Happy Sad Confused - Andrew Garfield, Vol. II (Plus Sam Heughan, Colin O'Donoghue, & Katherine McNamara)

Episode Date: May 4, 2021

Andrew Garfield returns to "Happy Sad Confused" at last and there's a ton to talk about, including his new film, "Mainstream", his love of "Paddington 2", and all those rumors of his return to playing Spider-Man! Plus, Josh welcome Sam Heughan, Colin O'Donoghue, and Katherine McNamara for a special preview of "Happy Sad Confused: Game Night"! To watch Sam, Colin, and Kat on Game Night, go to the new Happy Sad Confused patreon page here! For all of your media headlines remember to subscribe to The Wakeup newsletter here! And listen to THE WAKEUP podcast here! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Today on Happy, Sad, Confused, Andrew Garfield on mainstream and those Spider-Man rumors. Plus, a sneak preview of Happy, Sad, Confused Game Night, with Sam Hewold. and Colin O'Donoghue and Catherine McNamara. Hey guys, I'm Josh Horowitz, and yes, as I alluded to, this is a pack show. We have a lot going on. Andrew Garfield is the main event, a huge interview with him where we cover a ton. But before we get to that, here's what I want to mention. As you may have heard by now, or if you haven't, here's the lowdown.

We are launching a new series called Happy, Sad, Confused Game Night. It is a video series. It is seen exclusively on the new people. Patreon page for happy, sad, confused. You guessed it. You can find it at patreon.com slash happy sad confused. So what we're doing over there is we're trying new stuff out and we are kind of our flagship big exciting thing is we are going to be filming these kind of really loose, fun game nights with actors that I love, actors that you've seen and heard on my podcast and on my shows for Comedy Central and MTV. And this first episode is fantastic. It has

Sam Hew and it has Colin O'Donnie U, it has Kat McNamara, all of whom have been on the podcast before. But this is basically 45 minutes of us just being super silly playing all sorts of crazy party games. I know you guys are going to dig it. I'm so happy with it. We've got a lot more amazing guests to come on Game Night. That episode is up right now on the Patreon page, patreon.com slash happy, sad, confused. Now, if you don't want, if you have your doubts, maybe you don't want to go full in on the Patreon thing and I totally get it. It is all good. But if you want to hear a little tease of it, after my conversation with Andrew Garfield on the podcast today, stick around after the Andrew Garfield chat and you'll hear about five minutes of some fun chit

chat with Sam, Colin, and Kat. That conversation, by the way, at the end of this podcast is not on the video of happy, say, confused game night. Does that make sense? Maybe a little confusing. But here's all you need to know. If you want a little taste of Sam, Kat, and Colin, stick around to after the podcast. If you want the whole shebang,

if you want a ginormous video episode of Happy Say I Confused Game Night, and trust me, you do go to the Patreon page. It's been long in the making. I'm really proud of it. We're also going to be having video versions of the podcast when available. It's not always going to be the case

on the Patreon page plus tons of other extras merch. Happy Say I Confused merch. Exclusive announcements, early announcements, early access to the podcast. I've really tried to deliver you guys an experience worth becoming a Patreon. So, yeah, check it out.

See how it goes. I hope you guys enjoy it. Anyway, back here in the Mothership in the podcast, which will, by the way, always remain free, the guest today is Andrew Garfield. Andrew Garfield, one of our finest actors working. It's been a minute since he's been on the podcast. I think way back when in 2015 was the last time he was on the pod.

So there was a lot to catch up on. He is in a new film that opens this Friday. It is called Mainstream. It's from Giacopola. It is a bizarre, small art film really tackling with some of the most important issues of our time, namely our preoccupation with social media and how it can destroy us, how it can compromise us, and it features a tremendous performance at the center of it from Andrew Garfield. So I recommend you checking that out if for no other reason to see Andrew do his thing

and he never gives less than 100%. So that's the main reason why Andrew caught up with me today. But we cover so much more. I mean, the big thing for you comic book geeks like myself out there is we get in. into it about Spider-Man and all those Spider-Man rumors. You know as well as I do. Everybody's saying Andrew Garfield is in the new Spider-Man film. Well, he is pretty definitive in my conversation. He's not pretty definitive. He is definitive about those rumors in this chat, more so than I was expecting him to be. So stick around. There's a lot of Spider-Man talk, a lot about those

rumors. We talk about the aspects of the Tom Holland version of Spider-Man that he wishes he could have played. So if you're here for Spider-Man Talk, it's in there. Plus, we talk about tick-tick-tick-boom, Andrew Garfield's first musical that he is starring in. He has already shot it with Lynn Manuel Miranda behind the camera, plus the eyes of Tammy Fay, which I can't wait for, in which Andrew plays Jim Baker opposite one of our favorites, Jessica Chastain, as Tammy Fay Baker. Plus, Andrew, on his comfort movie, Paddington, too. It's, and if that weren't enough to make you happy that he chose Pattonton to his comfort movie. The story behind it, well worth listening to. It's one of my favorites in some time on Happy, Say, Sad Confused. So, man, yeah, this is a big

episode. There's a lot going on. Okay. So here's what's coming up. Main event with Andrew Garfield. And remember, stick around after Andrew Garfield for a little chit chat with Sam Hew and Colin O'Donohue and Kat McNamara. And for the big jamboree, the video version of Happy, Say, Sad, Confused. Game Night, the first episode, go to patreon.com slash happy secondfused. Let me know what you guys think. I want to hear from you. And yeah, I hope you guys enjoy this conversation with Andrew. Oh, by the way, I educated him on how to record on QuickTime on his computer. So if nothing else, Andrew Garfield got a new life skill out of this conversation. Here's me and Andrew Garfield. Andrew Garfield had just learned a new skill thanks to Josh Harwich, guys.

That's all we got time for. See you guys next week. For those that are just tuning in, I just taught Andrew how to use QuickTime. Buddy, it's, as I said, for the record, it brings me so much joy to see a familiar face, someone I love and adore. I hope you're doing okay, man. It's nice to see you too. That's very, very sweet. I'm doing well. I hope you're doing well.

You seem to be doing well. as you know it's all smoke and mirrors around here no but yes all things considered you haven't you haven't aged a day oh please saw you hasn't we're both just bathing ourselves in oil of O'A it's all the secrets um I think the last time maybe one of the last times I saw you at least for an on-camera interview might have been maybe it was as far back as this Toronto Claire Foy I feel like that interview ended with like us miming sex acts with microphones. I feel like I would remember that, but... Oh, you've walked it out through therapy? I haven't.

I guess what I'm saying is this can go anywhere. Right. Yeah. And it's been a long time and I'm sorry that I haven't called. I've been doing, I've been doing mostly a play for the last like four years. I did like, I did a play. I did Angels in America for a long time and it was an easy one though. That was just like one you could just sort of like. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, but so it's odd like, so my movie life has been less active because Tony Kushner is very demanding and his ideas are very demanding and, you know, theater is very demanding. But I wouldn't have changed it for the world, but it's nice to be reconnected. Yeah. So you, I'm just curious, as I kind of reconnected with all

these people, I haven't seen so long, I think you've been, you've done some shooting in the last year. Yeah, maybe Iso-Tami Faye you did or Tick-Boon, right? Both of those things, yeah. Got it. In between those or during those, I'm just curious, like all, I feel like all our consumption habits changed a little bit. I always look forward to the end of every year when Steven Soderberg puts out his list of like every form of media he consumed. I don't know. You see that? Yeah. So high, low art that you consumed in the last year? What were you into in 2020? Yeah, man. You know, 2020 was a year for me where I could watch television, really, for the first time, because I haven't had the opportunity to, catch up on TV, the great TV that's been made and movies. But to be honest, like I really got into TV, like 0,000, I think was one of my favorite, favorite shows

of the last year. I just thought that was so thrilling and exciting with great performance, everything. It was just a total experience. I haven't said that's like Dane Dahan and Andrea Rysborough. Do I have- Andrea Risenberg, Dhan, Stefano Salima is the director, and it's set.

It's multinational, so it's set in Italy and Mexico and New Orleans and in the middle of the ocean. It's, oh, my God, man. It's so epic in scale. Cobra Kai. I got into that, too, for the first time. We binged it all the way through. We did it. The fucking best.

So satisfying, right? So satisfying. And I think, I mean, I'm so curious about why it's why I love it so much because, and it's definitely a nostalgia feeling and a kind of comfort feeling with all the kind of of like cuts back to young Miyagi and you know Daniel Laruso and but I think it's kind of been genius that how they've flipped thematically you know this thing of you know no one is born bad and our nature versus nurture and how if Johnny May had a different experience growing up then maybe and now seeing how you know Daniel is is raising his daughter and his son and how like their life of privilege may not, you know, be all that, you know, beneficial to them.

And the longer, listen, I, a dissertation of Kobra Kai is being written as we speak. You're right, because it's a good version of what we've seen way too much of, which is all these nostalgia kind of legacy sequel things. But that's, that's the smart version in turning it on TED a little bit and treating it with the intelligence. Yeah, it's broad. It's kind of like, it's obvious in some ways. But it's also, yeah, I think you're right. It's clever.

And the fight sequences, like the end of. season two fight i think it's in the season two fight sequence in the high school is like the long shots and the whip hands and the and the and the uh the steady cam i'm just like these kids are bidding the shit out of each other and how are we allowed to watch this and not feel like this is problematic i think there's also something interesting in that as well about it's very it's it's it's it's the main character is super problematic in this like like dumped into this particular culture and winking to that and nodding to it and also kind of it loosens the the conversation a little bit so that actually you can by making fun of itself it's kind of i don't know i dig it i really really

dig it so you mentioned uh the word that comes up a lot when i'm talking about people what people have been watching which is comfort i was going to get to it later but let's just get to it now and then we'll work our way around back to mainstream if it's okay um i asked for your comfort movie a lot of people have been going like, you know, I saw this 12 times when I was 10 years old. By my, by my math, your comfort movie you saw at the ripe old age of maybe 34. So I don't know what that says about you. Well, it says I had no comfort before I was. Yeah, I've been so uncomfortable until then.

No, it's so it's interesting. So you asked me the question and I thought about it hard. And I felt like, because it's an important question. It's actually most important question. And like, there are thousands of things that I could have chosen. I could have, I could have talked about the Goonies or Teen Wolf or Back to the Future or Ghostbusters or Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom weirdly. Um, you know, a sequence, please, come on. So, so, so, so there is, there is like a, a kind of smorgas board that I could have chosen because I am all about comfort. I'm all about Tom Hanks comfort. I'm all about, you know, Joe versus the volcano. I'm all about big. I'm, I'm, you know, so, so I really could have gone multiple directions.

And I, but weirdly, when I thought about a movie that I've been watching this year a few times, it was Paddington 2. And, and for anyone who's seen Paddington 2, it needs no explanation. It is an actual masterpiece of storytelling, of satire, of, of, of hijinks, of physical comedy. like and and just exquisite artful framing and filmmaking with of course kind of and that the final moment of I won't give it away for anyone who hasn't seen it when you know who arrives at the door after you know years of being separated and she arrives and it's it's profound like it's profoundly moving and I'll tell you why it's comforting to me it's a very specific reason I was doing so when I was doing Angels in America in New York, I would go to a friend's house every Sunday

after the matinee on Sunday, which was my last performance of the week. And then I would have Sunday afternoon, Monday, and Tuesday to recuperate before I started up again on Wednesday. And so Sunday afternoon evening was like a ritual for me where I would go to my friend's place who's one of my best friends in New York City. I won't tell you his name because he likes being low-key. But he's a massage therapist. And so he would just iron out all the kinks. But also he likes smoking weed. And I occasionally like smoking weed. I'm not a big weed smoker by any stretch of the imagination, but it's something that I will occasionally do recreationally. And we would always smoke weed before he would work on me. And then we would watch RuPaul's Drag Race. That was our

kind of ritual. And, you know, there's no better Sunday night than that. And, like, as he was, you know, and he's a musical theater bus. We were talking about musical theater. It's just the best night ever every Sunday. And, and his, and his boyfriend would cook a beautiful, like, spaghetti and meatballs. And it's just like, that is, that was my comment. This is the recipe to heal yourself after Angels in America, eight shows a week. Yeah. And I was in the middle of the run. And one Sunday I arrived, and I was so just, I was white. because I was just, I was so exhausted and anyone who knows that show and knows what I mean. And I got to the place. I was like, give me that fucking joint. And I just, I just got so high

because I was so like, I just need to be out of my head and blah, blah, blah. And I got, I just got really, really, I just like, I went, I'm a sensitive little little flower. So I just went too hard. And I lay down on the, on the table. And I was like, oh, hold on. I sat up. And he was like, you're okay, buddy. I'm like, yeah, let me give that another try. I lay back down. I was like, wait a minute. I was like, buddy, he was like, yeah. I'm like, I'm too high. And he was like, okay, buddy, just come over to the window and put your face against this nice cold window and I'll just talk to you for the next 45 minutes. And that was that. And like he kind of talked to me, you know, when I don't know anyone who's had that experience

when you feel like you're just a cloud of thoughts and you don't have a body anymore and you just can't wait for the experience to be over. So I just had my face against this nice cold window while my friend tried to just remind me that I am incarnate and that I'm not just a cloud of existential anguish. And he got me to the place, like any good friend would, to the place where he could get me into a cab, and I was nice. I was like coming back to myself and he was like,

just go home and chill and whatever. And then he was like, hey, maybe give Paddington two a try. So I got on the couch. And I had like, I wrapped myself. up in like a blanket and I'm just like, I'm okay, I'm okay. I'm not just thoughts. I'm a person with feelings and a high body. And I put Paddington 2 on and just as it was coming on, I got to that really lovely place of being high. It was all equalizing out. And suddenly I had maybe one of the best nights of my whole life. You win the best reason for a comfort movie.

I've been doing the comfort movies for about a year, and you, my friend, win the prize. Yeah, it hit you in the right, your cerebral cortex was right in tune with it. You were chill enough. It was there for you. It is a part of me now. And it's a part of me now. And it's, you know, what's really funny, I don't know if you're aware of this, like, you're in the zeitgeist because literally, as we take this, like, two days ago,

do you see the headlines about Paddington 2? No. Seriously? I thought you were just, like, ripped this out of, like, Google News. What was it? So Paddington 2 has surpassed. and Cain as the best reviewed movie of all time. I kid you not.

Well, I mean, the proof is in the pudding, baby. Like, it's, you know, just lay your eyes on it. You'll get it. You know, that's great. Oh, I love that. I love that. I had no idea. I had no idea.

It is, but it is absolutely brilliant. It's really brilliant. It's just a great movie. You grant deserved some award recognition. for his performance. Sure. Sure. Yeah, I mean, all of them. Like, Sally Hawkins, Hugh Bonneville, Ben, we're sure. Like, it's like, it's just... Do you want a part in the, in the Paddington multiverse? Do you have your eyes on a certain role? There's a reason why I said yes to this interview, Judge. Yeah, this is the... And we've achieved it. Yeah, exactly. Eat your heart out, Scorsese. I would need

Paddington 3. I would love to do. I would love to be a part of the Paddington canon in some way. That's a great pick, man, and a great story behind it. So the reason we're catching up today is this fascinating new movie mainstream, which I very much dug, and it is, you know, it's like some of the work you've done, it's going to be, it's already been a bit divisive and, you know, that's what you want out of art, right? Talk to me a little bit about, I don't know, this character's fascinating to me. It's a little bit like Howard Beale and Network. It's a little bit of like Robin Williams and the Fisher King. There's like, there's some interesting elements to him. Is it the character in this case that jumped out

off the page or what? It's so Gia Coppola is the director and writer and she's been wanting to make this film for a long time for a bunch of years. She's had like a feeling about her own experience and relationship with the world and with social media specifically that she's wanted to express. And Gia has become a friend. She became a friend of mine. And I really, really wanted to just help her to get her. There's a scene in the film where Maya, Maya Hawke's character vomits out a bunch of emojis into a sink. And that feels like what Gia needed to do with this film. Right. So, so I, you know, I was so grateful that she asked me to help and kind of hold her hair back as she as she did it. So you know what I'm

saying? Like it felt like a real opportunity to to help out a friend that I really believe in as an artist and I really love. And the schedules lined up so that I had the free four weeks that I could come and come and play. And for me, you know, one of the things that was enticing for me about doing it was as you say it was an it was an opportunity to to get a bit weird and to not have pressure on it being like a studio film or like a big budget it was like it's an art it's an art film it's a it's a film that is experimental and isn't is is so so that that was one of the real draws for me because obviously i'm not just going to make a film for a friend just because they ask me But like, it has to have a reason for me to get an experience out of it as well.

Otherwise, it's a little, I'm not a charity case. Like, it's like, so what was in it for me was to work with Gia because I really believe in her and I love her. And I wanted to assist in her vision. And in a more selfish way, I got a space, I got to have a space where I got to access some parts of myself or some parts. of this character or parts that i didn't parts of myself that i didn't want to acknowledge were there or that none of us really want to acknowledge like shadow like shadow aspects of like you know what would that the kind of thing where you look at someone in the world and you go oh my god thank god i'm not them like like like that is so off putting and like like you know that that you can

feel with a lot of social media stars of like the the the the the like the the be seeing this is the desperate yeah and also like oh my god like like it's so and it's so fascinating because it's so outside the box of convention and so provocative and so in a lot of cases needing of attention and kind of uh overly exposed which which which which felt like I was like something so if I can access that in a way that's kind of um safe for me in a in a in a in a of making a movie and have fun, not care how I look, not care how people view the character, be totally liberated, risk being annoying, risk being grotesque, risk being like disgusting, disturbing, beguiling, whatever it is, and positive things as well. Like, really, like, you know,

I think about someone like Kanye West who is a complete, creative genius and for me he can oscillate between i'm i'm like totally overwhelmed by his talent and drawn in to kind of repulse to then drawn back in and then kind of like you know i i i just so that as an actor yeah that sounds like yeah because i think for i would imagine yeah freeing because i think a lot of us a lot of actors can get stuck in caring or what or considering making decisions or choices or creating characters based on wanting to be liked and wanting to not rock the boat in that way,

to kind of image, image, like caring about one's image. There's a trap that actors can fall into where they're more concerned with whether they're liked rather than what they want to express. So for me, it was an exercise in, Look, I remember when I was a kid and I was very fucking annoying to my dad and to my brother. And I was a monkey boy that wanted lots of attention that wanted, there was, that was, you know, tugging on their their shirts and kind of making a mess of their risk game, the game of risk that

they had been playing for five hours. And I just came and like just destroyed the whole thing. And it was just like, get the fuck out. Four year old Andrew, six year old Andrew, whatever you are. and then of course we all learn in our well for the most part in our family dynamics we we learn to exile parts of ourselves that that um that we fear aren't welcome in the household that may be oh man if i if i keep being annoying maybe they won't feed me or maybe they won't maybe they'll maybe they'll put me out on the street if i keep annoying them so i better shave off that part of

myself but you know those parts of ourselves don't go anywhere they they remain there they just they just become that they if we put them whatever we put in the basement just grows in power uh without integration so for me it was like kind of opening the basement and going okay what are the parts of me that were that were kind of ex exiled as a child that i that i get to now and it was terrifying every most days because i was like i don't want to be this person like i've spent my life like avoiding being society tells me to like kill this guy to not never show him again yeah Exactly, exactly. So I think for me, what was beguiling about the character that Gia was wanting to create, and we created it, you know, it's really her vision. And then she let me loose. She let me get very loose and experimental and free on set on the day. And especially for the last two weeks where we were doing some like game show stuff and more kind of outlandish stuff, like the talk show and the final and the final monologue. And a lot of it was improvised and a lot of it was just kind of, like a kind of, it's very rare that you get to create something in a very unscensored way.

So I was just excited to access that in a creative, my own creative kind of like capacity to free myself up in that way and really not care how it's perceived. There's something kind of fun about that. I always thought you would end up naked on Hollywood Boulevard with a prosthetic penis. And I just didn't think it would happen this soon. No, I know. I know. I know. That's a sequence that I'm sure people were going to talk about.

they probably already talked about. I'm just fascinated by the filmmaking behind it because it feels Borat-ish. It feels guerrilla. Was there some aspect to, like, throw him out on the street, use long lenses and see what happens? Oh, yeah, definitely.

Yeah, that was the whole thing. I think, you know, obviously, you know, someone, you know, Gia and myself, we both have a relationship with Spike Jones, who, you know, we both, you know, admire so much in all of his creativity. But, you know, we would talk to him about Jackass and Johnny Knoxville, obviously, who ultimately got, came and had a part in the

film, and about how to set up something like that. You know, I haven't seen Eric Andre's new show. Oh, it's really good. Yeah, but I hear it's a fantastic, a fantastic thing. I'm really excited to see it. But yeah, so that was definitely a thrilling aspect of, of the film, of the filming. And I remember Gia being just very touched. She was weirdly, like, her eyes welled up after the first ten. of that Hollywood Boulevard scene. She was like, we're only going to get one take at this. And she was so concerned for me doing it. She was, are you sure you want to do?

Are you sure? And I did it. We did the first take. And she was like crying. She was like, this is the best day of my life. And I can't believe that you did this. And I'm sitting there going like the cat who ate all the cream. I'm like, let's do it again.

Let's just do it. How often do we get a chance to get your butt cheeks out out on Hollywood Boulevard without being arrested. Like, it's, it's, you know, life is short. And, you know, it was one of those moments of like, if I'm giving an opportunity to either do this or not do this, I would rather do it. Just to know what it is like like you, you know,

for someone that's not been on social media, you have this interesting relationship, like you're kind of like doing this like boyhood experiment where every 10 years you do a film that really grapples with social media. obviously social network in a much different way and now this which feels very current and feels like really about just what what every teenager let alone human being on the planet earth is dealing with um you know it's always fascinating to talk to somebody that's like just like has stayed off of it successfully and i think that's probably for your sanity and you're a wiser man than me

but like what is your relationship now has it evolved do you do you work out there you i mean you see the memes of yourself, you've seen all that stuff. Memes, wouldn't you mean, like, well, meaning, like, even just, like, using moments from your films or Dylan O'Brien recreating. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, I mean, I guess I just, I guess I'm just curious of, like, what your attitude has been and has it evolved over the years in terms of, like, being a part of culture,

because to remove yourself from social media is kind of a big step. You're removing yourself from, like, a, what, 99% of us interact with 10 hours a day. Right, right, yeah. It's such a big, it's such a big question and conversation. You say very generously, I'm wiser than you for not being on it, but I think it's more, I'm, I think I'm just too sensitive. Like, I would be too sensitive. And I, it would be, and maybe that is wise that I know that.

But like, it doesn't come from a place of strength. You know what I'm saying? Like it doesn't come from a place of like, I do also think it's not, man, I don't know. It's so, so tricky because I do have like a kind of a creeper account on Twitter that I follow and I look at news and I follow people that I'm interested in. you know so i suppose it's it's it's it's more voy is that voyeuristic is that is that uh hypocritical probably uh but there are some funny brilliant people on on on twitter and there and there's there's no better way of getting news um from the sources that you want to that you want that you trust and so and to follow subjects that you're fascinated by like so i don't know

we're all finding are like you need to figure out what works for you it's different for every single person, you know, temperament wise, etc. And even which platform it, like, makes sense for you. So it seems like you found the right one. Yeah. And I think for anyone who watched that documentary, the social dilemma, which I think does really well in kind of telling us what we already instinctively know, but kind of laying out, laying it out for us in a very visible, visceral, unflinching way, in a very simple way of like, you are a in a research experiment and it's addiction research and you've been made an addict in the process and no one and no one is exempt as long as we are using these devices we're none of us

are exempt so I think there's something to be said for awareness of that and you know I just spend the last three weeks in in without my phone really in on a on a road trip living in a living in a van for three weeks just kind of camper vanning and the the difference in my parasympathetic nervous system, the difference in my ability to listen, the difference in my ability to read a book, the difference in my ability to connect with a friend is palpable. There's no denying that these technologies are at this point are having very specific detrimental effects to how we interact. Well, I was even talking to an actor the other day who was talking, lamenting like the biggest

difference in working on a set now versus 20 years ago is as soon as you Yelp cut on 99% of the sets, every actor's face goes straight down to a phone. Oh, really? I mean, I expect that Scorsese probably doesn't allow phones like the Tarantino kind of right. Right, right. I haven't experienced, no, I haven't experienced that on the last couple of things I made with Tick-Tick Boom and Tammy Faye. It didn't, I didn't notice that particularly. But yeah, I mean, listen, fuck man, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know. But I, but I do, I do feel, I don't know, I do feel that there is a big, especially during the pandemic, there's been a big, and you know, and you can tell that the culture is ready for this conversation now with the fact that Octopus Teacher and Nomad Land both won top honors at the Academy Awards, that it means that and the fact that they've been viewed by so many people. There's a hunger. There's a hunger in culture right now for that reconnection with nature, that reconnection to our true nature. There's something naturally occurring where we're being drawn back to more primordial forces and a sense of belonging in the natural world, away from this constant ascension, obsession with ascension that we have as a culture towards we.

We will colonize a new planet and we will bring all the same bullshit there. It's like, wait a minute, can we just like descend here for a bit? Like, descend meaning like get down into ourselves in a way that, you know, I know it's really scary for most people. All of us, none of us want to kind of, you know, a descent is never as appealing as an as an assent. But we can't, you know, if we keep ascending, we just end up like Icarus and then we're just, you know, we're burned by the sun. Yeah, we're all aware of where that goes. So, yeah. I'm fascinated you talked when you were talking about mainstream and the reason for doing this from an acting perspective and how freeing it is. And this is the kind of stuff you can't necessarily do. And 99% of like studio films or films of a certain budget with pressures and expectations. Like yeah, I think back to, you know, I first met you on the Spider-Man run nearly 10 years ago probably, maybe even more than that. And, you know, since those two Spider-Man films, if you look at the choices you've made, you look at the plays you've done, you'll get some of the films you've done under the silver.

Lake and this. These are not like, you know, these can be, again, these are not the obvious choices. You haven't done a franchise film, quote and quote, since Spider-Man. Yeah. Is that a, is that something that's crossed your mind? Like, yes, I know there was good and bad experiences associated with Spider-Man, but coming off of that, like, I need to recalibrate. I need to kind of get back to what's important to me as a human and as an actor and not with the business stuff getting in the way. No, I think so. I think I think I really I realized, you know, you only realized by doing, right, by going down a path and then going, oh, wait, I need to go this way. And for whatever reason, in retrospect, you know, you can figure out

why you move in a certain direction after you've gone, you've gone down one tributary. So for me, I think if I could analyze it, it would be, I, I realized that I wanted to be an actor. That's really, like and and I remember it's not it's not that I never it's not that I never it's not that I always wanted to be an actor but I think I realized that that was being threatened by this specter of being being so known and celebrity and that that that kind of that kind of modification of your celebrity and career yeah right which was just it was never interesting to me but but when you but when you do a film like that there are things that um are out of your control that happened just in terms of being known by a great number of people on the planet for this one thing. And this was something that wasn't, I realized very quickly, oh, that's a trap. That's a trap. That's a prison, a gilded one. And it's not, and someone, someone might want that prison. And I'm not knocking that in any way, shape or form. But, but for me, I didn't, I knew very clearly, I want to work with Scorsese.

I want to do death of a salesman. I want to work on angels in America. And yeah, as you're talking about mainstream, it's like, I want to not, I want to be an actor first and like an artist, if I could use that word first, and someone who creates from the gut and isn't concerned with, if that's the North Star, if the North Star is telling stories that I want to tell having experiences that i want to have and um being a part of of things that have soul that my soul feel called to feels called to that's the north star and anything else outside of that doesn't really matter and and and and and if if if if fame follows that if money follows that if um failure follows that if destitution follows that that that's a life well lived as far as i'm concerned so So that's what it is for me. So I think with Spider-Man, oh, man, I just appreciate Spider-Man so much. I have more and more appreciation for that period of my life the further away I get from it.

Because when you're so close to it, you're wrestling underwater and you're trying to figure out how to navigate. And now, thank God, I've had the opportunities that I've had with Mike Nichols and with Scorsese and with Mel Gibson and with, you know, Ramin Barat. and and with Tony Kushner and with Arthur Miller and Phillips Seymah Hoffman and like thank God I've had those experiences so that I can now go you know okay I I feel freer I feel like I've I've I've been digging I've been digging other holes and planting other you know other other trees that and growing them so that it's not just this one tower bayamoth of an oak that I'm going to forever be in the shade of. So, and I want to continue doing that. That's really the intention going forward is to remain free enough to, to follow

that soul's calling, if I could, if I could say it that way. Did you, I'm just curious, did you read Mark Harris's Mike Nichols' biography out? I haven't read it yet. He interviewed me for it very late in the day. I don't know if I was included in it, but I'm very excited to read it, But also at the same time, my experience of Mike was so, I just kind of want to keep it sacred and pure. I started to read this other great book about, it's only, what's it called? Life Isn't Everything, which is a collection of interviews with. Oh, I have that, the oral history basically about it as well. Yeah, about Mike.

And it's really beautiful and anecdotal and gorgeous. But at the same time, I'm like, oh, man, I just, I have, I feel blessed in the, that I have such an intimate relationship with him, even though he's no longer incarnate. I feel kind of close with him spiritually still. That's plenty, that's more than enough for me, that he's an ancestor in a way, you know what I mean? I can think of him and talk to him as an ancestor.

It's quite beautiful. Speaking of theater, you've worked with Lin-Manuel Miranda Miranda recently on Tick-Tick Boom, his feature directing debut. As far as I can recall, this is your first musical this is this is a step i mean do you feel more exposed in tick-tick boom than running around with the prosthetic penis on hollywood boulevard that's yes wow that's saying something singing is the most singing is the most vulnerable thing for anyone who sings it's like it's like being naked on you know on broadway it's fuck man so first of all i love

I love Lynn so much. I love him. This elemental force of nature who also is kind of an 11-year-old, just like picking up a VHS camera. And he's just like he is a, he is an elemental man. Like I'm just so blown away by his genius. And so him, him asking me to do to do Tick-Tick-Boon was because Hamilton is one of my favorite pieces of art of the last, you know, however many decades that I've been alive. But I, yeah when he asked me to do he so it's funny so so so the person who told me to go watch paddington to my massage best friend in new york he was he was he was he was working with um with lynn he because he works on lots of people in that in that community and he and lynn one day was like hey can Andrew Garfield sing and my friend his name is Greg he said he said Andrew Garfield, can Andrew Garfield sing? He has the most beautiful voice I've ever heard. Oh, Lynn, his voice is just stunning.

The session ends. He's like, hey, Andrew, he's supposed to watch Paddington soon. He will sing his heart out. He literally finished the session with Lynn, texted me immediately. He has like, hey, Andrew, can you sing? Oh, my God, that's amazing.

He had no idea. He had no idea. And I was like, I mean, kind of? I don't know. And he was like, shit. I just told Lin-Manuel Miranda that you have the most beautiful angelic singing voice. God, why did I imagine that you just would shit? And I'm like, no, no, sorry, we'll figure this out.

We'll figure this out. So anyway, that's how it started. And then Lynn came and, you know, he saw angels and he was, he was sniffing around. And he kind of like, we had sushi and he handed me this script. He was like, this isn't going to make sense to you now, but later on it will. It was all very ceremonious. And then I learned about Jonathan Larson and that story and his life and and him as a creative and I knew about him but I didn't know him as in depth and I want to talk to you later about this in a more detailed way because like this is a this is a story that his story has become and this and the experience of making the film of tick tick boom with lynn has become a profoundly emotional and kind of sacred profound

important part of my life it was coming out of a very very difficult like period of my of my life at the end of 2019 and into the beginning of 2020 and uh we'll talk about it in a later day but but it's uh yeah but i'll say about the vulnerability of singing like i was surrounded by you know robin de jesus Vanessa huggins Joshua henry um Alex ship, these genuinely incredible fucking singers and musical theaters. I sewed it down a little bit. I mean, kind of you just spring.

I'm surrounded by the most, like, the heavonliest choir of like divine entities just making like choral sounds. And I'm like in the middle going, and then like, and Josh, and Josh Henry's like, damn, Andrew, shit. Shit, Andrew. And Roman's like, yeah.

Yeah, that's my baby. And I'm just like, guys, I'm so terrible compared to you all. No, but like I trust their opinion more than your own. But all that to be said, like the support of those people and of Lynn and of that community generally, the musical theatre people, they're just like, you know, my new favorite tribe of human beings, like the best people in the world. I can't wait. And we will have that discussion down the road.

Yeah, I would love to, yeah. I don't know how to bring up the Spider-Man stuff. because obviously I don't even want to, like, ruin anything if there is something to ruin, except to say, there isn't anything to ruin, bro. I have to just quickly just cut you off. There's nothing to ruin. Really? Like, it's so crazy to, like, just got a knot of hand.

This is all bullshit. Dude, it's fucking hilarious to me because it's like, because I do have this Twitter account and I, like, I see, like, how often, like, Spider-Man is trending. And it's, like, people freaking out about a thing. And I'm just like, guys. guys guys like i i wish i could just like be able to speak to everyone and say like i how do you just take off because you you are recommend that you chill like like listen i i can't speak for anything else apart for myself sure like like they might be doing something but then ain't none

like i ain't i ain't got a call so like okay well that makes my life easier okay no that's good that's You know what it feels like though? It feels like, because this hasn't come up yet in an interview, but like, do you ever play the game, Werewolf? No. Or Mafia? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh-huh. You know that game? I think it's kind of similar where it's like, you're convincing everyone that you're not in the mafia. Right. Like, I feel like I'm in a game of fucking Werewolf or Mafia where I'm like, I'm not the werewolf. I promise you, I am not the werewolf. And everyone's like, you're the werewolf. You're the fucking werewolf. Look at him. He's like he's doing... Okay, so for the record, my friend, on a stack of whatever you have there, you are not, as of this taping, in or have any knowledge of being in the next Spider-Man movie. I feel like, like, I feel, I feel like, haven't I just said that? You have, I just want to get really clear. I want this is the unequivocal, yes, no answer. I did not get a call.

Maybe they shot you guerrilla style, like in mainstream on the street. mainstream. Listen, listen, I would have gotten a call by now. That's what I'm saying. Okay. I don't want to, like, I don't want to rule anything out. Maybe they want to call me. Maybe they're going to call me, like, and say like, hey, people want this. Like, I don't want to, like, say. They're testing the waters. Maybe they're like, yeah, doing like a market research thing. Have you watched all of Tom's work in the other Spider-Man movies? Like, is there anything you've seen him get to do that you're like, that would have been, that would have been pretty fucking cool for me to get to play that scene or, or explore that arc. Well, first of all, I just think Tom is brilliant, and, like, emotionally, he brings such an emotional kind of beauty to what he does, tenderness and vulnerability. But also this crazy strength, like he's, there's a real strength there.

Yeah. It's like a kind of, like, an iron rod. And I really, like, of a spine, I mean. With the record, you did not need to qualify. You just dug the hole even deeper. I felt like I needed to qualify. I did this. I, um, no, so, so no, I'm trying to think of there's anything that I've seen in those films.

I mean, and I think John Watts is great. Like, and Zendaya and the, the young, the young friend actor, is it Jacob, I think. They just, it's all just a really, it's a great situation they have there. And, um, yeah, I'm trying to think of scenes, you know, there are certain things about, like, his suit that I'm jealous of. Like, he had, like, the squirrel suit with the wings and the whatever. and I'm just like, oh, you motherfucker. Like, that shit is so cool.

But yeah, and the fact that he got to hang out with The Avengers, that's cool. I guess that's pretty cool. That's cool. One other film, if you'll indulge me, I do want to mention because I'm fascinated. I'm obsessed with Jessica Chastay, and I've done a lot with her in the past,

and she's just so supremely talented. Oh, my gosh. I wouldn't necessarily have put on paper, like top five actors I would get for Jim Baker get me Andrew Garfield. Actually, I take that as a compliment. I think, yeah, I mentioned it as a compliment. Yeah, no, totally.

But it's interesting, like, I'm seeing, like, there are a lot of, you mentioned kind of the big stuff you do in mainstream, like, running around with a microphone. There's an aspect of that to Jim Baker, too. There's, like, a lot of people who are, you kind of have a spade of these kind of performative roles that are unusual. You're right. I'm just curious what the experience was playing that.

I mean, I grew up with that scandal. I just remember it all. What was that one like? Oh, God. To be honest, man, like. it was so first of all Jessica is you know a genius and just wait till you see the work that she's done in this film like she's remarkable which we all know but she does something with this that is just so intoxicating and hypnotic and like you've never seen her before

it's really remarkable so there's that and that that that that that working to work with her and and and and and also getting to work with cherry jones and um you know uh the rest of the cast it was just it was really and with and and michael show walter who i've loved since you know uh uh we're hot americans some uh and and and you know stayed and all of those kind of you know early comedy uh films that he that he was doing and i love the big sick and um so that it was and and yeah again it was like this This world that I didn't know much about, but was like, I started to research into the character and I was like, oh, this guy is so fascinating.

Like, who are you? Like, who are you? You strange, strange, fascinating creature. Tender, tender, tender seeming guy. But to be frank, finding my way into him, it was painful. There's a lot of pain that I discovered there. There's a lot of woundedness. There's a lot of terror and fear.

Like, you know, you think about the prosperity doctrine, which is the thing that he was, he kind of popularized when he started his ministry with Tammy Fay. It's, it's what we, it's kind of, it's the capitalist never enough thing that we live under now. So he was kind of a pioneer in this, this never enoughness. Yeah. And kind of monetizing the never enoughness, monetizing the emptiness, monetizing and chasing a kind of. a forever external proof that God loves you. And, you know, God wants you to have wealth. It says right here in the Bible, God wants you to be rich and God wants you to experience wealth here on earth. Like, that's just a big misreading of the original Greek. Like, wealth

the word that wealth was translated from in the original Greek has a completely different meaning and derivation. It's spiritual wealth. It's not possessions. And so it was a kind of emerging of capitalism and God that I think was, was what hadn't really been seen before. And reality television, because they were the first reality TV show family, really. Right, right. They were the first people that used the birth of a child as a, you know, and brought it out publicly and brought the baby on screen and their kids grew up on TV, which is obviously, you know, now much more of a normal thing, but we can see the damage it does still under that kind of microscopic lens. So it was just fascinating to dive into how I understood him and what the access point for me

was a man who feared his own emptiness that was it that that was in constant need of approval from some father figure projected onto his idea of God and he knew that he was succeeding in God's eyes if he had more and more money donated no matter where the money went and he and he got in over his head and he he he got greedy and there's there's there's the second scandal as well, which is more complicated than we know about. And there's, you know, talk of his, you know, latent homosexuality, which was interesting as well to think about and to explore for myself. But yeah, it's just a fascinating world and a kind of funny world as well. Like it's kind of, it's kind of visually brilliant. And but I won't lie. It was, it wasn't all that pleasure

to play the character because he he he did he I discovered that he me in the way I found my way into him wasn't in a very good place generally apart from when he was um you know making lots of money and getting and and and helping people which which which which you know he wasn't able to do as much as he wanted to he was mostly in the red and he was mostly lost and it was so it was painful on top of which prosthetics suck just simply But yeah, working with Jessica was the main kind of like... Yeah. Yeah.

Well, this is an embarrassment of riches, it sounds like, to come, even if it had some hopefully temporary psychic damage that you feel, my friend. I hope you're doing well. You seem all right. The new film mainstream, I will say, by the way, this is a film geek watching the opening titles and seeing American Zoetrope just pop up on the screen, was like, oh, this is nice. The Coppola legacy continues. That's awesome.

Pretty cool. So everybody should check out mainstream, Andrews. delivering amazing work as always. And if we were nothing else today, Paddington 3 looks more likely than Spider-Man 3, apparently for Andrew Garfield, at least at this date. Call me. Anybody can call me anytime.

It's good to see it, my friend. Thanks to see you, Josh. Take good care. Hey, guys. So as I teased earlier, we're launching a very exciting new series. This is called Happy, Sad, Confused Game Night. I know it's a very imaginative title. So this is going to be a new video series. where you'll see your very favorite HappySaid Confused regulars and me playing silly games.

We're basically just going to be making fools of ourselves for your entertainment. And you can catch it all over at patreon.com slash happy, sad, confused. Joining me now for a little tease of the shenanigans are the first game night victims or guests. Same difference. It's Sam Hewinn, Colin O'Donoghue, and Catherine McNamara. How did we get roped into this, guys? Who knows? I don't know.

What's your excuse? I've got nothing that's to do. What about you? Yeah. I think probably blackmail and whiskey are why we're all here. I've accumulated enough dirt on all of you guys over the years, and it's time to cash in. That's the secret. So do you guys have any shared?

I feel like you guys have all interacted over the social medias, which means it's like long-lasting, important friendships. Do you guys, have you guys all met in real life or just via the Twitters and the Instagrams? Well, Sam and I've met, but I don't know, Colin, I don't know if you and I've ever met in person. No, we've never met, but Sam and I've met. Have you guys gone up for the same roles, Colin and Sam? Oh, God. I don't know. I don't know, actually.

Maybe not, actually, because I was on once probably for so long. I'm not so sure. I went on to do you know what? I think I did audition for once, but I have no idea what the role was. was, but I definitely auditioned for it. It might even be your part, but my accent was terrible. So this is fascinating to dress up, because Sam, I don't know if you know this. The reason I know, Colin, is my brother created once.

So basically, we scuttled your career, Sam, early on. I put the word in and said, if that guy Sam Hewin comes in, don't even go that way. You know what? I went in on that show a couple of times. I never got the job, and you could have done me a favor, dude. Like, just giving me the part. But, well, congratulations, Colin. Well, congratulations Colin. You got the part. That's fantastic. Great. Thanks very much. And I loved it.

But we, we, we then, Colin and I, we met, uh, was it San Diego? Comic Con. Yeah, Comic-Con. And, uh, we had a wee, um, I guess it like a little Twitter flirtation, you know. But, uh, quality Twitter bands, back and forward. Where you, you, you wore kilt, which is pretty. I wore kilting and you wore eyeliner. Yeah. Still wearing it. Yeah. At least, at least three of us. have worn kilts. Kat, have you ever worn a kilt? I mean, I've worn a plaid skirt, but I don't like that count. I think that's a half point.

Okay. I do feel like Kat's the ringer in this group in that, like, she's probably accumulated the most game time over the years. You seem like a secret, like not so secret competitor. Oh, I'm very competitive when it comes to game night. In fact, one of the ways that my mafia group got through quarantine was doing Zoom Mafia every single week. And then we started dressing up and it became a whole thing.

We did theme night as a whole situation. Yeah, we're all screwed guys. We made a horrible that was fake here. Are you doing the voices that? Do we all have to do voices now? Or Kat is being a trooper for us. I don't want to. Some plugs before we get into the main event,

because you guys always have a ton of stuff going on. Cat, I feel like even since the last time I spoke to you, like six new projects, people can check out the stand, which is streaming internationally on stars. You've got Trust, which is available to rent and VOD. You've got Untitled Horror Movie, which is the actual title of the movie. Let's be clear. That premieres on June 12th.

Colin has, of course, the right stuff, which is on Disney Plus, and we can look forward to another installment of Troll Hunters coming soon to Netflix. And Sam Hewain is basically Oprah Winfrey. He's got every revenue stream going. He's got Men and Kiltz, the book, the TV show, the Ice Show, What am I missing, Sam? I'm going to do an interview with Kate, Megan Markle and Harry, and everyone else.

You might as well try it, yeah. Is Men and Kilt Season 2 a done deal? Are we going to get more of this? I hope so, yeah. In fact, I've got a pitch for it tomorrow, so let's hope it goes well. Amazing. Depends if I win this or not.

Right, it's all riding on this. All right, are you guys ready to play some silly games? Let's play it. Yeah. All right, guys, listening out there, remember to go to Patreon.com, Happy, Seth, Confused. The link is also in the show notes of this episode, and we'll all see you there. American history is full of infamous tales that continue to captivate audiences, decades, or even hundreds of years after they happened.

On the infamous America podcast, you'll hear the true stories of the Salem Witch Trials and the escape attempts from Alcatraz, of bank robbers like John Dillinger and Pretty Boy Floyd, of killers. like Lizzie Borden and Charles Starkweather, of mysteries like the Black Dahlia and D.B. Cooper, and of events that inspired movies like Goodfellas, Killers of the Flower Moon, Zodiac, Eight Men Out, and many more. I'm Chris Wimmer. Join me as we crisscross the country from the Miami Drug Wars and Dixie Mafia in the South, to mobsters in Chicago and New York, to arsonists, kidnappers and killers in California, to unsolved mysteries in the heartland and in remote corners of Alaska. episode features narrative writing and cinematic music, and there are hundreds of episodes available to binge. Find infamous America, wherever you get your podcasts.