Happy Sad Confused - Alan Alda

Episode Date: December 2, 2019

To love theater, TV, or film, is to love Alan Alda. His warm and reassuring presence has been a part of our pop culture for decades and he's showing no signs of slowing down. At 83, he's a prolific podcaster and actor (his latest film is the fantastic Noah Baumbach dramedy "Marriage Story"). Alan joins Josh on this episode of "Happy Sad Confused" to talk about his life and career and why a fascination with communication is the passionate centerpiece of his existence. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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none of you are safe. New episodes every Wednesday, wherever you get your podcasts. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, Sad, Confused begins now. Today on Happy, Sad, Confused, Alan Alda on communicating and his new film Marriage Story. Hey, guys, I'm Josh Horowitz. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused, the true icon that is Alan Aldo.

I can't believe Alan Aldo was just in my office, Sammy. I can still feel him here. Sammy, of course, back on the podcast for, I don't know, three or four of the last episodes. I can't count. It's a little known fact about Sammy. She has no ability to count. More of an English and history person. But, yeah, Alan Aldo was just here.

He's someone like I'd never even fathomed would be on this podcast. I don't think Alan Alda is of a real person. That's made. He's major. Like, he's too big for this. Yeah, clearly. It was a horrible decision. He regretted it the moment he saw you.

No, we had a good time. Did you know Alan Alda has a podcast? No. It's worth listening to. I've been listening since I knew he was coming on. With that voice. Great voice. Clear and vivid is the podcast.

And you heard me say in the intro about communication. This is kind of the passion of his life, which is how we communicate in all forms, whether it's with loved ones or scientists communicating with each other, politicians, artists. He is obsessed with how we communicate. communicate and how we can communicate better. And in this podcast, I'm plugging his podcast more than my own, but it's a good one. Rightfully so. Everybody's stop listening.

He's not listening to Good Allens podcast. He talks to people in all aspects of life. And it's a really cool array of guests. Definitely check it out. And as you said, he's got one of the best voices in the business. He really does. So comforting. So soothing.

So he came in here, not necessarily to promote the podcast, though we do talk about that. But he's also in the new film Marriage Story. which is from a writer-director Noah Baumbach, who you may know from Squid and the Whale, Greenberg, a whole bunch of great movies. This is his latest. It might be my favorite of his, which is saying a lot.

It's definitely, it's one of my favorites. It's top three or so of the year for me. It's really great. Big to say this early. Yeah, it's going to stick up there. I'm pretty sure. I've only seen it once. I need to go back and see it again.

It stars Adam Driver and Scarlet Johansson. and it's kind of a story of really divorce. It's a couple separating. They have a kid and how they are dealing with, you know, all the complexities of splitting up, including lawyers and custody, et cetera. It's really funny. It's really sweet.

Yeah, great performances. Adam Driver is a real contender to win best actor for this, I think. And he's all, he's like the king of, Christmas season this year he's got that in Star Wars yeah yeah he's everywhere and the Amazon one too oh yeah the report which is also good

the report is worth checking out too he's great he's really great in it and Scarlett one of her best performances too I think she'll be nominated Wardurne is in it oh great I think not to get all too awardsy but I think she could win for supporting actress there's a lot of potential here

is what you're saying and Alan Alda plays Adam Driver's attorney in the film Warden's kind of the attorney on the other side. Got it. And he's great in it. And he's just, yeah, it's kind of, it's a character that has a bit of like that Alan Alda folksy kind of persona, but is also still the distinct from the other stuff he's played.

So this was a delight. He's so easy to talk to. Does he tap dance? He did not tap. You sent me that video. Right before he walked in, hoping that you would see it and realize this is what people want to talk about. So what was it?

That was him and his granddaughter? Yes, tap dancing in his garage. Aw. So I don't understand why you didn't ask him about that. You start your own rival podcast in the office next door. Get the real. That's what you should be doing. You should be grabbing all my guests as they walk out, be like, okay, let's do a real one now.

Yeah, and I dabbled and tap. Let's talk. Well, I wanted to leave room for our next conversation. That's smart, actually. But he is an inspiration. He's 83 years old. He is so, yeah. He's so busy.

He's, he's, he's, he's, sharp as attack. He's doing acting, podcasting, writing. He does it all. And he is an institution that I want to be around forever. So, so thrilled to have Alan Alda on the show today. I should mention marriage story is out in theaters in New York, but it's also going to be on Netflix, December 6th. So you have no excuse, guys. December 6th, you can watch it in the comfort of your own home. That being said, if you're in New York, probably in L.A. 2, see it on a big screen. It's worth it. That's all I got, Sammy.

Oh, that's enough. That's enough, right? We don't need to talk before Alan Alda's coming. No, people are here for the Alda. Yeah, they're not here for us, chit-chatting. All right. Let's get to the main event, Mr. Allen Alda. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to happy, sad, confused, spread the good word,

and please enjoy this chat with the one and only Mr. Allen Alda. Nothing funny to say this time, Sammy? No. No, I was thinking of something, and then I freaked out. Oh, fart noise. Alan Alda's about to be on. All right. I'm going to probably cut this part out.

How's it going? How's your day, Ben? Good. They interviewed me for an hour at the SAG place. Oh, okay. This will be easy compared to that. A little short. An hour and we're like an hour and 20.

Oh, wow. This is your life, Alan Alder? Yeah, right. And I kept saying, I don't remember that part. You remember a fair bit. I've seen some interviews with you. I think you've got the, your brain's very much intact, sir. How's it going?

Good. The turn that makes where this is off. I'm thrilled to have you here today, sir. Thank you. Very nice of you. I don't know an existence without Alan Alda in my life. This is like Mickey Mouse walking into my office. How dare you?

I meant that as a compliment. As it came out, I was like, hmm, wait, is that a compliment? Yeah, Pluto, that would be okay. Okay, sorry. Pluto has just walked into my office. Yes. But congratulations. I mean, there's a lot to cover, but first and foremost, most present in my mind is this wonderful performance and film you're a part of, which is marriage story. Congratulations. Well, thank you. I'm very proud to be part of that movie. I think it's a wonderful movie. Really unusual. Yeah, Noah Boundbeck is a special talent. I mean, I've been a fan right from the start, but this might be his best work, which is saying something.

Well, talk to me first. You're now a podcaster in recent years. That's right. You've had me beat. You've been doing it for a few years, and I've been listening to a bunch of them. Oh, that's nice. Thank you. I love doing the show. And we've done it for about a year and a half.

And I must have had 70 conversations in that time with the most interesting people. A very wide array. You couldn't run the gamut more. No, I really try to get a wide variety of people, because we're all talking about pretty much one thing, but as it applies to every aspect of life. which is communication and the way we relate to one another. So that, therefore, it's good to talk to my microphone has a life of its own. It's trying to tell us something.

So the idea that we have people from different walks of life means that Judge Judy has something to say about relating. Yeah. So does George Mitchell, Madeline Albright, Yo-Yo Ma. Michael J. Fox. Yeah. Everybody has a different, and the hostage negotiator from the FBI, Chris Boss. Amazing. Were you, was podcasting something you were even aware of before you dove in? Oh, sure, and I've heard podcasts. I'm sort of a nerd.

It seems like you're very much on the cutting edge. I mean, you know, a lot of people, like kind of like their life contracts. I feel like your life hasn't contracted. You're very much open to the world. No, I hope it just keeps expanding. 15 or 20 years ago, my friends would give me their computers to repair. Side business for you. Sometimes I could repair them just by thinking. And I'd say, try pressing that button. But it was, so I jokingly started signing my emails to them, uh, celebrity tech support. And the slogan was, was why let a nobody touch your stuff?

I mean, bragging rights. My computer was fixed by multiple Emmy Award winner, Ellen Alda. That makes it really fixed. That's right. Makes the printer really do its thing, right? But I'm, you know, I joke about you coming in and kind of being like this larger-than-life personality. You are, I would imagine, someone that is very approachable.

Like, you know, whether we go back to MASH, where you were literally in all our homes for 11 years and like the most watch TV at the time to all of your varied work, you project a very open personality. Has that been something that's, is that a burden for you? I mean, walking the streets of New York

for many years as you have. No, you know, then the older I get, the more respectful people are who recognize me. In the beginning, it was very hard to be famous. Yeah. Because people would grab at me. And then with one hand, they'd grab at me. And with the other hand, they'd point and say,

hey Fred look what I got got one of them celebrities I swear to God somebody actually said that once what you're lucky you weren't kidnapped who knows where are you going to end up so I had to get used to it but I always thought that I want to be

the person that I am and not have two personas right that's more work to have to well yeah and it's it's something fake about it right but it's hard because people understandably nobody knows you except the people who know you really well right so you're known as an avatar yes so I don't I don't want to live my life as an avatar

I want to be me that it would be my song I want to be me there you go are you my correct you have a office here in the city still you have so what's like what's a typical like do you go into the office often like what's your no i seldom go into the office the office is mainly for the people who work at me and the all the communication training company well i was gonna say you have a lot of different hats you can wear a lot of different pursuits so is that feel like it keeps you keeps your mind active that you can like whether one day it's acting one day it's you know when you keep trying to do new things things you haven't done before yeah you're literally like a kid because you're starting out.

Yeah. And I do get pleasure out of doing what I know how to do. I think that's one of the great pleasures in life is to do what you know to do. But the second pleasure, not as much fun sometimes because you have to work. Right. It's to learn a new language,

learn a new trade. And I had this idea 10 or 20 years ago that we could probably train scientists to be more connected. to the people they were trying to communicate with. Everybody they're trying to communicate with. The public, other scientists, funders, policymakers, Congress, you know. And it turns out it is possible.

We've been training them for 10 years, and we've trained 15,000 scientists and physicians. And most of them get transformed by the workshops. And we start with this unusual thing of teaching them exercises in improvisation. Oh, really? Not comedy improvisation. We're not making them actors or comics. Right.

And sometimes they get a little, they get that frown you have on your face right now. And they say, well, improv, what's this? Wait a minute. But all it really does is put them in contact with another person in a way they're not used to being. where you really listen, you really begin to have empathy for what the other person is going through. And if you have that, if you can develop that, then you can speak to what matters to them. Right. If you know, if you have some curiosity about what does matter to them, you can speak to that.

Not that you don't tell them the truth about what you have to say, but that you can put it in a way that engages them. Right. Makes them want to know more. I mean, this is really the common theme that, I mean, the more I read about you and the more I hear from you, that runs through your life, which is communication and how, in all its facets, where does, can you trace back where this fascination comes from? Did you just go all the way back to your childhood, where in terms of, like, were you not able to communicate with friends and family, or what's the connection there, you think? There may be two things. One is my mother, unfortunately, was schizophrenic and paranoid. That was hard to live with.

And I had to often try to figure out if what she was saying was reality or just her reality. So there was a little bit of reading the other person that had to go on there so I could get through the day and not feel that I was trying to kill her the way she thought I was from time to time. the other thing is I do remember I don't know if it's an outgrowth of what I just said or just was a separate thing I remember as a kid you know six seven eight even younger wondering what was going on when I was sitting at a table with a bunch of adults why did he say that to her what did he mean by that what's that phrase they use what's that tone of voice Yeah. What's going on, which is really now, in a way, what we teach people to do to communicate, to read the other person?

Right. I sometimes wonder, what do you, you may be more in touch with young kids. Do you think that kids that age are sitting with adults now listening to them trying to figure them out, or are they just on their iPhones? I think it can't be denied that there is more opportunities. to section ourselves off. I think there's always going to be an element of that. I see that I don't have kids myself, but I see it in my nieces and nephews that they are done. They pick up on more of what adults are saying than I think the parents ever think they are. They got an ear going while they're right. But I mean, the concern I think that many of us have, right, is like we don't we won't know for another 30 years. So this is the first generation that has come glued to that phone and that device. The next generation will have huge thumbs. I hope it's that's the biggest problem. but I'm curious like so you you talk about kind of like eavesdropping on the adults in your world did you live in did you feel your dad was a performer yeah successful actor um were you exposed primarily like were you living in a more of an adult world than a kid's world because of being on

his sets and in the theater I think I did live more in an adult world because when I was from the time I I was born until I was about seven. We were traveling around from one city to another. And my companions were burlesque comics and nightclub comics. I didn't know many kids. So it kind of stands to reason. I try to figure out what the adults are saying, what they mean by what they're saying. Because they'd often talk in joke talk or the private language of Burrle.

Lesk. It was, I had a really, I thought that that was the world. I thought the world was made up of entertainers and civilians who were unfortunate people who didn't get to entertain. Did your dad convey a love of what he was doing? Was he frustrated or happy or what when you were? No, he was always happy. He was. Well, he got anxious later. He had two great successes in his life. His first movie was playing George Gershwin in the film biography called Rhapsody in Blue. Seven years later, he did, he played the lead in Guys and Dolls on Broadway. Scott Masterson, right? Yeah, and these were two really important jobs that he had.

And for the rest of his career, he didn't get to do things that were interesting. And he was very anxious about that. Was it odd for him when, I don't know, when he passed, but like, he's, lived long enough to see your success. Oh yeah, we had him on the show. That's right, he was on mash, wasn't he? On mash twice. Once, in the show I wrote and directed. That must have been amazing. Yeah. So was it, was that an odd? Because, you know, as you say, he had, he reached these heights and then like any actor, like many actors, rather I'll say, they struggle maybe is too strong a word, but he probably wanted more out of his career. It happens to everybody.

Right. I don't think there's anybody who doesn't go through. ups and downs in the career, sometimes just ups and a down, and that's it. Yeah. I always remember Catherine Hepburn, who when she was only 24, had a headline about her in variety that said, Catherine Hepburn is box office poison. 24. It's over. She lived into her 80s and still playing leads in big movies.

Yeah. But at 24, they were telling her she was finished. It's a fickle business. Yeah. Well, it's funny. I mean, like, were you, because obviously, testament to something like marriage story, or I could name off like a half dozen recent roles in the last five, six years that, you know, we all grew up watching your work.

So I think the next generation is casting you because they appreciate your work. Were you ever worried that it was going to like dry up as you got over? I don't worry. No? No. I didn't worry for the nine years I was trying to become a working act. and almost never got work, or he rarely got work. The evidence was, the evidence I was getting

was that I wasn't going to get anywhere, but I didn't, I paid attention to my desire, my confidence, for some reason I had confidence that I'd somehow make a living as an actor, and that's all I wanted. Right, just to be able to live. I had it worked out. At a young age, I wanted to work,

with other actors who I respected and material I respected in front of an audience that got it and I would have been happy to do that in a regional theater and who knew that I'd be doing just that in front of millions of people eventually

but that just is the way it happened I didn't I wasn't aiming for that I wasn't trying to make that happen when you look back at the it was 11 seasons I believe of MASH does it all blur together I mean that's a huge section of one's life, and you accomplished an amazing amount there. You know, I never look at what I've done already.

So I used to be, if I were passing by a station that was on MASH when I was turning the dial, or whatever we do, press the button. Use our minds to change the channel now. Yeah, right. I might watch it for a few seconds and think, no, did I direct this? Did I write it? Right. I used to know the ones I had written and directed.

Then I only could remember the ones I had written. And now I'm not even sure of that. But that's, I mean, for those that don't remember or know that particular aspect, that's, that's really something, like to put in context, that's like if, like, Brian Cranston suddenly started to write and direct, like, dozens of episodes of Breaking Bad. Like, that doesn't happen. That's a very rare... It happens on a lot of shows, especially shows that run a long time.

I guess. But you, I mean, you were a huge creative force in that show. Well, not as much as the myth on the internet indicates. I didn't tell people what to do. The producers did. I would make suggestions, and once in a while they'd be taken up. But I wrote about 20 or 25 shows. I directed about 35 or, I know, somewhere in there.

But the work I didn't as a writer and a director was my work. But everybody else's work was theirs. And I really didn't, I didn't feel it was my place to interfere with other people's decisions. Did it feel, because you were also on TV at a time, generally speaking, when TV and film felt separate, seemingly. And that, that has blurred, especially in recent years. Yeah. Yeah. But you, I think, stand apart. Like, you were kind of able, I mean, you tell me, you were able to kind of go back and forth from, you were directing films. Yeah, a few years after Max was on the air, I was able to use the off time in the spring to act in other movies, which was maybe helpful in not being typecast as one character.

Right. But it also gave me the chance to work with other people and learn more and have a go at other kinds of material. So we started by talking about, again, kind of the recurring theme of all your work, which is communication. So on a set, what do you want out of a director? How much communication do you want? Do you want to be directed? Do you want to talk a lot to the director? You know, very few directors give direction the way.

the public imagines that no director almost no director who's any good would say say the line like this they don't even say stand over here except once in a while very often they see

what's coming out of you and they make something that they can out of that if you're totally off base you don't have the right you're coming in from left field they toss a few hints your way I don't like hints so much as a plain spoken... Just tell me what you need.

Tell me, am I wrong? Do I not get it? Because it's possible to learn a scene. It's happened to me several times. I've seen it happen to other actors where you think it's about something that it's not about. Or that your character is trying to achieve something that he's not trying to achieve.

It's really good to have somebody let you in on that. Yeah, that seems an important note. Am I in the right movie? Yeah, right. Just let me know. Oh my God, I'm supposed to be it universal. Right. I'm not wrong what.

You're in three of my favorite Woody Allen movies, to be honest. Yeah, I love those pictures. Crime's and Mistemeters is the best. Like top 10 movies all time for me. Yeah, me too. It's just a thing of genius. And I know it again, it does, I think, without putting words in your mouth,

something that I think you appreciate, which is this combination of comedy and drama and fines and we can segue that to Noah Bound back in a second on that. But that was your first collaboration with Woody. And speaking about communication, he's infamous for not really communicating with his actors. In those days anyway, he didn't talk. Yeah. We've talked more than what he did on that whole moment.

But he was very respectful, very courteous. He just feels, I think he felt more comfortable, not talking. and didn't try to impose on the actor. And he liked improvisation, which made me very happy because I loved to improvise. Was there some improv on crimes and misdemeanors? What do you remember about it? A lot. Sometimes he'd say, try to work in this line

that I have in this scene because I use it later. Okay. Yeah. No, he was very free that way. I read somewhere your past collaborator, Larry Galbart, might have been an inspiration in some way for that role? Is that fair to say? Was he ever... I don't think so. It could be,

but I wasn't aware of it. I think you know, and that character carried little recorders around with him and would record his ideas in the middle of a conversation with somebody else. Right. A little strange.

But the person I met who actually did that was Steve Allen. Oh, okay, yeah. Who wrote about I don't know, 20 books. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But he would be writing them right in front of you. You know, he'd say, about China, talking into his little tape recorder. He just had material pouring out of his...

He was a very bright guy. Yeah. And he just let his brain go. I mean, by that, I mean, I don't mean let it go. No, in a good way. Yeah, I remember I was, this was like 20 years ago, I was in college, and he came on my, he did, like, hour-long interviews with me on my college radio show. He was just still, like, so generous and still, like, just like, just.

like so present. He once did a stunt on Vine Street in Hollywood where he sat in a window in the department store window for 24 hours straight without sleeping, composing songs on a piano one after another. He could do everything. He just would improvise a song and then he'd stop and improvise another song. Amazing. I do want to mention just people always mention crimes and misdemeanors. I have a real soft spot for everyone says, I love you. I think it's such a sweet. Yeah, I love that movie. And you and Goldie are so sweet in that.

You're on the piano. You're singing. What are your memories of being on set of that one? Did it feel like a... That was a lot of fun. And I loved... And when we did this song, I can't remember.

I can't remember if we did it live. I think it was pre-recorded. I can't remember. Okay. But I enjoyed doing that very much. Yeah. And I really enjoyed the movie. Edward Norton was actually just here last a couple weeks ago talking about...

Who was here? Edward Norton. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I know he was great in that picture. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was very, very disciplined. He had a dance routine he had to do, and he'd constantly go off on the side and suddenly start dancing. Amazing.

I admired that. So there is, I think, a direct lineage where we can connect Woody to. to Noah. Noah is kind of like in the line of these kind of New York stories about relationships that combine comedy and drama and really get it. The complexities of love and marriage. That's really what marriage story is all about. It kind of, like, again, as I was thinking about talking to you today and connecting the dots, it's kind of like the perfect movie for you because it's a movie about communication. Yeah, that's what I'm amazed at is right at this time in my life when I've written

a book about communication for 10 years as our 10th anniversary we've trained thousands of these scientists to communicate better and this is a movie about two people who love each other and therefore communicate

pretty well and then the communication breaks down right and then when they get divorced they find out during the divorce they have to communicate better than they ever did ever yes and that That's such an interesting insight for the audience because you think I'll get a divorce, I'll end this misery, especially if you have a kid.

You don't just end things effortlessly. Yeah. And it's about the impersonal mechanics that go along with. Yeah, and there are people whose business it is to get the most they can for their clients, divorce lawyers. and that doesn't always help the family. Right. Do you like your character?

Do you like Bert? You know, I don't have an outside relationship with the characters. You don't judge them, you don't... I sure don't judge them, and I don't like them or dislike them. I'm always in favor of them. Whatever they want, I want. Right. But when I look at the movie, I do, now that all the work I've done on it is over.

Yeah. I do see an interesting combination of a guy with a lot of principles who's not really making it very well in the world. No. Possibly because of his principal. And then on the other side we have Laura Dern, who's kind of the all-business, take-no prisoners, the one you don't want to see across the courtroom.

You get to share the scene with, and I heard your podcast with him, Adam Driver, who's like, Oh, he's great. It's just one of our best talents right now. amazing as an actor and really special as a person. We got to be friends immediately and I admire him so much. He seems to have the right priorities about life and this business and is

not in it for the silly fame stuff. Not at all. No. And he's able to do he's able to do commercial movies and give them everything he's got. And give them everything he's got not look down on them but is still a very serious person about his work and he he aspires to be an artist and is i was wondering if you know uh if we could reminisce for a second about new york you were you were you were you actually raised i was born in new york on third avenue and 33rd street okay and i was raised all around the country got it up and down the

Eastern Seaboard and burlesque theaters. When your dad was traveling, right? Nightclubs across the country. And then California, my father was in movies and then back in New York. So when did you move back here by the time you were in your teens or late or 20s? Yeah, I was about 15. Got it. And you've always, I mean, obviously, you've worked all around the world and probably a lot in L.A.,

but has New York always been home base for you? Yeah, for, I don't know, 15 or 20 years or more, we lived in maybe 20. 25 or 30 years. We lived in a small town in New Jersey and brought our kids up there. Got it. Does New York of today feel like an alien place compared to the New York of your youth? Does it feel like it still? No, it always, it was a little different for a while when it was not safe to go into Central Park. Right. In fact, I had a friend at the time who was, held up and he kicked out at the person and lost his shoe as he said in the daytime the part belongs to us so things have changed okay so there's some stuff for the better

yeah it's like because I used to work in Times Square and Times Square has been through every different iteration now it's well the Times Square when you when you drive through it it's like being inside a pinball machine. It's too much now. There used to be that one, you were too young to remember it, to know it, that one billboard of a guy blowing smoke, smoke rings.

I know what you're talking about. Camelad. Sure. That was about it. And that was spectacular. I used to, as a kid, I'd stand for a long time just watching those smoke rings.

That was entertainment back in the day before the iPad. Now it's one huge screen. Every building has been turned into a TV set. It's too much. and they come from all over the world to look at these screens I know everyone you just go there and you see 10,000 people staring up running into each other

I want to throw out a couple other directors and we can talk about how you've communicated with them and how you've worked with them how about David O' Russell fording with disaster yeah I loved that movie he did a really great job great movie Ben Stiller and I were in it at the same time And we hadn't ever met, but we sort of bonded over the scene we were playing.

As we were rehearsing the scene, each one of us started going under the, I don't know if you can just make sense, in the performance, you're getting subtler and quieter. Got it, going the other way, yeah? Going the other way. And then he would go lower, and I'd go lower. And David Russell said, what are you doing? You're ruining the scene. This is not the way you rehearsed it.

But we were making, making each other laugh. I think it was funnier what we were doing. Did that end up, is that the stuff that ended up in the film? No, no, we did it, David's way. But that's a lot of part. He made a very funny movie, very, very engaging movie. You and Lily, a couple that I never would put on paper. But that is part of the thing.

Like, as much as you have a persona, like there is an Alan Alda type, you also have done an extraordinary range of performances. You've kind of been able to have your case. can eat it too, where there is kind of, I think if I said Alan Alda to somebody, that conjures up a certain kind of person, but yet like your Oscar nominated role in the Aviator, et cetera, like these are a wide array. Yeah, well, I always, I always aspire to be a different person without the aid of a putty nose, if at all possible. So to me, that's harder. Well, I think of the actors on I like, I mean, I like both kinds, to be honest. I like the

that will go like can transform and go crazy but i sure but i think of someone like you like i always talk one of my favorites of all time is like jean hackman yeah i think he's wonderful jean hackman like and i count you in the same category there every word out of your mouths i believe there's nothing it just feels very organic and and you can make anything seemingly sound natural which is i guess the greatest gift an actor can can have well i think it's It's an important element in acting, and for me, it comes out of relating well to the other person. You're right. Because if you're just reciting your lines, the way you figured out, you should recite them.

Right. Before you even got on set, et cetera. Before you heard what was coming at you, then it's not going to seem authentic. It'll seem like something that's been canned and prepared. as additives in it. So do you then not in your own head before you get on set have a predetermined way you're going to do something? Do you know that it's going to happen in the moment? I try to understand it.

Right. The intention. Yeah, what the character wants, what's happening in the scene, what the purpose of the scene is. But understanding it is not necessarily knowing how it's going to come out of you. I hope it comes out of me if I do 10 takes,

I hope it comes out 10 different ways. And I hope the director wants that too. I think they probably view that as an asset in the edit room. You've given them options. Yeah. And I've talked about this with Noah. Noah Baumbach was on my podcast, too, clear and vivid. And he agreed that sometimes he would do many takes

because in one take, maybe four or five along, He saw something start to happen that he hadn't expected that was different and fresh. And then he would do more takes to see if that would start to develop into something full-blown. And I like that. I like a lot of takes. I like long runs on Broadway, you know, because it gets better. I used to have to make a deal with myself on opening night of a play. Don't be depressed six months from now when your performance.

is five times better than it is tonight. Right, right. Was Glenn Garry an exceptional experience? I loved that. I loved working with Leiav. I mean, he's, again, one of our best. And now I get, yeah. Ray Donovan, of course.

Yeah, I'm doing Ray Donovan with him now. But a guy that can do Shakespeare and do... Oh, he's amazing. Do everything. And the same is true of Adam Driver. Yeah. It's really wonderful what's happening with the profession. yeah they're really skilled people coming in so do you get offered a lot like do you get a lot of scripts

that come your way now i get i i don't know what's a lot right i don't know yes i had a derby you get i get i get enough i get i get enough to turn things down there you go that's all you you want to feel like you can actually make some choices no i want to feel like i don't have to do everything that comes by right um so what so clear and vivid is the podcast and that continues Sounds like you're doing more podcasts than I am. I feel lazy next to you. How many do you do? I do one a week.

Well, so do why. Okay, there you go. As long as you keep going, I'm going to keep going. Okay, now I have someone to aspire to. We've done about 74 shows. How many of you do? I've done more, but I've been doing it for five years. Oh, well, you've had a head start.

Yeah. That's okay. But this is not, I wouldn't say my full-time job, but it is, you've got a lot of jobs. But I'm curious, so the endeavor of the, that is that is that is that changing as you as you get more guests on or was there a clear intention at the start of that podcast yeah the intention was and why it's called clear and vivid yeah is that it's about communicating right and good communicating i think should be both clear and vivid meaning right engaging emotional cap capture the attention of the person you're trying

to communicate with yeah and the relating part is really important because it's like what i learned from acting. If you relate to the other character, the other actor, something happens between you. There's an exchange, not just of information, but of feeling. Yes. Of awareness. And that's, to me, an essential part of communicating and collaborating. Yeah. You know, it's not, it's not, communication isn't just delivering a good message. Right. It's developing a partnership with the person you're trying to communicate with. Right. This really is a way of collaborating.

It's part of leadership and all of that. And now I've talked myself out of the question you asked. What was it? Oh, the original idea. The original idea was to explore all of what I just said, but in every possible area of our lives we could imagine. Right. Music, diplomacy, dealing with hostage takers.

Christian Picholini talking about how he got 200 people out of the neo-Nazi movement, having been a member himself, but learning how through empathy to actually get them to turn away from the skinheads. That's a powerful story. Judge Judy, courtroom. A very, very interesting conversation with her, unlike what you'd expect her to be. Yeah. Dr. Ruth, right?

I mean, can't ignore. Yeah, that part of life, yeah. Right, and interestingly, she's more, she's more concerned now in this part of her life with communicating above the covers than she was below the covers. Right. But she still talks, frankly, she's hilarious.

Yeah. And she's a free spirit. In the middle of our conversation, which took place in her apartment, her phone rang. She gets on the phone. She says, oh, I'm here with Alan Alder. she's right on during the night she answered the phone twice and had a whole conversation she's

multitasking at 90 it's inspiring she's great i have to say you're and your endless curiosity and excitement about all these things is very inspiring too i i also have to say i appreciate um you know you can't you you you decided to talk publicly in recent years about your your parkinson's my dad is parkinson so so i appreciate how far long is he he's had it for probably 10 12 12 years and he's he's been one of the lucky lucky ones as you know this is different for every single that's right and every day is different yeah so he so does he have postural problems or yeah i mean he has like a tremor um but and you know it maybe impairs communication a little bit a little bit slower but we kind of thank our lucky stars to be honest because you know it's been it's been pretty uh

it hasn't been so progressive yeah and the the the theory and i think the practice that it's been demonstrated that when you get a diagnosis is really important to start a serious specific exercise program, not just general exercise, but there are certain things you can do that will improve your mobility. Not much you can do about tremors, but if you can keep yourself moving, keep your voice, in better shape. Right now, I didn't warm up my voice, so it was a little gravelly. Sounds better than me. Don't worry. No, no, you've got a good strong voice.

But hand-eye coordination and that kind of thing, too. Yeah, that hasn't, I haven't lost that at all. That's great. That's great. I just beat a friend at tennis for the first time in six months. There you go. A couple hours ago. Perfect, perfect. As I said, you're inspiring in every aspect of your life, sir. Thank you so much for sharing some time with you today.

Thank you. It was fun talking with you. And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh. Hey, Michael. Hey, Tom.

You want to tell him? Or you want me to tell him? No, no, no. I got this. People out there. People, lean in. Get close. Get close.

Listen, here's the deal. We have big news. We got monumental news. We got snack. Nuclear news. After a brief hiatus, my good friend, Michael Ian Black, and I are coming back. My good friend, Tom Kavanaugh, and I are coming back to do what we do best. What we were put on this earth to do.

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