.

I genuinely do and, you know, and I missed it. So this has been a real privilege for me. I really loved, sorry, but like one of the things I really loved listening to you talking about it was, you know, because the animation is like so different than the version that you got to sort of experience in the films and like then as well in Obi-Wan, like just being able to explore this character, you know, for me, so much of this character has been. explored in animation. But for you, you've gotten, like, in the different stages of your own filming, get to, like, really embody this character from so many different depth. And now bringing this relationship to live action, you know, there was something daunting about it because it had been so well developed over the course of many seasons of Clone Wars, and we wanted to honor that. And for sure, we had sort of a leg up because we have our own

history. But that definitely put a slightly different slant on the character, you know, because he has a Padawan now. You know, in the prequels, Anakin was kind of like an elite athlete in a way. You know, he was very focused

on like being the best Jedi in the galaxy and, you know, and of course he's aware of this sort of moniker of being the chosen one and he wants to live up to that. So he's very kind of focused on his own development. you know, even though Jedi are supposed to be thinking about others, Anakin still thought a lot about himself.

First warning sign, there you go. Exactly. But you give him a Padawan and that just totally, you know, turns things upside down. And I'm sure that was part of the impetus for doing it. But, you know, now he has someone that he has to, you know, keep alive and care for and encourage their own development. It's a bit like becoming a parent in a way. And it just radically changes things.

So that was really cool to get to sort of explore some of that. I wouldn't be able to forgive myself if I didn't ask you, Hayden, some 20 odd years ago. Did you ever imagine that saying you hate sand in a scene, an attack of the clones, would follow you for decades? Did you feel that in the moment? I had no idea, no. And I always enjoyed that scene, and I appreciated sort of where the sentiment was coming from. And, you know, it was sort of a powerful metaphor for, you know, his sort of the, the sort of uncomfortableness of his upbringing in a lot of ways. But, yeah, people really, really took to that line.

If you're at the beach, does any jerk like me come over and be like, hey, dude, I thought you hate sand. I've gotten that couple times. came to set when you, when you came into the world and he gets there and he's standing there in the Anglican Clovers off. It looks amazing. And I walked up, I think you go to me. I think everyone was right, you go, sand. Really? Your whole step. Maybe I'd offended you or something. But just sand. I had it. We're doing this again, really. He's just covered the entire set and sand. And we got to run through it. And you got these elaborate sets and you got to stand on the floor. But you know what's funny?

you mentioned about um their relationship being built on the clone wars etc but yeah way i look at it right and when i wrote it it's no different than when i watched the new hope and obi won confronted vader that relationship is predicated on an entire history that they had at the clone wars that i'm only briefly introduced to with obiwan talking to look about it but it's it's really key to the whole thing and so in the series, I do set that up when Hara mentions Asoka's mentor and she brings up he never finished my training. You're getting

all the clues that if this is the only show you've ever watched, you understand oh, that's her mentor. Right. Right. And now she's going to confront this and this has been a hang up for her because it's been in the previous episodes. And whether let's say, let's imagine that like you have

no idea who Darth Vader is, right? Because I know it's hard, but because of the design of it, right? because of the red lightsaber, because of the iconic look of it, people know that's an evil incarnation. Probably not a good dude, yeah. Right, you don't need to know.

But if you do, of course, it's better. And I think about quite a bit now, how it's so strange now as a Star Wars kid that they can watch a new hope, here, Obi-Won, talk about the Clone Wars, and literally go and watch it. Right. Where for me, I was like,

what in the world is a Clone War? How did that even work? I had no idea. I'd be the person later on to actually make that happen. But it's, you know, and it's an interesting thing. Like, they have so many options to view this history and go down this spiral of endless Star Wars. It's interesting compared to where we started where I saw episode four and I was like, Dad, why don't you tell me there were these movies?

And he's like, but this is the only one. But Dad's episode four. Where's the cinematic universe? Come on. Yeah. No such word back then. We're almost at a time. A couple quick things.

The good news, Dave, is you're not going to give me any answers to this, but I'm going to ask you anyway. Oh, goody. I know what it's about then. Okay. Over a year ago, it was announced. You have a live action Star Wars movie coming. Where are we at? Is there a script?

Give me some hope. You know, very exciting stuff. Very exciting stuff. I work in very long threads. And so for me, telling a story. I always have to know where is this going what's the outcome of this is going to be and fans that have followed my work

know this about Clone Wars about you know when I started Clom Wars I had a good idea of how it was going to end it changed a bit as we went on but it's still fairly relative to the things that happened I at the time didn't know Darth Mall was going to be in it that was a George curveball but George you know he's allowed to do that

so I knew how Rebels was going to end I because I've been writing season two of Asoka things have clicked than I have a much better idea about where things are going to go and I will say I have an opening I really like quite a bit

I'm very excited about it for that picture and I'm excited about the potential of just doing it but right now my focus is very clearly on season two as well as the rest of the galaxy and how it's spinning but I am excited

it's funny because every now and then there'll be something I get where someone says what my movie's about online and I'm like oh that's interesting I should read that and see if there's any good idea in there that was a way on but I never do

I actually stay I'm very good at staying away from a lot of that stuff and but I love that the fans imagine I love that they're excited about it I'm excited about it but you know one foot in front of the other right now though I think it's you know for me it's going well it's at its normal

development point in the way I make these stories happen. And so we'll see. It's been fun to really dive into and I'm working with John on his movie. And that's exciting. And, you know, all the other things that we're developing. It's different for me now than it was before

because now I'm involved in everything. Hear to the empire. I said it. I'll say it again. Yeah, I don't know about that. You know, for me, it's a collaboration. And it has to be. I don't, I am not going to come in and I don't tell people what to do. I try to guide them, you know, at best you're Obi-1 and everyone coming in is going to make their trench run.

And you're just trying to get them to let go and trust their instincts and trust the process and do what they're doing. You want everybody to be their best creative self when they're making that run. And that's part of what my guidance is all about. I have to wrap with you guys. I just want to thank you for an amazing season of Star Wars, and I look forward to having each of you on the podcast. I can't believe none of you have ever been on before. I will also, Rosario, I don't know if you know this fun fact.

I have been in two feature films as myself. You know who my only co-star that's appeared in those two films is? Top five, Zombie Land Double Tap, the one and only Rosario Dawson. So you're my good luck, turn, buddy. That's my way of saying, Dave. Yeah, on to the next. He wants to be in the movie. I see. I see. Yeah.

I'm here for you. That was my way. Congratulations, guys. It's good to see you all and best of luck on everything to come. Awesome. Thanks so much. Thank you so much. Nice chatting.

And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't pressure to do this by Josh. Hey, Michael. Hey, Tom. You want to tell him?

What do you want me to tell? No, no, no. I got this. People out there. People lean in. Get close. Get close. Listen.

Here's the deal. We have big news. We got monumental news. We got snack. acular news. After a brief hi, I know, my good friend, Michael Ian Black, and I are coming back. My good friend, Tom Kavanaugh, and I are coming down. to do what we do best.

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