Happy Sad Confused - Bradley Whitford

Episode Date: April 28, 2021

Way before "The West Wing", Bradley Whitford was sneaking around in your pop culture sub conscious, or at least was for Josh. On this episode of "Happy Sad Confused", Bradley joins Josh for the first time to chat about this journey from character actor to the star of one of the most beloved TV shows of all time ("The West Wing" of course). Bradley can currently be seen in season 4 of "The Handmaid's Tale". For all of your media headlines remember to subscribe to The Wakeup newsletter here! And listen to THE WAKEUP podcast here! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now. Today on Happy, Sad, Confused, Bradley Whitford, from the West Wing to Handmaid's Tale. Hey, guys, I'm Josh Harrow. It's welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Yes, thrilled to say, a first-time guest on this week's edition of Happy, Sad Confused, Mr. Bradley Whitford, someone I have a great deal of respect for for the way he is. carved out an amazing career in TV and film, for his good humor, for his good politics that I subscribe to, and just for being a part of the pop culture landscape for, I don't know what, like over 30 years, actually, if you get right down to it, this is one thing I discovered in digging into his resume was, oh yeah, Bradley Whitford, Shore has been in these things in recent years from the West Wing, and then in more recent times, things like Get Out and Handmaid's Tale, but I was digging into the movies I kind of grew up.

up with and realized, oh my gosh, he's been in everything from like Philadelphia to adventures and babysitting. He really sent of a woman. He just popped up in so many great movies prior to him kind of hitting it big with his association with the West Wing and Aaron Sorkin. So a lot to dig into in this conversation. He is a very quick-witted, funny, smart guy and like I said, have a great deal of respect for him. So this was a thrill to get a chance to get to know Bradley in this edition of the podcast. He is promoting the new season. He is promoting the new season sent him Handmaid's Tale, which drops this week. And he, of course, joined, I think a couple seasons ago.

He won an Emmy in his first go-round on Handmaid's Tale. And Handmaid is now in its fourth season. And, of course, you guys should check that out on Hulu. The acting doesn't get any better than folks like Elizabeth Moss and Bradley. So check that out. And I hope you guys enjoy this conversation with Bradley today. Other things to mention, I teased this last week in a matter of hours or a day or two, you'll be able to watch my conversation with Michael B. Jordan about his new Amazon film without

remorse. Really proud of that one and always a big treat to catch up with Michael B. The man is kind of on top of the world. I mean, top five movie stars on the planet maybe right now is Michael B. Jordan. You know, it's hard to think of people that have more clout right now and are mixing it up like he is. Creed and Black Panther, you know, emerging in things like Friday Night Lights and Fruitvale station. Again, a guy I have so much respect for, and a guy I've known for quite a bit. So that was a real treat to get to know, or not to get to know I know him already, but to really get a chance to dig into some of the stuff with him for MTV. So look for that. On my social media, I'll tease it out on Joshua Horowitz, but you can always look it up on MTV News's YouTube

page. And yeah, that's one that you should definitely not miss. Other housekeeping things. So I have news, which may seem like sad news, but it's kind of necessary news, and it's more of an evolutionary news, if that's a word. So we have had such an amazing time. And by we, I mean, me and the folks at Comedy Central, a pretty small team in the last about a year, a little bit over a year, making stir crazy. We made, I think, about 50 episodes. And it was just, it was such a great focus for me personally in the middle of this madness of 2020 of the pandemic of frankly, going through personal stuff and losing my dad in the middle of 2020 to be able to focus on a new venture like Stir Crazy and work with the talented Comedy Central folks and welcome some of my

favorite actors and comedians to a silly format like Stir Crazy was such a joy. When we launched it, we knew this wasn't this wasn't maybe necessarily a sustainable thing forever. It's a Zoom conversation. The whole nature of the thing is we're all going stir crazy. For a variety of reasons, stir crazy, I'm sad to say, is over. So, shed a tear, pour one out for Stir Crazy. We went out, I will say, with a doozy. If you saw the Sebastian Stan Anthony Mackey episode, over a million views on YouTube, a gazillion views on TikTok, I think.

I don't know. So many people sent it to me, and I was staggered by how many people were enjoying it. So, like I said, I'm endlessly proud of what we did on Star Crazy, and the guest list speaks for itself, and I'm so proud of, again, the small band of crazy folks at Comedy Central. I'll give a shout out to Alan Miller, who is my producer and was just remarkable in helping to kind of formulate this show and just keep it running week after week. So the era of Sir Crazy is sadly at an end. That being said, you know me. I'm not going to retire my shenanigans.

They will live on in other forms, in other ways. And I'm not ready today to announce something, but literally in a couple days, I have something that will scratch the itch for you guys looking for my shenanigans. So I will just say stay tuned. And it's going to be a big, exciting new thing, again, with some folks that you love. We're launching, if all goes going to plan, I'm going to knock on wood in my apartment next week. So next week, a new kind of series with Josh Shanagans with Celebrities, which is I know what a lot of you guys enjoy me doing. So stay tuned. And RIP is through crazy.

Who knows? Maybe it will live on another day. another time, another place. You never know. It's a weird, wild media world. Anyway, that's the happy, sad, confused news about stir crazy. But let's get to the happy conversation today with Mr. Bradley Whitford, starring in season four of Handmaid's Tale, love chatting and getting to know Bradley, and I know you will love getting to know him, too. Here he is, Bradley Whitford. Bradley Whitford, welcome to the Happy Second Fused podcast, first-time guest, long-time fan.

Thanks for being here, man. It's a pleasure to be here, Josh. So, you know, I do my copious research on nothing, if not professional. I was seeing here. Yeah, well, you'll be dissuaded of that pretty soon. But I was watching an interview with you probably a year and a half ago before the shit hit the fan. You were opining about wanting to spend some more time. I'm at home and traveling too much.

Would you like to reevaluate said statements? Oh my God. Look, I am an obnoxiously lucky, privileged human being. And, you know, I loved spending so much time at home. I loved, I have grown kids who I had extra time with in a totally non-self-conscious way where we were just living together, which is so much more powerful than doing special things together. The dogs, slowing down, and again, believe me, I understand how lucky I am.

but reducing the chaos of travel was really amazing. Then when I did, and again, I was a lucky person who could work. After really enjoying this time with my wife and my kids and my dogs, when I went to go back to Handmaid's Tale, usually one of the wonderful things about the job is it's such an interesting, part and uh but the show is about june you know it's about lizzie's character so you go up and you do these amazing scenes and then you fly back well this time you know you have to you have to quarantine um and it involved two trips up so it was a full month of they're serious about the quarantine up

there you know sure what is the etiquette because you kind of like have like a head start on many of the rest of us like i'm just literally as of like yesterday i'm now fully back two weeks out for my second shot so happy about it and starting to entertain like seeing people in some you know in safe ways like are you hugging your castmates are you like what does it approximate what it used to be in these kind of problems on the advice of my attorney uh i'm gonna take the fifth on that no um you know we talked about i you know we did the west wing reunion uh during this time uh with uh all the protocols in place and it was heartbreaking to not be able to, you know, throw your arms around Allison. I mean, that's where you really felt it the most. And it does make you realize that the joy, I feel this, I've always felt this, but the older I get the more I feel it. There's a lot of stuff that I've shot that I really, I have no interest in

watching it. It's more about the process of making it. And we were actually talking on the West Wing thing about how, you know, when we were doing West Wing, we didn't have these. I'm going to sound like an old actor, but it's always sort of heartbreaking because when I used to say cut, that was when the fun began um and uh you know the teasing and the flirting and the and the connecting and now you say cut and uh heads go down yeah yeah heads heads go down to the phone um but uh i think everybody feels frustrated not to be able to have that sort of set experience. And I did notice it on Handmaid's Tale, which is it's a brutal show. The material is really quite brutal. And it is one of the sweetest sets I have ever been on in my life, which I think is, it's partially

the people who run the show, Warren Littlefield, Bruce Miller. It's Elizabeth Moth, Moss is one of the least pretentious, sweetest, most brilliant human beings I've ever met. But the contrast on this set, you know, it's like, you know, you expect that like the AD, you know, these Canadians and they are genetically, stereotypically the sweetest people on the planet. And, you know, It'll be like, okay, I don't want to rush you, but I think we should get the nooses on the girls. It would be a good thing. Yeah, I think it would be, no, spread your legs because we can't see the commander. Sorry, sorry, I'm sorry.

I mean, so could you imagine going the other route? Yeah, like, I think of things, yeah, like, you know, was Requiem for a, for a dream, a fun set for anybody? I mean, how do you get through something like that? And I can't imagine. Yeah. Listen, everybody thinks handmaids must be really, and it's extraordinary. Lizzie, again, it was just so impressive to me. I'm not, I have the job.

I'm not kissing anybody. The performance she is doing, I tease her, it's, you know, Sophie's Choice, the series. Like, it just is a Dante poem where you're trying to. to find the bottom uh she is the most emotionally uh she can access all of that stuff there's you know it's not like hey guys quiet quiet on the set right you know lizzie needs us to be quiet she's like got her earpod in and she's given notes uh you know in a recent cut listening to some music and then we're like hey hey lizzie we're rolling and it's like you know Is that what you mean when you say least pretentious?

Because, yeah, like, is it the trappings? Is it sort of like, I need my space, I need to focus? Or are there other things you're referring to when you're talking about pretension from an actor? And we've seen the stereotypes depicted over the years and everyone has a different path, you know? I love Daniel Day Lewis as much as the next guy, but like. Oh, yeah, but he was eaten with his toes when he,

when he, you know, at lunch. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And for some people, Some people, that's the way to do it. My inclination, if this makes any sense. And I realize, like, I will always say as a joke, if somebody says something nice about me, I'll say, I stand behind none of my work.

It's easier that way. And it's a joke, partially because I'm embarrassed to be an actor. I always got to do that. have to embrace it. Yeah. You know what? There's Screen Actors Guild, you know, awards, they'll, you know, it'll be like, hi, I'm

Kathy Bates. I grew up here and I am proud to be an actor. I'm one of those where I'm like, you know, my name is Brad Whitford. I'm from Madison, Wisconsin. I've been doing this for 35 years. I'm still not proud of it. Still on the fence. Yeah.

It's kind of excruciating. We're all clowns. You know this, right? Yeah. I wear makeup for a little. Thank you. But honestly, I am better off if I am constantly undercutting the importance of what I'm doing, of what I'm doing. There's a couple of differences between good actors and great actors that I've seen in other actors. When you're standing right there with one of these people who's kind of blowing you away, there's a distinct sense that this isn't school. This is recess, even in a very difficult, emotionally heartbreaking,

performance there's there's a freedom and and a sense of play that anything could happen that's like that anything could happen so even if you're doing a you know a scene that is i i mean there's a an incredible actor Hank warrenets uh who has done a lot of shakespeare a lot of regional shakespeare and I worked with him when I was young and he was playing Henry 5 and I've never seen anybody fuck around more off stage just, you know,

in order to get there. There's a sense of mischief that I think no matter what the material gets you to an interesting place. Mark Rylance is like that. You know who that reminds me with the way you're talking?

I always hear Anthony Hopkins talk about it that way. He seems like the most like whimsical like it's just he totally minimal what he's doing like I'm there to say the words and yeah and he's actually you know it's it may feel when you're looking at you know a genius like Hopkins uh it may feel like false modesty but I I think tactical I think it's I think it's it's it's obviously his instinct and it's honest um but I think it keeps him in a place I like it is not help I I make a joke uh anybody who's worked with me has heard

me uh make this joke uh where understandably the AD or the director will go come on guys come on we got to go at which point I will go guys let's take the joy out of it and get it done like yeah yeah let's just remember this is supposed to be very unpleasant yeah yeah um and i i don't find that uh like a helpful uh helpful way to do it i'm sure there are people who i have worked with who are like just shut that fucking clown up um you know i'll take your way it sounds a little bit more pleasurable and clearly it gets the work done yeah yeah and there is no one thing i have very strong feelings about is um uh these people who think they need to be pricks when they're directing like when a director's it's like first do no harm you know what i don't need from a director when you know i'm making a public spectacle of myself for them to reinforce the fact that they are scared yeah like we're all scared nobody knows how to do this nobody has any fucking idea you know was i was i

shooting get out you know we're like after after a take where we going yeah you know we nailed that take this is going to be amazing like you're like oh god I hope this works yeah um so and all of the great directors that I have worked with whether it's Alan Pekula or Jordan Peel or, you know, Spielberg, you know, they're not monstrous pricks. You don't, that's just not helpful. You know, so you mentioned some of the directors you've worked with. And I, you know, I'm very, did I name drop? No, no, this is, that's the podcast.

Did I mention Clint Eastwood? That's the podcast for this. I was going to bring them up if you did it. So you're one ahead of me. But like, I've seen a ton of your work over the years. And when I went back and looked at the resume, like, I kind of realized like, oh, wait, you're kind of like a forest gumpian figure in the late 80s to late 90s. So there was like a 10-year stretch even before West Wing where I know you'd been doing

theater for a bit, et cetera, but then like you get in this run with like this kind of crazy, like these movies that are really kind of like integral to my growing up, frankly. Starting with, I mean, this is a random one that what you didn't mention, I watched the opening scene the other day of Adventures and Babysitting in which Elizabeth Shoe is dancing. her heart out, dreaming of a life with you serenating a photo of you. Chris Columbus directing, Elizabeth Shoe pining

after you. What are your memories? Oh my God. You know, Chris is one of the sweetest guys in the world. I was absolutely in love with Lisa's shoe. And I think,

am I crazy? Is that Chris's first directing movie? I believe it is. Yeah, I think, I don't think I'm making this up, but I think I was there the first day. And Chris had written, he had sold some big scripts, I know, Goonies or something like that. But he was directing for the first time.

And he very, I think he very conscientiously had his like shot list, and had everything storyboarded. And I forget who the DP was, but I just remember him showing, like, the storyboards to the DP and the DP gone. Yeah, yeah. Aren't you cute?

First time director, yeah. Yeah, oh, that's sweet. You storyboarded it. But, yeah, what year was that? That's actually, it's 85, I want to say. No, it's after that. Is it? 86 87 could be it doesn't matter that was my prick phase I had a long prick phase I do I do

remember what was the height of your prick phase what was the height yeah well I think I proved in in pretty quick succession I there was a revenge of the nerds to colon nerds in Paradise and Billy Madison where I showed really incredible range because I could play a prick and I could also play a prick on vacation. It can be any environment. I will bring my prickiness to it. I will bring the, you know, the white douchebag wherever you call. You also can bring it to the dinner table with Al Pacino and suffer the consequences.

Yes. Yeah, that was intense. So that's Martin Brest directing. That's a heavyweight. That's Al Pacino going on to win the Oscar for scent of a woman. And you're just tearing him apart. You're kind of just really giving him the speech. And he's kind of silently taking it until his breaking point.

And then you almost lose your role. Well, you know what people always say that they always say, wow, that looks so realistic when he threw you against the wall. You know, and people will say, did that hurt? And I have a little bit of a genetic problem that. I produced kidney stones, kind of like a Pez dispenser. And yeah, it's a gift. And that was one of my first ones. And I had just had lithotripsy where they zap them.

And they put a stent up your slung that goes, I bet you haven't talked about this on the podcast before. This is the first. That goes from your kidney to your bladder. And if it's, I've had them several times. If it sits on a nerve, you basically feel like your balls are cavities that are chewing on tinfoil. Another image, I doubt, has come up on the podcast. Well, animated afterwards for the case. Yeah.

So, but this was a big movie. And this was, you know, Al Pacino. and Martin Prest and, you know, the show had to go on. So, like, I didn't tell anybody, but every time, and he was very soft here. Like, Al knows what he's doing. And I would throw myself against it. But every time I threw myself against it, this stent would shift on this nerve in my balls and gave me, I think, a very real realistic reaction.

thought in your eyes the tears coming down well congratulations the secret word on today's show was schlong and you got it in the first 20 minutes so yeah so you'll get your prize in the mail thank you so much i i'm a huge alan pacula fan i'm glad you mentioned him you were in i think maybe an overlooked one uh presumed innocence a pretty effective uh crime thriller and it's that was uh that was an incredible experience that was like the first big uh movie bonnie I remember, who is so underrated. Oh, my God, is she brilliant? And I remember she said my little nephew, he's so cute

is coming to the set. And it was this cute little kid who was saying he was actually going to do a movie. and his name was McCauley Calkin. He was the little, like, five-year-old. But, yeah, that was amazing. Alan was this elegant, fastidious, kind guy. I always remember, he was one of those guys who wore comfortable shoes,

but the way he stepped, the way he carried himself was so careful. that the shoes seemed like they never wore down. Yeah, yeah. And yeah, that was intense. God, Raul, Julia, man. He's so good in that movie. And I got to just be with him. And he is so free and such a joy.

I just loved him, loved him to death. Yeah, but I mean, again, this run is kind of insane. So, like, they're sent to a woman in 92. You mentioned Clint, a perfect world for those that haven't seen it. That's another one that kind of like people missed. Some people missed. It came right after Unforgiven and it is amazing. Half of that movie, I think is brilliant.

I think actually, again, I stand behind none of my work. You think it's the Costner stuff that works and it's the... The Costner stuff, um, um, um, is is really amazing. You know, working, I realize I have a sort of, ever since Clint Wet, kind of right-wing Republican, he was very, very sweet working with him. And, you know, his thing, notoriously,

he does not say action or cut. Scared the horses, apparently. That was the whole thing. That was the thing. It would scare the horses. There was a funny thing that happened with him where I was on the set and I was reading the New York Times and he's sitting in his chair with his heart beating once every three minutes and it was right after Unforgiven and the arts and leisure section is back

when there were newspapers, if you remember. By the way, I was reading a newspaper on a set last year, and this like 25-year-old actress walks by looking at her phone and looks at me and goes, whoa, old school. I let my print subscription finally end just last year during COVID, and I was like one of the last of a dying room. Oh, I know. I attempted to bring it back. I miss it terribly. I know. I know. But I'm sitting next to Clint. I'm looking at this,

And the headline is Clint Eastwood's vision of America. And I go, hey, hey, Clint, did you see this? And he looks at it and he goes, vision of America. It's like 10 years ago, I was working with an orangutan. Now they think I'm Gandhi. Good perspective, yeah. But you know what? He does like the one take stuff, but there was a real sweetness about him.

he was mistreated and disrespected coming up. And certainly, I, you know, I was just a young actor, a very young actor then. And he wanted to make sure that he would check in to make sure that we're okay. If we needed another one, he'd give us one. He was very sweet. Now, did you have a relationship with Sorkin prior to West Wing? because you had been in a few good men. Yeah, this is a funny thing.

People will say, like, how did you meet Aaron Sorkin? I did Revenge of the Nerds, too, calling Nerds in Paradise. And Tim Busfield was on that. And Tim and I sort of bonded over theater. We went to the one-act festival. at Louisville while we were shooting and we became really good friends. And then he took over for Tom Hulse and a few good men.

And then he was leaving. And he said to Aaron, I think this guy would be good with your material. And I went in in the kind of Kevin Bacon part and understudied the lead. And then it was an extraordinary thing Aaron did because usually, when you're replacing in a long running show, it goes to no disrespect to me, a fading television star. And instead, Aaron really stepped up and I got this part

and I had my dressing room at the music box theater was bigger than my apartment. I was spending a lot of time there. You're like, wait, I should. I used to sleep there. I moved my dog. in there because we had they had a 24-hour

dormant then. So I just moved in. Who was the this was one of those productions I'm just so sad. I just wasn't the right age to see at the time. But like who was Jessup? I know Stephen Lang played him at one point. Do you remember who was?

Ron Perlman. Oh. Yeah. There's a power to that guy. That's amazing. Cuba. So I know you've answered and every possible thing on Westing.

I guess my broad question on your experience, playing Josh on that is like, I mean, I remember what it was like just from the outside looking in. Like, it's so rare when a show is at the center of like a cultural and political nexus, right? Like, it just never happens. And you had it kind of to a different degree and get out. But like, do you remember kind of like what it felt like in the eye of the storm at its height when like West Wing was like the Game of Thrones at the moment where people were kind of

obsessed with it, and it was driving cultural conversation, and it was, but it was fun to watch. I mean, it kind of was clicking all, it was checking all the boxes. Yeah, it was intense. I mean, the farther we get away from it, the luckier we all feel. I mean, that was, it was a miracle.

It's, you know, the thing going on, you cannot, um overstate the relentless obligation of uh like here you're doing a show Aaron what Aaron did will never happen again yeah at 20 hours written by like one guy like 22 hours the equivalent of 11 feature films in nine months that is uh verbally complex emotionally complex civically complex So it was just this sort of, you get so close. The cast, I think, got so close. We were all becoming known at the same moment. You're all going through this war, this kind of Sisy.

You know, like, keep going, keep going. It was relentless. And then, you know, we, We didn't think we would be taken seriously. I don't think Aaron thought we would be taken seriously. People mistake, people think that Aaron wants to serve everybody, their civic vegetables. And that's, he's actually wary of that.

The reason that show worked is not because Aaron wanted to teach us. It was this arena, which was full of conflict, full of theatricality. And it was the collision of like C-SPAN with Aaron's impatience need to entertain. Totally. We kid him about this. Like Aaron writes, other people said this about him. like he's on the first date. He's like throwing the kitchen sink.

He's like afraid like you're going to get bored. Like don't get bored. It's going to be okay. Absolutely terrified. And he's like, oh, I'm going to give you, I'm going to give you everything. This is going to be, you know, it'll be thoughtful. There's going to be a huge emotional payoff.

He's going to slip on his shoes like it's, you know, a cratfall. So it's, it's the collision of those. those things that made it work yeah then something happened when 9-11 happened we all thought um in the wake of that is there a place for a show about wisecracking you know clintonian uh democrats but then because democrats had no branch of the government the only democrats who existed pathetically were fictional. And we became this kind of alternative. It actually worked the other way. But yeah, it was it was so much fun. And, you know, for a show to happen to have that kind of cultural relevance. It's a miracle to have a creative experience like that, let alone for it to

be culturally relevant. And I've had a couple of those. But one thing is, the impulse is not to teach. I can't imagine the trucks, truck full of money that Peacock has just all offered Aaron to just give them like a 10 episode return. And I know you're, you guys are asked about it all the time. And I guess Aaron, thankfully has a, a heavy plate, you know, a loaded up plate. But, and I guess the conundrum, as you alluded to, is kind of like, what does that even look like today? What does West Wing look like today? And it's a hard nut to crack like what story to tell in 2021, given what we've just all been through for the last eight years.

Oh, my God. Yeah, I mean, look, before Trump, I always said the fakes thing about West Wing is we had rational Republicans. Right. Now it's, you know, now that Republicans are basically just, you know, a, you know, fascist theater group, a street theater group. But I do think it might, you know, you, first of all, I can. back then i would you know there was talk of the show going on mostly uh we lost john spencer which made made it feel like it needed to end but also i would always say like uh you got to get out before your banana turns brown um you you really you really do want uh want to be out the song again

What are we talking about? Yeah. Before your schlong turns. But the, I think it would be interesting. It couldn't, we can't go back to the West Wing, you know. But I think it would be interesting to have those characters in another way confront the world as it is now. I think that might be interesting. Did, you know, you alluded to like another kind of incident, instance like, like,

since like West Wing, which is, of course, I guess, Get Out, which kind of captured the cultural political zeitgeist when it came out and justifiably so. What Jordan was able to achieve is remarkable. Did he talk to you about, like, in some ways he's kind of cashing in on your persona a bit, like in terms of like the likeability of Josh Lyman that we've like enjoyed for 155 hours. We're like, we're predisposed, despite some of the douchebags you've played, admittedly you talked about.

In recent years, it feels like we're like, okay oh he's we trust this guy he's a good guy did did you have a sense that that was kind of like part of the game of that yeah yeah i mean um uh you know he's he's taking you know a a a you know cultural semi iconic you know prototypical uh white liberal uh white liberal He was absolutely playing with it. I remember talking with him once about this very thing. And I was talking about, like, you were really trying to turn that on your head. He said, I just thought it would be funny to see Josh Lyman take the top of someone's head off.

He's right, by the way. But that was an amazing thing. Man, that movie, like, I remember reading the script right where I'm sitting right now. and going, wow, like it was a forehead knocker. Like, why hasn't this been done recently? But it was dangerous. Like, you know, the problem with storytelling of any kind, I find, that makes you really insecure, justifiably insecure,

is the problem is if something is just off, it's even more excruciating. It's like a sour note. And I remember reading this and going to my wife and saying, oh, my God, this is amazing. And by the way, when I, like, I would do anything for Jordan Peel. I was his biggest fan. I thought, you know, when I heard it was a Jordan Peel movie,

I thought, oh, my God, he's acting in it. I was really upset because all I ever wanted to do was something, a Key & Peel skit. And when I read that, I was like, oh, I knew I was going to do it just because Jordan had anything to do with it. But I remember thinking, man, if you get this, you know, kind of charming, there's some humor in there, racist, wrong, that could be a problem. I have never in my life had the experience. I remember I had to loop, and Jordan, I said, Jordan called me about looping, and I said,

how's the movie? And he's like, I think it's kind of really good. And I was, which is very unlike Jordan. Sure. And I was teasing him and saying, well, you know, you spent, you know, what, two years doing this, your career is on the line. You have to drink the Kool-Aid. I'm sure he's like, no, like, I think people are really kind of responding. And he didn't want me to see it. until i saw it in a theater and i went up to sundance and uh it was a midnight screening and i think because people initially thought of jordan as a community it was raucous but i have never seen the souffle rise like that i i couldn't believe it i was i was shocked It was disturbing, what it was saying was so complex and fundamental.

And Jordan would say, you know, it's funny because people often say, because I've done a couple of horror movies, they'll say, you know, what is it you love about the horror genre? I'm not somebody who's like, oh, you know, Saw 7 is coming out. I can't wait to see it. And Jordan asked me, he's like, do you love horror movies? And I'm like, eh, you know. But Jordan is obsessed with them. And because he understands, he would talk about how horror movies are about ways we process shit that we're too afraid to talk about.

Yeah. I'm so thrilled that he also, like, proved like, you know, you're worried, like he's got one in him and then he does it again with us, which is just like a fascinating movie that gets richer with each rewatch too. He's got the goods. It's amazing. He's amazing. He's amazing. So a couple of quick things I want to mention in addition to. to Handmaid's Tale coming back for season four.

I'm intrigued that you're gonna be popping up in Tick-Tick, boom. You've shot that. What's, yeah, what kind of, so are you playing Steven Sondheim? I am. That's interesting. Tell me, tell me about the experience

with Lynn and playing Steven. Lynn is somebody who I love, Lynn, Lynn and I had the same wonderful acting professor at Wesleyan. And Lynn was obsessed with West Wing. I remember hearing that he was, by the way, I just saw in the Heights, which is just amazing. I know people have started to see it.

You've seen it. Yeah, it's unbelievable. But I remember hearing, you know, Lynn's doing like, what is he doing? This was after he had done in the Heights long before. I think I ran into. him i was he had done the music for uh bring it on while i was doing bowing boeing um i don't think he told me but i heard he was doing like uh i said what is he doing is that it's like

it's it's a hip-hop version of the founding fathers and i was like aw good for him he's got a little thing he's working on that's a nifty idea and and it was I remember watching it the first time, and I just, I couldn't stop crying. I knew it was a brilliant idea. I didn't, the variety of songs, and the power of that show just boggled my mind. He is one of the dearest, kindest human beings on the planet.

He and Tommy Kale, are absolutely committed to a version of what we had on the West Wing, which is a kind of collaborative, diminished the hierarchy, best idea wins, cruelty is unacceptable, kindness, you know, and joy is a better way to work. And Lynn was a great director playing Steven Sondheim is like, you know, I played Hubert Humphrey and it was a version of that problem. Hubert Humphrey is this maybe five, 10 percent of the audience knows what Hubert Humphrey is like. Right. But those 10 percent really know and they may be in love with him.

Well, this is even worse with Steven Sondheim. Yep. Because, you know, you have a vehement musical theater cult in New York, and you're playing this guy. And he is, as a character, the way he talks, the unmade bed quality, the orangutan quality of him. like he's and as an actor you're like oh my god like this is so fun it's you know it's it's it's like he has no ligaments and like you know and the way he talks and like it's just fascinating

but then you realize you're way out on this fucking limb yep of human behavior uh where 90 of the audience may be like what why is he acting so strange But that's okay. Because the 10 percenters, they'll be louder. And if they appreciate what you've done. They'll be louder. And then it was so funny when I got there because when we shot it, it's me in a some time in a workshop with Jonathan Larson and Lynn has in the audience of the workshop

basically, I think we had three Pulitzer's in the room. Basically, every playwright, everybody who had been mentored by Stephen Sondheim. And I'm up there, you know, hacking my way through the jungle with a dull machete. You clearly survived. Look, you pleased the Humphrey heads notoriously. They loved your, you were Humphrey. And I'm sure you're going to do the same for the Sondymie acts. I hope so.

Theater people, you know, actors, their hearts are the size of a raisin. the last thing I do want to mention I look that a lot of actors have been getting into especially in the last year doing these kind of like scripted podcasts you have an audible podcast that you took part in called a total switch show which has some of my favorite human beings on it I positively adore Zoe Zoe Deutch

and her mom Leah Thompson did experience on that one they were great they were great and it was really fun I had never I had never done anything remotely like that and it was really a lot of fun. They are delightful. I love their relationship as mother and daughter. It's really kind of beautiful. If there's a theme to this conversation, it's finding the non-assholes out there and work with the ones that are talented and actually

good human beings. It seems like you found a disproportionate amount of them. I feel very lucky. Also, So I do want to mention one thing that's coming up is Adi Barkin is an activist fighting for Medicare for All, who is a dear friend who I met during an action for the Dreamers. And he was diagnosed with ALS and continued to fight and was a real force and sort of flipping house and putting health care on the map and there's a documentary that just won an audience award at South by Southwest that I produced about him with the Duplas brothers called Not Going Quietly. And it's going to be on PBS in the fall. Awesome. I will definitely look out for that. I think we share, fair to say, we share much

of the same politics and I appreciate your your activism, which I know predates West Wing, and it's just one of those nice coincidences in life that it probably kind of coincided and helped enable your further activism in recent years. So keep fighting the good fight. By the way, Adi Bargan, total asshole. So he's won. No. And you are not, sir. It's been a real pleasure, honestly, to get to know you today. As you can tell, I'm a big fan of your work going way back all the way to Elizabeth Shoe dancing for you. I'll do that. I'll do that after the podcast. I'll dance to the photo I have framed of you.

Everybody should check out season four of The Handmaid's Tale and all of Bradley's endeavors. Thanks, man. Appreciate it. Thanks. It was a pleasure. And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person.

I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pleasure to do this by Josh. I'm Amy Nicholson, the film critic for the LA Times. And I'm Paul Shear, an actor, writer, and director. You might know me from The League, Veep, or my non-eligible for Academy Award role in Twisters. We love movies, and we come at them from different perspectives. Yeah, like, Amy thinks that, you know, Joe Pesci was miscast in Goodfellas, and I don't. He's too old.

Let's not forget that Paul thinks that Dude, too, is overrated. It is. Anyway, despite this, we come together to host Unspool, a podcast where we talk about good movies, critical hits. Fan favorites, musts season, and case you miss them. We're talking Parasite the Home Alone. From Greece to the Dark Night. We've done deep dives on popcorn flicks. We've talked about why Independence Day deserves a second look.

And we've talked about horror movies, some that you've never even heard of like Ganges and Hess. So if you love movies like we do, come along on our cinematic adventure. Listen to Unspool wherever you get your podcast. And don't forget to hit the follow button. You know,