Happy Sad Confused - Ben McKenzie, Vol. II

Episode Date: August 7, 2023

Ben McKenzie joins Josh to talk about his new career as an author investigating the crypto market with EASY MONEY! SUPPORT THE SHOW BY SUPPORTING OUR SPONSORS! BetterHelp -- This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com/HSC today to get 10% off your first month To watch episodes of Happy Sad Confused, subscribe to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Josh's youtube channel here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes of GAME NIGHT, video versions of the podcast, and more! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

D.C. high volume, Batman. The Dark Nights definitive DC comic stories adapted directly for audio for the very first time. Fear, I have to make them afraid. He's got a motorcycle. Get after him or have you shot. What do you mean blow up the building? From this moment on,

none of you are safe. New episodes every Wednesday, wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, true crime fans. Tired of ads interrupting your gripping investigations? Good news. With Amazon music, you have access to the largest catalog of ad-free top podcasts included with your prime membership. After all, ads shouldn't be the scariest thing about true crime. To start listening, download the Amazon music app for free. Or go to Amazon.com slash ad-free true crime. That's Amazon.com slash ad-free true crime to catch up on the latest episodes without the ads. I marvel many times in the book, like, why the fuck is he talking to Ben?

Like, what is he just? Did you have that? I realize. Over and over and over again. I kept going, oh, my God, are you really saying this to me? You know there's a camera here. We're recording this. Yeah, exactly.

I record this. Yeah, I filmed a lot of this. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now. I'm Josh Horowitz, and today on Happy Say I Confused, we have a returning chance. He's been a fixture on television for decades. They don't give out 16 Choice Award nominations to just anyone, folks. But I'm willing to guess his latest distinction being a New York Times best-selling author

for his new book, Easy Money, might be his proudest professional achievement yet. It's the one and only Ben McKenzie back on Happy, Say I Confused. Hey, Ben. Hey, Josh. How are you, dude? It's great to see you, man. Congratulations. And really exciting to talk to you in this new context.

This must feel like a particularly interesting press tour, as it were, a little different than what you're used to. It's different in many different ways. But I just want to say, look, for the Teen Choice Award, you know, the people behind that production, I still want my surfboard. It's not too late. I've been nominated six times.

Like, come on. You're the Susan Lucci of Teen Choice Awards. Yeah. Maybe they'll give it to you. Maybe they'll give it to you for easy money, a new category at the Teen Choice Awards. I'm just saying. I'm just saying. I'm just saying. It's a win-when.

So, okay, so just to get the elephant out of the room, obviously we're in this horrible strike. We're talking about a totally different topic here today. This podcast, of course, supports the actors and the writers on strike. This is an insane situation. Now, luckily for us, Ben, you've given us an entirely new subject matter to talk about because you went ahead and spent the last couple years becoming an investigative journalist and author. So that's convenient for me. Yeah, well, it's convenient for me in the sense that obviously I'm not out here promoting any acting or writing work, and I support my guilds.

But yeah, one thing I can do is talk about the book. So let's talk about it. Well, talk to me a little bit about for friends and family in your life, does this feel like an abrupt left turn? I mean, this is like in your background, you have a degree, you have an interest in the subject matter. But when you kind of made the real plunge into this, did this catch those in your orbit off guard? or were they like, yeah, that checks out? Yeah, the general reaction was, what are you doing? Like sort of more confusion, potential concern.

You know, obviously I needed to tell Morena my wife about this. And we needed to have a nice conversation about, you know, life choices, level of commitment here. You know, it was the middle of the pandemic when I started. So at the time, Chauvet was sort of on ice there for a while. And so I think falling into it, it almost made sense in a way, in a strange way, because so many of us were just sitting at home glued to our devices, watching crypto. People make money on stuff like crypto. And so I came into it with a similar angle and then ended up on the other side saying, hey, this thing is

potentially fraudulent. But it's one thing to sort of say that. It's another thing to commit two years of your life to investigating it and documenting it and writing a book, which obviously I did not know how to do at the time. And I think, you know, that became a series of conversations between Marina and me and then at some point, you know, told my parents who were very confused and my brothers and, you know, basically everyone very confused, sort of like you seem very passionate about what you're doing. You seem like you might be right. And yet, there's all this other marketing that's saying that you're, You're probably not.

So I sure hope that you know what you're talking about. Well, yeah, as time goes by, it seems like, yes, history will be kind to you in this book. I remember I talked to Marina for the podcast during all of this. And I remember just mentioning what you were up to because at the time you were tweeting a lot, et cetera, and mentioning, Ben seems like he's really into this kind of crypto, like investigating what's going on. And like, you could just see her being like, yep, he is in it. Yeah. Yeah.

Jacob and I, Jacob Silverman, my co-author, we joke, we're going to start a support club for for wives whose partners are either into crypto and that they love it or into crypto and that they think it's a scam. It's either way. Both sides are hard for the spouse. It's addictive. Yeah, yeah. It's addictive.

Okay. So the book, the official title, easy money, cryptocurrency, casino capitalism, and the golden age of fraud. I was telling you before, you know, this book, look, I'm going to own up. Like, I'm an idiot when it comes to just general matters of. money, finance, investment, et cetera, and I, like many, many, many people over the last few years when I heard of Bitcoin or crypto, like my eyes kind of glazed over, and it was just like too much for my small brain to handle. And this book, you really thread a great needle in that. Like, it's a, it's very entertaining. It puts you, you know, you're kind of along the ride

with you in this kind of crazy adventure that almost feels like it's made to be an Adam McKay, David O. Russell movie. And by all accounts and reading these reviews and seeing how the financial community, the financial journalism community has responded, you know your shit and like you really delivered. So I guess talk to me about sort of like what was your approach? Like was I the audience? Was the financial community the audience? Who did you want to get something out of this? Right. Well, first of all, what you said there at the beginning is exactly what everyone says, which is that I'm, you know, and they say it from a very sort of humble place. I'm just not smart enough. I don't get it. You know, it seems so complicated, which was

very much the same place that I started out, because I'm not, you know, I don't know a lot about cryptography or computer science or things like that, but I do have a degree in economics. And so I wrote the book for people like you, the 80 plus percent of the country, to say, no, no, no, you got it. It's okay. It's not you. If it seems kind of complicated. Yeah. The point is, yeah, it's the anti-FOMO book. Like the point is, you should feel good. You should feel good that you just trusted your instincts and you didn't indulge, even though it would have been totally understandable if you had.

And for the other, you know, 16 to 20 percent of the country that did buy it, I also write this in the authors know at the beginning. You know, look, you probably statistically, you probably lost money. If you made money on it great, but you probably lost money, most investors in cryptocurrency have lost money at this point. And so I'm writing that book for you too, just to sort of tell you, look, you might have gotten scammed. Here's how it might have gone down, regardless if you're thinking about investing again or continuing to invest. There are some things you should know. And so I really sort of approached the writing of it in a way of, okay, how can I talk

to, well, my friend who encouraged me to invest. So my buddy came to me in 2021, Dave, who's mentioned in the book. And he said, you got to buy Bitcoin. And I love him to death. Dave's been a dear friend since college. But he had given me terrible financial advice when I was in my 20s. And he'd encourage me to invest in this company that was, you know, maybe a little sketchy. We lost our money. And so I wrote the book for people like Dave to say, this is like the simplest sort of economic way I can describe it, which once you start describing it as, hey, you may have noticed something about cryptos, they don't do anything. There's no good. There's no service. They don't really have a product behind them. People go, oh, yeah, yeah, I know. I did notice that actually,

now that you mention it. It's very much emperor's new clothes in that way. And so it was fitting that I, you know, I sort of fell down the rabbit hole in a way or convinced myself I needed to start talking about it after reading Francis, my six-year-old daughter, that story. I found myself as the child saying, look, this guy seems really naked. It seems like this is a completely, you know, there is no substance here. So I could be crazy, but I have to tell this story. I just have to. I sort of felt compelled to tell him. And so I started by approaching Jacob Silverman, this journalist who had written an article, even Donald Trump knows Bitcoin as a scam, which I thought was very funny.

we started collaborating on articles, almost as soon as the first article came out in November of 21, which was basically the height of the cryptomania. You know, the Super Bowl would be a few months later. The first article we wrote was about celebrities and just saying, you know, they really should be thinking about this differently. This is different than selling car insurance or soap. These are financial products and you really shouldn't be doing this. I mean, we said it a little bit more aggressively than that. But as soon as we started writing articles, people started coming to us, people inside the industry, people out of the industry. We thought we got tips. We got, and the truth of the matter is that even amongst the sort of upper echelon of crypto, people were

happy to talk. You know, I interviewed Sam Begman-Fried, of course, but also people like Alex Voshensky, who ran a crypto company. He's now been indicted for fraud. You know, it's a very talkative culture. They're very, uh, they love to talk to people in Hollywood. So it, I was going to say, yeah. How much of it is it about like, you know, there are pluses and minuses given your resume, your history, your, your, your recognizability going into something like this. But it does seem like, yeah, I marvel many times in the book like, why the fuck is he talking to Ben? Like, what is he just? Did you have that? I realize, Sue. Over and over and over again. I kept going, oh my God. Are you really saying this to me?

You know there's a camera. We're recording this. Yeah, exactly. I record this. Yeah, I filmed a lot of this. And yeah, I can't quite, I still can't quite figure out what that is, whether it's got to be some mixture of overconfidence, you know, some desire to talk to someone, you know, who's in media and entertainment.

I do think a lot of people in cryptocurrency obviously believe what they're saying. Sure. Or, and or there's this thing that happens. amongst people who are more, uh, let's say, they have an ability to make money off of people believe in it, believing in it. They can sort of, the pitch becomes the belief. It becomes this thing that they've sort of internalized to such a deep degree. They don't even realize that what they're saying is, you know, worrisome to say the least and potentially, you know, uh, you know, potentially somewhat of a confessional as to like, you know, what they might be up to.

Yeah, I realized that my superpower of being on TV and being in Hollywood and stuff really was a superpower. People genuinely would just talk to me in ways that they probably shouldn't have. So I figured, you know, run with it. Just keep going. How much do you think, you know, when we look back at this era of crypto and the rise and fall and whatever it ends up being? you know, reflects the times we're living in.

You know, we look at the Trump era, this kind of age of like the bullshit artists that can just bullshit a country, a world, and get away with it seemingly. Do you feel like crypto is kind of like the ultimate, like the financial extension of that? Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, I refer to it at the end of the subtitle, the Golden Age of Fraud. It's this era where, look, we elected a continent. man as president and he's out there selling things. There was not a lot of enforcement of, you know, white-collar crime, you know, tamping down a white-collar crime. And crypto just sort of

exploded in sort of the chaos of the response to the pandemic and all the money that was put into the economy, all of the easy money times. And so sort of macroeconomically speaking, it's totally understandable that people, when given that money, would gamble with it, or at least a certain percentage of people. That happens historically quite often. I think what's different is sort of Trump-era level of misinformation, disinformation, also social media, and the way that these narratives, because at the end of day, crypto is really just a story or a collection of stories. It doesn't really do anything. It's not a currency. It's an investment, but it's unclear.

what exactly it's an investment in, except the story that it can make you rich, it can solve problems of our regulated financial system. And so I think the existence of Trump era, sort of distrust of government, distrust of financial institutions, you know, perhaps correctly so, can then quickly spill over, particularly spread through social media into this thing that, oh, crypto solves all of these problems. Right. And that's, I think, the real sleight of hand. that was so effective. But it's actually, you know, the truth is it's easy to sell that story when the numbers are going up.

Sure. When everyone sees the, during the Ponzi's on its rise, people just want to believe in it so badly because they also want to make money, that it kind of takes on a life of its own. But the context under which it started with Trump and the COVID pandemic easy money times, I think is really sort of crucial to understanding how big it got. Hey, Michael. Hey, Tom. Well, big news to share it, right?

Yes, huge, monumental, earth-shaking. Heartbeat sound effect, big. Mait is back. That's right. After a brief snack nap. We're coming back. We're picking snacks. We're eating snacks.

We're raiding snacks. Like the snackologist we were born to be. Mates is back. Mike and Tom, eat snacks. Wherever you get your podcast. Unless you get them from a snack machine, in which case, call us. We call us. Goodbye. Summer movies, Hello Fall. I'm Anthony Devaney. And I'm his twin brother, James.

We host Raiders of the Lost Podcast, the Ultimate Movie Podcast, and we are ecstatic to break down late summer and early fall releases. We have Leonardo DiCaprio leading a revolution in one battle after another, Timothy Shalame, playing power ping pong in Marty Supreme. Let's not forget Emma Stone and Jorgos' Bougonia. Dwayne Johnson, he's coming for that Oscar. In The Smashing Machine, Spike Lee and Denzel teaming up again, plus Daniel DeLuis's return from retirement. There will be plenty of blockbusters to chat about, too. Tron Aries looks exceptional, plus Mortal Kombat 2. And Edgar writes, The Running Man, starring Glenn Powell. Search for Raiders of the Lost Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube.

Because if you think of it like an MLM or a Ponzi, a multi-level marketing scheme or Ponzi, you know, it's arguably the biggest in history. I mean, it's 40 to 50 million Americans bought it. It really did just take off like wildfire. Al-lhymas with menu Pizza Hut, Mybox, the new. Four chiarsat my box, to addle her on how-k. And, zied on it with a hood. I'llop my box today and let it on thugue you.

Pizza or Meltz, all in kifik. And, you'llabatt's the general. You'll choose two or a mishroop. Chiarat your not end up. and your Pizzahat My Box, the new Pizzahat My Box, the new shrewot.

And your howcum Pizahat I'llolab the day. It's interesting because, yeah, you make the analogy of the Emperor wears no clothes, and like you talked about interviewing Sam Bankman Free, like I think one of the questions

you ask him and maybe ask others that is very telling to me as a layman is how much real money is there in crypto? Like, how much does it actually equate you? What are we talking about? And what is the answer that you got to that? Well, I had asked Alex Mishinsky, this guy who ran a firm called Celsius in March of last year,

and he had said 10 to 15 percent, real money, which to me was kind of shocking because at the time, first of all, he didn't need me to define what real money was. Like, he knew what a dollar was. And he said, because sometimes the crypto people were like, what do you mean by? buy real money. And I'm like, oh, come on, give me a break. He just said it 10 to 15%. At the time, crypto's market capital was $1.8 trillion. So, you know, give or take, that means one and a half trillion just isn't there. It's not backed by real dollars, euros, you know, fiat currencies. And I asked Sam that same question in July when I interviewed him, Celsius had, I think,

just declared bankruptcy. And Sam sort of said, Yeah, no, that sounds about right. I mean, crypto had fallen, you know, a bit since then. But it still sort of shocked me because I think when the average crypto investor puts their dollars in, their actual money onto one of these exchanges, they assume that no matter what the sort of price is saying in crypto land, whatever a Bitcoin is supposedly worth or Ethereum or any of that stuff, they assume they can get their money back. But given the numerous red flags and the sort of the fact that exchanges like FTX are registered in Bahamas,

so these are offshore corporations dealing in sort of murky regulatory environments, let's say, there's no real guarantee that you're going to get your money back. I mean, the joke amongst the crypto-sceptics is when did you lose your money when you put it on the exchange. I mean, as soon as you put it on the exchange, you've got to get it back, right? no matter what it says on your screen, it doesn't really matter at the end of the day, because all you really care about, and what anyone really cares about in crypto, which is somewhat ironic, is real money. You know, how many Bitcoin you have isn't actually important if you can't actually use

your Bitcoin for anything. Yeah, it was pretty shocking to have Sam agree with Mishinsky. They're now both being charged with fraud. And you're saying, so these guys, if they said 10 to 15% was real, that might be the high side. These are the guys that went to jail that are being. being indicted. Yeah, I mean, they would have no incentive to like oversell you. So like, it's probably at best 10 to 15 percent or was. It's really interesting. As the regulators sort swoop in here and the law enforcement, like one of the things they want to do is make sure

that the bank accounts for these companies are locked in place. They can't just move the money because, you know, what Sam is alleged to have done is basically create a secret back door. we could borrow, using the most massive quotes you could imagine, if you're listening to this as a podcast, borrow his customers money, basically steal it, the allegation. And so, you know, given how many shenanigans are sort of going on, people are trying to freeze the money in place, law enforcement, so that the customers will have some guaranteed and get their money back. You referenced earlier what felt to me like a big, presumably tipping point for you when you got involved in this, which was frankly calling out some of your fellow actors who, you know, put their name and face on crypto and did commercials, very high profile commercials, and they're named in the book. You're named in your tweets and your articles. You know, there's people we love otherwise. You know, Matt Damon, well, Harry David. I'm sure it kind of tears you apart to be like, I don't want to do this. What are you guys thinking?

Was that a big decision for you? Did you hesitate? Did folks in your orbit say, this is a big leap for you to kind of call out these kind of folks? Yeah, I mean, look, I felt like I had to do it. Again, at the end of the day, none of this is personal. I actually don't know, I don't think I know any of the people that were showing very well. I've certainly met them and I respect their work, many of them. But this is a different thing than what their sort of mainline profession is.

And this does fit more into my wheelhouse, right? This is more in terms of what are these things economically, financially speaking? They're not currencies. So if they're investments, what are they investments in? To me, it was so easy to see how this could have gotten out of control, given what I know about sort of how, you know, how it works when you're at a big agency and your agent comes to you and says, hey, we've got this huge marketing campaign for this thing called crypto.

We don't know really what it is, but you're going to get paid X dollars to not do a lot of work. You know, I think people just kind of get, well, they get lured in by the same thing that crypto investors get lured in to, you know, easy money, right? The problem is that, you know, at the end of the, the day, these are investments. They're not car insurance or soap. And so this is a very different thing that a celebrity is endorsing. And I also wanted to kind of just lay down a marker and say, you know, you have such power as someone in the public eye. You really need to be judicious with how you use that power because people really do listen to you and have an impression of

you as a as someone who's successful who sort of knows about money i think there's an easy way that that kind of like yeah sure it's an actor but they're also wealthy and so surely they know about money and they know about this thing called crypto um and and and you would you would hate to see your fans um lose money over something that you endorsed knowingly or unknowingly i mean i think the vast majority celebrities have no poor intentions but um Yeah, I felt like I needed to be pretty aggressive. And so we were. I didn't get a ton of pushback.

I mean, I think now that it's collapsed, I hope that there would be a celebrity or two who would talk to me and we could just like have an honest conversation because I think that would be a very valuable voice to add in here. We're all human. We all make mistakes. So it'd be nice for a celebrity to just go, yeah, I screwed up, made a mistake. And, you know, I'm sorry.

So inevitably, when you run into one of these, folks at a party. You see Matt Damon across the room. I know you got a lot of Kim Kardashian parties. That's your scene, totally. That's what I say. Do you approach? Do you say anything? Do you hide in the corner? Do you run to the bathroom? Yeah, you know, I live a very quiet life in Brooklyn with my wife and kids. I'm not at the Kardashian parties. No, I mean, look, when and if I run into these folks, and I'm sure, you know, at some point I will. I assume they understand the nature of of it. I assume that they feel, well, I don't know what they feel, but I would imagine the experience has not been great for them on some level. And so my hope is, you know, get the awkwardness aside,

and then we could sort of chat about it. But, you know, the other thing is that people forget. And I think there's also a lot of sort of, hey, if we just don't talk about it, we'll just pretend as though it never happened, which might work for some folks. But I don't think it's a very healthy thing for us overall to do because then it just, you know, obviously is ignoring the reality of what happened, which is that, you know, tens of millions of Americans lost money on this stuff. That, you know, is something we should strive to do better on. And one way to doing that is just speaking out on it. So, you know, the book, documentary, I'll do my part. And I'm sure at some point some celebrity will be brave enough to say, oops, I'm not a minute.

made a mistake sorry you mentioned the doc you when i ran into you at your your book party you said you're you're turning this into a documentary you actually end your acknowledgments uh with uh thanking marina and saying please let me do it again so what does that what does that mean what does that exactly mean to you what does it mean to marina and do they mean the same thing that's that's that's the question yeah exactly uh i don't know um is the uh the truth in perhaps the scary part of it. I mean, I meant it, actually. It's funny that you took it as more of the documentary,

although that is also happening. I took it more as the book, you know, embarking on some new book venture. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I, you know, I did film a lot of these interactions, so I am working with folks to kind of figure out what that can be and what it can be in a different way than the book.

I'm Amy Nicholson, the film critic for the LA Times. And I'm Paul Shear, an actor, writer and director, You might know me from the League, Veep, or my non-eligible for Academy Award role in Twisters. We come together to host Unspooled, a podcast where we talk about good movies, critical hits. Fan favorites, must-season, and Casey Mistoms. We're talking Parasite the Home Alone. From Greece to the Dark Night. So if you love movies like we do, come along on our cinematic adventure.

Listen to Unspooled wherever you get your podcast. And don't forget to hit the follow button. Sticklish business anywhere you look at it. Come on, we'll stick together. movies? Well, classic movies? So do we. Tick Bush Business is the podcast where classic film is discussed in modern times. Hosted by me, film journalist Kristen Lopez, and my co-host, author Emily Edwards, we dive into the golden age of cinema with fun, heart, and serious expertise. As published film historians and lifelong classic movie buffs, we bring insider insights, deep research, and lively debates with a variety of special guests, ranging from

celebrities like Holly Madison, to TCM luminaries Dave Carger and Eddie Muller, and even family members of old Hollywood legends. Subscribe now to ticklish business on your favorite podcast app and let's talk about old Hollywood today. Because I do think there's a way of telling a global story here. Crypto didn't just affect us here in America. It had severe repercussions on places like El Salvador, which is the only country in the world that tried to use crypto's real money. And I went down there and interviewed people, including a whole community that's being kicked off his land, to build this Bitcoin city, whatever. So I want to try to tie some of those threats together for the documentary. In terms of a new book, yeah, I have no

idea. This has been such an adventure. I would just, I would love to try to have some new adventure that could also inspire me. It is such a lot of work to, you know, to do this. I'm so grateful I didn't know how much work it was until I got into it and it was too late but you really don't want to embark on a book project unless you're very very excited about it because it's going to be a lot of hard work. Pizza or Meltz, all by kiefk. And the other part of your janebatechre not end uptieh. These are your and your churotikasurot mybox the new

menu Pizahat My Box the new. By your and your, Pizzahat, I'll-tlob today. Okay, it's official. We are very much in the final sprint to election day. And face it, between debates, polling releases, even court-appearance. It can feel exhausting, even impossible to keep up with. I'm Brad Milkey. I'm the host of Start Here, the Daily Podcast from ABC News,

and every morning my team and I get you caught up on the day's news in a quick, straightforward way that's easy to understand with just enough context so you can listen, get it, and go on with your day. So, kickstart your morning, Start Smart with Start Here and ABC News, because staying informed shouldn't feel overwhelming. you started the book correct me if I'm wrong you started the book uh after consuming some edibles what percentage of your of your great ideas or bad ideas have come after consuming an edible is this the only greatest thing that's come out of out of dabbling and edibles over the

years uh for me personally yes so i would say a very high percentage of my great ideas have come out of it and also a very high percentage of my terrible ideas um it's a it's a it's a It's a mixed bag. You're not really sure, or a mixed 10 of edibles. You're not really sure, you know, the results of it until you wake up the next morning and you're like, actually, that was a, what seemed like a really good idea was not, in fact, a really good idea. Edibles useful for getting the idea, not so much for executing on the idea.

Right, right, right, right. And any particularly bad ones you want to cite or best left unsaid? Oh, oh, terrible ideas that I've had. Oh, that's a good idea. Oh, in the screenplays, endless screenplay ideas, TV, TV show ideas, you know. You know, it would be cool. Yeah.

Yeah, you don't be cool, man. Yeah, yeah. You check your notes folder in the morning and you're like, it's got one line of gibberish and you're just like, that's not even English. Yeah. That's not even English. What's doing?

What, um, you know, I mentioned at the outset, uh, we're talking, uh, during this, uh, insane time during the writer's strike, the actor's strike. Just how were you feeling perspective wise? Like, I mean, I feel like all of our, not to speak for you, but I feel like a lot of people I talked to were like we were hoping there was some humanity

running the studios that would come to their senses and it feels like there's no humanity. There's no one coming to their senses. Are you optimistic? Right. No, they're literally trying to replace with AI, right? I mean, it's literally a lack of humanity in that sense. Truly.

Yeah. So, yeah, just your take on the situation? I mean, I, you know, I'm, I'm, it's a lot of emotions. I would imagine I feel similar to a lot of people. people in the sense. I'm very proud of the way the actors union has stood up. We've stood up for ourselves and we've stayed in solidarity with the writers. I'm a member of all three guilds. And so I'm very proud of the United Front that we're presenting there. That being said, I'm shocked

at how aggressive the studios were being. I didn't, I guess I'm naive. I thought after two years of cryptocurrency, I was fairly jaded and cynical. But I was like, oh, yeah, it'll be a strike, but you know, I'm sure cooler heads will prevail. I still think eventually a deal will have to be struck, you know, at some point because the studios need their spring summer movies and we all have a vested interest in, you know, working this out so we can get back to work. But I was not prepared with how far apart we were and apparently still are. It's still sort of shocking to me. The studios response to the AI question was particularly concerning. There's nothing to see here. Yeah. I mean, whenever they say that, you know

something's happening. You know you're getting screwed. Is the threat of AI, it's not overstated, is it? I mean, is it existential in your mind or is it like? I genuinely don't know. too many times, yeah. I genuinely don't know. Here's what I do feel comfortable saying is whether or not AI itself will replace us using AI as an excuse to sort of take away our paychecks and, you know, transmit them into some sort of technology that may or may not be, you know, effectively using our intellectual property in terms of our, you know, our faces, our voices, our voices. or whatever. I think it's a tool that can be used to, you know, to weaken our ability to fight for a fair wage. And so they're using it there. I don't think either side really knows which

direction it's going in. Unfortunately, you know, the problem is we've had such a miserable track record with the studios on issues like streaming where they're like, you know, nothing to see here, right? It's the same playbook. You can't really trust them that they have our best interest at heart. So you have to fight tooth and nail to get it, you know, set up as clearly and to find as clearly as possible on issues like AI that we own ourselves. They cannot buy us, you know, in perpetuity forever across the universe, all of our likenesses and things like that. But it is moving so quickly, the technology that I think, or at least that's the marketing, that I think it's hard for either side to sort of know what they're, what,

their fallback position is, right? Like, like, they're both trying to feel each other out and come to some middle ground, but they're so far apart from each other. I'm starting to turn to know where that is. I'm going to let you go on our happy, say, confused profoundly random questionnaire. Some random questions for you, Ben. What do you collect? Is there anything you collect? What do I collect? I like old vintage watches, but broken ones. So I'll say, sometimes just be, don't tell anybody about wearing a vintage watch that's broken to a very nice event. And so people ask me for the time and I'll have to get out my phone. Just for show. Yeah, just for show. Yeah, I like them. I like them as kind of like costume jewelry. Nice. What's the wallpaper on

your phone? It is a picture of my, uh, my son. He's, uh, very, very, it's cute and small, and a little. Yeah. He's two years old. This is when he was a baby. Uh, Favorite adult beverage? You have a go-to? Favorite adult beverage? I like a negroni. Always good. Always solid.

Last actor you were mistaken for? Last actor I was mistaken for. Hmm. You ever signed... Yeah, go ahead. No, no, no, no. I'm trying to say. think i don't remember that um never signed a photo of another actor being like okay fine oh

i remember somebody being convinced i was kevin connelly from the entourage at one point i was like what very i did not sign something for them they really they genuinely thought i didn't know that i was kevin connolly right you'd blocked it out yeah too many to groaned yeah exactly you need those those residual checks are probably pretty good you might want to accept it It's true This is very apropos for the time we're in Aliens, what are your thoughts? Do we have, is extraterrestrial life an actual thing?

Ooh, could be, could be, yeah, I wouldn't rule it out. Okay. I don't know about here. I don't know if they would have been here. Yeah. Right, right. What's a podcast that you could host? Give me a topic.

What's the one that you could opine about a subject? The Ben McKenzie show is all about I want to it needs to be in the dad category uh yeah I think parenting I would I think I would do a really wonderful like horrible parenting podcast I think that'd be fun actually just guys actually talking about yeah just printable mistakes sort of things they've learned over the years don't do that nice a cautionary tale yeah indeed and finally uh in honor of happy second confused. Actor that always makes you happy. You see them on screen. You're in a good place. Yep. Philip Baker Hall. Also solid. Great. Yeah. Is there a movie that always makes you

sad? Oh, God. Yeah. A movie that always makes me sad. There's so many. What's the movie with Owen Wilson and the dog? Oh, Marley and me. Yeah. No, that's a Marlon and me. That's a no go for dog owners. I've cried. I've cried publicly in airplanes over Marley and me. I've learned my lesson. That's a bad combo.

You don't want a sad movie on a plane. Altitude, sadness. Yeah. No. Ugly. And finally, a food that makes you confused. A few that makes me confused. Hmm.

You see it on the menu. I don't get it. Why do people eat that? That's just weird. I understand crepe. I just, there's something about them. I just don't trust. I don't know what it is about a grape, but I just don't.

Look, we know you're a skeptic from your work from easy money. You're just a natural skeptic. I don't know. It's a, it's a delivery system, the crepe. It gives you, it's not about the vessel. It's about what's inside the crepe. I've been told this many a time. And yet I don't know, why do I need the crate?

You know, that's my concern. Then just give me the other stuff. Well, if you want, it wouldn't make sense. If you have a Nutella crepe, I mean, you're just not going to get a hand. of Nutella and just eat it. You're not a savage. You need something to get it in your system. You're assuming a lot about me. I mean, all I really eat is a thing in just a spoon. Yeah, no, I get that. I get that. It just doesn't quite, I don't know, I don't trust it. I don't trust the crate. That's what it comes down to. Fair enough. There's

our poll quote. Congratulations, man. You were on the pod a bunch of years ago, and I love talking to you then. And ever since then, we kind of became like social media buddies. And I can always tell you know it's weird to say but you can tell someone is a good human i always got that vibe from you and then following you in the years after i'm like everything he says i'm on board with and then sure enough you embark on this crazy adventure and um your heart's in the right place your brain's in the right place i learned a lot from it i cannot endorse it enough easy money cryptocurrency casino capitalism the golden age of fraud new new york times best selling author mr ben mackenzie crazy uh congratulations what is happening what a roll what a

world, right? I feel the same about you. I've always known you as just a great guide. It's great to have you on, or great to be on your show and to talk about something else, talk about something in addition to the profession we love. There you go. So thanks for all the kind of words, man. Appreciate it. Anytime. Anytime. Good luck with the book, man. All right. Thanks, and so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh. The Old West is an iconic period of American history

and full of legendary figures whose names still resonate today. Like Jesse James, Billy the Kid and Butch and Sundance, Sitting Bull, Crazy Horse and Geronimo, Wyatt Earp, Bat Masterson and Bass Reeves, Buffalo Bill Cody, Wild Bill Hickok, the Texas Rangers, and many more. Hear all their stories on the Legends of the Old West podcast. We'll take you to Tombstone, Deadwood, and Dodge City, to the plains, mountains, and deserts for battles between the U.S. Army and Native American warriors, to dark corners for the disaster of the Donner Party,

and shining summits for achievements like the Transcontinental Railroad. We'll go back to the earliest days of explorers and mountain men, and head up through notorious Pinkerton agents and gunmen like Tom Horn. Every episode features narrative writing and cinematic music, and there are hundreds of episodes available to binge. I'm Chris Wimmer. Find Legends of the Old West, wherever you're listening now.