Happy Sad Confused - Andrew Rannells

Episode Date: January 23, 2019

You know him from Broadway ("The Book of Mormon") and TV ("Girls") and now you can add author to Andrew Rannell's list of credits! Andrew joins Josh to talk about his new memoir and his new Showtime series, "Black Monday".  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

D.C. high volume, Batman. The Dark Nights definitive DC comic stories adapted directly for audio for the very first time. Fear, I have to make them afraid. He's got a motorcycle. Get after him or have you shot. What do you mean blow up the building? From this moment on,

none of you are safe. New episodes every Wednesday, wherever you get your podcasts. Today on Happy Say I Confused, Andrew Rannels on his new show, Black Monday, and a new memoir, Too Much is Not Enough. Hey, guys, Josh Horowitz here. Welcome to another edition of Happy Say I Confused. Thanks so much, as always, for checking us out, guys. And thanks for checking out today's guest, Mr. Andrew Rannels. He, of course, you know him. from his extraordinary work on stage, Book of Mormon, falsettos, most recently in the boys in the band on Broadway, which I was privileged enough to check out. And also his television work, you know, he was on girls, of course. He's now in the new Showtime series, Black Monday, which stars him alongside Don Sheetle, from the minds of Seth Rogan and Evan Goldberg, a very entertaining new show on Showtime that you guys should check out.

And he's also, he's one of those guys that sort of like touches every aspect of media. He's been in feature films, a simple favor most recently. The intern alongside Anne Hathaway and Robert De Niro. He is a quadruple threat, an actor, a singer, a dancer, and now an author. This podcast is a conversation about all of these things. And I should mention that, like, the book that we talk about, and really it's not talking about the book so much as his life because the book is a memoir. The book is called Too Much is Not Enough. And I was lucky enough to get a sneak piece.

at it. It's not out till March. So this is almost kind of a sneak peek of what's in there. But you can definitely pre-order it, go on Amazon or wherever, and pre-order it. And I do recommend it. It's not your typical kind of showbiz memoir. It's a book about the struggles on the way to stardom and achievement. It literally is his life ending with his Broadway debut in hairspray. But it's very entertaining, very open and frank about. his life growing up in Omaha, his relationship with his parents, his romantic relationships, his coming out to his parents, the death of his father. I mean, there's a lot of like serious stuff in there, but it's always done with a light touch, with sincerity and emotion and honesty. And I

definitely recommend it. So too much is not enough is Andrew's new memoir coming out in March. Check it out. And in the meantime, you can enjoy him in Black Monday, which is this crazy kind of new um dromedy i guess you would say it's a make there's definitely drama there's definitely definitely comedy in there takes place in the year leading up to the infamous stock market crash of 87 um the wild 80s depicted in new york in the financial world so check that out what else to talk about well there's the oscar nominations i mean we should mention that for a second since i've talked to so many of the nominees here on happy say i confused in the

past year and years on this podcast um you know what Was I happy? Were any of us that happy? I don't know. I was happy for some things. I mean, I think there was some nice surprises. I like that Spike Lee got in there for director for Black Klansmen. I mean, that film suddenly has a lot of momentum and could even take Best Picture, which was not necessarily the case even a week ago. I think people didn't think that people didn't think that think that's disappointed that our buddy Timothy Chalmay, who seemed to be a lock for supporting actor nomination, was going to get in there. I do think it's kind of crazy that the Bradley Hooper didn't get a directing nomination. That being said, he's got three other nominations as an actor as a I guess as a writer and producer I think I know he has three Oscar nominations this year so

don't shed too many tears for Bradley but it also does seem a little weird that a star is born didn't get acknowledged for the work behind the camera because I think I definitely think he deserved it

so that's a bummer for him but like I said not worth our tears probably but yeah it'll be it'll be a good show I don't know this was a weird year in filmmaking

we're celebrating. And it's certainly a weird, eclectic group of films that's being honored. But you know, Black Panther, we've got to mention that too. That the superhero curse at the Oscars is over. This is the first superhero film ever nominated

for Best Picture. And that is a huge breakthrough, as is the fact that the first streaming film is nominated for Best Picture. Roma leading the way with 10 nominations alongside the favorite. Also got 10 nominations. So a lot of interesting storylines to follow as we

head into the last month plus of award season and then it all concludes with the hostless Oscars at the end of February. Kind of weird, but I'll be watching. So, anyway, that's my take on the Oscars in two minutes or less. I'm off to

the Sundance Film Festival as I tape this as of tomorrow. So by the time you hear this, I'll probably be in Snowy Park City, Utah, talking to tons of folks for MTV. So please do, follow me along on social media, Joshua Horowitz, on Instagram and Twitter. I'll post all of our content there. You can also just go to MTV News' YouTube page or follow their socials. We're going to post

a ton of content. I think by my last count, I'm talking to 15 or 16 different casts. That's not 15 or 16 people. That's 15 or 16 groups of people. So it's going to be a busy week in Park City. I'm psyched to see a lot of new films, talk to some familiar faces and some new face. And Park City is always a shot on the arm. Sundance is always like a blast because it really kind of revs up right as as as the celebration of the year before is ending. It's nice to have Sundance to kind of push us into the new year into 2019 to celebrate all that is new and fresh and unique about the year to come. So that's that's on my docket. I hope you guys follow along. And I hope you guys enjoy today's conversation on Happy Say I Confused with Andrew Rapp. Once again, check out Black Monday on Sundays, on Showtime, and look out for his memoir, Too Much is Not Enough. Here's Andrew. Welcome to my weird little office.

But thank you for having me into your weird office. I'm really enjoying your office. I feel very at home here. Good. That's a good sign, I think. Yes. I'm a great fan of your work. Thank you.

I've been reveling in all things Andrew Ranels the last few days. Thanks to your team. TV show, your book, which I've been enjoying. Oh, thank you. Thank you for reading it. I've been able to, I'm one of the lucky few that's got a sneak peek at this. Well, that's very nice. So, congratulations. Thank you very much.

You have, you're like one of those multi-hyphenates. Actor, author, singer, dancer. Mm-hmm. Is that it? Yeah. Any others that we should add to the list? No, that's it. I think that's it's it.

That's your entire skill set? I mean, that's probably my entire skill set. Home organizer? Okay. Yes. How would you rank those skills, those first four of them? But I feel like I'm always going to be, I'll be an actor first. But I have to say, I really enjoyed writing this book, and I really enjoyed the process of writing.

Yeah. Yeah, I'm excited to do more. I'm excited to do more. And you had been writing before. You've done some short-form stuff, right? Yes, I've written a few essays. And actually, I had this deal at Universal, the screenplay deal, through Judd Apatow. And we worked on a couple scripts that, like, we just, I'll be honest, we just couldn't land on tonally something. that I felt good about and that he felt good about. So that ended up just sort of going to the Hollywood Graveyard. But then this book, when the book came about, it really did feel much more organic.

And it felt more natural for me to be writing in that way. Like the screenplay thing, I always had sort of a hard time cracking a little bit. But writing in this essay form felt very good to me. So there's a lot to cover, thanks to my newfound knowledge of your wife. to your book. I mean, I knew the broad strokes, but now I know some particulars. You probably know more than you need to know. No, no. I put it pretty frank and open, and I appreciate that about it, and I think people will. But I appreciated it on a number of levels because, well, it kind of ends where a lot would start, I feel like. Yeah. And I think that's

the point of it, right, is like, you know, you've talked in interviews and you talk in the book a little bit about sort of the glossy kind of bio in a playbill. Yes. And how that is not the sum of your parts? No, no. Those are the high. highlights and it's the stuff in between that really probably defines you much more 100% yeah um so i mean i don't know talk to me about like sort of what the process was like i mean you are you seem to be an open and frank person in the book was it like did it come naturally yeah i felt like there was no other way to do it i felt like if i was going to do it i certainly wasn't going to soft pedal anything or sort of leave out details i mean there were you know there's certainly uh sensitivity i think

and I had the benefit of having a piece published in the New York Times in the Modern Love section. So I kind of got some insight as to what publishing an entire book was going to look like. Because, you know, there are questions asked, and there are people, my family had feelings. Families are feelings. My friends, you know, remembered things maybe in a different way or had questions about how things went down. And so it was a good, that was sort of good preparation for what this was going to be like. I will say, I'm impressed with nothing else, your memory. Because I feel like I remember, I feel like I have like knowledge of like the posters in this office and no memory of my childhood.

Well, you know what's weird about that is that focusing on that particular time, it was very clear to me. And as I continue to write now sort of moving into the next phase of my life, a lot of the details I'm a little hazy on, I got to say. like things I'm conflating years or months and like to sort of it's it's odd that it's much clear in my mind when I was younger right and then I don't know if it's just because I was drinking more I don't know maybe I was just going out more with those people at that time of my life that like it's some of the details are a little hazy well there are a few years generally speaking that do some I mean like I've talked about this a lot in the past like the guests on here when we talk about kind of like pop culture references and things we grew up with it's It does seem like there are those formative years is really, like, when you're a sponge from like 12 to 17 and like, or maybe even 10 to 15, I don't even know, somewhere around there where it's like that's when you're defining your pop culture taste. And I feel like I lost a whole chunk of pop culture time when I moved to New York, like in the late 90s and even the early 2000s.

Like I wasn't watching television. Just because you were hustling trying to make a living. I was like living my life. I was like out. I wasn't watching TV. So there were things that sort of happened. and then I sort of caught up too later, but I was not watching in real time

because I was a young person in New York who was like, I'm not staying in. You were living. I'm going out. I cannot relate anymore, sorry. So there's like a chunk of pop culture that's sort of missing from my vocabulary. So going back even further.

So you grew up in Omaha, which like to like, I grew up here in New York. So like to like, where's that? Exactly. Like evil like, you know, jaded like New Yorkers. It's like, that's a punchline. In a stand-up set, that's not a real place. That can't be real.

Exactly. So what are, like, the three things I need to understand that define what Omaha is, and make it tangible for me, in other words. Okay. Probably the easiest inn is that Omaha is the big city of Nebraska. Okay. So growing up in Omaha, I never felt like I was, like, a farm kid. Right.

Or I was from the city. Yeah, you weren't from Smallville with, like, pot kent nearby. No, so they were gangs and hookers, and, like, they were. There was like, you know, things. Oh, cool stuff. Yeah, cool stuff. You know, cool stuff for kids. And, um, but it felt like we were like in a city.

And it wasn't until years later when I went to New York for the first time that I was like, oh, no, this is a city. Okay. But you grow up in a way that doesn't seem very, like I wasn't, um. You weren't wanting for more. No, I thought that we were, yeah, that we were living the big city life. Yeah. I guess.

Yeah. So that's the one thing. Um, and there's also like a, uh, I think of Midwestern people, I think, you assume that everybody's like very friendly and very nice and like is really, but there's also like this strange undercurrent of like, I don't know, I was raised with a very dark sense of humor and there's a sort of jadedness or at least a chip on your shoulder. I remember particularly moving to New York when I was like, all these people think they're so special that they're from here. Fuck you guys. At the same time, I fit in. Yeah, yeah, look at me.

has happened so fast. Yeah. So there's a universal, yeah, jadedness. Right. Are there other notable actors that have come out of? I mean, I think I was under pain. Sure, I was interpain. Well, when you go back, like, if you really go back, so there's the Fonda's.

Oh, okay. Henry Fonda and Dorothy McGuire, they're from, they're from Omaha. Marlon Brando was born in Omaha. Oh. It's in the water, then, okay. And then, like, more recently, it's like, you know, me and Brian Greenberg. and why am I blanking on names now? Connor DeLis, Dale DeLewis, Gabrielle Union.

There's like a handful. Okay. Is this a secret handshake you guys all share? Adam Devine. Oh, Adam Devine? Yeah, Adam Devine, although now Adam Devine's family, they moved out of Nebraska, so I don't think he's coming back. But when I was home for Thanksgiving,

Adam and I were in the Omaha airport at a bar called, cranky McGee's, I think, or Cracky McGee's, something like that. Both sound fun. Just at this weird airport bar, just like having some drink before our flights. I could see you playing family members in a film. Yeah, yeah. It's funny, we did that movie The Intern Together, but

we didn't have anything together. We were never, like, in scenes together. But then we did all of our press together. We did our junkets together, and it was really fun because he's just a, he's a silly guy. So you were talking before, like, the notion of New York wasn't, like, I got to escape my podunk town to get to New York, but at the same time, was there an image through

pop culture, through friends and family of New York that made you want to get there eventually? Sure. Well, Broadway was here, so I knew that that's what I needed to, I needed to be in New York to be a part of Broadway. And that's what I wanted. That's what I wanted more than anything. So, like, that was, I think, the thing that was sort of driving me to get here was that I just wanted to be close to that.

I wanted to be, you know, and even when I first moved here, I was living in Brooklyn Heights and in this dorm, but I would still just, like, wander around the theater district because I just wanted to be close to it. I wanted to be near where that stuff was happening. Are you able to, now that you are a full-fledged New Yorker in heaven for some time, to still appreciate in your, some moments that, like, you know, I'm at the place where I always dreamed I was going to be.

Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's overwhelming at times. I had a moment just recently where we had our Black Monday billboards up in Times Square next to a Book of Mormon billboard that is still me, even though I left that show many years ago. But it's still my picture next to that I had like these two huge billboards in Times Square that were made that I was very humbled and very excited by. So you talk about the obsession or falling in love with Broadway and musicals. I would think, I mean, that's not the first thing you do. a kid. I mean, the first thing were probably just movies generally, right? Yeah, movies generally, but

musicals. Yeah, my dad introduced me to like MGM musicals. Yeah. So that's mostly, that's most of what I want. And then that sort of led to newer movie musicals, and then that, my mother suggests I watch the Tony Awards one year. So, I mean, I did watch a ton of movies and a lot

of television as a kid, but the musical aspect of it was really something that sort of plow, you know, drove through that, that. So what were they, if you had or would have had movie posters or personalities on your walls? Who are they? Well, when I was maybe

in the third grade, I bought a bunch of movie posters that was Casablanca, Rebel Without a Cause, The Wizard of Oz, and Gone with a Wind. Classic, I mean, highbrow taste for a third grader. Those were the posters that were in my... Batship Potempton. I know, right? Why isn't that in there? Now, Voyager.

No, but those yeah, those were my posters. That's amazing. I've had quite the attention. span as a kid. Those are long movies. They're long movies. I had never seen Gone with the wind. I had never seen. I didn't see that until I was probably 19 or 18. But the rest of them, yeah, I really like, I mean, you know, my dad was, that was one thing that we bonded over very early was this sort of like love of movies and he would let me watch things that I probably shouldn't have been watching. That's the best way. Yeah. I remember him like, I remember watching

a mini series with him in the 80s about the, it was called The Murder of Mary Fagan. It was a true story. But a young girl who was raped and murdered, and then the wrong man was accused. It's a heartbreaking story. Jack Lemon was in it, I think. I missed the age of a network in many series. Wait, it's a musical now. It's called Parade. Oh, really?

Yeah. And, or this was a long time ago that came out. But yeah, he let me watch that whole thing. And I was like, what? And he was like, not only had to explain to me like how she was murdered, but then also what rape was. It was like a second grader. I was like, I'm sure my mother was thrilled. that my father was explaining this to me.

Now that you mentioned that, there was dark stuff as a kid even those network miniseries. It was like the day after. Did you ever see that? I don't know if I remember that one. Well, I remember Red Dawn with Patrick Swayze

and Jennifer Gray and everybody. Yeah, the Russians literally invaded us. When they invade the school and just shoot up a high school for no reason. It's dark. And my grade school, a playground was sort of set up like that

that I was like, oh, helicopters could easily land and shoot right into my classroom. That fucked me up. Yeah. That movie terrified me. Charlie Sheen has this tearful goodbye with Harry Dean Stanton at like a fence. Yes. And then Jennifer Gray blows herself up to save the lives of others.

Jennifer Gray would do that. She's a hero in our times. She's a hero. She's a hero. And then it's Patrick Swayze being Patrick Quasie. I was just sort of flipping wide roadhouse the other day on TV. That's one of those that I've always got to stop and watch. Dirty dancing, I will stop whatever I'm doing and watch that.

Right. Roadhouse is great. Before the kids these days, it's not even, I was going to say. the notebook, the notebook's even like a generation ago now I feel like. But Roadhouse is like, that's a tough one. Roadhouse, I confess, I don't know if I've ever watched it straight through. Somehow,

I should have. I should have seen it a thousand times. There's very scandalous sex scenes in there, particularly as a child. Like, they show his ass a lot. Like, that was, it was like, seemed very dangerous. I've heard this story. It's how I learned you could have sex standing up. Right. He and Kelly

he and Kelly Lynch have sex standing up and I was like, huh? Yeah. Yeah. Bill Murray likes to tell the story where he calls his friend Mitch Glazer, who's married to Kelly Lynch. Every time he sees Roadhouse on, it's like, I'm seeing your wife right now. Just getting railed by Patrick Swayze. Classy guy that Bill Murray. RIP. I know. I know. He's a good guy. So, okay, so there was growing up, as I understand, yes, there's no segue. No segue. That's what I should call this podcast. No sidglaze.

Children's theater. Children's theater. In the neighborhood. Lots of that. Stayed in the neighborhood. Smooth transition. Come on. I'm trying my best. No, that, yes, that is how that happened. Going on getting railed to the children's theater. I mean, look, it was all happening at the same time. Let's be honest.

If we're just doing a snapshot of the 90s, that's what was going on. So, yeah, that's around the time I started doing a lot of children's theater. So were you, were you, like, a big personality as a kid? I think of child actors being, like, just big personalities. No, I think I sort of, I was one of those kids. I mean, maybe in some ways. I'm probably not the best person to ask. But I think that I was one of those people that sort of had a surprising personality on stage,

that people didn't expect me to be as energetic or as have any kind of personality. I think I was pretty quiet for a long time. And it wasn't until I was like got into high school and got a little more comfortable with myself and was also like doing more shows, like dinner theaters and community theater and doing that stuff. That then I became more confident in that. I want to hear everything there is to know about dinner theater. About dinner theater? I really do, because I'm fascinating.

It's such a weird concept. You grew up in the city? Yeah. So I probably against that I'm anxious. No, I mean, I got my equity card at a theater in Westchester, the Westchester Broadway Dinner Theater. And everybody was so, like, horrified who was in that show. But I had grown up doing dinner theater. So the first professional job I had was at the Firehouse Dinner Theater doing on Golden Pond.

And I was 12 years old. Playing all the roles. playing all the one man show by one man on golden pond watch that um and that so it was totally normal to me that like people would be eating vegetable lasagna while you're doing a scene like that was normal so it must be just a luxury nowadays when you're doing broadway and people are actually paying attention yeah well yeah sometimes some real i've been seeing a lot of theater recently and i'll say that theater etiquette has really gone by the fucking wayside really like people just behave like animals yeah and i'm not i'm trying not to be like the

the, you know, school, the monitor of, like, manners in the theater. But I do find myself, like, speaking to people and being like, please don't do that. Do you, okay, this is jumping around. We'll jump back to the dinner theater. But, like, when you've been on stage, are you one of those actors that's ever broken the fourth wall when you've seen something and given someone the business? No, I mean, I'm, no. I love those stories, by the way, when it's like, Patty Lepone, like getting some of shit.

Yeah. No, I think the most we did, we happened, it happened the summer during boys in the band that a phone rang for a while, and I think everyone instinctually just held on stage for a second. as if to draw attention to it and also shame the person but also not be completely unprofessional so we'd know one was like broke character per se but I think everyone

just sort of held for a moment and let's just this ring go off and then we'll continue with the show but it is very frustrating that so okay so dinner theater eating and art eating and art so okay so it was all you knew at the time it wasn't unusual no

it didn't seem unusual at all Yeah, because my only memory of dinner theater growing up Was watching, did you ever see Soap Dish? Sure, hell, yeah. What he's doing, Death of a Salesman? I mean, and there is an element of truth to that That people do choke, people do, you know, I remember having to, like, stop

Because some woman choked during a show one time It was like, while doing West Side Story, someone was gagging on, you know, a brownie Sunday. So we had to, like, hold the show. And that is a, yeah, that is a part of it. Yeah. I love that movie so much. I do, too.

I was obsessed. That was actually, for Black Monday. day when we started working on like costumes and looks and it was a lot of Robert Downey Jr. Even though the timing wasn't exactly right, but the look, I was like, I need those glasses, I need that. Like that's sort of the vibe. Him and James Spader. I was like, let's, some Michael J.

Foxx. That's in there a little bit. But like, yeah, those were the two, three big ones. This is probably one of the few shows where you probably don't want to steal the wardrobe. Definitely not. Definitely not. Although it's funny. A funny thing happens when you do these period pieces that, um,

you do find yourself getting used to looking a certain way. Right. And while we were filming the show, I then, like, randomly bought, like, these very high-wasted, pleaded Hugo Boss pants that I got and wore once. And somebody was like, are those something that's set? Are you like, I was like, oh, fuck. Damn it. I can't tell a difference anymore. I started doing it. I've started dressing like it. I'm starting Coke in public now. It's just all the wheels have come off. It's terrible. You talk. Okay. No Segways. Podcast.

The guest continues. So your father's dead. I don't seem to go that far. But, okay, we're following your chronology. This is dinner theater back home. This is Omaha, right? So you also talk frankly and openly about the book. There's a lot about your sex life in there.

You talk about coming out to your parents and them not necessarily being so surprised. I mean, was there still anxiety? I mean, that's a big moment for anybody, obviously. Even if you have parents that are going to be supportive. No, there was definitely anxiety. I think my dad was very. very much of the mindset that it was a choice

that I was choosing to be gay. And then about a year later, he said to me, I was home from college and he was like, I have been thinking about this and it's definitely not a choice because when you were about four, you wanted to be a solid gold dancer. And he was like, and I remembered that. And then I was like, oh, you know what?

I guess he was. He was just trying to tell us back then who he was. So I'm happy that my father came to that conclusion on his own. My mother took the more sort of, I think, typical mother's stance, which is she didn't want my life to be harder than it needed to be. And she was also worried for my safety. And to her, not defense, but, you know, Matthew Shepard was murdered within the year that I came out. Right.

So here she has a son who's roughly the same age, who's away at college, who kind of even looks like him. Right. And I think that was really hard for her to wrap her head around that I was like, in New York City and also this had just happened somewhere. So like, is that, is that going to happen to you? Are you going to be safe? Are you going to be okay? Probably no place is actually safer.

Yeah, honestly, yeah. But I think that was a big. But those were the two big, you know, I think they're big reactions. But everybody was very supportive, I got to say. Did, in growing up, did you have, like, role models, like, if and when you kind of like started to, like, come aware of your own sexuality when you were looking at the arts and said, okay, there's a path for me for a young gay actor to not be defined by that and to have all that you wanted out of a career or no.

Not really. Yeah. I mean, I got to say. I got to say, yeah, there was not, there weren't really, I mean, there was the sort of one-off actors that would, like the Rupert Everett's that popped up for a second. And that's not, you know, he talks about it very openly that he feels like that really did affect his career. but that was a very sort of inspiring moment

to have somebody who was actually willing to say that and come out publicly. But no, I didn't really have anybody specifically with the whole picture in mind. That came much later. So I think what I was more focused on was just professionally, you know, because again, I wanted to be a musical theater actor.

I was focusing on, you know, actors like Jonathan DeCuchitz, who's in The Who's Tommy and Brian Darcy James, who's in Titanic. I was focusing on like that's the type of thing that I want to. Those are the roles that I want to play. But in terms of incorporating a personal life into it, that didn't happen for a long time. Is part of the reason why you're like so frank and open about like, you know, the sex life too also in the book to kind of tell the story to young men or women and sort of see like, you know, I mean, it can apply to heterosexuals

too. It's not unique to whatever. But like, you know, we all have our sorted mistakes in a romantic past and you own up to yours. yeah um yeah did you find that cathartic was that like for yourself or for other people you feel like to write about that stuff well i feel like within my group of friends i all we all speak very openly about these things so it's no i'm not sort of squeamish about sharing those details and as i was writing this book and sort of keeping an eye on who might be reading it and um wanting to be honest i just felt like if if i wanted it to sound like me then it needed to sound like me and i needed to talk about the things that i normally talk about so and yes to your point of like

I did want to own up to some of those mistakes because ultimately they weren't all mistakes and they sort of lead you to where you're supposed to be anyway and that there's no shame in that. I feel like there's so much shame around sex and making choices and that everything has to be special or perfect and it's not. It's not all special and perfect.

It's impossible that it would be. So I guess I just wanted to share that a little more openly just to say that like there's no harm there as long as everybody is okay and there were certainly moments in my past where I was not okay and I was put in positions that I was not happy to be in but um sadly that happens too and there's a way out and there's a way through and I feel like that's um was all part of the was all part of my story so and luckily now you're you're perfect you have no problems so I have no problems have to have a little dry mouth so I'm gonna have one of my Tiny little waters. Let me have a tiny water. Yeah, no, everything's perfect now. Including your wonderful new show. Look at that.

That was a segue. I did it. I'm getting better. I'm getting better. You did it. I feel like there's an air of condescension and you did it. Not at all.

That's how I sound. Okay, good. Black Monday. Okay, so we alluded to it a little bit. Let's just get in. Get some nuts and bolts out of the way. So a really fun, you know, snapshot of a time when the market crashed, a huge crash, the huge crash

of 87, and this is like kind of the year leading up, it's an ensemble, it's you, it's Don Cheadle, it's a whole mess of amazing people. So great, yeah. Were you looking for another series? Were you... I kind of was looking for another series. That was appealing, that kind of thing?

Yeah, I really liked it because I got accustomed, while working on girls that I was able, I was very lucky that I could film a season of girls and then maybe do like, you know, a small part in a movie and then do a show on Broadway, like, you know, either, you know, be it a replacing in something or, you know, a revival that doesn't take as long to develop.

So I really liked that, the life that I had doing that. So I was looking for another series. And this one came up sort of as girls was wrapping up. Seth Rogen and Evan Goldberg brought it to my attention and thought that they were like, I think this is a good project for us to work on. and it took a while to come together. I mean, yeah, I was attached to it for quite some time. And, you know, luckily in that time I did Boys in the Band and I did falsettos and then did, you know, Paul Feig's movie A Simple Favorite.

Like, there were things that fit into that time, but I waited. I had to be, I had to be patient. And then once it all came together and Don was attached and Regina came in, like, then it all moved very quickly. But it was a good, again, a good lesson. of just being patient because I knew that I knew this was the script that I wanted to do

and this was the world and the story that I wanted to tell but yeah I had to be patient I mean I would imagine like many things you know

I end up talking on this podcast about it's like it's about tone it's about finding like the right key like to me I mean I've only seen

the first episode it's like you know of that time period I always think of you know Oliver Stone's Wall Street and it definitely feels like it's like

this is like the black comedy version in a way there's definitely a drama and a mystery I also have a robot butler. I love that.

That made me happy. It just made me happy. I hope there's a scene at some point with somebody on a beach with a giant cell phone. Kyle comes around. Yeah, Kyle, the robot butler. He's there.

These are like the touchstones I didn't even realize I needed to see. It was actually very comforting. And there you are. Yeah. It was very comforting watching as much, you know, as many movies as I did as a kid to then be in those clothes

and be in the, you know, smoking a cigarette and like a, you know, doctor's office or whatever. Like I was like, oh, it's the 80s. like, I'm really here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm really. Is there an 80s consultant on set? Are there, is there, or is everybody's an 80s consultant?

We were all at the right age, yeah, that it was pretty easy to figure out. I mean, one of, like, the technical thing was, like, there was, like, some slang issues. Like, if we improvised certain slang or certain, there's, like, you can't say anybody's woke yet. You can't say woke. Yeah, but just that was a funny thing to get into, be like, did more people saying that then? Is that a thing we can say? Yeah. Does that seem too contemporary?

Yeah. And you shot all the entire season, I would imagine by now. Yes. I finished the whole thing. It was pretty fast and furious. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, okay, so in terms of, it's interesting because, like, you know, you're, arguably your great successes have been on stage, like thus far, right?

I mean, that's fair to say. And by the way, I saw boys in the band. I loved it. Oh, thank you. I actually ran into Zachary on my way down here today. Okay, out. So apparently I'm seeing all of you guys today. Who's next?

Matt Bowmer. Bomer. I'll be lurking around a corner. Look out. Showering like he did in the show. Everybody's staring at his bum. Oh, Christ. I mean, so annoying.

It was really jarring. For all of us. It's really upsetting. It's a pretty, pretty guy. He is. He's a living Ken doll, but, I mean, at least he's got the talent to back it up. I mean, there are moments where, you know, you look at Matt and you're like, I remember saying to Jim Parsons, like, how is that a man? And I'm a man.

Do we have the same genes? Like, how is that work? You, you, I can buy. Me, not so much, but whatever. So I guess my point is, okay, so like, obviously, again, again, I know we're jumping all around, but Book of Mormon. took off like a rocket ship in the days and weeks and year after that did you like have a sense of what to do or what you wanted to make out of that or what the path was because that's the that's the kind of role any actor in your position probably dreams of yeah and then it's like

what next now what well i mean i'll be honest with you i in the back of my mind uh had uh i knew if I was ever presented with this that opportunity that there was a certain like list of things that I should do yeah um mainly based on watching Christian Chenoweth do it so Christian Chenoweth was in your good man Charlie brown right she had this killer Tony performance that then got her a development deal at NBC she made her show it didn't continue past a season but she did that and then was able to parlay it into like more TV gigs and some movies and came back to Broadway and I remember looking at her specifically and thinking, okay, so if you get the moment, this is what you do with it.

You've really got to act fast because there's no time. And part of it sort of, you know, so it was no, I can't say it wasn't a surprise because we were getting so much attention that Josh and I were going to be given some opportunities that normally don't come from Broadway shows. But it became very clear, very quickly that like, when Hollywood starts coming to Broadway, it's a very different ballgame. So then all of a sudden I was being invited out to Los Angeles to meet with people, and that led to a show on NBC that was also canceled.

You know, it's like it's strange that I picked that path by then it happened. I did it to myself. So I think it was NBC that she was on. I'm pretty positive. That sounds right, yeah. But in the meantime, this show called Girls came up, Which nobody, Lena Dunham was this sort of wonderkin writer who, you know, had made this movie at Sundance and everybody was freaking out about it. And so when that, I got an offer, you know, to play this part on the show, nobody really knew what it was.

So it was kind of like the wild card. It was like I shot it in a day. They had me come back and do one more day and another episode and then another day. And like it was this thing that was like nobody knew what it was going to be. And it was sort of crazy, that it was all kind of happening at the same time that I was doing the Book of Mormon. And then by the time it aired, it was then very clear that, like, that is going to be the big deal. Yeah. That was it.

Yeah. Best laid plans, I guess, right? So how long, what were you and Josh doing Book of Mormon for? We did it for almost a year and a half. Yeah. That's a run. That's a real run. It was a real run, yeah.

But we both got these pilots and then shot our pilots, came back. and did the show some more. They got picked up the same week, and then we left the same week. You mentioned Hollywood kind of, like, came calling. Like, I would imagine every night at a certain point, it started to, like, who was going to come backstage? Yeah, it was pretty crazy. What are the ones that stick out for you?

Oprah. Oprah's a real big one. And generally, did you like to be told beforehand, or really was, like, a nice surprise at the end of the night? We were so, I mean, I can only speak for myself. I was so unprofessional. that at a certain point in the show because a lot of it was sort of presentational that we were looking at the audience

as we were performing. And the bleed of delight went back pretty far and it's not a huge theater to start with. So you'd see people and then we'd look on stage and be like, oh my God, James Franco's here. Or like, look at that, Seth Brogan. Like we could see pretty clearly.

Right. I mean, I remember Catherine Heigel smoking her e-cigarette in the center of the something I can't unsee. That's going to be the last thing in your mind's eye before you die. Yeah, Anna Wintour with her sunglasses on. Like, there was a lot of things going on.

Hillary Clinton and Nana Rodham and Chelsea Clinton all came and sat in a row together. Like, those were crazy evenings. Amazing. Hugh Jackman. That was a good one with Nicole Kidman. That was super fun. Just another night. Yeah.

Did any, like, lasting relationships come out of just people that became, that were fans of years and came backstage that, like, did it? I'm close with John Hamm now, and that's where we met was, during the Book of Mormon. And then that sort of continued into L.A. He was a very cool, also Midwestern guy. Right. Who I think, you know, was very helpful and it was very open about sort of what that is.

So then all of a sudden, having worked for a long time and then having like overnight success is what kind of a mind trip that is. Yeah, he could probably write the book on that. Yeah. So he's been very helpful, but that sort of came from there. I forced a relationship with Judith Light. Whether you like it or not, we're friends now. We're friends now, lady. Bernadette Peters, made that happen.

Wouldn't let her go until she gave me her phone number. Like, there are things like that. I mean, why not? You've got to take advantage. Those kind of things don't happen very often. There was, I feel like I can tell this story now because of things that have happened. But there was a night where Josh and I were, our dressing rooms were next to each other. They were very small.

And there was a knock at our door. And we, like, both of our doors, and we opened up our doors to our dressing room. and it was Goldie Hahn, Joel Schumacher, and Kevin Spacey. And they were not together. They all individually came up. Right. But then worked their way into, like, my dressing room. So Josh and I were still changing, and we were standing there trying to, like, entertain Goldie Hawn, Joel Schumacher, and Kevin Spacey.

And Kevin Spacey said to me, in a very small room, smaller than this office, we should have dinner sometime. And Joel Schumacher looked at me and very loudly said, do not go out with that man. That's amazing. So I was like, all right, well, there's the advice. There we go. What was Kevin's expression? I did not go out with that one. Everybody laughed.

It was like, yeah. But don't. No, seriously, don't. Don't do it. I didn't do it. I didn't do it. Always. It's what I've always said.

Always listen to Joel Schoenocker. I'm like, man, knows things. He does. He knows things. So that just gives you the little of the craziness of that show, that time. Yeah. And all that kind of stuff is the next memoir, presumably. But what's fun about, again, jumping around, but like, and I alluded to this before,

is the book is about sort of like the stuff in between and even before your Broadway debut. But I'm also fascinated by the fact that you've said, like, even post your Broadway debut and hairspray, you were, you were temping. You, like, had odd jobs. Yeah, yeah. It doesn't, it turns out, yeah, it doesn't, that money that I thought was so huge in that moment at working on Broadway did not stretch in Manhattan as long as I thought it would. Like, I thought I had saved enough. And my contract ended rather abruptly after, like, a year and a half of being in

Hairspray, where they just, you know, it's a long-running show, so they switch up contracts. And after nine months of playing Link Larkin, it was time for someone else to do it. And so I found myself unemployed very unexpectedly. And, yeah, I had to temp, and I had to, like, go away and do very sort of sad regional theater jobs that I was like, how do I, how will I ever get back to Broadway? What was the thing in the Finger Lakes? I went to school in the Finger Lakes. Where did you go into Hobart? Okay. This was an Auburn. Okay, I don't even know. I did a production of Miss Saigon at the Marygo Round Theater. Oh, that's legendary, that production. That production. We had half a helicopter.

Seriously? Yeah. It's just half. It was just half. Um, but I wanted to do that show and I wanted to go to the Finger Lakes. What? It's a beautiful region wineries. Yeah, yeah. A lot of fruit wine. A lot of fruit wine. I'll take Napa next time. Yeah, I think they have like a nice re-sling. I think they do better with...

A one particular wine? Yes, there's some nice sweet wines that they're good at. Were you ever recognized, like, when you were doing, like, a job in between shows? Yeah. Yeah, I was recognized from hairspray. This woman was like, oh, I just took my kids to see that. And here I was doing, like, weekend temp work, which was really soul-crushing. It's got it.

Beyond even soul-crushing, it's a bit of a... mind fuck too because you're going like from like standing o's in a theater living the dream and then it's well and it was but it was good it's all a good reminder of how sort of fragile it all is and how I mean in a practical level like save your money yeah like it's all the things that people tell you to do that like I just wasn't really doing and had to learn later so then by the time then I was in when I got jersey boys finally like I was much better about right saving money being smart I stayed in that show for you know, as long as I could, and then, you know,

was that, I made, I think, better choices that second time around. Are you good with, I mean, obviously, you're not coming back to temping the rest of your life, but there are ups and downs for every career where you miss out on jobs you want or whatever. Are you better at kind of managing the ups and downs now, or do things still bother you? I think so. I mean, I assume that every job I have is my last job, sort of. It's that, you know, strange actor mentality. But, no, I think that I, yeah.

I think I'm better at the big picture at this point. Right. Yeah. How are you with the auditioning thing? Is that, because I've talked to actors, some view it as like, it's an opportunity. It's like, you know, I don't get to act a lot, so this lets me act. Or others are like, this is going to crush my spirit for the thousandth time. No, I don't have a problem with auditions.

I mean, no, I just auditioned for something recently that's like, it's a good, it's also a good opportunity for you to try the material. Sure. And see if you want to do it and see if it even is a good fit for you. you because I've been offered things in the past where you say yes to the thing you're like, fuck, can I actually do this? This is actually a thing I can pull off? How do I even know how to do this?

So, no, I think auditioning, there's some benefit on both sides. Do you feel like you have in your mind's eye like an idea of like what? Because we've said, theater, you've got it, you've squared away. You're doing everything. And don't get me wrong, you're doing amazing in TV and film, obviously. But like in film in particular, I'm curious, like, Where do you imagine yourself?

I'd like to write more. Yeah? Yeah. I'd like to go back to, I'd like to take another whack at screenwriting. I think particularly, even with this Black Monday experience,

it was the first time I've been a producer on anything. And that was very educational and very informative that I feel like going into writing another screenplay with some of those things in mind. I think I would be better at it now.

Right. So I'd like to give that a shot. I would imagine having folks like Seth and Evan along, at least at the start too, was helpful. Well, I'm watching them work. You know, Lena was the same way, Judd was the same way. Like, but you have to figure out what your, what is your voice and how do you, and, you know, now having finished this book, I feel like I have a much better sense of how I do actually write and how that could be translated into dialogue and how, like, things that I didn't know before.

Are there kinds of, like, what kind of film is in your wheelhouse to write, do you think, is if there's an analogy? I mean, I'd love to crack the gay romantic comedy thing that I don't think has been in the mainstream yet. I feel like there's a definitely there's stories to be told there multiple stories to be told there so I would like to yeah it feels like yeah because like I'm off the sundance tomorrow

and it's like I'll probably probably see them but there's not it hasn't been done it was very often and well on the mainstream level well because so often it's about being gay it's about coming out it's about someone who's upset about someone coming out like so it'd be nice just to

like chuck all that and just start with, yeah, jump into the middle of it. Just actual human beings as opposed to being defined by their sexuality. Imagine that.

Why could we do that? Is that a thing we could do? I don't think so. Bad idea, Andrew. Do you go up, are you interested in like every like movie musical that's made nowadays? You haven't done one yet,

which is surprising. No, I haven't done one yet. No, I don't know. You know, you hear grumblings about these things that happen and then don't end up happening. Yeah. So I don't know. Yeah.

If something came along that felt like it was the right fit, absolutely, but yeah. Is there a musical you think that hasn't been adapted for film yet, that you're like, why haven't they done that? I'm waiting for a new version of guys and dolls, I'll be honest. Oh, really? Well, see, that was one that was kicking around for a while. I know. That's what I'm saying.

Yeah. So you never know. I mean, there's always talk of that Barbara Streisand Gypsy. When's that coming in? Well, Barbara likes to take her time. When's that happening? of you've heard. I think she's like, salmon, something now.

Are you trying to ruin your relationship with Barbara? Did she ever come to a book of Mormon? I don't have a relationship. I don't have. She didn't come? No, she came. She came to the Book of Mormon. Okay. Yeah, she came to Book of Mormon and she came to Hamilton when I was in Hamilton.

And, yeah, the first time I met Barbara Stryson in person, I was with Josh Gatt, and we were at a party in L.A., and James Brolin was so nice to us. And he was chatting with Josh and I, and he was like, do you want to meet Barbara? and we were like, yeah, we want to meet Barbara. So he took us over to Barbara, and she was wearing all, like, Donna Karen White, but she was eating a chicken wing. Sure. Because we were at this, like, party, and she was eating a chicken wing, and he was like, Barbara, these are the boys from the Book of Mormon.

And she just waved her chicken wing at us. And I was like, this is the best thing. This is the best way we ever could have met her. Like, nothing's better than that. She just, yeah. Is there anybody less on the list? You got Oprah, Barbara? Bernadette?

Bernadette. I got Patty Lepone on my back pocket. No. It's, yeah, yeah, it's a good, yeah, I've been lucky. I've been real lucky. You're off to a good start. We're just getting started. Just collecting, collecting actresses.

Exactly. Yeah, I mean, you're going to, for the next book, it's a tell-all. You're going to tell all those nasty stories. Yeah. Of all the people that waved chicken wings at you. I've eaten, but it was very charming that she waved a chicken wing. She's human. She was eating and we interrupted her.

They'd wave chicken wings. Her husband is brought over these two dumb boys to say hi. Like, what does she care? She wants to meet us? There you go. She's trying to eat a goddamn wing. You finished Black Monday. Everybody should check it out.

It's on showtime. Sundays. Sundays. Although nobody watches live television anymore. We sound old, though. I know. We just did. Yeah.

It's true, though. People watch it on all sorts of... And I didn't even realize, like, so many people are like, oh, I don't have showtime, but then you can watch it through, like, prime. I think they put the first one on YouTube or something too. There are ways to, because I don't have cable anymore, I'll be honest. But then you can get those channels.

I still have those channels through other avenues. There you go. I feel like a real grandpa. I was going to say, this is our next podcast. Just advice from 40-year-olds about tech. 40-year-olds talking about tech. This is how you tweet. Wow, you can do a voice memo.

There was a great, I don't know if you watched CBS Sunday morning this past week. I did not see it. They have this amazing because Moraca starts his own podcast. podcast, that started his own podcast, and there's a segment on CBS Sunday morning where they explaining to the audience, like what a podcast is. That's amazing. That show makes me very happy. It's the pace of it, the feel of it.

That's my dream. That's the next phase of my career. I want to be a correspondent on that. No, I want it. Let me have that. Andrew. No, we're both doing it then. Okay.

Can we do it together? Sure. Okay. You can do that. We'll have to slow down our speech significantly. That can be arranged. Yeah. Less coffee.

I've been sipping ice coffee. All right. It's good to get to know you today. Yes, you too. Thank you for having. Thank you for dropping by. This is fun. Again, everybody check out Black Monday.

And check out the memoir. It's amazing. So when it's out March 12th. This is an early sneak peak. This is an early, yeah. So the book is out March 12th. Okay. But available for pre-order now.

What just happened? That was my announcement. Okay, just checking. My gentle announcement. I look forward to the next installment, and you're welcome here anytime. Thank you. I'd love to be back.

Thanks. Thanks. And so ends another edition of Happy, Sire. I'm confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't pressure to do this by Josh. and we are ecstatic to break down late summer and early fall releases. We have Leonardo DiCaprio leading a revolution in one battle after another, Timothy Salome playing power ping pong and Marty Supreme. Let's not forget Emma Stone and Jorgos Lanthamos' Bagonia.

Dwayne Johnson, he's coming for that Oscar in The Smashing Machine, Spike Lee and Denzel teaming up again, plus Daniel DeLuis's return from retirement. There will be plenty of blockbusters to chat about, too. Tron Aries looks exceptional, plus Mortal Kombat 2, and Edgar writes, The Running Man starring Glenn Powell. Search for Raiders of the Lost podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube.