Happy Sad Confused - Alessandro Nivola

Episode Date: September 22, 2021

Alessandro Nivola has been stealthily putting together an impressive career for about 25 years already but it's only now he's getting the role of a lifetime as the lead in the Sopranos prequel film, "The Many Saints of Newark"! Alessandro joins Josh to chat about this mid-life big break, his early work in films like "Face-Off", and why he loves "Step-Brothers". Don't forget to check out the Happy Sad Confused patreon here! We've got exclusive episodes of GAME NIGHT, video versions of the podcast, and more! For all of your media headlines remember to subscribe to The Wakeup newsletter here! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

D.C. high volume, Batman. The Dark Nights definitive DC comic stories adapted directly for audio for the very first time. Fear, I have to make them afraid. He's got a motorcycle. Get after him or have you shot. What do you mean blow up the building? From this moment on,

none of you are safe. New episodes every Wednesday, wherever you get your podcasts. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, Sad, Confused begins now. Today on Happy, Sad, Confused, Alessandro Navola, on the biggest role of his career yet in the Many Saints of Newark. Hey, guys, Josh Harowitz here with another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused,

and very excited to say that this begins two weeks of coverage of a film that I really dug. I'm going to talk about it a lot these next two shows. shows. Indulge me, if you will, the Many Saints of Newark. I believe the subtitle is A Sopranos story. And yes, as that subtitle alludes to, this is connected to the Sopranos, the classic, perhaps greatest television show of all time, if not the greatest, certainly up there. This week, Alessandra Novello, who is indeed the lead of this film playing Dickie Maltesanti, and next week, the creator of the Sopranos, David Chase. We'll get to that later on, but that's a special one as well.

As for Alessandro, if you know film and TV and theater in particular in New York, you probably know Alessandra's work. I wouldn't say, I don't know, he's kind of been a character actor and a leading man over the years. And unlike some of his contemporaries, as he talks about, like the Billy Crudups and the Ethan Hawks, he kind of hasn't had that role that really clicked, that right leading role that resonated. And here we are now. He's, I think he's in his late 40s. and he's gotten the role that he's sought after all these years.

So really throwing to see someone like Alessandro get a chance. And only in this kind of circumstance, frankly, when David Chase wields so much power, you know, you could see this going a different way where, like, a studio would insist on a bigger, quote-unquote name. But David Chase is the name, sopranos is the name when it comes to the Many Saints of Newark. So exciting to see Alessandro in this,

and he's fantastic in the film. This is a fun conversation. I've always been a fan of Alessandra's work. He's part of one of those cool Brooklyn couples that you got to admire as a fellow New Yorker, him and Emily Mortimer, keeping it real here in New York. And, you know, we talk a bit about this unusual trajectory for him and getting this role when he did and what it means to him now. And watching his contemporaries succeed and get opportunities where maybe he didn't, people like Billy Crutup and Ethan Hawk and Jude Law, who we knew back in the day. So he's got a good perspective about it, and again, exciting just to see him make the most of a really fun opportunity, a cool opportunity. And I should say, this isn't a spoilery conversation.

Many Saints of Newark doesn't open until October 1st. It's out in theaters and on HBO Max. So don't worry, nothing's spoilery at all in this chat. And also, if you're not even a Big Sopranos fan, haven't watched this show too much or at all, this movie works, as I say, to Alessandro and David on next week's show. I think it works for the casual fan, and I think it works for the diehard as well. So that is a badge of honor for the many saints of Newark. There's also, I should say, an amazing digression in this episode. Did you know, for instance, that Alessandro's film debut came in the great,

or I don't know if it was a film debut or maybe it was his second film, Face Off. Face Off was one of his early films. He played, of course, Pollock's Troy, Nick Cage's brother, a performance that is indelible. He took some big swings with that performance, and he goes into where it came from, what was on the page and what wasn't, him and Nick's relationship, how the director John Lou reacted to it. It's a fun, I don't even know, five, maybe ten minutes of the conversation talking all things face off that I just positively delighted in. And, of course, we talk comfort movies as well, and he picks a great one, an Adam McKay classic.

So that's today's episode of Happy Second Feud's Alessandro Navola, his life career and the many Saints of Newark. Other things to mention, let's see. We still have a relatively new game night up for you guys on the Patreon page with Justin and Christian Long and Joe Mangonello. If you haven't checked that out, please do. Of course, over on the Patreon page, as always, we've got video versions of the podcast. This conversation is in video form over there. You can check out the Jessica Chastain chat in video form and a ton of other stuff. Remember, if you subscribe to the Patreon, you get all the video content, not just the new stuff, all the stuff going way back, all the game nights, all the video versions of Happy Sad Confused.

So check it out if you're so inclined. Patreon.com slash happy, sad, confused. Other things coming up down the pipe, what can I say? Venom, Let There Be Carnage, is coming to theaters very soon, chatted with the, what's the adjective to use on Tom Hardy. I don't know. The inscrutable, the unusual, the always charming and vaguely scary. No, he's not scary. He's a sweetie. Tried with Tom Hardy and his director, Andy Circus, for MTV. That conversation is coming up. That was a lot of fun to do. And some Dune stuff. I know we've been talking Dune for like years, it feels like on the podcast. But I did mention

on Twitter, so I'll mention it here. I have taped a podcast conversation with Deney Villeneuve. He, of course, one of the great filmmakers working today and thrilled that Deney came back on the podcast. If you don't know, he was actually on before for Blade Runner, 2049, a few years back. So if you want to dig into the archives for that one, check it out. But yeah, in a few weeks' time, a deep dive with Deney Villeneuve on Dune. So stick around for that one. Okay, let's get to the main event, part one of a two-week extravaganza about all things, The Many Saints of Newark. Next week, it's David Chase.

But today, the day belongs to Mr. Alessandro Navola. Enjoy. Alessandro, welcome to happy, sad, confused. I'm happy to say in the seven years on this podcast, this is the first Alessandro on the pod ever. so you've broken new ground already welcome yeah there are a lot of firsts where alessandro is concerned i haven't uh i don't encounter them often in this country sometimes back in the in the motherland right well you know if there's not you know if the soprano's film the many saints of newark doesn't call for an alessandro something is wrong if you can't get a gig in this one then you're

doing something wrong exactly i mean i've said this before in interviews but it's really true that I, you know, my name has been such a kind of source of confusion. It's been such an obstacle in the whole my whole career up until this point. And then finally this like, you're cashing in the chair and vining role. Finally, you know, I'm sure I only got because of that or, you know, it's certainly didn't slow the process down. I don't think it may, I don't think it got you the role with Mr. David Chase. but yes as you say probably didn't hurt um he did he did really care i mean he does really care about the italian thing like he uh i mean i think he he makes no bones about it like it was important

to him yeah well so i let's let's start there because i mean you talk about this as a career defining role and it's interesting look you've been around the block once or twice i've followed your career i'm a big fan of your work man but um it's unusual for you to be in for any actor to be in the circumstance where you are, because this is arguably the most important, most high-profile role in your career. And as you well know, this by the Hollywood playbook is not usually how it works. No. Had you, give me a sense of sort of like where, like, were you still, I mean, I'm sure over the

years you've chased different things and you've been satisfied to different degrees. Where were you at when this came around in terms of like satisfaction level, what you were going after what your what dreams were still left or what dreams you'd let go of yeah um well uh okay i guess on the one hand i felt like um uh you know i was very proud of the kind of range of roles that i that i'd played and uh the variety of everything and and um that uh you know i was aware that I'd kind of, you know, been appreciated over the years for kind of, you know, bringing something to movies where I was playing supporting roles

and that were, you know, that was enhancing the movie somehow in unexpected ways and that the roles were sometimes, you know, on the page, not as colorful or interesting as they ended up in my hands once I was done with them. But I also felt like it was still a grind, you know, it was just a grind in the, in the sense that I, you know, I just couldn't really be, you know, I couldn't finance independent movies in the lead roles and, you know, studios were reluctant to hire me in, in lead roles just because I wasn't going to sell the film to their audiences. And so, you know, I've been relatively anonymous apart from like in the, you know, people in the know in the know within the industry and obviously there were a lot of directors who wanted to hire me and, you know, came up against opposition from, you know, financiers and executives and stuff like that.

And so, yeah, so like, you know, I, it's, I was, it's been, it's, it's been, it's, From that point of view, it's been hard. I've spent most of my career making more out of roles than what was there. On the other hand, I've felt over the past eight years or so a kind of very quiet, slow, steady progression towards this moment, like getting this role wasn't completely out of,

nowhere like there had been a certain kind of like quietly building momentum and really it started from eight years ago or so i i made a decision to start taking roles based almost exclusively on the director and so i started really doing smaller roles in in movies that were more high profile because they were with kind of a tourish directors who were important that everybody was you know paying a attention to and wanted to see what their next project was, which was inevitably something kind of unusual and special and attention grabbing. And so I started having a lot more people see my work,

even though it was in smaller roles. I mean, I'd done like, I counted like 12 movies that I'd made that I was the lead role in that never got released, you know, over the course of my country. the course of my career. And these weren't like necessarily, you know, totally invisible things. They were like me starring upset Chris Walken, me starring, I mean, like, you know, big, potentially, you know, I shouldn't say big movies, but like things that were not like shot on your handy cam in your backyard. They were. And does that, does that fuck with your confidence over the

years? I mean, you know you're a quality actor. But at the end, but then you're also like facing this reality of like, wait, what am I doing wrong? Like, or was it like, do you have enough knowledge of the industry and kind of presence of mind to know, like, look, it's out of my hand. Like, this is just one of those things. I have plenty of friends that for whatever reason it never clicked for and I just have to keep doing my thing and let the chips fall where they may, or what was your attitude? Well, you know, I've, so, you know, with a lot of these kinds of movies that would come out like I'd get like great reviews you know and yeah and so I was being told you know by critics and stuff like that I'd given some great performance in this thing there's just

nobody was seeing any of it right right and so I wasn't thinking like oh like my process is not yielding like the performances that I want like it was just like I was in the wrong movies and or you know or or just having bad luck with right the movies and the way that they were you know released or or whatever and um but really i i felt like it was about you know trying to to come to realize that movies really belong to directors and that uh a movie is only as good as it as its director and um once i started just kind of saying like i want to work with these people like just find me anything in movies with, you know, this list of, like, 40 directors. And they started doing that.

And, you know, it started around the time I did, like, I don't know, maybe it was Ginger and Rosa with Sally Potter. Like, if you look from that film until now, like, the best directors I've worked with are, like, in that, from that point to now. I mean, every movie was somebody. David O. Russell, J.C. Chander, Nick Reffin, yeah, David O'Vernay. I mean, like, just every single time, it was somebody. I mean, Dave, I did like a one-seen part in that movie. But, like, the aggregate of it just started to sort of snowball a little bit. Like, people just became more and more aware that I was just again and again, like, popping up in these movies and doing something surprising. And, and, um, so by the time this thing came along it was i felt like something something was going to happen but you know the clock was ticking too because uh this isn't the time that you you know of a career

as you said that you normally kind of uh you know have have your breakthrough or your career defining role or whatever i don't really want to describe it but uh and and in fact this movie to me is just like a total anomaly in the sense that uh Um, movies studios don't make these kinds of movies anymore. These are like, you know, classic crime dramas that were, you know, the studio fair from the 70s and 80s, uh, before all the, you know, superhero movies and everything. And they just like a mid budget, this was like 50, 60 million dollars. Like that budget is just not a budget that exists at the studios, um, for a drama.

And, uh, it was, uh, you know, I, I kind of. like to think of the movie as a Trojan horse that was, you know, wrapped up in this IP of the, of the television series that was had such a following and was only allowed to be made because of that. And it's also because of that that David was allowed to cast whoever he wanted in the roles because we weren't selling it. Like the show, the show was selling the movie. So the likelihood of this role in this kind of movie at this time really was, you know, very, very kind of needle in a haystack. So, yeah, there was no question that when it came along, I was aware that, like, you know, finally something had really gone right for me. And I'd had some, you know,

it was a great stroke of luck. Yeah. What was it a process in terms of, like from the first time you met with David and or Alan Taylor to get the role? I mean, were you stealing yourself for, like as much as they're saying, we love you, you're great, we're talking to the studio, is a part of your brain like, oh, great, when does Ryan Gosling take my role at the last second, you know?

Yeah, yeah, I was. You know, I gave a killer audition and I really prepared for it. You know, I don't do a lot of auditions in a year, but I do, you know, once every three months, it's kind of been. And I really like treat them like, I treat them as if I had the role and I was researching the role and starting to work on it. And because just psychologically that way, you know, I can just see it for its own value and just like enjoy that process of discovering a character.

and picking apart a scene and, you know, doing all the things that I do when I'm actually preparing to shoot. So I really, you know, I spent a few weeks on this and I was given like the five biggest scenes in the movie to tape. And I didn't know, by the way, I hadn't even, David is so, you know, tight-lipped about the script and everything. And he's so paranoid about it getting out that I didn't, I hadn't even read the whole thing. So I didn't even know it was the lead role in the movie. I just knew there were like five great scenes. And so I prepared them and I taped it. And you just know, like, sometimes you know if it's good or not.

I just knew it was really good. And I sent it off. And I was expecting to hear like something positive about it. But yeah, I didn't know. And I remember Ethan Hawk is my buddy and he lives down the road right here, just a few townhouses down on my street here in brooklyn and we have breakfast all the time our kids are in the same school and so we we meet up almost daily if we're like in the same for both here and i was like hey can i got to show you this thing you know and and uh so i took him back to the

house and i showed him the audition and and he was like damn that's that's really good you're not going to get it. I was like, I know, I know, you know. He was tempering your expectations. He wanted it to be a nice surprise. He was like, he was like, oh, he's so deserved to get this. You're not going to get it. And so I, yeah, of course there was always that, that expectation.

but I definitely felt like I had like really sort of, you know, done something special with the scenes and I'd sent them off and I heard immediately that they were interested and then and then when I went and met there, I had to go, I went and had lunch with David and Alan Taylor at some restaurant in Tribeca and, you know, my next door neighbor who's right across the wall behind this screen I'm pointing at is Tim Van Patton, who directed half the Sopranos and all boardwalk and everything. Oh, this is all meant to be. Come on. And so once I told him that, like, I had done this audition and they were interested and everything, he said, and I told him I was going to meet David and everything. He kind of like prepped me about the whole thing and said, listen, like, don't expect David to laugh at your jokes. You know, he's totally inscrutable.

You're not going to, like, you're not going to get anything out of him. It doesn't mean he doesn't like. you just don't expect any of that. And so I went in there just thinking like, oh my God, this is just going to be like a kind of painful lunch that I just have to sort of suffer through and hopefully not put my foot in my mouth. And instead, he was just like really animated.

And, you know, we just really, yeah, immediately had a kind of connection. And he was so curious about my, you know, father's side of my family, the immigrant side. And, you know, what his experience, had been and everything and there was and yeah this is we're back full circle this was you know back to to my name value here right well i'm glad you had that experience with david i mean uh i had him on the podcast i'm not sure if i'm going to run you or him first but okay he he's he's a he's a tough

nut to crack for for me i feel like he's he doesn't suffer fools clearly i mean i knew what i was getting into i've seen many interviews with him but like man like um i can only imagine like obviously this is his baby and he doesn't want to exploit this IP, as it were. And as you say, this is kind of a Trojan horse. Like, this is, like, I'll be honest, like, I hadn't watched the Sopranos for many years. I didn't remember all the intricacies of it, but like I ended up falling in love with this movie just on its own terms and like remembering some references, but then wanting to go back to the show and then having it enriched the experience all the more. So as I said to him, I think you guys really, truly knocked it out of the park and I think it's going

work for audiences of all that's great to hear i mean i'm only just now starting to talk to people who've seen it because um you know they they really hadn't screened it a lot for for many months i think partly because david really felt like you know he was up against the the fact of of you know the show being the provenance of the movie is like a double-edged sword because on the one hand it's made the movie possible. And on the other hand, it makes it that much harder to kind of get people to experience the movie on its own terms as a piece of cinema and not as another episode of the show. And so I think, you know, then with the HBO Max, you know, day and date release with the theatrical, David really like his heart sank because he feels like our movie

has a handicap of like needing to overcome the you know the association with HBO and the you know television uh incarnation of the series so um so yeah i think that's been something that he's been very like vocal about and yeah he makes no bones about it he's just like this bullshit i mean i like a refreshing filmmaker that's that says what he thinks i mean look again it's his baby and he should feel protective of it and it is it's a it's a tough nut to crack in this this but it's as a cinephile, as somebody that appreciates exactly what you're talking about, that kind of mid-range drama, you don't see it much. And, like, I hope it's rewarded.

I hope people give it a shot at the box office as well as at home. Yeah, I mean, the box office thing is just like, so confusing at this point. Nobody knows, yeah. Especially with this movie probably more than any, because, like, people, as he's pointed out, like people just associate the Sopranos with their television. So I don't think people think of this movie as something that needs to be seen

in a cinema. And when in fact in my opinion, and maybe I'm biased, but I don't think so. Like I have a pretty clear eye about the stuff I'm in, but forget about the quality of the storytelling or the acting or any of the other sort of film craft parts

of it. Like the cinematography I really love in the movie. Like I really think it's so much more cinematic than the show was. And that's not to like, you know, put the show down at all. The show is an absolute, you know, genius piece of television and it's changed the course of TV and the acting and it's outrageous and it's just brilliantly written.

But just purely, like, as far as the way it's shot, like the way it captures the period feels very like gritty and authentic, but not like glamorized, but it's also beautiful in a kind of subtle way. And so to me, like, the experience of watching it on a big screen is so much better than seeing it on television. But, again, like, I don't think that that's the perception of the movie, given its association with the show. Well, all we can do is talk it up. And I will say, as I said to David, I think I've probably seen, like, maybe nine or ten movies on the big screen in the last year and a half in the last couple months.

And I've seen yours twice on the big screen. So hopefully that tells you all you need to know about. The second time were you forced to? No, no. No, I wanted a refresher for both of you. It was like the scene in Clockwork Orange. They had like your eyelids. You were strapped down into its hair.

Yeah, it was a saw device I was stuck in. Let's talk if we could a little bit about your background, if you'll indulge me. When did you, how did you catch the disease of acting? Who inflicted it upon you? it's in your blood from the beginning. Where did you kind of fall in line? I was in Peter Pan in a school play. And I just got really fired up about it.

That was third grade, I guess. And I told my mom I wanted to go to acting classes. And so she found like summer programs for me to go to. And then from there, it was really like a very old fashioned. road, you know, and again, it was kind of like, you know, slow and steady, which I guess it just carried on right to this point. I started out doing, you know, summer drama schools and things, and then and then interning at summer theaters and like sweeping floors and punching meal tickets and doing like splicing sound tape for plays. And then

I started getting little roles in like professional summer theater up in Connecticut, there was this place called the Eugene O'Neill Theater Center where they developed all of August Wilson's plays and John Patrick Shanley's plays, John

Gware's plays back in the 80s, and I was there initially just as a kind of intern who was like helping out and then some part, like my fourth or fifth summer there I was still in high school and some part came up for a teenager and they they asked me to do it and then that was like my first professional role and then and then I went

to Yale and while I was at Yale I got an agent and whoops something just happened to my thing there and I started auditioning for you know summer theater and I then like over the time that I was at Yale, I did like five regional theater plays around the country, Chekhov and, and Athel Fugard and, you know, just like, you know, a bunch of things. You know, Master Harold and the Boys, I think, was like my first big lead role in any professional capacity. And it was out in Seattle at the Intamon Theater in Seattle. And that was, I think I was a junior at Yale. And it was, you know, one of the most thrilling moments. of my life and I was maybe 16 or something 17 and then and then a year out of Yale I was cast I had I was living in

New York I hadn't ever worked in New York City and my first role in New York was a starring role on Broadway opposite Helen Marin in a Turgainia play called The Month in the Country and I had never done a film at this point I was just you know my my whole career was geared towards the theater. But that sort of like changed everything and just in terms of like my awareness of Hollywood and stuff, because there were all these young actors who were also on Broadway at that time.

There was Billy Crudeb, Jude Law, Damien Lewis, Ray Fines, Rufus Sewell, Robert Sean Leonard, like all these people, and we were all kind of hanging out together at night after these shows. And we would do our plays and meet up and have these kind of like, you know, really long nights. Were they highfalutin dreams? Like, were you guys snobbish about like Hollywood at the time? What was the attitude? What was the collective kind of like, what was the dream collectively or for yourself at that time in your life? Well, I got really close friends. I got to be really close friends with Jude Law in

particular and he and I were just kind of like for a few months when we were doing these plays we were just hanging out together the whole time and I just remember like he was at CAA and he was just like very glamorous guy at that time you know I had this like bleach blonde hair and he was all kind of like a wild man and wore kind of like crazy fashioning clothes that were sort of you know like definitely eye catching and like he was just like you know you know know, whether or not he was famous, he was going to be famous. Like, you walked down the street, and you're like, who's that guy? You know, like, and I was kind of, like, fascinated by him.

And, you know, we just, like, we really got along, but I started noticing, like, all these films trick. I remember going over to his apartment, and there was, like, a stack of red film scripts with this red CAA covers on them. And they were obviously just, like, I guess, film. offers he'd been getting because like he was a star somehow already you know and uh and uh and so like the second his show closed off he went and he's just started making movies and then that's kind of started happening with a lot of the other guys i mean i you know billy same thing i can't

remember what he went off to do but like they one by one started their shows started closing and they started floating off you know up towards the heavens And I was kind of left there, like, grinding out my play every night. Like, you know, I didn't have any film offers. And I, you know, my, it just wasn't like, I just didn't have a sort of, you know, and then, but someone did come and see this show, Mindy Maring, who was this great casting director. And she, you know, got excited about me being in,

in face, in John Wu's face-off movie. And so that came out of the play. It wasn't immediately after the play. It was like, I don't know, it was maybe a year later or something. But she had seen the play and she'd remembered me and she brought me in to meet him. And so that's, you know, how that happened. And then after that first play in New York, I didn't do another play for eight years. Oh, wow.

Well, we should talk about face-off because, like, I mean, that is one. And, like, you made such, like, an indelible impression as Pollock's Troy. I mean, I was, like, refreshing. Not that I need refreshing. I've seen that movie so many times in what John Lou did with it, and Nick and John Turvolta, the whole, and Joan Allen. Everybody's just amazing at it. But I was looking on YouTube, I was just curious, like, to watch some scenes.

And there's, like, literally, like, a sizzle. There's, like, just like somebody has comped all of the Pollock's Troy lines, all of your moments. I don't know if you've seen this. That character, not me as an actor, but that character, like, somehow, kind of sort of weird cult following going with it, like, I don't know. Well, you're making choices. You're making big choices with that character. I mean, like, you could, you know, talk to you about, like, was that all on the page? I mean, like, the pinky wave, the, just the, there's just

an affectation to him that is very striking and unique. Yeah, none of it was on the page. in fact when I first met John Wu the role was written like just like mini me of Nick's character it was like the same guy as Nick just sort of like the sort of loser less cool one but who was still like you know

supposed to be in like leather pants and you know like a kind of club guy you know who's just like trying to like be like his older brother or something I don't know But it was just so lame, like, I knew from the start, first of all, I thought the script was just totally inane. Like, I couldn't understand, like, I was like, these guys are swapping faces. This is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Like, this is never going to work.

Right. And I was so wrong for a million of reasons. Like, now, like, forget about John Wu's style. I even think the script is brilliant and the whole concept is brilliant. And, but at the time, I just thought it was so dumb. And then I, the role just seemed like there was nothing interesting about it. It just seemed like a kind of carbon copy of Nick. And I could never do Nick better than Nick.

And so I was, but, you know, but he cast me just from, I think we just met. I don't think I read anything. I just like, I came and met him and I wore leather pants. Like I wore leather pants to my John Wu meeting. And that did the trick, like he cast me. But then in the time that I was kind of preparing, I was just thinking, I have got to completely rethink this thing because otherwise it's going to be just so forgettable.

And I've been watching that Terry's Wygoth documentary about R. Crum, the artist R. Crum, which, you know, I don't know how many people have seen this. Maybe it's an obscure thing, but it's a brilliant documentary about this psychedelic cartoon artist from the paid ashbury and and he uh had it was not just him but two brothers and they were all like really eccentric fascinating characters and um i started fixating on the bro his older brother charles who sadly killed himself after the documentary was made but he was this really weird guy who

wrote these journals where the writing got like smaller and smaller and smaller and so like you couldn't see it anymore and uh and i basically decided i was just going to do an impersonation of him and he had like a very specific voice you know where he you know he sort of talked like that and all this stuff you know like everything was in the back of his throat and i just sort of started like i was like i'm just going to do that i'm just going to be that guy and and then i want to dress like him And I, so I went to the costumers and I had them rethink the whole thing. And I, they got all my like, you know, wide-willed corduroys and sweater vests and glasses and all that stuff. And my whole physicality, I was sort of imitating the Crumb brothers.

And I had also shown it to Nick who just like his like eyes lit up with some documentary. He was like, oh, gosh, go. Yeah, you're speaking of Nick Page. You know, very what you're doing. Very dark. You know, he was just like into it. And we started like getting together and doing like improvisations in his trailer, you know, based on the Crumb brothers and just like cracking ourselves up, just making up the most absurd shit,

talking about like sex sandwiches and like, I mean, just free associating. and his assistant would write it all down and then we would send it to John Wu and John Wu just loved it like I couldn't believe it like the stuff we were coming up it was just so like random and he would watch it and he loved it I remember him saying like bringing us into the set one day

and saying he was looking at our pages and he was like uh sex sandwich very funny and we're like you know that's amazing so it was like just wildly creative experience Nick you know it was my first movie really I mean I had done a little tiny role by that time in inventing the habits

and then and Nick um Nick was like so encouraging of me and he was just like yeah you know just you know go go like do that you know and and so I just felt totally embolded and by him and and John like the you know the rest of the movie was one of those movies is so big and there's so much going on that nobody's paying attention to what the acting like you know that's happening off in some kind of corner and it's not until like you know the daly's started coming back that people had realized like that I was doing this whacked out character before that they were just like who's a guy with the boat shoes and then corduroids or whatever why's that guy waving to John Travolta like this in the corner

But I started getting people coming up to me on the set from the crew, you know, like the D.P. I think. And I don't know, people in the, you know, and the department head saying like, hey, I saw the dailies. Like, I like what you're doing there. You know what I mean? And I was like, I was like, all right. Like, I'm good. I'm just going to keep doing this. And that's amazing. So, yeah, that was a very, a great first, first experience. We'll have to set aside another three hours for another podcast to talk more in detail because I feel like that's the tip of the iceberg

of face-off stories and Nick Cage stories, which I can always dine out on. One thing I want to get to before I run out of time with you, because I have been asking folks about their comfort movies, especially in this last year when we need some comfort. Oh, yeah, yeah. You chose a great one that, shockingly, has not come up yet. I don't know.

This is a stupid question to even ask why this is a comfort movie, but tell me why for you, Stepbrothers, is an integral comfort movie for you? I guess, well, it just becomes a family thing. My brother and my son and I just all love it so much that we just, it's just like we quote it all day long to each other in text messages, and like we send little pictures and we just repeat the same lines to each other

over and over again, and it's just like we just like crack each other up even like with the same lines that we've said to each other like a hundred times and i don't know man it's just so brilliant and and like i think maybe the best performance in the whole movie is adam scott um you know like will feral and and john c riley are just such geniuses and like every movie that they do and every i mean will yeah i think all of his movies are my comfort movies but i but um but adam scott is like the special sauce in the movie that just like puts it into the stratosphere and from the minute he appears on screen like singing uh you know sweet child of mine or whatever um with his family and like it's just he's just like he's on

fire he like had tapped into somebody that was just so brilliant and that character has been kind of recreated in other movies and other kind of incarnations so many times and it'll just never be as good as the way that he does it. You know, what's fun, and you know, I don't know if you know Adam at all. I mean, I've talked to him on this podcast and other times, and he's talked about that film, like being so out of his element and being like, I am not equipped to do this. And to see what game of it, even through the fear and feeling like you didn't belong is makes it all more remarkable. Well, that's so funny. Like, he just seems. so completely there. I mean, I know that feeling. Like, I just, you know, interestingly, like

after this movie, the last three things I've done have all been like very, you know, like real comic roles. And I've done comic roles at times in my career, in my career, but usually in more dramatic films. And after doing the art of self-defense a few years ago, um, I love, by the way, fantastic. Thank you. Thanks. Well, that was like my first, like, out. out like comedy film and and just you know with me and jesse eisenberg and i started getting offered like just comedy comedies after that and and so my role in david o russell's movie and then and then the thing i did after that was like with all those guys like uh you know it was allison brie and augury plaza and friend armison and molly shan and tim heideker zach woods uh you know

like a whole long list of like the sort of UCB. The All-Stars. Yeah. Yeah. And it's amazing how separate the two worlds are. Like those guys all know each other and they've all worked together a million times. And I now feel like I've worked with like everybody, but it turns out it's only in this like one side of the movie business. And I was like dropped into their midst on this film. And I felt like the way Adams described. like I felt like a total alien to the point where it was almost like they were like wanting to come and like touch my hair. You know what I didn't see if I was real.

And it was such, it was such like just so fun. And they I would just sit around like I, you know, just like it was as if I was stone when I wasn't stone because like I were like slits and I was just like grinning like because people just the whole time were just being funny all the time. And it's so unlike all the film sets I've been on where, you know, I don't know, you know, people are sort of just sitting around like complaining or whatever. To be fair, some of those performers are very, I mean, like Aubrey Plaza, I mean, I've known Aubrey for a decade and I still don't even know if she's like giving me shit or being normal or what's coming out of her mouth and what brain's at. It's like a total whack job in the best possible way.

She's just amazing. Amazing. You mentioned David O'Rustler, who you of course worked with before. You've collaborated again with him on this new film that has another insane bananas cast. I don't know what's about it. If you weren't in this movie, your career is over. Yeah, between Adam McKay's new one, right? The one with Leo and everybody. And this one, it casts all of Hollywood.

it. So at least you made a man. So you say this one's pretty comedic. I mean, do you click with David? David's obviously, again, talk about a guy on his own wavelength, like a very unique personality to work with. Did you click with him immediately? Is it a different environment on this new one versus American Hustle? What can you say about working with David? Well, he's the only director who's ever cast me twice. What? That's crazy. Yeah. This is the first time that's ever happened.

So, you know, working with him is just completely unlike any other experience. It's totally, feels totally out of control. You have to kind of give yourself over to him in a way that is really terrifying because you can't like, I mean, the way you prepare for his movies is all with character work. So it's all about. developing behavior and just being really specific about who you're playing and how they talk and how they are physically. And if you really latch on to that in a very detailed way, then you just like filter through his dialogue. I mean, you don't ever say anything that's in

the script. So, um, wow. And he's written the script and the scripts are always really excellent but uh what you say on the day comes out of like he just he he tucks himself in next to the camera and has like a little monitor and um just starts like interacting with you during the takes while the camera's rolling and he becomes kind of part of the scene like you'll be in a scene with other people but he's he talks almost like i i liken it to like Glenn Gould I don't know if you've ever listened to Glenn Gould recordings. He was a famous pianist, classical pianist, who famously recorded Bach, you know, the Brandenburg concertos or whatever. And he used to, like, sing the notes as he was playing them, like, vocally out loud. And so if you listen

to recordings of him, like, you hear him going like, you know, no, right, right, right. And, you know, David, like, is, he's interacting. with you as he's kind of directing the scenes almost while the camera's rolling. So he's actually like yelling out dialogue for you to say. And you may repeat lines a whole bunch of times and he'll tell you to say something else and then you say that and then another thing and then you say that and then you'll tell the other guy in your scene to say

something and then he'll tell the camera where to go. And it becomes this kind of like psychedelic chaos. but it's an amazing feeling you I mean you just kind of like give yourself over to being manipulated by someone else and if you like are like if you have the character and you're comfortable enough in the character and you can say anything it doesn't matter you're still the guy it's like you just kind of let go and and he's very you're very very funny so so the thing usually the stuff he's asking you to say are jokes you know or or you know funny things and um and you just say it like totally committed and it just is funny it makes sense why like

obviously so many actors are attracted to him because i mean like we all heard the stories and we know he's kind of can be like you know up and down in interesting ways but like that tightrope of like terrifying and invigorating for an actor is like unlike any other i can't think of another filmmaker that works that way so that's yeah i mean it's really like it's really by the end of the shoe you feel just like exhausted by the uncertainty of everything like of coming in every day and just like not knowing what you're going to say or what's going to happen or you know if the scene is going to just like blow up and be just some like completely different thing than what you anticipated and that something brilliant is going to be discovered and some incredibly funny moment and it's just

going to like be a memorable moment or something or if it's just going to like you know if you're not whatever like your roles presence in the scene is going to end up just being totally invisible like you just don't know right on any given day and that after like a couple months it's like it's it's intense and you know you need like a rest after um but i but i i was very excited to be asked to work with him again because i mean i recently watched one of the scenes i i very rarely have gone back and watched things that i've been in in the past but i somebody sent me on twitter or something some scene from american hustle with me and bradley and louis k and i just watched i just like i mean i it just like it was so it was just so like unlike any other movie

and it was funny and alive like it just you just it just felt alive No, alive is the word. There is a palpable energy to his work, and it's the movement of the camera, but it's also just like that ineffable kind of spontaneity that clearly comes from the process you're talking about. And you're kind of shedding light on what I've not been able to kind of put my finger on in his films over the years, and now I'm kind of starting to get it of like how that happens. Yeah, I mean, I don't know if maybe some of his...

And by the way, some people, it doesn't work for some people. Do you know what I mean? And like, and, you know, some people have had experiences with him that, you know, haven't gone so well. And, you know, I don't know. I've just, you know, I've had like fairly limited, you know, I wasn't the lead in either of these movies. And I was just coming and doing my bit. But I, as it just purely on a creative level, I found it, I found it thrilling on both occasions. Well, we don't, we only have to wait like a year for that one.

I know, if I get the country I do now. It's like three years later. It's unbelievable. It's because of patience of Job at this point. It just means we'll have another excuse to chat, and we'll also have to do what we're going to do our 10-hour face-off podcast coming soon. But in the short term, to the audience one more time,

if you can't tell, I'm a big fan of this one, The Many Saints of Newark. If you're a sopranoist fan, obviously, you're going to see this, you're going to want to see this. but like as somebody that like loved sopranos but was not like just like crazy invested it just works on its own and it's just like a really well-told an amazing ensemble i should mention to beyond alessandro like everyone from vera and corey stole um my god ray leota i don't want to reveal too much but the scenes between you and ray are electric and amazing um so stories there too um our next our next chat okay fair enough fair that was a that was a thrilling experience um i raise Ray is something else. He's amazing. Yeah. No, he's amazing in the film, truly. Congratulations, man on this. I hope you get a breather from both David O' Russell and the publicity train to enjoy the moment. It's a long overdue to have this moment. So congratulations, man. And thanks for

the time. Thanks, Josh. It's good to connect. And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pleasure to do this by Josh. Hey, Michael. Hey, Tom. You want to tell him?

Or you want me to tell him? No, no, no. I got this. People out there. People. Lean in. Get close. Get close.

Listen. Here's the deal. We have big news. We got monumental news. We got snack. Particular news. Yeah. After a brief hiatus, my good friend, Michael Ian Black, and I are coming back.

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