Happy Sad Confused - Anne Hathaway, Vol. II

Episode Date: December 11, 2023

Anne Hathaway returns in an emotional interview with Josh, chatting about her new film EILEEN, that time she almost was in SPIDER-MAN, and the influence of Garry Marshall on her life and career. SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS! DraftKings -- Download the DraftKings Casino app NOW and sign up with promo code HappySad UPCOMING EVENTS December 14th -- Claire Foy & Andrew Scott -- tickets here! January 8th -- Dan Levy -- tickets here! January 11th -- Annette Bening -- tickets here! January 17th -- Clive Owen -- tickets here! Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes of, video versions of the podcast, and more! To watch episodes of Happy Sad Confused, subscribe to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Josh's youtube channel here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

D.C. high volume, Batman. The Dark Knight's definitive DC comic stories adapted directly for audio for the very first time. Fear, I have to make them afraid. He's got a motorcycle. Get after him or have you shot. You mean blow up the building? From this moment on,

none of you are safe. New episodes every Wednesday, wherever you get your podcasts. I've obviously lost Gary in recent years. Jonathan Demi. I mean, these are formative filmmakers. It's hard because they're my beginning. If I don't get to talk to them in that way, you know,

there's so many questions that I have for them now. And I love them so much. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now. I'm Josh Horowitz. Today on Happy Say I Confused, Anne Hathaway is back on the podcast after far, far too long. She's been a princess, a catwoman, and she should really earn another Oscar just for her sultry smoking in her latest Eileen.

It's the one and only Anne, Annie Hathaway. Welcome back to Happy Say I Confused. Good to see you. Thank you. Thank you for all those kind. Where is it so wonderful to see you? It's been a while. We are talking, as we tape this today, we are.

are, we're just coming back into humanity after cocooning with families, I assume, over the long holiday weekend. How was your Thanksgiving? What's your, I want to know Anne Hathaway's approach to Thanksgiving. Is it sides? What's your pie technique? What are you going for? Pie technique? I don't, I don't, I haven't gotten to pie yet. My pie technique is to order it. Oh, I meant eating. Don't get me wrong. I wasn't, I didn't mean. Oh, you talked about the eating technique. Yeah, yeah. Which pie do you go for? Uh, so what I do is I do, um, I do a bowl approach and, um, I do apple pie, pumpkin pie, uh, vanilla ice cream in between. And, uh, then I do whipped cream on top of that. And then this, and that particular day, I had put cinnamon buns out for people and there was one cinnamon bun left over. So I kind of like cut the cinnamon bun in half and then sprinkle cinnamon bun on top of it. How many people died at your Thanksgiving? How many people had hard at time?

well that was my bowl everyone else could do it their way right right but but i i think it's important to know when to say yes to things and thanksgiving is a day to say big yes big yes yeah i always say my i'm not defined as a big yes just as we're getting to know each other a little bit better that for me i will classify as a big yes yes i always say my i think my deathbed meal will be a synobon one of those disgusting giant synobons from the mall i mean they're they're interesting Yeah. Yeah. What's yours? Oh, well, I was going to say, I'm kind of, I think I'm a little boring. I just always go with like a perfectly cooked bowl of basil pomadora. I mean, yeah. Just, you know, like, like it's, oh, it's just delicious. It's the spot.

I recently got to have a meal made by an absolute, I don't use this word very often, but he's a genius. and he managed to make a bowl of mushrooms taste exactly like a bowl of pasta. A magician, a sorcerer. Yes, he is, actually. And so anyway, so as I was saying the Pomodora, I was like, I would also take one of those. I was like a bowl of those mushrooms, but if I were to say on your podcast, if I were to lead with a bowl of mushrooms, people would be like, oh, God. I can't get with you there because mushrooms are one of my Achilles seal. It's mushrooms and beets.

They're not on the table for Josh Hart. but I respect it. My wife loves a good mushroom. It's okay. Okay, I get it. Everybody's got their thing. Eggplant for me. Oh, okay. Okay. This is this is not a food podcast, despite what people may think. This is just the warm up. I'm going to turn it into one. I mean, I've managed to make most things into conversations. It's one of my favorite things to talk about, but we are here to talk about whatever you want to talk about. Well, we're here to talk about a bunch of things. It's funny, the last time you were on the podcast was for kind of a similarly hard to define. in a great way project.

You were on for Colossal way back when. And I remember I listened back to our conversation, and a lot of the conversation there, I feel like could apply to Eileen in a great way. These are, you know, they're not like the obvious like I-O-N blockbuster to put the movie in. And I kind of love that about Eileen.

What, I mean, I don't know, how did you, I saw in an interview somewhere you said, it's Carol meets reservoir dogs, which I think is like a delicious, beautiful shorthand. But to you, I don't know, if you had to classify it, what is this movie, like, genre-wise? Or does that even matter? Well, what we kept saying on set was it's a Christmas love story. For a certain kind of person, yeah.

I sort of feel like the way Die Hard is a Christmas movie, the way Gremlins is a Christmas movie, this is a bit of an alternative Christmas movie. Very alternative, actually. And, yeah, I have a lot of. faith and optimism in audiences. And I think that we're, you know, I think it's really important. I love, I mean, I love all types of movies and like, give me like a down the middle, feel good, uh, romp and made by, made by somebody great.

And I will be, you know, first, first one to go to see it. I will, I love a Nancy Myers movie, um, so much the same way I love Martin's Chris Sezi movie to say, you know, not the Martin's Grisessezi, you know, not in finding either of those filmmakers is down the middle, but it's a little clearer what it is that you're, that you're going to be getting. I happen

to be a big fan of mixed tone films. I like movies. I mean, and I think it's one of the reasons why I'm very excited to be on your podcast. I mean, happy, sad, confusing. All of it. It's right there. I think that I, I, I, I, my, the way I experience emotion is

multiple at the same time. It's very rarely just one thing. So I enjoy that as a film goer. And I like movies that require audio participation. What about like in terms of when you're in production on a film, do you ever have that realization where you're making a different movie than your co-stars and your director where like, oh, wait, I thought this was a comedy. I thought this was a black comedy.

I thought this was a thriller. And they don't. And does that matter in the end to the finished product? So the experience you just described as a nightmare. Yes, I have on occasion shown up on set and realized that the film that I thought that we were talking about, they were on a completely different page. And at that point, you just sort of have to, I mean, I think especially in cinema, you have to yield to the director.

It's the director's vision. You're there to support the director's vision. And hopefully you've kind of gotten on. forward in the pre-production stage or in the stage where you're deciding if you're going to do this dance together so I have to say the deeper into my career I get that happens less and less

because I kind of just I don't know I think I'm more adept at having conversations about what it is and expressing what I think it is and hearing what the other person wants to make and uncover what it is that we're going to move but there's always surprises and there is

and that's it's always a great surprise to learn that you're in something funny than you realized. Right. Like when I saw, I was hoping Eileen was going to have body humor in it because the book has, goes into such gory detail about what it is to have a body that you're uncomfortable in. And so I felt like that's a really difficult thing to translate onto the screen.

And I think that Otesa and Luke and Will did a fantastic job with that. And of course, Thomason, who was the person lying in a fool of her. I'm sick. Sorry, spoiler alert. We're not going to spoil the whole thing, but we are going to give them a little bit of a tease. So this takes place, I believe it's 64, New England. You mentioned the great Thomas and McKenzie, who's one of like our great kind of next generation of talents. He's just killed him last night in Soho, Judge a Rabbit, always amazing. She's caught to being a secret or not so secret fan girl of Annie Hathaway.

Excuse me. Did she, did she reveal on set or has this come out in the press store? or how big of how she was. I was down with Sundance when she said it for the first. I'm like, oh, my gosh. Like, I just, I was so, I was so flattered. You never take anything for, I mean, I'm still at a stage where I, like, I don't, I don't even I don't know who I am.

So, like, usually they do, but I never like to take it for granted. Right. And, and so to learn that actually, I was in a film that had meant so much to her, that was, it was incredibly, incredibly touching because she really did make it, because I, I had such a, I don't know. We've got such a loving, supportive, fun thing together, you know? It is so the friction or chemistry between you two is very interesting, and it's really palpable in this film, the contrast between your two characters. You know, she is Eileen. She's working in this kind of juvenile detention center,

prison in the early 60s. You are kind of a mysterious woman. She's got the cigarettes. She's got the blonde hair. There's a lot of questions. Yes. She's. A lot of smoke and a lot of mirrors. You play a great woman of mystery. This is in your wheelhouse. Is the blonde hair or the cigarettes more helpful in nailing down that character? I would think those kind of small but important elements are key.

They serve each other. I had a wonderful coffee with Will before we started. And we kind of like, we were both sitting there, we were both excited. And I said, I've had an idea about the hair. and he goes, really, I've had an idea about the hair. And I was like, okay, we can do this one of two ways. You can go first, I can go first. We can just say it at the same time.

And he said it was same time. And we went one, two, three, blonde. And... What a relief. I know. Bald. What? No. Not filming.

I thought we were making, but I can do that. Yeah. To our earlier point. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And he said, I'd love to channel Monica Viti. And I just went, oh, yes, please, thank you, and honored and all of those things. So I watched every Monica VTI I could find in the Criterion Collection.

And I was really, really proud because I won't say what the shot is, but there's a shot at the end of the movie where it was like she touched down and we channeled her and the light is so... I can't describe it, but Ari Wegener was our cinematographer, and her lighting in this is like she managed to... somehow in this really, really freezing landscape, make it look like certain scenes in the background for just, like, actually catching fire.

Like, we're engulfed in flames. But in this really super subtle way, it's amazing. How often when you're reading a script or doing a film, is it not maybe about one particular scene you want to play, but there is one that jumps out. Because, again, without ruining anything, there is a key twist, a moment towards the last act of the film that really illuminates a lot about your character.

That must be delicious to look forward to in a shoot. Yeah. Well, I'm going to use a nerd word. Dramaurgically, it's very important to understand the way you would understand the crescendos and day crescendos of musical performance or a musical score. It's very important to understand the rise and fall of your character as it was in the film. And as I have learned, it's very important to make sure the director understands that from your perspective too. And, you know, I'm really like, so I mean, you know, I think it's pretty obvious at this point. I just really love being an actor.

And it's great if you get a star in a movie, but it's also great if you're in an ensemble. And I'm just like each experience is its own little gift. And sometimes, no, I won't say that. I was going to make a bad joke and say sometimes you want to get the gift back. But, no, but you're always, always, always lucky to be there. Because even the ones that don't turn out the way you thought it was going to, you learn something from it and you develop as an actor, as an artist, and as a human. And so they all wind up being incredibly valuable.

So actually, thank you. So when you are not number one in the Paul, shape, and you're not the title character, it usually means that you have a more limited amount of screen time to work with. And so it's actually very important that you understand your terrain. Right. Because you have to be able to maximize your ability to communicate what you want to, to the audience. So making, in this case, hold choices like having blonde hair, the way she walked, the way she sounded, you know, the way she smoked a cigarette. My hope was you thought you had her pegged from the first time you looked at her.

You got so much information just from that person, just from the way she smoked a cigarette. And knowing that that's where you start out, and then I was going to have the opportunity to unravel that, it became really, really exciting to know that I could go from the actual height of glamour, most idealized version of a person to like the harshest, most unforgiving, most torn apart version of that same person, which was really exciting to me. How much can you tell about a character by the way they dance, you think? Because the contrast between, right? So much. So, I mean, I think that, you know, one of the things that I love about, because I really do love movies and I love cinema. And one of my favorite things about it is it's a place where you can say so much without words.

And then when you have the right words, it just makes the whole thing go to another level. but Eileen and Rebecca's connection We have a dance scene And you get such a sense of Eileen's nervousness or insecurity Her willingness, her curiosity, her hope And Thompson is She's such a gifted performer

But one of her like biggest powers Superpowers really Is a nonverbal communication You just put a camera on her face And it's like symphonies Right Books of poetry are just coming. I mean, it's just amazing. I really, really, really marvel at it. And, you know,

in that case, my character kind of steps up and realizes that this is a girl who maybe has never been asked to dance. And there's something so touching about that. And so I gave her her first dance, you know, and there's a tenderness to it. And yeah, so I think a lot can be communicated through dance. Yeah. And we now know in real life, no, surprise and Hathaway likes to dance. This must have surprised nobody that this became, or maybe everybody. This is a weird viral thing to happen where you're dancing at a fashion show, kind of feeling yourself, enjoying the moment.

God bless, enjoy it. And then it becomes like a viral thing. At this point in your interesting journey through celebrity, is it sort of like, okay, of course, this is now a thing? You know what? There's a lot of different ways to be everywhere. That's a great way to be everywhere. That's true.

If you're going to get that ad log. And I prefer to, I mean, and I hope, yeah, I just, you know, I mean, it was just such a fun night. It was, and I was also really happy because Pierre Paolo, who's the head designer of Valentino, who took over for my beloved friend and family member, Valentino. And, you know, Pierrapello was his accessories director for many, many years, shared the title. And he had told me, he was so, he's been so generous with me. And he invited Adam, my husband and I to the show, and he invited up the day early. So we come through the atelier and we met everybody and we got to see the process of putting it together. And, you know, I love craft work and I love the process.

I love it in acting and filmmaking. I love, and in fashion as well. It's so, you know, I get it. For some people, it's a shirt, what's the big deal? But when you actually meet the people who have this technique of making it and that you find out that they actually hand-cut feathers so that way they would be lighter than feathers. I mean, it's so poetic and beautiful.

So anyway, he had showed me all of that. He just said, I just want to make a nightclub. I just want to make a nightclub vibe where everybody has a great time. And it's such an honor to be asked to one of those shows. It's such an unusual life experience to get to do it. And so I guess in that sense, I was happy that when you go viral for dancing, you kind of spread the dance floor out and make the night bigger than just the physical space. Maybe, maybe, maybe we made everybody feel like they were at the club.

There you go. You welcomed us all in. Hey, Michael. Hey, Tom. Big news to share it, right? Yes, huge, monumental, earth shaking. Heartbeat, sound effect, big. Mait is back.

That's right. After a brief snack nap. We're coming back. We're picking snacks. We're eating snacks. We're raiding snacks. Like the snackologist we were born to be. Mates is back.

Mike and Tom, eat snacks. Wherever you get your podcast. Unless you get them from a snack machine, in which case. Call us. Call us. I'm Amy Nicholson, the film critic for the LA Times. And I'm Paul Shear, an actor, writer, and director. You might know me from The League, Veep,

or my non-eligible for Academy Award role in Twisters. We come together to host Unspool, a podcast where we talk about good movies, critical hits. Fan favorites, must-season, and case you missed them. We're talking Parasite the Home Alone. From Greece to the Dark Night. So if you love movies like we do, come along on our cinematic adventure. Listen to Unspooled wherever you get your podcasts.

And don't forget to hit the follow button. I'm curious, like, you know, this film probably doesn't get made without you attached to it. And that could probably be said for a number of the recent films that you've done. And that's a great responsibility. That's a privilege. Does it feel like the business is 180 from where you start? today way back when. I mean, does it feel similar?

I mean, does it feel like, I don't know. Do you feel a responsibility in terms of like getting projects made? Because you're in that rare group that can get films greenlit at certain budgets. The thing I'm always aware of is that the, you have to fit in, you're someone who can get a film made for now. And you kind of have to be aware that, what I always try to do is I try to just, take the film based on its own merit and figure out what excites me, uh, in which I'm not going to betray myself or anything, you know, that I believe in. And that can mean making the third princess diaries or it can mean making Eileen, obviously two very different

experiences. But, um, I'm really, I, I have come to really appreciate the shape of my career. Um, I began with like a big, everybody. G-rated commercial film that had initial success, but then went on to have this other phenomenal life. And kind of, you know, DeVore's Prada was kind of the same thing where it was, you know, a nice hit when it came out, but what the cultural phenomenon that it turned into has been developing for the past two decades.

And those types of films are so important and so dear to me. and I kind of think of them as like my more classic offerings and when I think of something like I lean when I think of something like she came to me when I think of something like colossal I think about this is a little bit more of my experimental films and I'm someone who like I said I am the first one to a Nancy Myers movie

but I you know but my favorite film the last 10 years was T10 so like right I and I think me that's what it is I I'm not an I'm not an either or I'm a yes and person. Yeah. So like I just think it's not about the genre of the film. It's not about the concept of the audience. It's actually about just making something of quality.

And if you make something of quality, then that's, that's really the beginning in the end. And then it's truthful unto itself. I'm curious. I mean, I was looking at some of the early work and the directors you worked with. And not to bring the mood down, but like, you know, I felt a tremendous loss last I knew Douglas McGrath a bit, and we lost him. And he was someone you worked with pretty early on. We've obviously lost Gary in recent years, Jonathan Demi.

I mean, these are formative filmmakers. Bless people know Douglas, but he was such a sweet man. I guess just talked to me a little bit about the relationship you had to those gentlemen and how they informed your choices, the way you approached your craft, anything. Yeah. where I'm still processing it. I miss them very much. And it's hard.

It's hard because they're my beginning. If I don't get to talk to them in that way, you know, there's so many questions that I have for them now. And I love them so much. And I'm really just so grateful to them for seeing something in me. I mean, I was a literal kid when giving a personal, like a physical, like literal legal child. And he created and allowed me to participate in such a meaningful way in the creation of a character that I'm so closely identified with. And he just set my life up in so many ways, the gift of the gift.

of that and then because I was never worried about being put into a box because I knew that I just had to be aware if I was aware that there was a box that I could probably make choices that would keep me from getting stuck in it but you need someone outside the box to see you and that was Jonathan Denny and I don't know

I literally don't know how he saw through but that was the thing he was not an idle or a person he was a yes person and so he thought it was great but I had been this princess and he didn't see any reason why a princess couldn't also be a recovering addict and

and he just had so much baby and he was so generous to me and Doug McGrath he you know getting to do Nicholas Nickleby it was my first time going to England I was just talking about you know that time earlier earlier today I am and I was getting ready.

It was so significant about to see the world. I got to do a British accent for the first time. And he and I remain really, really good friends for a long time after that. So I was so happy to see him. It was a total gentleman. But yes, and another wonderful filmmaker that I got to work with him not longer with us. So I think of with such fondness and dearness is Gary Winick. Of course.

We lost him way too, way too soon. Way too soon. He had so many more. I mean, they all had so many more stories. But, yeah, I'm, you know, it's one of the reasons why I think it's so important, so important to really look at what we want to evolve about this industry. And you asked me if it changed and you gave the example of a 180. And I don't know, I don't understand, I don't totally understand the 180 of it,

but it has changed a lot. But when I look back at somebody like a Gary Marshall and someone like a Jonathan Demi, they were telling stories about women. They were telling stories that really, really, really, and by the way, Doug McGrath, too, and Gary Winick. They were all men who absolutely adored women and wanted to help tell their stories. And in the process of telling the stories, they listened to women and they amplified women's voices. And the thing, you know, there are changes in business. Some of them are positive. Some of them are sad.

And but one of the ones that's positive is that trend seems to be each one of those men was, you know, whenever they had been a filmmaker would have been a really rare find. But the instinct that they had is becoming less and less rare and more and more everywhere. I apologize for for changing the mood so drastically. But, I mean, it is very sweet to pay tribute to these folks that obviously meant so much to you personally and professionally. You know, I just, it's the price of having an open heart sometimes. You just burst into tears. But also, I, you know, I was very young when I met them and they are foundational to me.

Yeah. It's funny when I, you talk a little bit about, you know, knowing, you know, loving that Princess Dyer's experience and not wanting that to only define you. You wanted that to be an element of your career. And as we've seen in the year since, it is just one side of you. And I look at the chronology. And it's always easy for folks like me to be like, okay, so this obviously happened here because she was trying to do this, that, or the other. Okay. Yeah. Give me a few years take. No, I'm not, I guess I'm preempting it by saying I know it's not that simple, but it is striking to see, like, just a few years after that, there is that kind of

one-to-punch of havoc and broke back. And I'm curious, like, how tough was it to get into those films at the time? Was Ang Lee, like, I don't want Princess Diaries girl in my in my prestige movie? And how, and I guess, how did Team Hathaway at the time feel about the kind of choices you wanted to make in that early career, when you could have gone down the Ella enchanted Princess Diaries path for another five, ten years if you so desired, presumably. Well, I think it's important to mention that Team Hathaway then is still Team Hathaway. That speaks volumes. Look, I, there was, when I was starting out my, with my career, I met with a lot of different

people, and I was very upfront with them about the, they were very clear about a path that they saw for me and it was, you know, the sweetheart path. And that is a fantastic path. And it's beautiful. And those roles and that persona and all of that is really, I marvel at people who are that. But I know myself and I know that, you know, such as it is, I do have an edge. I knew I wouldn't be happy unless I could explore complicated, dark things. And I was just really upfront about that.

I said, listen, I get it. You guys are discussing me, like, I have this huge brand opportunity. And maybe that'll happen. But it won't be worth anything unless I'm an artist. And I didn't go to drama school. So I'm going to have to learn on set. I'm going to have to learn on, I'm going to have to learn. Pay my dues.

And, yeah. And pay my dues. And I kind of said to them, and I think the way I do that is by working with the greatest directors I can. that will have me. And I don't care how small the part is. I just want to go be around them and absorb. And so that meant different things at different times.

But I remember, I mean, broke back mountain. It's just, oh, that script was so, I don't know. I'm actually not even going to attempt to put it into words. It was just one of the greatest, if not the greatest things I'd ever read, Thanos, and Larry McMartree. And my, and I read it and they said, said, you know, they said, which part did you respond to? I said, Lurine. They said, really, it's the smaller part. I said, no, I'm Lurine.

By the way, I have kind of dressed like her today. Still in character, all these years later. And I owe, I really think I owe that job, yeah, to certain other things. But I really owe it to Avey Kaufman, the casting director, because the way she positioned it to Angley, she left the Princess Diaries out of it. And she said she's a theater actress from New York. There you go. And which was true.

And she said, but she's out here doing a movie. She's going to, she has to come on her lunch break. I did my audition on my lunch break in Pistairies 2. And we were shooting the coronation scene. So I had like the full thing. So I took the tiara off, took the ball gown off, put my flannel shirt on. And I went and I auditioned with Ang and we just had this. stunning connection.

Yeah. Really, really stunning connection. And I've come, like at the time, it felt really special, but, you know, I've been alive for many years since that audition. And I've come to realize how magical a connection just right off the bat it was. And I auditioned for him. And I felt, I felt that thing that you always hope for as an actor when you just feel like you're flying. And you don't even feel the words and you're just kind of, you go to another place. And I kind of blacked out in the audition and, um, well, also being like totally present.

And, uh, I remember as I was leaving, Ang said, can you ride a horse? And I said, absolutely, because it wasn't true, but I knew that I could make it through. Give me two weeks. I got this. Yeah. And I, and I, uh, and I, uh, and I left the room and I thought to myself, I think I just shut the door behind me. Like I think I, like, I, like, that, That's that feeling you get sometimes when you audition and you're like, I believe I just shut the door behind me and I don't think anybody else is going in. Wow.

And that's how I felt about that one. And I got it. And it was funny because there was another film that wound up being very significant and I needed to show proof of my work to be considered for the part because I'm very known as being a princess and broke back hadn't come out yet. And I was so generous and he screamed the phone call scene. that I had with Keith Ledger and this person that said, oh, she's got it, okay, we're good. And that was a film that went on

to be very significant in my life and career. Goodbye, summer movies, hello, fall. I'm Anthony Devaney. And I'm his twin brother, James. We host Raiders of the Lost Podcast, the Ultimate Movie Podcast, and we are ecstatic to break down

late summer and early fall releases. We have Leonardo DiCaprio leading a revolution in one battle after another, Timothy Salome playing power ping pong in Mari Supreme. Let's not forget Emma Stone and Jorgos Lanthamos' Borgonia. Dwayne Johnson, he's coming for that Oscar. In The Smashing Machine, Spike Lee and Denzel teaming up again, plus Daniel DeLuis's return from retirement. There will be plenty of blockbusters to chat about two.

Tron Aries looks exceptional, plus Mortal Kombat 2, and Edgar writes, The Running Man, starring Glenn Powell. Search for Raiders of the Lost Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube. How does love work exactly? What makes something funny? How does noise affect your health? These are just a sample of the fascinating topics we discuss on my podcast, Something You Should Know. We bring you leading experts on topics important to you, things you can use in your life and that will fascinate you.

We deliver three episodes a week and have over a thousand. and episodes available to listen. So get listening to something you should know, wherever you get your podcasts. It's funny. I also think of that, you know, in an actor's life, sometimes it's the movies that don't get made that set you on a different path.

Because I could imagine an alternate reality where, I don't think we've ever discussed this, there was that famous Spider-Man movie that sounded like very close to happening. You were in it, I think, this is Sam Ramey, He was doing a fourth one. It was you, John Malkovich. I don't know if Angelina Jolie was officially on or not.

And it was sounded pretty far down that path. And I wonder if that movie gets made if Dark Night Rises and Catwoman happened for you. That's how I hold it. The way I hold it is if that movie had gotten made, I don't know if I would have been considered. Because I don't know if he would have said, no, no, she's occupied in another universe. And so that's why as an actor, you don't know this. on day one but you you learn to just go that you know what the right role finds the right person and sometimes it's you and sometimes it's not and so what it doesn't happen just trust deeper

and keep going just keep going like there was some i was talking about i can't say which one but there was a musical that i was supposed to do and um that got cast went through the whole edition process and it got preempted for princess diaries too like i couldn't make it and i was I mean, I was so young and so immature and so devastated. But then looking back, if I gotten it, I don't know that

Les Miss would have been Le Miss because there was a surprise factor to all of us singing in that movie. And the element of surprise would have been given away. And so you just kind of go, you just got to it sounds maybe a little corny but you really do have

to keep it grateful. Like Like, funny enough, a career has something to do with you, but it also doesn't have a lot to do with you. Right. You know, so you just kind of got to lean in, lean into it, lean into what's happening and go with it and learn. And sometimes, like, you receive praise and sometimes you get knocked down and, you know, it all kind of, but it's your life. And it's what you signed up for because you felt this thing inside of yourself that said, this is what you're supposed to do. It's not a usual thing to do. No.

but when you're but when you feel it when it's what you want you literally can't imagine anyone ever doing it you don't you can't even imagine a life that doesn't involve it can i can i just ask a nerdy follow-up on the spider-man front like did you read a script like how did you get into costume like how close did that come uh did not get into costume and did not read a script past the audition sites got it but again at the time probably exciting but i got the part and And yeah, and it just, I think that that's probably more the producer's story to tell the mind. Right. You know what I mean?

Should they ever decide to tell it? Because the Spider-Man universe has gone on to be so enormous and so thrilling. Yeah. Like, like, and like, it's just reinventing itself and all of those things. So I wouldn't want to make more of it than it's necessary. Do you have a similar philosophy? I would think you do. Like, I mean, Barbie came and went this year and was a phenomenon.

on. And there was a moment where you were attached to a different iteration, as I understand it, to Barbie. Yeah. When you say the philosophy, you mean of letting go of whatever, not even like anger or resentment, because that would be silly, silly, but just sort of like, oh, that would have been cool if that had worked out and I see how it resonated with people. But again, that was even a different project, I guess, when you were doing it. I think the thing you have to imagine is, and the thing that's so exciting about what Margo and Greta and Ryan and that entire America and that entire phenomenon team, they hit a bullseye. And the bullseye caused the entire world to like reach this level of ecstasy. Now imagine that version, that much energy, that much

anticipation, that much emotion, but it's not the right version. So I actually think of it as a lucky thing. And as I mentioned, I think that, like, I think that Margo is just sublime, period, full stop. And I think that what she is doing as a creative person and as a producer is so exciting and inspiring. And what, and the mythic giants that they toppled with that film that have kept certain narratives in place. that have not allowed opportunities to develop for so many people, they just, they ran straight through them, dancing, sparkling. And I'm not just saying this, just as a cinema goer,

just as a woman in Hollywood since I was a kid, I'm thrilled, I'm thrilled by the development. And if I believed that the version that I was attached to could have done, that, yeah, I might feel differently about it, but I genuinely think theirs was the best possible version. And so it's actually very easy to just be thrilled and happy and like just watching. Because I'm also a person who I love watching women kill it. I just do.

I just love it. And also to do so well, so undeniably that they actually had to like write new records. Right. That's the word undeniable. No one could be like, I don't get it. No, like this was. This was so undeniable. So completely undeniable.

And I think it's probably going to make things better. I want to mention a few upcoming things for you because you've got a busy slate that I'm very excited about. You mentioned wanting to see other great actors, actresses succeed. I'm very excited to see what sounds like a two-hander. You and Jessica Chastain front and center? That gets my ticket immediately. We love each other so much. What can you say about it's called Mother's Instinct, right?

Yes. I will say that about that one. I don't want to see it too much, but I will say that that to me is a film about what can happen when you don't have an identity outside of the one society says you should have. Okay. Dot, dot, dot. Here we come in soon.

You probably can't say much more about this, but I am excited that you're working not only with David Lowry, but with David Lowry on a musical, like full-on musical? it's been a minute though it's been a long minute since you have done a full on musical so i would think after lay miss it's like i'm not going to follow that up with a c grade musical you're going to wait for the right one the grade musical there's no there's no such thing as a c grade musicals are perfect no but listen i love the idea of i love the idea of making literally anything but the right you know and so in this in this case um i think the only thing you need to know

is that it's a david lowry film and um to the extent that it interests you i'm in it and so thrilling and everybody should be thrilled at us macaille cole is fireworks at it and i'm surprised awesome okay i also think that I also think that it's funny. It's, we're in this really funny time about film where an information and that thing, like, for example, with Eileen, I believe going into Eileen totally bold is the way to see it. I think not know. And when I talk about my trust in audiences and my trust in audience participation,

that comes from my, that comes from the influence that Jonathan Demi has had on me as an audience member, which is I do not think it's my job. argue with a filmmaker. I don't think that it's as an audience member, I don't think that it's my job to question it in a way like, put it up in a dim right or put in a bit of a, my only job as an audience is to show up, participate

and whenever I ask why, I ask why in a way that benefits the director's vision, not criticizes it, you know what I mean? And so David is an actor and I think it's going to be a full-on experience.

And there is music. and the other project that is coming pretty soon. I think. You think? Unless they change it in the edit a lot. Yeah, by the way. Yes, it's a David Lowry film. It's whatever he wants it to me.

Yeah. No, I love, I mean, what he does with genre and your expectations always is very interesting. So I'm in again. The idea of you, I think, has a very, has a lot of fans very excited. This is based on a book. I myself have not read it. You seem obviously very excited about this. So have you, have you, a red, white, and royal blue has put Nicholas on the map.

Yes. So chemistry there, that relationship being depicted on screen, what can fans expect? Well, it's funny when you asked me about how important dances, it actually was so integral to how Nick got cast in the idea of you because, you know, we met with so many wonderful actors. And the question was like, okay, how do you? how do you do a chemistry read? And the, you know, the idea of making out with all of the characters, I was sorry, all the actors that were coming and didn't really appeal to me. And so I was like, you know, how do you decide whether or not your chemistry with someone,

like you dance with them? So part of the audition was, yes, you have to prepare the scenes, but we came up with the idea of doing, an improv where it's like you're going to bring in a song of your own choosing that Hayes would love and you're going to convince Solan my character to dance and when you just signal to Michael Show Waltz for a director he's going to press play and I don't know what's about to happen and we'll see what happens when we dance and we just explored it together and it was really interesting to discover that because there were certain people that they aced the readings but we had

no chemistry when we were dancing and i mentioned before like the yes and of it all nick and i are very yes and together just um it was so much fun we it's so so much fun working on this and um he's he's he's easy to he's somebody he's very easy to kind of like spark with right like just who he is as a person so which is exactly what you want from hayland so what was the song he chose I will leave it up to him to tell you, not because I don't remember, which I 100% don't, but because he's starting to tell. Fair enough, fair enough. Let's end with the happy, say I confused, profoundly random questionnaire. What do you collect?

Do you collect anything? Abilone. Wait, Abilene? What? What's the connection? The connection problems. What is Abilum? It's collected, and I actually don't know if I'm pronouncing it correctly.

It's either abalone or abalone, but it's a type of shell. And a lot of people make really beautiful objects or obje from it. But my grandmother had, until she quit, she was a smoker. And she used to use them as as ashtrays. And I kind of ignored the ash, and I just thought they were so beautiful. They're very iridescent from the bottom, a bit like my males, right? now. And I just think that it's like one of the more beautiful things on God's green earth. And so, yeah, I collect. That is our first abalone answer. What's the most, like the most

common answer? It really runs the gamut to be like if they're movie posters could be guitars. Someone answered. Tom Blythe, the new lead actually in the Hunger Games movie, We actually just said rocks, stones. So maybe you guys could bond on that. You know, I'll be in a corner. Don't leave Tom and Annie alone with their rocks. Oh, yes, Tom Shale. I mean, it's just.

Check this one out. What's the wallpaper on your phone? Oh, I'm so embarrassed because I don't know the name of the artist, but it's called a portrait of an old, do I have my phone? No, I don't know, but it's called portrait of an old woman, and it's a picture of, it's a vintage portrait of a woman, and they kind of did a collage of all of these flowers around it. And Amy Williams, who's the production designer on the idea of you, and I became, she's

actually the production designer on, we crashed, and I had recommended her to Michael Scholl Walter, and they met and they fell in love, and she did the most phenomenal job on the idea of you. And we spent a lot of time, my character is an art dealer, and we spent a lot of time looking at art together. And I put it on my phone after we work together because the film deals a lot with the concept of age. And so the idea that I was staring at this picture, this photograph of a woman who at some point in time would be old, but at the time of the picture was young, but then

the photograph aged and was made even more beautiful by the hand of an artist. And the fact that it was called portrait of an old woman, I thought was very cool. Nice. Okay, let's end with this. Worst note, a director has ever given. in you. You don't have to name names, but what note sticks in your brain forever, like? First take. What are you doing? First take, first day. And that sets the tone right there. Yeah. Literally did not recover for the entire. It's such a, it's such a nervous performance. It's so

stiff. And it's not one that I, it's one that I, it's as soon as you're done, you're just like, now let me do the whole thing over now please please but but yeah it was not it was not uh not the feeling not the positive atmosphere you need or want as an actor i was pretty i was pretty tearful for the rest of that job now now i think i'd handle it now i'd handle it but at the time i when you're just starting out, you have so many insecurities. That's not on you. You shouldn't have to handle a note like that. No, no actor should have to hear that.

I mean, it's supposed to be a... No, it's not, look, it's not a gracious note. No. But I also, I would know how to handle it while saving my performance. Right. You know what I mean? Like, I would know how not to fall apart because of that. Because the thing that you have to know as an actor is what literally whatever's going on.

it can't touch the screen like you have to you owe it to your character to fight through everything because your character is going to exist forever and and so and I've just learned that lesson many many times that you just can't give into whatever momentary distraction is happening you have to kind of tap into and search for that place where you kind of like I mentioned before where you kind of black out yeah there's no better feeling that then you guys at the end of performance, you're like, I actually have no idea what just happened. You went to some other space. That's magic.

When that happens, you're just like, whatever it is. I hope I like it, but I know that the offering feels very, very pure. Well, we ran the gamut today. We laughed. We cried. We did. Did you feel confused at any point? Do you have any point where I was talking and you were like, what?

The abalone. Just the abalone. Through me. Other than that, we were on the same page. He curiously Googles. What's your wallpaper on your phone, by the way? Oh, it's my dog's, my dog right behind me. Lucy.

Good old Lucy. Pink shirt. Yeah, it says the goodest, obviously. Oh, I was wondering if maybe you had taken her to the opening weekend of Barbie. She did dress up as weird Barbie for Halloween. Perfect. Yeah. Perfect.

We're selling tickets to Eileen and Barbie now on a video on demand. apparently today. Congratulations, Annie. It's been far too long. Everybody should check out, Eileen. This woman can do it all, whether it is a rom-com, a Princess Diaries, a superhero movie, or the funky cool shit like Eileen and Colossal. She can do it. We're trying. We're trying. You're succeeding. Thank you, as always for the time. Thank you, Josh. See you soon. All right. Have a good one. be sad, confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh. American history is full of infamous tales that continue to captivate audiences, decades, or even hundreds of years after they happened. On the infamous America podcast, you'll hear the true stories of the Salem Witch Trials and the escape attempts from Alcatraz, of bank robbers like John Dillinger and Pretty Boy Floyd, of killers like Lizzie Borden and Charles Starkweather, of mysteries like the Black Dahlia and D.B. Cooper, and of events that inspired movies like Goodfellas, killers of a flower moon, Zodiac, Eight Men Out, and many more. I'm Chris Wimmer. Join me as we crisscrossed the country

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