Happy Sad Confused - Ben Affleck

Episode Date: October 12, 2026

Where to even begin with Ben Affleck? In a true career-spanning conversation, Ben and Josh dive deep on his latest film ANIMALS, how feeling on the verge of extinction led to him directing, why JUSTICE LEAGUE was a low point in his career, and why he still defends GIGLI. Plus, a story about the actor that rejected GOOD WILL HUNTING, the truth about that GONE GIRL hat incident, why Ben would reprise his role as DAREDEVIL, & more! SUPPORT THE SHOW BY SUPPORTING OUR SPONSORS! Rula -- Rula patients typically pay $15 per session when using insurance. Connect with quality therapists and mental health experts who specialize in you at https://www.rula.com/happy #rulapod Quince -- Go to ⁠Quince.com/HAPPYSAD ⁠for free shipping and 365-day returns. Limited Time Offer–Get Huel today with my exclusive offer of 15% OFF online with my code happy15 at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://huel.com/happy15.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ New Customers Only. Thank you to Huel for partnering and supporting our show! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The 2006 Chevrolet Equinox, awarded the most dependable compact SUV in the U.S. by J.D. Power. is designed for your every day. And with available all-wheel drive, you can handle your to-do list with total confidence. Start your build at Chevrolet.ca. Details at J.D.Power.com. For 50 years, Canadians have wondered what the names of IKEA furniture mean. Like Natopa, the guardrail for children's beds. Natopa means giving your favorite person room to grow. It means their safety and your piece of...

No. In Swedish, not Opa means night monkey. Mom, he's back. IKEA, 50 years of Swedishness at home. Look, he's wearing little pajamas. So cute. Is there something about the Batman's suit that like the low pitch, the growl comes? I mean, you have a deep voice anyway. But like every Batman has to do the, I'm Batman.

Like that you can't help it. Is that just go with the territory? Because if you're like, I'm Batman. It just seems farcical, right? Like, that's not... I'm going to watch you bleed. I'm going to watch you bleed. And I'm Batman.

Get away from me. I'm Batman. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now. Hey, guys, it's Josh. Welcome to Happy, Say I Confused. Today on the show, Ben Affleck is here. One of the greats, a legend, a writer, a director, an Oscar winner.

He's Batman, for God's sakes, and he has a new movie, Animals. We talk about all of it and much, much more. one of my favorite episodes, maybe of all time. I don't want to hype it up too much, guys, but this is a banger of an episode of Happy Say I Confused. Ben Affleck has been on the list for many years, and while I talked to him at the Junkets and all that kind of stuff over the years, never did the deep dive with him,

and spent nearly an hour with Ben just the other day talking about his directing career, his new film is Animals. It's on Netflix, check it out. It's him and Kerry Washington, Stephen Young. But also so much more. This guy has all the stories, and he's such a great candid conversationalist. We talk Goodwill Hunting.

We talk Batman. We talk Gone Girl. We talk about being offered a Star Wars movie about nearly directing the Batman movie. There's tons and tons in this. He really lived up to everything I was hoping and more. I know you guys are going to dig this. I'm so happy. It finally happened.

Ben Affleck on Happy, Sad, Confused. Before we get to the main event, though, quick reminder, as I always, check out our Patreon. For bonus content, for early access to our live events, all sorts of cool stuff. Patreon.com slash happy, sad, confused. Supporting us over there helps us make more stuff over here. Okay. Here we go, guys. No further ado. He speaks for himself, and he says a lot in this one. Enjoy my conversation with the one and only. And by the way, this was his last conversation of his press tour, so he let it all hang out. So thrilled it happened. Here's me and Ben Affleck. Enjoy. Ben, you're doing the podcast. I am. What a pleasure. You're locked in the room. You can't get

out for the next 45 minutes. I am sorry. Here now. Yeah, I know. I know. And you know what? It doesn't even alarm me. That's how good you're doing. It's how good my life is. This is flying in the face of sad Affleck. This is no longer. He's happy Affleck. Sad Affleck, you know, nothing shows up all the time. Unfortunately, it's my, I feel like any, my kids are obsessed with, like, taking my picture and trying to find the funniest sticker to make out of it, the worst, the worst looking possible picture. But it's, what it's taught me is that I, that I think my sort of, general demeanor appears to be your resting resting bent face is what a sting resting bed face seems

seems to be beleaguered or something or maybe i just i don't know it's that thing of um you get a second you kind of oh maybe my resting face does it should be no surprise the resting face we'll come back around to that let's talk animals and this great i mean this is literally the end of your press store by the way congratulations you've survived another one thank you very much it's you know what they've gotten uh to be much more interesting experiences because of phenomena because of the preponderance importance and an audience of a podcast principally and some other kinds of more you know creative sort of like social media shows and stuff but like so that what used to be you know four days of you

know 50 consecutive five-minute interviews repeat the exact same thing which was a particular kind of hell is a very sort of who wrote no exit was it You know, like very hellish sort of thing. Now you actually move around a little bit and you have longer conversations like I was saying where you have some context and you have the ability to talk. It's such an interesting thing. Like I was talking to somebody the day and they were saying like, what do you think it means that we've gone, you know, in one direction that there's like much shorter attention span.

Right. The vine seven second thing. Exactly. To this like, you know, a lot much more long form thing. And it was sort of obviously you have. different size audience. Like so you're not, there is no more, oh, 30 million, 40 million people watch Carson or something. Right, right, right. But you do have like your dedicated millions of people that are listening to, you know, various podcasts and actually finding the time for, you know, something that's

more in depth. Well, and they're hopefully the hardcore folks. If they're investing 45 minutes or an hour in your conversation with me, that means they're, they're more likely to check out animals and be invested in what you do. Yeah. If I can't make it sound interesting in 45 minutes, maybe it's not for you. So this has been a very happy, good press tour. What was the hardest press tour you've ever had to indoor in your career, whether because of where you were, because of the film, you had to kind of suck it up and promote. What you said? I remember that the press tour for, I did a movie called Surviving Christmas. The press tour for that was really unpleasant. Mostly because the studio had totally abandoned it and everybody knew it was a bomb and it was kind of like,

you just feel like you have to walk the plank. I'm like, hey, if you guys are going to pull all the ads, do I still have to go through with every single person who sits down and says, interesting movie. So you're in a real hole. It's like, how is this helping anybody? I've had a few of those. It's nice, also that's different when you direct a movie. You know, it's like, if you can't find stuff to talk about, I mean, that really is the standard for me to, for choosing something to direct.

You may act in something. You do eight, ten weeks at the most these days, 12, maybe. and there's a lot that you can find interesting within a role for the period of time but for directing it's it's a year plus commitment of work and then you know there's the expectation naturally like if the director's not going to promote them you know you're going to you'll do anything

to promote movie you direct and or not anything but you will do quite a bit of quite a few interviews and and you know ostensibly it's because the movie has themes that you find really interesting and compelling and that are merit you know discussing to some extent Well, and connecting that to animals, this is your latest directing, and you're starring in it.

I mean, what I find interesting about this is, I feel like you're, like, luring them in with the kidnapping, like, oh, it's, you know, it's a crime drama. It's, it's the town. And like underneath it all,

it's like a, like a Cassavetti's, like, dissection of a marriage, essentially. Yeah, are you attracted. The town was the same thing. You know what I mean? All in the movies that I've made, I viewed from even going back to Goodwill Hunting, you know, that I've written or that I've kind of created,

I, I've consciously, thought, well, you've got to like make, give the entrance some, the audience, rather, some entrance, some reason to see the movie. And part of that is like some genre expectation. Right. Because you might, okay, you know, there's a shorthand around, I like a movie where, you know, there's kidnapping or horror movies or romantic comedies or whatever they are, because people do kind of have a sense of what the expectations are. And those conventions are quite useful in the sense that, you know, they're the guardrails that tell you whether, you know, whether you're hewing to the conventions or you're subverting the conventions.

It's a common language with the audience they can understand. And this notion that there's a bifurcation or a separation or a difference between movies of a genre and movies which are art movies or serious movies or interesting movies, I think is a real false dichotomy ostensibly. You know, I think it was T.S. Eliot who said something like the plot of a play is just the meat that you throw the guard dogs while the playwright, you know, know, is the cat burglar that breaks into the subconscious of the house, right? Like, right, right, right.

And I really think that's true. You, there needs to be a what's going to happen next urgency. Yeah. Just because, you know, as Brando said, like an actor's only responsibility is not to bore the audience. You've got to engage and be mindful of the audience, but you don't have to pander. In fact, I think what you have to do is surprise the audience, right? Like somebody said, the ending has to be inevitable and surprising.

And then, while you've got the front brain worrying about, gosh what's going to happen next and who's going to do what they may not be saying gosh they may be saying something but they the front the the subconscious is like experiencing you know the stuff that is is thematically interesting in this case as you mentioned one of the themes is kind of what's what constitutes a marriage you know how vulnerable are we and and in particular this question of like or this this this this sort of proposition that you know it's it's somewhat counterintuitive since you want the person to fall in love with you, to show a person that you love the aspects of yourself

which you don't particularly like or which they may not find appealing. However, what's really interesting to me is like, is that sort of the ideal, like you could really be loved in a different way if somebody, if you felt loved for all of that stuff. All the ugliness and yeah. Yeah, and it's a really profound rejection to be rejected, you know, for your sort of your true truest self.

And so one of the things I thought was really interesting about this movie was this is a married couple that does get to the point, if only because they kind of think their marriage is more or less over and they think they have nothing to lose, where they both go, you know what, fuck it, this is who I am. And you know what? And the other one sort of does the same thing. And what I like about it, I don't exactly, you know, lay it out.

But I think what's suggested there is that they actually have a very interesting, I mean, giving it away, but I think they actually find a kind of a marriage that really works for them. Right. Right. Can we take a step back and look at the directing career? Because it strikes me, it's been basically 20 years, 20 years ago probably to almost do a date that you stepped on the set of Gone Baby Gone and launched this career as a filmmaker, six films in. First, like, where were you at? Like, if I'm doing the math of, like, your career at that time, I guess, like, Hollywoodland had happened was coming out that year.

But you were kind of like bouncing back. You were kind of reinventing. Oh, I was, I think I was on the verge of extinction. Was what was directing the way back in for you to kind of reinvent at the time? Yeah. I mean, yes. And it was something that I wanted to do. But because of the nature of, you know, the sort of hand to mouth,

desperate nature of the psychology of being an actor. And I was just incapable of saying no to anything. So then I'm taking a job, taking a movie. Well, I don't have time to be. be a director, right? And this is, and this is a, this is why I think Matt has not, Matt Damon has not directed simply because he's been so consistently presented with opportunities to work with great directors as an actor. And he's never had this kind of space. Like an 18 month to like over two years to say, yeah. But I also, for me, it was, you know, it was, I mean, surviving

Christmas, like, I mentioned before. Like, it was pretty much a rap. I don't, I don't think I was going to be able to work. I was so uncool. and so unsought after and so kind of, in fact, at one point I went back and looked at some of the press, like around and about me from like 2003, 2004, it was like so virile, nasty. Well, they tore you down. They propped you up.

They, they, as we well know. But in a way now that even now would be viewed as irresponsible. Like one of the real examples of, I don't know if it was the same time, but it was roughly the same time was like the way Britney Spears was treated. Yes. During what was obviously like an episode

of tremendous trauma and mental health, issues and there there was this sort of gleeful celebration and uh kind of hideous shodden cultural collective schadenfreude at at at what was going on with her and i experienced something kind of similar which was like i mean there were people who were saying like you know i can't mean literally like well one hopes ben afflick is dead soon you know stuff like that yeah and you think like now people at least would recognize it wouldn't be you know that would be called bullying or something you know along those lines but It's true that at the end of the day, you know, if you do a bunch of work that isn't good,

you know, you may not have to expect the people cheer your death, but you know, you're not going to work. And so part of the condition really, whether it was explicitly stated or not for me to direct a movie was that, hey, or one of the selling points was I'm not in it, you know. That was a plus. Truly. Like I remember thinking I don't even want my credit to sort of be. eye catching because I don't want people to have a negative connotation.

I mean, it's one thing to be unknown. It's another thing to be like, no, we know who you are. We just don't like it. It's like harder. As a society's decided. And even the reviews for that movie were like, I remember one that was like, well, now I know what my hat tastes like. It was kind of, and it wasn't even a rave.

It was just like, fine, this isn't the worst piece of shit you've ever seen. Because it's like, it's a little bit like the high school bullying thing. people who hadn't even seen movies that were supposed to be. Like you see it happening now, frankly, with Digger. Everybody wants to celebrate this bomb as if, like, it's the most exciting thing that happened. And you think, like, it's a pretty ambitious, interesting movie made by interesting people that have talent.

And, you know, everybody wants to count the money, what it may loss or whatever. And to me, I just think, like, if you punish movies that take risks, guess what you're going to get, a bunch of shitty homogenized movies. Vanilla doubles as opposed to them. Because if you. cannot do something interesting without taking a big swing. And that means you're going to sometimes look bad. So yeah, for me, it was, I'm not going to be in it.

And I got lucky because Miramax had been pried away from the Weinstein brothers at the time. I guess they went on to do the Weinstein company, but Disney had gotten rid of them. And they didn't have anybody kind of at Disney. Unfortunately, I had pretty good relationships like, because I always been a pretty good team player and agreeable and that sort of thing. And this guy named Dick Cook who was running Disney at the time and we had a good relationship

from Pearl Harbor is another movie that people sort of cheered. It was supposed to be a bomb because of a very successful movie. But, you know, and Dick was willing to, you know, give me a chance

because they just didn't have any Miramax movies or at the time they didn't even have any executives. And they gave me, you know, a low budget to make a movie and let me do it. and, you know, I kind of, it was just successful enough. Ironically, that came out at a period of time, I think the year of the most theatrical releases in history.

Like, as I remember, we were in sixth place that weekend, and we were ahead of a movie with Merrill Streep and we Reese Witherspoon. You know, it was like that competitive every weekend. And, you know, I kind of got to live to fight another day, but I was keenly aware of the fact that if that movie didn't work, You know, it was really likely that, you know, I may have to find another line of work. And that was really scary.

More happy say I confused coming up. You've got your favorite blanket, a freshly poured drink, and a cold case burning a hole in your streaming queue. You're not just watching true crime. You're running the investigation from the comfort of your couch. Welcome to Murder She Watched. The podcast where we recap, dissect, and slightly overanalyze some of the best and craziest true crime documentaries on our favorite streamers. Did the spouse do it?

Why is the shady neighbor wearing leather gloves in July? Why did this guy agree to be interviewed in this documentary? We ask the tough questions that you're often just screaming at your TV. So every week, we break down the twists, red herrings, and absurd documentaries that have kept you up all night. It's high drama, cozy vibes, and absolute couch detective energy. Grab your throat blanket and hit subscribe. Search Murder She Watched wherever you listen to podcasts,

and let's solve this thing together. From the parents behind law and order comes a mystery the whole family can enjoy. Patrick Pickle Bottom Everyday Mysteries. Step into the whimsical world of Patrick Picklebottom, a precocious 11-year-old with a love for reading and an uncanny ability to solve mysteries. Inspired by the beloved children's book of the same name, this podcast vividly brings Patrick's tales of deduction and everyday adventures to life as he unravels baffling enigmas and solves clever cases.

Patrick Pickle Bottom Everyday Mysteries is perfect for kids and is just as entertaining for grown-ups who love a good mystery. The whole family can listen now wherever you get your podcasts. And even though that one, you know, didn't make whatever a gazillion dollars, it got the critical reception, it earned you the right to make the town, which ended up being a critical and commercial success. And that really set you off on the path of like where we are today. But if both either of those movies hadn't worked,

I don't think we'd be having this conversation. Yeah. Surviving Christmas DVD, spectacular reunion. Surviving Christmas. Yeah. Surviving Christmas. Paycheck. Surviving Christmas.

Gilly, which is another, that was one that everybody, similar to, probably more than a perfect storm of it. It was like, yeah. And also,

by the way, like a movie that didn't work, but not like the worst. Not the worst. Not the worst. In fact, All the people that mocked and derided it, I think very few actually saw it. Right.

It was a function of like we're so over, we're so exhausted by and overexposed by this Ben Affleck, Jennifer Lopez phenomenon, which itself was a function of being a tabloid story at a time when the tabloids really recognized they were, they had a much wider audience than they realized. And so there was this huge proliferation of these magazines. And so it seemed as if, you know, we were shoving ourselves down everyone's throats and we were wildly overexposed. So it was a lot of negative factors at work. I'm just upset still that Martin Brest basically was run out of filmmaking.

Like he has not made a film since he was a young man. He's still around. Like he could. That was a real, that was a real shame and a crime. Marty is a really good director. In fact, I probably learned how to direct from him. And, you know, you look at Beverly Hills cop or Midnight Run. My Run's a perfect movie.

I mean, he's made so, it's sent to a little. and he was he is such a good director and i'm not sure why i think he would have had the opportunity to do some stuff uh had he been willing to like after that do something kind of like crummy and ordinary but i got the sense that he just wasn't interested in doing that yeah um but yeah was and i i i feel in some ways you know partly responsible for that i feel about i mean look that itself was a risky a movie not a particularly expensive movie but a risky one and and one that ended up really falling flat because kind of loudly. And that was just like, yeah, it was a shame. We lost on the, I think the really

interesting movies that Marty might have made subsequent to that. Can I ask you, I'm always fascinated by sort of like the what ifs, the projects that came and went. And there's some directing opportunities that seemingly you had that just didn't work out. Did you go up for Man of Steel? What became Man of Steel? Did you meet with Chris Nolan and the team about potentially directing Superman? No, I did not meet with them about that. I did, I was concerned. considering at a time directing a standalone Batman movie after that and did not feel like ultimately I wanted to do that. But no, I didn't, I didn't. And there haven't been too many movies that I turned down, whether as an actor or a director that I thought like, oh, that's a shame. There

been some that have been successful. So I'm very successful. But I, particularly as a director, I just think like, it's just somebody else is better for this, you know. Correct me if I'm wrong, though. Didn't you come close to Star Wars? Wasn't Force Awakens like an opportunity that? Yeah, they came to me and asked me and, hey, are you interested in this? And I don't know that that meant they weren't also like talking to JJ or other people. But I talked to those folks at the time. And that was one where I just was like, again, I thought like, hey, I like Star Wars and I'm a fan, but I'm not the person to direct this movie.

I just think someone else who has more passion for this and is going to do a better job. And that's not like some great self-sacrificing thing because I thought like, I don't know that I can make a great version of Star Wars or reinvent this. A lot of challenges to reinventing that. In fact, that you've seen played out. It hasn't been easy for them to reinvent that franchise. Some have done really well.

Some. And you've got this whole fan base that's got its own very strong opinions. And, yeah, it just was one that, like plenty of scripts that I've gotten as a director. I've certainly got better scripts as a director than as an actor that I've turned down. But I just thought, like, you know what?

this would be, I don't think I can do it as well as somebody else and I don't want to direct something that I don't feel like I have a chance to be really, really proud of. I have had conversations over the years with a couple of the people that you almost worked with on the Batman film, Joe Mangonella, who was going to be Deathstroke, Bob Richardson, who was going to be your DP. I mean, that's an exciting prospect. Everything he does is remarkable. And I've heard, like, Joe tell me in others, like he compared it to the game in some respects. And Bob told me a lot of it was in Arkham. Is there anything about that that you did love that like you that's lots.

And I like playing that character, particularly this sort of older, broken, very much derived from, wholly derived from Frank Miller's, you know, book. That's what we were trying to do with that Batman or Superman. But, you know, the truth is that the experience of Justice League for me was so, so negative for lots of different reasons, some of which I have been to do just with where I was personally. some of which having to do with some of the tragedy that happened during that time. And also the fact that I really saw how not to make a movie like that, which is when the studio is at odds with the filmmaker,

you know, you're starting at the worst possible. You're really making a mistake. And, you know, that was what really doomed that. I was really glad and gratified that Zach got to release. And he did in a very kind of canny way, manipulated his way into getting his thing released, which was fucking great. great and I was really happy for him. Boy, that was shitty that him, him, him, him being taken

off that movie and, and the reshoot that we did. That's, that was the low, if you want, the low point of my career was that. So that was, I mean, you know, you bring it up like, that was seeming like a perfect storm of horrible things happening. What was going on with Zach Needless to say was a horrible personal tragedy. You were going through it personally and professionally. And, and, and this film is like kind of collapsing in front of you. Like, did you kind of have any kind of a moment of epiphany on that on that set about personal or professional yeah i mean look the personal thing you know somebody's uh death by suicide is that that that eclipses everything and and the and then the way in which that was i thought frankly used as an excuse i just thought it was one of

the shittiest things i'd ever seen you know and it it was so gross And then the whole environment and vibe, much of which I wasn't privy to, but that I sort of heard about secondhand in terms of Ray and Gow and other people's experiences. It was just like, wow, this is about as gross as it gets. And I think it really, and I was drinking too much. You know, that's when I started to feel like, boy, I'd like to quit drinking. And I'm having a hard time not drinking. I'm coming up with a re.

I'm just going to do this. I'm just going to do that. And I got divorced. I mean, you know, it was definitely like a very difficult time for me personally. But I can imagine, you know, having gone through and dealt with those things while painful were not what impacted that movie. I mean, they just happened to be happening at the same time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The, if you'll indulge me going back even outside of the directing career on the acting side,

because, you know, I've talked to Matt a bunch on the podcast over the years and he's talked about going up for primal fear and all. all the roles that he wanted way back when. I don't really know about like your story with like the auditions that you were going up for. Were you going up for the same stuff as Matt in that time? Those are the group of guys. You know, this was a time when, I don't know, you kind of knew all the other guys who were going up for stuff and, and, you know, because you'd see who would get the part and you'd see them in the rooms, you know, I was holding our sides and you kind of knew who they were

and sometimes you'd work with them. Like who was the guy? Who was the guy that was taking all your parts? Well, the guy I looked up to. you know, was River Phoenix. He was the guy I thought like, boy, he's the best young actor around. I still think that about him. It's such a tragedy rap of that guy.

And, you know, Leo showed up around that time, and he's a, he is a mighty talent and has obviously proven that out over the years. And then there, you know, then, of course, yeah, you had Edward and Matt. And there was, there were guys that, you know, the Brennan Fraser and Chris O'Donnell. And then, you know, all the actors that I, so many actors that I, so many actors that I, knew and hung out with who were friends, like Matthew or Vince or, you know, Fabro and, you know, and you had like, gosh, I mean, you look sort of the cast of like school ties, days, you know, um, were you competitive with those guys or was it sort of like everyone's going

to get their time. It's going to come. You know, to be honest, like a lot of young actors, I think, I think a lot of actors feel competitive. I'm really lucky. I think my friendship with Matt and the fact that, I don't know, this, maybe the fact that my mom always sort of instilled in my brother and I a sense of like, you know, your own fate has to do with you. There's not, it's not a zero-sum game, you know, kind of a thing. I felt like at the end of the day, like, you know, someone else's success isn't taken away from me. And that's, I'm lucky.

It's not some great virtue of mine. It's that I was lucky because it made me feel a little bit more sane. I didn't spend my time looking at movies and going, why the fuck is this guy getting this? Which can happen to people. and I felt just I kind of had a sense like I was getting cast I was bigger

physically and heavier and kind of every time I went in for the lead I'd always get called back for the guy the guy who slams kids into their locker and so I was doing a lot of those parts

and that was my frustration and so I Kevin Smith really was the person who really cast me in a lead role that wasn't you know literally throwing someone into their locker and chasing Amy. And so, you know, that was really meaningful.

But also, you know, I was pretty aware that like, you know, you probably had to make it happen for yourself, you know. And going out and kind of like this was the time where, you know, filmmakers like Rick Linklitter who had done Slacker or Kevin who had done clerks or Spike who years earlier had done do the right thing or Quentin who did Reservoir. who did Reservoir Dogs. Like that was maybe not the first time, I guess, because you had Casabettys and people like that,

but it was a resurgence or an emergence of a DIY-D-Y-Y spirit that, you know, Sundance was really probably in its, in its, I think that of it as high point, because that was when all these really cool sex lies and videotape, you know, people were making these movies. And, you know, the million dollars was kind of the number people threw around. I have no idea what they,

what the movies really cost. But the sense was if you could just cobble together, not that that wasn't a lot of money, it certainly felt out of reach for us. Otherwise, we probably would have tried to finance. I mean, in fact, when Matt went down and did a TNT movie with Tommy Lee Jones called The Good Old Boys, I was like, okay, give him our script.

You know, we're going to get him attached. Like, Quentin got Harvey Citell attached. Right, right. And we're going to do, you know, get him on board. And I remember the first night Matt was there in Plano, Texas. or wherever it was. I called him up.

I said, how'd it go? And he was like, I don't think Tommy's going to do our movie. Notorious pushover Tommy Lee Jones. Yeah, I worked with them later. And I was like, yeah, I get hard. Not an easy guy to approach. Yeah.

What is it? What do you want, son? No, I will not read your screenplay. What else? Okay. I still love that famous Batman Forever story. What's the Jim Carrey story where he runs into him? I will not sanction your buffoonery.

Do you remember that story? I don't even, but it doesn't surprise me. I did a scene with Tommy Lee where, and he was great in the scene. It's a movie called Company Men that was, you know, was about the economic crisis and people getting laid off in suicides. It wasn't a great commercial success, but I really liked the movie. John Wells was directed and he was great. Chris Cooper was in and.

I was at Sundance. I think I talked to you at Sundance for that one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I remember Tommy had this speech where he was walking down this pier and he was talking about, you know, what it used to be and and the jobs that had been lost. And it was one of those great speeches. And I had a line. I just was walking along with him staring at him.

And I watched him, but he got halfway through a take. I was like, wow, this is good. You got three quarters away through it. I was like, oh, fuck, Tommy is killing it. We got to the end. And it was a great take, and he knew it. And it didn't cut or anything. He just turned to the director and said,

I think you're going to like your movie. That's amazing. Only Tommy Lee can do that. I was like, I got to use that line. I still haven't used that line to say that. You're welcome, Mr. Fincher. Yeah. You're welcome, David.

Okay. Ball game. Close it out. More happy, say, confused, coming up. The 2026 Chevrolet Tracks is the stylish SUV for those on the move. And with the standard Chevy safety assist package, you have the backup to handle every turn with confidence. The 2026 tracks, start your build at Chevrolet.ca.

From the studio that brought you WandaVision. I was an Avenger, but I'm not a hero anymore. On October 14th, the Vision returns for the final chapter of the groundbreaking trilogy. That family wasn't real. You sure about that? I had a father called Vision. How is this possible?

Don't miss the two-episode premiere of Marvel Television's Vision Quest. Nothing bonds a family together quite like Mortal Jeopardy. Streaming October 14th, only on Disney Plus. One of my favorite Goodwill Hunting Stories is, again, something Matt told me. I love your perspective. When you meet Michael Mann and you guys talk to Michael Mann and he basically, says your script's great, but I think you need to go a different way with the movie and basically wanted to kind of do the Michael Mann version of Goodwill hunting.

Yeah, which like at the time surprises, but now looking at it, I just think, no, like filmmakers, you know, he, he was so thoroughly rooted in and had such an understanding of it, spent so much time researching. I mean, and you look at movies like Heat and you see why, like the LA crime world, you know, and so we came in and did it. He was like, I like the movie. I do like the bitcher, but I have something to show you guys. And we were like, okay, and he showed us a video of like a gang fight in an LA club.

And he was like, this is what's going on. This is how what he's right now. You see what these guys who are doing? And I was like, yeah, I see what they're doing. Seems like a bunch of Latino guys with face tattoos, like in a riot at some club downtown. It doesn't really have a barrier on. But it was just like what he's drawn to. You know what I mean?

And look, Michael's like, you know, he tip. I mean, he's, he's making a heat too now, you know. and it's that script I read it's really fucking good. Did you talk to him about doing heat too? I'd have not. I cannot unfortunately lay claim to, uh, what do you read the script? What's going on?

You know, you get to a place where you just like, no guys and, and I don't want to talk out of school, but I, I, because I'm a fan and I, and I know him and,

um, I want to read it and it's also a book. Uh, I just thought like in, and, you know, I was curious about it and it. And it's really good.

I mean, and I think, you know, I mean, he's, I don't know how Michael has me. Maybe he's 75 years old, you know, like he's, but I think it's, I think it's going to be a terrific movie. I thought Ferrari was pretty good, actually. So, yeah, yeah.

Michael is one of the great. Yeah. Have you had to resist, this might sound silly, but knowing Hollywood, like, have you had to resist the Goodwill hunting sequel? Have they come to you with, like, bags of money and like, come on guys? Not bags of money. They did at one point when Miramax was bought again by somebody and, like, they did say, they did come to us and you wanted to a TV.

show or sequel and it's just an easy no like yeah no i don't i don't know and it just seems like a really and look i get it sometimes you get to a place where it's like like i said i've had the the downturn in the career where you go like shit i don't know what else to do and sometimes you get to that place and you go back to the well and go you know what like let me do this and kind of fire it back up i don't have any any judgment whatsoever i've just lucky enough that i've never had to do it and uh honestly I don't know what the story would be. Yeah, it just one of the nice things about it is that it's kind of contained, you know. And totally.

A couple random ones, Armageddon, did you, what did you make of the animal crackers scene? Did you feel like this is, this is romance to have animal crackers and? You know, you got to remember, this was at a time when, like, true romance had come out and, you know, or, was true, or a crimson tide or whatever. And there was like the Silver Surfer monologue that went road. So there was a kind of notion that like, you know, you wanted the right kind of surprising, iconic. And also I was like, I had just done Goodwill Hunting and screen tested for that movie.

And I certainly wasn't any position to, like, my idea was like, just make it work. If you can make it good, you know, I thought like doing my bad Ozzy bit, you know, where I watched the gazelle was like, you know, that's how I could kind of make it funny. And it's a little silly. I mean, the whole movie's a little silly, but it's got a lot of charm. And it was a lot of fun. And, you know, I got to work with like, I mean, that was a great. It was like Steve Semi and.

Oh, it's a murder. Rose Role of every cool actor. Billy Bob Thornton. I remember Billy Bob. We were doing that, you know, after Goodwell Hunting. And then we went, Billy had won the Oscar for writing the year before. It was Slingblade, which was a movie that we just like, you know, worshipped. And I saw Billy after the Oscars.

And I was like, and I was a party. And he was like, so let me ask you question. did they give you guys like half an Oscar? It was like you both wrote it. Did you get half of one or what? What the fuck they give you guys? You get a fractional Oscar. You know, mine's a whole one, right?

I do got a whole lot. He's a funny fucking guy. He was in that movie like, Michael, I'm just wondering what the fuck we're doing here. I mean, I generally like to be in the kind of movies that makes sense. You know what I mean? But fuck it. Okay, we don't have to do that. We don't have to do that on this one.

Fuck it. We don't have to make any sense. I just thought maybe it would make sense. sense, but I guess not. You're recreating your famous DVD commentary live for me. Thank you. It's amazing. Did I do Billy in the DVD?

I don't know, but in terms of calling it out. What was your favorite direction David Fincher ever gave you? What sticks out? Well, I'll tell you, the first thing I remember is first or second day. We were doing this kind of walk-and-talk scene. And I'd done, I'd heard, oh, David does a lot of takes. And so my thing was like, at that point, I had, learned enough to know, like, you work with a good director, a great director, that's the goal.

And I'm fine with that. If you're great, I'll do the fuck you want to do. I'm with you. I'll go all the way for you. And so my thing was like, I'm never, ever going to be the guy who wants, doesn't want to do another take. I'll go as long as this dude can go and longer. That's kind of my ethos. Like, you know, I start directing anything else. I thought, I don't know that I'm any gift more gifted as any than anyone else at this but i know i can work as hard as anybody and so i took that approach to that movie and i remember we did we had on take 21 david goes first print delete all the previous takes and i was like do he and the motherfucker deleted all the takes prior to 21 and i thought he's not fucking around no he really is gonna this is really how he works

but he doesn't need to say that that's just like that's that's sending a message It is sending a message. He was making a point. But you know what? I love David. Oh. I loved working for him. I really like people.

I have found like whether it was in high school or anywhere else, like the higher standard, you know, somebody held me to, the higher I did. And I loved it. And I loved thinking like, oh, it got addictive. Like, oh, we can just keep chasing excellence as hard as we can. And so it got to be something like that where I just thought, great, maybe we'll just bleed all over the place and go as hard as we can do. And, and we'll get something great. I don't actually now believe that's why David is a good director. I actually have another theory about why he does so many takes, but he'd get bent out of shape if I assured it.

But what's the truth on the Yankee hat story? He says on the commentary, maybe he's embellishing that production shut down for four days. He's such a lying motherfucker. That is such a fucking lie. I don't know why he loves to say shit like that. You just said you love David Fincher. I do love him. And I'm friends him and I adore him.

And he'll fucking lie if he thinks it'll get a reaction. He doesn't, he's got a very sort of dark sense of humor. And I know he thought like, I'll make Ben suffer for this for many years. The truth is, I don't think anyone had ever said like no to him about anything. And he, he with this airport scene and he was like, yeah, I think you're wearing a Yankees set. And I said, ah, I don't think that's a good idea, David. he looked at me like, you know,

why are you talking to me? And I said, I just think like, look, I'm a Red Sox fan. It's just going to be a big distraction. I'm wearing a Yankees. Let's just do something else. And then he decided, no, no, no, no, it has to be Yanks. And I was like, it doesn't, but why?

I mean, they sell hats. And he was like, you know, and it was probably all of 20 minutes that we talked about it. And eventually it was like, what about the Mets? And I was like, all right, sure, men, it's fine. You win. That was it.

And then he's like, yeah, it costs us 40. million dollars while Ben Affleck wouldn't wear the fucking, I didn't take that long arguing over whether they'd be naked in the movie. You know what I mean? Like, uh, I was like, so I'm, I'm what? I'm sorry. What, so hold on. What can we see here? He's like, you're naked. I'm like, but like in what sense. Metaphorically. And then I was just like, oh, fuck it. All right. You know. Um, is there something about the one more Batman question. Is there something about the Batman suit that like the, the low pitch, the growl comes? I mean, you have a deep voice anyway, but like every Batman has to do the, I'm Batman. Like, they're a man. Like,

you can't help it. Is that just go with the territory? Because if you're like, I'm Batman, it just seems farcical, right? Like, that's not, I want to watch you bleed. Yeah. I'm going to watch you bleed.

I'm Batman. Get away from me. I'm Batman. It's just not going to, I remember I did, when I did Armageddon, speaking in Armageddon, Bruce Willis once turned to me,

he's like, man, you got, your voice is too high. He was like, what? He was like, don't have that high voice. I was like, Bruce, it's just my voice. I can't, I don't think, can I change that?

Get surgery to do what you're after to do? don't you don't want to sound like that man i'm helping you out bruce by the way i love bruce he was the sweetest guy in the world and he really was giving me a tip he was also like man don't go don't go do that shakespeare movie man you don't want to do that movie that's like can't be right all the time yeah no he was wrong about that one but he hadn't read the script in all fairness it was that was one where i just didn't want to you know like often their computer modified uh and i thought like well what if it's just that he also i like the idea the guy was, if you'd see the Frank Miller book, I mean, the guy is really old. He's like, I mean,

he's drawn, intimidatingly enough to look like Marlon Brando, but he's, you know, quite gray-haired and older and, and just beat to shit. And so I, I kind of like the idea of him just being, sounding literally, you know, kind of exhausted and, and, and gravelly in that sense. And, and I like the fact that it wasn't, because otherwise it begs the question, you got like the voice modifier in the suit or something like that and I mean maybe I took it too literally you know it's not a criticism I'm just always curious about like what happens in there it just that that was just one of those things where and honestly you'd just feel a little bit more comfortable you got to get into it and then kind of if you don't believe that you're Batman you're

you're really in trouble and it's funny I heard stories about like Tim Burton and Nicholson this famous stories about him saying let the suit do the acting you know you got to it's a it's a lesson actually that I learned from directing just in general, which is as an actor, we're apt to think that we need to do more work than we do. And you've got to know that the movie and the momentum of the film and all the efforts that everyone else is putting in is, you know, you're on a battleship. And it's being powered and it's, you know, manned and everything by the whatever, the nuclear engines and the guns and all that stuff. And you don't have to paddle the ship yourself. In fact, if you do, it looks like you're working too hard. And the worst thing that you can do is, you're

work too hard because all of a sudden the audience is like stop fucking selling me something you know um has kevin foggy tried to get you back as daredevil for something and are you open to it he hasn't i wish you would kevin foggy is uh i mean i don't want to say that as if and i don't i don't i don't i really don't mean this in any way other than like i just feel that i've kind of done my superhero movies and i i don't know that i've there's anything left for me that's particularly interesting in them for me to do but i will say that of all the producers in the world who have like sort of pretended to kind of know what the audience wants, the only guy I would ever believe is Kevin Feigy.

Kevin Feigy, if you think about what he was able to do, and the motherfucker was standing there on the set of Daredevil. He just wasn't in charge. It was one of the things I wish I'd go back in time on is like, go back in time and be like, no, not you, you, you, you, come here, come here. What do you think we should do? Do you remember him on set? Did you talk to him at all?

I remember him, yeah. He was like a junior guy. and Avi Arad was running it and the director and all this and everybody had their ideas and I was like, should I really be sniffing and saying justice?

I just wonder if that's the best and why am I sniffing? What am I smelling? And what does that have to do with justice? Is justice a smell? And I feel that Kevin may have been on my side, I like to think. And also Kevin just

has a really strong understanding for, you know, like exactly how to balance the sort of the degree to which you can be cheeky about the fact that you're wearing pajamas and then also when you can lean into a serious moment and when you when you need to like wink at the audience and how much of the sort of okay how do you balance these like a fight scene with a moment of comedy like he just has a talent for it and as such it would appear to me from the outside and I have to caveat that's by saying is that I'm just as much as an outsider as anyone sitting at home.

But my view of what he's done is to kind of construct Marvel Studios sort of in the way a great showrunner runs a television series, which is to have like, hey, we have the tone, we have the cast, we have the crew, we, you know, we built this script and here's your stunt coordinator, like, not that you just come on and say action. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But that like, and there's certainly been filmmakers like, like, like Ryan Coogler who've really like left a unique stamp and mark on it. And there's also been filmmakers who come into the Marvel universe and been really successful and left and gone elsewhere. And that isn't the case.

And I do think that it's because there's a kind of Kevin Feigey backstop. Yeah. And you've got a guy like, like all the great showrunners, it's just on a bigger scale. And they've done a good job at keeping secret, whatever the, I. I don't know what gets recut or what gets hashed out or whatever, but, but I would trust him. No, I mean, you hear the stories about how they make these Avengers movies and you're like, really? And somehow they all work out. Like they start without a script and then they build the reshoots and all of it. You can't possibly understand how difficult it is to have 20 some

consecutive billion dollar movies. I mean, I don't have I ever had one? Surviving Christmas, I think, made a billion. Reviving Crisner has made the one one thousandth of a billion dollars. But I mean, and I've had hit movies, you know, like, look, you talk about Gong girl, hey, big hit or Pearl Harbor or half a billion dollars, right? And maybe that's a billion dollars in contemporary, you know, inflation adjusted. But like, nonetheless, you know, Batman versus Superman, that was a big success. I think it was an $800 million movie.

In order to do that, it's just not an accident. Yeah. You know, and then like, yeah, okay, I'm sure they've been some misses along the, the way because truly it's an it's an affront to the gods to be perfect he may he may be doing that on purpose right let me throw him one exactly it's like those old version rug makers who intentionally weave a flaw into the rug yeah exactly uh but but he he has that understanding for that that genre story whatever so so do i think could we have fucking benefited from him on darrell well i mean bet your fucking life we could if you had a time machine that's what you do talk to the guy in the

corner. Hell yes. Okay, two challenges for you before you go. I do this with actors that have amazing filmographies. You're going to pick your best movie, bracket style. So I'm pitting them against each other. You ready? Sure. Goodwill hunting versus chasing Amy. What do you choose? I can go hunting just because it's more personal

to me. Okay. Gone girl versus Armageddon? Gone girl's more my kind of movie. Argo versus the town? You know, just different movies. I really do love both of the movies. I mean, I would say Argo just because I had grown as a director and tried more things. And honestly, I think the level of difficulty was higher.

I really did not know whether or not I'd be able to have these two really different tones work in the same movie, where you've got like mock execution of real American hostages in Iran and like straight up kind of Hollywood satire comedy. I thought like we could end up being, you know, laughed off the road. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I would say, I guess, Argo. BBS versus the way back. I like them both for different reasons. The way back again is, is I'm always going to opt for a more personal story.

You know, obviously a movie where about like the loss of a child and that kind of grief. And in that case, like, you know, triggering, you know, alcoholism and all sorts of things. But at the end of the day, that, that movie, is also like a real growth movie for me as an actor. I feel that I feel sort of like a late bloomer in a lot of ways. And I'm glad that I had the chance to stick around long enough to become an actor that where I feel I'm capable of doing kind of interesting stuff kind of on purpose. And that was one where I really felt that I was able to like conjure up some kind of authentic

stuff that, you know, when I was younger, I probably wouldn't have been able to do. Yeah, I'm being brave to like mind your own shit. in the best possible way. Absolutely. And you're always kind of theoretically mining your own ship. But again, it's sort of you can't get blood from stone. You know, if you don't have something that gives you the opportunity, you do something that's human and real.

It's a lot of credit to Gavin O'Connor is a wonderful director and whom I adore and was really my partner on that. And, you know, this dude didn't particularly want to do that movie. And we had to bring the price way down. And but at the end of the day, it was like, God, I love that movie. I love working with the young guys who are playing basketball players. It reminded me of being that age and doing school ties and just starting out.

And Genevon Car was in the movie I loved. And it was just one of those ones that I was a real favorite of mine. Okay. So you're down to the final four. Goodwill Hunting versus Gone Girl. Oh, I mean, you know, Good One Thing will always be like a formative movie for me. Although, you know, Gone Girl is really also truly, honestly, I love Gone Girl, but like getting to become friends with David Fincher and getting.

to know who's one of the guys I really love in my life has been his you incredibly meaningful gift. This is two of my like, you know, favorite people in the world of David and Matt. So today for today, for this moment, you just have to choose one. It's okay. It's not binding for life. Mallrats. And then Argo versus the way back then? Argo. Okay, Argo versus mall rats, I guess. Oh, that's close, but I'm going to go with Argo. Okay, there it is. We end every happy second fuse with profoundly random questions, Ben.

Are you a dog or a cat person? Dog. What do you collect? Cameras. What's your favorite? Movie posters. Yes. What's your favorite movie poster?

I've got a, I've got a Grand Illusion first edition poster. And that's one of my favorite movies, my favorite filmmaker. And that's probably my most cherished of all posters. What's your favorite video game of all time? Ooh, man, that's a good question. fuck that's hard what have you sucked what sucked the most life out of you the time out of you what's i mean there was a game called starcraft that probably took the most life out of me for a period of time like where i did and i like just got famous and all i didn't stay home for three years and play

starcraft where's ben unavail due to starcraft yeah uh although like i love you know valer it's a great game it's a great game the problem with that game is that i just with kids that have been raised like playing, I just get fucking rocked. And I'm like, are you motherfuckers cheating? You know what I mean? And I get mad. And they're like, 11. And like, fuck you, loser.

And it's, uh, it's very humiliating. But that's a great game. I love 2K. I love Madden. I love, um, you know, and the early like Doom when, when I first played that game, which then gave rise to quake and gave rise to all that. That's a great game. We played that, you know, endlessly for hours.

Like when we were doing good hunting, we were playing that. I think we were playing doom. Yeah. before even we were playing doom. I remember writing and taking these long breaks to play Doom. I can't believe it's been that long. I like and then there's other, I like those like kind of real time strategy,

civilization building style, which is sort of gone out of style. StarCraft was one of those. You know, there's an old game called Mist. That was a fabulous game. The great storytelling. You're on that island. And I feel like there's an opportunity

for somebody to do something like that again. That was an amazing. amazing video game. It's like the prisoner vibes. Yeah. I love that. I mean, but like I played fucking, I mean, you know, like Donkey Kong and Tetris and Miss Pac-Man for tens of millions of hours and after school going to the arcades and the

old days when I was a kid playing those classic games and so much so that I even, I still have a Miss Pac-Man, stand-up video game. And I mean, I'm a great fan of the, uh, and lover of video games. And now I play, I get to play 2K with my son and lose, which is, it's so humiliating. You and your 14 year old son just fucking just beats you and then just mocks me and derides me. And it's all I can do not to get really petty and competitive. Declada Johnson asked me this. I ask everybody, would you rather have a mouthful bees or one B in your butt?

One B in my butt. In fact, I'd love that. Anytime you want to, you'll get that, we'll get that sorted for you. What's the wallpaper on your phone? my kids picture of me my kids does this ever happen last actor you were mistaken for do you ever get mixed up with anyone oh yeah I went to the premiere of flirting with disaster and somebody came up and was like you're amazing in this film I assume I thought I was Ben Stiller uh I get mistaken for Matt all the time where people call me Matt all the time I don't think I'm actually mistaken

but I think they they sort of whatever dyslexia the names I'm 20s yeah basically um I have been mistaken for maybe Jake Jillen hole probably like Matt Dillon which like it's random like you just don't I've been mistaken you know there is that thing where people are just like I know you vaguely from something just tell me your filmography that's

yeah that's you aren't you the guy from I'm like nope if you don't know my name I don't have to stop that's the deal no selfie sorry buddy I'll get a picture with you who are you again nope nope Not doing it. Gotta know the name. I was in motherfucking surviving Christmas. Show the respect. The thing about surviving Christmas I have to say,

interestingly, which is the great gift of this life that I've had, which has been enormously fortunate, you know, even punctuated by all the, you know, those moments of disappointment, like surviving Christmas.

Like, Jim Gandalfini was one of the great men I've ever known. A prince, lovely guy, a phenomenal actor. And I wouldn't take that movie back for anything. Christina Applegate getting to work with her. She is. She's a spectacular person. Like, so some of these experiences, well, maybe not great for the audience, were definitely

great for me, you know? I mean, like I say, learned so much from, I've learned more from mistakes and from perceived failures and success. Success doesn't tell me anything other than to be a little bit more conservative or try to maintain it or worry about losing it. Failure teaches you that you can get back up off the ground, that you can be resilient, that like failure, that like, you can take risk because you've survived failure. And it also teaches you, like for me, it was like, if I'm going to fail, I'm going to fail on my own merits. I'm not going to kind of hue to what I think other people think I should do

because, like, you might, failing on those terms is the worst possible thing. Yeah, yeah. What's the worst note of director has ever given you? You can name the name or not. Uh, I mean, you know, something along the lines of like it's just like it's fucking stupid or so you know like

I won't say who my man is but he was a very blunt guy you know honestly that's Michael Bay that's Michael Bay I'm not going to say but there are you know the truth is like I remember asking Sean Penn once like what like

I remember I don't even know him particularly well I'm just a fan and I ran into him at the thing and we were talking and I asked him what he what frustrated him with the director and stuff because I was thinking about it myself and he just said too much talk. And I remember thinking, yeah, like,

the truth is once you get there, if you're working with good actors, like, it's not so much about the notes. You know what I mean? And Sean's like, I can play one fucking thing. You know, you want to spend talk for half an hour. Man, what faster? Like, what do you want?

It's the compulsion to fill the space. Like, oh, I have to justify my experience. Exactly. Like, you can do your whole soliloquy about it. If it makes you feel like I'm here and I got to go take all these and go out and play it. Like, you're cluttering my brain with your shit. now. Yeah, you're dumping all your shit on me. Like, um, so, so I've been lucky in that I,

I really learned that like the thing to do with actors is to give them a sense of authorship, freedom and support. And that that's really what's likely to get the best results. Okay. And finally, in the spirit of happy, say I confused, an actor who makes you happy. See them on screen. You're in a better mood. Oh, boy. Uh, actor that makes me happy. let's see I want to say somebody uh uh you know um I should say somebody I just forgot their name a new actor who's really terrific but I I feel like my brain is filled up with names a press store um an actor who I see that makes me happy I'll say Morgan Freeman every time I see Morgan on screen it's just like it doesn't matter what he's doing doesn't matter if he's just like

hello I'm like this is wonderful I love the guy and he I had a chance to work with him a couple All the time there's a gift, but he makes me happy to see. And I could watch the end of Shawshank Redemption any day. And that would make me happy. That whole like, you know, I hope. I hope to see my friend Andy again and shake his hand. I hope the Pacific is as blue as been in my dreams. I mean, that's to me like sort of the whole thing in a nutshell.

What's a movie that makes you sad? Oh, gosh, lots of them. I mean, I'll tell you a movie that made me sob with tears. that I think is a is a masterpiece. And the best depiction of alcoholism that's ever been rendered on screen is a movie called To Leslie. Andrea Ricebro's in it.

And that performance is as authentic and moving as anything I've ever seen on screen. And that woman, I just, I was so mesmerized by it that I asked to have a meeting with her. And I met her. And once I met her, I was just like, it was even harder for me to believe

that she did. And I was like, you must be an alcoholic. And she was like, no, no, I'm afraid God. And I was like, what? You know, how did you do that? I mean, that, that's one of the best performance I've seen in, I don't know, decades. She's a chameleon. She's always different. Fuck is she something else, boy. And finally, a food that makes you confused. You don't get it. Why do people eat that? Gluten free things. You like your gluten? Yeah. I'm like, if you're not, it's kind of like alcohol free beer. You know what I mean? I'm like, just go ahead and have some sudzy carbs. Like, no, not really.

What's the whole point of this thing here is to get your gluten on? Although this, I don't mean too prejudiced that judge anyone who needs to eat gluten-free food. You lost the gluten lobby. All gluten-lovers. No, I've lived the gluten-free lovers. All the gluten-allergic people.

But yeah, other than that, I don't know why you would choose to eat something that's gluten-free. It's sort of like taking the heart out of the melon, you know. Fuck it, man. That life is a bread is the bread of life.

And there's the wisdom. There it is. There's the wisdom of the day. Get yourself big loaf of bread. Plant yourself in front of the TV. Enjoy animals on Netflix. Congratulations, sir. Your press tour is officially done.

And I don't think I was canceled. We'll find out. What's the worst? You've been through worse. I'd like to think that. I really appreciate the time. Thanks very much. I appreciate it too.

It's great. And so ends another edition. of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh. That brought you Wonder Vision.

I was an Avenger, but I'm not a hero anymore. On October 14th, the Vision returns for the final chapter of the groundbreaking trilogy. That family wasn't real. You sure about that? I had a father called Vision. How is this possible? Don't miss the two-episode premiere of Marvel Television's Vision Quest. Nothing bonds a family together quite like Mortal Jeopardy.

Streaming October 14th, only on Disney Plus.