Happy Sad Confused - Chiwetel Ejiofor

Episode Date: August 24, 2015

Outstanding actor Chiwetel Ejiofor joins Josh to talk about his new post-apocalyptic film Z for Zachariah, his complicated relationship with Chewbacca of Star Wars, the moment he discovered Shakespeare in his early years of acting, and more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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So get access to all this exclusive content, both on your phone and on your desktop, with Howl Premium, for only four, nine. a month. And with the promo code happy, you get a full month of a free trial. So go to howl.fm, enter the code happy at checkout and you're off and running. Remember, you can use howl on your phone or computer, but you can only use my promo code on the howl.fm website. Go to howl.fm. That's howwl.fm. And use the promo code happy for one month free trial of premium. Hey guys, welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad Confused. I am Josh Horowitz, your fearless leader in this podcasting endeavor.

With me this week is the, go on. I have no adjectives to describe you. What adjective would you use to describe yourself, Joel? Harry. Yep. And reliable. Wow. That's not the first one that comes to mind.

But okay. We'll go with that. we're kind enough to come to my office and record this interest. Sure. We'll go with Reliable. Returning for his third intro to the podcast. Wait. Is that true? This is the fourth. Fourth? Oh, okay.

Well, good. Well, congratulations. Thank you. Um, this week's guest, which you have no, um, do you know who this week's guest is? I don't know what this week's guess. Okay. Well, this is going to be a surprise for Joel and for you guys in the audience, unless you, you're reading the thing on your, uh, uh, iTunes. Uh, it's Chewital Egy a four. Oh. Oh, old Chiuyato.

Yes, who I had the privilege of sitting down with at length to talk about his great new film, Zeefer Zachariah, which, you know what I sometimes don't do in the actual conversations that I'm going to do here is. I don't talk about what the plot of the film is. I take it for granted that you know. So I'm going to tell you a little bit about Zephyr Zachari. I'm going to educate you, Joel, and it's her in the audience as briefly as possible. Because this is actually a really good movie. I've seen it twice. and it's a three-hander, if you want to put it that way. It's Chewetel, the lovely talented Marga Robbie, and the lovely and talented Chris Pine. And it's actually one of these post-apocalyptic things. Marga Robbie's the last person on Earth, we think. It's not a spoiler to say very soon after, Chewetel enters the picture, and you can guess where that's going, because I mentioned a third actor, Mr. Chris Pine enters two.

It's a really provocative drama about sort of relationships. and how things can get a little complicated when it goes from two people to three people. And all the survivors are very attractive. And that's the good news, I guess. I mean, bad news is the world's over. The good news is when we repopulate, it's going to be a very attractive new.

Yeah, of just a handsome, handsome-looking race of inbred children. Exactly. It's a nice, we mentioned this in our conversation, it's a nice counterpoint to Last Man on Earth. Ironically, it kind of has the same kind of weird escalation in the kind of growing complications as the cast gets bigger. But I actually, I do recommend this one very highly.

It's a provocative piece of work from a great filmmaker by the name of Craig Zobel, who did this movie, Compliance. And this one is a good one, and I'm definitely looking forward to his next one as well. So that's Chiu-Wittel, who is lovely. The big revelation I told you this the other day, Joel, is we get into this, guys, and this is just in case you happen to encounter. Tuitelle Egya for in the future, don't call him Chewy. I mean, I just figure that would have been something. So you're saying I'm stupid for even assuming that anyone would, by the name of Chewetel,

would go by Chewy. Yes. Okay. It's not like, just again, it's not like I said, hey, Chewy, and he got angry at me. Yeah, Rick, did you pose a question or did you greet him? You just jumped right in. No, no, no. Without ruining the next 40 minutes of wonderful conversation, I asked the question.

And maybe I incorrectly assume that friends do call him chewy to which he very decisively said no. It's actually, he has a funny perspective on it and he has an interesting perspective on Star Wars because of his name, of course. But yeah, I mean, this guy is obviously one of our best actors, Oscar nominated for 12 years of slave. And whether you knew him just from that going forward or you knew him from earlier stuff, whether it was Stephen Freer's movie called Dirty Pretty Things or Kinky Dinkie. boots or Firefly or rather Serenity. That was the feature film that earned him a legion of Joss Whedon fans.

Really cool to bring him into studio and have a chance to talk to him at length about this film and not at all about Dr. Strange. He refused to talk about Dr. Strange. He wouldn't reveal anything about Baron Mordeaux. He's going to be playing Baron Mordeaux, which ostensibly we think is going to be the villain,

traditionally kind of the villain to Dr. Strange. Benedict Cumberbatch playing Dr. Strange. How cool is that? But no, you know, the Marvel guys, they don't want them talk. I get it. And Tilda Swinton's in there, too. I know. It's the ancient one.

Have you heard, have you followed how there's some, it's not rumors? It's questions about whether she's going to play the ancient one as a man or woman. Because she's kind of done that in film where she's kind of cross-gendered. Could be interesting. Could be interesting. Joel, what do you have to plug in your life? I want to have to plug you guys. Where are you playing next?

Where am I playing next? I'm probably going to be playing Facebook Marvel Avengers Alliance soon, so I'll be doing that alone. Have you ever performed anything in front of a crowd? I have. Have you ever performed music, comedy, acting, live sex show? I will say, well, yes, but I did, I have a very, I had a band in college, but I also have a cameo in a few after hours, the most notably the one with Ethan Hawk. Oh, yeah, guys, you should look this up. This was an underseen, we could probably say that of many of our after hour segments.

Yeah, it's just rhetorical at this point. But I like this one a lot. We called it before after hours. If you Google before after hours, Ethan Hawke, this is one of the sketches that you might need a few more search terms, MTV. No, no, no. Okay, whatever. Before after hours, MTV, Ethan Hawke.

Please look it up. I think it's on YouTube or the MTV player, whatever. This is something that Joel and I concocted, and it was a fun little sketch that Ethan Hawke, who doesn't do a lot of comedy and maybe never will again after doing this sketch did with me and yeah, Joel plays, well, I don't want to ruin it, but Joel plays a very close, um, I have, yeah, I have no dialogue, but I sell it with my eyes. You really did. It's actually, I'm not even exaggerating and I don't want to give any compliments to Joel ever, but it is one of my favorite moments ever in an after hours. And I will say, and I've said this to you

before, I think it's my favorite wine ever in an after hours, not delivered by you, delivered by Ethan Hawke. So enough about stuff that you can't see while we're talking about it. Well, you think. you um so that's about it oh one thing i want to get to always asking you guys for your lovely questions um someone sent in a fun one that's just good for film fans what was the one he someone sent in oh no i can't find you now here it is um from ink r 777 favorite fincher film favorite fincher film uh that's i mean fincher's my my guy i love mr david fincher the first thing that comes to mind, I will say I think 7

is probably kind of a perfect movie. I love 7. I have to agree. When Fight Club came out, I was kind of enamored with that, but over the years, I feel like seven is the movie, just the narrative. Yeah. And just like, it's so cool. The design

of like the world, it's kind of like this kind of like alternate reality. It's just Spacey's amazing. What's your favorite 7 quote? I don't think that's appropriate for the I love seven. I really do. I watch it a ton of times. I kind of like and love all of his stuff. Zodiac is probably maybe a close second just in sheer epicness and so many great performances in that one. But I love all this stuff. Yeah. Well, do you just relate to Zodiac more than the other ones, more than seven? No, no. Even Alien 3. I'll defend Alien 3 and David Fincher won't defend Alien 3. That's how hardcore a Fincher fan I am. One day maybe on the podcast, I don't know what he's doing next. He takes too much time. HBO projects, I believe.

Yeah, but I've heard a lot of problems with them, right? He'll get back on the horse soon. I'm not worried about Mr. David Fincher. But enough about David Fincher. On with the show. Joel, you did it again. Fourth times the charm, apparently. That's a record.

For you talking to people or for me having a... This is my fourth interaction with a human... Usually we just email, but human contact. I know. It's very surreal. On with the show. here he is Chewettel. Don't call him Chewy, edgy of four, star of Z for Zachariah. Enjoy. It's good to have you here today, Chewetel. We got a chance to talk briefly about this one in Sundance, but we got the ball and chain of Margo and Chris. Now I have you all to me.

Yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah. Those guys always drag me down. Right? Well, he's busy what, captaining the Enterprise. Yeah, she's in crazy makeup and everyone's doing superhero movies. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I guess you will be, too. We can talk about that at some point as well. But this is a great film, man. I really, I enjoyed it when I saw it in Sundance.

I was telling you before, I got a chance to see it again. Partially as a refresher and partially because I enjoyed it so much, I want to catch it again. Tell me first, like, where this came and where you were at? Because I feel like this was, was this the first thing you did after 12 years? Yeah, I think it was. I'd done, I think I'd finished 12 years and taken a bit of time just time out

at a little time off and then I and then I was kind of interested in doing another film and I spoke to Craig and so we talked in L.A. And and I just

you know I really loved compliance you know compliance. It was quite tough film you know but it was really engaging and incredibly sort of epic and really dealing with all of these human emotions and a really sort of raw way. And so when I had spoken to Craig and when I'd read the script,

I realized that he's a perfect director for this kind of material and to sort of wrestle with all these kind of emotional nuances. And so I got very excited about working with him. And so I suppose that was probably

about half a year, three quarters of a year or three quarters of a video or whatever, until we actually got a chance to get to New Zealand and shoot the film. Did it feel like kind of like a good escape at the time you had just gone through that crazy award season thing, which can screw with somebody's brain,

even the most composed human being, probably were... Well, actually, the truth was, I was actually in the last parts of the award season, you know, when we shot the film. So the BAFTAs hadn't happened, the Oscars hadn't happened, and I went off to New Zealand, and then came back for the BAFTAs,

flew back to New Zealand, you know. I mean, it was an insane schedule. Is that helpful in a way to compartmentalize, or was that easy to kind of be like, okay, I'm going to turn off this Chuitel and turn on this guy right now, or was it sort of distracting at the time to go from those two very different kind of lifestyles? Yeah, it was, I thought it was kind of fascinating. And, you know, I was so relieved in a way to get to New Zealand, you know, the first time that I, when I first landed,

because it was right in the mix of all of that stuff. And it's like the polar opposite. It was suddenly on the South Island, and there's nothing going on. you're totally unplugged, you know. It's a half-mile walk before you can find the place where you can get one bar on your cell phone. You know, it's like, it's sort of that sort of universe, and it was beautiful to be there

and to be doing a project like this, you know, that was just very intimate, very detailed, with three, you know, for most, for half the film, it's a two-hander, and then, you know, and then when Chris arrives, it's three-hander. And those are the only people in the movie, and it's just about interpersonal relationships. And I thought that was all beautiful and fascinating.

I'm curiously, from your perspective, the kind of actor that like, like, do you like to arrive on set still with some questions, still with like some uncertainty, or do you have it kind of all figured out in your head by the time you're there on the first day of set? Well, I suppose I have a plan, you know, like if everything falls to hell. I can always go back to. Yeah, there's hopefully something that I've come up with beforehand that I think is going to kind of be, to work through it and to sort of navigate.

The hope is that you throw that plan out the window because every day there's better ideas and you know, and you and the other actors and the director and really are coming up with different and better ideas than you could have come up with on your own. And so that's the hope. And in this case, that's absolutely what happened, you know, every single scene we worked and discussed and played through, played in different ways,

tried new things, you know. And so it bore no resemblance what I ended up doing, bore no very little resemblance to what I'd kind of come prepared with as an overall arc, yeah. What do you, what do you, your character, all three are great characters, your character is fascinating in that, it's, man, when Chris enters into that film, I feel like you, the collective audience just feels like a, I don't even know what the emotion is, it's just like, yeah, gutted for this guy who's just a little bit slow to act and, and tentative in this relationship with Margot's character. Yeah, he thinks he's got all the time in the world. And he doesn't. Turns out, yeah, he's wrong. This guy's right around the corner. Um, but it's interesting. Um, but it's, interesting because it's like you're playing you know more like indecision more wariness than confidence which i don't is that is that more challenging in a way like to is it is it is it easier in a way for like a better term to play the guy that has bravado that comes in with like

a lot of energy and this guy is not that he's more muted in it yeah i think but i don't know really i mean there's certainly there's come that there's something very fun about just playing the front footed guy who's going to come in here you know kicking us and taking names type thing but then And there's also something about, there's something closer to me about, you know, being kind of slightly more pensive about all of these things. Right. I mean, the way that I always saw it with Loomis

was that he comes into this situation, he meets this woman, he thinks she's the only, she thinks she's the only other woman, possibly the only woman in the world. And he is at this point, he thinks, the only man in the world. So yes, he thinks he's got all the time in the world. And he wants to take it slowly because he's terrified, essentially, of

of getting into a bad relationship with the last woman on the planet, which would be awful. Right, right. I mean, because where are you going to go? You know, it's like there's nothing to be done. So he's sort of playing it

to that all of these building blocks of this relationship are kind of perfectly, you know, aligned, if you like. Yeah. And of course, all of that was blown out the water by by the arrival of Caleb, who is, again, sort of a front-footed guy

who's much more instinctual who kind of goes for what he wants. and therefore is able to completely outmaneuver Loomis. You know, no matter how much Loomis sort of tries to re-kind of manipulate the situation. Right. So that dynamic, Loomis's initial dynamic, was something that I totally related to, you know, that are much more than being kind of front-footed about it. You know, it's like that this kind of nuance and this sort of approach would probably end up being closer to what I would do, especially as kind of almost because he's the sort of scientist, he's knowledgeable,

she's a little young, you know, significant, not significantly, be, you know, a bit younger than her. And, and so there's something, yeah, there's something slightly paternalistic about their relationship as he's teaching her how to use technology to improve their situation in these things. And so for all of those reasons, I think there would be a kind of, a slowness to act, a kind of a creeping relationship, you know, that, but that doesn't work out for him. No, no, but it's fun to watch. It's fascinating to see, you know, within genres or whatever, like how many different ways there are to skin a cat. I mean, you know, we've seen so many manner of post-apocalyptic things, zombie movies, et cetera.

This is not that certainly, though it shares a milieu that's somewhat familiar in some other films. It also strikes me, I'm sure, I don't know if people have brought this up, maybe my favorite TV show of the last year in a totally different level is The Last Man on Earth. Sure. Which has done a very comedic kind of take, which even has like a similar kind of escalation to this one. I don't have you seen it. I have seen it now, yeah, because people have been sort of talking about it in relation to this film. In terms of that one relationship and then kind of like a third coming in and some more

and just sort of the complexities of these intimate relationships. Yeah, it's really great. Have you just to have checked it out then? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's crazy. And so, yeah, I think it's a fascinating idea, you know, so it's good to be kind of part of that kind of zeitgeist, if you like, you know, that people are kind of coming up with this. Wouldn't it be great to explore this, you know? Obviously, they explore it in terms of broad comedy and it's very funny, you know.

And this is the kind of the sort of nuance of ratcheting up the tension just between two people, you know, to two, two, then three people. And they're kind of emotional life, you know. and how they are brought into conflict with each other over the basis of actually not many, but very sort of important distinctions and differences in outlook and attitude, especially in the end, religion, you know, and how, although it's not overstated, and I don't think anything that Craig does in this film

is like an overstated beat. But it's certainly the one thing that I think we sense increasingly, you know, minoritizing Loomis, you know. is that the two of them start to bond over the fact that they both have faith, or at least we know that Anne does, but we can either suspect that Caleb is, as Loomis suspects, perhaps, that Caleb is kind of inventing his faith in order to be at our maneuver,

Loomis to create a broader relationship with Anne. And it's interesting, I mean, this, like, and I've seen compliance, which is excellent as well, with Craig's last film, And similar to that one, it's exceptional at putting an audience in the shoes of these characters, and you constantly are kind of questioning what you would do in these very provocative situations. And I mean, are you, is that the kind of like conversation you have on set,

or is it more about, like, technique or work? Like, I mean, are you guys, the three principal actors and Craig, are you guys, like, talking through sort of the loftier notions of what this all means, or is it more nitty-gritty, like, where does my hand go here and that kind of the thing? Where's it both? I think it's between the two, you know, it's, I think the conversations that we were having ended up being very, very detailed about text, you know, like, you know, because as we got to know each other and as we got deeper and deeper and deeper into this and as we developed a kind of shorthand for things, you know, we were sort of gather in a little huddle, you know, with the script and go through beats of it, and to anybody else, it would be very subtle distinctions that we were talking about. But because we were kind of aware that everything,

every sort of nuance in the film had sort of major kind of ramifications, you know, and had major, like a bit of important in, you know, in how the characters are perceived and what the characters are thinking and what they want, you know. So if Anne looks at Loomis a certain way and then glances at Caleb, it just means a whole plethora of things, you know, if she doesn't look at Caleb and she looks at Loomis or she looks to him for advice on one thing and not Caleb,

you know, every single sort of beast in turn. and look and feeling gives so much to the story. So it was just sort of trying to find the balance of that. So not necessarily talk about the wider themes entirely, but to talk in quite detailed terms about where we were and what the affections were and how they were going to be manifested in any given moment. Since we have some time, I do want to talk about a lot of stuff throughout your career that I've admired over the years.

You know, if many great things came out of 12 years of slave, perhaps, not necessarily the best thing, but a good thing is that many more people know how to pronounce your name. This is a good thing. Is there a smaller percentage of your conversations that revolve around just your name? Yeah, yeah. Is that a good thing? It might be a good defense mechanism, too. It's like, oh, great, we're going to spend 40% of the conversation just talking about my name. So that I don't have to talk, yeah, yeah. Exactly. Yeah, no, sure, sure, sure. Did your friends call you Chewy? Is that, like, a kind of thing? No, everybody calls me Chewetown. Is that right? Okay. I was wondering if there was like some kind of, like, understanding of Chubaka in some way

do you have any kind of interesting relationship with that character considering his moniker? No, but Chooey was something that I was called growing up when I was a kid just through school but I mean it makes my teeth itch really to hear it and so that's the only relationship I then have with Chubaka is that when they call it when I hear it like even in the Star Wars trailer

the other day when he says Chewy and then the hair stood up on the back of You're the only person that's going through this horrible crisis. Everyone's so excited. It's not about the film. I love the rest of the trailer. It's just that exact moment, you know. You're just standing up in the theater.

Don't call him that hard on it. Tobacco, he doesn't appreciate it. He doesn't like the accord Chooey. He has a name. He has a name. Does you ever ask Chubaker if you could shorten his name? I bet he did it. Also, it's not the kind of guy that would ask.

He would just come up with that. He's like, I can call you Chui, right? You know, Shubka can't even answer. are back. More on Star Wars. Your thoughts on charge our vicks. Now, let me go there. Give me a sense of growing up.

What were you into, pop culture-wise? Like, theater, film, TV, were they all big parts of you growing up? Not really theater. You know, I mean, when I was young, young, you know, I only sort of got into theater when I started doing theater. So when I was, like, I mean, I was young,

essentially, because I was 13, 14. But then, you know, some people started going, you know, when they were infants, basically. But, yeah, I mean, all of the sort of the same, I'd just imagine it's the same things that, you know, you grew up, but you know what I mean, it's like, it's interesting that as well, of being sort of, because of the kind of spread and Americanization of culture in a way, that you can be in a completely different country and still have a lot of the same reference points. You were still seeing our crappy sitcoms over there, basically. We're sorry, by the way. On behalf of America, I'm sorry. Exactly. But it's a good thing in the sense that, you know, coming to, I mean, I'm moving to America, that you kind of have so much of a kind of cultural similarity in terms of growing up.

But certainly with movies, I mean, that was the whole thing, you know. And so Star Wars, of course, was massive for me and back to the future and, you know, all of that kind of. I think the first film I ever saw in the cinema was a cocoon, actually. Oh, yeah? Yeah, in Ilford, Cilomide, East London. And I can't have been, I must have been quite, because when was that? It's 85, I would say. Yeah, so I was eight in 85.

So that makes about, that's about right. You know, here's my craziest fun fact I learned about Kukun. This is my job. 85, you were like, 805, I'd say. I was like, you try to slide that past me. I'm like, what? I'm pretty sure. I'm not asking about Kekun.

I'm convinced you're right, and I'm scared. You should be. Here's my other fun fact about Kikoon, besides knowing the year it was released. This boggles the mind. Wilfer Brimley in that film, I think Tom Cruise is now older than Wilfer Brimley was when he shot coco. No way. That is crazy.

Which is insane on just so many levels, like, however you want to, like, decide that Tom is just, like, defying age. And also, Wilford Brimley was aging a little prematurely. Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's scary.

Wow. I didn't mean to bring it down. Are you okay? Yeah, that's just weird. That's just weirded me out. So you were into kind of, like, the major stuff that every kid went back to the future

is the poster on my wall in my office. I still think to that stuff. Yeah, it's a great movie. It's a movie that, you know, it really is that kind of film that you could turn, that even if I hadn't seen as many times I had done

you could turn the sound down and really follow the movie and know what was going on and it's so complex but it's such brilliantly brilliant narrative storytelling is that the goal in respect I know it's not like

when you approach a project maybe you can't think about it this way but like I suppose one of the goals at the end of the day is to have as many of those on the CV your resume as possible the ones that kind of like that feel that

transcend time and can be appreciated by multiple generations that don't feel oh for sure I mean you can't I mean, you can't try and do that on the floor. You know what I mean? You can't be like, right. Guys, let's try and make a classic here.

You know, but yeah, of course, the hope is that the film kind of captures something and therefore really just really works and people feel that they can come back to it and find that they have more to gain in mind from it and see into it. And, you know, those are the things that I, you know, that I adore when I was, you know, going up and, you know, watching movies, watching filmmakers, you know, that could, you know, in the process of watching the movie, you knew that you could revisit this film, you know, a hundred, you know, a hundred times, and that's the, that's the skill of, you know, Scorsese or Ridley Scots or, you know, Antingella, the English patient, you know, and even like, you know,

I felt like even films like Howard's End had this kind of Emma Thompson that film is so extraordinary and luminous and they just had this film

that you just knew you were watching something that could always, that would always stay with you and always be kind of rewarding to see. It's interesting some of those filmmakers

and films you've mentioned I think like what's telling is the specificity of the vision of like they're not necessarily like Howard Zen is a very particular specific tale.

It's not necessarily meant to be universal, and yet it revounds, it works in that way. It finds its way to be there. There might be a lesson there in some way. Yeah, maybe just that idea of being specific, of really telling a compelling story with compelling characters

in a very sort of detailed way. You mentioned one film like you've got a chance to work with, I can just for a second time recently, which is Riddley Scott, who's just remarkable in so many respects talking about age two that this guy is going strong. The Martian looks amazing by the way. I just saw the trailer today.

Does that strike you? Do you have those out-of-body moments when you're working with somebody whose work you've grown up on, whether it's working opposite them as an actor or as a filmmaker? Yeah, I mean, it always, you have, you definitely take a moment

because you're struck by it. In fact, the only person that I, you know, although I kind of grew up watching Ridley's films, it was really when I met David Mamet and we did Red Belt together was the first moment of me having to really explain, like I had to stop him, put him aside and say, hey, listen, I've got to tell you,

She's got to get the sound like your system. Yeah, you're the only person that I've ever worked with that I have also studied. Yeah. And I did, when we were school, he was obviously studying his plays. Yeah. And that was kind of, you know, amazing for me. He felt it made him seem old. By the way, I really enjoyed Redwell.

It's an underrated film, and a lot of his directing work, I feel, has been, I don't know if it's because of release or whatever, but, like, I think back to Spanish Prisoner, House of Games. real gems in there that people haven't paid enough attention to in a way. So talk to me a little bit about, okay, so you're a kid, you're into all the stuff, the same stuff I'm into, yet you clearly went on a different path than me and many others. When did acting become a serious thing and a vocation or potential vocation for you? It sort of became serious immediately.

I mean, immediately that as soon as I started doing stage work, you know, which started at high school and, you know, and it was out of, really out of the literature and trying to, it was kind of Henry the 4th Part 1 which was I found really boring I was going to say that's tough stuff for a kid I mean really boring on a wet Wednesday

you know staring out of the window and then suddenly something clicked you know something happened and I think there was a sort of there's a monologue somewhere in the third act you know or the second act that Howe does and it just completely resonated

and I suddenly thought I understood poetry that day, I think, and I felt like I had discovered Shakespeare, you know, but just me, you know, so I would go and tell people and say, listen, this guy, he's saying something. I should check this out. I don't know if you heard of it, like, 400 years. Oh, my gosh, he's really right on it. And people would be like, what?

There's a section in every bookstore devoted to. Exactly. Been to Stratford-upon-Avon? It's like a city book to the guy. And did you have, like, immediate kind of validation? Like, were people immediately saying, like, hey, you're pretty good at this? Because, I mean, that's an impressionable time for a kid. I feel like if you hear that, you're like, oh, I'm going to continue doing that thing.

People were very supportive when I started, you know, because I, and I would do, like, you know, I went down to the, what was called the Edward Allen Hall, which was the theater for the school, the school theater, a great theater, very well-run, you know, theater to have for a school, you know, amazing. But the, but I went down then I did measure for measure, you know, then I was sort of past as Angelo, and it's my first play there, and so it was kind of a big deal to be, you know, one of the leading parts of the play. And, you know, as people, you know, heard and, you know, the teachers, some of the teachers recognized that I had developed an interest in drama.

Sure. You know, there would be, increasingly, I'd be asked to, you know, read out whatever, la, la, la. You know, and people were very encouraging when I was a kid, you know. So I was like 13, 14, 15, and then I went off to the National Youth Theater, which is a big sort of change and really doing a kind of semi-professional productions. And it sounds like reading up on you, I mean, film at least at that time, wasn't necessarily the goal. I mean, you were hardcore.

I mean, you fell in love with theater, and then this crazy opportunity of Amistad happens. Yes, that was your first film, yeah? That was my first film. It wasn't the first time I was ever. I did a small TV thing for HBO called A Deadly Voyage before that. But Amistad, and I was a tiny part in that, but Amistad was my first film,

first proper role. Yeah. You know, and which was a kind of, you know, it was amazing. I was 19, and I was at drama school, and they'd allowed me to go because they said, well, because it's Spielberg, you're allowed to go. It's the famous Spielberg exemption. Exactly. That everybody knows. Spilberg, Kubrick or whatever.

The five filmmakers. Yeah. You can go, be good practice for you, blah, blah, blah. Sure. And so anyway, I got the part and headed to Los Angeles. I heard somewhere you tell the story, which amused me because I've sadly spent. spent some time there working, you spent a lot of time in, what, like, Century City and, like, in the Universal and, like, the... Yeah, City Walk.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I was at the Universal Sheraton. Right. They put me up at the Universal Sheraton, and I didn't drive, you know, so I was just up in Citywalk every day, thinking that that was Hollywood. That's all you need. This is, this is a hard rock cafe. Cineabonds. Yeah, exactly. It's, like, the best place on the planet Earth, you know. It's like, I can see why the magic is here. Everybody got a dream, you know. What's your relationship? with, like, L.A. now. Are you, I mean, are you comfortable out there? Do you ever spend time out there? I mean, do you have a place there?

Yeah, I have a place there. I have a house there. And, uh, and, uh, and, uh, and spend quite a lot of time there. You know, I've been doing a play in London, so less time in the last year and sort of not as much time as in the past. But, you know, I have a great, you know, relationship with, uh, with L.A. It's, uh, it's, it's, it's sort of, it's a very interesting place. It's different to, to London, as I can imagine kind of anywhere, but it's, and you just still keep going back to Citywalk. That's the only And there's any place I feel like them.

Is that the guy from 12 years of slave just going to the Orange Julius stand? Don't look at me and don't call me chewing. Yeah, exactly. There's two things. Exactly. Exactly. You mentioned we were talking when you sat down. You are nearing the end of a run in London.

I mean, theater, again, like this is clearly like something that after Amoslav, for instance, you went back and you probably had some opportunities or the plan trajectory on paper. is like, okay, film career, let's double down. But that wasn't necessarily what you wanted at the time. Yeah, I just didn't feel like a film actor, you know. I didn't feel like that that was going to be my, it didn't feel like that was going to be the way that I would express my artistic life. I always felt like I would do it on, in theater, on stage.

And so after, and I hadn't fulfilled any of my ambitions at that point theatrically, you know, I hadn't, because I was at drama school when I went off to work with Spilbert, so I still wanted to work with the Royal Shakespeare Company, for example, or the national theater or to go to the West End or to do, you know. Sure. And I think back then, even 20 years ago, they still, there wasn't that tradition that there is now of theater actors being movie stars, movie stars, being theater actors, whatever. Things were quite, like, a little bit more compartmentalized, maybe not as much as it had been then, you know, 20 years before that, in the 60s or anything. But there still was that sort of the sense of that a little bit. so it felt like having a career in the theater and working in the theater

was something that was really important to me and I hadn't achieved and so I went back and joined the National Theater and so on and carried on. Do you experience any fear on stage at this point? Is it all just like a constant? Is it a rush? Is it just a sense of like comfort

of like this is what I do? I know what I'm doing so I got this or is there an up and down kind of emotion that goes along with it? There's a feeling that is that I think is a kind of, I don't know how to describe it because it's not exactly nerves

and it's not exactly excitement, but it can feel like either one depending on what you decide to feel. And it kind of happens around the first time that you're doing, like say, a first preview or maybe an opening night or whatever, that I now have this feeling that I can either be like, oh, this is me being nervous, or if I decide, no, this isn't actually nervous,

this is just, I'm really excited and I can't wait to do this. Yeah. You know, and it feels like both somehow. Right. So it's quite interesting. I always, you know, there's a kind of, there's always that distinction now when you go on stage is that, you know, one, you used to always think of going on stage

or something that you had to sort of an inhale of breath and on you go and, you know, here we are with the show. And I guess the change is that now I just go on stage, you know. There's no moment of like the mask comes on. No, I mean, I got, you know, and the character comes on, but it's like, it just, it's an organic process of being on stage to present a story. It's not kind of prepared in the same way. Maybe healthier in a way, just more or...

Yeah, I think it's more about sitting into it and being able to explore a narrative with an audience in a kind of, in a sort of naturalistic, with stagecraft. I mean, you are still hitting the back of the theater, but, you know, in a way that isn't just projected or tense or, you know, It's just allowed, you know. Did you see, currently also on the stage is Benedict, Benedict Cumberbatch is doing. I haven't seen him yet, I look forward to it. Did you see the video he shot after he was, I guess he was frustrated, which I can imagine

all every actor feels to a different degree, where people were like videotaping or whatever. Yeah, he's lovely, Benedict, you know. Have you experienced that yourself in terms of, like, frustrations with audiences, and are you able to... Yeah, but I mean, I don't, it's, yeah, it's slightly different with him at the moment, because he's in that slightly hysterical area that people... He's a meme. he's a walking meme. Yeah, and, you know, that people have, so people do stuff like that to me, but it's not

hysterical, you know, it's like, it's sort of, it's just thoughtless, you know, but it's not, it's not loads of people or something, it's not everybody, you know. Right. So, you know, so, yeah, I find, I mean, you know, the fact that he kind of had to do that, I mean, I suppose he had to, you know, but I, when I watched it, I just thought that he, you know, he just spoke so generously with everybody and eloquently and was very, and I thought, gosh, I wonder if, even if in that segment, I'd be able to, because I'd be so frustrated that I'd probably come out

and express that in the wrong way and then escalate the situation and make it worse. But I feel like he did it. He just has a way, and it's his charisma and its character. It's so annoying. I'm going to try certain things negative. It's just annoying, to me. You're going to be working with him soon.

I am, I am. It sounds like, a Doctor Strange, this has been confirmed now. I feel badly at Sundance. I was one of those many that was like, Dr. Strange, I'm here, Dr. Strange, and you rightfully clammed up because it was a little premature. Is that, I mean, I know you can't say much about it,

but is it exciting, well, talk to me about this. I mean, I assume this is one of those things where maybe you had to sign on without, like, a script. Like, it was kind of like an amorphous, like you maybe got a chance to talk to Scott or Kevin Feigy or Benedict, I don't know. Is that a leap? Did it feel like a leap to get involved

in a project like this when there's less of like knowing exactly every word you're doing? I'm not going to say much about. Oh, no. We're rack and Sundance. What happened? We were so good. Even with that intro.

Which was very cunning. I liked it very much. You know my techniques. I'm not going to say, but you've been warned. Are you boned up? Have you read some comics? You can say that. Have I read, comic?

Am I read, have I read some comics? Do you have a bat of Baron Mordo comics waiting for you at home? Obviously, I'm into the reading of all the dot's strange and all of the material and everything that's out there. And I'm very excited about jumping in. Man, they've got you. They've got the snipers out.

It's not like a nice civil comp. No! Not before he gets his last orange Julius. You talk about, going back a little bit, you talked about being kind of goal-oriented of having some things you want to accomplish in the theater back then. Are you still someone that sort of has that,

whether it's filmmakers or types of parts or types of films? Is that helpful to have that kind of mindset? Like, you know, I'm at this age, I want to get this done by this age, that sort of thing. Yeah, I mean, I suppose I have. had, had in the past, that kind of, you know, methodology.

Yeah. And certainly, as we were saying, when I was, you know, when I be, you know, a theater actor, that was all my kind of, you know. And I, but I realized very quickly that none of that is, it's just meaningless. Yeah. It's a waste of time. Yeah, in total, that's a waste of time.

Nothing that I thought would happen in the sequential way that, you know, everything turned into completely something else and it never, you know. So, so you can't do it like that. You just got to kind of play it as in life. You know, you just got to play it like moment to moment. You make a certain amount of plans, obviously, but not something that you are kind of trying to wrestle with or, you know, square peg, ground hole or whatever.

You know, you are free and open to the movement of the universe, if you like. And I would think that's difficult, especially after that experience of like 12 years of slave, which became such a monumental experience for many different reasons. Award season and resonating with audiences and importance of the material, of it, because that can screw with an actor's head, I would think, we're like, okay, Oscar nominated actor, this film wins all these awards, should I be doing different sorts of things now? Is there a playbook to the kind of roles I should be going after now? Was there a little bit of that, or was it sort of like, you've done this long enough, you know the game where

like, no, trust my instincts, still go towards Zeefer Zacharias, the ones that resonate. I mean, I think that's definitely true. You can't worry about any of it. You know, you can't be, you just can't think about what, it all, what you, how you fit and what that then means in the kind of construct. I think you've just got to play, do the work as honesty as you can and, and be engaged with what you're, with what you're engaged with, you know, and it's size or the medium of it or, you know, I mean, I know for me, I still have to do theater pretty regularly. I love, you know, doing things that are kind of, that are nuanced and small and having, like, emotional relevance and weights and heft because they inspire me and they engage me. I also am happy to, you know, do things that are entertaining, you know, and just full on, you know, because that's, I get pleasure from that as a cinema gower as well. And so that's part of the, so, which allows me to have kind of a really broad net, you know, and to be able to look at a lot. large kind of amount of material from different places, but I've never been able to kind

of, to, I've never had an Uber or a genre and I've never really decided anything because of a factor other than the material itself and the other people involved and so on. But, but certainly, you know, after 12 years, you know, what I wanted to do was, you know, knuckle down to something that I thought was interesting, that I thought kind of had something to say. And Zifa Zechariah definitely did that. There's the fact, I want to mention in our remaining time a couple filmmakers that just I'm a huge fan of, and I'm sure you are too, having worked with them or just being a fan. He worked with Spike a couple times, so it's relatively early on.

Give me a sense. This is a guy that knows what he wants. He doesn't suffer fools. My experience just isn't like what I do. And that could actually apply to, now that I think about it, a few of the filmmakers you've worked with, whether it's Ridley or Stephen Frears, guys that sort of just, they know it. There's not much bullshit. Yeah. Right?

Is that, do you gravitate towards a certain kind of filmmaker? or did you click with Spike for any particular reason, or? I just, I like Spike a lot, you know, for all of those reasons. I thought he was really interesting. He's very direct, you know, and, you know, and, you know, and he kind of, and he, he just expects you to get to the point that he is kind of, that he can shoot what you're doing and feel good about it. You know what I mean?

And it's not like he's going to, you know, talk you up the mountain. He's going to, he expects him to me. You're professional. Yeah, it's like, let's get this going. Got the camera here, let's do the thing, yeah. And I like that. You know, I like that. I think he's somebody who just has, he, for me, he always encapsulated to what all great

filmmakers possess, you know, which is just a watchful eye and a powerful voice. And I think that he, that Spike is really somebody. And in those films that we did, you know, I think that he's somebody who really kind of, you know, captured a kind of moment, which is why they're so infinitely watchable, I think. As a stereotypical born-and-bred New Yorker, I have to bring up Woody Allen, as I do. do with every person I talk to on the podcast. That's work with him, and you've worked with him on Melinda, Melinda. That's true.

Did it feel like, were all the stories true that you had heard going in? Did it feel like, again, he's somebody that doesn't necessarily, from what I hear, talk through it. He sort of, like, lets you do your thing. Yeah. Did you find that to be an environment that was comfortable? Again, that feels like such a level of surrealness to be on a Woody Allen's set that must just be insane.

Yeah, it's interesting to go through those experiences and be, relatively, you know, I was quite young when I was, you know, and I, and I felt that, you know, if I knew quite the style that he worked in, yeah, I would have slightly prepared for him in a different way, you know, because maybe I did expect, like, or think that there would be kind of more of a kind of dialogue about it, yeah, of just like figuring it out together, the kind of thing that I was doing, we've been doing onesie for Zechariah, with Craig, whatever, but because there isn't really that, you know, I, I. I remember feeling like that it was, that, just having, I remember just having to come up to

speed with, yeah, with it, you know, very quickly and, I would think there's that sense of that time is running out, it's like, oh, wait, I thought we were going to get another shot at that, or it's like, Clint notoriously does a couple takes, it's like, and then that's that, yeah, but that's, you know, I think I turned up in the first day, I'm in Melinda and Melinda, and I remember it all being set up, the lights and everything, and I had to, you sort of, there was a, you know, there was just some, you know, just in the lighting rig, there was just like a little cutting and I had to get underneath it and I sat down in a seed and there was Rada and there was Chloe and and and the camera was on me and and what he said okay

turn over I was like all rolling they said and rolling and rolling and that was it you know there was no conversation right and then we're into a very lengthy dialogue scene sort of immediately and so it was kind of like that and so there's a lot of kind of catching up to do and thinking, okay, let me get ahead of this because it's not going to be a dialogue-y... Sure. Did you know what you were getting into

in terms of you expanded your fan base forever thanks to Serenity, being in the Jossow-Weed universe? Like, that's... They'll be with you to live right. Whether you like it or not, they're with you, man. Did you kind of know that going in? Had you... I didn't. It's been... I was been a great experience.

You know, that was always, you know, because I loved that film and I loved working with Jars. And I didn't... I didn't actually know much about, you know, Firefly, and, you know, they had to send me. that material. And I happened to be in LA. And I remember just, I remember my next girlfriend of mine, we were in an apartment in, in Los Angeles. And I think she had like, she was holding, I think she was holding the laundry, like, just holding a bag of laundry when I put in the first

tape. Yeah. And I put in the first day, and I stood back and I was standing, you know, watching the thing, as was she. And it was the first episode. So, I was the first episode. So pilot episode, and the half of the first hour, you know, she put down the laundry. Mesmerized him slowly. And then we sat in the bed and put in the second episode. And I just watched. Dirty clothes for a week. We had beenge watching before binge watching was the thing.

There you go. And it was great. Been watching anything lately? Are you TV? You know, I actually, because I was doing a film with Aaron Paul and I got really embarrassed because I hadn't seen... Right. You know, a lot of...

I'd seen some part of the beginning, but I somehow missed the Breaking Bad, kind of, you know. And so everyone's sad, and I just felt continually, felt awkward because I... You'd move to the other side of the set when people would start talking

about breaking back. Exactly. And everybody was like, I was like, why does everybody call you bitch, you know? Why do they hate you, so? You don't seem like that much of a jerk.

I mean, I got, it felt like an idiot. Right. So I binge watched Breaking Bad, and it was... As advertised, right? Phenomenal.

It's amazing. Phenomenal. Isn't that funny, though, how you feel like that? I felt like that, I mean, it's my job to talk to actors continuously, and I, but I have not seen Game of Thrones. And I'm continuously, like, embarrassed to no end. And it's for no discernible reason other than I just haven't gotten around to it yet. Yeah. I know I'll love it when I get to it.

I'm sorry. It's a busy life, guys. Cut me some slack. Yeah, yeah. But you know what it's like, it's sort of like at this point, it becomes like, you know, homework or something. You know what I mean? In the idea that you are. you're going to have to, you're going to do it anyway.

Of course. And now you're going to have to binge what's, now you're going to have to take a week to get all seven seasons or whatever. You know, if you just kept up with it bit by bit. I get it, Thuettel. And in the final exams,

you wouldn't have to study. I'm breaking bad, I can say the exact same thing to you. That's true. I learned my lesson. Now I watch it as it's happening. The sage-like wisdom of Chutel, Edge, what are you off to next? After you wrap the place soon,

do you know what you're shooting next? Well, I'll shoot Dr. Strange. And, yeah. Oh, now you can say it. I mean, you know that I'm going to shoot Dr. Strait, so that's what I'd be like, you know, he suddenly caught me out. I'm very psyched to see. I mean, as I said, see you for Zachary. It's a great piece of work.

All three of you in it, kill it. Craig's direction. It's impeccable. And I wish you the best of luck on it, and looking forward to actually being able to talk about Dr. Strange. You promise we'll actually be able to talk. We will. There's no doubt. Okay, good.

Thanks for stopping by today. A pleasure. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Merry Christmas. I'm ho-ho, the naughty elf, but I know it's not Christmas, so I don't give a shit. I live at the North Pole where I have to make dopt toys for shitty kids, and it makes me wish I could kill myself.

But I'm immortal! See you forever. The only thing that keeps me going is my favorite podcast with special guest, Lauren Lauer. Kiss, oh, it's so good. I love it. I would have married it. Every week's like a whole new show where a different comedian is the host

and Lauren is the guest. It makes me so excited I want to kill a cat and skit its bones and eat them for dinner. Yum. I don't know. Anyways, listen to this clip. Your gaze is so judgmental.

I just, no. Inside, you have a perfect body. You just don't take care of it. If we could just carve you out of there, we'd have a perfect statue. But you down those. Flaming hot Cheetos and donut. They're disgusting.

So good. You talk about my tan hands. Well, you have red fingers. That's the sign of a true snacker. Did you like that? Did you? You'd better like it. Or this year, Santa's coming down your chimney and dumping coal over your dumb-ass house.

I can make him do that. Check out with special guest Lauren Lapkis today at Earwolf.com on Howl or your favorite podcast app, you dumb little butthole. Ho-ho! I'm Amy Nicholson, the film critic for the LA Times. And I'm Paul Shear, an actor, writer, and director. You might know me from The League, Veep, or my non-eligible for Academy Award role in Twisters. We love movies, and we come at them from different perspectives.

Yeah, like Amy thinks that, you know, Joe Pesci was miscast in Goodfellas, and I don't. He's too old. Let's not forget that Paul thinks that Dude, too, is overrated. It is. Anyway, despite this, we come together to host Unspooled, a podcast where we talk about good movies, critical hits. Fan favorites, musts season, and case you miss them. We're talking Parasite the Home Alone. From Greece to the Dark Night.

We've done deep dives on popcorn flicks. We've talked about why Independence Day deserves a second look. And we've talked about horror movies, some that you've never even heard of like Ganges and Hess. So if you love movies like we do, come along on our cinematic adventure. Listen to Unspooled wherever you get your podcast. And don't forget to hit the follow button. I don't know.