Happy Sad Confused - Anthony & Joe Russo, Vol. III (Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Special!)

Episode Date: May 6, 2019

Anyone interested in a little film called "Avengers: Endgame"? Here it is, the conversation you've been waiting to hear. A SPOILER-filled discussion with the directors behind the global phenomenon everyone is talking about! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

During the Volvo Fall Experience event, discover exceptional offers and thoughtful design that leaves plenty of room for autumn adventures. And see for yourself how Volvo's legendary safety brings peace of mind to every crisp morning commute. This September, lease a 2026 XE90 plug-in hybrid from $599 bi-weekly at 3.99% during the Volvo Fall Experience event. Conditions apply, visit your local Volvo retailer or go to explorevolvo.com.

It got Willa. They got my daughter. I need to find her. Willa! From acclaimed director, Paul Thomas Anderson. You can save that girl. On September 26th, experience what is being called the best movie of the year. This is the end of the line.

Not for you. Leonardo DiCaprio, Sean Pan, Benicio del Toro, Tiana Taylor, Chase Infinity. Let's go! Here I come. One battle after another. Only in theater, September 26th. Experience it in IMAX. Today on Happy, Sad, Confused, an Avengers Endgame spoiler special with directors Anthony and Joe Russo.

Hey guys, I'm Josh Horowitz. Welcome to a very special edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Look, unless you've been living in a cave, and who knows, it might even be playing in a cave near you, Avengers End game. is the one and only movie that literally everybody is aware of you've probably seen once, maybe twice by now like me. It has dominated the pop culture landscape

the last few weeks, and it's time to have one of those conversations that can only come with a little distance. It's time for a spoiler chat. We did this last year after Infinity War came out. I had Joan Anthony Russo, the directors of Infinity War, come on, and they spilled all the beans,

they answered all my questions, there was nothing off limits. And And they did it again. These guys are great. I mean, they're just so easy to talk to. I've spent a lot of time with them, especially the last couple years, and even the last few weeks, this is my third conversation with them in a matter of weeks. But the first time, at least this year, where I could dive into all the spoilers. So the usual preamble for something like this that goes without saying, but I will say it nonetheless. Only listen to this conversation if you've seen Avengers Endgame. I don't know why you would listen otherwise, unless you're just, you consume media in a different. way than I do. But if you have seen Avengers endgame and you want to really dive deep and answer some burning questions and hear from the great minds that directed this kind of unprecedented event, this is the spoiler podcast for you. Joan Anthony Russo, you know, along with Kevin Feigy, of course, and Marcus and McPhile, the two screenwriters, have really crafted something that is unique. I mean, like, look, say what you will. If you have quibbles and I, yeah,

Sure, I have co-wobbles with both Infinity War and Endgame. But on the whole, I have such admiration for what they were able to do. They're such impressive feats of storytelling. And they, in some ways, have redefined how, I mean, this sounds kind of grandiose, but how movies are made in terms of what the structure of a movie can even look like. No one has juggled this kind of complex storytelling in this way, wrapping up 22 films into kind of interlocking films like this with this many characters and man they really did it they really did

I've seen I've seen endgame twice I'll see it at least a couple more times probably in a theater before the end of its run it's such a satisfying film experience emotionally I think it's it's very moving given what we've been through with these characters for my money and I say this to the guys like I I was so impressed with so many of the actors in this film. Downey, who I've always loved, I think it gives maybe his best performance as Tony Stark since the original Iron Man.

He just, I'm so glad he was able to cap off this run with this juicy, a character arc in his final film in the MCU. Evans is great. I mean, everyone down the line, I was saying to somebody and to these guys, like the fact that Benedict Cumberbatch is on the, screen for as little as he is and yet registers so well. It just speaks volumes of how

impressively Feige and company have cast these films. And, you know, something like Endgame, it begs a lot of questions. Not all of them can be answered, of course, in a podcast. But this one gets at a lot. I found out a lot of really interesting stuff in this conversation. And I think you guys will enjoy it. Yeah. So anyway, I'm so thrilled that they, you know, honored the request they've been really busy these guys have earned a vacation but um i have a feeling we're going to be talking about endgame um throughout the year and maybe even into award season i would be totally down with that anyway that's enough preamble uh on to the main event this is why you came here today for all the spoiler talk so here it is an avengers end game spoiler conversation

with directors joe and anthony russo please remember to review rate and subscribe to happy say i confused spread the good word that's how people can discover conversations like this don't be greedy don't hug it all for yourself enjoy my chat with the russo brothers right now mr joan anthony rousseau you know what we're doing here yeah this is an annual tradition although i don't know how we're going to live up to this next year spoiler zone you've seen the movie like me probably at least twice We're talking Avengers Endgame. Guys, congratulations. This is a hell of an achievement.

Thank you so much, and we're really thrilled to be talking to again, so thank you. I imagine back when you're doing, when you're getting 20% on Rotten Tomatoes for you, Me, and Dupree, you're like, in about 12 or 13 years, I'm going to get what I deserve. You guys are going to ruin the day. You learn from your failures more than you do from your successes. There you go. All right, so let's talk on a macro level, first of all, like themes for this film. Because when I'm watching it, it's striking me. I'm thinking family. I'm thinking parents and children. I'm thinking, you know, Thor and his mom, Tony and his kid, Tony and his dad. Is that something that's like on the whiteboard family? Is that one of kind of the resonant themes for these two films?

I think so. I mean, certainly the Avengers have a strong theme of family surrounding them from their first sort of connection with one another. But I think also, you know, something that we discovered back on Winter Soldier when we were first working with the MCU, um was this i like the relationship between steve rogers and bucky barns was so intimate and so complicated and i remember as we were sort of circling that movie and and wrapping our heads around it creatively we ran right at that relationship because it's like all you know it just layers things so much and it sort of creates creates such an intimacy between those two characters especially when they're in an adversarial sort of position to one another through that film So I think we always run at these really intimate relationships in these movies.

Because, again, you're dealing with these big ensembles where there's lots of story. It's very complicated. It's like how do you get to a very rich, essential, complicated relationship quickly? Right. And certainly family relationships. Yeah, family's a great source of trauma. I remember talking to you about Infinity War and you've talked to others about this. In some ways, that was a more challenging film and that you began, correct me if I'm wrong, with kind of the

ending of these two films you knew where you wanted to end up absolutely you have to what was so what were the elements that were the end of end game what were you what was your starting point what were the ending points you knew you were heading towards we knew uh we knew what we're going to do with steve rogers i mean that was probably the most um important part of the uh the process for us was understanding where he was going to go as a character and we knew what was going to happen with with Tony Stark and that the snap was going to be reversed but at

the cost of his life and once we understood those two key dramatic elements for our co-leads of the Marvel Universe we could then go backwards through the story and write towards the endings and certainly if you go look at

Tony and Endgame he's reticent at the beginning he has a child now and he is worried about jeopardizing the life of his child by messing around with stones and with time travel and then ultimately he has to make a sacrifice to leave his wife and child

in order to restore the universe and bring back or protect, I should say, the lives of everyone who's come back. One of the most pleasurable moments I've had in a movie theater in some time is the moment when Cap gets the wields the hammer. It's, yeah, it just brings an audience to nearly its feet,

depending on where you are. How far back does that idea go? I think it goes all the way back to Ultron. You know, it was something that was, I think everyone, everyone who's a Marvel fan in that moment where Cap tested the hammer felt deep down on their heart that he was worthy and that he could potentially lift that.

And boy, wouldn't it be special one day if he did. And, you know, obviously, if you create drama around the circumstances of him wielding the hammer and then kicking Thanos' ass for 30 seconds after that,

we felt like we could create a risable moment for the audience. And I have to confess, we have snuck into more than one theater over the past week and have taken great pleasure in witnessing the audience reaction to that moment. Sure. You might as, man, you've earned it.

So why, in your heads, was he not able to wield the hammer until this moment? Well, in our heads, he was able to wield it. And he didn't know that until that moment in Ultron when he tried to pick it up. But Cap's sense of character and his sort of humility and is sort of like out of deference to Thor's ego, you know, cap in that moment, realizing he can move the hammer decides not to. Got it. And it was a selfless one. Yeah, exactly.

Exactly. It's very much... Thor says, I knew it, you know. Right. Which maybe you can't hear yet in movie theaters, but at some point... On a more trivial note, a round cap, did Evans always appreciate the America's ass beat, the runner of that? Yeah, I think it was a controversial joke, frankly. But Evans... Take some convincing or not?

Evans was okay with that. I think it took some convincing for everybody. We're all... Every time we... Every time we did the joke on set, we'd all... laugh. Then we go, I don't know, are we really going to do this joke? But, you know, there's something self-referential about the ending. There's something where, you know, there's a sense that the characters have grown and that they have, you know, a self-referential appreciation of

who they are as characters. And it's fun to like, you know, see a wizened cap, look back on this sort of, you know, quasi-stick in the mud. I also think it speaks to the fraternal nature of Cap and Tony's relationship, you know, this sort of like sibling ribbing, you know, and that I, that Cap just couldn't let that dig go. And we wanted to find a way to make fun of the, the Avengers suit without really making fun of it. But that was our subtle jab. You made me look like a genius when I quizzed you guys on body parts and I had Evans' butt as the caper in that. I was like, I'm on to something. I need to be in that writer's room. It was hard for us to keep quiet there. So, okay, so time travel-wise. I'm not getting into the nitty-gritty particulars. I know you're talking a lot to

explain the physics. It's enough for you to say like, fuck back to the future, basically. They got it wrong. I mean, here's the simple truth. And here's the, here's the fascinating thing about time travel, right? It doesn't exist. Spoiler. What? No, Joe. It doesn't. It's complete fiction. And the movie's fiction. Stop it. Stop this conversation right now. Just enjoy the movie. I agree. Somebody will figure it out someday. You do, you send your heroes back to some precise moments in MCU history.

Were there other, was Sukovia ever discussed? Was the beginnings of Iron Man in that cave ever discussed? Were there ever other places you seriously considered? There were other places. Oh, my God, I don't know if I can remember any. Well, there were different versions. Like, more, we had got, look,

we you know as is our process with marcus and mcfeeley and uh the writers and kevin faggy uh we we like to like chase down a lot of different scenarios so we do generally play with a lot of ideas especially sort of like for moments in the movie like this there was a moment where morag was a completely different set piece uh that's true it was a that was a completely different set piece and different characters were involved in that set piece yeah i do remember that and i think there might have been other things that I think both of us are blanking on. Can you elaborate on the Morag set piece?

Yeah, well, it was just to me. It was a, I think it was one moment where the entire planet was underwater now, and that was the complication when they arrived at Morag. They had to actually get to the temple of the power stone by, you know, going through this like the... They were going there earlier than Quill had gone.

Got it. And there was a tide shift on the planet, and it was underwater, and now they had to figure out. And it was a set piece, I think, that involved and involved Widow Hawkeye Nebula and Rode

all four of them were involved and there might have been a giant sea eel It's sounding like phantom menace The under the This is a very early idea

Then one day We're all sitting at everyone What the hell are we doing This is hard enough Why don't we creating this giant underwater seels So much emotional Capital with Quill

Just have Quill show up and they punch him in the face, and they take the stone. What about the pairings in terms of who you're sending back and in what pairings? Was there, was there one that you, like, were strongly at one point into that didn't, in the end, pan out, a different kind of grouping? No, I think we, I think where we ended up was exactly where, you know, I don't, was exactly, it felt right to us. It was a clear, clear sense of who has, who had a history with each other that felt like it would be rich for exploiting in, um, in in these uh set pieces you know for forcing cap and tony together you know sort of you know widow and hawkeye widow and hawkeye it's you know these are all sort of really nebula and rhodi is interesting it is an interesting one yeah

on the level that you know they're they're both um reconstructed right you know uh and um i think karen didn't an incredible job in this movie they just did a bit of an unsung hero in this film i mean she The character is, there's so much pathos around the character. Did Akoye or Marvel ever go back in any end of the duration? There was a version, I think. No, there was a version, I think, where Marvel had gone back. Again, again, like, these are all sort of grounded in story choices. For instance, like, we thought, like, Akoye, and her history as a character has been so sort of like Wakanda first.

Right. And that's really the challenge of her arc was, like, moving beyond that and supporting to Chala and the movement beyond that. So we thought in the wake of such a traumatic event like the snap and losing to Chala and half of all people. Someone had to run Wakanda. That she would revert to that, that sort of like homeland. Exactly. So we committed that idea for her because it felt truthful to her as a character.

And then we said Marvel you did consider her? We had involved Marvel at some point. We considered Marvel at some point. Yeah, there was a whole collector set piece and everything. You remember that they were playing around with? We developed this movie. for a very long time. But, you know, there was, one, once you start developing it, you can see how crowded it gets,

right? Two, and so we wanted to make sure that we had real, we had real story space to create conflict between the characters that were going back. And the original Avengers were the focus of the movie. And we felt like at a certain point, you know, Lang has to go because of the quantum realm and Pimp Particles, and he has so much to do with the Mcuffin of the movie. We really wanted to focus as essentially as we could on the original Six Avengers

and the Guardians had to go because they had essential information that the Avengers did not. So that was how simple we could make it and still keep it centered around the original Avengers. You have some fun stuff where obviously Cap facing off with Cap, Nebula, even facing off with Nebula. Was there ever any other kind of matchups like that?

Like you could have had, you know, Wadowski, Thor, versus buff Thor, presumably. We did have that. We did, actually. There was a sequence where they did couldn't finally confront one another in Asgard. I can't remember exactly why we moved off

of that. I mean, I think maybe it was that we were just... I think it got overly complicated, and then we liked the cap versus cap better. And then there was a bit... There's a cat remember where... But also, I think there we also

deferred to... The storyline between Thor and his mother was so resonant. that we really wanted to run. That was really more a part of Thor's journey and repair than confronting his former self. Right. So that's really what happened there

while we flowed with that. Some rumors obviously throughout the film that did or didn't pan out. Captain Langford, what's the bottom, what happened there? Was she ever, was she going to be Cassie at some point? No, she wasn't going to be. Well, what was that?

There was an idea that we had. Yeah. that Tony was going to go into the metaphysical way station that Thanos goes into. Remember where Thanos saw his daughter? Yes. When he snapped his fingers and that there was going to be a future version

of his daughter in that way station. That's Morgan grown up about it. Exactly. We showed it to a test audience and it was really confusing. What we realized about it was we didn't have, we didn't feel an emotional association

with the adult version of his daughter right so we just it wasn't ringing to us and resonating with us on emotional level which is why we moved

away from it so you shot it just did it yeah I mean the attention was that his future daughter because these

as stones we're dealing with so it was magic and his future daughter forgave him and sort of gave him

peace to go and the idea felt resonant, but it's just too many ideas in an overly complicated movie. Speaking of too many things, you can't bring back every kind of bit player. There are obviously a bunch of

surprises. Some that were rumored or some that people were wondering about making appearances. Quicksilver Justin Hammer were either of those ever in the mix? No. No. Just didn't work in the story you were concerned. And it was also just, you know, our struggle on this movie was just to deal with there was so much on the table. You know what? It's just like

we were always petrified of not doing service to like the stuff that was more central to the to the to the narrative you know so we that was really really what we had to focus on at the end of the day do we have a name for the final battle what do we what are generations to come going to call that final battle this is a good question i don't think we ever had an internal name for it the battle the battle for enough. I'm just trying to get it for the history books, get it right. The throwdown on the Hudson, maybe. Okay, fair enough. Battle for the gauntlet. Markis and McPhili have said that there was more to that battle, that there was some more beats to it. Is there any stuff that you missed about cutting from that final?

There's always more beats to the battle. Battles traditionally at this scale tend to be bloated, and then we try to pull them down to their essential elements. Sometimes when you get in the edit room, start playing around with it. the structure doesn't sustain or you find a better structure and a better path through it

and some beats you think are going to work don't work quite as well as others and then there's sort of battle fatigue so right we had a lot of people on that battlefield there were other including Howard the Duck of Power there were other beats I think there was

like a rocket and Groot reunion moment there might have been a Ant Man in the Wasp reunion moment but it just started to feel like an endless series of reunions where you know there are future movies coming and those moments

can be had. It also speaks to a different time. The level of the quality of your actors where like so many of them can do so much in like such brief moments. Like I would submit that Benedict Cumberbatch does more in like his three minutes in this film. The most actors are capable of in 120. Absolutely. It's a great

observation. I mean he is amazing. I mean he holds the screen like he knows what his intention is. He brings a spirituality to the that to that fight and a predestiny to it just in his the performance well it's also great i mean i i you know the fact that he is when he does show up he has a central relationship to the to the to the to the end point of the movie and tony knows it right you know and i think the audience knows it and it's it's so i think that also gives him a little power there you know as well yeah what

what um is there a scene that you can pinpoint that changed the most throughout scripting through shootings a scene that you shot a couple times that you just wasn't you had to tweak or I think it would be the final battle I think you know there might be something in terms of what just it was so complex there were so many characters there

we really you know to what we were just speaking about you know we had to just experiment with so many different ideas about what was going to happen on that battlefield and we did try a few of them and it just took us a long time that was and Vormier I mean there was

another version of Vormier that involved Phanos' troops showing up and then Black Widow having to run the gauntlet and getting a shot as she runs the gauntlet to leap off the cliff. And it, again, it just

felt like it was distracting from the what was the most powerful about the scene, which is two friends. Yeah. One of them having to die. One of them having to die and then literally fighting each other to be the one who dies.

And that just seemed like a more emotional and on-story execution of it. And we ended up scrapping the more complicated version of Warmer. So much conjecture over the last few years about if and when Chris hands over the shield, cap, hands over the shield, who goes to. Were there debates internally about was it a no-brainer that just thematically made sense that it had to be? It made sense that it was Sam. I don't think that there were significant debates at all. I mean, Bucky, as portrayed in the film as in the films is very damaged, you know,

and not necessarily the guy that you would want to trust with another weapon because he can always be corrupted. And, you know, Sam, if anyone matches Caps' integrity over the course of the last few films at Sam, from the time that they met on the mall, in D.C. through the end of this film. And he just seemed like the logical choice in the Marvel Cinematic Universe. We don't have all the context that the comics have.

Right. We can only tell the stories that, or bring completion of the stories that we've been telling, and that seemed to make the most sense. As guys that obviously are most closely associated with that grouping with those characters, you must be just curious now, sort of where that heads as you kind of hand the baton,

particularly for those characters to see what the series for Disney Plus is going to be like, are you involved at all in terms of what they are doing? No, we're so focused on finishing this and they've been working on those while we've been working on this movie and this is Herculian.

You have to understand too, like it was an enormous creative upside for Joe and I, for the first time since we've joined the MCU to not be thinking about the future. Right. You know, just to be thinking about this movie as a completion, as an ending and with no thought whatsoever to where you

go from here. That was amazing, you know, because it was very hard to bring, to bring this narrative to a conclusion. So, you know, our focus was simply backwards. The journey that everybody's been on up to this moment in time and how do we, how do we provide the most exciting, satisfying conclusion to that. And Kevin was really awesome. Kevin Feige. Oh, so many things I love and respect about Kevin, but, you know, the fact that he gave us that freedom to not think about looking forward was it was an amazing thing. And I think the movie is better for it. I'm curious to also, like, in practice, how that works.

Because everything you said is absolutely true. But at the same time, what you've done clearly affects, like, a lot of these franchises going forward. Guardians 3 is going to be a lot different because of the events that have happened here. That's the fun of handing off the baton, right? And again, I just want I'm curious, though, it's like, so is this gun weigh in on what you're doing? No, no, because here's why. And again, this is something we learned that from the moment we joined the MCU, and it's one of the main reasons why we've stayed so long

is Kevin has this amazing process and this attitude of one movie at a time. And it is the key. One of the cornerstones of his success with that series is that he wants every single movie to become whatever it wants to become and to have the freedom to become whatever it wants to become without being saddled with having to hit a mark for this

or that or to the other, because that's the way you crush it, impression narrative. You're like, the second you start looking at one movie and going, oh, this movie has to do this because two moves down the chest board, we're going to do that. Like, that's where you totally tear a story. That's what a movie falls apart. Even if it narratively

put somebody in a corner, luckily you've got someone like James Gunn who's pretty good at getting out of that corner. Exactly. And by the way, we all appreciate to an extent being handed complicated scenarios because it provides for more interesting stories. Have you read his script

for Volume 3? We have no. no again like was the nice thing was we just focused on this movie yeah because remember for six years prior seven yeah we were finishing one film while breaking the next film right going on a press tour releasing the movie getting right back in the writer's room and going right into prep and then shooting and then posting and while we were posting breaking the next film and you know so it was nice, and this movie was so hard at the end that it was so nice to not have to be working on two things at the same time.

Some people have detected what seemed to be potentially some references to other characters. Is there a Namor reference in there when O'Coye is talking about what's going on? Maybe. Some people may interpret it that way. For the record, Joe smiled as he said, maybe. Could just be an earthquake.

Yeah. What about Captain Britton? potentially Peggy talking about a character in Braddock Yeah, I think we Maybe or maybe it's just a guy named Braddock That doesn't seem as interesting though I mean again you guys are the pros

You were obviously very reluctant when we talked in the past About what the major film influences templates were I mean in a way there's no templates What you've done here is kind of redefined what a movie can be in some ways Which is quite a feat 100 years into filmmaking but that being said facts of the future has to be somewhat on your mind in some moments

are there other other references reference points at all that came to mind the odd thing about this movie is we were really because it was the the job for this movie the goal for this movie was to bring the entire MCU to a moment of conclusion

all we looked at was the previous 21 movies believe it or not and that that was it we were we were completely fed by and focused on those films. And that was really, we didn't have another reference outside of that. I mean, certainly back to the future came into the equation simply on a time travel question because it looms so large in the collective consciousness

for what time travel is and what our experience of it is. So we had to address that film. But that was more on a sort of intellectual level than on a sort of stylistic level. But what about even like when I saw, arguably my favorite scene in the film is Tony and Howard Stark. is just like, again, I want to start the Downey Jr. Oscar campaign right now. 100% as do we. Sign us up.

No, truly. He reminds you, not that we needed reminding, like, what an actor he is. But that had shades of facts of the future a little bit, no? That's just something that's a coincidental. Yeah, I think, well, without question, I mean, any time you're in the past and you run into either yourself or family, you're going to get some references to Back to the Future. But I think the movie is, frankly, we look back at all of our work. It's probably most representative in one film of all of the different sandboxes we've played in over the last 25 years, from comedy to drama and, you know, intimate character story to big spectacle.

It sort of combines all of it, and I think that was really our focus. I think so. And you're right. There certainly is a connection there, but it wasn't explicit on our part. Got it. Okay. In a remaining few minutes, let's do some as rapid-fireish as you can do. Second choice for the name besides Endgame, there must have been

well, it was Gauntlet, Infinity Gauntlet for a long time. When we, sorry, this is not too rapid fire, but when we went to Korea to promote this movie, the representatives from Disney there came up to us and said, there's something we need to tell you. In

in the translation of Infinity War here in Korea when Dr. Strange says to Tony, we're in the end game now, the way we translated that here was No Hope. So we're like, oh, so I guess, so in Korea is this movie called Avengers No Hope? Because it's depressing, geez.

But Infinity Gauntlet was the title for quite a long time, actually. ever any conversation about splitting this film into two we used to joke about it all the time because Alan Horn at Disney had done the Lord of the Rings overseen Lord of the Rings and he used to joke about all the time with us for we'd be like

three hour movie just cut it now you guys have enough here for you joking I bet he wouldn't have been too disappointed you're like hey we figured it out I don't know that it would have achieved this kind of success that we split it up but you know Evans as well as anybody think he's ever playing this character again? No, I think, you know, Chris,

Chris's a very emotional person. I think that that's not maybe it's evident if you follow him on Twitter because he does put his heart into what he says. But I feel like he has to close the door on things and be, and emotionally

move on to the next thing. And I think for now he's... There are no plans. He's emotionally moved on, yes. You've created a fascinating five-year gap in MCU history that I'm sure some people will explore in some ways. What's the story that you just now as fans want to see. Do you want to see what Hulk was up to, Ronan? Do you want to know about Joe's love life the last five years? What's been going on? I think it's, I think what's going to be really compelling and what's really brave about this

and Kevin was really encouraging is there's no reset, right? So think about this. People have moved on. People have had kids. People have married other people. You know, it complicates the entire universe. And that makes for really rich storytelling because you're in a place you could never possibly imagine and a place that I can't think of any other movie starting from. So he's speaking about the fact of like, you know, what happens when these people who have been missing for five years re-show up and their loved ones have moved on. So there may be a Marvel movie called Give Me Back My House coming. No, but again, like even going back to, you of these franchises like couglor can't ignore these events like that's no i mean but i think it

look if it if it were us on the other end of it you'd be really excited because it puts you in a really unique idea you know like weird ideas are good you've got a nice little teaser for the potential uh of a female MCU 100% yeah you think that's inevitable that we're going to see something like i would i would hope so i think that one of the things we're most proud of about marvel moving forward is as how diverse it's becoming yeah is there any a lot of people have been talking about sort of fan service in this film and I'm sure that's something you were kind of like conscious of it's like what's the line between

fan service and disruption I don't know that we ever try to I mean look we're just looking for great storytelling moments and you know of course it's called fan service because there's 21 movies behind it and you know the only way to you know truly enjoy all these films is to be a fan of them

and to follow all 21 of them into the 22nd movies so there are payoff moments for sure but we don't ever intentionally say oh the fans are going to love this we're like you're like I'm going to love this we're like exactly it's always

based on how we feel about it and then finally what kind of monster puts mayonnaise on there who in your life does this what kind of I know you know it takes all types it takes all types

you're not naming names here but someone in the Russo's family it might have been an ad lib on set I was like Harkas and McPhilly did that was an ad lib I mean It's the biggest fantasy in the MCU thus far is that someone does this. Now we have to figure out if it's Marcus or McPhilly

who puts mayonnaise on that time. I'm really curious now to run this one down. We've got to figure that out. We'll get to the bottom of it. That'll be the next forward podcast, just about that one question. Gentlemen, congratulations. Get some well-earned rest.

And thanks, as always, for the conversation, man. Thank you. Thanks for seeing now. So I appreciate it. We did it. Nice, guys. Awesome. That was great.

And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't pressure to do this by Josh. American history is full of infamous tales that continue to count. American history is full of infamous tales that continue to count. captivate audiences decades or even hundreds of years after they happened. On the infamous America

podcast, you'll hear the true stories of the Salem Witch Trials and the escape attempts from Alcatraz, of bank robbers like John Dillinger and Pretty Boy Floyd, of killers like Lizzie Borden and Charles Starkweather, of mysteries like the Black Dahlia and D.B. Cooper, and of events that inspired movies like Goodfellas, Killers of the Flower Moon, Zodiac, Eight Men Out, and many more. I'm Chris Wimmer. Join me as we crisscrossed the country from the Miami Drug Wars and Dixie Mafia in the South, to mobsters in Chicago and New York, to arsonists, kidnappers, and killers in California, to unsolved mysteries in the heartland and in remote corners of Alaska. Every episode features narrative writing and cinematic music, and there are hundreds of episodes available to binge.

Find Infamous America, wherever you get your podcasts.