Happy Sad Confused - Annette Bening

Episode Date: January 18, 2024

Annette Bening was a relatively late bloomer to film having spent her 20s in the theater but once she stepped on a set she was off to the races. From THE GRIFTERS and BUGSY to AMERICAN BEAUTY and THE AMERICAN PRESIDENT, she's one of our most celebrated actresses. In this career conversation with Josh taped at the 92nd Street Y, she opens up about her creative process, the journey from stage to screen, and her latest performance in NYAD. SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS! HelloFresh -- Go to HelloFresh.com/HSCFree and use code hscfree for FREE breakfast for life! UPCOMING EVENTS January 24th -- Masters of the Air (Austin Butler, Barry Keoghan) -- tickets here! February 6th -- Emily Blunt -- tickets here! Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes of, video versions of the podcast, and more! To watch episodes of Happy Sad Confused, subscribe to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Josh's youtube channel here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

D.C. high volume, Batman. The Dark Nights definitive DC comic stories adapted directly for audio for the very first time. Fear, I have to make them afraid. He's got a motorcycle. Get after him or have you shot. What do you mean blow up the building? From this moment on,

none of you are safe. New episodes every Wednesday, wherever you get your podcasts. I do love working on film. I love the camera. I love the luxury of the camera and the intimacy of that experience, the intimacy of the experience

with the other people in the room that you're working with. So I really love that process. I have fallen in love with it after feeling very awkward on sets for quite a while. I didn't feel, I felt like I was stage actress kind of pretending that I was on a set

and kind of knew what I was doing and I was, it felt awkward. It doesn't feel awkward anymore. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now. Today on Happy, Sad, Confused, guys. We have a legend in the house. I'm Josh Horowitz, but my guest today,

it's the one and only Annette Benning, everybody. You ready for this? This is definitely one of those, how did I get so lucky nights? For over three decades, Annette Benning has been an intrinsic. part of my love of the movies. I'm going to rattle a few off.

I'm not going to rattle too many off because I want to spend most of the time actually talking to Annette Benning. American Beauty, Bugsy, the American President. The kids are all right. Of course, the new film NIAD opposite the equally unbelievable Jody Foster. They have both just got Screen Actors Guild nominations.

Yes. A lot of cool numbers to associate with Annette Benning four Oscar nominations. Tony nominations, too many honors to list here tonight, but tonight the honor is mine. Please give a warm New York City welcome to Annette Benning, everybody. Thank you. Thank you.

Wow, thanks. Thank you so much. That's a good start. It's very good. I'm feeling good about myself at this moment. You should. You should. Congratulations one more time on not only the film, which we're going to talk about tonight.

But yes, I think this is now your seventh Screen Actors Guild nomination. I think you've won two of these. Too many to count at this point, but congratulations. Thank you. Thank you so much. So before we get into Nyad actually, like speaking of recognition, it strikes me Was your first awards nomination for your work in the theater here in New York City? Take me back, 1987, Broadway debut, you were nominated for a Tony, correct?

Yes. That was amazing. What do you remember, what do you associate with those early days in New York? Oh, well, I was, I just sort of plunged in. I had been working in the regional theater. And I loved it and I started in the nonprofit regional theater and was lucky enough to be in a rep company, which was kind of my dream, repertory company. Because as an actor, when you're in a rep company, you divide up the work. And so sometimes you're carrying the play and sometimes somebody else is carrying the play and you're supporting them.

And also you're doing eight shows a week, but you're not doing the same show. Yeah, keeping it fresh. Which is just, you know, incredible. And I was so spoiled to have had that experience, especially with a company, you know, of actors. So I'd had a taste of that, and that was a joy. And I went to Denver, and I did a year there as well. So after that, I felt, you know, I was 28 and 28, yeah, and I decided I needed to give New York a shot. And so it was kind of interesting because I, it wasn't a kid, you know.

I mean, it wasn't like I was just starting, although I was not, you know, I knew nothing about working in front of the camera, really. Not that it's that much different, but I really had no experience, let's put it that way. Anyway, so then I had taught acting one summer after I was through with my training. I had been doing like kind of Shakespeare Festival kind of things, and then I had one summer of teaching, which I loved so much. and I had one student who had moved to New York and she had an apartment on the Upper West Side

and she had let me live with her in her closet to tell you the truth. And it was, you know, just like I kind of just threw myself into New York and hadn't really planned, which is okay. So she let me live with her, Sally. I'm very grateful to Sally. And then I got a play at the second stage, which was a new play by Tina Howe, who just passed away this year.

a wonderful playwright, and it was called Coastal Disturbances. So we started at the second stage, thank you, and we moved to Broadway. So we ended up doing it for about a year, which was, of course, a great challenge, you know, and a great experience to have as an actor. We'll circle back around to then, because that pretty quickly segues into the beginning of the film career. So we'll do a little bit of a This Is Your Life, Annette Benning, if you'll forgive me tonight. But before we do that... Is someone going to come out of the audience?

Isn't that what happened in that show? Right, exactly. No, we won't subject you to that. Or will we? Congratulations. Nyad is just a wonderful piece of work. It is such a treat to see you, to see Jody Foster, the great Jody Foster in this amazing story

of friendship and perseverance and success and failure. I'm curious, like, are you the type of actor that, instinctually knows. You see a script, like do you labor over it, the yes or the no, or do you kind of know immediately you're in? Well, in this case, I knew it was Jimmy Chin and Chai Vesar Heli, who are a married filmmaker couple, and they had only done, they're great documentarians. They'd made a number of amazing documentaries, including Free Solo, and they had won the Academy Award for that, and we all remember that movie. so I knew that it was them

I didn't know them but I knew it was them and then it was just that and the script and I read it and just immediately was blown away and thought well I have to do this there's no question and I didn't really think it through I honestly didn't which is kind of insane but I didn't think about really

oh there's all the swimming in the bathing suit there's a lot of water in the script I didn't think about it There's a lot of swimming here. Yeah, I don't know. I just was, because I was just reading it, you know, you only get one free read, as they say. You only have one read where you don't know how it's going to go.

So you only get that one experience that you will then be trying to replicate for audiences. Right. So I was just so taken with her and the story, and I was moved. That's the bottom line. I was just touched and inspired by her. So I did just say yes.

I probably said, well, I need to talk to them, but inside I was like, I'm doing this. Well, she's just, I mean, even beyond the physicality, which I do want to talk about, just Diana as a figure is such a compelling entity, a human being on this planet. She is stubborn and sometimes cantankerous, but also so accomplished and driven.

And this must be like mana for an actor. I mean, this is like all the complexities of life in a human being. Yes. And in fact, one of the scenes that was actually never made it into the movie was at the very beginning. And she was, it was a scene where she was being quite Diana-esque and pushing and challenging. And, you know, that's not quite the right description. But anyway, she was, she was so unusual right from the beginning. And I just thought, I loved that. I loved that in the writing. That this, and it's because, of course, it's based on this real woman. She wrote a great book as well, which is based on. She wrote a book called Find Away, which is about this process that she went through when she turned 60 and decided to do the swim that she had failed to do when she was in her 20s.

And it took her many, many years to accomplish it, many failures, which is what the movie's about. So, yes, I just immediately thought, well, I have to, they're just like, what? This is crazy. I couldn't and I knew something about her and I used to listen to her on NPR because she had a show on NPR she would weigh in on kind of sports ethical kind of issues and I remember hearing her

anyway so yeah I just said yes it's also an interesting situation because look actors playing real life figures happens all the time but rarely where like Diana and Bonnie were accessible like they were they could be there for both you and Jody as I understand it and that's a gift also possibly a little intimidating to have the real thing

standing slightly off your eye line, I would think. I don't know if they were on set. No, they're so hilarious. They are such a duo, so now they're out on the circuit together. And they have all these great lines that they do together about what, they actually came to the set,

but it wasn't until the very end. And Bonnie says they wouldn't let Diana on the set because they would be too afraid that she would yell cut. But she would never do. But that's their joke, you know. Anyway, so, yeah, we spent a lot of time with them. And no, Diana was not intimidating to me because she is so,

she is so, what's the word, open? I mean, she's a very curious, intense person, but behind the eyes, there's so much openness and vulnerability for one of a better word and just a kind of searching quality about her. and she felt very you know she wanted us to do this film believe me and she gave it over to us but it was scary for her

how could it not be? It's her story but then I think that she got to know me and I just said look I'm your advocate I am here for you I mean that's what we do as actors we advocate for the characters whether they're heroes or killers or somewhere in between

we are behind them and we're fighting for them and their needs. So she began to see that she could trust me and that I only wanted to, you know, I only wanted to try to tease out what I could. I mean, yes, we had to change it. We can't make it exactly like real life because real life doesn't follow a narrative structure and we needed a narrative structure.

But she very quickly, I think, began to trust me and we talked very intimately and openly about her life. As I keep saying, it's thrilling to see just two of the top actors in the game just having so much material to chew on together. It's funny because obviously I've taken the opportunity to look back in your career and I've seen so much of your work. And I think back to like the early films and there was a lot of narrative and I remember of like all these amazing actors you were playing opposite against, whether it was your husband, obviously Warren, Michael Douglas, Denzel, De Niro, Harrison Ford. And then I think of actually recent years,

I don't know what the answer is behind us, I don't know a few of a theory, but like, there's some nice examples of this, of 20th century women. We can even count Captain Marvel of you and like strong female ensembles holding the screen. What do we two account for that? Are we actually, God willing, making some progress in it? Am I too much of an optimist? No, I think we are. I think that there are more nuanced characters for women to play now, and there are fewer stereotypes. They're not over, but no, I think that that's in general happening

in terms of inclusivity, not just with women, but with everybody. So I think it's a very important time for us in the industry and that things are changing because people are demanding it. And there are certain rules that are being instituted that I support and that kind of encourage that. But it's also an organic process where more and more people do have access and more and more, there is more diversity. in the storytelling and in the actors that we see

and in the stories that are being told internationally as well. Sure. I mean, you obviously have always been sought after for, with great material and great directors, but have you, did you ever feel a struggle to not do the wife role, the mother role, did it feel like it was tough to find nuanced, nuanced roles at any point in your career? Well, yeah, I mean, I didn't, I think that I always,

you know, quite frankly, I just felt grateful. I did. I felt like, wow, okay, I got to play this part with the, you know, opposite some of the people that you're naming De Niro or Harrison Ford. So, I felt very lucky to be working, especially with good directors. So at the time, you know, I didn't think about it that way. I also didn't know where things were going. You never know

where things are going. And to, just to have work, you know, And I mean, it wasn't that long before that, that I was wondering, would I ever be able to get a movie? I mean, I didn't know. You never know what's going to happen. You just come out and you sort of try. But I remember thinking, it wasn't really until I was, I don't know, maybe out of college or around that time, that I began to think about movies or being in movies. It just didn't occur to me. I wasn't that schooled in movies, and I just, I wasn't somebody who grew up thinking about that.

But then I would see a good movie and I would think, well, I guess somebody has to be in them. Why not? How does that happen? You know? So that's, and then I thought maybe if I came to New York and started doing theater, that that would be a way that I could find my way in. I had, you know, I was from San Diego. I lived in San Francisco. L.A. was kind of the place that everybody sort of was like, I don't know.

The Northern Californians looked down on it. The southern, you know, San Diego's looked down on it. Well, the whole world looks down on it, right? Yeah. Anyway, so I did think about going there and was just, you know, I just was a very, I was naive, quite frankly. I was just ignorant about the business. So I, which is fine. It didn't matter. But I knew how to act, and I trained, and I worked, and then I, so then I came to New York to try to see if I could be in plays and that people would see me that way, and that would be a way in. I have to say I'm somewhat obsessed I've watched a lot of interviews with you

your wonderful parents who worked together for 60 plus year 73 oh my god my dad just died three months ago he was 97 oh my gosh yeah unbelievable it's just incredible they got married in 1950 amazing yeah and as I understand it had like the house that like you were in as a child or like a young person yeah I mean we moved into a tract home when I was 10 And we had a couple, we had moved to San Diego in 1965, and then when I was 10 years old, we moved into this neighborhood that was one of those, you know, tracked home neighborhoods where all the houses were being built kind of as we were moving in,

and there was the new high school down the road, and the new church down the road, and this is the house that my mom still lives in. Yeah, and they, you know, lived in that house all of those years, slept in the queen-sized bed. I mean, it's amazing. They were incredible, and my mom is still with us, so. What did they make of?

Because as I understand it, there was no history of the arts in your family necessarily. Were they open-minded, shocked at the trajectory of your career? Yeah, they must have been. I mean, when I went to high school. I graduated early just because of having a lot of credits. I was working. You know, I had jobs. And then I just went to community college in the neighborhood.

you know, and it was a dollar a unit. And by the way, you know, community college, that was one of Obama's big things, was the promised program in making community college free, which in many places it is still free, as it should be. And that was his idea that, hey, it should be like high school. It should be free.

So anyway, I happened to go to a great little theater program, and that was just my good fortune. And started doing plays I mean, I knew nothing about Bertolt Brecht, and we were doing the Good Woman of Susswan, and I was playing the part, and I was, you know, I learned a lot really fast. So the way I kind of got into the whole thing

was just so kind of organic and just step by step, and then I went to San Francisco State, then I went to a conservatory, so it was all just kind of, you know, plotting along, just following it because I loved it, and I loved the intellectual rigor of the dramatic literature.

And I love, I mean, you alluded to this, Like, you know, your 20s are spent in the theater. And, you know, by the standards of film, it's kind of a relatively late start to get started in film. And you look at Diana Nyad, she retired by the time you essentially started your career in film. That's true. I took the opportunity to look back. It's been a while, but I watched The Grifters again, which is such a great piece of work if you guys haven't to see this.

To refresh Stephen Frears, John Cusack, Angelica Houston, as the title promises a bunch of comments. and women, your first Oscar nomination. Did you know what a plum part that was, or was it just an opportunity at the time? I had met Stephen Frears when he was doing dangerous liaisons, and Milus Foreman was doing Valmond. And I was in a play at the time, and I was up for both movies,

and both of these movies were based on the same book. At one point, Milish Foreman was working with Christopher Hampton, and then they parted ways, And then Christopher Hampton and Stephen Frears made their movie, and Milosh made the movie that I eventually was in. So I was up for a tiny part in dangerous liaisons, like the girl who gets the letter written on her ass. That was the part I was up for in that one,

and Milosh auditioned me for months and months and months for his movie. So I knew Stephen Frears, not well, but he knew my work. So then after Valmont, I guess, I remember Stephen, I remember Stephen asking Milosh to show him some film of me, because the movie hadn't come out yet. And then I think I had to go meet him.

I think it must have been that. And then he offered it to me. Somebody else might have turned it down, I'm not sure. But yes, I knew it was a great part. And it was kind of extraordinary. You know what? I don't think I actually read for him. I probably talked to him.

Because I remember thinking that he cast me really without any, you know, I didn't like give him a time. taste of what I might do or something. He just cast me. And what I ended up doing was just so, I mean, I certainly didn't know when I went and met him what it would eventually be like. He did tell me to watch Gloria Graham.

Yep, ironic. Yeah, it was. And it's based on a great book. Jim Thompson, who was the great crime novelist and wrote all of these fabulous stories. Basically, it's about cops that are crooked. most of the time. But the Gryfters also had another,

there was actually another major character in the book that was cut from the story. Anyway, it was a great book, and I really got into reading Jim Thompson and kind of that genre. That's not the voice I'm hearing today. Do you remember like putting on, like deciding on that will to the voice?

You know what? I think he told me, I remember him saying to me, I want you to lighten your voice. I remember him saying that. Steve Tablowski, who's the actor in the scene, I just did a movie with him last year. year. It's Chris

Pines' directorial debut. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so we had a hoot, you know, talking and catching up since making this, this would be 33 years ago. Yeah, yeah. Came out 92 years ago. Yeah, 33, 34 years ago.

Oh my gosh. Yeah. So that was great to see him. He's a wonderful actor. He's done a ton of stuff. I know. When he pops up, it's always a treat. Are you looking for a movie review show where the critic is at the top of his or her game, meticulously breaking down and explaining exactly why a film does or does not work? Well, good luck with the search. Because we're having fun here on Adam does movies. Each and every week, I hit the big blockbusters, I cover the streamers,

and I even toss in some movie news for fun. Check out the show on Spotify, on Apple Podcasts, on YouTube. And hopefully, we can do movies together. Hot. Hey, Michael. Hey, Tom. A big news to share it, right? Yes, huge, monumental, earth-shaking.

Heartbeat sound effect, big. Mait is back. That's right. After a brief snack nap. We're coming back. We're picking snacks? We're eating snacks. We're raiding snacks.

Like the snackologist we were born to be. Mates is back. Mike and Tom, eat snacks. Wherever you get your podcast. Unless you get them from a snack machine, in which case, Call us. Call us. So I do want to talk about, I mean, I love Bugsy.

Bugsy is a fantastic film. I'm sure you have probably have different reasons for loving it than I do. No, I love it. It's a good movie. It's a legit, great movie. It's a good movie. It's got, I think Tobac wrote the script, and Levinson directed, of course. It has that great Ennio Morricone score.

I'm always a sucker for. It's gorgeous to look at. Is it true that you had met with Warren or were at least up for Dick Tracy prior to Bugsy? I was supposed to meet him and I remember my agent at the time was very skeptical about it. It was like, yes, he wants to, but he meets everyone. Anyway, I was supposed to meet him and then he had to cancel once. And then the second time we were going to meet on Dick Tracy, I had to cancel because of something important. important. So we never met.

Got it. That was the... That's what happened. I mean, I can see for a thousand reasons why that's a special... I mean, the dialogue is just delicious. That's James Tobak. Yeah. Yeah.

So when you see that scene, I mean, you're seeing a lot there because I imagine you're also seeing the beginning of the rest of your life in some ways, yes? We've been married 32 years. We have poor children. Crazy. And relatively soon thereafter, you worked together in Love Affair. Was it different? I mean, obviously by then you were the couple, you were married, you were starting a family.

Was the dynamic different? I mean, you've since worked with him, been directed by him, and rules don't apply. Yeah, so love affair, we had our baby, you know, with us, and we only had one little baby running around. So now that all seems so simple. And I also got pregnant, let me see, see, love affair, yeah. Yes, I got pregnant. And so we were, you know, we were very lucky because we just wanted to have kids and we did it. And I was very fortunate because I always wanted kids from when I was really little.

It was a big thing for me. I was a babysitter and I was the youngest of four and I just, it was just for me a very, very strong. instinct that came when I was a little girl. So it was a great, you know, I just feel so lucky that I was able to do that and that I could, that I could do that. I mean, the life of your children, they live in a much different, they were raised in a much different environment for a thousand different reasons than the environment you were raised in. It must have been a concern to like, how do I keep my children sane and humble? And I mean, you guys are obviously amazing, but still the periphery of

of what that world you're in is a bananas one. Yeah, and of course until you start to experience it or see what they experience, even as little kids, when they're around, you know, when I'm with them and somebody approaches me or my husband or, you know, some innocent person that doesn't mean any harm but just sort of ignores them or says something inappropriate or whatever,

and of course much bigger issues as they get older. So no, I remember very, very well a moment where I thought, wow, I never thought that my success in my profession would be something that would be difficult for my own kids. But of course, it is a particular challenge. Now, there's a lot of wonderful things that come with it. And there's a lot of advantages, obviously, and they are very much well aware of those. But it is something that you have to work through as a kid, and you're right.

Neither of us had any idea of what it would be like to grow up in the way that they did because we both grew up in such, you know, completely different ways than our own children did. So, yeah, it's something, it's like so many things in life. Until you actually experience it, you can't really figure it out. You can't anticipate it. You can't save them or protect them from some of the things that they're going to be subjected to. But that's just what's been handed to them. That's part of their fate. It is interesting. I mean, like, your career is remarkable. one. It's proof that you can prioritize family and still have a successful, amazing career. I mean, I know family was always first for you, your marriage, your children, and sure,

some jobs you had to pass on, but the proof's in the pudding when we look at this resume. Well, thank you. I mean, I, you know, I did, I'm really glad I continued to work, and I glad I could take time off. That was an incredible gift, you know, that I could do that. and when I was working so many years in the theater and I kept doing plays, I didn't do them for a long time and then I started up again sort of after I'd had three kids and I would do plays in L.A. as well

and it's just a brutal schedule for children. Actually, movies is easier to manage than being in the theater because obviously you're up late at night, you're not putting them down, then in the morning you're not getting up because if you got up in the morning by the time you get to the third act of Hedda Gabbler you're like, wow, I guess getting up up at 6.30 doesn't really work, or five, or whenever it is, they wake up. So, yeah, I learned a lot, you know, with that, and I did do the best I could.

I mean, I wasn't perfect, and, you know, we all do the best we can as parents. But I think it was, I'm really glad, now that I'm the age I am, I'm 65, I'm really glad I did continue working because I think it was important for me as a human being, but there were times it was, you know, hard to juggle it. but I kind of finagled things and, you know, I didn't leave to do movies or if I did, it was in the summer they could come and we kind of figured it out as we went.

Well, it also shows your children, your passion and like your love, and it's a great example to that, both you and Warren, of your passion for the arts. Yeah, no, and my mother, it was interesting, my mom did stay at home and she, but she was a singer and she was a voice major in college and there was always a lot of music in my house

and a lot of, you know, that, it was, we didn't go to movies and stuff, stuff or plays, but we did have music. And she was always very, very supportive of me and never saw any duality in it. I think I felt it more internally just because I'd been raised by a mom who didn't have another job, you know, that she didn't work outside the home. No good segue to this, but I have one nerdy, what if question. It's famous that, again, it connects to family.

You were going to be Catwoman way back when in Batman Return. and this Michelle Pfeiffer, obviously unbelievable in that role. But you were going to, like, did you ever get into costume? Like, how far down that road did you get? You know what? What happened was I got pregnant and I, yeah, I did. And, I mean, it was so, it was so surprising because I was trying to get pregnant and I had never been pregnant. So I didn't know how long it was going to take. It didn't take very long.

So then I was supposed to do Batman, and I didn't want to announce my pregnancy. Right. Because, of course, you never want to do that early because, for obvious reasons. So I was actually measured for my cat suit. Wow. As comfortable as it looks for Michelle? Was it fond memories of that session? They did a whole body cast in those days.

I'm sure they wouldn't have to do it that way now, but then in those days they would do an entire body cast. and then, you know, I had to call Tim Burton and say, I'm having a baby. I mean, there's a good end to that story at least, yes. I have a 32-year-old child right now. There you go. And we still have a good performance from the great Michelle Pfeiffer, all good. Yeah, she knocked it out of the park with that whip. Wow.

Made an impression on a young man, let me tell you. Do you have the same affection for the American president that I do, and I assume everybody in this room does? I mean, what a classic. Thank you. I do. I love that movie. My parents love that movie, so that was a good one for my parents to watch. There were quite a few they didn't want to watch. They are good Republicans after all. It feels like science fiction now. It feels like it's not even like remotely connected to our planet, sadly.

Yeah, I worked for the NRDC in that movie. I mean, can you imagine? If anybody even knows what that is. My wife works for the NRDC. So we always referenced that film in my family. Oh, my God, how funny. Yeah. And I just ran into Rob Reiner. No, it was a, it was. It was a great experience and it's funny. One of the things I remember from that was the OJ trial was going on while we were shooting that film. And Rob Reiner would watch the trial in between takes and then kind of update us on what was going

on. Amazing. You know, in Los Angeles, that was a big deal. Well, it was all over the world, but especially in Los Angeles. Around that time, so there were three different collaborations with the great Mike Nichols in your career. I always like to talk about him because I know what an impact he made on some. so many actors for a thousand different reasons.

Let's see, there was postcards from the edge. There was the underscene. I want to revisit it. What planet are you from with the great Gary Shandling? I'm missing. What am I missing, of course. Regarding Henry. Of course, regarding Henry with Harrison Ford.

Written by JJ Abrams, by the way, when he was like 14 years old seemingly. He was the kid. That's what Nichols called him, the kid. Crazy. So, I mean, I guess just in a nutshell, I assume Nichols meant a lot to you as he did for many actors. What was special about him? Why do actors always talk about Mike Nichols?

I think because he was such a great audience. He just, he loved, loved actors. He was not a perfect person, right? Nobody is. But he was our hero because he was so smart and just made you feel so good, made you feel so entertaining and sufficient. And I was also just lucky.

the first time, I crossed paths with him first in New York in the theater, and we were gonna do a play that eventually, it was a Neil Simon play that they were going to do, it was eventually called Jake's Women, and it was all about the different women in his life, and it was a very, very good play, and I think they decided they didn't wanna do it at that point. So that's when I first met him,

so he saw me audition and all of that. And then when they were working on postcards from the edge, Carrie Fisher was writing the script obviously and he and she and Mike were working on it together and they would do readings to kind of work work it up and so it would be Shirley McLean and Merrill Streep and then a group of us who were doing plays in New York would play all the other parts and we would read the play we would read the screenplay and I think we did that twice and you know then they would discuss it and and and then each of us it was me and Oliver Platt for sure the two of us and then I think a couple of other people and then we each got one scene in the movie. So that's how it worked. And so I got a little taste of that. I mean, that's incredible. He also was a, he was a, I remember when they got the movie up and going, he did a big reading at the beginning and he took out the whole sound stage and he set up this huge table. That's very unusual for a movie. They set up a big, you know, tables around and

So all the actors were there. And if you remember in the film, both Shirley and Merrill perform in the movie, and they sing, and it's incredible. I mean, Shirley in that movie, I mean, it twirled up. I mean, come on. Shirley is, you know, it's a great, it's a great performance.

Anyway, they sang. They did their numbers. They had music. They had piano players. I mean, it was like a big thing. He was really, he loved all of that. And he was always kind to me and generous to me. and very supportive.

It's, you know, it's interesting. I think of, you know, circling back to Nyat, like, you think of the comparisons between great athletes and great actors, and there's some comparisons to be made, but I guess a difference is, like, success and failure is much easier to figure out in sports. That's right, that's right.

Like, what is your definition of success for you as an actor? Clearly, it's not how much it made. You could care less about, I mean, it's a nice thing, but, like, how do you assess your successful, performance or experience for yourself? That's a good question. I don't know that I have a really good answer for that.

I think it's, I know that I'm very self-critical. So that's something that we all just have to deal with as performers. I'm sure you probably, because you listen to yourself, you watch yourself, it's not always a good feeling. And at the very beginning, when I first watched myself, I remember very well. I remember the Gifters particularly. I think I was here in New York City, and I, you know,

to tell you the truth, I had a very very well. very negative reaction. And I just also, see, I'd been acting a while and I'd never seen myself act. Because I didn't have to. And so everybody knows now, because there's so many more cameras around, you see yourself when you're making certain expressions

or what your face looks like, and I just was not used to it. And I was hypercritical for a while. But the reason it was good to watch was, at times, was that for me, I could learn something. Right. And I could see that there were times I could have made something better. And I see that now, no matter what, when I see a scene.

I think, oh, I could have, usually simpler is what I think. Oh, I could have just done that simpler. Or sometimes it's very technical. You know, sometimes you think, God, if I just turned this way a little bit more, it might have been better. Or, you know, there are things that you do know you could make better. of course that's just the creative process, right? There's no sort of end point.

If you're doing takes, you can always do more takes. You might feel, oh, yeah, that was probably a good thing. But then you know that if you did a few more, if you had time, you might find something else. Or something surprising might happen. Or there might be a sound that happens often somewhere that kind of draws your attention away, or your partner does something different that stimulates you and something else. you and so something just happens and that's the thing you want. That's what you're chasing.

You're chasing that. And that's very hard to get because, you know, there's all these machines around you and there's all those people and there's the cameras and the cameras in one place and the, you know, there's just all this stuff that sort of conspires to make things not spontaneous. So you have to be the one that figures out how to do that in whatever way it is that stimulates you, whether it's taking your focus off of it for a while and then coming back. to it, or joking around, or sitting quietly in a corner, whatever it is that works. But that's the trick, is just that's the thing that you never anticipated, the thing that you

never planned, you never thought the other person would do, and then something happens. That's what you always want. I think we just got a four-minute little master class. That was amazing. I think I just went on a little too long. No, that was perfect. No, I could listen to that all day. And I would imagine, like, connecting to NIA, like, you're in the water.

That must be, almost be, like, a freeing experience. Yes. Because you have to be, like, busy, the elements are not going to abide by. You're absolutely right. Yeah. Yes. Loosens you up, takes you out of your own head, hopefully, a little bit. Okay, we're jumping around because that's what my brain does.

That's fine. Me too. I want to mention, I mean, we can talk kids are all right. But you know what I want to talk about is 20th century women, which is such a wonderful film from Mike Mills, an amazing performance again. Thank you. I also love your work with the young actors in that, and that must be so inspiring and exciting, whether it was Greta Gerwig is in that film, if you want to revisit it, Elle Fanning. Does that excite you?

Does that like to get that juice of like the next wave to work with them? Yes, because, and Elle is extraordinary actress, and I just keep following what she's doing. I'm going to see her play because she's in a play right now on Broadway. So the reason that working with really good younger actors is so helpful is that generally they are untrained and they're just doing it. So, you know, I've gone to school, I know about objectives and, you know, actions and obstacles and all the things that you learn in acting school that can be useful. The instinct is the most important thing, obviously. and so those are good to have just in case you get messed up. You feel phony.

You feel fake. You don't know what to do. There's something wrong. You feel it in your gut. And you think, oh, yeah, what do I want? What do I want to do to that person? What do I want them to do? What do I need?

What's in my way? All those basic questions, then you just start opening that up and it starts to help. But they don't know any of that. And so the really good ones, they're just good. They're just true. And Josh, Hutch, Hutcherson, and, well, I was just actually thinking about... Mia.

Mia. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But L. And they have an emotional truth that's just so stabilizing. So then that's so much of what we do is just reacting and listening, right? And just being in the same place as your partner. So they help me to try to be simple and just be there and listen and respond. And Elle is, she's very skilled.

She's, because I actually did another movie with her too. She's, you know, just very, very special and very, God, when I met, it's funny, I'm thinking about when I met her, and she was still in high school, and I talk about unasked for advice, I was just like, you should go to high school. You should not do so many movies. You should just go back and, like, be a kid. I think she kind of always remembers that because she kind of liked it

I think I was like talking to her grandmother or something and saying you know she's doing too many movies she needs to just like be a kid she's so special oh she's amazing I've been talking to her since she was literally like this oh really right because she started working when she was like six like Jody

Jody started working when she was I don't know three or four right like Gerber baby basically I mean she was Jody Foster I asked her the other day when we were interviewed together she's 61 I said how many years You've been in the business. She said 57. That's an unfair percentage.

That's just not right. Wow. I'm Amy Nicholson, the film critic for the L.A. Times. And I'm Paul Shear, an actor, writer, and director. You might know me from the League, Veep, or my non-eligible for Academy Award role in Twisters. We come together to host unspooled. A Unspooled, a podcast where you talk about good movies, critical hits. Fan favorites, musts season, and in case you missed them.

We're talking Parasite the Home Alone. From Greece to the Dark Night. So if you love movies like we do, come along on our cinematic adventure. Listen to Unspooled wherever you get your podcast. And don't forget to hit the follow button. Goodbye, summer movies, Hello Fall. I'm Anthony Devaney. And I'm his twin brother, James.

We host Raiders of the Lost Podcast, the Ultimate Movie Podcast, and we are ecstatic to break down late summer and early fall releases. We have Leonardo DiCaprio leading a revolution in one battle after another, Timothy Salome playing power ping pong in Marty Supreme. Let's not forget Emma Stone and Jorgos Lanthamos' Bougonia. Dwayne Johnson, he's coming for that Oscar in The Smashing Machine, Spike Lee and Denzel teaming up again, plus Daniel DeLuis's return from retirement. There will be plenty of blockbusters to chat about, too.

Tron Aries looks exceptional, plus Mortal Kombat 2, and Edgar writes, The Running Man, starring Glenn Powell. Search for Raiders of the Lost podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube. Okay, it's official. We are very much in the final sprint to election day. And face it, between debates, polling releases, even court appearances. It can feel exhausting, even impossible to keep up with. I'm Brad Milkey.

I'm the host of Start Here, the Daily Podcast from ABC News. And every morning my team and I get you caught up on the day's news in a quick, straightforward way that's easy to understand with just enough context so you can listen, get it, and go on with your day. So, kickstart your morning. Start Smart with Start Here and ABC News, because staying informed shouldn't feel overwhelming. On the flip side of the kind of films we've been talking about, it was fun to see you with Brie Larson and that content. the effects, the costumes, and all of that. Was the joy of at least playing with someone like Brie? Did that override the accoutrements? Oh, it was a blast.

I loved it. It was so much fun. It was such a gift. And I remember when they asked me to do it, I had a benefit here in New York for what used to be called the Actors Fund and is now called the Entertainment Community Fund. And I am now chairman of the board of the trustees.

I just got to throw that in there. It is a superb social services organization for people in show business. Everybody, behind the camera, in front of the camera, behind the curtain, in front of the curtain. And we help everybody with all kinds of needs. Anyway, we do an annual gala, and I had asked my husband to be honored, which he said, yes. And then he tried to get out of it. And I was like, you can't get out of it. You said you would do it.

That's like him with every film in his career, isn't it? That's basically the Warren Beatty thing. On the Monday night, here we were, we had to be in New York City. And the movie, and it was a huge movie. You know these movies. They spent, God, and knows how much money they spent, making them. And they needed me in California Tuesday morning. And so I said, I'd really like to do this, but I can't because I have to be in New York City at the gala.

So, I went to the gala. They put me on a private jet. I flew to Fresno. They picked me up in a car, I don't know, three in the morning, drove me to the mountains to this lake. There's a scene where I die, remember when I get out of the plane? That's the scene. So then I went to a condo for three hours and slept,

got up, went to the set, and they have this huge plane wreck that they've staged at this lake. It was unbelievable. And then I'm in the wreck and I get out and I die in the sand. and I tell her to carry on. And it was like, I couldn't believe. Is this my life? Am I doing this?

I mean, it was a blast. And then we got to go to Edwards Air Force Base and shoot there the next day. So, I mean, it was, I just, it was such a gift. And they were all kind of burned out by that time, too. Why isn't that so happy? We're all miserable. Because those movies are long and arduous.

But for me, it was a lark, you know. It was just such fun. I mean, it's funny to hear, I mean, I love hearing that enthusiasm because, like, you know, you've been in the game for a minute, and you're like, you're part of the Hollywood firmament. Like, you, like, when you think of, like, the links to the past and the last generation through you and your husband, it's like, when I think of, like, old Hollywood meets New Hollywood, I'm thinking of you guys. You know, but the simple thing is, is that when you sit down to work with a group of people and you're around the table, just like the same. from when I started in high school and to now like when we sat down to work on Nyad it's the same thing same thing it's just like and that feeling inside your you know the pit of your stomach and like this excitement and what could happen

and that doesn't really change it's just the same it's it is that you know it's that spark inside so it doesn't matter how much you've done although maybe you have a little more experience and so that helps but sure You know, you always learn something new anyway. Here's my random thing that I heard about you guys at some point. Are you California Pizza Kitchen fans? Do you love them? Yes. Yeah, that's what I heard.

Yes. I respect that. I love California Pizza. Do you respect that? Yeah. Do you like the barbecue chicken pizza? Yeah, of course. It's a classic.

Okay, my husband likes that. I get the shredded chicken salad, the Chinese chicken salad. Not on the pizza, like the actual salad. No, the actual salad. But I then I'll have a piece of the pizza maybe if I'm in the mood. You don't go to a pizza, place and get the salad. What are you doing? We're ordering in, man. No, I used to go there with my kids. We're having our first fight. This is adorable. We know each other well enough. Yeah,

we got there. It's just a curiosity. Let me see what wonderful questions our audience has come up with here. Let's see. Over how many days were the ocean swimming scenes shot? I know that's trade secret. You weren't in the ocean, were you? We were in a tank. I was in a tank. We were tank. It is a 70 meter by 70 meter tank that this one is, oh, my mic is kind of popping. I hope our sound guy is not upset. It's in the Dominican Republic, and it was built, I think, many years ago, many decades ago. So it's adjacent to the ocean, but not connected to the ocean. So when, if you can picture this huge tank and it's situated close to the ocean, and there are, you know, screens on the side that they can eventually project things onto.

And there's a huge ramp on this side, and the ocean's out there. So this ramp is where all the equipment is, and all the crew and the cameras and the cranes and all the stuff. He's here. Also, our cinematographer, Claudio Miranda, built a small, like, little device that hung on the inside of the platform that he could crawl into and get a camera in, and they would push him like with like a trolley across the across the platform so I'd be

swimming like this and then he would be in his little camera house shooting me but then we also had a genius underwater photographer Pete Zuckarini who's like a merman he's 6'3 and he's got fins this long and he's also a free diver so he has a crew and

they do documentaries they do all kinds of stuff and his crew member will be on the surface so we've got the boat all ready I'm in the water ready we've got Pete Pete takes a big breath and then everybody waits and then he goes down

he just takes a free diving breath goes down then he's down in there he's like down there I can see him he's waiting for me and then he goes like this to his assistant the assistant says go they say action then we start moving I'm swimming and he's down there underwater you know shooting me swimming backwards like this

so we did a lot of that. Amazing. And then we did have one day in the ocean, but it was only one. We kind of, because Netflix didn't really want me to get in the ocean, which was, but it's also impossible to shoot on the ocean. It's a very famous thing. Movies on the water, it's like a nightmare. The, the technical demands and trying to be on boats, it's just really messy. So that's why tanks were invented. So if they shoot in this direction, they can make it look like it's the ocean, right? Because they can line the cameras up with the tank and the water and then connect to the real ocean, and you get the illusion that you're in the middle of the water.

But we did have one day on a boat, and it was me and Jimmy, one of the directors, who's also an extreme athlete. So Jimmy is a climber extraordinaire, and he's also just an all-around surfer dude, you know, swimmer. He's an incredible athlete. So Jimmy and I went out in this boat with Pete Zagrini, the underwater photographer, and one of our stunt women went with us too, and we did get a couple of shots that we used. One is just me swim through fish, and there's another one where I'm kind of suspended

vertically in the water. And so Katie, our stunt person, because I couldn't stay vertical. They wanted me to get sort of like, like, you know, straight up and down in the water, and they were shooting me this way, and I couldn't, I just kept floating up. And so Katie dove down

grabbed and held her breath grabbed my foot and was pulling it and I was like this in the water and then we got the shot except you don't see Katie well it speaks to something that a theme in the film that is I'd love to connect to like

acting which is like we think of athletes often as like it's all about them but there's a team behind them there is there's an apparatus they're the coaches the friends the family that help them get to where they are In your own career, in your own craft, who's the unsung hero you think in your career?

I think, I don't know. I mean, I really value my teachers. I had good teachers, and I always think about my teachers because I really needed all of that. I didn't really, I'd never met an actor, really, when I wanted to become one. I wasn't sophisticated. I wasn't worldly. I hadn't traveled. I hadn't seen a lot of plays.

I just fell in love with the theater. I went to the Old Globe Theater in San Diego and saw Shakespeare and just thought, oh man, it's so alive. It's so vital. And I don't understand everything they're saying, but I know what they mean. And I just loved it.

And so then I just started kind of doing it. It was just very, like I said, organic. But I certainly appreciate it. my parents. They were always. They went, oh my God, I was in so many bad plays. I can't even tell you. I can't imagine what it was like sitting through some of the plays that I was in. Some of them were probably okay. But some of them, the potting shed by Graham Green. Who even knew that he wrote this play? And we did that in junior college and I was in it. My parents, they went to all of those plays. And they were very, they were always supportive and nice about it. They never, you know, criticized me. This is always a tough one, but I'm thankful it's not coming from me. What role haven't you performed would you like to take on? Are you an

actor that thinks about a kind of role? I used to when I was in the theater and I just wanted to do all the classics and all the great parts. I don't think about that now. I also have fewer illusions about the theater than I used to when I started.

And I did get to play a lot of the parts that I wanted to play. Hedda Gabbler was a part that I wanted to play. I tried. I trained and worked a lot on Nora in Dahl's House, but I never actually got to play it. So now, sometimes I think about a few of the plays

that might be out there for me to do, but I, you know, I think the answer is not really. I'm so interested in what's happening now, new writing, what's coming out, what people are interested in, and I do love working on film. I love

the camera. I love the luxury of the camera and the intimacy of that experience, the intimacy of the experience with the other people in the room that you're working with. So I really love that process. I have fallen in love with it after feeling very awkward on sets for quite a while. I didn't feel, I felt like I was stage actress kind of pretending that I was on a set and kind of knew what I was doing and I was, it felt awkward. It doesn't feel awkward anymore.

Didn't read in the clips we saw, so don't worry. Let's end with the happy second fuse, profoundly random questionnaire. Is there an actor you're ever mistaken for? Who's the last actor you were mistaken for? Wait, yeah, I think that has happened to me. Diane Keaton. Oh. Sometimes people will say that and I'll just say thank you.

Or they'll say, do I know you? You look familiar. People say that to me. I love that. Do you have a pet peeve on a set? Like, what drives you crazy on a set? You seem pretty easy going. Shouting down.

Yeah. And I've seen it very rarely, but I have seen it. People who are mean to people under them. Unacceptable. And of course, now I would ever so diplomatically say something quietly. But when I was younger, I didn't do that. And I would see it happen, and I would think, I couldn't believe it. Or, you know, and again, this has happened so.

I've had so few bad experiences, but I've seen a few people who behave badly. And I just really, really bothers me. And of course, now I would say something, and I would do it quietly and diplomatically. But when I started, it wasn't my place sometimes, and I just saw it happen. And I thought, how can that person possibly act that way? I don't know, maybe someday I'll throw a big fit on a set.

I've got to do it someday. Damn it. You've earned it. God damn it, yes, I've earned it. Apropos of that, is what's the worst noted director has ever given you? Does one pop out? Long intellectual explanations. They're the worst.

That's another thing Nichols was so good at. Just precise, easy. I was very surprised by this when I started doing movies because in the theater, everyone's so verbose, and everyone's always talking, and the actors are talking, and it's all about language, and the directors are talking, and everyone's just explaining things constantly and exploring, and blah, blah, it's just like language everywhere.

And going on a set and really good directors who don't say much. And I thought, oh, that's interesting. It's because once they cast you, they know that that's going to be the main thing that happens. And that's good directors, right? They really know. And so, louder, softer, faster, faster, slower, just do it again. Or maybe a small thing that they might. say that's a kind of shorthand

that the two of you have developed. But I remember working on something when somebody kind of went into a long explanation of the character's history, like as we're sitting on the set, and I thought, wow, no, this is not helping me. And by the way, I don't think I was doing a very good job at the moment, so it wasn't

so I could understand his frustration. You know, he was trying to help me. I get that. He was coming from the right place, but it doesn't work. But often that's also overcompensating for like almost an inadequate. Like, let me show you how much I know. Yeah, no, I think in the case that I'm thinking of, no, I think he was just genuinely

in a, trying to, you know, he wanted to see something. It came from a good place, it was just the wrong path. Yeah, yeah, yeah. In the spirit of happy, second, fuse, who's an actor that always makes you happy? You see them on screen. Happy in the sense of... You can interpret out how you will. Okay, well, one actor I want to mention.

is Jesse Plymonds. Oh, I love him. Yeah. What an incredible actor. Yeah. I mean, have you ever seen him be false for a second? No. He's astonishing.

I think he's really inspiring me. I also saw Past Lives and the actor Teo You. Oh, my God. By the way, he, I think, he has a very interesting backstory and in relation to the film as well. And I got to meet him the other night. What an actor.

Wow. Erica Alexander. Oh, I'm not sure right now. Who is in American fiction. Oh, yes, yeah. I know exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I thought she was fantastic.

And I can't wait to see more from her. Were you a Friday Night Lights fan for Jesse Plymouth? Did you ever watch that? You should check it out. I got to check it out. I missed that. I probably was having a kid at the time. I'm not kidding.

There's like, I'm sure women now. here. No, it's like there's these huge swaths of time. It's like, what happened? I don't remember taking a shower even. It's like, yeah, I missed certain things. A movie that makes you sad, always gets you, brings you to tears? Well, for sure, it's a wonderful life. We just watched it again. Love Actually, we watched that again over the holidays. So that comes to mind. But is there anything, you know, greater than that? I love being, you know, taken down the that road and if it's a good movie it gets you the same way every time and finally food that makes you confused food yeah hmm um let me think about that we're ending with the hardest most important question of the night i know i'm stumped oh my gosh yeah you got me okay well to be continued on our next session that's okay uh congratulations on naiad before this uh annette was like, I'm not a good storyteller. All

evidence to the contrary. You couldn't shut me up. No, I loved it. I loved every minute of it. Thank you, Josh. You are fantastic in this film. Everybody, if you haven't checked it out, check out Nyad. Good luck on the City Awards thing. You deserve everything. Give it up one more time for Annette Benning.

And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcast. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressure to do this by Josh. Are you looking for a movie review show where the critic is at the top of his or her game, meticulously breaking down and explaining exactly why a film does or does not work?

Well, good luck with the search. Because we're having fun here on Adam does movies. I talk to you like we just got done seeing a movie together, giving you the pros and cons, And I'm digging in the trenches, in the mud and muck, on streaming services, telling you which films are worth your time. Each and every week, I hit the big blockbusters, I cover the streamers, and I even toss in some movie news for fun.

Because this show, as Adam does movies. I'm obviously Adam. I probably should have led with that. But perhaps I have led you to check out the show on Spotify, on Apple Podcasts, on YouTube. And hopefully, we can do movies together. Hoo-ho-ho-ho-ho-hot. Thank you.