Happy Sad Confused - Alex Wolff

Episode Date: July 10, 2018

He's only 20 with a handful of film credits on his resume but it's clear Alex Wolff has a lot of wind at his back. A supporting role in the billion dollar phenomenon that was "Jumanji" certainly helped but it's a much smaller film that will likely have greater impact in the long run. You've likely heard the buzz by now, "Hereditary" is one of the scariest and most audacious debuts in years. No spoilers here but Alex's Peter is a major reason this film is sticking with audiences. In this visit to "Happy Sad Confused," Alex talks about his journey from the Naked Brothers Band to finding his way in TV and film, all the while learning from his mom, actress and director Polly Draper, and older brother Nat along the way.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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none of you are safe. New episodes every Wednesday, wherever you get your podcasts. Today on Happy Sad Confused, Alex Wolfe breaks out in a big way with Jumanji and Hereditary. Hey guys, I'm Josh Harowitz. Welcome to the podcast. Welcome back after, yes, a holiday week off. Hope you all had a great July 4th. I'm back and Alex Wolfe is back. Well, he's not back. He's here for the first time, actually. A first-time guest on Happy Second Fused. Always love welcoming a fellow New Yorker.

Yes, people can be raised in New York City and not be feral wild animals. I am proof of that. Alex Wolf is proof of that. Our buddy Timothy Shalameh, Nat Wolf. See, that's like at least five. The rest of them. They're feral animals. No, it was a joy to have Alex Wolf in in the podcast studio,

a.k.a. my office talking all things, hereditary, which if you haven't figured it out yet, is definitely one of my favorite films of the year. It came out a few weeks back. It is still in theaters. It's going to be in theaters, I think, for a while, because it's one of those films that is spreading, I think, via word of mouth. It's got great critical praise, justifiably so. Definitely one of my favorites of the year. For those that don't know, it's a kind of a psychological horror thriller drama. It certainly escalates as the film goes. It stars Tony, Collette, Gabriel Byrne, and Alex Wolfe.

And, you know, the less said, the better. If you haven't heard the story yet, I don't want to ruin it. And we certainly don't spoil anything in this podcast. But basically, it's kind of a family drama, where in a matriarch of a family dies even before the opening credits. and then this family is dealing with the grief and loss of that and other things. And it just kind of snowballs from there. And it gets pretty intense and pretty horrific.

And it stars Tony Gillette, who was on the podcast a few weeks back. You should listen to that if you haven't already. And also Alex Wolfe, who has an amazing performance in it. And I frankly haven't seen Alex in much yet. I know him primarily through his brother Nat, who I've gotten to know quite a bit over the last few years. you know nat's been a very busy actor and things like fault on our stars uh and it was a joy to kind of sort of see him kind of start to explode onto the scene and now there's the younger wolf and he's making his own path and charting his own course and good for him uh he has a lot going on he also

starred in jumanji uh as kind of the the younger different avatar that turned into jane johnson in that ginormous hit you might have seen him in that or you might know him him for the Naked Brothers Band. Him and Nat were very successful musicians, actors on a TV show and a film and an actual band called the Naked Brothers Band, which, look, I'm 97 years old. It wasn't necessarily made for me, but I know had quite a following. So both Nat and Alex have kind of morphed their careers in different ways. Music is still close to their hearts, but acting and acting opportunities are coming at them with an increased frequency. and greater opportunities, and it's just exciting to sort of see each of them get new exciting

opportunities. And Hereditary was one that he made the most of. So really thrilled to welcome Alex Wolfe onto the show and to welcome the fellow film geek. You guys know I always love talking to fellow film nerds, and he certainly is one. And he proved his stuff in this conversation. So I hope you enjoy this chat. As you hear this probably by now, I am hopeful. if all goes according to plan, covering the new Mission Impossible film. Mission Impossible Fallout is having its world premiere in Paris. That's where I am.

Hopefully, as you hear this, talking to all the stars, talking to Tom Cruise and Simon Pegg, Rebecca Ferguson, all these people that have been on the podcast, and Henry Cavill. So, God, I love the Mission Impossible films. So hopefully it is as good as the rest,

if not better. I will report back on the next podcast. podcast to let you know how the premiere went, how the film is, how the interviews were, and make sure to check out. I'll post all that stuff on my Twitter and Instagram, Joshua Horowitz. Anyway, that's what I'm up to. I hope you guys are having a great summer, staying away from the heat. It is 150 degrees here in New York, so turn up that AC and enjoy this conversation with Alex Wolfe. Remember to rate, subscribe, review. Wow, usually I say rate, review, and subscribe. It sounded totally different when I mixed up the order.

Um, but, uh, spread the good word of happy, say, confused. And, uh, I hope you guys enjoy this chat with Alex Wolfe. Well, it's a slow holiday week, but it's not slow anymore because the one and only Alex Wolf has entered my office. How you doing, buddy? I'm doing great now that you put my name and big letters on the whiteboard. We started off, well, we've been through a lot already. Let's be honest. In the three minutes you've been here, we learned how to use the coffee machine at MTV. Yeah. Which I've never used before. Yeah, it's actually fairly easy.

I didn't know. No, but I didn't know it would be that easy. Usually I have trouble with coffee machines, but this is very easy. And that was a bonding experience, I feel like. Yeah, it was. And then you saw the famous, it's been talked about many times on this podcast, the famous New York City Board. And you were...

And I didn't like my placement, so we moved it to under Harvey Keitel in big letters. I am definitely the biggest man on the board. There's John Lithgow as almost as big. How do you say his name? You said John Lithgow. John Lithgow? With Gall? With Gall?

Lithgow? I think it's Lithgo. Lithgo? Lithgo? Wow. That's news to me. Oh my God, you've a giant E.T. thing in here.

I do. There's a lot in here, man. It's awesome. It's good to see you, man. It's good to see you. A lot going on in your life. How's the summer treating you? Summer's treating me well.

You know, it's been kind of crazy, a little busy, but... In a good way, it seems like. Yeah. It's been a really good way. You're, uh... So we have hereditary, which we're going to cover. Yeah. I'm obsessed with Tony was on the podcast a few weeks back.

Unbelievable. You are still basking in the globe of all Jumanjiness, hopefully. Yeah. When you make a billion dollars, you can bask in that for a little while, right? Just for a little bit, yeah. Yeah. And you're busy editing a film. Yeah.

Which is crazy. Yeah, we're like done. We're like picture lock now, and we'll be color correcting this next week. So I can't change it anymore. So that's it. That's the movie. It's been taken away from you. Exactly.

It's in stone. Well, we'll get to that. That's an exciting development because you directed. You wrote it too, I believe. Wrote it, directed, and sardin it, yeah. Crazy. So we're taping this the day after July 4th. Are there Wolf family July 4th traditions?

Is it a big holiday? Nat I weren't together. It's not a huge holiday. I mean, especially with those guys are president. But my brother was in L.A. I was in New York I didn't really have any big plans but I sort of invited a few friends

and a few friends invited a few friends and soon enough like I was just kicking people out of my house there was way too many people at my house and I was like this has got to stop so I just kicked everybody out Are you that guy? Are you the guy that brings people together? Are you the hostess with the mostus? Oh yeah really? Really?

100%. Yeah. I bring everybody together. Yeah? I think anybody would say that I'm like, I like get everybody to be like... Not me. I would not say that. Yeah, I guess. Other than you, someone who doesn't know how to work the coffee machine in your own place. Help me.

No, I mean, I think that like I'll bring friends who would normally be together together. And I'm just like, like last night at the party, there were a bunch of people who didn't know each other. So I would make everybody talk to someone they didn't know. So friend groups wouldn't just be like... So I'm like a bully. I'm like a social... No, it's a good thing. It's like a good thing, bully.

which can great things can come of that or horrible things frankly too. Yeah, I get people out of their shell which could be interpreted as a bully like a good bully, a helpful bully, like a self-help bully. I like to, I feel like I like to separate groups. I like to, I don't like, you know,

different sides of family to intermix. I don't like, I just like everybody just to keep to their corners, no friction. I don't even want you to know each other. Interesting. That's a different tactic. I think that's a tactic that isn't a good one. As I said it out loud, it sounded horrible. It sounded actually like...

It sounded a little like fascistee. I'm going to take it back. Everybody should hang out together. I'm like, no, everybody should stay with people of their own kind. Like, what? That sounds horrible. Yeah, no, I definitely feel the opposite way. I'm always a sucker for bringing New Yorkers in.

I'm born and raised New Yorker myself. I think it's why I'm. gravitate towards the I mean you know would you go to school I was so I'm 90,000 years old so just keep that in mind like my school has been like decimated 300 years ago but I was a public school kid I grew up in the upper west side cool and then I did like one of the PS yes PS 87 and I was 44 on the upper west nice and then I did I did actually go to Stuyvesant for a year and then Dalton so I did do private oh wow Dalton yikes I delton did you love Dalton do you like it no no no no no it was fine I was just it was also weird because I came in as a

sophomore and those kids all knew each other since they were in kindergarten. So I was odd man out from the start. That's a nightmare. So what was, what was your schooling situation? Did you do the homeschooling? I went to real school. No, I went to, um, I went to real school. Then, um, it was called real school or um, it was called real school. It's called real school ink, actually. No, I went to, um, place called Friends Seminary. Um, and, um, and, uh, when I got on Naked Brothers band and when Naked brother's band kind of took off it became harder to do that so I went to school called but I didn't want to do homeschooling me and my brother were like no that's a terrible idea so we um went to my brother first and then I came a year later to school called PCS that's absolutely amazing yeah yeah children's

school yeah they're amazing it's like literally just a real school but um but you can miss school for doing professional stuff you know so it's the ideal situation and it's not like fame or something it's not like um they're not teaching you the craft they're just they're just making allowances to make sure you can live a normal life absolutely yeah exactly and they help you do like cladane's way back when go there right sir dand's went there um scholar trhanson went there and some people went there to name drop a few but one thing that is very funny is when they do school plays they are basically Broadway musicals i mean i i yeah i remember seeing our town with the high school when i was like in eighth grade or something i was like this is like

The best thing I've ever seen. I mean, it was the most unbelievable thing I've ever seen. I'm sure. Yeah, like the alumni, like group meetings for that could be like, you can go straight to Broadway, probably. Oh, 100%. No, it's really the place, even the seventh grade play is like legally blonde. Well, so Millie Shapiro, yeah.

Who's in hereditary, went to PCS. Oh, no kidding. So, yeah, so I knew her and I saw her in a play and I was like, that girl's unbelievable, like unbelievable singer and actress. And then, you know, she's my sister. She's amazing in the film, too. Unbelievable. So, yeah, but I also feel like, because I don't know about you, when I encounter people out in the wild, especially outside of New York, or even in New York, when they find out that I grew up in the city, they look at me like some kind of like feral beast.

Like, how did you, how do you even like? You grew up in the city? Oh, no, no, no. But I'm saying, like, where did you live? And I'm like, in the city. On the streets, Manhattan, like, underneath like a bridge? Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

I don't think people understand. I think it's, but I loved it. I mean, I think it's the best. I don't think you could do it any other way. I was surrounded by every type of ethnicity, person. I got punched in the face on the subway. That's all this past week. Yeah, exactly.

No, I just feel like I've been really exposed to the world. That's what I always say too. Yeah, you are forcibly colliding with every segment of society in a great way. I mean, even if you, frankly, even if you grow up with means in New York, it's just the nature of the city. It's like you can't walk around in like a bubble in New York. Right. you're going to go into the subway and get dirty and meet every kind of person. You have to.

So your parents, obviously, mom and actress, among other things, dad, a musician, among other things, were they, how did they end up in New York? Do you even know? Yeah, I know that they were in L.A., and my mom went to do play at New York and came here and just stayed here. And we still kind of go back and forth between L.A. New York. My parents have a place in L.A., but I have a place here. New York. So I mostly stay here

in New York, but you know, we're kind of, we're kind of bi-coastal, but I'm mostly a New Yorker. Got it. And I avoid L.A. at all cost. Do you drive? No, no, absolutely not. I drive in movies and I almost always kill someone. I don't have a license, and I'm twice your age, so don't worry. Yeah. No, would you

grew up in New York? Why would we have a license? Like, there's just absolutely no reason to. Totally. So, um, where to begin? Okay, there's a lot to talk about. So, um, because I feel like I, it's funny because I've done a lot with Nat over the last few years. So I feel like I know you in proximity. I'm like, you know, I know of you and I've started, and now I've started to talk to you a little bit. I saw you at the Jamongi premiere.

So part of me just wants to make Nat jealous by having you on the podcast first. So I hope that's accomplished. Oh, I love that. The age difference between you guys is what, like three years? Three years, yeah. Got it. So when did that start to like collapse? Because you're now at the age where like that probably doesn't matter as much. But when you're like four and seven or ten and thirteen, it feels like a chasm. Well, it always is a little bit different because of the movie roles we do are always age-wise different. I mean, it's not like, yeah, there's not many things where we're overlapping in age because he's three years older. And the difference between someone who's

23 and 20 can be decent, that can be a decent difference. But no, I mean, it doesn't matter. And honestly, it probably stopped mattering when we were teenagers. You know, it stopped to, actually, no, no, because in school, it did matter that I was in ninth grade and he was in 12th. Yeah, the 12th graders don't want to hang out with the ninth graders. Yeah, so actually, probably after I graduated high school as when it was just like, you know, who cares? Well, it is interesting, though. Actually, I didn't even, didn't even occur to me until you mentioned it because, like, now you're entering a stage where you could conceivably be up for the same roles. Like, that age difference isn't that huge anymore. And the difference between like a

25-year-old and a 22-year-old is negligible. Right. Has that happened yet? Is that something that's going to be odd? Very rarely. And very rarely, it actually doesn't happen very often. It's happened a few times, but I, it's, I don't know, I mean, we kind of, we look very different just in our ethnicities, kind of. I look like I'm from like a different country. But, you know, we're just very different actors, even though I'm feeling like I'm always kind of just looking to see what Nat's doing to be inspired and copied as much as possible. But we're just very, very different, so it doesn't happen very often, like at all. But, um, it's, um, it's a lot. But, um, it's, It occasionally will, and it's always, we're so much less competitive with each other than, like, I don't know, other actors.

Like, you know, we're like, we're just kind of excited for each other. And since this past, you know, whatever, two years has been pretty nuts. For me, Nets has been, like, you know, super excited. Yeah. So do you guys talk about industry, acting all of the above? Like, not really. Really? Not that much.

I mean, we're in a band together, so, I mean, we talk about, like, moving. And we talk about the creative part of movies and whatever, but it's boring to talk about just career stuff. Right. Who cares? Right. But, yeah, I guess we talk about music. We talk about, you know, girls. Let's talk about crushes, chicks.

Guy stuff. We talk about the state of Israel and Palestine. Guy stuff. Guy stuff. Classic guy stuff. So let's talk about movie sensibilities because that's. that's always an important part of someone's DNA as far as I'm concerned.

You already made fun of my Dune poster. I get it. It's okay. Most people hate the original Dune movie. Yes. I was a young boy when Dune came out and it had a formative effect on me. It was just funny that like I walk in and the posters you have. Like great movies and then. Yeah. Yeah. Color of money Back to the future and Dune.

Well, it's like the 80s. It's my 80s walls. So you grew up in the 80s? Yeah. How old are you? Jesus Christ. You look like you're like 23. I appreciate that. I'm 42, man. No, you're not. I swear to God. No, you're not.

Yeah. I'll show you my... I was going to say burst. You're not 42. I am 42. No, you're not. I love this part of the conversation. I am.

Are you really 42? Yeah. Okay, for the record, Alex is having like a moment. This is very sweet. You're 42? I bathe in oil valet every morning for three hours. Dude, what? That is crazy.

Look, you look literally like if you told me you were 25, I believe it. That's very sweet, man. Wow. So, let's tell... Yeah, I'm not just like an 80s fetishist. than the like must live in the 80s. No, that is nuts. But let's talk about your sensibilities growing up.

Like what were the movies that rocked your world? Because one of the fun things is like something like hereditary is going to rock the world of like the 15 year old that like gets in sees their first like R rated movie or whatever. It's going to fuck them up. Yeah. I think it's going to rock the world of like 30s and 40s year old and it's going to ruin the lives of the 15 year olds to the 20 year olds. It's always traumatized the 8 year old that snuck in. Yeah. No, the 8 year old who walks in.

he's over he's going to military he's going to the military it's done yeah what were the ones that when you think back to growing up what were the ones that really rocked your world as a kid funny I was just thinking about this the movie that probably rocked my world the most was stand by me

stand by me when I was a kid because I saw when I was a kid and I was like that is that's what it is that's just the shit like that's the best it can get just these kids and I just remember thinking that that was just so I loved I love stand by me I love the Goonies

I loved I was really I was into Annie Hall when I was pretty young through my brother and you know I always love the Harry Potter movies I mean this is when I was really young

Were you like going to like the bookstore when the new ones came out Were you that age? Yeah yeah It was right for that No I was psyched I was psyched up about the Harry Potter movies I remember just being

just freaking out about them every time they came out So I love the Harry Potter movies But no I watched Oh airplane I loved airplane when I was a little kid I loved airplane I saw one Fleur of the Cuckoo's Nest when I was really young.

And I remember not really just being disturbed by it, but being really moved by it. Yeah. And yeah. There are a few. Yeah, because I remember, look, as you can tell, I'm a film geek. Like, it's always like that first time that you start to like notice the filmmaker, the director. And then you start to like go down like that path and like, you know, you see the godfather. And you're like, wait, I'd see everything this guy ever directed.

Oh, yeah. And same thing like Mules Schwartner for Cuckoo's Nest. Like those guys. Oh, Amadeas. Also, Amadeus is an amazing movie. Actually, that is, like, really young. I saw that when I was, like, five or six. And that movie formed me.

Kind of a perfect movie. Yeah, perfect. Yeah. Perfect three-hour movie. Well, it is kind of. But it's kind of, you're right, because I saw that at a pretty young age, too, and it's shockingly, like, entertaining.

Yeah, it's not boring. It's interesting. It's three hours, but it's not boring at all. Yeah. At all. Because he's kind of like a rock star. Yeah, he is. So, but it's interesting because, like,

so was your, like, were you, you know, obviously, naked brother. band is something that you got involved in quite young so like were you on like what are your first memories of like being on a set like is it being on your own set is it being on mom's set like what's the what was your first understanding of like the the machinations of making art making this stuff yeah it's interesting i mean i i i feel like i was a little bit protected from looking at it like making uh you know it was sort of about just having fun with my friends and my mom did this really amazing thing because she was you know she directed naked brothers band and all that

she did this amazing thing where she kind of just was quietly filming us you know being sneaky about it almost you know and she'd be like okay okay just move a little bit okay great and just keep talking you know she'd make it so this thing didn't feel like it just felt like I had to position myself a little differently and then hang out with my friends or like you know I had to do this weird makeup on my face but I could just hang out with my friends right and she wasn't making you do things you wouldn't want to do anyway it was just sort of like adding a slight 10% of artifice around it yeah except one time except one time like one of the first episodes of naked brother's band this makes my mom look awful my mom is great on the whole show and she's amazing but

one episode when the network was first there and they were like kind of scoping us out it was like our first episode a basketball had to hit my head and I was being kind of a diva and I was like I don't want it to hit my head I don't want to know my mom was like come on tough enough you know you'll be fine she's like look and she grabs a basketball and throws it at my head and i just start crying and i just start like hysterically crying the network's like this crazy woman she's like okay great let's start rolling and just like it's the only way i can get him to work trust me it's hilarious see what i do to nat yeah exactly yeah so how old were you when the the camera started to roll on naked brothers band on that move first movie was I was six and

then the show I did when I was eight crazy so I had two years to go to the actor's studio No, I'm just kidding. Mavski, the whole thing. Exactly. But did your mom teach you a little bit about acting? Like, was at that point, was it too young to, like, teach you stuff? Or, like, at one point, can you start to get technique as a kid? Well, my mom, and it's not very cool.

Like, it's not cool to say that your mom, whatever. But it's the truth. Like, my mom taught me everything I know about everything, really. I mean, my mom told me everything I know about acting, whatever. But she really tried to keep us away from, like, I remember I started working with an acting coach really young because, you know, the network was like, well, why don't they work with that in coach? and she stopped me from working with an acting coach. She was like, you know, and she said, you know,

later on you'll find someone who's great as an acting coach or whatever, but right now, you know, I see developing habits or stuff, you know, and I want you to just be free. And it was really important for me as a kid to be like that. It was really important for me to, and I feel like my whole career has been trying to tap into that freedom I had as a kid, you know. Right. Well, for any actor, that's what it is.

It's about sort of like capturing that like, I mean, sounds cliched and kind of silly, like high flutin, but that innocence, that rawness, it's like about stripping away. Like, yeah, you can learn all the technique you want, but in the end, it's all, it's ironically about kind of stripping all that away. So you feel like, like it's just bare and you're not seeing anything on the screen except the human being. Yeah, I mean, there's not a huge difference between me crying about the basketball hitting my head on Eggie Brothers Band and me having the panic attack on the bleachers and hereditary. I mean, it's the same gut reaction thing. And, you know, I don't know what, I don't know what, I don't know.

what training really even means, but I just know that that shit is hard to do no matter what. Yeah. So how do you get, how do you, starting to get into a little bit of hereditary stuff? Thanks for the segue. Accidental segue. No, you're a pro clearly. But like you go to some super intense places, all the actors do, but you, you know, you in particular even, there's like a series of scenes that are just as extreme as you can get.

how tough was it to kind of go to those heights and did you feel like you were out on a limb or did you feel like you were in safe hands you were the first time filmmaker give me a sense

yeah I mean it was a breeze man no no it was really hard every day was like the hardest day I've had ever and I really

think Ari is responsible for me feeling that safe because I mean I don't really care if your first time director or if you're a season director, if you don't feel safe, you're not going to be able to just do what I did in this movie. And I think Ari is a genius. And I think he gets a lot of credit for how brilliant he is with camera movement, how brilliant he is with his script, how brilliant he is with just, you know, blocking and staging and how amazing that all is. But really, while he's doing

all that, he is so intimate with actors and he cares so much about performance. And he really is like, he really reminds me when you hear people talk about Cindy Lumet or young Martin Scorsese or young, you know, Milus Foreman or just all the guys, he's just, he's one of the guys, or Paul Thomas Anderson, like he's one of the guys, just wait, like he's

one of those dudes. So, yeah, for me, I mean, I was just, I was a disaster a little bit emotionally and I had to just bring myself there. I was like a controlled disaster. We both just decided we were going to Kamakasi the plane right into the ground together, and I think we both did. And I think we both went through something and it was cathartic and it was hard and it was whatever But it was also great and it was good and it was um and then you can see in the movie that I think we both really went through it

I mean we really did go through that whole thing and um yeah i totally on board with everything you're saying about r a as a as a as a as a first-time feature filmmaker like i'm just i'm always attracted to like a confidence behind the camera and just like he just shows like maybe unjustifiably for a first time feature filmmaker, but he, like, knows what he wants. Yeah, it's frustrating for the rest of humanity. But it's also, you know, there must be also a learning and inspiration from seeing someone like Tony, Colette,

acting opposite you in some of these super extreme moments because she's going for broke too. And, like, you know, this is one of our great actors. So I guess when you see her, like, pushing herself and, being willing to put herself out there and you know what could be embarrassing or silly if done wrong or in the wrong hands like when you see her do it like oh if she's willing to go there i better fucking go there too right i mean uh i think kind of everybody did that i mean um milly and

gabriel also just you know really threw themselves out there and i think it was a it was sort of a whole everybody put themselves on the line for this movie and i think that you know i was inspired by every single person just putting themselves out there. It was really amazing. Are you spending as much time like the summer like going to as many theaters as possible seeing this with an audience? I actually haven't seen it at all and it sucks that I haven't done that. I know I should. But apparently it's still sold out every screening apparently or a night because all my friends have gone to see it like last week. Someone said that it was sold out. So I'm still going to try and go see a sold out screening but just hear everybody scream. I've seen the movie twice and

that was more than enough. I mean like it just it's just watching. myself just get the shit kicked out of me so it's just like you see i enjoy that i want to see me the shit kicked out of well then just go see any of my movies in the past two years that's your thing exactly um but no it's i can tell it's permeated the culture and it started to go somewhere where my parents went to see it and this is not a film that my parents would ever see yeah and they were just hearing about it's not even for me um but it it is an experience like the first time i saw i was telling tony this like i've been hearing the buzz about this. I missed it at, it was at Sundance, right? Yeah, I missed it at Sundance. Me too.

But, um, like, by the time I got to a critic screening of it, every critic in the screening like, looked at each other before the screening started and they were like, are we going to be okay? Like, yeah, like, are we in this together? Because you hold my hand? Because I don't know if, and sure enough, like, the last like, by the last 20 minutes, I was like a wreck. But in a great way. I mean, you know, it's, uh, it's kind of, yeah, it's one of my favorite film going experiences in a while. That's awesome. It's pretty great, man. Yeah, it's... So, bouncing around...

Oh, here's something I want to mention. I didn't even realize this at the time, but so you mentioned Gabriel Byrne. You were on in treatment, which is a great show. Yeah, it is a great show. A great show. Ran a few seasons. Some great actors came out of that.

I mean, Vashikowska was on it. Whatever. What's his name? Dane Dahan. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. So what was your experience like on that? Yeah, that was very interesting.

And Gabriel was my serious mentor on that show. And he was like, I told him, I was like, you met me at two very critical points in my life and guided me, were my guiding light through two very important emotional times in my life. And I remember Naked Brothers Band was over and I didn't really know, you know, what I was doing. And I remember being in the city and I sort of had, there's a big jump between 11 and 12 and nobody tells you that, you know, because you're not taken seriously. but for all the 12-year-olds out there listening to this, 11 to 12 to 13 is probably the biggest, like, cataclysmic shift that you could have. And I remember being- And throw in the end of a job like, naked brother's band.

No, exactly. And it was like, what the hell is going on? And I remember just really changing as a person. And so then I got in treatment about this messed up kid who doesn't want to live with his dad as divorced parents. And that was the first time I'd ever done anything really emotional. and serious and Gabriel was there for me and he said, you know, he went

into my trailer when I was 12 and he said listen to me, you're going to be a movie star I'm telling you right now. And then I brought that up in Redisair. I said, you know, that's like been my guiding that's been like my mantra, you know, it's been and he was like, yeah, you did. You said that to me when I was 12 and he was like, I never said that. I don't believe in that. He's like, he's like, I think you've gotten to be

a really better actor but I would never say you're going to be a star. I'm like, well, then Gabriel, God damn it. It's like in Talladega Nights. Talladega Nights when his dad's like, if you ain't first or last. And then he's like, I never said that. There's second.

There's third. There's fourth. So yeah, Gabriel did that to me. Was that one of those shows? I mean, it's been a while since I saw it. But I remember it always occurring to me because they were almost like plays, like the volumes of dialogue.

Like was it tough for, how old were you that? Like 15 or something? 12. Oh, you were 12? So this is the 12. Yeah, yeah. How do you like memorize those volumes of words at 12?

or maybe it's easier. Well, I wasn't in a session. I wasn't in a session, so I was his son outside, so it wasn't like that crazy. But I've been, I learned how to read while memorizing, basically. Because I mean, I could read at five, but like when I was six, I was memorizing dialogue. So, you know, there were words that I was memorizing that I'd never read before. So right now, when I, like, read stuff, I pretty much have a photographic memory because when I was little, I just would, you know. So memorizing is not difficult for me at all.

It's a good skill to have. It's pretty good for our. For your industry in particular. Yeah. It's good. Well, honestly, that's like the thing I've said before. But, like, when I see, like, a play, like, it's not about even the acting. I'm like, how did they memorize all this dialogue? Like, that's like...

If you're thinking that during the play, then that is a bad play. If you're just... No, it's just I'm not. Maybe that's true. That was tough, actually. With my play, I did a few months ago, that was tough. Yeah? Yeah.

Memorizing on the dialogue. So how do you look back? How many years was Naked Brothers Band at this? so I'm 20 I did it at 6 I mean you do the math That's probably Six to 11 you said

Oh oh oh no Yeah so I did from Yeah I did Naked Brothers band From 6 to 10 Yeah But I thought you said how many years Since I started

Oh no no no no Sorry So the run of the movie And then the TV show I was curious Yeah because there was two years Between the movie and the show So

Yeah it was three years on the show And then one year for the movie And forgive me because, again, I'm 90,000 years old, so I wasn't the demographic watching your show at the time. Like, how big did you guys get? Like, how big did it feel? Again, like there's nothing to compare it to when you're nine years old. Well, we went to the Kids' Choice Awards and that was basically the biggest. I mean, that really was.

And I almost feel like really lucky that at each stage in my career, I feel like I've gotten to do the things that are the coolest for me right now. Like, as a kid, the coolest things were kids' choice awards and, you know, Drake and Josh, and, you know, that, and then to follow Drake and Josh, and then, you know, my brother was nominated for Kids Choice Award. We performed to the Kids Choice Awards. Like, Rihanna put her hand in my hair and call me a cutie. Like, I remember being like, well, this is, it doesn't get better than this. I have peaked at nine. Exactly. Story of my life.

You have no idea. But then, like, now, you know, the coolest thing is, like, 824. and, like, you know, movies like Dahmer and, you know, Patriots Day and Peterberg, and those are, like, the coolest things. And then to be a part of that, it's just I feel like it's going to keep, you know, evolving. Or I'll, like, die tomorrow and nothing more. Got to set new goals. Yeah.

So, yeah, the big transition from 11 to 12, which is, by the way, one of the first time that that discussions happened on this podcast in 250 episodes. Probably ever. I don't think anyone talks about that. You're uncovering controversial subjects. But then, so after in treatment, in the years between that and Dahmer and Patriots Day and Jumanji, where are you, how big a priority is acting in music then? Like, are you just being a kid? Are you like, no, it was a big priority is just no one wanted to, no one wants to hire you when you were that age.

And nobody tells you that. And I'm here, hopefully, some 13 year old, 14 year olds, it is impossible to, and I did two movies. I did Hair Brain and I did a Burger's Guide to everything. Also, movies I'm proud of. I mean, um, uh, a particularly bird's guide to everything was like a,

I was, it was one of the most amazing experiences of my life. And I did it when I was 14 and it was a bunch of 14, 15 year olds. And it was the most fun I've ever had in my life. Right. But, um, I mean, it's really difficult to get work from literally the time of like 14 to,

or 13 to 16. Like what kind of stuff are you going up for? Is it like, going for everything. And, it's really hard to get it because you're at a weird age and they want either a legal 18 or they want a little kid and you have pimples and you have a big you know nose and you're like you know you're trying to grow out of this thing and it's just painful painful period and you start to

question yourself and you know I slowly but surely was doing more and more auditioning and getting better and I started writing cat in the movement I was about 15 because I was going out with all my friends and it was beginning of high school and it was this very interesting time and New York, you know, we're talking about growing up in New York, and that was really exhilarating. So while I wasn't getting work when I was like 15 and 16 or something, I was writing the script, and I started making these shorts and really kind of getting my beak wet with directing and whatever. And then 16 hit, and I got this movie Coming to the Rye. And from there, it sort of started to become kind of constant. It was coming through the Rye. And then it was Big Factory winning two. And then it was Patriots Day. And then that was a whole new thing. And how's it and Jumanji and then it started to just become this thing and now I'm here but it you know it wasn't and then and then through all that I was developing the script of cat in the moon I was getting it off the ground I was figuring out what I was going to do and then I just made it you know it's kind of a I mean whether it's a luck or some inherent you know self-preservation the fact that you kind of like

channeled you know constant rejection at 15 you know which is like the worst time I can think of to be constantly rejected like I was mess at 15 anyway. Of course. Going on dozens of auditions and being told, yeah, but your voice is changing and you're fat. Absolutely. Like, Jesus Christ.

It's so, so, so kudos to you for like being like, you know, I'm going to go hide in my room and write for a bit. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So, and that must be fascinating. So you mentioned this film that you've been writing for a while and that you've shot and that you've now picture locked. Amazing.

And like, that you started, I mean, this is like super bad all over again. you hear the stories about those guys and they started writing it when they were like 12 or something. Yeah, yeah, totally. So you've been working on this since you were, you were a different guy. 15, you were 15.

Now you're 20. What, how did that project morph or change? How was it different than it started? I was talking to someone about that. Honestly, the characters changed. I mean, you couldn't even, of course they changed. The dialogue changed and everything. But I was interesting, I was talking with the cast

about this like the other night because I was hanging out with a lot of them. And I was like, wow, you know, when I look back at the original draft, the actual order of the scenes are almost identical. You know, there's a few scenes different, you know, a few things that happen, and the dialogue's completely different. The structure is there, but the structure was there kind of in the original format, you know, it was always kind of there. And it's interesting how it's important not to get rid of the magic that comes out of you in the first draft. Yeah. But it is also important to not make a movie that you wrote when you were 15.

And so it really did change a lot. I mean, you can't even compare it almost. But just scene order-wise, it's interesting how he goes here. He does this. All the plot points are very similar. It just got a lot more mature. I got more perspective on the characters, you know? I'm sure.

But it's good to not get rid of everything that you wrote when you were sort of in the midst of it because I was writing when I was seeing around me. It's like a fever picture like experience. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you kind of take a step back in. did you have the I mean, you know, for any first time filmmaker and you'd done some shorts, but like doing a feature

is a different ball of wax. Yeah. And you're probably 19 at the time when you're on set or something. Did you have like the respect of the crew? Did it with these friends? Like, was, did it feel like you were? I mean, honestly, it's, you have more respect than you do as a young actor.

I mean, it's like, it's more their job to respect you a little bit. But honestly, I mean, they came on. I would have, I expected everybody to just be like, well, fuck this. kid you know like I kind of had that more in my head and so I was kind of like well I got to prove myself and just be so respectful of everybody and I mean I felt lucky because people were like you know when you're making a short especially when you make it for no money the way I did all my shorts

you're like surprised if you can make anything work and then like people are coming up to you they're like do you like a burnt orange or like a peach orange and I'm like oh my god it doesn't matter like that's amazing yeah exactly you're just blown away that people care enough to do that I'm like 20 I'm making my film I don't care at all like that's awesome like and then and you guys just find a balance I mean you start to figure it out and then you start to assume your position and you start to come in and you realize it's your job to be whatever but I think it's important to just not think about how old they are how old you are and not think about your position versus their position you're all there together you're all working the same hours you're all doing this thing and you just want to make the movie so if you just focus every day on just the creative element of it things seem to fall in place. Are you at the point now having recently, like, picture locked, do you love it? Do you hate it? Are you sick of it? Or you just, like, want to get it out beyond the edit room? Like, where's your head out right now? It just depends on the day. I mean, there are things that I really wish it could have done differently. Very small things, but for the most

part, it is way better than I thought it was going to be. And everybody is amazing in it. Like, they really are. Like, Mike Epps gives an unbelievable dramatic performance. He's just unbelievable, and most people know him for being really funny and being this hilarious, crazy comedian. And that brought a lot to it anyway, but no one has seen a lot of the work that I'd seen, like, a movie like Sparkle or, like, Bessie, he was unbelievably dramatic in those movies. And that was all I'd seen him do. I hadn't seen him do stand-up. I just saw this two movies, and I was like, that guy is the shit. And, like, I need to get him in my movie.

And then, like, Stefania Owen is just an unbelievable actress and who's going to be in beach bums. and all these different things. And Scholar Dazzondo and Tommy Nelson. And I just got so lucky with this cast. It's just unbelievable. So give me a sense where you're at. So you're done with that for now. The buzz off of Hereditary has to be a nice boon for the career, I would imagine.

I mean, Jumanji alone would have been nice. But it's like Jumagi is a different kind of thing. I mean, that's seen by everybody. But it's, and, you know, being in a billion-dollar movie has its advantages. but I would say arguably probably this kind of role in hereditary is more impactful for the career even than definitely yeah right are you already seeing sort of like a difference in kind of being up for different kind of things and and just sort of discussions are a little more interesting yeah I mean I mean like

people really cool people know who I am from this movie and it's really rare that you get that where you're you ripped your heart out for a movie you know you were broken you had no idea what you did i almost blacked out that whole movie because i just you know gave everything i had and whatever happened i was like i don't know like people would ask how to go how to when and i was like i don't know you know it was such an emotional thing but then to then have like barry jenkins being like you know it's great and and you know directors contacting me that performance is really good and stuff and so now it's it's the only real advantage is i don't have to you know just self-tape as often i can go in and meet a director

and um yeah you have a right to be at the party now yeah exactly welcome to the table it's not like you have to like um i'm totally no i'm i'm in a real actor too a hundred percent yeah i mean yeah so that so that's really it and i'm just getting to do stuff that i really have always wanted to do and um and and that's really exciting like was it i mean we were talking about not at the outset like was it informative like you know because you know i started talking about two or three years ago and like he had like a flush of like you know really cool exciting opportunities that he's been able to capitalize on. And I'm like trying to do the math

of like where you were at then when like fault was happening, et cetera. Is that informative for you as you kind of like embark on this kind of like next stage of a career and kind of make the right choices? I mean, there's certain things that Nat really can help me with by talking to me about it, but it's kind of its own thing. I mean, this movie's kind of a different thing

that I've ever really experienced. I mean, it's been a crazy year. I mean, it's hard to, yeah, it's hard to just make it like a, what's that word? There's a good word, quantitate. Quantify. Quantify. Yeah, yeah. It's hard to quantify how each thing, you know, affects or whatever.

You know, there's no rulebook, and it's totally different. And this has been a totally different experience because it's been so in the zeitgeist and it's been so disturbing. And I think that in the past year, with the exception of Jumanji, I've done so many disturbing things that I think Nat has not known what to tell me about like, well, I don't know what to do when you do like this fucking, all this really, really dark shit. Like I'm not sure exactly what to tell you. But I think he's been helpful and just, I think he's just very helpful just as an actor and as a friend, as my brother, you know, that's what he helps me the most is just emotionally enough having a hard time. He can just be there. That's the best thing

But it's just different It's just crazy You know friends And you feel it's kind of isolating Being in a experience like this actually What's the Who are the directors you're obsessed with right now Like are there is there

Do you keep like the running list? Oh yeah of course Well I mean PTA is always the guy Paul Thomas Anderson's always He's the guy He's amazing Robert Eggers is amazing

He's great I think R is a genius Anyone that A24 works with basically just getting like that group text with whatever director was they've got going yeah pretty amazing um trying to think of like because there's been so many amazing guys who have come out well what genre you know because i don't know i mean so it sounds like yeah where are your sensibility genre wise are they all over the place all over the place yeah i just love really good movies i see like everything i mean i'm like a movie buff so i see everybody i mean because like i know

like, I think you like Instagram or something like a thing about Tom Cruise the other day. Yeah, I love Tom Cruise is the best. Tom Cruise is the top five actors all the time. Yeah, I'm going off to see a mission next week. Of course. And they're doing, I love it also because like, it's amazing. Alterer motive is like they do the premiere. I've been to Dubai for a Mission Impossible movie.

Oh, my God. What was the last one? Oh, Vienna. And I'm going to Paris next week. Oh, my God. And yeah, those movies are like my jam. They're like my favorite franchise going. Yeah, they're amazing.

I mean, they're amazing. And I love him in those movies. but I really do want him to do like more Magnolias and I love Tom Cruise and I love him in the action movies and I respect his career choices it's like I get it and I'm not fighting him 110% but that guy as an actor is no really one of the best magnolia Jerry McGuire Rain Man um risky business he does not get his due as an actor because of Scientology and because of all these different things the same thing with like someone like Kanye does not get the you know because of everything's going on with him politically like these people are the geniuses

of our generation and you know i was kind of bummed that because there was rumors that uh tom was gonna be in the tarantino movie uh yeah he's that gonna do it well i i don't know if it was tarantino's call or not so he's doing you know it's brad pitt and leonardo so i think he was the brad pitt part i don't know if it was tom's called or both they're both great i mean please but like i i think tom doesn't need anything but i would love to see tom like in the hands of someone like tarantino or ptia again yeah yeah um who else who's the uh have you who's the uh who's the uh who's the who's the the actor you've worked with that's kind of influenced you the most or blown you away the most so far. Yeah, probably Gabriel or Chris Cooper was super unbelievable for me.

He's one of those guys. We were talking about like authenticity. Like Cooper like doesn't, there's no false. He's just unbelievable. He's one of the best. Yeah. He's just unbelievable. He played Salinger in this movie coming to the Ryan.

He was just, he was unbelievable. I was inspired by all my, the cast and my movie. inspired by. Yeah, Millie, I would have to say, I hadn't seen her off screen. Like, I saw her in an interview with you. Yeah. And I was like, oh, this is like an amazing performance. Yeah, like she's just so.

I mean, she's so fun. We're just, like, we're best friends. I love her so much. Do you enjoy auditioning? No, it's awful. It's awful. I honestly, I've grown to like it a little more. And when you get in the room with the director, it's fun to audition.

I like the pressure. And I like, it's the same thing with, like, theater. I like the pressure of, of, of there being. stakes because it's very easy to be sitting in a trailer, sleeping, and then going out and having to do an emotional scene. There's no stakes and it just feels like, what am I doing? It doesn't feel like, I like there's stakes of

just being there and you've got to do it once and you don't have the job and you've got to fight for it. I like that hunger and whatever. But when you're just going in for just like a casting director or a casting associate, it really can be hard, and especially when it's something that you're doing it for the bills or you're doing it because you want to keep working and it can be tough. And so

just do it like anybody's listening. Just like, just just do it and and you there are fun things you can do with every single thing like i did a scene from sisterhood of the traveling pants recently in an acting class and it was really important for me to do that it was very exciting actually yeah which part did you play was it was one of the sisters one of the guys okay no it's one of the guys who are written so underwritten it's hilarious i mean they come in and they have like nine lines but i did like an irish accent and i was doing like we're just doing it it was really fun to do that like yeah it's cool what is um i was saying my love for mission

Is there a franchise that you love right now? Like what's your, we talk about being the PTAs. Okay, what's your, what's your, what's, what are you, are you a Star Wars guy? Are you a Harry Potter? I'm a Harry Potter guy. I'm obsessed with Harry Potter. Yeah. I'm a Star Wars guy too. Yeah. I love Star Wars. Oh, you know what? This is going to be bad. I'm, this kind of, I'm going to lose all respect. And I, by the way. I stand. We started there. Don't worry. You do love Dune. But this is worse than Dune. I promise. And I love him. And I'll stand by them.

I love the Final Destination movies and I just watched every single one of them in a row with all my friends and I love them I love them. I know people that love them I've heard you're not alone okay really no I like I you feel alone I love it with friends

I mean of course it's probably a good group experience it's the best group experience and there's no movie that you can put on that everybody has fun I mean you watch a dude just like arms get cut off you just start laughing I mean I love those movies and like at summer worse than others, but some are, like, really good, just classic, gory fun, and I love

them. Well, as your new advisor agent, I don't take the Final Destination movie. Do the Harry Potter movie. I'll never do Final Destination, but I will watch them to the day I die on a roller coaster. What would be an irony. Have they done that in a Final Destination movie? Someone watching a Final Destination movie on a roller coaster? No, that would be awesome.

Someone watching Final Destination 3. It's too meta for those films. Amazing. It's been good to get to know you today, man. Escaping the heat a little bit. It's a good thing. Everybody should check out Hereditary. If I haven't tattered it enough on this podcast, you know I'm obsessed.

It's one of the best of the year. It's going to be in my top ten, definitely. And congratulations and all the success, man. I'm excited to see the first directing effort. I assume you're going to try and do the festival kind of thing with that. Yeah, totally. Nice. Keep me posted.

100%. And, yeah, let's tell you're the first wolf on the podcast. Suck it, Nat. Yeah, good. I love that. Thanks, buddy. Thanks a lot. Appreciate that.

And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh. American history is full of infamous tales that continue to captivate audiences, decades or even hundreds of years after they happened. On the infamous America podcast, you'll hear the true stories of the Salem Witch Trials

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