Happy Sad Confused - Anne Hathaway, Bella Thorne

Episode Date: April 19, 2017

Why was Anne Hathaway, one of the biggest and most celebrated movie stars in the world, considering leaving acting only a couple years ago? The Oscar winner joins Josh this week to talk about her peaks and valleys, how this Jersey girl made it big, and why she’s sick of nice-girl roles.  Hathaway’s new film is “Colossal”, a delightfully bizarre blend of sci-fi, comedy, and drama, that’s been wowing critics since it debuted at the Toronto Film Festival.  Also on this week’s episode of “Happy Sad Confused” is actress and social media superstar Bella Thorne. At just 19, Thorne’s already got an impressive resume in television and film. She joins Josh to talk candidly about being nearly broke at 18, how social media actually pays her bills, and her new TV series, “Famous in Love” (which just debuted on Freeform).  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Capital One and a member FDIC This week on Happy, Say I Confused, Bella Thorne on being famous in love and Anne Hathaway on a colossal career. Hey guys, I'm Josh Horowitz. Welcome to my podcast. That's my singing voice for you, Sammy. Podcast.

Podcast. I'm Josh. That's Sammy. We do the intro and then we let the famous people talk for a bit. That's the way we do it. And then I go back into the basement. Into the hole, Sammy's hole. Where I'm locked.

You just missed Anne Hathaway. I know. I was really stalking the outside of this. Were you? You were curious? The second I went to the bathroom, she pops. It's like she waited. She did.

It's like she knew I wanted to do a lay miss sing-along. Oh, she, I think you might have. Stop, don't. Okay, no one. Sorry. Oh, my God. We did talk a little waymiz, by the way. If you didn't, you don't deserve your job.

Well, that basically, many of, many of made that argument already. So yes. Coming up later on in the show is Anne Hathaway, starring in a great new film called Colossil. We'll talk about that in a bit, but it's a great conversation. She was delightful and a lot to talk about her amazing career. First up on the podcast will be Bella Thorne, who stopped by to chat about her new TV show. She's returning to TV in a show called Famous in Love and being like, also just, we had a very interesting conversation about her, like, amazing social media presence and sort of like, frankly how that's part of her job and how she's trying to remain authentic. And I mean, you know, Bella probably gets a lot of shit from people. She's 19 years old and she's, you know, like still kind of like figuring out what she's all about. I'm sure like any 19 year old. But she's always been cool with me and we've shot some really cool sketches over the years.

And she's, you know, she's growing up. And it's really cool to watch somebody, you know, who's very talented be also as authentic and real and forthright about, you know, some important issues come up in this conversation. She talks about, you know, dealing with depression and being, you know, she's been very open about depression and sexuality and acne, whatever, any issue that plagues a 19-year-old. Or teens. Yeah.

And she's always very open about that online and on social media. And I think her audience really appreciates that. Did you guys discuss your role in her new show? I mentioned it, yes. Did she know what you were talking about? I'm not sure if she did or not. But famous in love is based on a book of the same name. And suffice it to say, the book is about a young actress who kind of becomes a sensation

overnight when she's cast in this big blockbuster series. And there are some kind of analogous things to Twilight in the book. And there's a character in the book that someone pointed this out to me a while back named Josh Harwort. Josh Harward. Who is an MTV correspondent. Who's real good with the teens. Good with the teens and knows the actors very well and is described as being very chill.

So basically it's me. Based on the name you think it's you, but based on everything else. You don't think I'm chill? I'm not chill? No. Not after seeing you on a roller coaster in Orlando. Okay, so we need to talk about that. Before we toss to this Bella Thorne conversation, we had a blast. It was a special time.

We went to Star Wars Celebration, guys. And as you, if you know me at all, you know that's a big deal for me. And if you know Sammy Dahl, you know that means nothing to her. It meant, it means more to me now that it did before I went. So Star Wars celebration is basically Comic-Con just all about Star Wars. And I went to a few panels and we did interviews. All the interviews are up on MTV's Facebook page, interviews with Daisy Ridley and John Boyega. Part of the Happy Side Confused family, Daisy Ridley.

The voice of Happy Side Confused. She comes to the studio every week. She told me I'm her favorite podcaster. Yeah. So it was great to see Daisy. and John and Ryan Johnson, the director, and Kathleen Kennedy. Mark Hamel. Mark Hamel.

How did I forget? Mark Hamel. That was amazing. Literal Luke Skywalker. It was pretty cool. And they were fun conversations. And then, as I said, they're all up on our Facebook page, MTV's Facebook page. So check those out.

And, yeah, we went to some amusement parks too in our downtime. Oh, my God. I wish that I could put a visual element into this podcast. Why do you say that? Because it's a picture of you on Space Mountain looking like your. You're going to the guillotine. What's it like? Well, here's what I would say.

Just one thing. The first roller coaster we went on, I stipulate. I had one stipulation. I said, I'll do whatever. I just don't want to do a loop. I don't want to go upside down. You said I don't want to do loops. You didn't mention if there was one loop.

You're being, you're revealing yourself to be the asshole that you are right now. I'm just saying. Everybody here knows it. And now what kind of person you are. Also, we're at Disney World. Let's make it clear. We're not in like, you know. What?

A crazy. We're not six flags. Six flags known as a death trap. Yeah. Where people die every day. Yeah, no. This is. Well, suffice to say, about 20 seconds before I went on the coaster with Sammy next to me,

she's like, by the way, there might be a loop or two or whatever. And I started to freak the fuck out. Oh, no. Oh, no. And there was. And I thought you were doing a bit, honestly. I thought you were doing a bit. I'm not, I can't go full volume because it'll blow out people there.

What was I saying? What was I doing? Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, no. Oh, no. Meanwhile, you were cackling.

You were. I couldn't breathe. I couldn't believe the noises you were making. Well, I thought, I thought you were doing a bit. That's going to be the last noise that you hear before I die. I hope so. Oh, boy. Oh, God.

Oh, God. Oh, God. It brought me so much. And then he was decapitated on Space Mountain. Yeah, you, the thing is that you had fun. You like the roller coasters. Well, I'm, in case you didn't know by now, I'm a massive contradictions. So what I'm saying is I took away the anxiety for you.

Oh, thanks. Because you didn't know what you were getting into and then you had fun. I did have fun. Okay. But it was also harrowing and I probably have a heart attack building right now. It takes a week after you burden the roller coaster. True. I'm no scientist. I'm no doctor. But I'm pretty sure it's going to kick at any moment now. Okay. Well, that's enough about our shenanigans in Orlando. As I said, listen and watch our interviews with the cast of Star Wars, The Last Jedi, on our Facebook page. And, you know, enough chit-chat. We've got a big show, Sam. We've got to get to it.

Anne Hathaway coming up a little bit later on the show. But first up, please enjoy this conversation with Bella Thorne. Bella Thorne. Famous in Love is now available. All 10 episodes, I believe, are available on Freeform's websites, et cetera. And, of course, it airs on Free Forum as well. Go check it out and enjoy this chat with Bellathorne. Guys, it's Bellathorn. What the fuck? What the fuck!

Hi! I mean, you should know by now, because I just introduced Bellethorne before I actually introduced Belethorn, so you really should really shouldn't be in shock. I don't know why you're in shock, Bella, Bella, because you're, you walked into a podcast studio. In case you guys didn't know, my name is Bella Thorne. I'm Josh. Nice to meet you guys. It's good to see you, buddy. Yeah, how is it? Things are fine. Things are good. Welcome to, this is the first time we've done the little podcast action. I know. This is cool. Usually we do stupid sketches. They're not stupid. Well, I mean, I bring the stupid. You bring the smart and thoughtful performance. You're so sweet. You sweet talk. But we got to keep it classy today.

because you got a classy new show. Congratulations. Yeah, the show. You didn't realize? You were just coming by to say hi? Yeah, I thought we were just hanging out here. Oh, I'm sorry. This just got weird.

I feel like every time I see you, it's like, what are you up to? You're like, well, I've got this TV series. I've got three movies. I just wrapped. I have a book. I've got music. I literally just came from a movie. I figured.

Like I literally did an overnight shoot to like 5, 6 a.m. And then we went straight on the plane here. insane. Which movie was this? It's called Break My Heart a Thousand Times. It's based off a famous book. And it's, it's a ghost thriller type deal. Nice. Now, would you rather be at Coachella right now than talking to me here, be honest? Honestly, me and Lowe have had a little bit of Coachella FOMO, but we have been having fun and I am very happy I'm here because we've been trying to name all the bad things about Coachella, like the dust storm and getting sick all the time. And the four mile walk, traffic. Yeah. Yeah, we just ex out like the whole fun music. Yeah, what positive stuff is there really, honestly, when we get right down to it, right?

Yo, fuck, Coach. And, wait, did you also wrap, I wanted to ask you, before we get into Famous and Love, did you wrap the Xavier Doan movie, too? Yeah, yeah, done with that one. I'm excited about that one, too. Oh, hey, thanks. I'm excited, too. All my scenes are with Jessica, and she was so amazing to work with. literally a fairy god princess i swear to god she is jessica chastain around here she comes up pretty much

in every podcast she's the best isn't she though like she doesn't she have this like oozing fairy dust she's just the coolest yeah um okay so let's talk a little bit about this uh this show which i saw the first episode it's very it's very cool it came from a book that was very successful um and obviously you have experience in television needles to say were you looking for another series was it Give me sense of how this one came. Well, Famous and Love came around when I was 14. I read the book, and I put a quote on the book. I was actually on Shake It Up.

And then I wrapped Shake It Up and we were doing movies. And me and my manager, Thor, were talking about getting into a TV show. And I gave him the book. He loved it too. And then we reached out to Marlene King because he has Ashley Benson on Pretty Little Liars. And so he knows her really well. She read it, loved it. So she made a script for it and everything.

And then we went over season arcs and then we sold it to nine different networks and we chose ABC free form. Nice. So what made this one exciting the first time you read it and what makes it still exciting these years later that's worth obviously devoting this much time to it? I mean, it's pretty exciting no matter what. It's cool in the way that I get to do something that is showing what Hollywood is very much like. You know, everybody has this idolized, glitzy idea of Hollywood, and it can be very glitzy. Sure. But at the same time, it can also be very fucked up and dark.

And, you know, it definitely has its downfalls, which we don't really get into so much of the pilot. But towards the end of the season, we have, it gets pretty dark on, yeah, it gets pretty dark. It's fun. And this character, unlike you, I mean, is a character that kind of just had a flush of success. Like she just, you know, overnight almost. She becomes like a phenomenon thanks to this big franchise, this big film that she gets involved in. Are you, you know, in retrospect, I mean, you know, we're dealt the hand we're dealt with in terms of how we, you know, accomplish things in life. Are you kind of happy with kind of like your own trajectory?

Will you have almost rather had it kind of like happen overnight as opposed to kind of sustained ups and downs, et cetera, over the years? I mean, I think it almost never happens overnight. It's very rare that it does. But like Zendaya, that was her first thing, shake it up. And that was basically overnight. So it does happen, but it is very rare. And I'm happy to have had the upbringing in Hollywood that I've had because I think where as Paige is really shocked by it all and everything's like, oh my God, this is so much.

Like, how do I deal with this? For me, it's just very normal. and it's not that big of a deal. And I know how to control it pretty well just because I've just literally grown up in it. And it's very much normal. It's actually not normal for me to find no photos of me online every day that are new. Like that is very unnormal.

If I go in my tag photos and I don't see any random paparazzi shots of my acne and like me walking about my house. And I'm like, whoa, guys, what happened today? Are we at war? What's going on? What is going on? Like, oh, no, is something really big about to break tomorrow? Like, oh, goodness.

So, I mean, do you, and does part of you kind of crave that? Or is it kind of just like, because it's so normal, like you're like, you know, it kind of keeps you going, being a part of the pop culture conversation and being. It is like any part of Hollywood, it definitely is up and down. Like, if you look fucking fabulous and you're walking out of your house and you're like, yes, somebody, please get a photo of me. because this outfit is serving it today. And then there are the other times. Don't waste this, my God. Yeah, exactly.

Don't waste this. Like, somebody get a photo of it. And then there are the other times where, like, I, I almost never wear makeup unless I'm doing shit like this. And so then there's the other times where my acne's showing and, like, I really want to go out of the house wearing ugs and, like, a shirt. And I can't. Or sometimes I do.

And then I'm like, ugh. Well, there's that photo. Yeah, that's me, guys. And in terms of, like, you know, your relationship, which we've talked about, I've talked about with many people about your relationship with social media, which is, like, again, it's, in a weird way, it's part of the job of being an actor nowadays, and particularly someone your age, it would be weird if you didn't, you know, access it. And my sense is it's not, maybe it is part of it, is it a job for you?

But it is? Would you say that? Oh, yeah, it's such a job. It's actually, like, I bought a house this year, and I started out, like, 18. with literally not a cent to my name, like literally. Actually, though, $200 in my bank account when I turned 18. What? Nothing else, yeah.

And I bought a house this year from social media work, only from social media work. So my social media to me is how I pay my bills. Like you, it's true what they say in acting that like when you do movies and stuff, they don't really pay, you know? Like they do, of course. But, you know, they don't. in a sense of you have a lawyer and a manager and an agent and a publicist and three other lawyers and this person and that person and everybody takes a cut and then you have taxes and everything else so and especially then if you're filming out of like out of the country then you're getting

those taxes and your taxes too so you're literally ending up with not even a fraction of what you had when you sign the contract so for me yeah social media is how I make everything so your Instagram post like you would you know I'm drinking vitamin water whatever that's what actually pays the bills as opposed to like doing a month on a film yeah 100% all yeah 100% it's actually very shocking to me like when I meet people that hate social media that are in the business that are my age or around my age and they're like oh no I just hate it like I won't do anything and I'm just like dude you are so kind of ungrateful like it to me social media has it's good and it's bad of course like everything does but for the most part if you're using

in your social media for good, that shit is the bomb. Well, and it's enabling you to pursue the art you want to pursue. Yeah, and it's so cool. Like, you get to talk to people every day that are going through the same shit that you are or different problems than you are and, you know, you get to express your feelings towards them and like that to somebody halfway across the world that you would never, ever get to talk to her meet in general, but you do because of social media. That is, that's amazing.

And does the good by, you know, mostly, outweigh the bad in terms of, I mean, you're obviously very open online and you've been like, and it's, and it probably connects you with a lot of people when you talk about depression or sexuality or whatever, and that's great. But, you know, we, I mean, in my small little bubble, I see the haters.

I can only imagine what you go through every day. Yeah, it's so many haters. It is. But then it's like, then it's mostly people that just want me to reply or they just want me to block them. Right. They're just getting a one response. Yeah, they just want something. And so they think that hate is what is going to get them there. But you can only drive out hate with love. You can't drive out hate with hate. So I always, I try to keep it really positive. But some people say some shit. Yeah. Just gets right under the skin. I have to reply. Because either one, this is a really funny diss. And like, I actually appreciate you. You like, you really went out of your way for this one. Or other times, I'm just like, are you ignorant? Are you literally a dumb ass? Like, I. I don't even know how you could say something so ignorant and crude and how you could post it online for everybody else to see and everybody else to get on. Like the kind of person that that makes you to want everybody else to just hate, I don't care, who it is.

You want other people to come with you in your little army and just like beat down on somebody. You are a disgusting person. You are disgusting. I mean, at the same time, when you put yourself out there like that, it takes a really strong person. like to actually, I mean, it's one thing to talk about like, yeah, I can let it, you know, roll off my back and I'll, and I'll answer it with love. And I'm sure you do 99% of the times, but you're a human being. And it's got to get to you at a certain point. And like, have you ever, you know, been tempted to just literally delete Twitter, delete Instagram and just go off the grid? Or is it just so you can't. I've never been on that side where, like, it's just so much that it's, I can't. But I've been on the side where. it's so much that I can't go on my Twitter because it's so annoying. Luckily, on Instagram, I can

choose not to see what people are commenting. I just don't go on my comments. It's that easy. But on Twitter, it isn't that easy because to see the good, you have to see the bad. And, you know, sometimes there's only been one point where I was just like,

wow, like this fucking sucks. Like, this feels bad. Like, it really, it gets to me like it is actually hurting me mentally and you know that time has passed or whatever but it's only happened once and I really wanted to put the snake emoji on my on my Instagram bio that would be really funny but me and Lowe thought of that idea way after the incident so we were like damn it no we should have done that yeah so when it when is the uh you know is there a limit on like at this

point what you will post about, again, talking about sort of the kind of personal stuff that you, frankly, are pretty cool with, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Certain thing you've regretted saying. It got so real is because I had Snapchat. I had a personal private Snapchat, and then Snapchat was like, yo, if you don't make a public one, we're about to delete your shit. So that's that.

And so I had to make a public one. And then I got on my public. Then I started only using my public. Now I don't have a private. And if I'm posting to my friends, well, I'm not going to be different to my friends than I am going to be to the rest of the world. Right. So it just got so real on my Snapchat that now it's just become real everywhere on every social platform for me, which is totally chill. You know, it's totally fine.

What was your question? No, I think you got to it. I guess I was asking if there's something you've regretted posting that kind of thing. Oh, right, right, right. anything that I don't, that I, like, keep from not posting. No. No. It's usually other people that I'm with that are like, hey, no, no.

They're not living that life. Yeah. This is not me. And, like, I've had somebody that I almost started dating that was like, yo, no, I don't like the whole social media thing. And I literally was like, you should just hang up right now. Like, we should get off FaceTime. And I was like, why?

And I was like, because this is never going to work. Like, I am super out there. I'm super honest. And, like, as soon as I walk out of my house, boom, paparazzi, we're not going to never leave my house because we can't get, like, a photo and we're trying to keep things on the DL. Like, I'm not a DL. I'm, like, way high key.

And if you don't want to be high key, then just don't even talk to me. Just literally, don't text me, don't call me, don't Snapchat me. Like, literally don't talk to me because somebody's going to find out somewhere in the world. And then you're going to go cry about it. and I'm just not dealing with those tears. This is Happy Say I Confused. We'll be right back after this. The Jeep Grand Cherokee 4x E.

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I see boogie-woogie-woogies after you begging, please take me with you. The electrified Jeep Grand Charity 4xE. Learn more at jeep.com. Jeep is the registered trademark of FCAUS LLC. And what about the fact that does the social media stuff and just living the life you lead affect the work in terms of, do you feel like there are any ramifications in terms of like a producer or director that does or doesn't want to work with you, but based on that side of your life? No, I've only ever had good come in. the acting industry from my socials, for the most part in acting, it's so much about being

real, being authentic, wearing no makeup, being as real as you can, that when directors see me as a public image, well, they think one thing, but then they actually follow me on Snapchat, and then they see me every day and how really it is just me. And then they're like, holy shit, like, I just don't know another actress that's your age that is so real and open or they see my tweets about depression or they see this and they're like wow you're actually helping people that is so cool like good for you you're putting yourself out there in an uncomfortable position to help other people feel more comfortable sure but you have to make yourself feel uncomfortable for to do that first and so mostly I haven't ever had a director it's only like

what people say in the business one time I like got this film and before I had the film the director was like, yeah, you know, I've heard some stuff about you, obviously. And I was like, oh, what have you heard? And he was like, oh, you know, just the usual. And I was like, no, please, tell me. And I didn't want to seem too eager to know. And he was like, oh, just about what people say about every young girl. And I was like, which is?

And he was like, you know, just that you're a little crazy. And I was like, let me stop you right there. And I looked him dead in the eye. And I was like, I am crazy. And he was like, oh. You think you know crazy. You don't know crazy. Yeah, exactly.

And he was like, oh, wow, okay. And then he's like, but like, I meet you and I talk to you and I see you and like, yeah, you are crazy. You're just, you're crazy authentic. Like, you're crazy in a cool way. And I was like, look, people want to think I'm crazy because I got the colored hair and I got a, I got a nose piercing and I got tattoos when I want to. But it's really just me, it's just chilling, me being me. You guys want to say I'm crazy? Go ahead.

Because I am. I think the first, I was thinking back when I knew you were coming in like the first time we met. And I think it might have been for blended, frankly. It was like three or four years ago, right? And we did some fun shoots with you and Drew and Adam, which was a blast. And I just, I was thinking back. And, you know, I knew of your work. I mean, obviously, it wasn't like the demo that was seeing your stuff at that time.

But I remember being really struck by just like your personality or your authentic personality. It's just like your work ethic. No, I'm serious. No, I'm just saying that like it was something that were, I remember after we did that shoot that day, I was like, I was not surprised that to suffice. to say that we ended up doing a lot of stuff together over the next few years. That was fun. And I guess I'm curious, like, where I found you at, like, when you were doing Blended,

had the show ended by that? I'm trying to remember. Yeah, the show ended. And were you feeling like, were there bumps in the road in terms of, like, trying to figure your career outposts of the show? Oh, yeah. So many. It was actually really hard to get a job after the show, to be completely honest.

People didn't want to read me. They didn't want to see me because they were like, she's a Disney actress. And I was on HBO before that. I'd only done drama. And so for me, it was like literally starting back at the bottom and working my way up all the way again. And I had one casting director that was like, she really did not want to read me. And she had hired me on two projects before, shake it up. And we were like, whoa, what the hell?

Like, I don't understand. I was like, just tell her that I will literally send in a tape. I will go and I'll do anything. Just have her see my shit. And so she ended up reading me, and in the audition, she's like, after I'm done, she's like, I just want to apologize. I'm really sorry. Like, I really, really misjudged you. I'm never going to do that again. And I had that happen to me quite a few times. And it took a while for people to, it still has that effect on people. Like, it doesn't matter that I literally have nine movies that I haven't shot yet. Like, it doesn't matter that I have shit coming out. that really sticks. It just irks people. And it's stuck with everybody.

I mean, it's stuck with everyone from Timberlake to Gosling all the way up to you. I mean, it's just one of those things. That was just one of the phases. Like, and do you think that I wanted to be a Disney girl? Right. Like, did you think that I wanted to do that? Like, we literally were about to live actually, like, physically on the street, literally on the street if I didn't have that role. Like, we were living off of Stofer.

for coupons that we got from an event. And that's all we had to eat every day. And like, that may not sound like a big deal to everybody, but when you're a single mom raising four kids with debt and you have literally nothing to your name, yeah, it's fucking shitty. And I didn't want to audition for Shake It Up. I literally said in my audition, I was like,

I don't sing, I don't dance, I'm basically tone death, and I'm not funny. So I don't know why I'm here. And everybody just started laughing, all the execs. They all thought it was a joke. And then I was like, no, seriously. And then they just started laughing more and they just thought that I was so real

and authentic and then they wanted to change me and now I'm back to being me again. And does that where you think like the work ethic comes from nowadays like in terms of like why you're like literally always going from project to project and like juggling a thousand things because it's it might all go away if I don't keep working or something

or I think that part of the reason why I keep myself so busy is I don't like being alone. I don't like leaving myself with my mental thoughts right because that is scary and it is a part of life that you do have to grow up and get over and and everything else and it's healthy to do that but it it is hard to do it and so for me I'm just so used to working two movies at once

and doing the show and doing a movie it's a healthier headspace for you to be in when your mind is active with a few things with with with everything and like even if I'm not not working on something, which never happens, I'm writing my show. Like, I'm literally writing a screenplay, or I'm like, you know, going to be directing something soon, or I'm doing this or I'm doing that. I'm literally always doing more than one thing. She's typing right now. Guys, I'm literally writing my show right now.

Is there anything that you're not getting offered right now that you wish would come your way in terms of that type of role? Yeah, of course. Like, you know, you always want bigger and better. What I really want to do is a dope action hero character, you know, think like Tomb Raider type deal, Laura Croft, like... Right. You want to kick a little ass. Yeah, and I'm pretty damn good at it.

And when I do, I do all my own stunts, which fucks me up because, like, I almost crack my ribs on this movie. And, like, I just got, I, like, hit my head really hard and, like, I got all these fucking bruises all over my body. and like it's just it hurts but I'm really I'm really good at like I do a lot of boxing and I'm a very physical person and because of my background in dance I'm pretty good at faking things and making things look realistic in my body so it's it is it's fairly easy and you know I got some I got some anger in there that I'm ready to use it for good yeah yeah exactly Let's channel it, like kicking a bunch of ass. So have you, do you often go out for things you don't get that, that bothers you?

Like, are you there role, what's the last time that you don't have to name the specific thing, but like. Something that I didn't get. Does that still happen where like you're going after something? There was one huge movie that I really, really, really wanted with Robert Rodriguez and James Cameron and I tested and I tested and I tested and I tested. and I tested, and, like, I hung out with Robert. We are still on a texting basis, and he is so amazing to work with. And I remember, like, after I tested and everything, we just grabbed coffee. I was like, like, even if I don't get this role, because I have a feeling I'm not going to,

and he's just, like, looking at me, like, yeah, you're not going to get it. And I was like, I just want to, like, I want to assist you because I want to study directly. and you are so talented, yeah, and he is so fascinating, like between his takes, how he has people stay in character, so he has them paint. And, like, I love painting. He always puts his, he does a cooking school and all his DVDs. He always likes that. Yeah, he does cooking a lot.

Yeah, he does that. And in his other time, he's having people paint their character. That's awesome. And, like, then after the movie's done, he paints it as well. Like, he paints the character on top of the character. It's just so, such an interesting way of. learning and I just felt very connected to the character and that was the only movie that I like was like just dying to have but it's always the ones that you're dying to have

that you just don't get right right and you're like oh man it'll come around it'll come around okay so let's bring it full circle to this one so you shot the all 10 episodes I think are gonna be they're they're ready they're ready for the public watch them anybody want to watch them you can if you don't want to watch it just turn your TV on give us viewers please Do you know, wait, did you know this? Have we discussed this? That in the book that this is based on, there is a character named Josh Harwort, who is an MTV correspondent?

Do you remember this from the book? You probably don't, but. I kind of do, yeah. He's described as being super chill and just, like, friendly with the actors. Because, correct me if I'm wrong, is this loosely, is there some twilight inspiration in this book at all in terms of the love triangle aspect or no? Um, it is, and especially in the locked series, which is like the, the movie inside the series. Right, exactly.

In the locked, yes, there definitely is that. And it also is in the way that, like, when I describe it, I'm like, my character gets casted in a Twilight saga, basically. Right. Where it's, like, it's of fame of, of Twilight. Like, it's that big of a series. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and that fandom. And, yeah, it does kind of.

have a little bit of a of a twilight feel in that sense. And yes, I guess with the love triangle, it does, yeah. Right, right. All I'm saying is when you go to season two, as you know, I act, Bella. I've acted with you many times. And I feel like if you cast somebody else as Josh Horwort, I'm going to be a little bit annoyed. I will make sure. I will call Marlene and be like, you know, you got to put John.

His name is basically there. It's there. We're halfway there. But the problem is that you're going to have to end up playing a character who's going to fuck over somebody because that's Every single character in the series has a downside. That's fine. I'm ready to go dark. Enough of this nice guy, Josh shit.

As long as you're okay, you're mean. Okay. You've only seen the good side. You feel genuinely bad. You're like, wow, I feel terrible now. No, my soul is dead. I can't feel nothing anymore, Bella. It's okay.

And what do you have to do next? Show this is obviously all done. If all 10 are ready for the world, what's the next gig? You're yawning, so you're going to take a nap. I have to finish this movie. The one you did the night shoot on. Break my heart. I have a song coming out.

I have more music coming out. And after I do my press today, then I'm going to go do a photo shoot for the cover of the song. Oh, nice. Yeah, I think you'll like it. It's actually a good song. You sound surprised. Well, I'm always genuinely surprised when things, I'm always like a glass half empty. So when things come out actually pretty good.

And then I'm like, oh, wow. Like, is this, you know, is this actually good? And then I, like, ask Lowe. And Lowe's like, this is actually a banger. Like, let's play it again. Like, I don't want to jam out to it. It's got a little bit of a chain smoker's vibe to it, I would say. So that's fun.

And then I have more music coming out. I'm writing a series, which is not just famous in love. I'm writing something else. I'm about to direct a short called Her and Him that I wrote that I'll also be in, Star again, I guess. And then I'm about when I go home. I shoot like four more movies and then I go back into my show and then once I end the show probably in October, then I'll do three more movies to finish off the year and then I'll start again.

Okay, this is, I fell into the trap again that I said at the beginning of the interview, which is whenever I ask you what's coming up, I feel so tired and old. Well, congratulations on the new show and the 15 other projects you're working on while this interview was going on. We'll talk again soon. We'll do something stupid. Stupid. Smart and intelligent and cool.

Hell, yeah. Right? Smart, intelligent, cool, and fun. That's the most important. You can forget fun. Words of wisdom from Bella Thorne. It's good to see you, buddy. Good to see, too.

Everybody, please. Watch the damn show. Please. What else are you doing with your lives? Just, get. If you're not going to watch it, just leave your TV on, please. That's the least they can do for me. She's putting herself out there for you.

What more do you want? Thanks, Bella. Oh, thank you. Oh, thank you. Once again, that was Bella Thorne. You can catch all of Famous in Love on Freeform, their website, their social media apparatus. Whatever you can find media, you will find. Social media apparatus.

That's how a 97-year-old man describes. Social media. On the snapbook. Next up on. the Myspace. Next up on the podcast this week, someone I've wanted to have on for a long while, the great Anne Hathaway. So great. She, Oscar winner, Oscar host, brilliant performer and so many great films from The Princess Diaries all the way through Brokeback Mountain and Dark Night Rises. And now in a new film called Colossal, which you guys need to see.

It's a bizarre but great film. In the conversation, we purposely don't talk much about the plot because this is one of those movies you shouldn't know too much going in. But here's what you need to know. It's Anne Hathaway. It's Jason Sudeikis. Anne Hathaway kind of plays a bit of a mess of a young woman who's, you know, maybe has some alcohol issues, some relationship issues. And she finds that there is an odd kind of connection between her and a giant lizard monster in Korea. I know. It's crazy. But it's filled with it's kind of defies genre. It's a bit of drama. It's a bit of comedy. Certainly some sci-fi elements, but it's, it is wholly unique. And I definitely recommend it. It's a special little

movie. And Anne is very passionate about it. Hence her visit to Happy Second Fuse this week. And yeah, this is a great conversation. She's, she's very honest and open about sort of the ups and downs of her career and sort of like the annoying kind of shit she's been through in terms of her image, in terms of people kind of giving her hell and kind of coming out the other side of it and figuring out how to sort of like lead a healthier lifestyle in terms of not letting that kind of stuff bother her. She's in a good place. She's now a mom.

We're so happy for her there. And yeah, and we recount the amazing story, as told on previous happy second fuse of Anne Hathaway witnessing me being heckled by a crazy man on the streets of New York. So that's relived in startling detail from all perspectives. Now we just need the crazy guy to be on to tell that story. I feel like you can get him. You can probably book him. He's available.

And yes, Sam, we talk about laymise, of course, and musicals. She really wants to do a musical. I really want her to. Because she's got the chops. She definitely is the chops. You know how I feel about people doing musicals who don't have the chops. You're not going to name any names, but you've denigrated some great actors. I'm saying she's got the chops.

I'll allow it. I'll allow it. Again, you should talk to her because she's trying. You should have not hidden me. Let me finish my sentence. I'm just saying she's trying to figure out what musical to do. She doesn't have one in mind. Do you have one in mind for her?

That's like she was saying a lot of the parts, frankly, aren't age-appropriate for her anymore, et cetera. So she's trying to find that right one. She would be a really good fontaine in Leibis. You're fired. Your career counselor. No, I need a minute to think about it. I'll get it on the next intro. Okay, fair enough.

Enjoyed this conversation with Anne Hathaway. As I said, check out Cossil in theaters. And we'll see you guys on the other side next week. A lot of good guests coming up. I'm not going to say it. I don't want jinx some. Don't jinx it. But it's kind of crazy.

We're doing pretty well, guys. You guys should listen again. Yeah. Subscribe. Rate. Subscribe. It's too much. I'd always forget to tell people to do that, though.

Well, you just said it four times. Okay. Tell your friends. Spread the good word of happy, stand, and confused. And here's Anne Hathaway. Or Annie, if you prefer. I do. Okay.

Annie. Here's Annie. Anne Hathaway has nailed Mike technique here in the podcast studio at MTV. She's kind of the best at it, guys. Got those skills. It's good to see you, Ann. Very nice to see you. The movie is colossal.

I love this movie. I think you know that. We talked briefly at Toronto when it debuted. We're going to talk a bit about the movie. We're going to talk about some other things. We're going to convey the massive love that there is for this movie for film geeks like myself. But you've got kind of like you've got the cool movie in theaters now. One of them, certainly.

Because, you know, I mean, often you have a cool movie, but it's kind of like the, you you know, the mass appeal kind of like, you know, it's the marquee movie. And you've got kind of like the little movie that could. That's a little bit off the beaten path. It's, and I mean that in a nice, in a good way. I take it all of. Good, good. But that's got to be refreshing and exciting that you're promoting a different kind of a movie doing your career.

Yeah. It is, it's nice to get to speak to people such as yourself whose lives revolve around films and to hear that you surprised them and to hear that they didn't see it coming, that they were refreshed and delighted. and all the lovely adjectives that people have been using. That has been wonderful because I feel all those things about the movie too. And it's funny, my makeup artist today reminded me that we had worked on a shoot together just before I read this script where I was wondering if I should stop acting.

Because I wasn't sure if I was going to have access to the sort of stories that I wanted to tell at that moment. And I just, you know, was curious looking at the balance of what it costs to sell a film and putting yourself out there versus the quality of the stories that I was reading. And I wasn't sure that it was going to continue to be worth it.

And then this one came along. So what kind of... Let's revel in the sadness first for it gets at the happy stuff. What were the kind of material you were getting that was bumming you out? I mean, you're, you know, you're pretty much at the top of the heap,

if not closer to the top of the heap in terms of the material you would get, I would... And if you're not getting good material, that's a little bit alarming. Thank you. But, you know, peaks and valleys in everybody's career,

and I think that you could describe that moment as a little bit of a valley. It was, by the way, I just have to say, I'm aware that I'm raising the ends of all my sentences. I don't know why I'm doing that. It's been a long day, so excuse me if you're listening to this and that's annoying. I don't know what you're talking about.

And I beg your pardon. So, just the nice girl. Yeah. Just the nice girl. I was getting the nice girl a lot. And there's nothing wrong with the nice girl. I try to be nice, you know, as much as I can in my life. but that's not necessarily interesting as an actor yeah yeah i didn't know like i didn't want to

i don't want to i didn't want to become someone's girlfriend or wife i didn't want to be the harried mother i love that amy schumer joke about you know like you know how all of a sudden women get portrayed about hating sex um when they're when they're married and they're like you know i hate your dick laundry laundry you know so you saw a couple of those i love her i love her show so much. And I love train wreck too. So, you know, I read those, and I was starting to see stuff like that. And it was just, it was, I was getting a little bummed by the prospect that it could all be leading there as it, as it has for, I've got to say, a lot of really talented ladies. Yeah. But it hasn't. So I'm, I'm grateful. I'm really, really grateful. It's, I'm heading towards

a peak again. So, and I know you kind of like put out the, the call to your folks, like, find me something a little bit different, try and find me something a little bit odd or quirky or whatever the adjective you assign to it is. So when this comes to you, do they tell you things about the script before you dive into page one? Like how surprised were you as you kind of started to access the material? Well, you get the log line, you get something. It depends. So little was known about this project. So little was known about this filmmaker. I think he had just been signed to CIA, which is the agency I'm with. So there wasn't, I don't think, And my team, I think one person had read it.

And so they didn't want to tip the balance. So we all read it at the same time, which is a very unique position. Normally, you're the last one to read everything. It's been like sort of vetted. And usually people have moved the ball down the field without you knowing it. And so we all read it blind at the same time. There came that moment where, you know, on Monday we got on the phone. It was like, what do you think?

And I've learned that I shouldn't be the first person to say what I think. I should let everybody go first. Right. Well, why is that? Because everybody will yes you or know you? I honestly don't think at this point, the people I work with, I think we have enough comfort with each other and respect and we've been through enough that they wouldn't do that to me. But in general, it's just a wise role in life to do it.

If you're the person who has to do the thing and make the final decision and you have people who potentially want to make you happy, the best thing to do is not say your opinion first. So, and it was just that thing we're, you know, waiting for the eyes to break. And then the bravest one goes, well, I liked it. And you're hoping for that. You're like, internally you're like, and I was hoping for that. And I was happy to hear it because I finished it and I turned to my husband and I just went, I, I love it. And it's so, you know, it's, it wasn't an intellectual decision. It wasn't like, oh, this could be good for my career or this would be a good strategic move. It was just, no, it's not a brain decision. It's a gut and a heart decision. I just love this movie. It

delighted me. It made me laugh. Can this guy pull it off? And then I checked out Nacho's short films and I knew, I saw what he did with no money, whatever, and the wit that he had and the humor he had. And it was even better. And I just knew that he was going to do it. I just had total faith in him. So are there still lessons to be learned at this stage of your career in terms of like the decision-making process based on something like this? Like, what do you take away, again, going with your gut maybe as opposed to, I mean, again, you're at a rarefied error in your career. So you don't necessarily, I mean, I guess everybody has to worry about, like, what does this mean for my career? But maybe hopefully you less so, and you can operate on more of a gut,

instinctual love basis than a, what's this going to mean for my name and my international appeal or whatever? Well, I don't have to worry about my name and my international appeal, not because they're invulnerable, but because they've been vulnerable. So I don't have to worry about that so much anymore because that chasm has already been flunged. You've weathered that storm.

You know what it's like to go through that. And I'm on the other side of that. And it doesn't make sense to care. You can't be tied up in that stuff. You can't let it affect you or really even take it in because it doesn't have anything to do with you. So what this one really taught me is that when I have an idea

and people tell me that They love it, but it's too weird, that there's a whole family of people out there that know exactly what I'm on to. And I should dig down and fight a little harder and represent us. Because you mentioned that film geeks love this movie. Well, I think I learned in this movie that I'm a film geek. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, and talk to me like, I mean, does this reflect you think your sensibilities and in what way as a film goer?

I think it does. I think it does because I like movies that stimulate you and make you think, but don't bring you down. You know, like, no, I don't think there's anything worse than really, because I'm a generous filmgoer. I really invest myself in movies. When the lights go down, you're ready to love it. I'm ready. I'm ready to laugh. I'm that way at the theater, too.

I think there's nothing braver. I'm not actually, that's nerd. There's a lot of other things that are braver. But I think that it's an incredibly brave thing. In terms of life, there's a lot of much braver things to do. I'm not rescuing anyone from the bottom of a volcano. That's your next movie. I'm, I'm Joe, and I'm going to be versed the volcano.

Hey. You could do three parts like Meg Ryan, whatever you want. So, sorry, what was the question? I don't even remember now. No, that's okay. Well, we were talking about... Being brave. Oh, being a generous audience member.

I want movies to succeed. I want plays to succeed. I want to root. I've root for everybody that made it because I've just, everybody, when you watch a movie, you're just watching whether or not it, I mean, binary stuff is so boring now, like good, bad, who cares. Right. Whatever it is, it means that people. spent time away from their families. People gave themselves. People woke up early. People ate

questionable food. People drove to remote locations. People worked really, really, really hard. They moved big trucks around. They built sets. They painted things. They dreamed. They stuck their neck out. And even if they failed, I just think you got to keep all that in mind. You know, so I really, I want to love movies. And I do love movies. And it's very rare to, if I'm something totally unworthy about something, you know. So if this had come around five years ago or seven or eight years ago, were you in a different place in terms of would you have been more risk-averse, more different headspace in terms of, forget about the, what, the age of the character, whatever, that kind of a thing.

No, no, no, no, I get you. I just think I probably would have sucked more. Like, not, yes, as an actress, too, but I just mean, like, I'm in a place in my life now where I'm really ready to trust people, and I'm ready to trust my instincts about that seems like a person, he can tell the story. I don't know that much about him, but I believe in him. I'm ready to trust my own instincts. So I think that five or seven years ago, which I think I would have leapt in and then gotten scared. Right. And I think that would have made me be a sucky person to be around. Right, right. That's not a good place to come at trying to create something

special. I think it would have come in really, really strong and then gotten gold feet. And that that just would have been. Right. And I don't think that energy would have contributed to the project because I do think that part of the reason why the movie works so well is that the people that were in it

kept saying yes. Jason said yes. Yeah. You know, Tim Blake Nelson said yes. So many members of the crew. They just, and even, I was so impressed, so many people told me during the process,

you know, I didn't totally understand this film when it started, but I trusted that there was something there because of all the people involved. And I just, I think that the film has that quality in its DNA. Totally. So let's go back if we could, since we have a little bit of time here, at least to chit-chat.

You grew up, you know, I grew up as a New Yorker. You grew up, a Jersey girl. Where are New York you from again? The mean streets at the Upper West Side. Pretty rough. Wait a minute. So did you grow up near the museum? Yeah, that was the...

Was that rad? That was literally the school trip. So, like, Museum of Natural History was across the street from my public school. And, like, as you can imagine, every other week, it's like, let's go back and look at the giant dinosaurs. And it never lost its novelty. It was amazing. No, I mean, you know, it's got, I was walking by the, the, the Central Park Zoo the other day, and I saw a seal doing a handstand. I didn't pay to go in. I was just, like, walking by it.

You jump the fence. That's what Anne does. She just, just, just, you know, just, that's a non-nice. No, I was, I was just walking by and I was pushing my son, and the seal did a handstand, and I freaked out. So I think I would, I still freak out over the dinosaurs, too. Totally. So, and you, I mean, it sounds like, you know, New York was where you wanted to be. Correct me from wrong. Right? And was that based on, your mom was obviously an actress, was that, was that instilled from the beginning and was part of the obsession or love with New York of like getting to theater there, getting to whatever, whatever that, what did that represent to you, what did New York

represents at the time? You know, I try not to live in the regrets of my life. I wish that I'd been nicer in my mind to my town growing up because it was a really nice place to grow up. My parents, sure. My parents did good. It just wasn't New York. And so I feel like I was possibly a little meaner.

to it than I needed to be. It's a lovely. Melbourne, New Jersey is a lovely place. So I just, I knew that everything I wanted was in a, was, you know, existed in New York.

And I lived on, you know, down the block for me, there was a fence and behind the fence there were the train tracks and I could hear the trains going to Manhattan all the time. And it's, and I was even aware when I was a kid, I'm like, this is really romantic. But I really did, used to lie in bed and listen to the train and wish that I was on it.

I walked to the top of the hill that my street was on, and I could see the lights reflecting off the city. It was a great motivator to dream. You're listening to Happy, Sad, Confused. We'll be right back after this. What were you, if I met you at 15 years old, what would I've described you as? Were you? Hyper. Probably annoying.

I think sweet would have gotten in there. I think I was a sweet person, but I just was going at too many different speeds, you know? I didn't understand my brain. I think I was so insecure that I tried to cover it up by being a no-it-all. But there was a real sweetness there, a real innocence. I just think that where I probably was a little bit insufferable was in trying to come off as more worldly than I was. And when did you start to go by Anne versus Annie? I know, like, in your personal life, everybody calls you Annie.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it wasn't even a thing. It was just I got a commercial and I needed my sag card. And I made the decision to go by Anne Hathaway because it was my birth name. And I remember, like, years later, but not like too many years later, I was still young. I had a meeting. No, actually, it was a meeting. I can't.

No, I didn't audition. It was just a meeting, which for a project I didn't get with someone who was the ex-manager of an actress that I really. admired and she told me to change my name to Annie and I didn't know what she was talking about and now I wish I'd taken her advice. Really? Well, yeah, because I feel like I tell everybody to call me Annie anyway, so it just feels like the Anna's just... It's an extra layer of you're always dealing with. It is, it is, but... When you're at Starbucks, do you say Annie or Anne? Annie. Okay. I mean, to be honest, I usually make up names. Do you really? Yeah. What's the, is there, is there an odd one I should look out for when you're shot at Starbucks? No, no, no, I usually go

with Sophia? It's very telling. I don't know. Your fantasy life is Sophia. It's very, very grounded. No, because you don't want to make it too exotic. Right. Because also, to be fair, the people who work at Starbucks work very, very hard, and they don't

need somebody giving them an impossible to spell name. Sophia with a P and an F. What? Just come on. Yeah, that's me. Do you remember the guy who was like on some kind of crusade to make Starbucks say Merry Christmas? And he, like, was like, my name. It was Merry Christmas.

You have to write it on the cup. I missed that, but that's amazing. Oh, man. I was like, oh, God, because there's nothing else going on. I'm going to try and do that with a happy Hanukkah this coming season. Wish me luck. Good luck. It's an uphill battle.

How do you say good luck in Hebrew? I don't know that one. Oh, Donie, I am the least Jewish Harowitz you've ever met. I was not Bar Mitzvud. I am an affront to my people. Was that your choice? Yeah, we just, we did like, you know, we ostensibly, and we still do the Jewish holidays, but we also did, we had a Christmas tree.

Like, we were one of those. But what does that have to do? with not getting bar mitzvahed. Well, just meaning like the religion part of it, it was more cultural than religious for us. Did you, do you have, I mean, did you wish that you got marmitsvah? Did you go to other kids' bar mitzvahs? I went to others. It seemed like a whole to do I didn't want to deal with.

I'm a very antisocial person despite my job in. You didn't want a new suit? A new suit at 13? Yeah. My little big boy suit? No, I was good. I'm still good. You know, if things turn, you know, go badly and I eat some cash influx.

I'll find God and I'll have a bar mitzvah at like 45. And there's a revenue stream right there. Oh, you've got a whole plan. Tell your parents to relax. Actually, I think you're going to be okay. You're doing just fine. Okay, well, we'll see. No, really, like every time I've seen you, I remember when you started and you've just gone from strength to strength.

You must be really happy. I'm very happy. I get to talk to people that I'm, you know, fans of, and I get to, you know, geek out for, and they pay me for it, which is insane. Isn't that crazy? And sometimes people heckle me in the streets, and then people I know my professional wife come to my defense. So I mentioned this in the podcast before. Let's mention this because it's just such a weird quintessential New York story. This is like six months ago.

I was walking and here's the irony of it. I remember I was literally looking at the Toronto Film Festival lineup on my phone in a daze and I noticed that colossal was going to be there. I was psyched about that. And then a guy just started screaming at me. Yeah, yes. You weren't even particularly in his way. No, and then out of the corner of my eye, I see Anne with her child and her husband

and I'm just like mortified and confused by the whole situation. and you were, I think you were confused too, but it was just one of those moments. You know, I just, I remember you were, I don't know, did you feel, I just feel like when stuff like that happens to me, it's like my cells freak out and they run all in different directions. Yeah, you just got like a hot flash and like everything. Exactly. I have a British friend who calls it funny bum feeling. My bum felt very funny at the time.

And, you know, and I was actually happy I was there because I feel like in those moments, if it just happens to you, you're like, guess what happened to me today? Yeah, you need a witness. Yeah, exactly. I was happy to be your witness. Thank you. I felt like we righted each other's ships. You did.

And then we managed to send some compassion and love to that man's way because he was not. Not in a good way. No, things were not going to well. No, no way he made us feel and how many directions our electrons were freaking out in. We were still having a better day than him. This is true. This is true. Good.

You're so compassionate. I was so selfish. I'm like thinking about myself. And you're right. He had a shudier life than me probably and still does. Well, I don't know about that. But I can say, I think his day was probably. Okay, so let's talk.

Okay, moving through the amazing filmography, we can't ignore, of course, Princess Diaries, which changed the course of your career in life, I'm sure. Certainly did. Did success at that time feel like what you had been dreaming of in Jersey as a kid? Like, oh, my God, I'm in this huge Disney movie. It's, you know, Julie Andrews, it's crazy. Was it, did it live up to the expectations? You know, the success did, and I was still myself.

And that was confusing for a long time. Right. You were expecting to change. Yeah. You know, like it's the same way some, I mean, I've gotten over it now, but when I was younger and you just, I hate to say this, but you just hate everything about yourself. You're so uncomfortable in your own skin. You don't have a kind word for yourself.

And then you have these people who are the best of what they do and their profession is to make your hair look amazing and make your face look amazing and put you in the greatest clothes that money can buy or be lent or whatever. And you look in the mirror and it's just. you. And I and it my heart would sink every time because I wouldn't be those other women that I wanted to be. I wouldn't have transformed. I would just be me. And I know that's like such a poor little rich girl thing to say it's it's not that big a deal. Well it's an important lesson to learn though at whatever point in your life that whatever success you got to fix you. You got to

work on you not the rest of it. You got to stop saying mean things to yourself in your own head. You got to learn to love yourself and not want to and not want to transform just want to grow. Oh, you know, and that did take me a long time. And I feel like I was harder on myself than I would have been if I hadn't have been successful because I just wanted myself to understand it already. Because I felt like, look at all these good things that have happened to you. Why are you so behind on all this stuff? What's wrong with you?

And I mean, I hesitate to bring this up because we've talked about it. And I know you've talked about it with many people. And I feel like it's almost like just piling on at this point to talk about the kind of like the love, hate, weird thing that came with your name, especially in the wake of like this great professional moment for you. This kind of like, whatever it was, oversaturation point, whatever we want to call it. But what's curious to me, and I'm sure I would think you've observed this too, is it's not unique to you, sadly, what you kind of went through, I feel like. And I think it's, and scarily it seems tied to gender often too. Like I've seen.

Thank you for acknowledging that. Well, I have because even from my vantage point, I've seen like people I've talked to like Jennifer Lawrence and Kristen Stewart. I've seen that happen where like the world decides they love you and they anoint you and then they there's a compulsion to tear you down. And I don't I don't have the answer for what that's about. But it sounds like you've you for whatever reason, you know, you went through that and you probably had to take some time to kind of like reconcile what that all meant. I mean, have you come out, do you feel like you've come out on the other side of it where like you've, you know how to avoid that kind of roller coaster for the next time or you just know how to deal with it better? I don't think there's any avoiding it, because I don't think it has anything to do with me. Right. You know, I think that people, and what happened to me and what happens to other, thank you for saying women, because I do think that it is a gendered thing, it doesn't have that much to do with us. It's about, and if you're saying something mean about someone, you're saying something mean about someone. That's kind of the beginning and the end of it, right?

Yeah. Yeah. And I guess it's also just one of those things where the scary thing for me is like you can be very mature about it and sort of like intellectualize it. But it's such an emotional thing that it's probably hard at any age to kind of, I mean, hopefully we get better at it and kind of like just wiping it away. But I don't think you have to wipe it away. You know, I think that because I think the thing is, I think if you can surrender to it, anything that happens to you, an illness. we're all going to be given things that we don't want that are uncomfortable lessons we would not have chosen that find us anyway and for me the game changer was surrendering to it and not thinking you can control this you can and I'm not even just talking about this I'm talking about my relationships with other people stuff from my childhood you know and and also just really acknowledging I treated myself so badly for so many years why on earth would I I expect anyone else to do any differently. Right. You know, so it was also about owning it that I had, and, you know, this is a super woo-woo thing to say, but if you believe in karma, I'd made my own bed. Right.

I'd made my own bed. I gave everybody permission to say bad things about me, because I said them about me first. And so the quickest way to make it through to the other side of that was to say, thank you for making me actually feel what I was doing all those years. I'm not going to do it anymore, and I don't do it anymore. And so now whatever comes at me, I know, has nothing to do with me. And as having had a child who's recently celebrated his first birthday, congratulations. I mean, you know, there's, you know, talking to, I'm not a parent myself, but I know like the impulse to like, you know, if you're going to take care of someone else in this world, like, I better get my shit together and really like be in a position where I'm a little less selfish, a little bit more, just ready to kind of take care of someone else.

Did that kind of contribute to sort of just getting your act together, your brain together? Or do you feel like you before you had that child that it felt like you needed to kind of make some changes in your own life? I mean, talk about surrendering. Yeah. You know? I don't know. I don't know that it was a conscious thing like that. That's very neat.

Yeah. It's a good narrative. I was constructed. It's very neat that you can like go to checklist and now I will have a baby. I'm fixed now time to breed. And by the way, when are you going to have a kid? One of these days. One of these days, mom getting, stop, stop, stop.

Man, come on. Look, anyway, he, yeah, I mean, I feel like, I see, I feel differently about the world after having a baby. I see people differently, like that guy on the street. I didn't see anything other than someone who needed, who was in need. And I'm caring, along with my husband. right now. I'm caring for someone who needs. And I just look around and when I see people being angry or even when I see people being awful, you know, I don't say, oh, they're a bad person. It's bad to that binary thing. There's a place beyond it. I feel like now that I've held a child in my body

and now I hold a child in my arms, I don't think about it like that. And I'm just not interested in cutting anyone down anymore. And I do think that he's responsible for it because anyone could be him and he could be anyone. Let's get back to some superficial career talk. Yes, please. Because I'm just as interested in that stuff too. Can I tell you Peter Travers made me cry this morning?

What? You sang for him, I hope. He made me sing too. And it was really early and I was really tired and like, I was a baritone. We just, things got deep, man. Things got deep with Peter Travis. So, no, so please let's go back to something superficial. later. I feel like I'm dragging the whole

anybody that's following this right. I was like, Jesus, tell a joke. Well, not to say Brokeback Mountain is the lightest fair on the planet. That's your segue film? Well, I'm just going to say, I want to hit upon some of my favorites. And Rachel getting married, of course, is in there, too. Also not necessarily the lightest thing. That's their gut buster.

I was going to say. But are those two that you would count as kind of like cornerstone, like transformative experiences, angry and Jonathan Demi, obviously. Yeah. Yeah. You know, two amazing directors who saw something in me that I didn't that I hoped was there but didn't know for sure yeah you know and um and and just sorry and just and they're two men of such um such dignity and such um such purity uh in terms of their their artistry and honestly in terms of their life i know jonathan

a lot better than i i know ang but i love ang so much and to just be around them and to see how effortlessly, they were committed to being themselves. It had a huge impact on me. Being part of something like, and I remember I talked to you a bunch before, during and after, Dark Night Rises, which, you know, I know a much different kind of a filmmaker, I would say, than those guys, no less talented, and certainly the kind of filmmaker that can steer that biggest ship with as much humanity and... And intimacy. Yeah, yeah, those, I mean, it's the characters that make those films work, those giant scale films. And if anything, we've seen, frankly, you know, I'll say it because I can,

but like the DC movies that have come in its wake were more appreciative than ever of Christopher Nolan. That's a tough thing to do. Did that experience? Because also, that's a hell of an intimidating experience. I mean, you know you're in good hands with Nolan, but like that character is so iconic and had been done so well by several women.

Was that kind of a harrowing experience? Did it feel like you knew that character from the day one or what? I can't say it was harrowing. It was so deeply, satisfying to have so much asked of you and to be given the tools and the support that to do it you know so they say chris is like i want you to do this fight scene and here are people who can get you strong enough to do that and teach you how to fight and um you know and and so i treated the role

with a great deal i took it very seriously yeah and um i just felt so happy to to be there you know I'm sure a lot of people dreamed of being Catwoman when they were little, you know, little and saw the other performances out there. I know that, you know, I saw Michelle Pfeiffer and I just wanted that to be me. Sure. And then, of course, that wasn't me, but I got to do, put my stamp on it. I still can't believe that happened of, you know, because we don't, we don't get enough. Women don't get enough of those kinds.

There aren't enough out there for us. So, you know. When the opportunity comes. When the opportunity comes when you get the call. Oh, my God. I mean, of course, the goal is to get more opportunities out there for more people. Did they ever dangle any kind of situation where you'd get to do the role again? I mean, he was very clear on that he wanted it to be a trilogy.

Was there ever any hope that you would get to reprise that character again? I don't know. I don't know how serious it was. You know, there was a feeling like, wouldn't that be great? But I don't know that it ever formalized in any sort of way. Like, I know that Margot Robbie is going to play Harley Quinn again. And I think that she was very proactive in making that. happened for herself, I don't know that I was ever at that level that was ever that

real. Got it. And then Le Miz, which was obviously such an astonishing film and performance. And clearly it was emotional and important for you on a number of levels. Your mom, I know, played that role. Yeah. And was that the first like full on musical you had done it for film? Is that possible? Yeah, I'd sung a little bit in Ellen Chanted. Ellen Chanted, sure, for sure. But that was the first time. I mean, it's kind of one of the first full-on sung-through musicals there'd been in a long time. But you'd been up from what I gather for things like Sweeney Todd and nine.

Like, I'm sure you were... I wasn't up for Sweeney Todd. Okay. I was up for nine. Okay. Not to bring up... I mean, look, they worked out well. No, let's talk about morals that I didn't. No, hey, you got the right one. Clearly. Clearly. Is that a bucketless

kind of thing to do a musical on Broadway? Oh, I would love that so much. Wouldn't that be so wonderful if that happened? And I don't mean to be like tooting my own horse. and this could sound obnoxious, but people keep asking me when I'm going to do it. I'm just like, what? The interest is there. We want it.

I would love to do it. It just doesn't seem to be happening. I don't, I don't, I would. And if we talk about it enough, we'll secret it into the universe. Maybe that would be great. But I think I have to get more specific about what I want from it because truly, I think about it, people say, well, what do you want to do? And I can't, I can't, I can't, all the parts that I can think of, they're just, I'm not the right age for them yet. Right.

You know, so surely there has to be something. before them, but in musical theater, you know, so many of the parts, the great parts and the classic most, you know, beautiful, beautiful shows, so many of them are the dude parts. Yeah. So unless I want to do a gender swap production of Carousel, which would be amazing. It would be amazing. In our waiting moments, I do want to mention speaking of gender swapping and female-driven films, Oceans 8, which we're all very excited about.

Thank you. You know why it's not like for like another year and a half or something. Come on. Just push up this release date, guys. Come on. I feel the same. way I've made all these points but I apparently am not in the driver's going on well fair enough but already there's so much interest I know there was a lot of from the photo of you wielding a knife

on the subway became like instantly iconic tumbler material did that catch you off guard I feel like you I feel like you summed up the mood of the year in that photo so when people like started to text me they're like oh my god you with the knife and I was like oh right right we were We're joking around with that thing on the subway. So, and then I saw the photo, and everything about the picture is insane. Like, just the expression I'm making, the way the sunglasses are slightly crooked, my hair being a little bigger than normal, that I'm in, I mean, just all of it just kind of summed up the, this is nuts, and I'm holding a weapon.

How did that happen? Vibe of 2016. Does that sum up your character at all, or is just a weird off moment? I can't say, I can't say word about her. I thought I lulled you into a false sense of security for a moment. Sorry. That's okay. We'll talk about that next time.

No, not next time because hopefully you'll have more films between then and now because that's too long ago. No, that's it. You have a little break? No, no, no. This is, nothing's going to come out between now and then I get to, I'm going to go off and make some. So that way. Okay, good.

It's that way. Stuff to talk about. Excellent. It's always good to see you. I know we didn't talk specifics of like plot of this film and that was kind of purposeful. I think it was a good thing. I appreciate that. But suffice it to say, if you love film, you love films that take risks that have

comedy and drama and yeah a little sci-fi in there too um colossal is is your best bet right now it's a great piece of work and you deliver as always as there's jason sudeicus um it's good to see you anne annie miss hathaway let's let's let's do annie from now on please okay good to see you mr harrowitz yeah you can do that sure okay what do you uh thanks thank you thank you and so ends another edition of happy sad confused remember to review rate and to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't pressure to do this by Josh.

This episode of Happy, Sad, Confuse was produced by Michael Catano, James T. Green, Moufdomo and Kashamahilovich for the MTV Podcast Network with additional engineering by Little Everywhere. You can subscribe to this and all of our other shows on iTunes, Stitcher, Google Play, Spotify, or wherever else you find your favorite podcasts. One night, one goal, stop suicide. Register today for the overnight and join thousands in Washington, D.C. on June 3rd

as we walk 16 miles from dusk till dawn to stop suicide. Start your journey today at the, Overnight.org. Goodbye, summer movies, hello fall. I'm Anthony Devaney. And I'm his twin brother, James. We host Raiders of the Lost Podcast, the Ultimate Movie Podcast,

and we are ecstatic to break down late summer and early fall releases. We have Leonardo DiCaprio leading a revolution in one battle after another, Timothy Chalamee playing power ping pong in Marty Supreme. Let's not forget Emma Stone and Jorgos Lanthamos's

Bogonia. Dwayne Johnson, he's coming for that Oscar. In The Smashing Machine, Spike Lee and Denzel teaming up again, plus Daniel DeLuis's return from retirement. There will be plenty of blockbusters to chat about, too. Tron Aries looks exceptional, plus Mortal Kombat 2, and Edgar writes, the running man starring Glenn Powell. Search for Raiders of the Lost podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube.