Happy Sad Confused - Charlie Cox

Episode Date: May 5, 2026

Nobody can question the perfect casting of Charlie Cox as Matt Murdoch aka Daredevil now but it wasn't so long before that opportunity came that Charlie was questioning his career and pondering another job to support himself. Charlie joins Josh at this live taping at the 92nd Street Y to talk about all of it, his big break in STARDUST, his friendship (including a surprise appearance via video message!) with Tom Hiddleston, and why he wouldn't trade Daredevil for Batman. SUPPORT THE SHOW BY SUPPORTING OUR SPONSORS! Rula -- Rula patients typically pay $15 per session when using insurance. Connect with quality therapists and mental health experts who specialize in you at ⁠https://www.rula.com/happy⁠ #rulapod Quince -- Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Quince.com/HAPPYSAD ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠for free shipping and 365-day returns. Limited Time Offer–Get Huel today with my exclusive offer of 15% OFF online with my code happy15 at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://huel.com/happy15.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ New Customers Only. Thank you to Huel for partnering and supporting our show! UPCOMING EVENTS! 5/5 -- Stanley Tucci in NY -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Tickets here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 5/13 -- Matt & Ross Duffer in LA -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Tickets here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 5/17 -- Billy Eichner in NY -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Tickets here⁠⁠⁠ 5/18 -- Power Ballad w/Paul Rudd & Nick Jonas -- ⁠Tickets here⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It's pretty cool having a six-year-old boy who's obsessed with superheroes and has just discovered that his dad is one. That's pretty cool. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins. Hey, guys, it's Josh. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Today on the show, a first-time guest. We've wanted him forever.

Daredevil himself, Charlie Cox, joins me to talk about his entire career. And, of course, the latest season of Daredevil Born Again. Thanks, as always, for checking out the podcast. Thanks for subscribing wherever you're doing it on YouTube, on Spotify. I appreciate you guys. If you haven't already subscribed, give it a shot. It's time. Check out Happy Sick.

Confused every week. Two episodes a week. Okay, so this latest one, really fun one. Like I said, I've been wanting to have Charlie on the show forever. He is, of course, the iconic role that is Daredevil, and he really owns that role through the earlier incarnation, and now this truly born-again incarnation of Daredevil, it's really been cool to see him evolve

with that character and in his own career. This is a conversation we taped at the 9 Second Street. Why, of course, one of my live events there. It was great to get to know Charlie and talk about his entire career, the arc of his career, and this latest season. I would say that it's probably best for you to have seen most of Daredevil born again

as we taped this. The seventh of the eight episodes had run. So that's probably the best way to consume this if you're worried about spoilers. Beyond Charlie, I do want to mention quickly, check out our Patreon, patreon. Patreon.com slash happy, say I confused. That's where you get all the early access to every single episode plus discount codes to our live events, merch, autograph merch, all sorts of fun stuff. And speaking of live events, like the Charlie Cox one, you could have gotten in on that. If you were a Patreon member, you could have gotten early access or even free tickets, depending on the tier level. We have so many cool events.

coming up. L.A., I'm coming at you very soon. May 13th, get your tickets now. There are still plenty of good seats available. The Duffer brothers. Matt and Ross Duffer. You know how much like news they generate when they talk to me. This is going to be the third time on the podcast and we are diving deep once again into Stranger Things, the entire series, but really the ending of the show that final season. There are going to be some nice surprises. There are going to be some stuff for folks in the audience at certain tier levels. So if you know somebody out of in LA, that's a Stranger Things fan. Spread the good word because this is going to be a really cool event. May 13th in Los Angeles. Then I'm coming right back to New York for a couple really

cool events. May 17th, Billy Eichner. That's going to be fun. He's obviously one of the funniest guys alive, chatting with Billy about his new memoir. May 18th, I'm talking to get this, Paul Rudd and Nick Jonas. Yeah. Talking about their new movie Power Ballad, which is excellent. We're going to screen the movie and I'm going to have a chat with them. John Carney, the great director of once directed this one. Fantastic. And I think that's all I can announce for now. But always more events cooking. Trust me, we keep busy around here. Thank you guys, as always, for checking out Happy Say I Confused. And I'm so thrilled that I get to share this one with you. Please enjoy without any further ado, me and Charlie Cox. Hi, everybody. How's it going? Save some for Charlie,

please. My name's Josh Horowitz. I'm the host of Happy Say I Confused. You are inside of my podcast. Tage was right, yes, this is a live taping of happy, say I confused. I am so thrilled that you guys are joining me selling out this theater tonight because We have a first-time guest on the podcast tonight. Are you guys fans of Daredevil maybe? Okay, good He's an Englishman, but somehow he's become a New York superhero icon. We'll forgive him for that He's a fantastic actor. I am just in love with what he's done with Matt Murdoch aka Daredevil. He's taken the night off from defending the

streets of Hell's Kitchen to come defend the streets of the Upper East Side here with us tonight. Please give it up for the one and only Charlie Cox everybody. Come on. Thank you. Hi guys. Don't embarrass him guys. He's just a shy actor. English is a shy Englishman. I thought we agreed you were going to come in costume tonight. No Daredevil costume? I'm sorry. Yeah, apologies. It's in the dry cleaners. What's your what is your relationship with that costume having done this for a while now? Have you kind of reconciled the the good and bad and the ugly of that. Yeah.

Well, there's been a few of them. Yeah. And we've had some, yeah, there's been an interesting kind of evolution. And it's always fun to kind of have an upgrade or, you know, to see the new one and to, especially as you get to know the comics, you know, like kind of play the hits, you know, we've now managed to get quite a few of them in. What's really fun about the one in this season, which I now cannot spoil, which I was terrified of for so long. But this one that we have in this season, which is the black with the red kind of coming through,

the more physical altercations he gets into, is kind of the first suit that is unique to our show and not the comic books. It doesn't exist on page. So that's kind of fun. Along the way over the years, have you given specific notes or different kind of, do you kind of let the writers, the showrunners, kind of dictate what the costume is going to be? Actually, I think that department is completely autonomous from even the show. itself. That's somewhere high up in Marvel that the showrunner doesn't get to decide.

The producers probably are part of the conversation, but I don't think that the TV producers get to decide. That is a very high up behind closed doors, Marvel decision. I would say that Daredevil, you know, biased because you're here with me tonight, one of the cooler costumes, cooler looks in the MCU, wouldn't we agree? Yes? Sure, for sure. Yeah, and like, you know, I like that he doesn't have a cape. Cape's get in the way Listen, cap's cool, it can be cool But I'm glad I don't have one

They do get in the way I hear from fellow friends Who I play superheroes That they're annoyed Probably half your friends I've played a superhero at this point Right I'd have a funny moment in this costume

This season when I'll say this without too many graphic details But essentially the first time You properly see the costume I'm crawling out of the East River And to be fair, they had said, you know, we'll pick you up as you're already on your feet. And I was like, that's not cool. Like, you know, it's got to be like he's, you know, just been underwater for, you know, three or four minutes.

So I insisted on, like, crawling out. And I, and anyway, my stomach didn't do very well from being in the East River. Shocking. It seems so clean. It seems perfect. So there was a couple of days later, we were back on set and we were in Williamsburg somewhere or Greenpoint, I think. was a crowd of people and it was the first time the suit was being had been photographed the paparazzi had got there and they was you know and I could see all these people seeing this

the new suit for the first time and there was a sense of like and it is cool right but in that moment I was like I if only these guys knew how close I was to the needing to get this off very very quickly and I went and when I got a break I walked into my green room and I said to Christi my dress who helps me you could get it on and off because it takes a team I was like listen, Christy, you need to get this off in record time. Code red. I'm not in great shape right now. Before we come back to more about Daredevil and there's a lot to talk about,

I'm just curious, like, you've spent a lot of time in New York over the years. Between Daredevil and theater, I mean, is New York as much home as London was back in the day to you? Do you feel like a New Yorker at this point? No. I don't think I'll ever, I would never say that out loud. You know, not a true news. New Yorker, but I feel like, you know, I've spent the majority of my professional life here. You know, I was brought over the first time to do Bourbock Empire in 2011.

And other than like a brief stint back home after that job ended, I've been here pretty much ever since. I was saying backstage, I had the privilege of seeing you in Betrayal on Broadway with Tom Hiddleston and Zawai Ashton. Was that a big moment to make that over here? Yeah. Yeah. For someone that's done a lot of stage back home to be on Broadway.

Yeah, that's a huge bucket list moment. And also to get to do such an iconic British play from one of the greatest British playwrights. That was a huge, huge honour. And yeah, I remember thinking like when we were trying to figure out if there was a moment where, because we weren't supposed to transfer. We did it in London and we weren't supposed to transfer. Tom wasn't supposed to be available. I don't think Tom's ever available.

Busy ma'am. And luckily the night manager to push. or was able to push and suddenly there was a theater available and there was a moment where was it going to happen was it not going to happen I just remember thinking this is one of those moments where if it doesn't happen it might never so very very fortunate well Tom Hiddleston is a very busy guy but he did make some time to send in a message for you no way yes he did come on let's take a look at a little message no you're joking here he is ah hello chaps hey Josh hey Charlie I can't think of two finer men. And I hope you're having a lovely time. To everyone in the audience, I also hope you're having a lovely time. Charlie, you're facing questions from one of the great question askers in the game. So I thought I'd add a little something to the mix.

We performed Harold Pinder's betrayal. That's Bob. That's his dog. two times in 2019. What is your happiest memory of betrayal? And does it involve a piece of melon?

Also, second question, when are we going to play squash? Oh, it's so nice. So did you reach out to him? I did. That is so nice. I want to go to where he is. He's in Hampstead Heath. Beautiful.

Yeah, so he lives around the corner from Hampton. said Heath and he walks and runs with Bobby most of the lot. I've still never met Bobby, one of these days. Bobby is very special. We can talk dogs later. We've got, I've got, I've got, when we did betrayal, when we did betrayal, during that time on Broadway, there were two birthdays.

One of them was my daughter and the other one was Bobby's. And Bobby's birthday was, there was more money spent on Bobby's birthday. So his, he had a question about. your happiest memory that might have involved melon? Does that ring a bell? Yes. Yes. So there's a scene between the two of us and Jamie Lloyd, our amazing director,

staged it so we were right at the front. I mean, closer to the edge of the stage than you and I are now. And he gets very cross with me during the scene. And we are also eating. And eating whilst acting on stage is difficult in and of its own right. also at this point when we came to Broadway we've been doing the play since January and it was now towards November or October

so we'd seen each other every day we were very very close and when you're that close if anything goes wrong on stage and you see a twinkle in the other person's eye trying not to laugh so he's supposed to be very cross with me so he absolutely can't laugh anyway there was a couple occasions where

he's eating melon And on one of the occasions, he stabbed his melon because he's so angry with me. And he gesticulates like that. And the melon goes flying in the air and lands in my wine glass. And I can kind of laugh because I'm kind of confined his anger, humorous to an extent. But he is, I can see the tears coming down his face. And he's trying not to laugh. Anyway, it was a lovely, lovely memory.

We got to get Loki and Daredevil in a scene together. I know. Come on. Have you let the powers that be no? We go way back. That would be kind of fun? Well, the first season of Born Again was originally before the strike was going to be 18 episodes long. And Tom was going to direct one of the episodes. What?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. One of the great losses of the back half of that original. season, even though the changes that were made to the show were needed and necessary and made it much better. But he was going to direct episode 12 or something. Oh, God, that would have been amazing. Yeah, and we were already, like, on the phone, collaborating and coming out

with ideas and stuff. That would have been lovely. We'll be right back with more, happy, said, confused. From the parents behind law and order comes a mystery the whole family can enjoy. Patrick Picklebottom Everyday Mysteries. Step into the whimsical world of Patrick. Pickle Bottom, a precocious 11-year-old, with a love for reading and an uncanny ability to solve mysteries. Inspired by the beloved children's book of the same name, this podcast vividly brings Patrick's tales of deduction and everyday adventures to life as he unravels baffling enigmas and solves clever cases. Patrick Pickle Bottom Everyday Mysteries is perfect for kids and is just as entertaining for grownups who love a good mystery. The whole family can listen now.

wherever you get your podcasts. The war is over and both sides lost. Kingdoms were reduced to cinders, an army scattered like bones in the dust. Now the survivors claw to what's left of a broken world, praying the darkness chooses someone else tonight. But in the shadow dark, the darkness always wins. This is old school adventuring at its most cruel.

Your torch ticks down in real time, and when that flame dies, something else rises to finish the job. This is a brutal rules-light nightmare with a story that emerges organically based on the decisions that the characters make. This is what it felt like to play RPGs in the 80s, and man, it is so good to be back. Join the Glass Cannon podcast as we plunge into the Shadow Dark every Thursday night at 8 p.m. Eastern on YouTube.com slash the Glass Cannon with the podcast version dropping the next day. See what everybody's talking about and join us in the Dood. I'm curious, like, so coming up, like, I don't know if you knew Tom before the trail or what, but like, I've heard stories that I've talked to many of your contemporaries that knew you way back when.

It seems like there was, is it fair to say there was a group of you that kind of like came of age together? And who would you, who would you consider that group to be? So I went to an audition in, I was living in L.A. trying to get work. And I, but I had had early success. I was kind of, I was just pre or post. It was Stardust, there we see. It was post-star dust. Okay.

And so I was in a, but which had not hit in the, thanks. There they are. It was post-star-dust, which, which as kind of charming as that movie is, had not hit in the way that they had hoped. And so I was kind of like, I was not getting the opportunities I was, I had wanted to and was struggling to get work. And I was in an audition. And Tom recognized me, came up to me and said, oh, I saw that film.

and we got chatting, and he was out in LA trying to audition for stuff. And so we became friends immediately in Los Angeles. And he came over for dinner one night and said, I've got an audition to audition for Thor, the part of Thor as well. And then obviously that whole process ended up being what it was, and he was so busy. We kind of lost contact for probably eight years or so. But we had a fast friendship for a period of time in London for all that.

And the other guys that I've heard about, like, tell me if they kind of cross paths or not, but there's like Andrew Garfield, Eddie Redmayne and Jamie Dornan. So we were all really close. Yes. And some of those guys all lived together. We were all in Los Angeles, all trying to get work. You know, this has been documented, talked about a lot. You know, I always say I've got a great photograph of myself, Andrew, Eddie,

Andrew Garfield, Eddie Redmayne, and myself all on the beach in Venice. And I just remember we were all out of work. and they were going to make a movie I remember they were making this movie Bioshock I don't know if they ever made it I don't know what happened it was like based on a computer game but we had all found out on the same

Friday that we hadn't got it yeah and so it was like which was a relief by the way right because as long as no one got it where everyone's right right right so when you get something like Stardust that is a huge break that's Matthew Vaughn at the time

and that's you know it's Claire Dane's Michelle Pfeiffer, it's De Niro with Neil Gaiman writing it. Yeah. I mean, like, at the time, what are your recollections of that time period? I mean, did you feel like I've got it made now? Like, what was your sense? Well, when I got the job, it was Charlie Cox. I was the first one cast. So. Start with Charlie Cox. Yeah. And Matthew obviously had produced unbelievable movies. Yes. And he'd made Learcake, which was tremendous. But he wasn't the Matthew, you know, he hadn't proven himself over and over again as a director at that point.

And maybe it was just also kind of my youth and ignorance, but like I didn't, I remember thinking, oh, great, this is a cool movie. But as we were then going through the process and suddenly Michelle Fife was signed on and Claire Dainz and Rupert Everett and Peter O'Toole and Robert De Niro, I was like, oh my God, I'm going to be fired. Orlando Bloom is definitely available for this. So no, and then, yeah, the filming of that was just, life-changing. It was unbelievable. It was so much fun.

I do know enough about Matthew, though, that he's... He can be a tough cookie. He's not, like, warm and plusy as a director. Oh, 100%. Like, Taryn Edgerton talks openly. He's talked openly. Like, he gives him shit on that scene. Oh, yeah. And by the way, 100%. I'm sure that's true. I love Matthew. Well, and so does Taryn. Don't get you wrong. But I remember... I do remember... I hope he doesn't kill me for saying this.

I remember the first scene we shot was with... And by this point, I had got to know Matthew and his sense of humor. we're both British and men. And I was kind of, you know, but Claire hadn't really got to know him yet. And so, and on our first, literally the first shot of the movie is just us walking in Scotland.

And after, he said like, okay, cut, can you go again? Claire, you're kind of walking like a weird. And that was his note. And he did an impression. I was like, oh, dear. So post-star dust, it's kind of a little bit of a rude awakening after that. It doesn't perform like everybody had hoped. And correct me, if I'm wrong, you leave L.A.

You actually kind of run out of money and you're kind of like reevaluating where you're at in the industry. And Bordwalk Empire did kind of help you come back at a way. Yes, yes. So I'd been taken out of drama school to do The Merchant of Venice with Al Pacino and Jeremy Ians, which was an unbelievable experience. I'd gone from that onto a Disney movie with Heath Ledger and also with Jeremy Iins again, which was Casanova, which was silly and fun,

but, you know, and very soon after that, straight on to StarDust. So it was all working really, really nicely. And I was thinking, I like this acting gig, you know. That's awesome. And then, yeah, StarDust didn't quite, it didn't, I don't, you'll remember, but there was around about that time

when I was coming into the industry, the way people would talk about, movie often would be what did it do in the first weekend it doesn't seem to be something that it's talked about as much anymore but like how much money a movie made in its first weekend was a was a talking point and was crucial and we came out to came out against rush hour three and and and and I remember they didn't want to put someone told me they didn't want to put the word fairy tale in the tagline and when the numbers came in later they had they had completely alienated their audience because they had marketed it so aggressively towards making people making sure people knew it wasn't

Just a kids film right but then no kids went to see it And so yeah, rude awakening and ran out of money and was you know don't didn't have a degree or wasn't sure You know was struggling to think what I'm gonna do that outside of acting, you know Wait, were you seriously contemplating like well I had to get a job. Yeah, I had to get a job I had to wait tables or something you know So we post-start us? You waited? No, I didn't get to that point, but I left L.A.

because I left L.A. specifically because I wasn't legally allowed to do that in Los Angeles, because my visa wouldn't allow me to. I see. So if I was going to wait tables or go back to a job that I'd had in the past, I'd been a photographer's assistant, and I'd worked in restaurants and stuff. I thought, well, it has to be in England where I'm legally allowed to do that. and so went back to

London and it was around about that time that my agents called me and said look there's a very potentially a very small part in Bourbalk Empire they're not going to guarantee any episodes they're you know the character appears in three

episodes right now and you know without at that point it would not have been a job I would be looking to kind of do without any sort of form guarantee. I think I got paid less for that first season than I did for my first ever acting job on screen. So that teaches you, I mean, humility and like, oh my gosh, like this, you know, it can seem like you have the world at your fingertips. Yeah, yeah, and overnight, it just does not,

yeah. But that must have rejuvenated some confidence, like being on that set with that company of actors, you're on boardwalk empire. Well, the thing, the thing that we skipped is that after Star Dust when it didn't, when it hadn't quite, when it wasn't working out, I did go back to London and did my first play. And that was, with Jamie Lloyd. And that was a, that was really, I remember my age, I was scared to say yes to it. Not because I didn't want to do theatre, but because I was worried about being taken out of the film industry for too long. When I still, quote unquote, had some momentum that I, you know, I hadn't, hadn't been that long ago since starters had come out. And I was worried that if, that, um, that, um, that, um, um, you know, all of the opportunities would dry up if I did that. And my amazing agent who I've been with my whole career, Lindy King in the UK kind of said, I think what you'll get from being on stage will give you more than you can recognize in terms of,

or more that you can foresee in terms of kind of confidence and knowing what it is to be an actor and the love of the craft. And that was really the case. It really reminded me of the feeling that I had at school when I acted. and thought, God, I'd love to keep doing this. So that was a huge moment in my career, and all down to my agent, you know, that. So jumping forward a bit then,

Daredevil comes around, the situation for Daredevil. Had you ever been up for superhero stuff prior? Had you ever had to do kind of the spandex audition thing? No, I don't think so. I'd never gotten long enough into the process where I'd been asked to put on the spandex. But, no, I don't think so.

But I remember I was doing a play. I was doing the Prince of Homburg at the Dunmar warehouse, and Andrew came to see it. And he told me that night he'd just been cast as Spider-Man. So I remember being like, oh, wow. That's exciting. But you weren't a comic book guy. And then Henry Cavill was in Stardust with me.

Of course he was. And then suddenly he was Superman. All around you. I was like, wait for me, guys. Where's mine? The right one. came around. Yeah. And so by the time you get into that audition room, did you know, like, in your bones, like, in your heart of hearts, like, this is one I can connect with, this is,

this is the right one for me? Like, what do you remember early on in that process? So I was doing a pilot for CBS. And I had, I was not, I was not feeling great about it. We had started shooting, and it was a lovely cast and crew, but I just didn't feel like it had been the right decision to do this show, and it wasn't what I really wanted to do, and I wasn't enjoying how some of the decision-making was taking place, which I understand and appreciate, but it's kind of a network television decision-making process,

and it wasn't what I had been looking to do. Anyway, I hate auditioning, and so if I can find an excuse to not audition for something, I will make that excuse. So if I have a job, job, I will not audition. I'll be like, I'm not available because I've got this job. And my agent's always like, just go to audition. You never know. But because I was having a bad time on this job, and I remember we were shooting in the standard hotel, and it was an all-nighter.

And I decided, this audition came through, and I just decided to read the lines with my accent coach on the job. And it was for Daredevil. And it said it was Daredevil. And the story that a lot of people know, which is that it didn't mention in the body of the email that he was blind. So, and my accent coach said to me, I know this character. I think he's, I think he's blind. I'm like, I don't think so. I'm pretty sure they would mention that. I think I'd know. Why don't you just sit over there? So I went to the audition and did, you know, the feedback came back, which I did a good job, but please could I do it? Could I prepare it and be visually impaired for the recall.

It wasn't until I was allowed to go, I was then back in London, back home in London, and I was asked, they told me I was going to screen test. And I was allowed to go to the Disney offices in London and read the first two scripts. And it was at that point that I sat in a room, I was sat with a gentleman who watched me read them.

And it was when I left that room, I was like, oh no, these are really good. This is really good. That's the worst feeling. Now you're invested. Who told you you got the part at the time? Was it, like, I know Drew Goddard was involved early on. Like, who was the one that? Jeff Loeb. Yeah, Jeff Loeb called me.

Marvel, yeah. I do remember that I then, before the screen test, I was dating an actress and she was doing a job in Shreveport, Louisiana. So I had gone out to visit her. And while I was there, they wanted to, before the screen test, they wanted to Zoom, they wanted to FaceTime with me. So I got on this FaceTime with Jeff and Cream, a couple of the bosses at Marvel. and they had, you know, like before they do it, when you do a TV show of a film and you show up to the makeup trailer

or to the costume department, they've got pictures of all the actors on, you know, on the walls. And when I was sitting in the audition, my picture was already on the wall. Good, okay. Yeah, but then afterwards my girlfriend's time said, yeah, but they just exchanged that when they get on with the next part.

But it was an indication that they had kind of, and then I later found out that, Joe Kasada, who's an amazing comic book artist at Marvel, and has done stuff for DC as well, but he had been watching Bourbock Empire, and

he had seen me kill a man in a bathroom. And he had actually spoken to Jeff and said, he thought I was Irish, because I played it. He was like, this Irish kid could be really good. That's amazing. Had you seen, or have you seen Ben Affleck's Daredevil? I like it.

I'm not saying... I like him. I'm a massive Ben Affleck fan. And I think he's awesome and tremendous. The movie... Your voice cracked there. What just happened?

I think I think... I think what happened with that movie is two things. CGI was invented and the next day they were like, let's make a movie with it. So they're a little premature with the CGI. And also they try

to get the entire Daredevil anthology into a two-hour movie. Anytime you cast Colin Farrell is bullseye, come on. There's moments in it that are iconic, and I love Ben Affleck. I did have a thing where I went to one of these Comic-Con, where you do signing, and someone came up to me

and was like, asked me to sign the Ben Affleck costume. So I was like, this is kind of funny. So I signed it, and then five minutes later, someone else did it, and I was like, oh, you guys must have been it. Funny. So I signed it.

And then it happened again and again. And then I realized the show had incorrectly put my photograph at the front of where in my line. And so people have signed Ben Affleck photograph by me and they, they, it's a keepsake. Yeah, I guess so. I'm rooting for in secret wars, you and Affleck, the two daredevils to face off. It'll be so cool. Come on. It's so cool.

More happy say confused coming up. I'm Mandy and I'm Melissa and this is moms and mysteries. We're two Florida moms obsessed with true crime. From infamous cases like Ellen Greenberg to shocking Florida stories like the Dan Markell killing. With 55 million downloads, we bring you new deep dives every Tuesday and Thursday. Listen to moms and mysteries on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Reality TV is messy. Pop culture is louder than ever.

And the internet. Completely unhinged. Welcome to Roxanne. and Chantel, the podcast where Cousins Roxanne and Chantel break down reality TV, celebrity drama, and the stories everyone's texting about. We recap the shows, spill the headlines, and sit down with the stars themselves. No filter, no boring takes, just the tea. New episodes every week.

If it's trending, we're talking about it. This is Roxanne and Chantel. Let's get into it. I mean, the irony is, it's kind of fascinating. I haven't done the math, but you've probably played this character. more than virtually any other MCU actor. Post to 80 hours. It's kind of amazing.

What an opportunity. Did you have kind of like a guiding principle that's kind of staged true to you through all these different incarnations over the years? What's been kind of like your North Star for Matt Murdoch, Daredevil, right from the beginning? What great question? It was definitely got to be something to do with leaning.

It was always something to do with leaning into the shortcomings. lean into if you're playing a superhero lean into what I think what makes a superhero superhero is not that they don't have the same challenges as specifically emotional challenges that other people do it's just that they find a way to to to overcome them so just lean into the things that you wouldn't necessarily identify with a superhero so I really enjoy it with and Matt Murdox is a great it's a great with Matt Murdoch for those things.

But just lean into kind of when he isn't his best self, when he loses his temper unnecessarily, when he goes too far, when he loses, when he has a crisis of faith or something like that, just lean into that stuff because I think that's what makes a superior interesting, is that they then find a way to bring themselves back from the brink, as it were.

So, I mean, when the Netflix show ends, had you kind of reconciled that, I had my run, if that's it, that's it? Yeah, 100%. Yeah, like we ended up with season three was a hit. We were supposed to go and do season four. They'd pitch me the season. We were, you know, a couple of months out.

I'd turned down a couple of jobs, including a Matthew Vaughn job. And then suddenly the plug was pulled. But I was, I'm pretty, I've always been pretty practical-minded in those situations. Like, I'm always like, yeah, I'd rather do that than run it into the ground and end on a bad note. kind of thing. So when the call comes, was it a shock? Yeah, and meanwhile, Vincent

didn't, was, we and Vincent would speak regularly and he'd be like, no, they're definitely going to come back. And I would get off the phone and say to my wife, guy's delusional, like, like, he's going to be in his 80s and he's going to be still talking. Like, someone's got to say to him, dude, let it go, it's, oh,

you know, but... Was he just manifesting? Well, he was right. Well, he was right. He was right. He was like, there's no way. the show as popular as it was, as successful as it was, there's no way they're not going to do something with us. And I 100% believed it was done and dusted, partly because I had done betrayal with Tom 2019.

The show was cancelled 2018. 2019 we did betrayal. Kevin Feige comes to see the play because he's working with Tom and knows Tom very well. I didn't have a relationship with Kevin because he wasn't involved in the Netflix show. And when I went to go and say hello to him afterwards, he didn't mention it.

And to the point where I thought, Maybe he doesn't even know. It's Kevin Feigey. I thought it was the police. The Marvel police are here. Yeah, so I thought, I literally said to my wife, like I don't think he realized it was me. What I later found out when he did call me

was that legally wasn't allowed to speak to me about it. Wow. Because there was a two-year embargo. Yeah. So I got a phone call June 10th of 2020. And from Kevin Feigy, and I thought it was a prank. And yeah, and he was like, let's, you know, we've got some ideas.

Are you interested? Did you have any concerns at that point that, you know, you dilute by putting it on the Disney platform that it's not going to be? Daredevil is so part and parcel, gritty and raw and extreme. Well, remember, it was June 10th, 2020. So everyone was thinking, will I ever have a job ever again? Will I ever? So at that point, I was not worth. Yes.

creative concerns were not present. I was like, I'm there, where, where? Next week? But I have had this conversation. I'm like, this is public record. You kind of even alluded to it. When I talked to Vincent Dinoffrio, like that first season of Born Again,

it was a tough one for you guys. There was a major creative pivot that you guys had. And Vincent told me, like, you guys were kind of brother-in-arms. Like, you were in lockstep. Like, we need to tell Kevin and everybody, like, we need to make some changes. Yeah, we would.

I think we weren't... It's an odd one to talk about, and I don't know what was going on behind the scenes. There was an admirable effort to... I think one of the things that people had discovered with... when streaming came along, everyone thought that the old model,

the network model, of a kind of like a long-running procedural-type show, everyone thought when streaming came along, that's going to die a death. they're dinosaurs, they're not going to last. And the truth is, it's not the case. People love those shows. They're incredibly addictive.

They're really easy to watch. They're very, very well-written. It's very difficult to write a well-written procedural. And Kevin has actually since told me that, that they were looking at that model and saying, we would like to have that kind of show on a streaming platform on Disney Plus. And so they were looking like how, that you can see what they're thinking, what character do we have, we can do that.

with. Well, we have a lawyer who's also already popular and it made a lot of sense. I think once we got into production it very quickly became apparent that the lessons we'd learned from the movie

that we had got right in the show, we were now almost unlearning a little bit and that the character really does work best in a serialized platform but also when it's darker and grittier and there's less tongue and cheeks, like levity.

And also, correct me from wrong, also connecting to the ensemble, the characters from the past of Foggy and Karen and honoring those relationships. Yes, yeah. And I always must say huge credit to Marvel and those guys because it takes a huge amount of courage and money to make a U-turn like that.

A major one, yeah. We're indebted to them. And they really did listen to Vincent. So I assume most people have seen up until this point as we tape this one more episodes to go in this season. It's been a great season. Does this feel like, I don't know, expect you to rank the seasons or episodes, but does this feel like a true expression of the character that you kind of always hope for in this season? What are you proud of that you've executed this season and Born Again? There's a sweet spot.

There's always been for me a sweet spot with this character and this show where it's a sophisticated, it's honest, it's as truthful as you can get for a superhero, but it has like a peppering of the Marvel magic, just a peppering of it. And that garnish, when you get the right amount of it, is a great sweet spot. And there's been moments throughout this, you know,

with the Netflix show and also other shows that we popped up in, there's been moments where I've thought, oh, we've really found it here, this little spot. I remember in season two of the Netflix show around about the trial of Frank Castle and then a lecture shows up for the first time. You know,

my memory of it is we're dealing with some very serious themes. We're talking about having uncomfortable conversations, you know, in a superhero show, but uncomfortable conversations about gun control and things like that. And then, but we've just got this Marvel magic on it. And I think this

season that we've done, Dario has managed to maintain, especially when we get to the end, the last few episodes, has been able to maintain whatever that little pocket is, that tone, Dario Scott of Paine, our amazing writer, showrunner, he's managed to be as consistent with that than anyone else in this season. Obviously, from the start to the Netflix show through this season, the physicality, the fight scenes are epic. I mean, you must take a lot of pride in what you guys and the whole team have been able to execute the famous Wunners, which have now kind of become a signature in the show. And I mean, you didn't have this kind of background prior to Daredevil.

You weren't, like, necessarily action hero. At all, no, right? Yeah. So, I mean, is there one that stands out? We could cite six different, like, Wunner's iconic scenes from the show. What's the one that you look at and say, like, I nailed it, we nailed it? What do you take the most pride in from an action perspective? So from a personal point of view, the prison fight in season three,

mainly because I was, I had to and was able to do so much of it. And it's so long. I do, and also, the filming of that was such an event. So production, it's the only time in my career this ever happened. Production gave us a day off filming just to rehearse, which when you're trying to. explain that to the money men, the finances, that's like you

don't take a day off to rehearse, but in order to get that right, we took a day off to rehearse, everyone showed up at the prison, including the camera team and the sound department, everyone, and we rehearsed for an entire day. And then we came back the next day, and the plan was to shoot it. It's 11 and a half pages. So it's 11.5 minutes.

And on like the second or third take, it went really well. And everyone was like, huh. And we kind of watched, we hadn't had lunch yet. And we kind of watched it.

And there was a couple of moments that were not perfect, but, you know, you could get away with it. And so everyone was like, are we going home? Anyway, the decision was made that we can do better. And every time you go back for another take of any action sequence, you have to think about the risk of injury. It's like people get hurt. And we're pushing our luck.

Especially as you get tired, more tired and blah, blah, blah. Anyway, we decided to do it again. We're going to go to lunch and we're going to come back I'm going to get an even better take. So we come back from lunch, and then it's just not happening. It's not happening. But you can't quit now,

because you've told the story that there's a better version out there. And we keep going, we keep going. Anyway, a couple of things happen. When you get to about, oh no, the take is 13 minutes. When we get 11 minutes in, there's a dialogue scene,

but it's still within the oneer, right? And it's with a Russian guy who's in prison. and he'd been amazing all day, every day. Before that happens, I'm grabbed by a huge guy, and his choreography is to get me in the room. There's no specific choreography. So I've said to him,

I'm going to do everything I can to stop you getting me in the room, so you're going to have to get me in the room. It's the only way it's going to look real. What I didn't tell him is on the last take, I had found a way to hide some mouthblood in a bottle. I found a way to hide it in one of the cells. So when it was over my shoulder, I could grab it, put it in my mouth and save it. But I didn't tell that guy that.

And I didn't tell the actor. So we then start doing this take, and it's immediately you can tell, this is it. It's going, everything's working perfectly. It's so exciting. It's so thrilling. We've passed all the tricky stuff. We're probably seven or eight, nine minutes in. We get to the point, the guy grabs me.

I'm fighting like hell. He gets me to the room. he shoves me against the wall and I spit the blood out that he doesn't know who's there. So all I hear, so the camera's on my face as I've been against the wall like this

and then it very slowly pans, you hear his first line and then it very slowly pans to him, right? And his first line is why you hear and who are you and what do you want or something like that. But as he throws against the wall, all I hear is, oh shit.

And then the camera starts to panes towards him and he goes, oh, what's my line? What's my line? Like that. And then luckily, just before it gets there, he goes, who are you and what do you? So he saved the day, yeah, yeah. Wow.

I do love that he's like also one of the only like superheroes that actually like you feel the effort. Like you like hear the grunts and the screams through the fights. That's got to be like, you can kind of like be real about it too because it takes a real effort from you. I'm sure. You know, and lean into the exhaustion. Right. You know, yeah. So there's a lot of good news.

Good news is that, again, as we tape this, we have one more big episode to conclude season two of Born Again. You're also knee-deep in shooting the third season. Yeah. A lot of photos out there already. A lot of things we can assume. It seems like the Defender's gang might be reteaming. Sorry?

I have no idea. Yeah. Oh, yeah, I'm sorry. You don't even remember who the defenders are. That's alarming. What can you say about season three? I don't expect you to spill it all, but what are you excited for folks to experience from the next one?

Well, at least I start off with a beard. God, yeah, nothing. I don't know. I can't say anything. Okay. I'm always terrified of that question. What do you feel, I mean, in terms of just a big picture, like, can you imagine playing Matt Murdoch Daredevil in five years, in 10 years? I mean, you've already put it in a long run. Like, is there enough meat on the bone still with this character for you? Charles Sewell, who's a wonderful comic book writer, just released last year, I think, a new Daredevil run.

I think it's called a Cold Dead Hell, I think it's called a Cold Den Hell, in which Matt Murdoch, I think, is in his late 60s, 70s. So I, and Charles sent it to me, and I read it. like, I mean, it's so, it's wonderful. It's so beautiful, but I was like, well, there you go. That buys me another 20 years. I mean, and we did kind of like joke about it earlier. Obviously, it does seem obviously being part of the MCU now, and we've gone to see you with Peter Parker and Sheealk, etc.

And now with Secret Wars and Doomsday, it does feel like there's opportunity. I mean, again, I don't expect you to spill anything. But like, in the idea of getting to interact with more and more characters in this universe must be really thrilling. Yes, I mean, I mean, yes. Marvel have kind of been clear with me, for now at least, that I'm focusing on the show. Yeah, that's our focus. That really is the truth.

What does Vincent say? Because he knows the future. Yeah, yes, exactly. Exactly. Yeah, I should go to him. Yeah, and it's one of the things that obviously is the fans of the MCU love it when the characters kind of clash. So we'll see. But right now I'm certainly focused on our show. Again, having played this character so much,

like you must act as like his greatest advocate. Like, do you feel like you're sometimes like, have that role on set? And I would imagine as the years go by, having more creative input, like you're defending, knowing what you do about the character and the comics, like my Matt Murdoch, my Daredebel would or wouldn't do this.

Do you find yourself in that position? I very rarely find that I'm put in that position. Like the process that we go through, I mean, and the writers and the creators are so strong, the material we're getting is so good. But I will, I mean, on the way over here, I was reading two scripts, and I messaged Dario, as I read them, said,

these are great, it was so exciting. This scene is going to be iconic, blah, blah, blah, whatever it is. And then I'll find time to get on the phone with him, and there'll be cadences that I don't, I just not sure that Matt Murdoch quite, speaks in that rhythm but we're talking about minor details you know

and and I but those are the details those little nuances bizarrely as minor as they can seem to me are really important and I know they offer Vincent as well you know I love it when we come up with

little ideas Matt Murdoch things that have come from us because we've embodied the characters for so long a lot of the stuff actually

is not so much dialogue it's actually like and they'll write a scene and I'll have an idea about that scene. I give you an example in the end of the episode eight of Born Again season one right before when Frank Castle is in my apartment. So I shot back at my apartment and he's already there. And the way it was written was I walk in and I say and he says something to me

and I walk in he speaks to me right and on the day I said to them look I think it's fun I know he's in my apartment from two or three blocks away and he knows that I know he's in my apartment from two or three

blocks away so I said why don't why don't because we know that as the characters why don't we delay the gratification for the audience so why don't you have me walk into an empty apartment seemingly, sit down, and then seemingly say to no one, couldn't you have knocked, or whatever the line is, I don't remember it is,

and then reveal him. And that's a very Matt Murdoch thing that wasn't on the page, but it was like an idea that came, because we know the characters so well. Big picture speaking, like, where are your ambitions outside of Daredevil keeps you quite busy? It's a big time commitment. But like theater, film, TV, a type of role, like, what are you chasing at this point outside of the Marvel? Honestly, fatherhood. Yeah. Like is like as much time as possible with my kiddos.

And this job, bizarrely, is actually wonderful for that. Because although I'm away during the week a lot, it really does give me the freedom to not work for the second half of the year. If I don't want to or don't, you know, if it's not something that's that I can figure out around my family. So that, you know, they've got young children. I'm acutely aware. Did you ever see that interview or that clip with, with, I told you this is behind stage, I'm terrible with names, with Better Call Soul. Barb Oden.

Yes. Did you see, have you seen this clip where he did a podcast and they asked him, who do you envy? And his answer is, anyone with young children still in the house. I did hear that. Yes, yes. That was the happiest time in his life. Yeah. And I'm lucky in that I'm not missing it.

I'm acutely aware of how wonderful it is. And it just makes me want to not miss a single second of it, you know. It's pretty cool. I also said this backstage. It's pretty cool having a six-year-old boy who's obsessed with superheroes and has just discovered that his dad is one. That's pretty cool. I was actually saying, like, I was having a conversation.

I was having a conversation in the car with my children this morning on the way to soccer a soccer game and they were asking me about when I'm when when is a job going to end when I'm going to be home whatever they were asking and they said you know when when you know and are you going to do dad devil again next year I come up what the conversation was but I eventually ended up saying look

you know at some point it will come to an end you know I won't always be this character I'll be and my son went what he was absolutely horrified and then stop the car dad we have to talk about and then the next he goes boom what am I going to tell Alex? So, yeah, so that's the first thing.

But outside of that, outside of that, I'd love to do some more theatre. I'd love to do some more theatre here. And, you know, I'd love to kind of, you know, the early part of my career was, you know, was movies and then transitioned into television. I've been recently doing, in my off season, and I've been doing a few films here and there,

and it'd be great to transition back into that a little bit, I think. Excellent, excellent. Well, keep doing Daredevil. Don't disappoint Alex. No, sure, exactly. We end Happy Second Fuse with the profoundly random questions. You ready for this, Charlie? Yeah.

Okay, here we go. You wrote them. They're mine. Blame me. Dogs or cats? Dogs. Are you a current dog owner? Yep.

Okay, we have lots of... I've always been a dog guy. Multiple, certain kinds, certain breeds. What's your... All different breeds. We currently have a border terrier and I always wanted one and we never had one until this time. So yeah, I would. What do you collect, if anything?

Do I collect? Well, I used to collect DVDs. I used to go, well, I started with VHS and then DVDs. I still have them. The actual collection is somewhere? When I lived in a small London apartment, I made a terrible, decision of by removing them from the cases. They're in sleeves.

I know. I know. And it's funny because we were talking about when I did the Kevin McCarthy podcast and he said to me, do you still watch them? And I said, yes, but it does slightly depend on how much it is to rent the movie. Because if it's $3.99, I've got to go. I'm with you. I've been there.

So, but I do have like, so DVDs. I don't think it's anything else. Yeah. Do you have a favorite video game of all time? Yeah, I'm not a video game guy either. Okay. But it would be Donkey Kong. Classic.

The Dakota Johnson Memorial question, she asked me this. I ask everybody. Would you rather have a mouthful of bees or one B in your butt? One B in my butt is funnier. Yeah. Well, but can I, wait, can I ask you these as well? Do I get to ask? I mean, I'm a one B in the butt kind of guy.

Okay. I think we're at that stage in the relationships. Movie posters. Yeah, I'm on brand, you know. Yeah. What do you think? What's the wallpaper on your phone? Oh, it's a plant.

Oh. I don't know what plant. Interesting. Yeah. Huh. How'd that happen? Just, you like the plant. Yeah, and then I just wanted something different,

and it was a, I don't know how I got there. Yeah. I don't quite know how I got there. Family's overrated. I'm going to do a plant. Yeah, but it's just a leaf. It's a leafy plant. It's weird. It's fine.

I don't know how I got there. I'm not 100% sure I know how to change it. There's the real answer. Who's the last actor you were mistaken for? Oh, I think Rob Patterson. I think that's happened a couple of times. Yeah. I mean, another brooding superhero.

It has happened. I'll tell you who it used to happen a lot with. Rupert friend. Oh, yeah. Yeah, happened a couple times as a Rupert Friend. Okay. Yeah. If you could trade places, if you could be Batman instead of Daredevil,

would you take that deal? No. No, Batman's cool. I mean, two of the coolest. Batman's cool, but... But... But... Got cloak.

Damn, capes. And also, it can't move his neck. What's that about? Yeah. They haven't figured that out yet. Well, none of them. They can't figure out how to move the neck. What's the worst note

a director has ever given you? the worst note, well, it's not a director, but I did get told in an audition once, in an audition, it said in the script, he weeps or something. And in the, they're casting at that point where he's supposed to cry. It was very hard to cry, because the guys said it just went, like it's a button you can press or something. And in the spirit of happy second fuse, who's in. actor you see on screen that always makes you happy.

You're in a better mood as soon as you see them. On screen? Yeah. Jim Carrey. A movie that makes you sad. Can you answer that one as well? So many. I mean, we were talking backstage.

Saddened. No, we lost Gene Hackman. I mean, it's my all-time favorite, maybe. Yeah. Movie that makes you sad? Sports movies. There's the movies that, yeah, like, I will cry. Rudy or a... A hundred percent.

And I'm not even American football guy, you know, what you guys call football. I'm not an American football guy, but yeah, any sports movie, you name it, like Rocky, you know, Rudy, any given Sunday, you know, just you name it. Sports movies get me every single time.

You ask Pacino to give the speech, the locker room speech when you worked with him? So good, isn't it? It's so good. And finally, a food that makes you confuse, Charlie. You don't understand it. Why do people eat this? Oh.

What's the thing? What's that thing, what's the thing, is it like in sushi? I love sushi. What? No, I like wasabi. Is it, uni? Someone else just told me uni recently. This came up.

Yeah. What is that? Yeah. What's sea urchin technically? And also people are real, like, foodies are like, well, you don't really love food if you don't eat, you know. Right, right. Oh, yeah. It tastes so wrong.

I wish I could remember, yes, literally like one of the last guests on this show mentioned. There's a hate of uni going around. I also am one of those people that if I eat coriander, I taste soap. Oh, one of the, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I got you. Okay. We'll get it out of your goody bag on the way out. What's your food one?

Beats, not a beats guy. Yeah. I like cooked, I don't mind cooked beats. I don't like it in any form. I'm sorry. Really? This is where the friendship ends here tonight. No, I've had a blast getting to know you tonight. Likewise, thank you. I wanted to do this for a long while. Daredevil, Born Again, Disney Plus. One more episode.

and another season to come. Check it out. Spread the good word. Everybody, Charlie Cox, everybody. Thank you. Thank you. That was so fun. I really appreciate you.

Thank you. And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh. Goodbye, Kyle. Did the sound of those words call to you like Pavlov's dog?

Then you might enjoy our podcast, Turtle Time. Every week you can join me, Riley Hamilton, and my co-host, Amy Scarletta, as we cover the most pressing Bravo news and dig into the new episodes to answer important questions like, Who the hell is Adrian Maloof in this world? Listen to Turtle Time on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,

or wherever you get your podcasts, new episodes every Wednesday and Friday. Friday.