Happy Sad Confused - Ben Mendelsohn

Episode Date: November 22, 2017

Ben Mendelsohn admits that only a few years ago he'd all but given up on his dreams of a film career. For a couple decades he'd experienced pockets of success in his home country of Australia but while his contemporaries like Russell Crowe and Guy Pearce broke through it just seemed like it was never going to happen for Mendelsohn. As Mendelsohn tells the story in this episode of "Happy Sad Confused", it all changed with a little crime thriller named "Animal Kingdom". Since then it's been a remarkable run for Ben and he tells Josh all about it here, from starring opposite Ryan Reynolds in "Mississippi Grind" to playing an instantly iconic Star Wars villain in "Rogue One". Mendelsohn geeks out with Josh about their mutual love of his "Darkest Hour" co-star, Gary Oldman, plus he talks about the prospect of playing a villain in "Captain Marvel" and reveals why his dream role is Doctor Doom! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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See Golden Nuggett Casino.com for details. Please play responsibly. Today on Happy, Sad Confused, Ben Mendelson on becoming an overnight success story in his 40s, playing bad guys in Star Wars and a Marvel movie, and playing against type in Darkest Hour. Hey guys, I'm Josh Horowitz. Welcome to the show. Welcome to our special Thanksgiving edition of Happy Sad Confused. Thanksgiving Fantabulous. Yes, we didn't spend any time trying to decide what to call it.

So Sammy just came up with a fantabulous. That's it. Sammy, a welcome return back to the intro. I'm so happy to be back. I missed Hutch. You did miss the Hutch. He missed the Hutcherson. He'll be back.

He'll be back. He's got to be back. I was really upset about that. He was a lot of fun. Of course he was. Calm down. Of course he was. So we're taking this mere hours before the Thanksgiving break.

Before Thanksgiving itself. Yes. We bet up. Oh, my God. We need to cook the turkey. And so a lot to be thankful for this year, Sammy, including the end of your 20s. This is crazy. This is it.

Guys. This is the last time you'll hear me as a 29-year-old. I'm going to sound so much more mature on the next one. Have you been dreading? Is this a big one? Yeah, I'm turning 30. Calm down. I know it's been a long time since you turned 30, so it's hard for you to remember.

This is the 11th anniversary for me turning 30. But it's a weird one, you know? Yeah. Time to grow up, Sammy. Yeah. Time to leave those childish games behind. I'm going to start wearing pantsuits. Right.

I'm going to go work at a bank. Really? Yeah. I don't think that's it. I don't think it works that way. This is it. That is. What Thanksgiving traditions in the Heller household?

Is there a movie, a dish? What time do you guys eat? Can me set the scene? Big. Because I'm coming over. Well, it's a big holiday for the Hellers. Linda Heller goes all out. because, well, it's, you got my birthday.

Right. Parents' anniversary is on my birthday. Oh, wow. Which is annoying of them. That is annoying. And then, yeah, I know. It's probably annoying for them, too, frankly. Well, it's...

Nobody wins in this scenario. But, like, if you're married, you get a birthday and an anniversary, so it doesn't, you don't, I don't feel bad about it. Right. Like, they both have birthdays, too. Okay. That's fair. And Mother's Day and Father's Day.

Okay. So no one cares. You need to get out of your system. But we do, see, before my brothers had. kids we do like a solid 637 o'clocker right but now they're a bunch of kids so it's like a five four 35 o'clock I think we're the anomalies I don't know if this is like an east coast thing or something because we also tended to have later like meals in the evening but I feel like people do it at like two o'clock I know my in-laws do it very early and it's like and I think

that's the norm actually I think we're the odd ones but then don't you fall asleep well I think the idea again we're too ignorant people right the idea is you eat early and then you can I'm like nibble and gnaw the rest of the night. It's like an all day eating affair, which I'll eat all day. I'm cool with that part of it, but I'm just conditioned for, I like the, I need, I don't eat dinner before 6 o'clock. I don't eat during nap time. Yeah, exactly. Anyway, even whenever you like guys, it's fine.

I like to watch some Harry Potter marathons. Oh, yeah, that's fun. I like my family watch football downstairs and I'll go upstairs and silently and. Yeah, yeah, and watch the hundred games by myself, yeah, pretty much. Well, our guest this week, apropos of nothing you've just said, is Ben Mendelso. He's not appeared in a Harry Potter movie. Were you freaking out? I love Benz.

Were you, like, so giddy that morning? I was very excited because... Been extra time ironing your button-down shirt. Ben Mendelsohn is just like one of my favorite... I guess he's a character actor. He would call him that. He's a guy that in the last six or seven years has... His career is kind of like revved up into, like, a totally new level.

thanks to his breakout film, which was Animal Kingdom, this Australian film, Animal Kingdom, which if you have not seen it, Sammy, I recommend, check it out. It's got Joel Edgerton in it. Jackie Weaver got Oscar nominated for it. I'm familiar. Yep, yep. So a lot of great people in it, and it's a really good movie. And that kind of broke him through outside of the Australian market.

And since then, you know, he obviously popped up as the bad guy in Rogue One. He was starred with Ryan Reynolds in a great film called Mississippi Grind, Bloodline. I was going to say, for me, he's Bloodline. Yeah, and I think he won an Emmy for that. He was excellent in that, and he's, he's just working with the best. I was very attracted to him in Bloodline. Oh, thank you for that confessional moment. Okay.

So, yeah. So everyone knows I find him attractive. And he's just firing on all cylinders. He's working with such great actors, including the great Gary Oldman in his new film. You have to call him the great Gary Oldman, I feel like, right? I think that's his first name. Yeah. And the film is Darkest Hour.

Gary Oldman stars as Winston Churchill. and it is an astonishing piece of acting and transformational acting because Gary has all the prosthetics and he is just unrecognizable and he is the presumptive favorite to win every award this season. I would be shocked if he does not win best actor

and he's surrounded by Ben Mendelssohn who plays King George. I love that. I know who of course was, you know, Colin Firth of course won for playing that role in the King's speech and this is a different story. This is the story of Churchill

rising to power and kind of making the pivotal decisions that, you know, seemingly in the end, changed the course of history and saved his country. Saved Western civilization. I mean, let's not overstayed it, but kind of. Yeah. I mean, I don't think we'd be here without him. Let's say that. Thanks, Winston.

This is a very good movie. It's directed by Joe Wright, who did Atonement. And, yeah, it's a solid piece of work all around. And it's going to be a big one this award season. So we talk a lot about that, but we talk about his crazy, amazing ride. the last seven years and some of his influences growing up. And he's just, he's a character in the best possible way.

I really vibed with him really well. I think he's my new best friend for life. I don't want to overstate things. All your other best friends are going to be so upset. Exactly. Luckily, there was an opening for this position. Yeah. Everyone's going to freak out. Yeah, Michael Shannon might be angry with me.

Michael Shannon and Mark Wahlberg are furious. Seriously. So, yeah. So there's a lot in this conversation to enjoy, including his talking about, you know, being the bad guy in Star Wars and potential. playing the bad guy in the next big Marvel movie, Captain Marvel, the movie starring Gray Larson. Yeah, exactly. So let's toss us to that conversation right now. Wait, before you do that,

what he got? I want to just remind everyone to rate, review, and subscribe. Very good. Always on message. Very good job, Sammy. And you can get a shout out, guys. This is true. It's true. This is true. Go on iTunes, review, rate, and subscribe. And that review part is important because you can be as super famous as Sammy, has become thanks to this podcast. We will read your review on the intro, and Riches will surely follow it. And I'll probably try to be your friend, too. I don't know if you're encouraging it now.

Well, yeah, I'll ignore you. Have a happy Thanksgiving, everybody. Happy 30th, Sammy. Oh, thank you. And everybody out there, please enjoy this conversation with Ben Mendelsso. It's always a great pleasure to see. one of my favorite actors working today, Mr. Ben Mendelsohn.

It's good to see you, man. Thank you. It's good to see you, man. We last spoke at the craziness of Comic-Con, I think. Things are a little calmer now, just the two of us in my sad little weird office. It doesn't look, I mean, these offices are weird. I'll give you that. It's empty, so it's weird. Yeah, they're not sad.

I'm looking around there is a big trouble in a little trying a poster. It's signed. There's a Back to the Future poster. It's signed. There's a color of money poster. It's signed, and there is The Hunger Games killing season, and it's signed. That is, oh, and there's a beautiful, big, big photo of you and Michael Shannon signed. We need to get one of you and me together up here.

Well, yeah. I mean, that would be pretty cool. I would happily let's play that. There's room on the wall for you and me. This is a really great, and you've got Frank. I love Frank. Yeah. Great movie, right?

Yeah, and great writer. The wonderful, and why am I? Why am I doing this? I'm blanking myself too. And I know the human, and it is, oh dear. You know, we're doing this late in the afternoon. And at that time, my brain always fries men who stare at goats, the end, the psychopath test. John Ronson.

Thank you, John Ronson. Sorry, John Ronson. The love is there. Don't worry. The love and appreciation is there. Yes. You've always been a movie, man, movie buff, movie geek? Well, I don't know.

You know, like, I'm sort of like, I guess half, half, you know, I'm a half-cast geek. Which the top half or the bottom half? I don't know if it's that clearly delineated. But I've always, I mean, you know, they have a big impact on you. You know what I mean? Like, you see them. I think there's that classical period from eight to about 15. And the stuff you see.

Evidence by my walls here, exactly. Right? But you think about it, you go back, you think about that period that is. such a intense, you know, you're an intense audience at that stage. And the stuff that imprints and hits you then really, really stays with you. So mine were things like Midnight Cowboy, Thunderbolt and Lightfoot. Sure. Love Thunderbolt and Lightfoot.

Love that so much. And taxi driver when I was about 15. And, you know, they were the big one. I mean, I had Star Wars at the start of that. Yep. Alien. Okay. So mid to 870s is kind of like your jam in terms of...

Well, you know, I'm 69, so, you know, by the time that stuff rolls around, yeah. Yeah, you're about eight years old when Star Wars comes out. Yeah, and the other ones I've seen on, you know, I see on TV. No, I'm in the cinema for Star Wars, and I remember that one big time. Yeah. I mean, it's funny because, like, we've talked a couple times in recent years, and there's been a lot of opportunity to talk because you've been working, it seems nonstop. You've had a lot of great opportunities.

And yet I feel like I'm not. I pride myself on being a film geek and I know my shit generally I don't know a good portion of your career I know like almost everything you've done in the last seven years. I've probably seen everything since Animal Kingdom and yet I feel like there's a lot I could spend

a week going back and just discovering like what your life was the first 20 plus years of your career. Yeah. That's an interesting place for an actor to be where you kind of like you almost can start from scratch at 40 and there's no baggage for an audience. No and look it's

very unusual. It's the kind of, you know, it's the wonderful consolation to the 20 years I spent coming here with nothing. But, you know, it's very unusual for someone to not have, you know, some type of relationship, you know, in a viewing, acting sense by that stage. So that's kind of, I think that's worked out, you know, that's, I'm sure that's a factor in all of this. Had you ridden off this kind of career? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Oh, before, well before Animal Kingdom. Well before it. Because you'd appeared here and there in a couple of studio films. Yeah, yeah. But for whatever reason. And many in your peer group. Yeah. Like, who was your peer group?

Okay, so you're thinking about, you're thinking Nicole, you're thinking Naomi, you're thinking Russell, you're thinking Hugh is actually after my peer group. Hugh comes a few years later. Guy Pear. there or? Yeah, no, guys, guys very, and guys very much. And Guy in a lot of ways is the most remarkable because Guy, um, Guy and Simon Baker, both of them escaped, you know, what, what appeared to be, um, almost, you know, career death sentences of being massive heart throbs in, in, you know, in a, you know, in a, you know, a pretty intense. That's a sticky thing for you know,

and then, you know, and then be, you know, be over. Yeah. So, like, when something like Ellie Confidential happens and you see, like, Russell and Guy in that, are you like, oh, that's amazing? Or, like, why is that not me? You know, I mean, neither. I mean, I'm neither, that's amazing nor that should be me.

I'm, you know, I mean, that was pretty good for them. Yeah. And, you know what? They were both fantastic in that film. But they got that film because two guys that were supposed to do it, two movie stars, dropped out. You know, so that was that last minute call. That's the same thing that happened to me from trespass.

There was to be another actor there. Oh, really? In fact, that actor was going to be Nick Cage, and there was someone else playing the other role. Then Nick had dropped out. and, you know, it had switched around. He played the other part, la, la, la, la. And that just kind of came, you know, because of that.

So that seems to be the way that, you know, those kind of breaks can occur. That supposedly, correct me if I'm wrong, I read different kind of versions of it, that romper stomper. Was that something that you were supposed to do? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I, you know, I'd shaved the head. I'd started the work on it and stuff like this. um we uh we couldn't get that one together there was um there was some uh yeah there was some

i'm seeing i'm seeing smile now yeah yeah no i'm just gonna i'm not no it wasn't i mean you know look it um it uh yeah i mean you you know you watch these things happen and you go i mean there've been a couple of those yeah there've been a couple of those suffice to say that you know My conclusion by the time, you know, I guess around, you know, 2005 or six or whatever had come around. I was just like, well, it's kind of done, you know. Like you had a great, you know, kind of, you had a great sort of career going in your late teens, 20s.

And then, you know, you're a 35 year old or whatever. And you're like, well, you're really going to sit up and wait around for. And I knew, you know, I could probably, You were making a living still No, I wasn't, no, I wasn't, no, no, I didn't work for about three years there. So, no, I didn't, I didn't think of it ending because I was still making a living. It wasn't some sort of highbrow kind of thing like that. Very practical, we can get the

bank account, well, you know, like what are you going to do? You're going to sit around the rest of your life sort of waiting for, you know. And that's actually the typical kind of trajectory of a career anyway. There's an intense kind of period or what I'm you know and then you know it moves on I mean the spotlight moves on that's the nature of it how far how far down the road of thinking about what you're else you're going to do with your life did you get in terms of like how you're well I had a time limit thing on it so I kind of thought okay I'll give it another two years you know because I didn't you know I didn't really know what else to do I had ideas you know pipe dreams really just sort of notions

nothing um nothing really um practicable or anything like that i just and i'd done other jobs you know i mean there were other things i'd done but i um they would just kind of be manual labor kind of you know pick up jobs whatever you um so you know i thought about that and then um i thought about leaving you know the industry altogether and i thought about maybe doing something differently anyway whatever yeah it didn't it didn't happen that way the time limit ran out and then still was nothing really going on and then I just didn't know what to do and I just sort of you know I had a fantastic girlfriend at the time who was um uh you know I would take the dog out for walks during it was actually not a bad time right you don't want to mean like the funny thing

about these these things is um your career might be going like shit but your personal life's kind of great right and I was happy I just wasn't yeah and I was was. I was, you know, I was pretty happy. It wasn't a bad, bad time. I just knew I had to sort of do the next sort of 50 years of whatever. This week is great. It's just the next 30 or 40 years that I'm a little worried about. Well, you know, it's, yeah. So, and this, I mean, look, we've talked about this before, but it is true. And you'll, I know you'll always say this animal kingdom was the thing that changed your career. Yeah, without doubt. And it changed it. I mean, I watched it again this past week just to refresh, and it's a great film

just to check out if you haven't seen it. It didn't only change your career. It changed a bunch of your peers. Just about everyone, just about everyone that participated in that in, you know, went on, I mean, David, Misho gave a lot of people their careers.

And, and, you know, we quite correctly credited him with that. I didn't think David was going to do that. I didn't think that was going to happen. So what was the turning point when you saw the industry or like where did it screen or how quickly did the tie turn on that in terms of like oh this is well it was i mean it was kind of apparent i mean sundance was the big one

you know sundance going to sundance hearing that audience after it had screened you know hearing them like wow that's a movie yeah um but nothing came of it right like it was just like the tumble weeds kept blowing down the you know la la la nothing came of it for like, I don't know, a year or something like that. Like, it was quite a, look, these timeframes get a little, you know, but, yeah, nothing came over for quite a while. And then, bam. And what was the bam?

It was trespass. That was it. It was a call out of the blue, completely out of the blue. That was my first, yeah, that was my first, you know, American job. And what was, so what was your, were you, did you have a persona, like, back home? Like, what was that? I had a couple. of them. I mean, they'd gone over

iterations. To start with it was sort of like you know a sweet you know, sweet boy trying to, you know, boy loses girl, boy gets, you know, that one of those kind of things.

And then it was kind of you know, it morphed into what they used to call a lad you know, or an ochre or a larricon. Larrican is the correct term. And a larican

is kind of like a working class kind of everyday, kind of cheeky you know, FU kind of Australian guy. Yeah, wise us. Yeah. Yeah.

So then there was that kind of phase and then obviously the most recent sort of thing, you know, can be characterised by sort of malevolence. Right. which thankfully this latest project which we're going to get to flies in the face of i would say yeah it does fly in the face of it was a huge um huge huge surprise uh well let's jump to this one then we'll backtrack because i i got a chance to see it again last night the film is darkest hour i've seen this twice it's it's a it's a beautiful piece of work i mean from the performances which you know you and christ and scott thomas are getting attention and of course gary oldman is getting a ton of very justified praise for this And it shouldn't be ignored.

I mean, just from a craftsmanship, Joe Wright is an impeccable director. It's a rousing piece of material. Oh, it's beautiful. It really works with it. It's fun to see with an audience. Like, it's inspiring. It's hopeful, even though, you know, belies the title. It's actually like a very, I don't know, it's a powerful piece of cinema.

I feel like that we kind of need. I mean, not to put it on too big a pedestal, but I think it's coming at a good time. It does seem like the stars are lined up for it. I mean, it was conceived many, many years back, but it really seems to be ringing a bell at the time right now. So let's geek out a little bit on Gary Olden. Yeah, because like, you know, I mean, it's, it's, I'm fine doing that anyway. Even before Darkest Hour, he was basically top three or five.

Oh, no, like easily, easily, you know, easily. What was your Gary Oldman jammed? Did you have a favorite growing up that you kind of... A favorite? Well, there's so many of them. I mean, prick up your ears. Dracula is... Dracula is one that I kept returning and returning to.

Dracula, I consider, has the best love scene that's ever been put on film. I think the final... Were he seducing her? Oh, good God, no. Good God, no. I mean, how ridiculous. Like, you know, like, that's all right. But it's kind of like, whatever,

compared to, no, it's on the bed. It's when he's, you know, take me away from all this death. And it's what goes on. It's the transition in his face from the blissful, wanting oneness to the horrible realisation of what this love is going to do.

And I think that's a really, I mean, the reason it's such a great, great love scene is it's sort of, you know, it's what happens for a lot of people. This is not the bliss of one, but what am I going to do to them? What are they going to do to me? All of this. It's an incredibly beautiful, and it's just, yeah, it's amazing.

It's my favorite love scene ever. Really? Oh, yeah, without a doubt. I mean, you're speaking, I'm obsessed with that film. That's an amazing piece of work. Yeah, I do think, you know, there are films which have a lot more to sort of, they They drift a lot more in love and stuff like that. And they have beautiful performances where you can see like, you know,

the effect of love and stuff in the bloom of it. Like I'm thinking of blue is the warmest colour. I mean, that performance is extraordinary. I mean, the blushing, the just, that's an extraordinary performance too. You're not going to see another one of those. But I mean, and I don't mean the humpy-pumpy bit. So I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the, just the exchanges are extraordinary.

Other ones of Garry's? Okay, so I've said, prick up your ears. I've said that. And then we've got, you know, I mean, they go on and on and on. I mean, see the Nancy. Tinker Taylor Soldier Spy, if we want to go recent. Fifth Element, of course. Leon, aka the professional.

I don't think he likes the Fifth Element. I've brought up the Fifth Element. You know what? He can afford not. Look, the thing is when, and they're not. not made for him. None of them are made for him. So it doesn't matter what he thinks about it, because they're for us.

It's true. It's not, when you make a film, who gives a rat's ass whether the participants like it or not? I don't. I just want him to get the same enjoyment I get out of it. Yeah, I know. Well, unlucky. Unlucky. It's not made for him. So tell me this. Okay, so you're acting opposite someone like

this, and I think it's only three scenes, maybe, three or four scenes with him. And it's an interesting kind of evolution of this relationship. between... I think you're right. Right? Yeah, I think there is only... Yeah, I think you're right.

So you cover a lot of ground in... Yeah, we do. ...evolution of a relationship over the course of three very key scenes. Yeah, we do. You know what? I hadn't even thought of that. Yeah.

It just occurred to me last night seeing it for the second time because I was also zeroing on sort of what the opportunities that you get to do in the film. And it really, yeah, it's starting like where you go by that last scene without ruining sort of, I mean, it's history,

but like without ruining sort of like the rapprochement or whatever they come to it. Absolutely, and I think that's appropriate. You know, I think that's appropriate. But it is, it is a, George quite rightly thinks that Winston Churchill is a dodgy appointment. Right. He's very dodgy.

You know, he's messed up a lot of stuff. He's made really bad calls on a personal level. He also backed George's brother to, you know, go on, do follow your, you know, like all that. I mean, come off. So, whereas how? Halifax, Viscount Halifax, has a really good record, really good record. And he was in a lot of ways a much more consistent operator, he was more reliable. He was, inverted commas, the better choice at that moment.

Except he wasn't. Clearly not. Except he really, really wasn't. And I think the evolution of that, and we're operating here within a really small time frame. We're talking about a month, you know. I mean, the stuff that goes, boy, that month. And like moments, like the Cuban missile crisis and like these intense moments

where history really does hang in the balance. People do things which change the fate of the whole world. Yeah, without understanding it, it literally is. And what they do literally does. I mean, there's this sort of American obsession, you know, of I want to make the world a better place. You know, you hear kids from three to 93, say it. Well, Winston did that.

It's also a film that, like, really celebrates words and the power of words, and that words can literally change the course of a nation, in the course of humanity. And, you know, that, you know, without getting hokey about it, that's kind of, I would guess, part of the appeal of acting, too. I mean, your art form changes people's lives, or it certainly affects people, and it's very, a lot of it is about the words in the end. Look, absolutely.

And I think that doesn't get quite the, it doesn't get the props that it deserves. I mean, it really is all about the language. There's an enormous amount that goes on screen. Sure. But you need that baseline usually at least yeah well you you do I mean it is you know a script ultimately is the words that you're going to be saying yeah um as you know a film is not necessarily but certainly a script is um do you relish like a nice meaty monologue like there's some great speeches in this is that something that's that's that you can enjoy making a meal out of or is that's well the thing with them is is that you can slice and dice them in different ways and I think that's actually the fun to be had with them. And you, you know,

that's the enjoyment of, you know, friends, Roman's countrymen, is you can cut it. Right. You know, like we're all in on this big joke.

Right. Or you can cut it like, this is going to be completely, you know, convincing because that's the way we do it. Right. You can do them all sorts of different ways. And that is the pleasure of it.

But yeah, there's, there's an idea. that that I picked up from an old documentary that actually for the English speaking people

it is the language itself that is our great art form you know it's not the visual arts it's not the music it's not the this it's not the sculpture for the English speaking peoples of the world the language ended up being the art form and I think there's certainly

you know that's kind of that's a classical idea and I think that's morphed and expanded out because I think, you know, films and rock and roll and stuff like jazz and et cetera, et cetera. There are many new great 20th and now 21st century art. But those are all extensions of what you're talking about anyway. Well, kind of, yeah. I mean, but I put a lot of play on that.

I think that is true. I think the malleability of the English language, the ability to grab it all and draw it into its orbit. Yeah. So when you're on a set like this or any. set. I'm curious, like, is there a conversation? Do you know exactly what you're doing in that scene when you set foot on that set? No. So are you finding it in the course of like running through it a couple times? Yeah, I think so. I think, and I don't think you ever complete finding it personally. Because I don't know that actually, I'm not sure that for me anyway, that's, that's the way it is.

It's more about the variations you can play on something. Right. That's more, you know, it's a more theologian's kind of, you know, vibe. Especially in film as opposed to the theatre, I would think, where film you're giving them options. You want to... Yeah, no, no, that's absolutely true because that's all actually constructed. In fact, I think of it as this way.

The only thing you're ever doing is offering up a proposition. You know what I mean? It's not like this is it or this isn't it or whatever. It's a proposition. Because later on, the director, the editor, take it, they look at it, they go, oh, these kind of fit together well and they do this, dot, dot, dot, dot. so I don't get too hung up on

on that stuff and I do think the difference between the map and the battleground is crucial you know you can go in having read this being all over at top to bottom and knowing knowing and then you can get there

and be across from someone else that has a completely different idea and spend your time going why aren't they just getting this or whatnot or you can get in there Because you have to be in the scene with that same scene. Or you have a director that's different. Or, you know, like this is supposed to be in a room and you're next to a waterfall and you end up, you know, sort of...

Yeah, it's not what you imagined in your hotel room the night before. Like, wait, the desk is supposed to go here. Where's all this certainty gone? So, yeah, I think it does pay to approach it, like, you know, with a certain amount of malleability. Do you have the... I mean, part of the beauty of Gary's career is, like, you know, he's a chameleon like no other. And obviously this film is, I mean, also props to the makeup people, et cetera. It's remarkable what they've done to transform him.

Do you have that same kind of love? Like, do you like transforming yourself to a degree? Have you put yourself in the ring? You know, it's playing different characters, isn't it? And, you know, Gary's work here to do Winston is, it's pretty fantastic, you know. It's pretty, pretty, pretty... Is he doing your River River, David? Making a play for Curb Your Enthusiasm.

Yeah. I can see you on that. You know. Anyway. Anyway, whatevs on? It's extraordinary work. He spent a lot, a lot of time. A lot, a lot of time doing what he delightfully calls kitchen acting,

which is chucking the script down on the bench and then having a walk around and, you know, saying the lines coming back to it and stuff like that. Look, I like, I like. I like, generally speaking, being on a set and doing scenes. I like trying to figure them out. Yeah. I watched again, the other one I wanted to go back to this week,

just because I love it. And it's also an important film in your career that not enough people saw as Mississippi Grind, which is a great piece of work from both you and Ryan Reynolds, Fleck and Bowden are the directors, amazing. Boy, you're good. You've got a brain on you, man. I legitimately love this stuff.

Yeah. So my question, I mean, you're the lead in that. Ryan Reynolds is not the lead in that. No, no, that's my first time I ever got, and the only might I add. First and the only time I've ever been a lead in American film, I was very proud of it. Did you do like this? Oh, no, hold on, yes. No, well, that's not out yet.

Okay, I'm looking forward to that one too. That sounds interesting. You know, that is, and I sinned by a mission there, that is, yeah, that I think that's a beautiful piece. I'm incredibly proud of it. in the late-in-air film. That's awesome. So I guess my question about that, there were a couple things that struck me in that.

I mean, it's like, Mississippi Grandy, I feel like there's a film about, like, the highs and lows of, like, addiction that can come in any form. Like, you know, even just, like, seeing where Jerry goes in terms of, like, the excitement he gets, the rush he gets, and then just the pathetic, sad, you know, cycle of a...

of a gambler. It's heart-wrecking. Yeah, no. Jerry, look, I love Jerry. I do love Jerry. But, yeah, but it's, yeah, man, great end on that film. I love the end of that film. I love the end of that film. I love the end of that film. One of my favorite ever. See, go on. No, I guess my question is also about the fact, so you mentioned you also got to play the lead in this other upcoming one. And there's, like, kind of this other narrative about you right now, which is, like, bad guy guy. You know, he's like doing, and you are. You've done a bunch of, yeah, guys, and you do them really well. Thank you, kindly. Is there, how conscious of that kind of narrative are you? Well, I mean, I'd be, I mean, I'd be deaf, dumb, and blind if I wasn't conscious of it. Sure. How, how, I mean, I don't care that much.

I look at it that, I mean, first of all, it's, it's a pretty decent common. to be asked to play the bad guys. Yeah, and to be fair, the kinds of films that you're being asked to put bad guys in are like the ones you want to be in if it's Star Wars or potentially a Marvel film, etc. Yeah. This is good. But, you know,

I am more interested in the films themselves kind of working and whatnot in them. And look, I think the reason people have started to sort of flip about this one in terms of, you know, my business. in it. It's because it's a context that they're not, you know, it's not a, it's not a box that they, you know, they equate. Yes. You can present yourself so, so well. You get to dress nicely. You don't have a evil cape in this one. Well, yeah, I know. I mean, I know this runs the risk of

being glib, but yeah, it is acting. You know, it is the job I do. I kind of expect sometimes Orson Crennick to walk in with a flourish. There you go. But on the Star Wars tip, I know that was like a special one. I mean, it's always a special opportunity to participate in. How can it not be? It's Star Wars. I mean, it's Star Wars. I was kind of being flip about the costume, but it was a great look that that character had.

Oh, yeah. Is that one of your, you know, more notable looks as a character and that's... Oh, I mean, how could... I mean, of course. I mean, that... Look, I mean, I've had the good fortune to work with some really, really good costume designers, some really good directors, some really good actors, etc. But the secret of Star Wars that they were able to employ makes that costume really extra

special. And there is a secret to Star Wars. There is. And what are you talking about? What do you mean by that? There's a secret to the costumes in Star Wars. Or talking about a literal, like, a seam they put in? Or are you talking about it? I'm not going to, I'm not going to eludicate. But there is, there's a basis on which they operate, which is why they're such genius costumes. Okay, without trying to pry that out of you. You also are probably the only actor I can think of in the last 25 years to share a bunch of scenes with Darth Vader,

whoever that is in that costume. Is that, because, yeah, it's interesting. A bunch of your scenes are with a guy in a Darth Vader costume. Who's not just a guy? Yeah, I don't only work with, you know, I mean, it's going to be Gary Oldman or Darth Vader. Or the ghost of Peter Cushing. I mean, that's right. Or Kyle Chandler.

I'm only going for the absolute cream in whatever, whatever medium it is, whatever film type, that's it. Is that? You can keep the curds in way. I'll take the cream. Okay, let's go to another icon then, Spielberg. Yeah. I mean, wow. I'm seeing as new in The Post this weekend

Oh you are, I can't wait They're starting to screen it Yeah, I can't wait So just give me a sense of sort of We haven't seen much of this film I don't need the details of the film But just in terms of the magic that is Spielberg Well, I mean look

The thing, you know, about From my experience about working with Stephen Spielberg Is that guy is an audience like you You're never going to get an audience like Steven Spielberg You are never going to have an audience like that that is an audience that just makes you so happy to work for and he's got I mean he's dexterity the thing you don't expect about him is how much he finds it like

you know he's got his battle map but then he's got his battleground and on the battleground like boom he's like he is the Napoleon of filmmaking That guy can be on a set and just change it all up completely. He's got a crew that are insane. Like they are, in terms of what they can do, the speed at which they can do it, I've never experienced anything like it. Now, Ridley Scott's got an amazing crew, like amazing crew. These guys have, and in fact, when you think about it,

the two of them have been able to operate. in contemporary Hollywood studio system for longer with more success than anyone else that comes to my mind and that might be my ignorance. It's hard for me to think of anyone else that belongs in that path and on. I've worked with both of those guys.

Both of their crews are extraordinary. But Stephen, if I may call him that, is just a delight to work for. And the other thing is, you don't, they're just really, they're great guys. They're just really. He's still excited to be there. He loves it. Yeah.

He loves it. He was put on this earth to do that. He loves it. Yeah. And his knowledge is post encyclopedic. I mean, it's beyond encyclopedic. He still has, you know, a passionate engagement with a, um, a. classical period of Hollywood filmmaking

that is actually the strongest life force of the whole business. I mean, you know, we have divergence and we change styles and this and that. But actually, if you go back to certain filmmakers at certain times, you're Billy Wilders, you're Howard Hawks, your Hitchcock's, you will find there a clarity of storytelling

and an effectiveness that, you know, you can do it. a lot worse than sort of emulate that sort of style. I mean, it's a blueprint. It's weird to, yeah, I just saw, I don't know if you saw that new documentary about him. Which one? There's like, it's,

the Hitchcock True Foe one. Oh, no, not Hitchcock, who I also. Oh, no, no, no, I've been out of town. It's amazing. It's also amazing just to watch, I mean, look, I, again, I like my entire generation, the generation that's come after, we all grew up with Spielberg. And somehow watching it, I still feel like,

oh, I underappreciated his impact. Oh, oh, look. You can't, you can't, yeah, it's hard to overstate. Look, that's what's so exciting about Ready Player 1 is this kind of Steven Spielberg sampling Steven Spielberg. It's like James Brown sampling James Brown. If you came up in the classic period of, you know, hip-hop, if you grew up in the, yeah, it's, it's, are there directors that, that, whether it's like you have the shirt list of people you want to work with, But beyond that, the directors that, like, you feel like you would vibe with, that, like, you feel like that, like, their sensibility seems like my sensibility.

And I just want to know what it's like to be on that set to see, like, how they run a set. Yeah, there's a couple of them. There's a couple of them. I mean, look, I don't want to do a shout out to them and then not get a job from them. I'm trying to help you. Yeah. They're just not aware. They want to hear the love, and then they'll reciprocate the love.

Well, okay. I mean, there's a couple of them. I mean, Tarantino, I think, has. I mean, have you seen death-proof? Yeah, of course. I mean, come on. That is just so balls out. I have never, I mean, and by the way,

it's, and I'm looking at the poster of Big Trouble in Little China. Kurt has never been better. I mean, those scenes in the end, when he's wounded, and the delight in that performance is extraordinary. And then that stuff on the car,

I mean, I've never seen anything like that. I have never seen anything like that. You know, you look at the, fight scene in Unbock, right? And you go, oh my God, that is a fight scene, right? Everything else just kind of looks like, yeah, whatever. You look at a car sequence,

well, particularly you look at a human and a car, because Frankenheimer is pretty damn fine. No, I'm thinking of Ronan, you know, for the car sequence. Yeah, awesome. Yeah, great movie.

I think, yeah, I'd like to cook a dish with it. you're just talking about the stunts you're just talking about the stunts you look at Jackie Brown I mean that's I love Jackie Brown I love that you're saying like the two that people don't usually ever talk about oh well they're idiots you know what do you want you know

like most they can't see look you got to forget the you know the cocoa pops and the fruit loops you know we all know and they're great they taste great I'm not talking about no what I'm saying is that like the thing like it's easy to see

why people hold them both up and they are great but the yeah but anyway you know i guess it's horses for courses and whatnot too and i'll try not to insult more of your audience as i go on but for mine no jackie brown and jacky brown for a long time but there's something about the delight there's something about the delight the freedom in um in in death proof yeah and the end it's hard to see a film that ever can end better Like, then, boom, that moment. I mean, that's an end. It's tough to end a film.

Yeah. Tough to end a song. Tough to end a book. Tough to end it now. Oh, I should end it now, but I want to. One more. It's over. It's slowly backs out of the room.

Release them. Yeah, release them. Am I going to see you in a Marvel movie? Boy, I hope so. The Mike just went dead. What did? We were laughing. everything was good

and then he turned I'll put it this way if you were going to do a Marvel movie I would think Fleck and Bowden would be people you might want to work with Yeah I love that they're doing that Marvel movie Right That you seem to be referring to

That I would be very very happy To be doing that Marvel movie You know Dr Doom I was going to say I've heard that you love Dr. Doom Oh yeah Dr. Doom's the greatest comic character of all time. I can't say I've read that much Dr. Doom.

You don't need to read much. It's a small piece, right? Like the bit that deals with the beginning of Doom is pretty small. Yeah. It's just good. It's just really, really good. So I've heard you mention this before. Have you made because Noah Hawley of

Fargo fame is developing a Dr. Doom movie? Yeah, no, I'm aware of all this. Do you tell Team Mendelssohn let's set a meeting, let's talk? I mean, none of that gets done. None of it. Well, because I'm, look, I'm an old-fashioned actor. You know what I mean? In that, you know, that's, there's that phone ringing, you know, and I, like, you know. You're not going to take out a marquee on Hollywood Boulevard and say, like, I don't know. Maybe I'll switch up my style. I don't know. But whatever, you know, whatever it is, it's been working thus far.

Yes, clearly. But, but no, no, no. Look, I'm sure they would have already got there. I'm sure they've already, you know, I'm sure. sure they've already closed in on some ideas with that. I'm just curious like... And that's a great role. Well, that's what I'm going to say. So what is the appeal of just like, forgetting like the practicalities of this ever could happen or not, who knows. But like, what's

so appealing about that character? About Victor. Yeah. Victor. Victor, the thing that's really appealing about Victor is the damage, the trauma, the loss of the family, right? And the wrong done to him.

then the takeover, right? The revenge, the takeover, and then the protectiveness of Latvia. Latvaria, my... Oh, wow, you just like... Uh-oh. Uh-oh. Cold War shocker.

Wrapped in that Cold War vibe. And there's just something about the combination about that. What actually makes him great is his caring bit. Yeah. You know what I mean? That's what's great about Dr. Dune. And I just like him. You know, I've never particularly, you know, that's yours.

Yeah, I mean, the, the traditional surrounding that he has, right? Not, don't particularly do it for him, you know what I mean? Meaning the little, like the castle and the hills like that kind of thing? No, no, no, you have to, you have to be more, um, no, the context in which he appears. Right. Right. Right. The, you know, that's not really, doesn't really do it for me.

But he himself. I love. All right, we're going to make that happen. I'm going to make it happen because I'm curious about this project. If you make it happen, I'll give you commission. There it is. My new career. It's always good to see you, man.

I'm such a, as you know, I'm a great admirer of your work. Are we getting better at this? I think so. Yeah, I feel like. I think we've established a rapport now. Yeah, I feel like it. We're taking this on the road. I feel like I'm shortening my career rapidly every time we speak.

Not at all. Darkest Hour is the film. a beautiful piece of work and congratulations on it man it's it's uh you know hopefully we'll talk a bunch through this silly award season you've got the first edition of Willow

signs the Marvel comic by both Val and Ron Howard oh man Val signed it Peck Peck Peck I can't believe this you've got a great nerd offer this is excellent you're welcome here anytime man thank you

it's good to see you sad, confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't personally do this by Josh. Goodbye.

Summer movies, Hello, Fall. I'm Anthony Devaney. And I'm his twin brother, James. We host Raiders of the Lost Podcast, the ultimate movie podcast, and we are ecstatic to breakdown late summer and early fall releases. We have Leonardo DiCaprio leading a revolution in one battle after another. Timothy Salome playing power ping pong in Marty Supreme. Let's not forget Emma Stone and Jorgos Lanthamos' Bougonia. Dwayne Johnson's coming for that Oscar

in The Smashing Machine, Spike Lee and Denzel teaming up again, plus Daniel DeLuis's return from retirement. There will be plenty of blockbusters to chat about two. Tron Aries looks exceptional plus Mortal Mortal Kombat 2 and Edgar writes The Running Man starring Glenn Powell. Search for Raiders of the Lost

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