Happy Sad Confused - Alexandra Daddario, Doug Liman

Episode Date: May 24, 2017

You’d be hard-pressed to find two films more dissimilar than “Baywatch” and “The Wall,” currently in theaters, but that’s what “Happy Sad Confused” is all about — and, indeed, this week’s show runs the gamut.   First up is Alexandra Daddario, best known for the “Percy Jackson” films and a career-altering turn in “True Detective,” who now finds herself reinvented in a sexy comic role in “Baywatch.” According to Daddario, it wasn’t all smooth sailing in her career at the outset, as she shocked her parents (two accomplished attorneys) and herself by embracing acting. Come for the “Baywatch” talk, stay for the classy chat about boobs and penises.   Later in the show, Josh welcomes director Doug Liman (his new movie, “The Wall,” is now in theaters), a filmmaker who has consistently thrown out the rule book in a career that’s ranged from “Swingers” and “Go” to “The Bourne Identity” and “Edge of Tomorrow.”   Liman is nothing if not frank about his clashes in the business, including the remarkable story of how “The Bourne Identity” went from surefire flop to phenomenon. The director also delivers some exciting details about the “Edge of Tomorrow” sequel and what it’s like to share a house with Tom Cruise (hint: you’d better bring your A game to your household chores). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Visit McDonald's app for details Download and registration required This week on Happy Sack and Fused, Alexandra Diderio on going from True Detective to Baywatch and Doug Lyman on directing and throwing out the rulebook for The Wall. Hey guys, I'm Josh Horowitz. Welcome to my podcast. Welcome to Baywatch Week. We didn't even practice that, by the way.

We're the Avengers of the Bay. That's right. Sammy joins me as always. Hi. Hey. Yes. So we've been talking about Baywatch for a couple weeks because we, if you listen to the podcast last week, we recounted our adventures in Miami. So, of course, we had to have a cast member on this week.

And it is Alex Didario. Not DeDario. DeDario. Another city kid, like yourself. Another city kid. She is delightful. And it's been fun to talk to her the last month or so. We saw her.

at movie awards in Miami and now had to have her on the podcast to talk about bringing this bizarre, you know, like 80s, 90s kind of kitchy television show to life on the big screen thanks to the work of the great Jwayne, the Rock Johnson. D. The Rock Jail. And Zach Fromm's

She did the red eye to come see you. Just for me. Just for you. Yeah, did you watch Billboard Music Awards last night? I was in the car. Okay, that's okay. I forgive you. I'm sorry. She was presenting alongside our... Did you? I did watch. I mean, I did a lot of You know who anyone was besides Josh Jumel and Alex Dadario?

I did stop on Josh Dumel. I was liberally fast forwarding. I'll put it that way. But I like to be in the no, so I know what the kids are watching. Whenever your friends pop up, you'll pause it. It's my way of keeping in touch with Jumel. Hey, Josh. You look so good, buddy.

And Alex was with another one of our friends, Ansel Elgort. Oh, Anselo. I wonder if he was all right in Vegas without you. Good luck charm. That's right. The last time I saw Ansel was in Vegas. and he was winning. Actually, he was winning big, then he lost a bunch. So, yes, so she did take the red eye, not just for me, but because she is on one of these

ginormous world tours. If you know the name Alex Dadario, maybe can't associate with what you've seen her in, you've probably seen her in perhaps the Percy Jackson films, True Detective Season 1, the amazing season of True Detective, of course, and is now, you know, hitting it big with Baywatch, a big role for her in this one, and she's really good at it, and really, you know, She's like a, yeah, a New York City kid, so we always love those around here and has a bright future ahead of her. And she's very thoughtful about sort of being the odd artsy one in her family. Like her, she comes from like a family of lawyers and sort of being like the one that, like, wanted to pursue the arts and not necessarily being a great student and how weird that was for her growing up and kind of figuring out her way, her place in the universe. And now, sure enough, of course, like everyone in her family's acting.

Oh, yeah, her brother's an actor too. Yeah, he's on Shadowhunters, right? Yeah, yeah. So, yeah. So, and a little bit later in the podcast, we'll talk about this a little later, but if you're a film geek like myself, you know and love the work of Doug Lyman. Of course, Swingers, Edge of Tomorrow, Mr. Mrs. Smith, and has a new film called The Wall, starring Aaron Taylor Johnson and John Sina. And John Sina. You love you, John Sina. You and your wrestling, rest of turned actors. It's really weird. Very odd. Yeah, I'm just waiting for Stone Cold Steve Austin to make it big. Yeah, good luck. We keep waiting. But Doug is, I mean, as I alluded to, he's kind of a rule breaker of a director. He's a really an interesting guy, a guy who doesn't really subscribe to sort of the way films are always made.

And that's partially why I won him on the podcast. He's a guy that always, even in a big budget studio film, finds a way to make it his own. So we'll get into that in a little bit. But for now, let's enjoy some Baywatch talk with Alex Diderio. Did you get it? No, to Daria. I'm J.K. Here she is. Hey, Alex.

Hey. Oh, what did you? I didn't even see you there. Oh, my gosh. I've been here for the whole time. Really? You did actually beat me to the podcast studio today. I feel so guilty.

I don't think we told you this, but we saw you running in and it was raining. It's so upsetting. You were getting your umbrella all situated. Oh, I don't feel good. No, it's okay. And that's usually me. Well, not to mention. And you took the Red Eye last night.

I was watching the Billboard Music Awards. Yes. I was exhausted just like, I was on a plane yesterday, but getting home last night to watch the show. I feel exhausted. Yes. You actually were there. Yes, I was there. And somehow have cross time and space to be here.

Well, the sad thing is that the Billboard Music Awards is so cool. And so I got to watch the first hour of it. And then, you know, I had to get on a plane to come here, a red eye. Right. So I did miss Cher. And I did miss Celine Dion. That was a moment. That was a moment.

I know. But I feel like I should just start pretending that I actually was there since there's photo evidence that I was actually there. But sadly, no. You got to hang with Ansel Elgort, one of our good buddies here. I did. We talked to a lot to Ansel over the years. Yeah. And I was saying I feel like Ansel's like one of the coolest people I've ever met.

You know what I mean? Like he's just cool. He's so wide-eyed. I feel like he makes me feel so old. He's just like an embryo. Nothing really seems to worry him. He just seemed like happy and excited. He's just like a cool.

guy. Because nothing, the world hasn't beaten him down yet, like you and I. Yeah, that's right. He doesn't know the... Just wait till he hits 30. Things will be terrible. You're coming, are you coming to the end of this press store? You must be. I hope so, for your sake. I think I'm sort of in the middle. I mean, it comes out later, a Baywatch comes out later in Europe. Got it. So we have to go to, once we do our New York, sort of talk shows and all that kind of stuff, we go to Berlin and then London. And then I

go home. Okay. And I turn back into a pump. Is this the strangest press tour you've been on? Is this the, like, obviously, Percy, those are big press stores. Yeah, different. But this is big and by nature of the content of it, I would think it's unique. Yeah, and it's definitely the biggest press tour I've been on in some ways. And it's been a very positive experience, you know, I think the press tours I went on for Percy, I was a nervous wreck. I was very young.

They were my first movies. you think a lot about what you're supposed to say. And I still do that, but to a much lesser extent, I think, you know, I'm more grown up now and I feel like a little bit like, okay, I can sort of be more of myself, whereas, you know, I was a bit overwhelming the first couple of times I did something like this. But it's been really positive. I like the people that I work with on this film. and it's just a fun movie to promote because I get to, you know, I was saying earlier,

it's just, it's a raunchy movie, so I get to say, make dick jokes and say ridiculous things and have fun and I'm a little more loose with what I say. Is this your sense of humor, the film and the press surrounding it? Is this your kind of vibe? Yeah, it is quite a bit. You know, that's one of the reasons I did the movie. I read the script in one of the first scenes. in the movie is this scene where one of the characters gets a boner because he's looking at

C.J. Parker, the Pamela Anderson character played by Kelly Roerbach and gets a boner and he falls and gets his dick stuck in a beach chair. And she comes over to try to help him get it out and then Dwayne the Rock Johnson comes out to try to help him get it out too. And it's this just the scene of them being like, all right, buddy, we're going to help you. And he's, I can't describe it as well as it's put on screen but when it goes on and on it's like it's not like a 30 second scene it's like it goes to the point of we're like this poor poor man right and that's why I loved the script I was like this is exactly my sense of humor yeah a 15 minute dick stuck in a chair scene is my kind of thing the dream yeah so I think that this movie is just it's hilarious

and it's ridiculous yeah that's what I that's sort of my sense of humor so um we've talked a few times in the last few weeks for this silliness. I learned that you did grow up in New York City. I did. You're an Upper East Sider as opposed to the mean streets of the Upper West side like me. That's right. You were coddled and I just like had to rough it. That's right.

On Central Park West. That's right. Oh, Central Park West. I was not, okay, to be clear, I wasn't on Central Park West. It was between CPW and Columbus. Okay, okay. That's a whole different story. Yeah.

I mean, come on. Right. But what was your upbringing like? Give me a sense of what's, you're one of three. Yes, I'm the oldest of three. My parents are lawyers. My parents sort of came from.

My mother in particular came from very poor background. Very much sort of education was sort of their way out of where they came from, especially my mother. So they waited until they were a little bit older to have children so they could afford to send us to great schools and give us everything they wanted. They said, you know, we never wanted to be in a situation. where you guys asked for something a lesson or this or that or braces or whatever the case may be and we couldn't give it to you. So they waited until they had the money to sort of send us to private school and give us all these lessons and stuff like that. And so I really had a ton of opportunity as a kid. And acting was one of those things.

It was I went to acting lessons because it was something I wanted to do in acting camp when I was a kid, you know, like 10 years old. and it sort of became this strange thing where education wasn't going to be, you know, college wasn't going to be the way that I became successful. Right. It became apparent early on that I was just not a good student, but it was so ingrained in me that that was what I was supposed to be doing, that it was this very difficult sort of struggle of, okay, who am I, what are my goals? and is acting really what I'm going to do. And in my heart, I believed it was. But in my head, I was like, this is ridiculous. This is not right.

So that was sort of the strange thing about, you know, growing up on the Upper East Side of New York and going to private school where everyone goes to Ivy League schools and just not feeling like that was my path. Right. I remember, you know, I went to a private school on the Upper East side. I went to Dalton. And I was like such, like, an underachiever. was not a good student. Like, I mean, I wasn't idiot. I just didn't, I wasn't good at, I just

didn't attend classes. I wasn't doing anything like exciting when I wasn't going, but I just was like literally like sitting in a corner reading a newspaper. It was very boring. Going to the movies. Yeah, literally. Yeah. And I just remember like in my class, I'm sure it was the same for you. It was like, if you looked at everybody that went to school to college, like everybody went to an Ivy League school. And I was like, I went to Hobart, William Smith, which was a nice little school. But like, it was just a different path and you felt like you're in this like skewed where like everybody is going to be like a senator or a doctor or whatever yes and people were like I got a lot and even from some of my family you know I got a little bit of what are you doing like go

to college like you know a little bit of a little bit of shade from some people for not just you know and I tried I really did try I made a huge effort and I you know I I spread myself a bit too thin actually because I was really following my heart, which was to act, and going on these auditions, sometimes for ridiculous things. Right. And people were like, okay, you're going to, what, fake another seizure in the mud with no bra on for a horror film that never sees the light of day, which is, you know, something, I did ridiculous little parts in these movies. And then I was going to college and then sometimes not going and, you know, sort of failed out of the first one, tried to. community college and was also bartending to make money. And it just, I was like at a certain

point, I just said, I'm going to have to devote myself 100% to one of these things. Otherwise, I'm going to fail at all of them. And you're the oldest. You're the one that's supposed to be overachieving. You're the ones supposed to have this shit not like locked down. Yeah. And I think is the oldest, you know, you always sort of set the, this stage for your younger siblings. Right. My brother's very close to me. So I think the two of us did. My sister's seven years younger than me. So, you know, for us, my brother and myself, everything was very precious. And then by the time my sister came along, I think my parents just realized, okay, life is tough. She's going to be all right. And that's sort of, you know, and I hope that I sort of

implement that in my parenting, although I probably won't because you do tend to worry a lot more about the first born, I think. So when did you stop worrying about yourself and when did your parents stopped worrying about you? Was it with Percy or was it earlier? Percy was a huge thing. That changed a lot. That's what moved me out to L.A. And also, you know, then people saw me in movies.

And they saw me, they would see me on, you know, posters and on TV. And so that sort of validated, like, oh, wow, she's actually. This is real. Right. But it also validated it to myself. I mean, I needed that to know that I wasn't because there's always this seat of doubt, like, are you really going to be an actor? Yeah, you can say you're an actor until like, okay, where's the proof? Right.

And, you know, you get that, you get insecure. And it's a very difficult profession. And a lot of people, even who are very talented, you know, you don't, you can't find the work that pays the bills and that kind of thing. And, you know, I did struggle for a number of years in between jobs. And so it was a huge deal for me as far as, okay, I'm 100%. I threw myself 100% into acting. I booked this job. And now I'm really going to do this for, you know, a long, long time where I'm going to 100% be an actor.

Totally. Which is a scary, crazy thing. But it was incredibly exciting for me because that's really pretty much what I had always wanted to do. We've had Logan on the podcast a couple times. We're slowly working our way through the Percy Jackson cast. That's what the secret, you know, secret rationale for this podcast is. Just look at Pierce Brosnan, if you can put it in a good word. You just let me know, like, what I can do.

So, I mean, that one obviously had such a, like, a pedigree. So the books and Chris Columbus and it was like, it's going to be the next Harry Potter. This is it. Did you, I mean, like, and I'm sure there were different stages of that through those two films of like, this is going to be the thing that's that I'm going to going to be consumed with the next 10 years or maybe it's not or maybe it is or I mean was there kind of a vacillation in terms of like how big a deal it was going to be in your life I think for me coming from I was doing the things I was doing in New York were so no one knew who I had no career so for me Percy Jack you might as well have put me in Harry Potter for me in my world it was

so big that it could have completely failed and still would have been huge for me. So there was no sense of, oh, I'm going to be, you know, Emma Watson and Harry Potter that it was just like, wow, I'm actually in a movie that, and I had no sense of Hollywood or how things worked or what expectations were or I just sort of was going with the, you know, for the first couple of weeks I was on set, I was convinced that I was going to be fine. and that they'd made it terrible. It was this very surreal experience, extremely life-changing. And, you know, I couldn't really think beyond that as far as what was going to happen.

And then once the first movie came out, it did well. You know, I did hope that there'd be a second, and it took a while for there to be a second. So by the time they were like, okay, we're making another movie. I was shocked, but excited. it, but it took longer than I thought. I think it's a good sign. I've had so many actors here that are like literally the top of the game. I had Michael Fastbender in here last week, and he still talks about like he always thinks he's going to be fired.

Like he doesn't know his way. Like he just, you can be literally the world's most celebrated actor. He's arguably is in the top five right now. Well, I remember we had a press conference for Percy Jackson and Pierce Brosnan was there. And they asked him some question. I forget what the question was, but his answer was basically like, you know, I'm just happy to be working. And, you know, I always just want to be working. And I'm like, you're Pierce Brosnan and you still worry about not working.

And that's the thing. You just, as an actor, you just always want to be working and working with cool people. And you want to do great things and you want to tell stories and you want to, you know, make people laugh or make people feel things. And when you're not doing that, you're sitting around waiting for your next chance to be creative. And you have to be self-motivated to find that in your regular life, otherwise you're living off of just your jobs. And that can be a very unhealthy thing where you're just fed by your work. And I definitely am guilty of having that problem on and off and something I have to work on because it's true, I think, of everybody. So in between the jobs now, like what's your mechanism for like finding some self-worth and validation that doesn't come from like being on a set?

Worth and validated. It used to be self. Now it's more just, you just get, you just get bored and. Get in your own head of it. Yeah. And yeah, I think, I think yoga's been a huge thing, weirdly enough. So it's just something else to focus on. You know, you really work on your yoga practice. I have good friends. You know, when I first moved to L.A., I had no friends, really. So I had no one to distract me. Now I have some good friends. And I do a lot of And I take improv classes, groundlings. You still do? Yes, yes. Is that odd like when obviously you've got a pretty good career going and like you You know, I've thought about that, but no one, I mean, the class I've only taken, well, I've tried to take, I keep having, sometimes I'll get a job and then leave the class. But no one's ever, you know, sometimes towards the end of class when we all get to know each other better, people will be like, oh, I really like. you and this or congrats on Baywatch or whatever it is. But it's just a community of actors.

No one's like giving me any special treatment or... They're not slipping the true detective DVD to you silently across the... No, not yet. No. It's a really, I love groundlings. And a lot of the people who go to groundlings are working actors and doing various things. So it's not, it's, it doesn't feel weird to be there. So was when you, you know, for people like me, we chart the course of the career and Like we see like sort of like what the blips are and what the progressions are. And it seems like True Detective is kind of a game changer. Yeah.

Is it fair to say? Did it feel that way for you? Like once that arc happened and that season happened and it changed plays even for Woody and Matthew. It changed their careers and they've been in the game for a while. Yeah. True Detective was completely shocking. That blew me away because that was a role where I really fought for the role. And it wasn't that role.

It was a different role. And they thought I was too old for. it and then they, I kept auditioning and I really fought for it and, um, and they ended up giving me this other role, sight unseen. And they said, but you have to be naked. And I was like, fine. I was like, I want to work with these people so badly. And I was at a point in my career was I was having difficulty getting into rooms even to audition for certain things. I remember they did a Wonder Woman pilot. And I remember I couldn't get into audition for the Wonder Woman pilot. And I just remember thinking that was so ridiculous that I was like, I have to do something.

different because I'm not being taken seriously. Right. I need to do something that I want to work with Carrie Fukunaga. I want to work with Woody Harrelson and Matthew McConaughey because it'll just be on my resume. I'll just put it on there and people will see, oh, look, she works with Carrie Fukunaga. And then I figured in auditions, they'd be like, well, that's pretty impressive. Like, how was that?

Yeah, diversifies the resume a bit. Right, exactly. And not that the things I had done before that were bad. it just, for some reason, I just needed to do something completely different. Right. And when it came out, my managers the next day said that the phone was ringing off the hook. Like, off the hook. And all of a sudden I had all these meetings with all these big producers and I booked San Andreas, I think, like a week or two later.

So it was completely shocking that it made as. big of a difference as it as it did. It really completely changed my career. Um, and I think that's incredibly exciting. And it's also a testament to how great a director Carrie Fuganooga is that having a role like that in, in something that he directed and, um, and just being in something so great and being directed so well, you know, I think really helped. Well, what are the unanticipated negative consequences of something like that were there? Because, I mean, obviously, it did kind of put you in a whole new light in terms of, like, more adult roles coming your way, et cetera, and they're seeing you in a different way.

I honestly can't think of anything negative. I mean, I really can't. It was, look, it was scary to go and get completely naked. I'm not, I've never been, it's strange that to me and sort of amazing that I now play all these sort of sexy roles and I'm known for being very like sexy because I, in my real life, I never really felt that way. I'm actually, especially as a young person, I was pretty uncomfortable with my sexuality. So that's a little bit just, it was a surprise to me, but it was a completely positive thing.

And if anything, people were very complimentary. I mean, people, no one was saying anything mean. They were just like, wow, I love your boobs. I'd love to put them in my face. Like, okay, that's not a mean thing to say. and so it was sort of, it was sort of, it was fine. This is Happy Say I Confused. We'll be right back after this.

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Terms apply. See Capital One.com for details. So San And Grace came almost immediately after you were saying? Yes. So that's where the other fair would join the Rock Johnson began. Yes. Who you were just going to be making films with. It's like Spencer, Tracy. That's right.

Yeah, this is like a new team. The Rock and Alex DeGiro. So are you, is that an actual franchise? Are you going to do another one? Is the San Andreas fault going to break open again? What's going to happen? I think that's the goal. I think that's the goal.

I know that they're, it's public knowledge that they're writing another one. Right. But, you know, there's the whole process of getting it into production, getting it approved, Dwayne's schedule. But I think that it's a big priority for them based on it did very well overseas. Right. and in China and I think that it would be

a very cool movie to go and be part of I have fun making those kinds of movies I'm sure he can fit it in like a even the president has to take a vacation once in a while instead of going to kind of bunkport he can make a Santa Drey sequel instead of playing golf he can go and like on his weekends

shoot San Andreas we can shoot it over the course of a year over weekend it's true or you can just do it like in a green screen in the Rose Garden right there'll be secret service all around as we shoot I'll be you know all the cabinet position. And now you get to get to know Tom Hanks too, apparently. This is so exciting.

Hollywood taking over the White House. You mentioned the Wonder Woman. Your name was in the running for Deska Jones, I remember. That's right. Yes. Have you done that kind of, I mean, superheroes have taken over Hollywood, so invariably it comes often in my conversations with actors and directors. Has that kind of a role come your way a lot? Have you been in a number of these kind of superhero audition kind of things? Sure. I mean, I do now get to audition for... You get in the room now. Pretty much everything. Yeah, which is great. Not everything, but most big things. And sometimes they'll already have someone in mind, so the audition is sort of just a moot point. But I like auditioning a great deal, because it's an opportunity

to go and prove yourself. And even if you don't get the role, I think that if you can go do a good job, then there are people that will see that and think of you for other things. And so I find auditioning to be a very important tool. And it's interesting because the bigger you get and the more you work, your agents will be like, no, no, no, no, you're not auditioning for there. We don't want to. We can try to get you that role without an audition. And I find that to be sort of dangerous because I actually believe very much in auditioning. Do you want to prove it to yourself as much as them or you're just like it feels like? I think it's this I think I have this strange combination of insecurity and confidence.

So I'm very confident that if I prepare properly and I get in the room, I can kick butt in an audition and really be like, look at how great I am. Which you have to have that kind of ridiculous confidence going in because it's such a difficult sort of thing, the audition process. So it's this mentality. And athletes, I think, have this too, which is it's, you have to sort of, you have to believe. that you're going to hit the ball, otherwise you're not going to hit it. Right. You don't want to walk into the room and be like, you guys probably aren't going to want me for this, but I'll read the lines anyway. I mean, if you really want me to, I'm here anyway.

Yeah, and it's something I did for a long time, which I'd go in, I'd be like, I'm not going to get this role, and I'm a shitty actress, and this is terrible, and no one likes me. And then you go in and you're like, huh. And they can tell, and you're not into the audition. And so I go in with this, so I more so want to prove to other people. I have this sort of endless desire to prove to other people that I can do it. Whether or not I get the role, which, you know, more times than not, you don't. Sure. But things lead to other places.

And then sometimes you go in and you have a bad audition and you're like, well, I mess that up. Right. And then you learn how to deal with that and let that go. Is your family still back here in New York? Or do you have? My mother is. And my brother is an actor as well. And he's actually, he's between New York and Toronto, where he shoots his show, Shadowhunters.

Right. And my sister's back here. And she just quit her job to become an actress. There you go. So we're all actors. And my dad's out in California. I'm trying to get everyone to come out to California. Right.

Now, your dad ran here in New York, the anti-terrorism. He was the deputy chief of counterterrorism. Now, should I worry that you moved out to L.A. around the time he was doing that? Do you know something? Should I move out to L.A.? No. Are we going to be okay? I moved out to L.A. way before he got that job. He was actually working in Russia when I moved out to L.A. And then he came back from Russia. And, you know, I'm sure he knows all kinds of things he's never told me. And he had that job. And I mean, he, you know, he doesn't tell. You can't tell people anything, really. But he did, like we did get to, my best friend got engaged. and her fiance said or was about to get and get her fiance said I want to propose basically to my best friend and would you help me go I want to propose in Times Square so my father ran security for Times Square on New Year's Eve so basically was able to get us in directly underneath the ball dropped at you know 1130 and then midnight came around and he got down on one knee and proposed so so as far as my father's job goes that was that was that was the best thing.

what I got out of it. I thought that that was pretty cool. That's pretty good. Yes. So what are you going to do when your downtime coming up? What's on the agenda besides yoga and friends for you? Do you have another job coming up soon or do you get a little break after this? I don't. And I really would like to get back to work as usual. Don't leave her alone with her thoughts. That's right. It's going to be bad. No, I would like to go get a job and find the right thing. You know, I don't want to just work for the sake of working. I would like to find. and something that, you know, seems interesting and different. And I just bought a house, which is crazy. It's actually still an escrow, so I don't even know if I should talk about it. You probably shouldn't until well. Knock on wood. But. You're a full functioning adult.

Yeah, it's terrifying. I'm like, how did I get here? I'm going to have a house. Like, what's next? A baby? Who knows? So I do feel old. I feel old.

I feel mature. That's a better way to put it. I feel like a real adult. Yeah. I mean, as you sat down, we were discussing how many times you were allowed to say the word penis on this podcast. And here we had a very like coherent. Look, I haven't said the word penis once. You want to get it out of your system a few times?

Penis. Penis, penis, penis, penis, penis, penis, penis, penis. Peanus. Everybody should check out Baywatch. If you like penises. There is a penis in the film. There's several. Are there several?

Oh, yeah, there are at least two I can think of. Well, there's a naked one. And then there's some. There's a dead penis. There's some erect penis. Yep. Yes, but they're clothed. Clothed. Right. But I think that that's great.

That's a progress. That's what we call progress. You know, you don't get to see a lot of penises in movies. You get to see a lot of boobs, nipples, occasionally a vagina. Yeah. But not a lot of penises. Very few penises in the new Cars 3. You're not going to get any penises in that one. No, makes me sad.

Yeah. Don't be sad. Baywatch is out there. Yeah, you don't have to be sad because now you can get your fill of penises in Baywatch. I couldn't have put it better myself Alex, get some rest Get another job because again We don't want you just

I don't want you upset I just want you happy Oh no I won't be upset I'll always be happy Okay good I'll see you on the next one And everybody go enjoy Baywatch For join the Rock Johnson fun

Zach Ephron fun Alex the Dario Not Didario I've discovered If you if you meet Alex It is technically Didario What? I think actually

Actually, my brother pronounces it differently than me. I don't know. I've been saying Alexander Adairio my whole life, so that's just how I pronounce it. But I think I've been pronouncing my own last name wrong. Well, that's how that Kate Mara, Kate Mara. Yes. Goes Kate Mara. And Rooney goes Rooney Mara.

Oh, good. So it's not just me. So you've got another fucking weird family, just like the Mara Mara's. Great, perfect. Yeah, we should sort this out. We never convened and figured this out. Maybe over the next Thanksgiving. This is something to talk about and just for a future podcast so you don't like make the host really

But the problem will be like, I'll be like, you guys should say it to Dario. Right. And then they'll be like, no, say it to Dario. And we'll all be, we'll all be too stubborn and we won't want. But you're just, you're the super famous one. You get, you get, this is the clout of celebrity. Okay. You should throw down that.

All right. And lots of relationships. Soup's famous. It's good to see you, Alex, as always. Yes. Thank you so much. Penis, penis, penis. Penis, penis.

That was Alex Dadario, starring in Baywatch. Check it out this week. You won't be able to miss it. It's the action comedy over the summer, at least until the next big action comedy comes. It's summer. There's huge movies every week. There's another movie that's not necessarily huge, but it is intense and it's a really quality thriller. It's called The Wall. It's out in theaters right now. And it comes from the amazing mind that is Doug Lyman's. Doug Lyman is a filmmaker. I've tracked throughout his career. his first big film, his first real film was Swingers. And then he went on to make go, Mr. Mrs. Smith, Edge of Tomorrow, Jumper. He's kind of had this very eclectic, interesting career and always has, of course, the born identity. I was going to say, what about, yeah. This is what happens when you talk without looking at notes. But he's, you know, action directors, thriller directors, Hollywood kind of quote unquote Hollywood film directors kind of, there's a sameness to them.

and he really just rebells against that and is he breaks the mold he does i mean it's a cliche but it's true and um and i love talking to him and i've talked to him for many years he was in my my uh historic book that sold 15 copies a decade ago um and uh so i've talked to him for for many years and i've always appreciated his frankness um and uh he's a he's just a good interview and there's a lot of good stuff in this one including if you're a fan of edge of tomorrow Stay tuned for some cool details on his upcoming planned sequel to the film. Yeah, so I'm really psyched about that because that was such a great film with Tom Cruise and Emily Blunt, of course. And he's also going to probably be directing if all goes according to plan this movie called Justice League Dark, which is a big DC movie.

So a lot of news in this one and also just sort of interesting backstory on the born identity, et cetera. Oh, I want to hear that. There's some good stuff in this one. I'm going to listen to this. Oh, gee, thanks, Sammy. Not just listen to the intro with you No, I always fast forward The intro, don't worry

You don't listen to yourself? No Yeah, I do that too I skip by it I listen to listen to the interview So shrill, I'm sorry I like to I like to

Because I also have to like You know I'll write the summary too So I have to I have to endure my horrible voice It's like this self It's like You punish yourself

Yeah So enjoy this conversation With Doug Lyman And as I said He's a unique one And enjoy his new film The Wall It's a it's a taught

thriller, a very... With two of our faves. Two of our faves. One of your ultimate faves, John Sina and Aaron Taylor Johnson, in kind of this like sniper situation in Iraq and getting some really good reviews for it. So check it out and I hope you guys enjoy this chat. We're off and running with Mr. Doug Lyman, director of the wall. It's good to see you, Doug. Hi, nice to see you, too.

Thanks for coming in. So congratulations in the new film. I mean, I'm such a fan of all your work, and it's always exciting to see sort of what you have in store for the audience because you're nothing, if not, an unpredictable filmmaker. And I mean that in the best possible way in terms of genre, in terms of the choices and risks you take, and the wall is certainly, you know, I don't know, if there were a Hollywood director handbook is not maybe the film that they say you do after Edge of Tomorrow, if you do 100 million dollar movies.

Can you give me a sense of sort of like, are the reasons of doing something like this the same as doing the, you know, the Mr. Mrs. Smith's and the edge of tomorrows of the world? Yeah, I mean, my criteria, like, there's no like, you know, career management, you know, there's no 10-year career plan or any of that. There's just what movie do I want to make? What story do I want to tell? And there's not a lot of math to it. I usually find myself, if I'm telling the story to my friends at the,

at a, you know, dinner party. And I'm like, if I just keep finding myself talking about the movie. That means you're interested enough. That means I maybe, instead of telling the story, you know, one person at a time or five people at a time, I want to put it into a movie so I can, you know, not have to keep retelling it. So it really, you know, I think there's other directors out there, you know, like the Michael Bays, who just do nothing but giant movies.

And then they come along and they make like a small movie. And you're like, okay, that's a really conscious decision. Right. But, you know, you'd be hard pressed to find any kind of pattern within my career. It's more like a Rorschach thing. You know, it's just some are big, some are smaller. You know, there's no rhyme or reason other than their stories I want to tell. And so what do the people that work around you, you know, representation and that kind of thing?

By now, do they, like, how do they know what to send you? because it is kind of scattershot in the best possible way. Do you tell them like, you know, I'm feeling like a particular genre or anything? Or do you just say, send me what's good?

I usually just say send me what's good. I mean, the case of the wall, it was a script I was being sent to look at the writer for another project. You know, I was going to,

you read scripts, the writing sample. And they said, you should read the script. Amazon had this contest. This guy's in China. He's an American, but he's living in China

teaching English. He wrote, this script he sent it in and won the contest it's now on the black list people love this script so i was like okay i'll read the wall because maybe i'll want to work with this writer right and then i just couldn't put the script down because sometimes i only read like 20 pages and i'm like okay this guy knows how to write and i'm busy and so i that's enough for me to say okay i'll take a meeting and then i pretend like i read the rest of it uh and it's amazing uh yeah and hopefully they don't ask too many specific questions got to go to the bathroom when you got um but i'm pretty

used to sort of jumping into situations where I'm a little bit, you know, you know, having to catch up and figure it out. Think of my feet. So I just, you know, it was such a page turner. It was such a, you know, it's like in the best possible way of a thriller, just could not put it down. And also, I cared so much about the characters, you know, who were in the movie, are played by John Cena and Aaron Taylor Johnson.

But, you know, when you're reading a script, they're just characters on a page. And, you know, one of the issues I tend to have, uh, in the movie. And a lot of the screenplays I'm sent is, you know, you're not rooting for the characters. And with Dwayne Worrell's script of the wall, I found myself immediately rooting for these guys. Like on page two, I was rooting for them. And I never stopped rooting for them. And I couldn't put it down. And I was like, and they're like, you know, what do you think of this writer?

And I was like, well, what about the script? And that was a situation where they're like, I was like, who's directing the wall? And I expect them to say, like, oh, it's, you know, David, airs directing it or will smiths directing it who knows you know yeah yeah and they were like uh no one's directing it right now and they're like why would you be interested and they just you know no one no even thought no one even thought yeah yeah they were like it's because not because of the scale of it but because you know it's a war movie it's it's it's just not like any other movie i've made uh and so you know because i'm i very much look for humor in every situation you found

the one situation where there's very little humor. It's really hard to find humor. When you're pinned down by an Iraqi sniper and you're wounded and your partners near death, it gets a little trickier to find the humor. It also must just excite you from a filmmaking standpoint in terms of being a test of your skills and how to, I mean, obviously the script is compelling, as you say, you kind of fall, you know, you relate to these characters, you put yourself in these situations. but in terms of how to how to capture the action and make it dynamic and make it feel riveting and intense for 90 plus minutes.

Did it feel like a unique challenge in that way? And is that part of the fun for you? I mean, I only tackle films that are challenges to me. You know, Tom Cruise said to me, if you're not afraid when you go to work, it's probably time to change professions. Right. speaking about you know making movies and uh for sure the wall was was terrifying as a as an endeavor because uh i have a really short attention span and i deal with that in my movies by having lots of characters and lots of situations and quick cutting and you know you never have

to stay in anyone's situation too long and in the case of the wall where you have two american soldiers pinned down, you know, in one spot, I'm taken away all of these sort of little distractions that I've used in my other movies. But it's still me. I still have the same short attention span. So I'm like, how do I make a movie that I would enjoy, that I would be riveted by and not, you know, I don't believe in the kind of, you know, challenge for challenge sake. because the audiences don't care about that. They're not grading you on a curve. They're not saying.

Exactly, yeah, they don't grade you on a curve. Like, the movies all cost the same amount of money to go. They all take the same amount of time. You know, you're choosing to go see a movie because you want to be entertained and be thought-provoked. And, you know, that's the only thing the audience cares about. So I really, in fact, the original script was very much more focused just on Aaron Taylor-Johnson's one character. And I said, you know, I could see a filmmaker being like, oh, look, I'm going to make a one actor movie. And I was like, audiences, like, it's so masturbatory.

Like, you know, the audiences really care about that. Oh, look, he made a movie with one arm tied behind his back. Right. It's like, no, they want both my arms out there. They want me firing on all cylinders. They want me using every resource I have to make the most exciting, entertaining film I could make. So the first thing I did when I started working on the wall was to, to really augment the second soldier,

who's now played by John Sina, and then I cast a giant star with huge movie star presence. It's John Sina's first time in a dramatic role, and it clearly won't be his last time. And so, because that buddy camaraderie was so important to me, because it's so true to the experience of soldiers in the field, because I like humor in my movies, And, you know, it was going to be the only shot at finding humor in the wall is going to be while.

Through that camaraderie in the first few minutes. And because I didn't want this in any way, I kind of wanted to kill any chance of it being considered one of those. The gimmicky kind of gimmicky movies. Yeah, vanity thing where you were like, oh, look what Doug accomplished with one actor. It was like, was not interested in that at all. So I wanted to sort of take that off the table right from the beginning. me like, no, this, the wall has to compete on a level playing field with every other movie out there.

Totally. Since we have some time, if you'll indulge me, let's go back a little ways. We've talked a bunch of times over the years, and I know you're a born and bred New Yorker like myself. So what was your childhood movie theater? What was your family as passionate about films as you were growing up? You know, I did not grow up in a film family. My father was a lawyer.

My mom is an artist. My grandmother was an artist. So there were some artists in the family. But, you know, my early memories were a film where my brother taking me to Woody Allen double features. Nice. And, you know, I don't, you know, my filmography of, you know, kind of the films I was raised on, you know, I just, I'm not going to sound as impressive as, say, Quentin Tarantino. Because, like, the films that influenced me growing up were, you know, Superman, Spielberg films, Lucas films, you know, just these, the big screen and big entertainment. And I was like, that's what I want to make.

Yeah, you weren't diving into obscure Asian cinema at a 14 years old. You were. No, and I had comic book characters painted on the walls in my room. I actually had a movie. You know, I've been making movies since I was 18. So I actually had a movie screen that my mom painted on the wall of my room when I was, you know, what, second grade, third grade. And it was held up by cartoon characters. So, you know, I was, you know, and I never, from that point on, you know, from I guess about the time I was eight onward, I always had a movie screen in my bedroom.

Right. Is there, what movie do you think you've seen? seen more than any other in your lifetime dating back to childhood. Is there one that you just saw it on a loop as much as you could as a kid? I mean, again, this is why, like, I'm, you know, I'm going to be your least impressive, least authorish directorial, uh, uh, director. Revenge of the nerds. Uh, you know, that might even be an improvement. I'd say fast times at Ridgemont High. Hey, come on. Cameron Crow, Amy Heckerling. That's pretty good. It's just, it's not Alfred Hitchcock's notorious.

You know, it's, it's, it's, there was time for that later. You know, it's a teenage sex comedy. And honestly, you know, I, I knew that movie by heart. Yeah. That's the one genre you haven't gone into, the teenage sex comedy. That is true. No, but, you know, it's not because I wouldn't do it. And I created a TV series called The O.C.

And that actually had a fair amount of sex in it. Yeah, yeah. It was actually pretty awkward for me as a director. you know, so to direct all these, you know, teenagers, you know, to do these sexual acts. And it was like, it was very, very uncomfortable. I can imagine. So, I mean, you referenced that, yeah, for those that don't know, your dad was a very, you know, notable attorney, a big part of the Iran-Contra hearings. How old were you when Iran-Contra was going on?

I was in college. I was about 20 when Iran-Contra was happening. So what was your perspective on it? Were you, I mean, I just give me a sense of me. I mean, I was, you know, so my father was the chief counsel to the Senate, and he was, it was the first and last time ever in this country's history where both the Republicans and the Democrats had the same chief counsel. That's how well they got along in that particular Senate. Wow. That, you know, it's just unimaginable today.

Yeah, you're talking about another world, science fiction, basically. But it was sort of uncommon back then, too. But my dad was that kind of person who brought people together. And he ran the investigation into the Iran-Contra affair, which is when Reagan created a secret CIA. I mean, the reality of Iran-Contra is, you know, it sounds like a movie plot. But he created a second CIA that was secretly funded by offshore money by armed sales to Iran, which was our enemy. with him. I mean, they had had our hostages not that long before. And with his offshore money and this secret CIA, he could do whatever he wanted and he was doing things with it that were

prohibited by U.S. law. So Congress had forbidden any support of the rebels in Nicaragua, which was communist controlled at the time. And so he used his secret CIA, which was run by a guy named Oliver North to fight this war anyhow. And then the whole thing went tits up when a plain load of guns crashed into Nicaragua. And my father led the investigation into that. So I really had a front row seat on how things really work in our government, the humor of many of the situations, and also the kind of mechanics of what really happens in the CIA and ultimately I brought that level of detail when I made the board identity sure well like the born identity is a retelling of Iran contract I was going to say so was there ever a thought

or a script that you consider developing that was more directly like an overtly a telling of that time period uh well I mean born identity very much Chris Cooper is playing Oliver North and sure Salas's phone hall it's I buried it a little too much but it is there and there's There's a lot of, not the sequels, because they're just kind of a chase, but the original film, if you go back to it, it's loaded with politics, but not in, in the same way, there's politics in the wall, but it's, it's in service of story. Right. It's not in service of me having a particular agenda.

I just think some of these, some of these political stories are interesting, and they create great characters in compromising situations, and that makes for good storytelling, in good movies. So, and then I actually am making a film right now that comes out. Yeah, in September, American Made with Tom Cruise,

which, where he plays a pilot flying for the CIA, flying for Ronald Reagan, flying guns to these rebels in Nicaragua. Oh, wow. So I'm actually, I'm making kind of the, it's the start of Iran Contra.

Right. And it's the contra part of Iran Contra. But in fact, that was a script that was again a spec script that was sent to me by written by Gary Spinelli and it's

I love the story and then I got to like the last 10 pages of the script and suddenly Oliver North shows up in the script and I'm like I didn't even realize even having lived through Iran Contra I didn't realize the story I was following

was the precursor until the last 10 minutes of the script and I'm like oh this is this is Iran Contra I just was seeing it from the point of view of a pilot flying for the CIA. Totally. It's interesting. I mean, you mentioned Bourne, which was obviously a huge moment for you and for the genre, the action genre and the spy genre, whatever you want to call it.

Was it a bigger leap for you, do you feel as a filmmaker going from swingers to go or from go to born? Clearly, the bigger leap is from go to board. Yeah, just in terms of studio. In the scale. I mean, Go was an independent movie again. It was a small movie. And, you know, Go is sort of, it was an independent movie, but it already, Sony was releasing it. They bought the film while we were, while we were in prep.

It lost its financing, and Sony came in and rescued the movie. But it was like a $3 million movie. But I sort of cut my teeth in terms of fighting back on the studio because they were trying to impose all sorts of ideas on the movie that I just didn't agree with. And I also had a very rebellious editor who they would call him up behind my back to try to get him to make changes to the movie. Was he on your side? And he would, he's sort of a no-one's side. He's, I mean, he's doing his own cut of the movie. He's a brilliant editor.

He's a brilliant, brilliant editor. He's a brilliant person, Steve Marioni. But he would actually record, these people would call him, and unbeknownst to them, he would record them as they would be like, don't tell Doug, but would you make these changes. And then when we would screen the movie, you know, because then we'd work on the movie and a few weeks later we'd screen it for our executives at Sony again at a screen room in the Sony lot. And at the end of the movie where the credits come up and normally there'd be music, it would suddenly be a montage of all these audio clips of all these executives stabbing me in the back. And that didn't, they did it again. Like it happened more than once. You think they learned their studio executives, what do you expect?

But I really sort of cut my teeth in terms of, especially you're making a film like Go, that's such a rebellious movie. You're like, of course you're not going to. Can't roll over to the studio. Yeah. And I sort of brought some of that spirit with me when I went to make the born identity, which was, you know, I went from $3 million to, you know, 50-some-odd million dollar budget. Yeah. And the first person that gets hired, you know, on a studio film because it's, you know, I put the born identity together myself. I didn't have a producer.

I was the producer. I got the rights to the book from Robert Ludlam myself. I hired myself as director and I sold the project to Universal and I hired Blake Heron to write the first draft. I hired Tony Gilroy to write the second draft. I convinced Matt Damon to be in the movie.

There's no producers. So once the film was greenlit, they're like, okay, we need to, you need some people to help you make the movie. And the first person they hired was what's called a line producer. That person's in charge of the budget. And I've got a budget that's now 20 times larger than the movie I just made.

And the first thing this line producer is doing is telling me all the things we can't afford to do. And I kept saying, like, I don't understand. I did that on Swingers. I made that movie for $200,000. We have $50 million. What do you mean we can't afford to do that? He's like, Swingers look like shit. He's like, let me tell you how he did it on Under Siege 2.

I'm seriously not exaggerating. And I'm like, Dark Territory? Yeah, let's see how they did it on that. I was like, the gold standard. I was like, that's how you make a movie. I'm like, well, you know, and again, I'm not, it's easier for me a little more confident about myself now, but you've got to imagine me as a 30-year-old filmmaker

in the studio system, like, you know, with all these people who have made 20 movies and know what they're doing. This is how we make an action movie. And this is how you do it. You know, I sound more confident now, but I was like, you know, so I was timidly trying to say like, well, I think more people like swingers

than like undersea. too. It's like, swingers look like shit. And he would try to cut me off of my knee and I eventually started joking that we couldn't afford a line producer on swingers. Like we couldn't afford the person who tells you what you can't do. So we just did whatever we wanted to do. And so sort of from the beginning, there was a sense of antagonism on the set between sort of me and the studio. And this line producer was friends with the head of production for the studio. It was like their sort of their person to quote unquote control me. And I don't like being controlled.

Was Matt always the first choice? Who was the first actor you went to for Borg? No, I went to Brad Pitt. Yeah. And Brad Pitt signed on. And then, I don't know, a few months out, Tony Scott convinced him to be in Spy Game. So he bailed on me.

Got up. And then I had great casting director, Joseph Middleton. And he said, what about Matt Damon? Matt had just been in Ripley. talented Mr. Ripley. Sure. You know, where he plays kind of a

sociopath. Yeah. Yeah, that's my spy hero. Sure. And, but I was like, oh my, I don't know about that.

He's like, that green thong. It's like, that's not my vision of Jason Bourne, but, but I went back and looked at Goodwell hunting

and saw there was something in Matt's eyes. And I was like, you know, there's something with this guy. Yeah. So I convinced Matt to be in the movie.

And, um, you know i've sort of had and then when the film was all done brad actually came to the premiere and the premiere was was one of the worst experiences in my life why what happened because the the studio hated the movie i mean hey everybody hated the movie it's no one to siege two dog i'm sorry honestly the the screenwriter you know so the second screenwriter really wrote the whole movie tony tony go right um in the first time and only time in the history of the Writers Guild arbitrated about himself to not get sole credit. The Writers Guild awarded him

sole credit because we rewrote the whole script together. We threw away Blake's script. Blake's script was very true to the novel. And I was like, you know, that's not going to work. And I was like, let's start over. I was like, let's work from my RAN Contra. Right. And just start over from scratch from my own personal stories. And that's what Tony and I did. So it was all his script. And Tony went to the Writers Guild and said, I don't want to have sole credit. I mean, people were running from the thing like a sinking ship. So I already had that experience going into the premiere. And then at the premiere, when the film ended, I looked over and my sister was asleep,

you know, she's in my row with me. And my girlfriend, who's right next to me, turned to me and said, it's not what I expected it to be. And I was like, oh, my God, my career's over. Were you happy with it before the lights went up? Did you think that? No, because, I mean, they had sort of convinced me that they were like it's going to be a disaster. it up you they're like this is not how action movies are made you you and this doesn't look

like other action movies and you we told you not to make it this way and uh and then the first piece of good news i got was brad pitt was happened to be at that premiere and he came up to me and said i made a mistake i should have been in your movie uh and that started me that was like and then obviously the film went on to be a big hit right um and not that long after that brad pitt sent me the script to mr mrs smith sure and said do you want to go make this movie So what's your relationship with the franchise going for? Obviously, Greengrass did a hell of a job, especially on two and three. I think most would agree.

Are you, like, active as a producer? I mean, do you have kind of mixed feelings in terms of Paul gets a lot of credit? You get a lot of credit. But it feels a little muddled sometimes on who the, you know, who should get the credit, I feel like, born. I mean, there's a lot to go around, I would think. Well, it's, you know, I think born identity, you know, is entirely my film. And then everything beyond that, Paul really deserves a huge amount of credit because there's a lot of people, you know, involved in this franchise. I mean, I talked about the line producer who's a nightmare, but, you know, that pretty much everybody who got involved would all be cautionary tales of, you know, you go to Hollywood, you know, with a movie under your arm and you go sell it to a studio of the kind of sharks that circle.

right um and who really have it in for you um and paul paul stepped into an impossible situation where uh you know um tony gilroy was screaming at him that you know everybody's laughing at you everybody's laughing at you you're making a fool of yourself you know and you got a sort of you know paul was had was new to the studio system yeah that was also a similar kind of spot you were in for yeah and you know you know nothing to rely on. And you got people like Tony attacking him. You got this line producer screaming at him that he's worse than me. So Paul and I actually became really close because, you know, there's just no one else on the planet that's been through that experience. Yeah, you're a unique

small club. I mean, it's a small, it's like, it's like, it's a great club, you know, and it's an amazing franchise. You know, working with Matt Damon is, you know, an extraordinary experience, but, you know, and I always feel bad with, you know, bitching about, you know, these characters because you're like, these sound like, you know, pretty rich problems to have. Sure, sure. But I have to tell you, they, when you're in the trenches and, you know, a season screenwriter screaming at you that everybody's laughing at you, a lot of people would have quit. It's a real testament to Paul that he's stated.

in there you know and eventually fired tony right and and made a great movie out of two and three did you end of seeing or were you involved at all in tony's film on the uh spinoff kind of thing no you know it's uh um and i i really and i you know to be honest i i didn't want to participate at all in in the last movie yeah um it wasn't uh they went a little one too far for your sake for no i mean i'm all for like reinventing the genre but I was like it's I was like what's new here and and it was a little to be honest a little sad to me because you know and this is very personal but you know when I was making go I really had a feeling like I'm making my last rebellious movie this will be my last kind of like youthful rebellious movie yeah

you know because I got to grow up and when I was making born identity with Matt I was like you know we're making you know i don't know matt old matt was you're making movie 30 it's like you know my age he was like you uh i was like we're we're not making the aging acting action hero you know trying to relive his past glory yeah you know matt is actually

physically in his prime yeah and we would make fun of all those other action movies out there and make fun of of all those sort of aging action stars trying to hang on to their youth i'm too old for the shit genre of the yeah we're like we're we were the you know the antidote to that totally and then suddenly i look at jason born and i'm like oh no we've become the thing we were making fun of yeah and i don't know that's not that's not what born is and that's not what you set out to do in the first place i'm just always you know it's very

personal some people might be like great i've become the thing i was making fun of and i was making fun of you know these billion dollar franchises and now i have one so you know you could you could at it the other way, but maybe when I, because I was making swingers and the film came out, we're a teeny little movie, but Time Magazine did a review, and it was like, we had just one little column,

but it was a rave review, and there was some huge movie, like Minority Report that was, no, not Minority Report. I don't know what was coming out opposite Swingers, but some, and it had like the whole rest of the page with a giant picture, and it was like an F.

And we were given like an A, And I was looking at that page And I was like, you know, one day I'm going to be on the other side of the page And I'm going to be doing the big movie That gets the F And it's that That moment sort of stuck with me

And so maybe that's, I was reading some of that Into like, oh no, we've become the other thing. You're listening to Happy, Sad, Confused. We'll be right back after this. I want to, I mean, we don't have time to go detailed into every single one, but I do want to talk a bit about Edge of Tomorrow. Also, in respect to, you mentioned Tom, in some ways it surprises me. I think it's great that you guys clearly get along as well as you do. But like, everything I know about you and talking to actors that work with you is it's kind of like, you know.

The opposite of Tom Cruise? Yeah, he seems like a very meticulous, precise actor. And you see, and I mean, this is a compliment, you kind of, you create a great chaos and you kind of embrace. kind of unpredictability and fluidity on a set and and and it works for you and tom doesn't seem like that to me i mean am i getting something wrong i mean i mean you know we we made american made which comes out this fall we we actually shared a house together and and it was you know it was like the odd couple because he's super meticulous and he also eats like nothing but greens and seeds and we end up having to have two refrigerators for and because i'm like all about frozen pizzas and

You know, it's... You guys must... This should have been a reality show. You missed an opportunity here. You know, because he's Tom Cruise and we're shooting in Atlanta, you know, they can't just have any housekeeper in the house. Right. And the person has to, you know, because they're worried the person's going to work for TMZ

or something. And they couldn't find somebody who could pass muster. So Tom and I had to clean the house ourselves. And the screenwriter was also living with us. And we had a chore chart and there was a lot of bitching about whose dishes were in the sink. and Tom would really, you know, I would clean stuff and he would pull it out of the dishwasher and be like, that's not clean enough and you've got to clean it again.

But I think that, you know, that kind of camaraderie and that kind of such a difference in outlook on the world, I think is something that breathes a lot of life into Tom's performances in the movies we do together. And I think he really kind of enjoys that contrast because I don't, I drag him into situations, you know, that he has no business going to as Tom Cruise. I'll be like, hey, we're going to my friend's apartment in Soho. And he's like, is there a secret back entrance? I'm like, no, there's no secret back entrance. It's a loft building.

You want to climb up the fire escape, but don't mention that to me. He might do it. I was like, you know, there's, no, this is, you're in my world. And like, in my world, there's no secret back doors for movie stars. So I'm very excited that you're going to continue this relationship because I think if everything aligns, you're going to do the edge of tomorrow. We are going to, we have a great idea for the sequel. So is it amazing? Is it a sequel? Is it a prequel? What is this?

It's a sequel that's a prequel. It really is. And when you, when you see it, you'll be like, I get exactly what he meant by that. What are you trying to avoid? Because you have, you've never done a sequel, right? Unless I'm forgetting something. No. So what are the traps of sequels that you're trying to avoid without?

giving away too much like what's what what makes this work you think that is going to make people sit up and take notice that this is a a change in how sequels are done i think what people tend to do with sequels is they just make them bigger right and i'm like no a sequel should be smaller like you did the first film was sort of the ad campaign for the sequel right so fall in love with these characters and now now you you don't need as much action and you don't you know like and in the case of edger's more people obviously love the comedy and they love the situation and And it's like, so we can do way more focused on Tom's character and Emily Blunt's character. And there's a third character in the sequel that's, you know, is going to for sure steal the movie.

And, you know, it's, we can focus on that because we have the first movie as the sort of, that'll get people in the theater. I don't need, I don't need an action sequence every two minutes. And people usually think the other way about, well, a lot of times you just don't know to me story left for the sequel. Right. I mean, obviously in the Bourne franchise, like we're sort of down to like Jason Warden's running

and people are chasing him. There's just no story left. And so you better have great action. You know, we really, I really see this as it's a two-movie franchise. There's just, there's the completion of the story we set up in the first movie. Yeah. And in the relationship between Tom Cruise and Emily Blunt,

as you remember at the end of the first movie she doesn't know who he is and that's going to launch us in an amazing new direction can you say does it pick up literally right where it left off it does actually pick up right where we left off but it doesn't keep going forward because we screw at time

because the alien screw at time I can't wait I'm so excited about it have you thought of new ways to murder Tom Cruise you can't do we do because we're because it's mostly not on the battlefield field. So there's a whole new arena of fights we're going to do using a lot of the technology, but also because it is a prequel, it's a lot of the precursor stuff. And I'm really interested

in the details of that. I mean, that's kind of the wall is sort of a payoff of my interest in getting drama out of details. Like, you know, it's very interested in the minutia. Like the batteries, do they run out on these suits? I mean, they must have batteries, you know, He gets stuck with the thing, the menu, and the wrong language, which sometimes, I don't if you've ever done that on your TV or something, you can't get it back. And, you know, just the reality of, you know, that menu's stuck in the wrong language when you're in the middle of a battlefield and aliens are all around you and you've got to get the suit working again.

That detail gives you drama and excitement. And humor. And humor. And so I was really interested in that in terms of the wall, because that's all I have really are little details like that. Yeah. Yeah. And so the sequel, I'm creating an environment where I get to have even more of those details.

Nice. So are you juggling about obviously doing press for the wall now? It sounds like your head's very much in live, die, repeat, and repeat. Is that what we're calling it? Justice League, Dark, is that something? Is there a script done on that? Or is that still kind of in development? Still in development, but we have an amazing, amazing idea.

Yeah. I mean, part of the problem now is, you know, it's an embarrassment of riches. I have all these different projects I want to do. and there's only one of me and they really are intensive. You know, it's producers, you know, I feel like, you know, probably because they have directors that they delegate to, you know,

can do multiple projects, but really as a director, you know, if you want to make something great, you've got to put everything into it. And so I just wish, I mean, I'm already sort of compromising sleep and everything else in my life to try to, you know, because I'm just so excited to tell these stories. But it must also be exciting.

I know you were attached to the gambit for a bit. You've never done kind of like, I mean, you've kind of like, in some ways you could call some of the characters you've dealt with superheroes, but like a full-on kind of superhero film. You know, you talk about growing up with Superman the movie, et cetera, getting a chance to play with some of those iconic characters, whether it's, you know, swamp things, et cetera. That's intriguing. Yeah, but you could imagine that, you know, people don't come to me to do sort of the traditional version of one of these movies. I wouldn't expect it. Does it take place within the D.C. universe, like the, like the Man of Steel and Batman films, or is it its own thing? It's its own thing.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm curious, like, as a consumer, because, you know, you've talked about, and it doesn't surprise me. Like, and I've talked about this on this podcast with others, like, I grew up with these same kind of films you talk about. But, like, I kind of lament the sameness of blockbusters that I see now. And part of that comes from, I guess, just how they're made, from the studios, from the budgets, from the budget. I don't even know. You probably have better theories than me.

Do you see hope in sight for blockbusters? Do you think we're going down a dark road where they're just going to get more and more similar and lifeless? Give me hope, Doug. No, because there's always filmmakers who come along and just shake it up and, you know, and it's hard to do. You know, the system wants to push you into convention. And of my experience, I'm born identity, you know, I'm sure I've been replicated countless times on other sets and you know the system you know because the familiar feels safe and it's worked in the past why wouldn't you do it again so you sort of all the forces push filmmakers towards the very

you know kind of phenomenon of cookie cutter blockbuster that you you are lamenting but occasionally there's filmmakers who come along whether it's directors or producers who who say no that yeah are there are there are recent examples you can point to that got you in reinspired you that said this is a unique voice that's doing something within the framework of the quote-unquote system um yeah i think that uh deadpool is um even uh um the the new wolverine film you know you know is you know it's a very personal small story you know and you figure oh it's the culmination of wolverine it's going to be you know you know know, the biggest and the most action. And that's an example of a sequel where they use

the whole franchise to then tell them, to get the audiences in and then tell a smaller, more meaningful story. Yeah. I remember throughout the years, there have been a couple like space related projects that you've been developed. Yeah, I'm very, I'm very obsessed with going into outer space. So is there one at this point that you're, you're eyeing? Do you literally want to go into, do you want to shoot in outer space? Like, what's, is this again, just date back to, you know, getting the space shuttle go up, et cetera, or was it? I'm just like, where's the future in terms of space travel? Like, why do I have to, why do I got to go to movies to see the future and see us going to outer space?

Like, we were, you know, people don't even realize, you know, that, you know, we walked on the moon in 1969. Like, probably most people listening to this cast won't, won't know that. And they certainly won't know that, like, we're the only country that sent people to the moon. Like, people, it's so far ago now, so long ago. And it's like, why can't we go back into space? and why aren't we exploring? You know, we're done exploring every nook and cranny of this planet. There's a whole universe out there.

So I'm really obsessed with like, when does the future begin? Like I had that experience a little bit driving a Tesla when it went into autonomous mode. I'm like, oh, my God, I'm in the future. Like, it's driving itself. Yeah. When did that happen? So I'm, you know, because we're not ready to kind of do that with real space technology. You know, we're not really ready to send people into space.

I mean, we send him into orbit, but that's nothing. Like, I'm talking about, like, deep space, going to another planet, going to, you know, going to the moon of, you know, going to one of these other moons and looking for life and camping out on the ice. Like, that just seems like the ultimate adventure. And trying to, you know, the next closest thing

to actually doing it is, you know, bring the kind of realism to a journey like that, you know, I brought to say Jason Bourne being chased across Europe or, you know, two soldiers pinned down in Iraq and the wall. So would you want to, explore something that looks like kind of optimistically towards the future of what we're maybe not doing in reality and kind of capturing that or kind of capturing something of the grandeur of Neal Armstrong in the past which now as you know no no in the future you'd got you want to go

to the future and kind of show what that can be and what could but I'm I'm very interested that that to go into the future you got to go to museums right if you want to see what a spaceship looks like yeah yeah land on another planet it's not in a laboratory it's sitting on the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum right And what about, you know, you've dealt in fair game and, you know, talking about born. You've obviously dealt with things that dovetail with politics and considering the environment you grew up in. Does the current world we live in inspire creative projects, or does it make you want to kind of go in the opposite direction towards space, towards edge of tomorrow land, et cetera? You know, there's no question, you know, that movies provide a form of a sense.

escape from, you know, the day-to-day things that are going on, which are, you know, not easy for a lot of people to deal with right now. But, you know, in the same way that I'm interested in the wall in terms of let's forget about the politics and let's just, you know, there's soldiers fighting every day. Totally. And there's soldiers giving up their lives every week. You know, we don't, we don't, it doesn't make the news anymore, right? Because you got to get through 40 pages of coverage on Trump or, you know, and it never makes it to a TV broadcast before you get to, you know, who was killed this week in combat. But there's soldiers dying every week in combat. And, you know, I was very interested in the wall of telling the

story of two of these soldiers who are, you know, fighting for their lives and fighting for survival as a way of saying, you know, it's, it's independent of politics. It's taking place in Iraq. Right. So there is a version of being very political. about that, but the wall isn't political because it doesn't, the characters don't have the luxury of being political. They're not in a coffee shop in New York. They're in the desert, in Iraq and an oil field pinned down by a vicious Iraqi sniper. So, you know, who has, they just don't have the luxury in that situation to talk about the view from 30,000 feet up. They're ground level. And so the wall, in a way, is a sense of escapism of like, let's look at some of the positive things.

things, you know, and I feel like ever since making the wall, I just, I don't look at a soldier the same way. I'm sure. Yeah. And, you know, you sometimes see them in the, you know, guarding some of the things in New York City. And, you know, you see International Guard and Fleet Week or, you know, we showed the film a few weeks ago to 200 soldiers. And that was, you know, incredibly meaningful to me. And I spent time after that, you know, talking to as many of them as I could. means. So I do hope that people come out of the wall and they maybe stop thinking about Washington for a moment and think about the people are actually out there fighting. Yeah. Well, congratulations on this one. I mean, it's another stellar piece of work. You get some great performances, as you said, from Aaron and John, who knew John. I mean, he was... John's seen it. Yeah, it's incredible. And I always look forward to seeing what you do because you always bring... I love how unpredictable and cool your career has been and I always look forward to what's coming next. And I'm thrilled that

you're going to go back to edge of tomorrow because everything you've said about that sounds bananas and insane in the best possible way. It's good to see as always, Doug. Thanks. Cool. We did it. Nice, sir. And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressure to do this by Josh. This episode of Happy, Sad, Confused, was produced by Michael Catano, Mukda Mohan, and Kasha Mahalovich for the MTV Podcast Network, with additional engineering by Little Everywhere. You can subscribe to this and all of our other shows on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, Google Play, Spotify,

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