Happy Sad Confused - Chadwick Boseman

Episode Date: October 9, 2017

Chadwick Boseman doesn't get intimidated easily. At least that seems to be the case when you look at the roles he's tackled in his young film career. From Jackie Robinson in "42" to James Brown in "Get on Up", and now no less than Thurgood Marshall in "Marshall", Boseman is not only stepping to the plate for bigtime biopics, he's excelling with each and every performance. It's no wonder Marvel snapped up Chadwick for their next superhero franchise, the eagerly anticipated "Black Panther". In this first visit to "Happy Sad Confused", Chadwick talks about his much different career and life back in New York City before his film career took off, where his priorities lie, and why he's feeling the pressure playing Black Panther.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Get after him or have you shot You mean blow up the building From this moment on None of you are safe New episodes every Wednesday Wherever you get your podcasts Today on Happy Sad Confused, Chadwick Bozeman on playing Thurgood Marshall, biopics, and Black Panther. Hey, guys, I'm Josh Horowitz.

Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad Confused, the podcast where I get to talk to the coolest actors and filmmakers. The coolest. The coolest. The dopest? What's the adjective to say? The illest. Do people say ill still? No, I'm trying to embarrass you.

Okay, good. I was hoping because I don't think I can pull off ill. Absolutely not Not even a little bit Yeah Chadwick probably could He's a cool customer He's an ill customer

I love him He's great I've been Ever since he came in First time we saw him at Comic Con I was like He's got it He's got a charisma to him

To say the least And he is Not the latest edition of the Marvel Universe But certainly he's the next You know Person to get their own Budding franchise Black Panther opens next, I think it's next February.

I'm most excited about this than I have been for, maybe any of them. I think a lot of people share that sentiment. Because he was so, in Civil War, his stuff was so good. And I don't know if you've seen the trailer for Black Panther. I sure have. It's bananas. It's amazing. It looks awesome and it looks different.

And it's directed by Ryan Coogler, who of course did Creed and Fruitvale Station. And so if it's half as good as the promotional materials are, I do, I agree. I think Black Panther has the potential to break out in a different, bigger way, which is crazy to say because all the Marvel films break out in big ways. But there's something that feels a little different about this one. That's not necessarily why he was on the podcast, that we do talk at length about Black Panther. You got it.

Yeah. And he's open to talking about sort of how he got the role and where he goes from here. But this was a great conversation. Another actor who, while I've been following for a while I haven't had a chance really to talk to much at all. And so this was a real treat. He's had an interesting arc to his career. He's about my age, which is to say he's a very old, very old man. No, but I mean, the interesting thing is like before five years ago, or even four years ago, you probably didn't know who Chadwick Boseman was. Yeah, not until 42. Right, exactly. Forty-two was kind of the big break. And so, like, his 20s and

early 30s, not much was going on, at least in terms of, like, film. He was kind of a working theater and TV actor, a lot of time here in New York, actually. And we talk about his New York time spent here and sort of where his head was at then and the life he wanted to lead and how he kind of found a different life working in these kind of big budget biopics, which he's been most known for. He did 42, did Get On Up. And now with his new film, he continues that kind of strange, unique streak of playing real-life icons, playing Thurgood Marshall, of course, the Supreme court justice. This is an interesting film. It's not actually even, I wouldn't even put it in the biopic category because it's not a cradle to grave kind of story. It actually tells a

specific story in Thurgood Marshall's life where he was part of a, it's almost like a legal thriller. And he's kind of like the guy behind the scenes that's pulling the strings in this very interesting case. It's got a great ensemble. Sterling Kay Brown's in it, Josh Gads in it, Kate Hudson's in it. It's directed by Reginald Hudlin, who has a very interesting filmography. So there's a lot of cool aspects of this film, and I'm always intrigued when someone is approaching a real-life figure and not doing the cradle-to-grave thing, because I sometimes think those things that try to do 80 years of someone's life in two hours is really tough to pull off. And it's almost like from a bygone era of film. Like it doesn't work as well.

It's like Jackie. You just pick the... You pick those like two or three days or weeks or whatever in someone's life that kind of defines them. And this film does a good job at that. And no surprise, Chadwick is great in it. Another young actor who just has a good head on his shoulders. Not that young. He just said he's your age. Well, he's a year younger than me.

So he's still young. Oh, no, he's a kid. Yeah. He's a kid. So I believe Marshall opens this Friday the 13th. Did you stalk him about, because he worked with one of your favorite people in the Harrison Ford in 42. Harrison is disgust in this.

It wasn't, I wasn't digging for gossip so much as Harrison's an intriguing figure in the way that he thinks about his role in filmmaking. And that's sort of how it comes up here. You'll hear it a little bit. I thought you were going to ask him more like

exactly where on your ear you need to get the piercing. Like more of just like how you're going to morph. I've given, yeah, I've given up on trying. to bond with Harrison Ford. I didn't, I wasn't looking for like, yeah, well, I don't know. One day. Stay with Chadwick. Okay, yeah. Maybe this is my, this is my way in. Yeah. Um, no, this is, this is a fun conversation for anyone that's a fan of what he's doing. Uh, I think you'll get a kick out of this conversation. So without any further ado, here is Chadwick Boseman.

Let's do it. A human conversation as if we're two normal human beings. Hey, all we can do it is Oh, we got that. Welcome to the only official dog podcast. That's Chadler Klosman's. What do you do? Which dog is that, Chadler? This is a, that was a great day. That's sweet dogs.

It's been a long test store, clearly. You've lost it. They're singing, their dog noises. All right, let's go, let's go. It's good to see, man. We've never really talked at length, so this is a treat for me. I've been a big fan of your work for a while, and congratulations on this. latest one man Marshall's the film we're going to talk about but thank you so much man we have some

time to talk about a lot of things so so one thing I want to get started with if that's cool is talk about New York because I didn't realize you had like a history here like a long like you were here for a bit yeah New York always feels I mean I'm still it's still home I still have family here my brother lives here cousins here got children here like yeah it's it's some of my greatest teachers are here so yeah New York is definitely a home for me It's funny because I found a surprising point of connection that we have in that, like, my mom runs like a non-profit theater organization here in New York and works a lot with the Schaumburg. And I didn't realize that you did some teaching there for a number of years. I taught some students at the Schaumburg, yeah, for a number of years, taught theater, taught, really it was like, you know, African kind of studies during the weekend.

Sometimes they meet, every once in a while they do stuff during the week, but most of this weekend. So where were you at in your life when you came to New York? Give me a sense of sort of like where that fit into the child to reposement story. Oh, I, you know, I was a struggling artist. You know, I, the best way to put it is, you know, I was doing everything I could artistically to sort of stay in it, including music stuff. Like we, you know, it was, I was doing hip hop theater, you know, which is basically we would take the, you know, the elements of.

hip-hop and put it in the story. So the dialogue would sometimes be rhyming or, you know, I wrote a one script. It was almost like you're looking at Shakespeare, but it's hip-hop slang. Right. And is that partially to make it like accessible for different audiences? No, it was just the culture we were living in. I think we, you know, we started doing it in D.C. when I was at Howard, and it just became a method of expression.

It was like an offshoot of the underground hip hop, you know, underground hip hop movement and the performance poetry movement slash the dance because we had B-boys, we had DJs with like the orchestra. It was a whole. So just like using the vernacular of the time, the way we conversed and applying that to some classical. Yeah, like, yeah, it wasn't like, let's make this cool for the kids. It was just, that was the way we told stories.

And then the hip-hop theater festival existed. I guess it still exists. I haven't seen it in a couple of years, but it existed in New York for years, various different types of performance, different ways of doing hip-hop theater. And so now you see Hamilton, that is like the...

Ultimate extension of all there. The commercial version of what we were doing, but, you know... So you see Hamilton, you're like, yeah, been there, done that. Pretty much, pretty much, pretty much. But no, it's not, not to take anything away from it, but it is literally like we were doing that way before. so I was doing a little bit of everything I was doing Shakespeare I was directing I was writing

I was doing every little reading to anybody anybody had so I just wanted to be in the mix and be an artist you know were you making a living like were you able to like kind of get by well I was to some degree but I also was teaching at the Schaumburg you know everybody knows with that like teaching artist thing was but yeah it was a gradual thing I think you when you walk that road and you're truly you know I'll have a lot of people that will

tell me they want to be actors and they're in L.A. or they're in you know Atlanta you know and they're like you know how do you do it like you know and they have no idea you know because they think it's all

about showing up in front of the camera they have no idea how many rooms I sat in with other performers not just act as performers and we just wanted to create you know we weren't even thinking about

what we're going to get paid that was an afterthought and so I tell people it's just like you have to love what you do first and you know all the other stuff will come I'm not saying

don't be business minded but you know I can always tell whether somebody really loves it or they just want the outcome were you and did you have besides stuff like teaching

at the Sean Bird did you have like, kind of like, did you have to wait tables? Did you have to do any of that kind of stuff? I never, I never did. Yeah, I never. I just did enough stuff that was, that, yeah. Well, it was like, it was like, I want to stay in the midst of this.

If I'm teaching it, I'm learning. If I'm, if I'm. Everything fed into what you want. Yeah, if I, if I'm doing voiceovers, I did a lot of voiceovers. I didn't really, I didn't do, you know, on camera commercials. Right. Because I was like, I don't really want to, I don't know if that's my. mind, you know, there's a sort of an elitist feeling.

I don't want to do on camera commercials. I just want to be like that Robert De Niro type actor, you know. I don't want to be the seventh lead on Gossip Girl. Yeah, so, but I, I did voiceovers a lot, you know. I did, and that pay, actually, that actually got me through. Yeah, voiceovers do pay, don't it. You like, what? Thank you.

What kind of voiceovers did you do? Thank you. Thank you. What was the best good? Fast food. Lots of fast food. Any particular lines come to mind? Subway.

I don't remember the lines. You flush those out. I don't remember. I don't remember. Yeah, I flushed those out of my system. So, I mean, that's a good word for it. So, I mean, it is fascinating, because that's kind of like the big picture thing that really struck me when I was reading up on you that people don't realize. I even did, I even did an audio book.

I did an audio book that got nominated for a Grammy. Like, yeah. Do you get the nomination or are you? And I can't even remember. Upstate. That was the name of it. Upstate. Yeah.

I forgot the name of that thing. I feel like your whole team was like, really? In the room, I forgot about that. It was good, too. I'm sure. But it's interesting because, yeah, for those that don't like look at your full body of work and kind of like look at the timeline, you know, you have a very atypical trajectory for an actor.

Like, as you well know, it's like in this like kind of youth-obsessed culture where it's like me the 22-year-old and he's going to be the next big star, it took you a bit to kind of like make the leap. Yeah, and I didn't want it. That was the thing about it. It was like, I truthfully was more interested at one point in time, I think, in writing and, and, you know, I was, you know, reading books. I didn't, I didn't necessarily want it. I didn't want that. I was, like, kind of crazy. So what was it that about? You were saying, like, kind of, like, I mean, did you feel like you were better than, not in a negative way? I'm not trying to, like, make you sound, like, holier than now. But, like, were you just not into kind of. of sort of like the opportunities that were presenting themselves or it was i think i think you can be it's weird to say this but you can you can not define you know i'm not saying that it was a good thing at all uh but you can exist in a place where you have a certain amount of um uh you have a certain amount

of success amongst your peers you have a certain amount of success amongst amongst artists around you. And you view them as being as good as anybody that you see on TV. Right. Even if they're not famous, you know, I'm like, you know, I did anybody to mess with anybody from my clan, you know what I'm saying? Like, that's how you, that's how you feel. Yeah.

And so, you know, it's a thing of, I remember there was a producer, Woody King, Jr., I love. who is over a new federal theater, off Broadway theater. And he kept telling me, man, you got to go out to L.A., man. He was pushing me to go out to the idea when it's plays. He said, we're going to do the play out. And I was like, nah, I don't, you know, it's Hollywood.

I don't feel like. So I had this sort of misconception about what Hollywood was. And then I also had another point when I did want to go, a set of agents who I think really didn't believe in me. And they kept saying, you're going to go out there and you're going to get swallowed up so they produce this sort of fear

of what it was and I think sometimes you can be in New York or Chicago because Chicago is also a really good hub where you can do theater and there's quite a bit of TV

and film there too but you can be in a certain hub and have you know a success or following and people know who you are casting directors know who you are

but if you don't go out to LA, you know, and you get the whole scope of the thing, then you don't understand what you're actually missing. And there's also the kind of like, if you never go out to LA and go for it, you can kind of always be the guy, be like, well, I don't even bother with that. Like, you'll never know whether you were good enough or lucky enough or whatever, because you nipped it in the bud before you even had a chance to succeed. Yeah. And so there's a certain amount of the business, amount of the industry that takes place. You know, a lot of movies don't get shot in L.A. anymore. More stuff

is shot in Atlanta than anywhere. But the decisions are made there. And so I you know, was competing, I was actually competing with people who were in front of the people who were making the decisions and getting close even though I never met those people. Right. So, but it's

a different thing when you walk in the room and you come there. I always say if you go to L.A. with New York Hustle, nothing can stop you. So once I showed up, it was like, oh, that's it Now we got New York Hustle We're in all right

So give me this mic So did What was the life that you were envisioning For yourself long term here Like you were getting by You were you were you were living And you were in this like sounds like really Great cultural and artistic community

Where you were inspired So were you content to like Like this is the next 50 years of my life Doing bit parts here and there Doing theater here and there teaching where I had to, and this is going to be gone? I don't think I knew. I mean, I had plays that were being done throughout the country that I had written.

And, you know, I had, you know, I was doing, you know, roles on, like, guest starring roles or recurring roles. More so guest star roles. More so guest star roles. On TV things here. I was getting close to things here. And, you know, there was theater. I was doing some theater off Broadway, like, acting in. and theater off Broadway

and directing things here and there so I didn't really know like all of those roads could lead to a substantial success sure you know any one of them and it wasn't like I was far away from any of them right so it was just it was just a keep your head down and at some point

yeah yeah all of those things I was doing very well that if I saw somebody and they told me my exact story and they would say what do I'd be like you're doing great just keep going and so it was It was just the thing of, you know, it had to be the right thing to tip me over. And was writing and directing and acting, was doing all three of those things equally, creatively satisfying and inspiring?

Was it sort of strategic? Or was it, was it? Yes, the answer is yes, yes. It was equally, like, in other words, they're all different. You know, I still, you know, I have a film right now that we're, that I've written that we have a director on that, you know, we're working on in a studio. And so I enjoy the process of sitting in the room. And in this way, I have a writing partner. If I have, if you have a good writing partner, it's even better, you know.

But sitting in a room where you don't have to collaborate with, you know, 100 people. And you are sort of living in this, like once you start writing something, the weird thing that happens, once you start putting the pen to paper or you start typing it up, you begin to walk around sort of in your own story. Yeah. Things begin to come to you. And that process is a very, it's liberating and spiritual and it's exhilarating that you get to create this world. with your words. I love that process just as much as I love acting. Well, I was going to say, like, when things started on the acting front to really, like, gain

momentum, and I guess 42 is the breakthrough, is the one that really, like, suddenly jumpstarts at all. It seems like you didn't waste much time in terms of, yeah, the acting is, has now kicked up to another level, but you're a producer, for instance, on Marshall, right? So, and you

talk about this other film you're developing. Like, you're not like, compartmentalize, and saying like, okay, now's the time just to act and I'll, I'll, I'll, it's a long life we'll get to that other stuff when I get to it. You're like, you're using the capital you've kind of like got in from being cast in a Marvel movie, et cetera,

to help these other projects and to fuel these other creative pursuits. Well, it also helps the projects that you know about too. It helps the projects that I'm, that's why I have a producing credit on Marsha is because I actually act like a producer on the film. I care about it

on that level. level, you know, I'm giving notes on the script. Because we know some, some actors get that credit. It's not necessarily the case. Yeah, they're not necessarily doing that. You know, I will go shake hands and kiss babies so we can get the money or whatever it is. Yeah. So it, for me, you know, it's not like I'm just, I just have the credit.

I have the credit because I deserve it. Right. And I feel like the, the, the, those other tools that I have as a writer, as a director, come into play when I play the lead, if I play in the league, if I play in the lead, I'm thinking about the whole film in a similar way as the director or the producer. I'm concerned not just about my character. I'm concerned about how the character fits

in with all these other characters and whether this person's wardrobe is right or not. So, you know, for me, it is always the bigger picture whether or not I have the producing credit or whatever it is. It's interesting because, you know, that first, quote of a big film 42,

playing Jackie Robinson and not exactly the same way but I've talked to I've had the privilege of talking to Harrison Ford in the past and I know enough about him and the way he talks about his approach to filmmaking and he talks about story he talks about sort of being a cog in that wheel

and in some similar ways to what you're talking about in that like yeah he's got a job to do but he's not just on set just thinking about his job the thing about Harrison Ford is you know at the end of a day I remember I'll never forget this

at the end of one of our days we were on the baseball field and they were like this is the martini and Harrison Ford picks up a broom and start sweeping wow

and he did it more than once he did it outside we did the inside wasn't an ironic sweep no no no no he was like he was like I'm going to help clean up but this is it and I was like what now I'm like

where's the dustpan I gotta do something you know I gotta do I gotta do I gotta do something he's sweeping you know what I'm saying

he's blue collar you know what I'm saying he's not he's not just sitting around waiting on people to look after him I mean he will do that too but

but yeah he picked up the broom it's interesting because you know that film if you look at your your credits I mean

taking out the TV stuff that you've done here and there before then film wise you really hadn't done that much prior to 42 right you kind of made like again talking about this kind of strange circuitous circuitous path um this leap to like leading man roles like without having to do a ton of supporting parts in film so i'm just curious did you feel like it was a jump or did you feel again you weren't like a 22 years old you'd live the life you'd been you'd been living living this very um artistically culturally rich life in the theater so did it

feel like oh shit I'm out of my element or oh shit I'm ready for this this is what I prepared yeah it felt like I was ready for it you know it you know for me I had been preparing for this all that time and and and so it wasn't it wasn't like oh my gosh I'm not ready to play a lead role I was like well shoot if I don't I got to do it you know I have to do it now and I've been you know if I if I use the skills that I have I'm ready to do this and I've done it on stage which I think it's, you know, sometimes harder. So, you know, it wasn't like, oh, my gosh, this is just a different stage. Sure.

And then, you know, I have the benefit of them yelling, cut, and saying, I want to do it again. Like, that's a luxury, actually. That's a luxury, yeah. Did, it seems like you, like many performers, probably get off on sort of like the physical challenges of roles. If you look at some of these kind of early leading roles, like, you know, some commonality beyond the fact that you've played a bunch of real life people, of course, is the fact that Jackie Robinson, you know, get on up I mean Black Panther

these are all roles where you have the physicality is a huge part of the of the role is that fair to say

that that's like a key for you to kind of find your character the weird thing is that I would say that I always start really

really small and internal it always starts more like a like a whisper more like meditation and more like

stillness than anything thing, because I feel like I don't want to pull things that don't belong into this new space, into this new journey. And I may have tendencies that I'm bringing into it. So it's important to like sort of get to a ground zero before you start. No, that makes sense. You don't want to make the big choices early on.

Right, right. It's sending you down the wrong path. Yeah, so it actually, to me, the more important part is the internal point. part and I think from that you begin to see a whole lot of different dynamics because you're still you know so the physicality of like there's obviously you obviously you need a physicality for all these roles and maybe not so much for Marshall but there is a physicality to just swagger there too yeah yeah so I it to me I think it's more so than the movement it is the changing like changing well what does he look like right you know what is how do i change my body

um to look like this person and that person because i've had to play these roles right um you know trying to find some some kind of in physical ends up happening but i don't think it's the place i start are you trying to find like the overlap in terms of who you are and who the person is whether that's like because i know you've talked about how one of the things to get over for you and taking this role was you didn't look like him. That's a big, you know, that's something that's something's going to get over psychologically, I guess, and make sure that everybody, the family, whatever, is on board. Yeah, like for, you know, the overlaps are always going to happen.

There's always going to be some things that are the same. And you don't have to focus on those things as much. You do need to acknowledge them so you don't, like, leave them out. Sure. um so in this case you know he he went to how we walked some of the same hallways even though it was a different time period you know he went to howard university grad graduated from there i went to howard university so there's a certain understanding about about what that means like because you're taught about the past at howard so i get you know i would get a little bit of third good marshal um from being there uh also he spent time in new york

spend time of Harlem. And even though it's a different time period, it's a renaissance, you know, New York is always going to be sort of a tastemaker when it comes to the rest of the world. So you have this guy going into small towns or southern towns or towns in the north. He's from New York, and people are going to look at him. He's one of those New Yorkers, but he's also a tastemaker.

He's also a person not only coming there trying to bring a certain brand of justice that should exist throughout the country, but he's bringing a certain style, you know, a certain way of doing things, a certain way of talking, you know. There's stories of people

coming into town to see Thurgood Marshall try a case because it had a theatricality to it. So it does, back to the physicality, does end up being a thing of, you know, presence, you know. Do you, for those

that don't know a little bit about this film, in particular, you know, it's not like the cradle to grave biopic, which is, which is frankly tough to do, and you know that better than anybody. But like this one is an interesting take. Reginald Hundlin, by the way, is the director. That's an interesting filmmaker. When I heard that name associated with this, I was like, okay, this is going to be interesting. And it's as much a courtroom drama thriller, as it is a biopic. Do you feel like that, that, that that you still get across kind of like the life of this man even though it's like a finite period of time yes yes what the thing about it is you know you because you since you brought up reggie

um this movie is you know reginald holland has written black panther yeah you know he's written other comic he has new comic books coming out right now um so he has that genre you know always sort of lingering in his work you know the idea of of of that superhero. So this is actually like a superhero origin story. Oh, like it was like an origin story. Yeah. Absolutely. Because ultimately for those who

know who Thurgood Marshall ends up becoming, you know, he becomes the guy that wins 29 of 32 cases in the Supreme Court becomes a Supreme Court justice and himself makes laws. And I skip Brown

for support of education. That little thing that little thing that allows to sit beside each other in school. But he becomes this person, but he's not that person in this story. So the origin of this superhero is like,

well, how does he get to that point? That's this movie. And I think also you have this man who has the odds against him, odds of time and space. Like, he's racing across the country to fight

injustice in several places. That's a that's a superhero theme you know time and space being your enemy um even though you may have the power you can't save everybody right so uh it's also kind of like the superhero in secret like he's kind of like the background yeah he can't be the front facing exactly hero exactly so it's it's it has all of those elements so i feel like you know in doing this movie uh there's there's even the western there's even in like the guy coming into town

to, that's literally why they call it Marshall. He's the guy coming in into town to implement justice. He only works alone. He doesn't want to work with this guy. So that's a big job. Yeah, the booker his guns. So the weird thing about it is when I read all that

and you, and I realize well, this is actually his real story. You know, you absolutely get the history. Like, it's crazy that it is true. It is crazy that he actually did have that swagger. It's crazy that he was that charismatic

and it's crazy that he actually tried those number of cases. But you get the sense of what he's going to become in the history. It's one little story they tell about Howard in the film as I'm eating a sandwich.

I tell the story about how I sue the University of Maryland. I went to Howard and how it was in a good school and it ends up becoming a great law school that the history is sort of told in a sort of like in passing away

and you don't get bogged down in it in this movie if there is some commonality in some of these characters you played kind of early in your film career you know a bunch of icons whether it's comic book heroes literally or

figuratively these real life kind of champions of justice and change and arts Like, is there a desire for you to be, like, the nebishi, like, like, less heroic person? I mean, it is because, I mean, it's great to play the hero, and play the play these icons, but wouldn't it be nice to play something with less, like, yes. Import attached to it?

Yes, yes, absolutely. Like, you know, not to say that I don't want to want this to continue, but, but you want to have variety. You know what I'm saying? You want to, you want to be the everyday man, you know, and so, um, it's the truth is like you know that's what I was looking for when this came you know I don't want to say that's what I was looking for when Black Panther came because you know I was definitely looking at who Black Panther to go but you know I was looking for that you know everyday modern guy that that you you know and those scripts have have come and I've agreed

to do them and they've they've fallen apart too like so it's not like I haven't It's easier to green light to kind of the bigger stories in a way. So when was the first conversation about Black Panther? Can you give me a little bit of the timeline now? According to what I'm reading, it seems like it's about three years ago.

Does that sound about right? We were doing, I don't even know where, eat, I don't know what the day is. So you're talking about like going back years. What's what I'm curious about is how long, how much time passed? How long were we talking before like that official big announcement that you guys?

We were on the press. I'm going to look over here because that. I may get some help. I was on the press tour for Get On Up. So I don't know what year that was right now. It's a while back. But I was on the press tour for Get On Up over, like we were, I was in Zurich. And I actually didn't have international calling on my phone.

And on that day, I heard a voice say, You need to get international calling on your phone. Call your mom right now. Like she, because, you know, you can't get your, your mom to use Skype or anything. Like, it's just not going to do it. It's like it wasn't working. So I got international, called my mom. And that night, my agent called me while we were out or else, you know, I wouldn't have gotten this phone call if I hadn't done that.

Call me while we're out. And he said, hey, you need to get on, get on the phone with Marvel. And in, like, 15 minutes. I was like, I'm walking on the red carpet. He's like, get off the red carpet, you have this phone call. So it happened. This was probably like, I want to say it was September, October? Help me.

Like, it was like two or three months before it was announced. And what was that call? Was that like literally, was that an offer or like, would you be open to this? Because you never auditioned, right? You never had to do the screen test or anything. It was just like, we heard you were interested, you were interested. this role, I think you know what it is. You know, Marvel is funny. I think you know what it is. Don't make me say it out loud. Don't make me say it out loud. And I was like, if it's what I think

it is, yes, I want to do it. And they were like, cool, because we think we're going to bring this character into the movie we're doing right now, which obviously became Civil War. And essentially, they were like, everybody's here. Like, everybody was on the phone call. Figer, the Russo brothers, Nate Moore. was like Luis Desposito. Everybody was on the phone call. And so I was like,

okay, yeah, of course I'll do it. And I think I was in Portugal, maybe two weeks later, and then the actual offer came in. So, but I had to be quiet for a couple of months.

It's amazing to think, I mean, like, because if you look at any of the other leading guys, like, they all had to audition, whether it's a doubt, Brownie, Evans, Hemsworth, they had to fight tooth or nail.

Not to say you didn't fight for, you put it out there. Right. But it's a pretty cool position to be in the way this went down. Right. I can't tell you why it went that way for me. Right. But were you, well, I'm curious, because we were talking about sort of like being creatively involved, and you had the unique opportunity of being involved in this before director

was attached, you know, and like, so did that help you kind of like steer, were you able to kind of steer the direction of the character because. as you kind of came on board so early on. Do you feel like any early notes that you gave to Kevin and company have lasted through the development process where we are today? Yes, I would definitely say so.

You know, and the thing about it is the character, you know, first of all, Marvel, I think, is really smart. And they're going to take any great ideas and use them. and I feel like the director that they ended up bringing on Ryan Cougla is also really smart and so we just the collaboration process when when everybody in the room wants something to work ego is out of the way and there's a passion for for something ultimately that's that's

you have a great chance of making something special yeah so yeah there were certain things that I loved about the character, even before I knew it was coming, that I had written in the journal, and I told them everything I loved about Black Panther before we started. Can you give me an example of something you said? Oh, Jesus. There's a, like, for instance, there's a particular scene with, I say, I don't want to tell you. You almost got me.

I almost got me. I almost got me. Jesus. Like I almost did it I almost did it Now I can't tell you nothing I can't tell you nothing I can't tell you nothing

A couple quick things before you go Because yes we'll have time to talk about this more in length When it comes out Have you seen a cut of the film though Have you seen I haven't seen a complete cut No okay You feeling good?

I feel good Yeah I feel good You have to also feel good about sort of the early reception I mean like You know in a different way You know Wonder Woman went through this Like where it felt like before it came out

like the weight of the world was on this film like this doesn't succeed like this it was like oh that could be it for wait five years for another female led superhero film i didn't feel that way i thought wonder woman was going to do well anyway no i hear you but like there was who knows we don't know now i like i felt like wonder woman was going to do well and i thought and i automatically thought that there would be other chances because there was also you know captain marvel sure that was already yeah yeah so i was like i was like they're going to make this work one way or the other because they have to they have to do it I didn't I didn't feel

that way but I am glad that Wonder Woman was successful so what about for Black Panther do you think like God forbid for whatever reason it doesn't work with audiences the cyborg not get green light do you feel like a weight of that yes I ask that's what I'm saying I feel the weight of it from

from that perspective way more I think we walked into this saying we can't fail like oh my gosh like I don't want to mess this up It'll be the worst thing in the world if we don't get this right. And I'm not saying that I don't know what other people felt, but I just know I'll look at it and I go as a black man. You don't want to be the guy.

I don't want to be the guy that didn't, you know, didn't do it well. Are you ready to play this character for another decade of your life? Are you like? Sure. I haven't signed my life away. 10 more films but but uh you know i want to i want to play it as long as i should play it and um you know i want to also play other stuff i want to have that still have that flexibility in my um body of work are you done with the atlanta for avengers three and four i don't know

how involved you are in those but uh i can't oh boy i can't answer that question okay last thing on it. Has it been fun to mix it up with this kind of insane cast and kind of play against a few different characters you probably haven't had an opportunity to do? We're talking about Marshall? I'm talking about Avengers. Avengers. Oh, man, I love

everybody. You know what I'm saying? Like, everybody is where they are for a reason. Let me put it like that. I want nobody. Nobody from my clan. Like, nobody. I'm paraphrasing that because I

you know, I'm trying to be clean on you. This audience knows better. Would you consider Downey a mentor? Is he somebody that's... Absolutely. Nobody did it better. You know what I'm saying? Like, not just on screen, but just the way he lives.

Like, he's a cool, he's a cool person. He's sincere about, you know, the things that he believes in. He sincerely wants you to do well. Yeah, definitely. And to everybody, he is. how moving past Marshall and the Venture stuff you mentioned the script that you've been developing you have a director attached

when do you think we're going to see you direct because obviously that was an early ambition do you think we have time to squeeze that in into it probably won't be in 2018 but yeah maybe 2019 and theater who knows I mean it's tough when you have all these opportunities it's tough to kind of prioritize it all just trying to figure

out the time is the issue is like when you know I don't know how many conversations I have with with people in there that's like come on let's do something together I'm like yeah let's do it and it's like when I'm booked 18 months yeah like it's it's good you know champagne problems yeah exactly well as I said I was looking forward to this because we haven't had a chance to talk at length and I've been a real admirer of your work and to hear you talk so eloquently about the interesting path that you've been on and the cool kind of choices you're making I I think it's probably inspiring to a lot of young actors out there that might be listening to this.

Yeah, like, for me, it's the thing of, I think you should always choose what you love. And what you love might not have a lot of money attached to it. And that's, if you go back to the early part of our conversation, what you love, it may not pay that well. And so there's certain decisions you need to make for the sake of, you know, business. But other decisions need to remain true to the art, because in the end, that's what you get in. known for you get known for that and those things do eventually pay yeah well you put in the work man and all the all your success is clearly well deserved um hopefully this is the first uh long chat of many yeah congrats man thank you and so ends another edition of happy sad confused

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