Happy Sad Confused - Amy Ryan

Episode Date: March 17, 2020

We're back with a new episode in a new world! "Happy Sad Confused" hopes you and your loved ones are staying safe and that our little show brings you some comfort. In this chat taped before all hell broke loose in the world, Amy Ryan stops by Josh's office to talk about her life in the theater and in film. Her latest, "Lost Girls" is currently available to stream on Netflix. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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none of you are safe. New episodes every Wednesday, wherever you get your podcasts. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now. Today on Happy, Sad, Confused, Amy Ryan on her new film Lost Girls, plus we take stock of our new world. Hey guys, I'm Josh Horowitz. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused.

Wow, our title is... is more apropos than ever. This, of course, is our first show since everybody's lives changed in significantly shitty ways. So, yeah, that happened. This is happening. We're living in a strange world,

I think, and no one really could have anticipated this was going to happen as quickly as it did. But, yeah. The coronavirus has hit, it's hit in a bad way, it's everywhere, and we're just trying to survive now. We're just trying to live, you know, somewhat normal lives and be happy and be healthy and still connect with people as much as we can, even if we're isolated physically from each other. Yeah, I'm not going to lie. It's been as traumatic for me as it probably has been for you and your family.

Thankfully, no one in my immediate orbit is ill or, or sick. But, I mean, the numbers don't lie. This is going to get worse before it gets better. We all know that. If you read the data, it's sobering. And it makes my little show and all of entertainment feel a little bit insignificant when you get right down to it.

That being said, I don't know about you, but I feel like I need an outlet, a way to turn off the noise and turn on some pleasant noise, some happier noise, because otherwise I think I'd go crazy. So I'm soldiering on with happy, say, I'm confused, and you're welcome to join me. And, you know, it's kind of a makeshift happy, say, confused for the time being. I'm recording this in my apartment in New York City. I'm, you know, basically shutting like everybody else, anyone that's intelligent at least. that's really like paying attention to what the scientists and the doctors are saying, which is to just stay inside, if at all possible.

So that's what I'm doing. I have some new equipment that I ordered. I'm recording this in my bedroom, in my apartment. Hopefully it sounds all right. It might not sound as great as always. But then again, guys, you guys always complained about the sound quality and happy, say, I confused. So I figure I'm probably not that much worse than it always was. Right? Right?

So the somewhat good news in all this madness, it's so silly to even call this good news, but whatever. I actually taped a few interviews before this insanity all happened. So we have a few banked happy-sac-confused interviews, and I'm going to roll those out in the next couple weeks. And beyond that, you know, I have been thinking. I have been thinking about sort of how to continue this podcast, even in this weird new world.

and that's really my intention. I really want to continue to do it. It might have a slightly different format. Safe to say, I probably won't be in physical proximity with my guess, but maybe we'll be doing phone interviews. I'm exploring that because, like I said, I think this podcast is a respite for me, and I know if you listen to this,

you probably enjoy listening to podcasts like this, and these are escapes in a way, and I can't listen to the news 24-7. So I do need to talk about movies and TV and entertainment because that's what fuels my mind and spirit often. So today's interview, today's conversation was taped way before this all happened. There might be a reference or two to the coronavirus. I don't even remember, but if it is a reference,

it was so early in the onset that it's not even relevant. That being said, this was a lovely chat with an actress that I have so much admiration for. Amy Ryan is a wonderful character actor. I think she'd take pride in that. She's a character actor. Not only that, she's a New York character actor. She's a born and bred New Yorker.

And if you listen to Have a Second Views, you know what that means to me. She's currently starring in a pretty, I mean, I wish I could say, hey, we got a light comedy to talk about this week. No, no, not really. We have Lost Girls, which is a pretty dark, sobering tale, a true life tale of these women that were murdered on Long Island and were really not given their due. They were marginalized and labeled by their work

and by their profession and not given their humanity in this really sad story. That being said, there is a lot of heart and humanity in this story. Amy Ryan plays the mom of one of these missing women and she really, it's a great showcase for her. I mean, it's staggering to look at Amy Ryan's filmography

and realize she really hasn't been the lead. I think she was a lead in a film a couple years back, and this is like virtually her second leading performance. And it's a great role for her, and she's excellent in it. She, of course, came to prominence in Gone, Baby Gone. She was Oscar nominated for that film. But she's also been a staple of New York Theater, has been Tony nominated and just is always amazing on stage.

She was a friend and collaborator with Phillips Seymour Hoffman. We talk about him. She's just got a good head on her shoulders and is one of our finest actors. So it was a real pleasure to get to know her and have her into the office, which I don't know if I'll be at the office anytime soon. I think I'm going to be recording these in my apartment, a little different. I don't have, I have less movie posters in my home than I had in my office at work. I might need to redecorate.

Anyway, I hope you guys are staying safe and healthy. That's the most important thing. You know, this, like I said, this stuff pales in comparison to the real world stuff. But that being said, I know watching movies and TV and reading in the last week has meant a lot to me. So I hope the next 45 plus minutes with Amy Ryan provides the same kind of relief for you and that the future episodes of Happy Sad Confused because we will not go down. We are continuing without any further ado. Here is my conversation with Amy Ryan.

Oh, wait, I should say, lost girls, you wanted to know where to see lost girls probably. It's on Netflix. It's on Netflix right now. So don't worry about going to the movies because you probably can't anyway. It's on Netflix. It's at home.

The safety of your own home, you can watch the movie right now. Anyway, here's my chat with Amy. today. Thank you for having you. So, first just congratulations. I mean, I'm such a fan of your work, and it's a good opportunity to talk to you because this is,

even on the resume, this is probably one of the more exceptional pieces of material. I think you've been associated with Lost Girls is the film. Thank you. I got a chance to see it at Sundance, and it really stood out. Oh, good, thanks. Had you seen it before then? What was your... Yeah, I saw

it right before we went to Sundance a screening, but seeing it with a group of people, I was really struck at the end that at the Q&A, they were right on to the case. Like usually Sundance is like, what was your budget? And what color of themes did you work when? And you know, and right away they wanted to know about the case. And that was encouraging to us all. So it's, um, it's funny because it's like a film that also, like, you're one of those actors that like, you know, without point too much smoke, like whenever you're in a project, blow it, let's just get it out of the way. No, but you, you're, you know,

You always deliver, whether the project itself is delivering, like, I can count on Amy Ryan's like to take care of her side of the street. You know what I mean? Thank you. And I would actually say that this is a film kind of like with a lot of those people. Oh, yeah, we've got it. It's like stock full of people who clean up their street. Exactly, whether it's like Bill Camp or Kevin, Kevin Corrigan, or the younger performers, whether it's Lilacurk or now Thomas. And Shaw, Thomas and McKenzie, Gabriel Byrne.

They all are just sort of like that person that you. you always kind of like, oh, yeah, that person knows how to deliver. So did that come, you should take all the credit, I feel like, since you're number one on the call sheet this time. Does it come from you? Does it come from Liz's Good Taste? I think it's Liz's Good Taste, yeah. And then also, I think there's a Liz's good taste,

but there's, when you shoot a film in New York, chances are you're going to have a bunch of actors who came up in the theater, and we're disciplined. You know, we know how to support a script and not ego and some other outside drama you know bring that to work you know I read Bernie like incredible like incredible cast

it's funny to see certain actors and you we'll get into this in respect to your career but like when the larger world discovers them it's like because you know that's the narrative certainly around your career will get to you but like I think of someone like Bill Camp

oh yeah I feel like we all knew we were all just waiting for everybody else to find him until then five years ago and then he was in like everything I know. I know. Thank God. He's such a phenomenal talent. And can kind of do anything. Yeah. So, so this one, I'm a New Yorker, obviously, like yourself. So sadly, this is a story that I do remember this Long Island serial killer. I don't want to, they didn't remember everything, though, certainly. And I didn't remember sort of where it was left. And

sadly, without ruining anything, it's still out there. It's still an unsolved mystery. talk to me about sort of like you have some interesting research materials you can go back to in this one you had so much so as as you say i too am a new yorker i remember this in the front page in the news but i remember more this um salacious details like craigslist and same like what our film fights against is like prostitute hooker all these words the buzz words yeah and um but in terms of reference material in preparing for the film. We had Robert Coker's brilliant book, which each chapter is devoted to one of the victims and their family. So there's all this backstory information.

And as well as we had, you know, there's a couple of documentaries on the subject. So there was footage of Mary Gilbert, the woman I play. So we had quite a lot. What about the news reports themselves? Because I mean, a lot of the narrative about this too is you know the title has a couple different meanings i think like these were these were girls that that were not identified in any meaningful way by the media they were the unnamed prostitutes sex workers hookers etc that were just dehumanized yeah and the way that a media can kind of like go to the salacious and and and skip the human the humanity right well you know

this is 10 years ago and i think with like with anything if you're reading a book like when your attention is focused in onto something yeah and for me it was this script at the time it's still in news media people are you know they're still referred to especially women especially people of a lower economic class you know um you know my my character says this like oh if she were you know rich and white and blonde you know it would be a very different story i mean yeah but um but yeah something about uh if you're poor and if you maybe you're not college educated, you're a bit disposable, you know, but that's Mary Gilbert, the character, she starts to change that narrative.

Yeah, she's kind of an unlikely protagonist for this kind of a film. One thing I appreciate it about the movie is, like, in the first 10 minutes, I feel like, oh, I've seen this. I know what this is going to be. Right, yeah. Right. And it's kind of familiar in kind of like a tawdry kind of way, like, okay, like, I mean, I enjoy this kind of a story and I know where it's going to go.

and then it becomes something completely different and it has a different kind of rewards. It doesn't have the reward of kind of like the gumshoe mom finding the bad guy but it has something almost a little more special and elusive and hard to pinpoint. Well, I think two things because it doesn't follow the traditional,

I'll just say kind of like a law and order formula where we're following the case and we're following like who's the bad guy going to be and what does all this evidence add up to. But it makes a hard right and starts following the way. women of the story. Yeah. And then it becomes,

I feel like a bit subversive. Like it starts working on you, like their outrage starts to become your outrage. Right. That this really happened. I can't believe they were treated this way. Yes. I can't believe they still,

you know, haven't solved this. I can't believe they lost evidence. Like, it's shocking. Well, and it puts you in the shoes of Mary and these women. I mean, whether like you have class differences or not, we're all mothers, daughter, sons, fathers.

We all, like, would feel the same feelings. would feel in this horrendous situation and have that outrage if a police officer said to you, matter of fact, like, oh yeah, we don't have that evidence anymore. It's almost more than like the human brain can take. That's right. Yeah. And Mary, too, like she's not, as you say, like, she's not this traditional gum shoe character or, you know, she, she's not polished and she's flawed and she's made maybe choices that she wish she hadn't in her life and raising her children, but she is a woman in, like, constant forward motion, and how can I correct the mistakes I've made, and how can I make sure they don't happen again?

Sure. She's now crippled by that. It's directed by Liz Garbus, who's a very accomplished filmmaker for documentaries up until now, and I know a lot's been made of the fact that there's a female filmmaker behind this, and it's a largely female-led ensemble. Is that something that, I mean, it has to occur to you in some respects as you're doing it, but is that something that more becomes a narrative after the fact in interviews like this, or is it noticeable that, like, oh, there's a different energy to this production

because of the leader and because of the principles in front of the camera? It's certainly more talked about in the post setting, but in the actual moment, there's a lot of, first of all, it's very natural, you know, felt great. Liz is smart. She did her homework. She knew the story she wanted to tell. She had. and assembled in a phenomenal team to help support that vision that she had. For us, I like the talk myself with, like, Miriam Shore and Honoreeder and Lola, we don't get to hang out with each other. I've known Miriam for 30 years or, you know, like, this is, you know,

well, it's the second time we work together, but you, why is this so rare? Like, you know, we're just, just savoring every moment. And working with a female director, I think it was, it's not to say like a certain number of men couldn't have done this, made this film, but I feel like it did help having a female director and a female point of view and to have it, you know, told with a large female ensemble. What that is, it's half something in the ether and half, I don't know. where a lot of us are mothers ourselves. We bring our own, you know, passion to that and our own, you know, set of fears. We're good collaborators, women.

A lot's been made also, I've noticed, like, in the press and people like me, like that up until a couple years ago, you'd really never let a film before and this is her second in a few years. Is that something that bothers you in some way? I mean, you've had a remarkable career and when you extend it to the theater, obviously there have been a significant amount

of waiting performances there. Is that something that you were aware of? I don't stamp my feet around the house, like, well, it's not bare, you know? I still have, like, I still have wonderful opportunities, but I can't help in not begrudging them, like male friends of mine who I've come up with, who maybe have been in the same career development

trajectory as me, like, oh, you're nominated for an Oscar now, But yet, if I look back, you've done 30 films. Your IMDB's filled up really fast. You know, and you mentioned someone like Bill Camp, another great actor, Michael Stoolbarg, these great supporting actors. Bill Camp this year, Michael Stoolbarg last year, they're in three out of the five nominated films in these amazing supporting roles. And good on them.

Your buddy, Michael Schenheim, my spirit animal here. Yeah, yeah, another one. Like, you know, and again, they're phenomenal. they work hard, they deserve it. But they're able to parlay that into opportunities that are a little more front and center. Well, Miriam sure should be in three nominated films this year. As should I, I should Lola Kirk.

Yes. You should be like, oh, there's that guy again. Oh, there's, there she is again. There's she is again. So it's just in terms of the written material and the stories being told and, you know, and lost girls, that's why it felt like something new and fresh because it is, it was, that there could be more

than one woman in this story, and she's not the wife. She's not the, you know, she's not the girlfriend, she's not the murder victim. You know, so when we see that, it's very real for us, actresses, and, you know, we just have to work harder at finding the material. Are you attuned to, I mean, you have played, I mean, you look at the IMDB, you've played a lot of wives and moms. and like a lot of them some are defined by that some aren't defined by that I guess the challenge then is like

look that's a huge part of a woman or a man's life is their family life but at the same time you don't want to be you know eight out of ten of those roles you don't want to be propping up someone else that's right and it's okay to be a wife and be a mother in film

what you don't want to be is and then what happened honey and then tell me what happened you don't set so like you know I play it all wife and a mother in Win-Win, but she was a very vocal center character. So I'm not going to write off saying, like, I won't, you know, I have some women who won't play wives at all. Like, they have a, you know, a strict rule about it, but I'm going to do it like case by case.

Like, look, Mary Gilbert is a mother. Am I not going to play that mother role? That's the mother of all the role. Right. Right. No, totally. Totally. So, you know, but, but yeah. Do you feel a responsibility when you're number one on the call sheet? I've talked a lot of actors about sort of like there's a top down kind of vibe on a set. Well, I have seen it in play by being number two. I might just call

myself number two. Number one in my heart always saying. Amy Ryan is a number two. Oh my God. But no, I have seen it you know, as Steve Krell is a great example of number one on the call sheet and the tone is set because he's such a gracious, decent human being and no one would

dare step out of line and not that that group would anyway that was a pretty great ensemble in the office but um i found myself being very protective of the crew like that's where i started using it you know maybe they they were the messenger like the pa team and they'd get in trouble so i i started then i changed my language as like tell them amy asked so it was on me how much longer till the scene is ready till the camera's like you know whatever it was So I always framed it by myself and tried to give them lots of food and candy. Went in doubt. Just feed them.

I mean, that's the way. Free shit and food. This is the secret to anybody's heart I've found in my ears on this planet. Without naming names, is there a worst example of someone that's like the top down set the wrong vibe? Oh, Michael Shannon. Oh, you said no names. Oh, that's so embarrassing. No, I want it now.

Michael is one of the scariest movies on the planet to many. I know it's secret, as to you. That's his dick. Exactly. I've said this before, one of my favorite things, I used to do a lot more junket kind of things and was watch other journalists, like, leave a room that had just interviewed Michael Shannon

because he's one of those, like, actors that, you know, a lot of actors, like, especially big movie stars, they go out of their way to ingratiate and, like, make someone feel, like, comfortable. I feel like Michael relishes that he can scare the shit out of somebody, just his aura. and just to see every, yeah, exactly. You're going to copy then.

No, he's a big. He's the best. He's a big heart. It's okay. So what we named him. He's the worst of them, okay. So, okay, so talk to me a little bit. So jumping around a little bit, obviously people talk about Gone, Baby Gone is a huge shift

in your career. In retrospect, when you look back, like, where were you? you at that point in your career? You'd obviously were extremely successful, especially on the stage. Tony nominated probably twice by them, I think, right? Were you dissatisfied with your career? Did you feel like you were missing something?

Did you feel like the ship had sailed on a film and TV career? No, I didn't feel like a ship had sailed. Certainly wanted more. I feel like a turning point before Gone Baby Gone was Capote. it was a small part but it was a great part in a beautiful film and the turning point for me there was that people didn't recognize me right and i i thought oh i suddenly that something dropped and clicked in my brain there about hiding away and being these other people i mean i always had that along the way but that that was kind of successful that bad outing for that reason and um no i mean gone baby gone was uh you know i i i i was in L.A. I just started working with my agent. It was in, you know, new. We were newly paired. And I thought I'll go to L.A. for pilot season. I really didn't want to. But I thought I should

show that I was, you know, being a good sport. Going to play the game a little bit at least. Yeah. Yeah. And the first audition, the first script he sent me was in a TV script. It was, it was gone baby gone. And Ben, the casting director was reluctant to see me because there was already a choice. that they were about to make and but my agent pushed me in that door which is thank god he did were they going with a name of names were they going with a name like no because ben always wanted an unknown got it um it's kind of funny like like you say you know he's like he mentioned to a friend of victor garber who's a close family friend of theirs and he said oh i found this great unknown name you're running he's like oh we've known naming for years in new york you know

like the theater welcome to the theater community but um but no i certainly know what he meant like I am unknown in film and so he was always looking for someone who wasn't famous and that so that served me well as I recall and you remember that time I'm sure very well too I think that is what served you so well is like not only were you so great in that film

and kind of like seemingly came out of nowhere to many of us but he also cast you like you had Jill Quig I think like literally by your side who was not a professional actor was of that world and it was seamless it was like who's the actor who's not Oh, cool, yeah. Jill, that was an amazing story because, like, you know, it was really important to Ben to get Boston right and the sound, right, of that world. And he wanted to hire a bunch of non-actors, and this one person who came in was going to play my friend.

Anyway, the producers, they were unsure. And he said, okay, well, let me use this person. if she doesn't show up, we have this other person, Jill Quig, and the first person, sure enough, didn't show up. Wow. So, Jill was there. First rule of acting, just show up. Yeah.

Jill, Jill, the way Ben met Jill is she walked right on to set one day to the little tent video village thing and just leaned on the back of his chair. And she's like, what do you make in a movie? I want to be in this fucking movie. You know, like, anyway, you know, he's just like, his eyes lit up. He was like, I can't believe.

So when you're an actor in those scenes with her, was that like, was that intimidating or was that like, oh, this is, this gives me almost like something to like aspire to or? It was amazing, like, it was amazing to have, you know, was it live? Is it Memorax? You know, like she was in and of that world and so generous with me and, you know, I just watched her like a hawk and listened to her like, you know. Yeah, I rewatched it. What listens well? Hawksy well. What listens are all? I don't.

I'm not a zoologist. I'm barely a podcaster. I rewatched it for the first time in many years. Just I took the opportunity. It's obviously it holds up. It's such a great piece of work from so many. And yeah, there's the, I mean, what do you remember, like that great sequence? It's like Ed Harris is in your face.

And then you give it back to Amy Madigan, no less on the other side of the room. I mean, that's a lot of intense acting. There's a lot of, like, amazing actors coming at me. Yeah, Ed was in here recently for To Kill Mockingbird. He's like, I mean, I don't intimidate easily. He's an intimidating guy. He sure is. He's a super nice guy, but like you have to be on your toes.

Like, you know, I feel like it is that like in a video game or something. Like you've advanced to the next level. Totally. I'm on the Adhires level. Yeah, exactly. Now you're at the, you know. Bonus Jill Quig level. Swords, swords.

Coming at you. You better catch them. But I had, you know, that's where Ben and I were, uh, really in tandem with our thought. So Ben would give me a note, but he would give it in private. And, you know, so Ed didn't know what we were going to do next. And, I mean, the amazing thing with that character is you could do anything. And it was going to be within her wheelhouse of behavior.

She had no filter. She was like... No. So, you know, we threw a couple of things at Ed and both of us, Ben and I both like shaking in our boots. Like, how does this go over? but you know we could see that like twinkle in ed's eye and he's like responding oh wow that must feel magical twice as powerfully back you know what I mean like it was yeah it was cool because I will say at the first day uh we did a table read up in Boston and I was of course I was nervous you know I knew

this was a like a phenomenal opportunity in this role and and he he just said he goes that's some part you got there which is you know it's a little challenge too basically right like are you He's like, I don't know, who is this? Like, I don't know who this girl is. Like, who do you know? How did you get this? Do you belong to my table? Yeah, it is.

Yeah, it is. You know, like, but he was phenomenal to work with. So as I said, you're a New Yorker. Not only are you a New Yorker, you're a born and bred New Yorker, like myself. Were you born in a bread? I'm from the mean streets of the Upper West Side. Oh, okay. It's tough.

You're from Queens. My stoots are a little meaner. Okay. It got a little more creed than me. So were you? the family, did they expose you to theater growing up? What were you, like, what was your, what were your pop culture reference points? What were you obsessed with as a kid? Well, we came into the theater when we could afford it. We'd go to the KTS booth,

which was always, like, such a treat. My pop culture, I mean, as a, like, as a young kid, I was obsessed with the Muppet Show, Johnny Carson, Carol Burnett. There's a good Jim Henson exhibit I just went to over the weekend at the Museum of the Moving Image back in Queens, by the way. My mother-in-law founded that museum. I'm going to name drop. Yeah, I saw that exhibit. It's amazing. Yeah.

So, anyway, but I, you know, a lot of TV in my household, I used to watch, I don't know if it was back-to-back, but I have this memory of watching the odd couple reruns. Yeah. I shared her room with my sister. We'd watch that. And then next up, if this is, my memory's right. Prisoners of Cell Block H. Oh, I never saw that.

Which was this British, like, you know, soap opera about a women's prison. Naturally. So I feel like that spanned, like, then my love for like Mike Lee films, too. Sue Neal Simon, basically all in one. Summed up in one, yeah. The woman that can do a Drake Doremus film and Central Intelligence in the same year. That's the woman I want to talk to, Amy. There's my training.

There it is. so you end up at what's now become known as like the fame school but not only were you at the fame school but you were there by my math like right after fame came out like so was it still was it still buzzing was LaGuardia still like this is the school where people dance on the tabletops well I was in the old building so they filmed the movie across the street at the church

and they used some of you know the exterior location so we were very aware of the film Sure. With like a big sense of pride, like someone was like, oh, fame, like the TV show, like, no, like the film. You know, we were like, make sure they knew. And it was.

I feel like that film was really accurate, like an experience there. Now when we moved and joined forces with music and art became LaGuardia, it just became like a large, you went from this small conservatory feeling with, you know, really few students to a larger kind of high school setting and going through a metal detector

And, you know, so a little bit of that. Did many in your class stick with it? But I went my math. I saw that. Did Jennifer Aniston cross paths with you? She's younger than me. Yeah, we were there at the same time. Did you know each other at the time?

Oh, yeah. That's crazy. Yeah, Joe Jen, we called her. That's her in a game. And the alternate life, you could have been the lead on friends. Well, what a wife. She would have been. No, I saw that's hers.

Gone, baby, gone with Jennifer Aniston. Friends with Amy Ryan. This is a different world. I'd be curious to watch. My, Seth Gilliam. with my co-star from The Wire, or I'm his co-star, I should say. He and I were classmates. Got it.

Yeah, but I'd say, you know, we had about 40 kids in the drama department, and I feel like six or seven, I pursued it. But that was kind of the beauty of the school. Like, you become a senior or, you know, your junior, you're like, this isn't for me, so a lot of kids went on to universities and studied English, the maths and sciences, and the rest of us, boneheads cast. The ones that couldn't figure out anything else to do with them.

Oh, no, man. I'm going to try this acting thing. Did you find work immediately? What were the first couple years like? I was really fortunate, like, a month out of high school. I was enrolled in NYU, and I didn't make it there because I did a Neil Simon play about a month out of high school. So I just kind of started working mostly in theater out of school.

Was theater from the start something that felt like, you know, to use a cliche, felt like home to you? I mean, it's obviously been a home for you. Yeah, I loved it. I mean, I, I, you know, theater when it's great, there's nothing better when it sucks. I mean, like, there's nothing. Meaning like when you know. It's such a slow death.

You have to repeat eight times a week. Yeah, exactly. We have three more months of this. Yeah, yeah. Like, can't the reviews be worse? Can't they close us early? I know. It's, but it is.

it is a phenomenal experience to share with a group of strangers in the dark and help navigate through some story that maybe they haven't thought of themselves or hadn't pinpointed some emotion and, you know, we're going to do that for them. I was looking back and obviously I know that, you know, you knew Phillips Seamer Hoffman quite well through a number of collaborations, but maybe this is wrong, but I was looking at the math. Was the first time you guys cross paths in these two one acts that were together? This was author's voice and imagining Brad? That's right, yeah.

There were two one acts with this theater company called the drama department. I was in a Peter Hedges play. I mean, he was in a Richard Greenberg play. But we shared a basement dwelling dressing room separated by a thin cloth, you know. The glamour of theater. Yeah, I think Phil's character was a quadriplegic, which, of course, and he did beautiful. Of course.

But it was... Yeah, do you remember first impressions of him? Was he clearly, like, even then, like, a preternaturally talented individual? Oh, yeah, you knew. I mean, the first time I met Phil in L.A. that was a funny restaurant, Ed DeBevics or something, like with a group of friends, and he was a friend of a friend.

And you just knew even... I feel like you can tell who's a good actor even before you see their work. And even in that weird setting, like all of us around some large table and people eating other people's French fries or the waiters eat your French fries or something weird at that place.

But you could just tell there's something other about this creature. And then I had this experience with this dear friend and filmmaker Schiefer Campbell who Mike Shannon and Ewan Bremner and myself did a film of hers called Marvelous. and she was just a doer she ended up getting a bunch of

friends in a room and just a bunch of artists that were scientists, dancers, actors, writers and we all went because we love her and we'll do anything she asks but we got in this room and she just got us talking we'd do these little kind of strange improvs but in that group

was Phil Hoffman and Samantha Morton and a few other like really exciting artists and we just you know Phil was already Phil then but it, you know, he was, he was other. As was Samantha Morton, like, they're other. They're just, like.

They were fearless. They both like, right? Yeah, they could give a fuck. You know what I mean? Like, this is my take, take it or leave it. Like, yeah, it was really empowering to be in their presence. They did not apologize for not knowing or knowing or, you know. Well, it was choices.

Like, they were always making, like, not necessarily the obvious choices either. And Samantha still does, obviously. Yeah. I mean, like, you obviously knew him. a friendship so it's a different perspective but like even you know eyes of like a fan like i mean i just tweeted this the other day like i randomly once a month invariably it flashes through my brain like like i miss philips semer hoffman like i can't believe we've seen our last philpsiwer hoffman performance it's just like we were robbed it's hard for me to talk about

him in the past tense like i have to remind myself i'm like i still expect i'm going to see him around the neighborhood it's crazy and you and then you jack goes boating by the way something people should look up to is the only film he ever directed that you were yeah You were great in. So in the years prior to Gone Baby Gone, I alluded to this, like you're having a very successful theater career. Was there a common denominator in the kinds of, like what was the body of work you were seeking to craft for yourself then?

In theater? Yeah. Well, there's only, in terms of classic plays, there's only two roles I ever really thought, you know, that I said I wanted to play and luck and coincidence, happened that those came my way. One was Uncle Vanya

and the other streetcar named Desire, but in terms of playing the classics, I wasn't that interested in it. I was more interested in new writers, and I think a turning point for me in theater also was an Edward Bond play called Save that I did with Theater for New Audience. It was just

this phenomenal play and like insane role, but it required more. It was a darker level. And that felt really good to go through the dark song. Now we're getting to the good stuff. Yeah.

Who were the actors that, like, you were playing opposite, that kind of opened your mind a little bit. I mean, I think of like... In theater? Yeah. Like, what I said, Uncle Vanya, you have, like, Derek Jacoby. Oh, yeah. Laura Linney, Derek Jacoby.

I mean, Patricia Clarkson and I met in an Arthur Miller play at at Williamstown called The Ride Down Mount Morgan. I remember that play, yes. It was on a break between scenes. I said to her, I said, did you ever want to play Blanche? The Seifold went on. She's like, yeah, it's like, because I really want to play Stella. And we, you know, tried to get that play mounted for many years,

but the rights were always tied up in England, some production. But we finally, you know, we stuck to it. And it was about eight years later, we were able to do a production of it down in Washington at the Kennedy Center. Speaking back at the ride down Mount Morgan, Did you ever, did you collaborate with Arthur Miller? Did you know? He was, yeah. He was there.

Yeah, he would come every day for rehearsal. Hey, this is just a giant, gorgeous self. Like, he was very quiet. And I would sit with him. And of course, you know, I feel like you, your talent, you would be able to draw out everything we want to know about him. I was too intimidated by that. So I would just say, how was your drive?

Wait for the eloquent. to come out. Exactly. But he would, he would say, well, I was coming over the mountain and the sun was hitting the tree

and you're like, oh my God, Arthur Miller describing a road. But yeah, he was, and then, yeah, anyway,

he is, it's sometimes when, you know, you're in the presence of someone that great, you know, it takes a while

to catch your breath and meet the person and not the, giant figure that we know them to be. Well, in someone like you, who, like, obviously, is deepened the stuff and, like, this is your life. Yeah. It's, like, I can't think of another person.

That would be more surreal to just not only meet, but collaborate with at that point in his life. And then, like, I mean, I think in a similar vein on the film side, you got to know, presumably, Sydney Lemette a bit. You were on that TV series, which I do remember 100th Center Street, yeah. Alan Arkin. Yeah, Alan Arkin, Bobby Kind of Alley. Yeah.

That's a pretty good cast for a series that sadly, very few people probably. I remember at this point. But then before the devil knows you're dead, which I think was his last film. That's right, yeah. That's a pretty amazing film to go out on. Yeah, yeah, it is. The original script, there were two friends

and was Sidney's idea to change it to brothers. And I just thought, obviously, that would be much more devastating. And I think at the time, like, Sydney, I think there was, like, trouble that maybe he wasn't going to get the insurance, you know, or the bond, whatever. Right, right. And then because they're like, oh, he's so.

He's old. He's 83 at the time. It's like Sydney came in under time and under budget. Of course. You know? Like, what are you talking about? It's like I remember that it was like on the Altman's last film, right? Prairie Home Companion, P.T. Anderson came in as like the like backup director.

And Alman was fine, but they just like a guy on set. Yeah. You did not need to worry about Sydney limit. Yeah. Amazing. Okay. So I know we've gone back and forth. But so then post Gone Baby Gone, Gone, you see, you experience all the, you experience all

the sadulation, you got the Oscar nomination. You know, I talked to a lot of actors that are like, you know, like it was fun. Like, it was a fun ride, but it didn't change my life. In your case, it feels like it probably did change your life. It changed my career, for sure. I mean, did it change my life? No, after the Oscars had came home and I was still doing my laundry down on Hudson Street, like trying to get enough quarter.

Not that I've, you know, to be like, find the machine. But, no, it definitely changed my career. And I remember before the Oscars, Ben Affleck wrote me this amazing email that kind of centered me on the whole thing because it's a very out-of-body experience. You're half looking at it through the lens of yourself as a kid on the couch when you're a little like watching the Oscars. And then to be there, you know, seeing heroes or seeing your heroes misbehaved

or, you know, any of the stories you could tell. But he just said, he's, you know, you've already won you know people people are going to want to work with you and they're going to be good people and that's the greatest reward

it's all about like go back to the work you know it's not the red carpet and it's not the party and the da if I've gone to know you a little bit today I know it is about the red carpets and the glitz and the ground and that's what you crave you could give a damn about solid material

and directors exercise regime my routine I want to share with everybody and your new fragrance you're going to sell Well, you want to be a brand more than an actor. I want you to see the interior of my house. Exactly. I want you to know what sheets I've chosen.

So have you lived here basically solidly your entire life beyond? You've never had to do the L.A. thing too much. Never with more than one suitcase. That's, congratulations. Yeah. And like, so yeah, for work. I mean, doing theater. I did play in London.

I was there for four months, but I can't really say that was my home. Right. travel for work but no new york is always home yeah do you take a pride in that is like i mean you are like you know if i think if i made a list of like new york actors today yeah you're on that list oh well thank you because i had a list growing up and my list was phil and laura lindy and patty clarkson and i i would see that and julia more like seeing these people make these have these beautiful careers and they just made smart choices and they saved their money so they get, you know, stay in New York and do cool little independent films.

And so thank you for putting me on that list. You're definitely there. And then you're also on this weird list where, like, I know you recognize more than anything to the stay for the office probably, just because the, like, bizarreness of television and the way and Netflix, exactly, which is insane. Yeah. Do you get, like, what's the common office interaction? Are you like your buddy Jennifer Anderson back in the day?

He always asked about a reunion or like, why are you guys getting back together? Do you get that? Are you Holly from the office? Yeah, you get that. Which you always deny. Which you always say, nope. You know, they know those guys who stand on the street like, hey, do you have a minute for save the children? Do you have this?

You know, there's two and they get you coming and going, you know. And I always thanked them. I'm like, sorry, I've got to go. But the guy was yelling, wait, are you, are you Holly? And I suddenly felt very self-conscious and I didn't stop to save the children. You know, Holly didn't care about the children. Next on TMZ, Oscar nominee. Yeah, I know.

But no, honestly, like most people have been really sweet and complimentary, and they haven't, you know, they haven't chased me down the street. They're not, they didn't ask anything of me other than to say thank you. Yeah, so like, I have time for that. Sure, yeah. Yeah. At what point during your next collaboration with Steve, beautiful boy, did lovely Timmy Chalamey reveal his obsession with you and Steve?

He was just one day on set, he just kind of like, he just kind of came out of his skin. He's like, oh, my God, I can't believe Holly and Michael, my parents. Oh, my God. He's so, he's so phenomenal. I know. And I, you knew of Timmy watching his scenes and beautiful boy, call me by your name. I hadn't been released yet, so just him on set navigating through. this material.

I was like, this kid is phenomenal. Oh my God, he's so good, he's so good. And then I saw, call me by your name. I was just, I was like, he's here to stay. No, it does feel like one of those, like, kind of like, there are a few in each generation where you're like, oh, this, we're going to have great performances for a while from this one. Yeah, I agree wholeheartedly.

And salt to the earth, like nice human being. Yeah. New Yorker. New Yorker, performing a lot, or LaGuardia. Sorry, he's younger than me. my saddest moment here was when he like he also comes from like around where I grew up and he asked me how old I it was as if like we had knew the same people and I'm like I'm literally twice your age if not more buddy appreciate it um it must have been a nice you obviously shot

birdman here um we rehearsed it in L.A. Did you? Yeah. Got the blocking and everything down there. Yeah. Soundstage like meticulous yeah by inch of your life blocking and then yeah then we shot it here did that feel like oh this is where like the theater training and all of that kind of kicks in a bit you know in terms of that you know there's no safety net i mean obviously we we we we stopped we had to a couple of times if something happened but the idea of everybody being in it together so even though i wasn't in the scene prior mind you know with zach alfenakis and michael but what i did mattered that we would go back and they'd have to do theirs again because it's all connected.

So is that, so where you're at right now, where like, so I assume you're taking a, I know you've been kind of like carrying the flag for lost girls, as you should. This one, is it for her to say this is like, this is on the short list of ones you're most proud of? Yeah, I mean, for so many reasons, I think the film came out beautifully.

I think the story really matters, like end of day. Yeah, we're here to entertain, the story matters and um yeah it i am as you should be are you are you are you would you call yourself like an ambitious actor like are you the type that's always like this was great but if i had that that that and that or i need that i wish if i maybe i should be like i'm not on any social media like i don't i know i can't even and not for any protest about it i just like can't even get through like freaking my emails or returning you know could be an Instagram star, Amy.

Oh, God. I need, like, a 15-year-old to help God be through. We really do. What's a TikTok? I don't know. I don't know. As somebody that's worked at MTV for many years, I feel like the oldest human being home. Are you kidding me?

It's a constant reminder. Yo, MTV Raps. You see me my favorite show. Yeah, let's not go down this road. We're going to sound like we're 95 years old each. That's true. But what were we talking about? Because my old brain can't remember.

Ambition. I mean, I'm ambitious when I really like something. I'm not ambitious for ambitious sake. Like, look at me, keep me in people's mind just so I can stay relevant. Like, I don't know how to do that, quite honestly. I'm too shy to go to many parties. Right. And quite frankly, like a little too shy to talk about myself in that way.

But this is different when I can talk about lost girls. You know, talk about something I'm a part of. Right. But I, you know, again, I know that's okay because the people that I admire, I see the way they do it. It's okay. It works out. Exactly. Exactly.

Do you know what you're shooting next? What's the game plan going forward? No, I'm going to do, Liz Garbus is working on a documentary, and I'm going to just do some voice work for her on that. So I'm going to do anything Liz asks. Yeah, she's proven herself. I don't know. I don't know. All right, Amy Ryan,

available for hire. Theater, film, TV. You haven't done a TV series, I think, since, what, office or in treatment, like those days? Yeah. Everyone's doing the 10-episode Netflix thing.

What's going on, Amy? I got a fine one that's in New York. Yeah, that's it again. Yeah, okay. Yeah. All right. We'll make it happen. Okay, good.

Okay. Thanks again for your time today. I appreciate it. And so ends another edition. of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts.

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