Happy Sad Confused - Andy Serkis, Vol. II

Episode Date: April 30, 2026

Is there an actor who has contributed more to pop culture the last 25 years than Andy Serkis? From LORD OF THE RINGS and STAR WARS to Marvel, the Apes films, THE BATMAN, and more, his resume is unsurpassed. He joins Josh to chat about it all including his latest directing effort, ANIMAL FARM. SUPPORT THE SHOW BY SUPPORTING OUR SPONSORS! Quince -- Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Quince.com/HAPPYSAD ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠for free shipping and 365-day returns. Limited Time Offer–Get Huel today with my exclusive offer of 15% OFF online with my code happy15 at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://huel.com/happy15.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ New Customers Only. Thank you to Huel for partnering and supporting our show! UPCOMING EVENTS! 5/3 -- Charlie Cox in NY -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Tickets here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 5/5 -- Stanley Tucci in NY -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Tickets here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 5/13 -- Matt & Ross Duffer in LA -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠Tickets here⁠⁠⁠⁠ 5/17 -- Billy Eichner in NY -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Tickets here⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Have you at this point eliminated the word precious from your day to day? Like, can you say that without like some... No, I can't say that. I mean, I can't say that word without them, you know. But also, mostly, nearly every day, I'll bump into someone who you asked me to do gollums. Well, they probably either ask you or they want to do it for you. Yeah, or do it for me. I've heard some amazing, amazing, gollums and some eagles. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins. Guys, it's Josh. Welcome to another edition of Happy Say It Confused. We have an absolute icon in the house today.

Andy Circus. He's Gallum. He's Ulysses Claw. He's Snoke. He's King Kong. He's also the director of the new film Animal Farm. And we're talking about all of it today. Thanks, as always, for checking out the podcast for subscribing. Remember hit that subscribe button if you haven't already on YouTube on Spotify. However you're doing it. Before we get to Andy, super quick reminder, as always, patreon.com slash happy say it confused. We're doing so many events, including the Duffer Brothers live in Los Angeles, May 13th, L.A., come on out. I don't get out there often to do these live events. So if you're a stranger things fan, if you're a fan of Happy Say I Confused, get your tickets now. Link is in the bio. We've also got events coming up with Billy Eichner, with Stanley Tucci, with Charlie Cox.

So much, that's all in New York. All the information is in the show notes. And at patreon.com slash happy, say I confused. Okay, a quick little intro to Andy Surrey. not that he needs one. He was here to promote Animal Farm, which is course, is based on the iconic book. This is an animated film that stars the likes of Seth Rogan and Woody Harrelson. A great piece of work from Andy, always happy to support what he's up to. But also this was a good opportunity for a deep dive into, yes, Lord of the Rings and a little sneak peek at the hunt

for Gallum, which Andy is returning to star in as Gallum, as Smigel, and also as the director. A huge opportunity for him. Very excited about that. We talk Star Wars, though. We talk apes. Arguably one of my favorite franchise is going. His performance is Caesar. Absolutely iconic. He's one of the good guys.

He can talk with expertise like nobody else about performance capture. He's the guy that really made that art form, what it is. This was a blast. So without any further ado, please enjoy me and the one and only Andy Circus. Andy Circus, back where he belongs on Happy Sick and Fused. It's good to see you, man. Congratulations on everything. Thanks, mate.

Okay, so we're spreading the good word today. We're going to start on Animal Farm. We'll dive off a little bit. But Animal Farm is, look, movies take a while. All movies are labors of love. And some of more labors than others. This is a long labor. This has been gestating a while.

Probably as long as I've known you, maybe we've been talking about this one. You could have given up a long time ago. Why is Animal Farm the Passion Project it is for you, man? It just was one of the first books that really spoke to me and hit me hard as a kid. growing up and I remember reading it vividly reading it on the bus to school and it just had a sense that this this kind of fable this fairy tale that had had darker themes underneath and it was I think there's a kind of seminal moment for me that realizing that that literature could could do that that could two things could be going on at the same time and and and I so I then saw a theatrical production of it at the national

theatre in London and I kind of thought I wonder how I'd love to do a version of this and then cut to years later we're making the Planet of the Apes movies right and and there's the moment in rise of the planet Apes first one where Caesar um you know who's been incarcerated in the facility with with all these other disparate group of apes he leads them to freedom and they break out and I thought wow there really hasn't been an and a version of animal farm for a long time there There was the 1954 animated version. Then there was a 1990 kind of animatronic version, real live action with some real animals, in fact.

And I just thought this is the time to do it. And we just started the imaginary in my company. And this was going to be the first film that we were making. And it was going to be performance capture back in the day, of course, right? So that's a big chef, Needles to say, to go from performance capture to traditional animation. And I know I've heard you talk about this a little bit, But give me a sense, like, was there a lightning bolt moment where you accepted, you know what?

As much as I love performance capture, it's not the right medium for this. Yeah, it felt like, I mean, if we'd gone down the performance capture route and we had prepared, we spent a long time kind of working out how to make the pigs work physically. And, you know, we experimented with all sorts of things to, you know, to create the box of the Shire Horse and all sorts. You know, we even brought in, you know, the stage show, the War Horse. Right, yeah. Right, we even brought in the war horse and we put markers on the war horse and had the puppeteers. Right.

You know, so we were doing all these experiments with performance capture. Then we sort of realized that if we make it a live action performance capture driven movie, like the Apes movies, it would inevitably become a darker film. Yes. And we would have to engage on a level of reality that perhaps was going to make it lose its innocence. Yeah. Or the covering or the rapper of a... of an innocent fable. And so we sort of pulled back and we thought, no, we really want to make this for a young audience and accessible to a young or to a family audience where they could

have, where the purpose became, let's make this a debate between young inquiring minds and their parents and their grandparents, you know, so because that's, and sort of, so this was back in sort of 2000 and, I suppose 2014-15 and way before political events have come to how they are now and the world that we're living in, you know, this 15 years later from when we first started. And it just seemed to becoming more and more relevant. The story just seems to scary become more and more relevant. Yeah, I saw you wearing the hat at your premiere last Nate, make Animal Farm fiction again. Yeah. I mean, sadly, Animal Farm will probably always be very resident to an audience. But talk to me a little bit about how the

meaning of it has changed for you. You just alluded to this in recent years. Why is this film, you know, why do we need to, why do kids especially, why does the young people you think need to wake up and see this movie, you think? Because, you know, we are living in such complex, difficult times where, you know, the themes of the book really examine, obviously, power corrupting, absolutely, absolute power corrupting, absolutely, and disinformation, misinformation, misinformation, fake news, and the destruction of truth as a, as a, as a, as a, as a, a, as a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, and a, and a, and a, a, a, and a, a, a, a, a, a, and a, a, a. a value that we, you know, used to uphold. And it just seems increasingly and rapidly and sort of, we were sort of heading towards this time when nothing, you know, we don't care. Somehow we just are stopping caring.

Maybe it's over, you know, being hit so hard with imagery day in, day out of horrific things around the world where we've become desensitized or we shut off and go the other route and we sort of lose ourselves in a way that is unreal and not connecting. So, and especially for young minds, it's like, how do we navigate this? How do we actually have serious kind of conversations about important things? But also not lose, I mean, Animal Farm is a book, has got a lot of humor in it.

Sure. You know, and it's ironic and very funny. It's outright funny at times. So we wanted to make a very, you know, version of this film that really spoke to, yeah, the family. But it was going to be an entertainment too. Right. You can't lose sight of that. It's kind of like you're like drawing them and it's like, come on. It's Zootopia. Just come on in. But no, no, wait, there's something a little bit more heading heady behind it. And I think that's why, I mean, we all, I think probably most of us,

I remember reading Animal Farm when I'm a kid. And like, you also feel kind of like, I don't know, cool and adult when you kind of realize there's something more behind it. That's right. We all kind of had that epiphany, whether it's a book or a film, you're like, oh, like, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm learning the nuance behind this. Absolutely. Absolutely. And that is, I mean, that's a great word to describe, you know, where, where we're at. We're losing the art of nuance because everything is very black and white. Everything is right or wrong or evil or great or, you know, it's all, it's not, it's, there's, there's, the discussion isn't, isn't happening and all the listening isn't happening and the

empathy to be able to listen this. We're losing. And that is why it is crucial at this time. And so we had to make some adaptations to the novel to kind of really dig into those themes. And one of the things that I was excited about exploring was putting the audience in, you know, in the mindset of the animals. And that doesn't happen in the book because it's quite objective, you know. The story is, you know, it's actually the pigs, although they're important characters,

are very offstage characters in the book. And I wanted to get right into the bunker of where they were to see what was going on, where the power was being held. But also at the same time to take a young piglet, and we created this character Lucky, who becomes the conduit for us into the story, this young, in a young, Piggler who considers himself just an animal, just that one of the animals on the farm that has come through the rebellion and created this utopia and they have freedom and then who becomes corrupted and being made to realize that he is he is part of the elite. He's not just an animal, he's a pig and and the separation of those and I think that's one of the key key things in our film. It's really saying are you an animal or are you a pig? And as as he becomes corrupted by this, not a sort of overtly evil character, but a fun-loving, avuncular, joker, kind of, you know, populist figure

that you can't help not like because it's Seth Rogen. It's very smart casting to kind of lure you in with that, because, like, who doesn't love Seth? And he engender so much goodwill. And then you're like, hmm, this is an interesting arc for this guy. Yeah. I mean, I was going to talk about the cast. The cast is stacked.

You called in some friends, some new friends. Is Woody now like a good luck from Woody Harrelson? You've worked with him a few times. Woody and I have become very close friends. And we've worked both on stage now. We did a theatre piece a couple of years ago, which was incredible. It was the first time we'd been on stage for, well, I hadn't been on stage for 22 years. And Woody hadn't been on stage for 18 years.

And so we sort of held each other's hands and said, come on, let's do it. It was an amazing play. So, but he, I mean, he loved the book as well. And I think the fact where we got lucky with our cast was because everyone adored the book and saw the value. Well, they trust you to. They don't. Well, I hope so. But, you know, like you say, you know, I mean, but people like, for instance, Seth, Jim Parsons and Glenn Close, we approached 12 years ago.

And they stuck with the project. You know, Woody came on board because he loved the kids. character of Boxer and then we and Gait and Mataratsa was perfect to take this young innocent piglet role and who becomes corrupted and then the scales fall from his eyes and he realizes he has to make amends you know and imman valani you know who again she she adored the book and and so we gave her two characters to play and you know one sort of populist pig following kind of you know worshipping the leader and then the one who is the kind of the Jiminy Cricket, who's the sort of the conscience of the piece

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Patrick Pickle Bottom Everyday Mysteries is perfect for kids and is just as entertaining for grownups who love a good mystery. The whole family can listen now wherever you get your podcasts. I have to say, look, we probably talked for virtually all of your projects, it seems like over the career. And to see your trajectory, especially as a filmmaker, is really remarkable. For those that don't know, kind of the origin story, it's connected, of course, toward the rings. It's very much Peter Jackson calling you up, correct you know, I'm wrong, and saying,

second unit, Hobbit, are you in? I mean, could it be argued that Peter, for a variety of reasons of casting you as Gallum and also making that phone call is the most important professional, I don't know, godfather in your career? Without question, without question. I mean, Peter's been so loyal. And he saw very early on while we were making Lord of the Rings that I wanted to direct. He knew that I wanted to direct. In fact, in fact, some of the scenes on Lord of the Rings,

I actually directed some of the Gollum Smeagall, the Smeagel scene where he and Degal fight. No, no, not that one. In The Return of the King where Smeagel and Degel fight. Right. And there was a reason why one day, you know, Fran Walsh, who was going to be directing it, and Pete was directing another unit, and then that didn't happen. And so Pete said, will you direct the scene?

And so he'd seen a short film that I'd made, and he just knew that I wanted to direct, you know. That's putting a lot of trust in someone. Like, that's like, I mean, you know this now as someone that directs yourself. Absolutely. To make that phone call. Yeah, yeah. Who knows? No, and it was literally, it was an incredible day actually

because it was the day that we got the funding to start the Imaginarian, which was my performance capture studio. And it was the very same day, Pete said, phoned me up and said, look, we want and sort of someone who knows about performance to direct the second unit on the Hobbit because we've got 13 dwarves, we've got an enormous ensemble main cast

who are going to be going between units. So rather than sort of like a stunt director or, you know, just, you know, which you sometimes get on with second unit. He wanted someone who could direct and understand performance and how to elicit performance. I mean, talk about full circle. Like, we're going to be talking about this. I know in more detail down the line, but it told me for a second

because your next project is the hunt for Godwin. I mean, this is so exciting. I just had Elijah Wood in here who were talking. And I asked him what, you know, I'll ask you, and I don't mean it as a negative, but like, I think a lot of people, when they heard about this was like, why? Like why is this story need to be told? And what Elijah said to me is like trust, trust the integrity of this project.

This is all the people you love doing it. Can you sum up for me though, like why this story needs to be told? I think, look, I really don't want to give too much away about it because we will be talking about this further down the line probably in about a year's time. But there is so much more to be dug out. out of this very complex character, the most perhaps complex character that Tolkien wrote, because he kept revisiting it as well, you know, multiple times. And so there was a desire for a series of return

to Middle Earth movies, and this seemed to be a great way in, to be able to bring some of the cast back, but also see, this is a very much more intimate story. Yeah. and a deep dive psychological investigation into a character who has become, you know, sort of absorbed into the public consciousness in a rather a large way. So it sort of feels like there is a real relevance. You know, I mean, I'll give you an example. The whole notion of addiction that we ascribes to the character of Smeagel Gollum.

And so many people over the years who have met at conventions, who I've met, you know, or who I've met in, randomly who've said I really relate to that character. I totally relate to the inner voice in my heads. Or addicts who I've met who have said that, you know, Golland really spoke to me as a character and helped me through difficult times. So I think there's still a wealth of stuff to be got out of the character. And it sits very neatly between the Hobbit trilogy and the Lord of the Rings. And it's a great way, I think, of bringing the audience

back into this world. Is Gallum the protagonist? Is Strider the protagonist? Like, who's the hero of the story? I say nothing at this point about the story. Don't talk about the story. Can I just say, though, you announced the cast last week at SinapCon. I'm very, very excited about this.

Everybody is. It's obviously a mix of some familiar faces. Ian McKellen is back. Of course. Pace is back. Elijah is back. Yeah. But you've cast the hell out of this with some new faces too.

Indeed. Leo Woodall, if you don't know his work, he's got the goods. He's amazing. Kate Winslet, we know has the goods. He's all right. She's okay. You know. And I have to say, Jamie Dornan is a buddy, and I adore him.

Those are big shoes to fill. Can you just talk to me about, like, I know there was some discussion of Vigo, and I assume, like, he's just not in the place where he's interested in doing that for a variety of reasons all good. But like, casting that, can you just talk about, like, why Jamie was the guy for you? I really, really don't want to go. in doing right now because I do want to save that for you know further down the line and and we're at a kind of crunch stage now of just about we're just about to start

shooting that's where I said you know we're not far off shooting so so so I'm gonna save all discussion about casting other than that we are thrilled that Jamie's doing I mean we're you know absolutely thrilled and by the way so is Vigo so oh good yeah he's at silver approval that means a lot hundred percent that's good well he's a class act as we know. Yeah. Let's just take a step back even beyond Lord of the Rings because like people know this, but like when you, when I rattle off the credits, your place in pop culture is unsurpasser.

Okay. So, Ghalm, King Kong, Alfred, Ulysses Claw, Caesar, and not one but two great Star Wars characters. And that's like, we haven't talked about theater and all the other live action stuff. Like, just give me a sense of like, I mean, you know, you can't like bask in that every day. but when I was something like that, that's a nice feeling, I would imagine, for you. It is. And look, you know what?

If you'd said to me when I was starting off acting that I would be involved in these projects at this level, you know, at this scale, and then directing at this, you know, these kinds of movies, I just wouldn't have believed it. When I started out as a theatre actor, I fully believed that, and I was lucky to work in a theatre

that thought it was providing a service to a community. It was a very community-oriented theatre. and you felt like you were really doing something for the community, you know, and that you were telling stories that were communicating with them. And that was good enough for me. I felt like acting always had a purpose, you know, that you weren't, it wasn't just a self-serving kind of vain activity, that it really, and I was taught that by the first director I ever worked with

theatre director, Jonathan Petherbridge, you know, that was the ethos of the company. So I've always believed the storytelling as a massively powerful, tool for change and for connecting with audiences. And so to be able to, you know, 20, well, how many 25 years ago, I wish, you know, 40 years later, to have been through these journeys, it's incredible. And the meaning of all these characters, like everybody you meet every single day, it's just like they're all the tattoos, what they've meant to, like, their lives.

These are not just things that go through you. These are things that really change people. That's right. I mean, you realize the power of storytelling is actually our savior at the moment, I think. You know, finding truth through allegory and through fictitious worlds, but allow us to say something about the human condition. You know, that's really been the backbone of what I've always, my approach has always been. And then to be able to enter into that world of actually creating characters using the technology to enable you.

and sort of a 21st century actor's tool that enables any actor to play anything is really kind of it is like stepping through the looking glass and I count myself incredibly fortunate. All right, let me rattle off related to some of these roles, some quick questions on each of these. So like, you know, I adored the apes movies. I'm obsessed with what Rupert did, especially Matt Reeves did in those last two movies with you. I mean, so much of it was about physicality, especially in the beginning when you didn't really have much speech. But like, do you remember in Rise, like, as I recall, it's essentially no and Caesar is home? Like, that's essentially all you had to work with.

Absolutely. Like, the effort, the thought that went into kind of like how you were going to deliver those lines. Do you remember that? I do, I do. And I did base Caesar on a real-life chimpanzee called Oliver, who was very human-like in his behavior. He used to sit, he would literally sit across a little, you know, sort of with his legs, crossed and he had very human facial expressions and in fact he became a subject of a lot of DNA experimentation in the 70s he was taken around the world and and and to find out if he was the

progeny of human being and an eight because he yeah I mean they finally decided his DNA was but he literally had a face that that looked much much more human you can see on YouTube you can find Oliver and he was completely bipedal which is wow which is you know not how chimpanzees move right but so that was that was the sort of the way the way in for me but I remember reading the script for a rise and it was just the power of that it was a great script by it by Rick and Jaffer and Amanda Silver yeah and it was it didn't read as an ape it just read as this amazing character and I almost forgot he was an ape because he was brought up as a human with humans and then thrown into a facility with apes.

I mean, the arc of that through those three films. It's like, what a gift for an actor, unbelievable. To play, I mean, again, to play a character all the way from sort of infancy through to death over the course of three movies. Not only that, but it's not just seeing an ape grow up. It's seeing an ape gain conscious, human consciousness, gain kind of, you know, a new physical vocabulary in each of the movies and a verbal vocabulary in a way of signing and a way of communicating but also i mean i see is literally is one of my favorite characters because

because i think i wish more world leaders will like him really you know he's got he's got humility he's got strength he's he has empathy yeah you know and uh and and he's a great leader he's a really great leader. I'll follow him over Coba any day. I would not follow Snoke as a leader. No. He's still in there. So Snoke, when JJ came to you with Snoke in Star Wars, did he position him as the big bad that was going to be there through the trilogy? I don't really know. I can't really remember. It's sort of a blur with Snoke. Snoke is the one character that was a massive challenge because he was sort of evolving as in terms of right. as we were going along and within even that first film or even like you're talking into the second from that into the set into the second yeah but I mean so we so it was still

unclear I think where where he was at what what he actually represented in that first film right and so that so it was it was that that was challenging plus the physical difficulty of being up on because it was pretty much a you know a hologram for the first right film so he was I was at 50 feet away and 30 feet up, you know, away from my scene partners. So, you know. I'm down there. How's it going?

Save some crafty for me. Yeah, exactly. You know, so it was, it, it, I mean, look, not that that was entirely alien to me. I played King Kong, so I knew what it was like to be. Why are they keeping me apart from the cast on all these movies? What are they? No. What are you?

Exactly. But, but he, yeah, he was, he was, it took a while to really get into the, into the heads face of that character and actually it was we did facial capture and vocal kind of work you know after the main shoot me and JJ and we then started to find to find him more and to define him but it wasn't until the second film that that I kind of really felt him you who he was and and then and then by then it was just like a little too late because I and I'll never forget reading the script for it because we you know you go to Pinewood and you're locked in a room and they take your mobile phone off you,

and then you, you know, you start reading the script. And it was just like, oh, this is getting really good now. Ryan Johnson said this is, you know, he's a much more meaty role in this. And I'm like, wow, this is getting great. This is such a good scene. And then it's just like, all right, you've just been cut in half. Okay. Sorry, what, bye-bye.

So, what an emotional roller coaster. That being said, it's a great scene. The throne room sequence is my favorite in those films. I do, I do love that. I love playing that scene with Daisy and with Adam, you know, amazing. That was amazing. The good news is your other Star Wars character is canonically still alive. We don't know.

Well, exactly, exactly. So there was, of course, in Andor, you make quite an impression and quite a departure. Do we think he's still out there? Do we think he survived the fall? Well, look, I mean, you know, he's, I don't think he did at it fall. I think he went back in. And, you know, there was a rather nice, large drinks cabinet in the central command that has been left behind. And so I think he's waiting for his moment.

Did you, any communication with Tony Gilroy after that first season? Was there ever anything discussed? It was, no, it wasn't. I mean, it was strange because while we were coming to the end of the first, you know, sort of promote, well, while we were promoting the first series, they'd started the second. And he, they purposefully kind of asked me not to reveal what happened to him with, I think, the prospect of coming back and then.

And then nothing. Nothing. How rude. I know. I know. It was like, oh, come on, guys. You can't have it always. More happy, say, confused, coming up. Oh, please, not that music. That music gives me nightmares from my childhood. Could we get something a little bit lighter? Some lighter music here. Are you a fan of True Crime TV shows?

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with another iconic character to be part. I mean, Matt is top of the mountain for me as a filmmaker, and I love what he did with the Batman. How did he, not that you have to be sold on playing Alfred, but like we've seen a lot of interpretations of Alfred. You want to make it your own. Sure. What did he say to you? What did you land on in terms of like how you were going to kind of come up with your own unique Alfred? I mean, I wanted Alfred to, you know, actually, both Matt and I were really investigating the role of the father figure, you know, and what that is in real life to us. He has his version. I certainly have mine. I had a very distant father and my own kind of feelings of being a father and being sort of separated from my family for a lot due to

work. So that was that was a thing. Alfred represented a sort of, he had a lack of paternal instinct but wanted it but couldn't ever get there and and was an at the moment of of greatest need for for Bruce you know he wasn't there for his parents and so so he was carrying that you know carrying that guilt and and and it was just the desire to try you know I think there's a real desire to make amends for that which which is which is what what their connection he could teach him skills he could teach him things that he'd learned you know I wanted him to feel like he was once in the SAS did work for private military companies did end up big becoming you know private

security for you know the upper echelons and then and then and then obviously we're working for the way in enterprises but so so it so i wanted to be grounded in being a soldier that had worked his way up into a position of being being you know so he could so there were physical skills he could teach or some skills he could teach to to to to teach to young bruce but not emotional skills. Well, thank goodness for that, because we don't want a well-adjusted Bruce to win. No, no, absolutely. The only thing under lock and keep more than Hunt for Gallum is the script for The Batman Part 2.

So, again, I don't expect you to tell me anything. But I talked to Colin after he read it, and he couldn't have been more excited by the script. It is amazing. It's a great script. And it really isn't, again, I'm not going to say anything whatsoever about it. And actually, the great thing is I'm going to be able to do it, because it's sort of, You figured it out how to... We figured the schedule out, you know, so...

So, because it's going to be tight, you know, but it's... I would imagine. You know, but we'll get there. But, I mean, what I've heard, Pattinson's said it's a huge swing, that it's deep, it's dark, it's emotional. Oh, yeah. These are the adjectives? What are your adjectives that you...

I would concur with all of those. Yeah. No, no, definitely. We haven't even mentioned Ulysses-Caw gone, but not forgotten. No. Why does everybody want to get rid of this? characters that I've created so early. And I love the fact, I was just flicking through some stuff the other day actually

because I'll tell you what I am doing and I have been doing this year. I was asked to write a memoir and I was like, I don't want to write a memoir. I've got so many things I want to do with my life. It takes a long time to do it. I'm not going to drawl back through my own life. It's boring. That's the reason why I play all these characters. You know, so.

So are you going to do it? Are you actually? Well, in actual, this was two years ago. an actual fact, I've completed a memoir. And I've just completed, I've just completed recording the audio book of my memoir. So, which is going out at a good moment. You're in your own head.

It's coming out, yeah. And that's coming out towards the end of this year. Oh, amazing. So I'd love to talk to you about that. Of course. Further at that point when I'm passing back through because it wasn't, it's a really interesting kind of journey going back over your own life. You've lived so many lives.

That's the thing. That's the thing. And we haven't even, and maybe we'll talk later this year, like your whole life before were the rings is a whole life. And then you reinvent and you reinvent as a filmmaker. It's really weird going back over your own life. And especially if you're an actor, because like you say, it's multiple lives.

And I've always believed that you're the kind of the summation of all of the things that you've done. And chemically, you change yourself for a round. role, you know, psychologically, emotionally, physically, you know, you've tricked your body and mind into being someone else. So you can't get rid of those things completely. There's always dregs and remnants of all of those characters stuff in there. There is, you don't want to know. Little snoke a little loosely claw, I don't want to know. We talked a bit about Lord of the Rings, but I do want to say like, I mean, there's so many iconic scenes. And I referenced earlier,

I'm always fascinated by that two towers, that sequence between your two characters, obviously, Smeagel and Ghal. Can you just talk me through a little bit of what that was like for you to film and how you're code switching, how you're like you have to change voice and posture between. They're essentially two. They are two different characters, I would imagine. Yes, you consider them that? Yeah, they alters definitely. You know, it's a sort of dissociative disorder.

You know, it's kind of like it's, and one is there to cope for the other. So, I mean, well, this evolved out of lots of discussion with Fran and Philippa, you know, the writers. and Peter obviously. Because early on the script was, it was very, you know, it wasn't defined, but we, so we had to really, really essentialise what it was that they represented. And so Smeagel became this sort of younger, brutalised younger brother to Gollum who was, who had been shoved away into a box, you know, that he'd been sort of,

other than he'd been disliked and and and actually and Golan was the survivor Golan was the tough brutal we're gonna get through this we've got to get the pressures we've got to get you know you know got to get the ring and and smee and smegal was actually the softer sweeter really kind of brutalized younger version but then but then that so so that's where it was in the two towers and that's that's that's that that that part of him emerges because of his burgeoning relationship with with Frodo and Frodo brings that out of him. Of course in the evolution of that and so well

anyway let me just talk about that so so we worked on that scene and that that scene when we were doing principal photography that scene didn't exist that wasn't in the script originally that evolved out of you know a year of discussion that's when you went back for the additional photography and and we sat around and we you know There were seven pages of script that scene that we, well, Fran and Phil particularly wrote. And, you know, we shot it on the mocap stage first. And then after we shot it on the mocap stage and where you're not worried about camera angles.

You're just playing the whole thing. I was just playing them back and forth. And then when we came to shoot, then we shot it on the set. I think it was the next day, practically. And then Peter was very carefully choosing. choosing where it merges from, you know, from being one into two characters almost having an argument with each other. And it was, you know, it was the most incredible scene to play and to work on and, you know, one

of my favorite scenes in the film because it really, you know, you suddenly become, and I'll never forget the first night seeing it with an audience actually and seeing their response to it and seeing everybody lean forward and kind of go, what is the thing? this, we're watching, and says, this feels incredibly real, this character, but it can't be real because it's a CG game, you know. So it was, you know, it was interesting. Yeah. Have you, at this point eliminated the word precious from your day to day?

Like, can you say that without like some. No, I can't say that. I mean, I can't say that word without, you know, but also mostly, nearly every day, I'll bump into someone who you ask me to do God. Well, they probably either ask you or they want to do it for you. Yeah, or do it for me. I've heard some amazing, amazing, Golums and some eagles.

So you encourage that. You'd prefer that probably than to be asked to do it. Absolutely. So if you see Andy out in the wild, totally fine to demonstrate your Ghalom, maybe give him a pass on asking for my precious, right? 100%. Where are you at?

I mean, in terms of performance capture and award stuff, and this was a big dialogue back in the days of Worth the Rings, I think, as I recall, you were not an advocate of like, you didn't want a separate category. Is that sort of where you're at still and do you feel like we're getting closer to, seems crazy with Avatar and Thanos and all these amazing performance capture your work that we still haven't seen any recognition in the major categories?

It's strange. And there was, you know, there was, there were difficult discussions early on because that one couldn't, in order to look, to explain performance capture to people in those days, 25 years ago, before Snapchat filters and before people could understand that, you know, they can make a sound, they can come out of another characters, which everyone can do now. Right. Do you know what I mean?

That's true. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Everyone could do a version of their own performance category. You can. You can, you know. But back in the day, it was like trying to explain dots on faces, infrared cameras, capture, you know, triangulating each point and all of that, and then retargeting that to an avatar character.

It was very, very, it was like, you know, trying to explain that process. say at its core it is just acting and if I was playing Gollum in a loincloth and no clothes you know and you know makeup which I did for some of it right you know in the return of the king and when you see that right that it's acting is acting and that's so it doesn't it I wouldn't approach it any differently just because I'm wearing a motion capture suit line I didn't I didn't if I was playing Caesar and I was wearing a full ape out you know kind of ape skin yeah I wouldn't have played him any differently is the the choices that

you make as an actor from page 1 to 120 of the script and working out the arc and the scenes and the beats and the relationships and then the and then the interactivity with all your fellow actors that isn't any different so I've never drawn a distinction between and and and then I got myself into a lot of trouble talking about it as if it was digital makeup and that of course you know was was not the right way of saying it because that was doing disservice to the animators the animators have to retarget your performance onto the physiognomy of something that is different to your own face. So it's not... There is an art to that.

There is a collaboration. Of course. Yeah. And also, it's his down, it's sort of director's choice in a way as to how far or near you want it to the actor's authored original performance. Right. Because you can, for instance, Matt Reeves as a director, it was like, he was like, there was no question, I want to see Andy. Yeah, he didn't want to see him. you didn't want like build out and just showed me that.

I don't want you to make his teeth bear more than anybody. You know, there is retargeting to the ape's face, but if I'm not seeing the same performance I got in the monitor that I have in front of me that I've cut my film with of Andy doing what he's doing, if I don't see that, then it's not, you know, I don't want it. Whereas a character like, say, Captain Haddock in Tintin, which was slightly more, there was more leeway

and Stephen would want a kind of slightly more exaggerated facial expression derived from... Yeah. Well, it makes sense for the medium for the kind of film it is. Yeah.

Everything's different. So it is director's choice and you can, you know, even myself is directing Mowgli and we had, you know, an incredible cast playing all those characters,

the animal characters, but we had to retarget Benedict Cumberbatch's face on, you know, onto a tiger, you know. So it was in the design of the character where, you know, on the spectrum,

you got Benedict over here, one end, and then you've got the tiger, the other end, somewhere along that, you see both Benedict and a tiger. And then it's just, well, how wide does his mouth open? Well, it's not exactly how, you know, because it can open it wider than Benedict could, for instance. But do you know what I mean?

So there are augmentations, but the performance is the performance. And it's not derived by, it's not authored by multiple animators. It's derived from an actor. I was thinking, you know, I rattled off the insane number of iconic performances, franchises, you've been a part of the one that's eluded you. I know you mentioned Star Trek and I'm a Star Trek fan too. It would be amazing to see you in Star Trek, but here's the one, here's the role, here's the franchise.

I just have this epiphany this morning. Andy, Harry Potter, they're looking for Voldemort. You're welcome. Wow. Are you in? Definitely. I mean, yeah, I'm just waiting for the call, basically. That's a cool one.

Mind you, Rafe's a big, big boots to follow, you know. Would that, I mean, can you give me a menacing Harry Potter? What would your take be? Wow, no, I'd have to think seriously that. You don't want to ruin your audition right now. No, I'm not going to do it right now. No, no, no, no, no. They'll have to come calling.

But you're willing to sacrifice the nose for your arts. You're willing to... Oh, yeah. I'd chop my nose off, yeah. I'm so very happy to do that. Of course. All right, full circle as we wrap this up. Feeling good, feeling satisfied.

It's been a long journey. You had your big premiere last night. Yeah. big adventure. How you feeling? Yeah. I know I feel I feel I really is actually a massive turning point you know getting this this film out finally. So thrilled and also I have to say that you know the company that we're at work that are distributing our movie Angel are incredible and they are their business model is fantastic and it's a very it's you know where you know you know cinema is in a very strange place at the moment we all know it is you know people in

not going to the cinema because they can see things, you know, the same thing streaming two weeks after it's gone into the theatre. So this, this, this distribution guild, if you like, which has two, two million followers have been incredibly right and bespoke for Animal Farm. And they're doing an incredibly, really fantastic job in taking this film out to the theatres. Excellent. Excellent. All right. We've ended. I just, just a minute left. I know you have to run the profoundly random questionnaire for you, Andy. Dogs or cats? Oh, cats.

Okay. What do you collect, if anything? Camera. Hence the collection. Favorite video game of all time? I like Silent Hill. Okay. All right.

The Dakota Johnson Memorial question, she asked me. I ask everybody, would you rather have a mouthful of bees or one be in your butt? I've had one bee in my butt, and then I got an anaphylactic shock. which wasn't great and I nearly passed. So you're going with a mouthful. Going forward. I'll have a mouthful of them though, man. It happened, seriously?

I did when I'd just come down from going to Everest base camp on a trek. And it was just like, you know, all the things that could have happened on that. And I was lying down by the swimming pool. I lay over on a bee. I had welts running down my legs. I could, I don't, it was hard, finding it hard to breathe. Oh, my God. I'm glad I can laugh because you're still here.

Oh, my God. Wallpaper on your phone? is actually of a mountain, because I'm a big mountaineer, and it's a fictitious mountain, which is going to be the subject of a film that I most want to make. Amazing. Okay. Last actor you were mistaken for?

Michael Sheen. But then this is true. I got off a plane in L.A. Kate Beckinsale, he was married to at the time many years ago. Their daughter came running up to me saying, Dang. No. I swear.

And Michael, And I do laugh over this. And lastly, the worst note of director has ever given you, Andy. Um, the worst note. Can you, I'm just trying to think, you, no, you've done everything for me. Just do one for yourself. It's kind of like, dismiss, like, just like, yeah, you can have your take now, I suppose. Yeah, yeah.

Amazing. It's always good to catch up. I'm glad to hear about the memoir, because this is going to be a good excuse, to really go down memory late next time. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I can't imagine what that experience has been. Congratulations, Animal Farm. You did it.

You made it. It's out there for kids and adults alike. Everybody check it out. Support Andy. Thanks, buddy. Thanks as always. Appreciate you. It's great to see you.

And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't appreciate it. to do this by Josh. Hi, I'm Brandi Passanti. For the last 15 years, I've starred

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