Happy Sad Confused - Christian Bale

Episode Date: December 25, 2017

When your name has become a verb to other actors, you know you're doing something right. ie. If you're "pulling a Christian Bale", then you've probably just gained or lost a tremendous amount of weight all in the interest of transforming for a role. He's done it a few times. Down for "The Machinist". Way back up for Batman. Down again for his Oscar winning role in "The Fighter". And guess what, he's back up again to play none other than Dick Cheney in a upcoming film. That's the Christian Bale who sat with Josh for this episode of "Happy Sad Confused", an actor who relishes going all in. And he goes all in for this conversation, speaking with surprising candor about what it took to play a man who dresses up as a bat, why he regrets his Terminator movie, and how he moved on from that infamous leaked audio meltdown on the set of that same film.  All of that plus the tantalizing fact that one franchise Christian could envision himself joining is Star Wars! Christian's new film is "Hostiles" from director Scott Cooper. It's now out in theaters.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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or go to explorevolvo.com. Don't miss Swiped, a new movie inspired by the provocative real-life story of the visionary founder of online dating platform Bumble. Played by Lily James, Swiped introduces recent college grad Whitney Wolf as she uses grit and ingenuity to break into the male-dominated tech industry to become the youngest female self-made billionaire. An official selection of the Toronto International Film Festival, the Hulu original film Swiped, is now streaming only on Disney Plus. Today on Happy Sack Confused, Christian Bale on Hostiles, Batman, and the movie He Regrets. Hey, guys, I'm Josh Horowitz. Welcome to another edition of Happy Sack Confused. Hey, Sammy.

Hi. What movie do you regret in your career, your illustrious career? Probably. You can be one you've watched. What movie do you regret sitting down to watch? Um, what movie do I regret sitting down to watch? Probably, what was one movie I really hated that everyone loved? I don't know, maybe Star Wars.

Oh, my God. I'm just kidding. I just did that for your pure reaction. You do have issues of Star Wars. I do have issues with Star Wars. I don't regret seeing that movie. Well. I regret seeing Bad Santa.

The first Bad Santa? No, the second one. Oh, yeah. Bad Santa, too, is a horrible horrible horrible way. The first one's kind of good. No, the first one's great. Yeah. The second one was like, I remember being like, I regret this.

Okay, good answer. Good answer. Yay, Sammy. Well done. Yeah, good job. Excellent. Excellent. Thank you. So the guest today, Sammy, it's Christian Bail. I can't believe it. Why? Do you think he made an error in agreeing to be on a happy second? Yeah, I do. Obviously, I do. I don't think he knew what he was getting himself into.

You don't think he's above it? Yeah, I do. Well, I will say he knew what he was getting into because... Well, yeah, tell everyone what he said to you. First thing Christian said when I saw him... Christian. That's what he called it. Mr. Bell? Chris.

Okay. Did you call him Christian? Yes. Like you said, hey, Christian, how's it going? Actually, I think, you know, my default is, hey, man. Yeah. What's up? Got it.

No, the first thing he said to me was he apologized because his knee isn't doing so well. So he apologized, that would mean he would not be able to jump for the happy second-fused photos. Further context, years ago, Christian was actually one of the early happy-sac-infused photo victims. and he jumped for happy. And this has been a great source of pride and a very useful thing for me in the years since that photo because especially in the first year

of doing those silly photos, I would often, when I was going to do one with a celebrity that I didn't really know well and I had to explain the concept, I would pull up the Christian Bale photo figuring if you see Christian Bale willing to make a fool of himself for me, like he's not just posing, he went into character.

Yeah, he went for it. So I've always respected Christian, not for his work, but for the fact that he jumped for me. Yes. Yes, the work, too. He's an amazing actor. I don't need to tell you that. He's the best. What's your favorite Christian Bell movie?

One. You have to pick one. You can't name the trilogy. You have to name one movie. The one of the Dragons rain of fire? No, I do like that one. No, I guess I would go with Dark Knight then. Incorrect.

Okay. What's the correct answer? There's only one correct answer. Go ahead. The prestige. I love the prestige. I love the prestige. Yes, and that is our favorite.

There's a Christian Bale movie for every mood. There's American Psycho. There's the Dark Night Trilogy. There's the Machinist to watch him go all hardcore Christian Bail on you. He's so hot now. Again, wrong answer. Very much the wrong answer. So his new movie, I should mention, is called Hostiles.

It is a Western, reteaming him with filmmaker Scott Cooper. They made a movie that was, it didn't get, I think, a huge response. It was well reviewed, but it was a movie called Out of the Furnace a few years back. They clearly get along very well. Scott Cooper also did Black Mass and Crazy Heart. Really, actors love working with him, and he's, you know, somebody that really draws out very great performances. And this one, this Western is a pretty brutal one. It starts Christian Baal alongside West Studi, Rosamann Pikes in it.

and it's basically about an officer who has to kind of transport a Cheyenne chief by West Studi to a burial ground and it kind of brings up conflicting emotions. He obviously doesn't have a lot of love for the Cheyenne people considering the things they've done to his comrades in arms

but you know it's a story that not about black hats and white hats it's shades of gray as the best Westerns are and Christian, as always, delivers a fantastic performance. So you should definitely check out hostiles now playing at a theater near you. Not a comedy. No.

Not a Christian Bell comedy. No, no, no, no, no. Isn't someone else in it, the sweetheart of 2017? Isn't Timothy Chalmay in it? Yes, Timothy Chalmay is in it. I just got really scared. I was like, I'm going to sound so stupid. Timothy Chalmey is in it.

By the way, did I tell you I saw Timothy over the weekend? You didn't. I did a little Q&A. Oh, I thought like on the street. No, I have run into him on the street, though, too. I did a Q&A with Timothy for, call me by your name, of course. And I have to say, just like a little tangent since we brought up Timothy. Yeah, my fault.

Timmy. Now I know I can call him that. I feel like we're at that stage. He, first of all, I still adore him. He's great. Got to meet some of his friends. I love them because they assumed that I was in their age group. Fools.

Like, were you like, uh, cool kids? Sike. Basically, basically. Yeah. I know what's jiggy. Um,

but I will say, so I did a little Q&A with him at the Union Square, uh, a real Union Square, uh, Saturday night. And I've seen this once or twice before where you feel the palpable star making happening for somebody.

And that audience there was primed and excited. to see Timmy Chalamay. They were worked up. And they were waiting downstairs. They were waiting outside. They were waiting outside the theater. It was like for a guy that six months ago, no one knew who he was. No one knew who he was. I've seen this with the Pattinson's and the Ansel Elgorts. And I've been through this. Do you think it's Lady Bird fans or Call Me By Your Name fans? I think it's all of it. But I think Call Me By Your Name is definitely the thing that people are latching on to. I know even from that conversation we had people in that audience were talking about having seen the film like not once but like twice five times like it's not been out that long guys

so there's uh i predict i predict great things for this kid yay mark your words um so ends the timothy shallmay tangent um but anyway to to christian bail because this was something i've been trying to get christian on the podcast for a while you mean it's amazing i'm such a fan of his work um i mean the guy is a chameleon we know this machine from down to god knows how many pounds for the machinist Back up to play Batman. Yeah, the David O'Russell movies. The Fighter he won the Oscar for. Oh, my God. Yes.

He was so good in that. He's good. He's another one who's going to make it, I think. So not to mention the fact that he's a great interview. He's a great interview because he, you know, and I say this in the conversation, he just doesn't seem to like, he's not into the BS of the business. You know, oftentimes people are surrounded by the publicists and handlers. It was just me and him in a room.

I felt like I could ask him anything. and certainly I went to places that I was like, oh, should I go there? So, yes, like, for instance, we talk about that infamous incident on the set of Terminator Salvation, where, you know, he went off and that audio leaked out. We talk about that. We talk about Batman at length, and, you know, you never know how much people want to rehash that kind of stuff. But he was more than game to go there and talk about anywhere I want to go. So I appreciate his candor and its honesty.

and not to mention, I discovered that I think Christian Bale wants to be in a Star Wars movie guys. Maybe you don't want to see him in one Sammy because you hate Star Wars. You're really getting out of control with this. No, but I asked him about the rumors that he was apparently up for, they wanted him for the Han Solo movie, and he confirms those. So I'll let the conversation go from there,

but we do talk about Star Wars in this. Oh, I'm intrigued. Then I've done my job. Um, so that is happy, sad, confused for today. Uh, I do want to mention as always, what do I want to mention, Sammy? Review rate and subscribe. I will say, by the way, I've been noticing we've been getting a lot of, um, uh, ratings. People have been, those have been climbing.

We love it. And, um, I will, uh, say that we got a lovely review from, uh, none other than Ken Doll 624. Yes. We, we love Ken Doll 64, who, who rated this five stars. And says, I was heavily influenced by the beginning of this podcast to leave a review, mission accomplished. But honestly, this show is incredible, my favorite podcast by far. Kendall, we love you. We love you so much.

You'd have an extra special 2018. That's right, that's right. And to all of you, happy Sack and Fused fans out there. I hope you had a lovely Christmas and I hope you enjoyed this wonderful conversation with one of the best out there, Christian Bayle. Was that your Batman voice? We talk about the Batman voice, too. He doesn't do it for me, though. Thank God.

He was sitting a little bit away from the mic, though, so hopefully you can hear him. You didn't tell him to speak up. I was, I'm a little into me. He's intimidating. Oh, wait, one more thing I have to say. What? Sorry. We talk about it a little bit, in course, in this conversation.

He's big now. He's gained all this. Do you know about this? Well, he's going to play Dick Cheney, right? He just played Dick Cheney in a movie. And so he's gained, like, at least 40 pounds, and he's not the Christian Bail. You'll see the photos I post. He's not the Christian Bale you're used to seeing.

I can't wait. It's fascinating. Okay. So keep that in mind. Me sitting with Christian Bale plus 40 extra pounds of Christian Bale. A little extra Christian. A little extra Christian. Enjoy this chat.

The reason it's happy set, confused, Christian, is because you were an early victim of the photo series because I was just tired of seeing, like, people take the boring photo with a celebrity to memorialize a conversation. I thought, let's do something postmodern, let's do something absurd. Happy Say Confused was the photo series, when I started a podcast. Yeah, let's call it the same thing. Okay. So here we are. Happy, sad and confused.

But you can just be happy for this conversation if you want. Don't tell me what I can be able, that's not me? That's fair. It's good to see you. I always enjoy talking to you because you've satisfied two prerequisites for me in a great interview, which is you're an actor that I truly respect. Thank you. And you're also somebody. that I feel doesn't put up or enjoy

BS. You're somebody that I feel like just will, you know, tell the truth for good for a vet. That should be the prerequisite for every conversation, but for you I feel like I always get that, so. It should be, but you have to tolerate it to a certain degree for life, don't you? Yes, we've all weren't to kind of

how to do that. Yeah. This, by the way, I caught up a, I was like to watch one of the films of the person I'm talking to the morning or like immediately before talking to them. I've obviously seen hostiles which I want to talk to you about extensively because it's a great piece of work but I watched American Psycho this morning

just why not how's that how's that for morning viewing well I don't know if there's an appropriate time to watch American Psycho but later night yeah I suppose it's a midnight movie it could be that kind of thing but I would say I don't know if you I don't picture it like with the birds chirping and having a nice

cup of coffee and no there were no birds chirping when I watched it but I do have you seen it recently have you no it's an interesting I I hadn't seen it in a while, and, like, you know, our world is obviously in a weird place lately. It did feel like an interesting commentary on, you know, it's a movie, I mean, it's about a lot of things, but I feel like it's about, like, masculinity and vanity run wild. Right.

And I think there's a bit of that in the world today. And it kind of took on a different surprising context for me this morning. So there was a relevance to it that you enjoyed? I did. Yeah? I did. Do you find Relevance in terms also of

Well, Trump That's kind of what I'm getting at Well, Trump's his hero Right Right, he would be Is that in the book? You know what? I don't know if I made that up

Or if it's in the book, I think it probably is in the book Yeah But I could very much see him reading the deal Oh, it makes perfect sense Yeah, he's cut from that cloth It's crazy Yeah, Donald Trump would probably watch American Psycho as a tragedy rather than a

he would sympathize with poor Bateman perhaps then see it as a black comedy or whatever else we'd see it is. There's quite a funny photograph that's online and it was whilst we were filming I believe it was the Dark Night Rises we used Trump Tower and we changed the lettering on the outside

it said Wayne Tower and Mr. Trump arrived and I'll never forget the way he said it he said to me you probably want a photograph with me so let's get that done and I turned and there was photographer ready and I was decked out in full Bruce Wayne

you know, slick back hair, red tie, a little bit Don Jr. look. And we took a picture. And then somebody showed me it recently, and it said, had the picture, and it said, American Psycho with Christian Bell. That's what I thought was. That works. That works.

You became an American citizen when? It was a wonderful moment. I chose to do it. What year was it? It was before my daughter was born, so it's been a good, it's been a good, probably 13, 14 years. I wanted to be able to vote. You can go along to the Staples Center in Los Angeles,

and you can do it with thousands of other people. Oh, nice. But I chose, and I went along to, it was a courtroom, it was a small courtroom, I sat in the jury box, and I was very fortunate to be sworn in with men who had served in the military as their course for becoming American citizens. And it was a very poignant morning.

I'm sure. I mean, I know you've been talking a lot about and justifiably so some of the parallels that have propped up for hostiles with the times we're living in today, and you've obviously just shot this film playing no less than Dick Cheney. There's a lot, I'm sure this running through your head recently.

You know, there's a lot that we're all digesting as Americans in this new world. But you're seeing it now through the prism of these two interesting works of art. I'm just curious, like, your perspective as someone that chose to make this country their home on the world we're living in. now as you try to raise two children.

Well, as someone who, as you say, chose to make this country my home for the reasons of I believed I could achieve my dreams in this country. Yeah. And I would sit on my ass in London and no one would give me a gig at all. And I would come to America and I would get work. It does make me scratch my head about why people. People who have in the last year become very comfortable with expressing hatred towards people who are different from them aren't recognizing what makes this country so special. And as somebody who has grown up in a different country, globally, people look at America as so unique and so special.

and like so many like to say exceptional because of its inclusiveness that it is dumbfounding why some people are trying to say no that's not our ideology and change that and I do think we didn't Scott and I didn't look at hostiles

and predict what we're going through now It was a great story. It's a very raw, visceral, violent story. America's story is very raw, visceral and violent as well. You know, America's history is not for the faint of heart, and neither is this film. And what time of day is this film a good time to watch?

I'm not sure either. Probably also not a necessarily morning cheerier as one. I don't think it has to be as late as American side of that. But I don't imagine it's a first in the morning. No, that first scene alone, you don't want to just wake up to that. No. But it is... It was a gripping story.

It was something I could see I could get obsessed with. You need to become obsessed with these things because you're going to be working on them for months. You don't want to get bored with them. I'm a lucky bugger to get to do what I do. I better be obsessed with what I'm doing. But it wasn't until afterwards that we started recognizing... Ooh, this film's become actually...

very relevant to what's happening in America today. Yeah. It's interesting because, I mean, you allude to the fact that, you know, America has a very checkered past, to say the least. There's some ugly parts of our history and, you know, a lot of the narrative, you know, and I don't want to make it all about the current environment at all. I want to move into talk about movies,

but was so much about, like, making America great again as if, like, the good old days were perfect. And certainly some Westerns are less brutal than this one. Most Westerns are, in fact, I would say, less harsh than this one. This is much more realistic. Well, I would say most Westerns are, well, not most. There's just been many that were very bold. And, you know, this is not the first Western that's been made

and represents relationship between Native Americans and cavalry, cowboys, you want to call it, in this way. but majority of Westerns were white hat, black hat, good cowboy, bad Indian, you know, was his name, Andrew Jackson's, you know, kill the Indian, save the man, they're propaganda, they were propaganda, they weren't the truth, you know, whereas my character Blocker, yes, he's a bigot, yes, he's filled. with hatred. He's seen his very close friends killed. He has reason to have hatred. But he also recognises that the bigger picture is that manifest destiny, in quotes, practically for him, means protecting business interests, land grabbing, and genocide. And so he has absolutely absolute hatred for his nemesis, played by West Studi, Yellowhawk, the Cheyenne Warrior Chief. But he also does have respect, because he knows that were he in Yellowhawk's shoes, he would behave exactly the same way.

Yeah. This was a film. This is your second collaboration with Scott Cooper, who, I mean, this guy knows what he's doing. And it's a testament to the cast that he always assembles. Like, I mean, you know, you have Stephen Lang and Bill Camp, like, in one scene. and I'm like, okay, I'm in safe hands. Like, you know, every person is cast with a good reason and they're all the best of the best. He wrote this with you in mind, I believe,

or came to you with this in mind. I'm curious, what percentage of the time does that happen where it's actually a good project and what percent of the time is it, oh, shit, I have to tell this guy to crap, or I have to, you mean, hey, I wrote this for you and I'm reading it going, it's bloody awful. Exactly.

How do you get out? That must happen. Yeah, you fake bad connections. and things like that. So I don't know what your Asians get involved. Oh, let me see my schedule. I'm not sure. Right.

Now, I do always try to be very honest and straightforward. I figure that, you know, it's cruel to be kind if something isn't working. Or there may be times when you go, hey, I appreciate it. You wrote it for me. Yeah. But I actually think it's better for somebody else. Right. I do that a lot.

I do that a lot saying I think someone else would be better. doing something. But also remember, hey, look, I'm a lucky bugger at this point that anybody writes anything for me. I'm stunned that I get any jobs. You know, somebody asked me the other day, they said, what do you look for in a director? And I started answering the question of, what do I look for in a director? And I suddenly went, man, it's only been a very short amount of time that I get to kind of go, yeah, don't want to work with that director. Yeah. You know, Before that, you take whatever bloody work you can get. And also this period in my career might be very short-lived.

And, you know, I could be doing dinner theater in the Philippines very quickly. That would be a shocking term event. But I'll come out and see it. There's been more shocking things happen in the world. That's true. That's true. Can we go back to some? Just to answer my question, I pose myself.

Sorry. That's okay. It's a one-man podcast. Just to talk to myself for a minute. The obsession. Obsession is what you've got to look for in every director. And they don't all have it. They don't all have it.

And it comes in all shapes and sizes and all sorts of personalities. But you want to know that it's somebody who is obsessed with a project. And then you can get carried along with their obsession. Has a filmmaker ever sold you a bill of goods where they seem obsessed? and then you get on set and you're like my heart's in this I don't think their heart is in this ding ding ding ding yes yes yes that's been I mean I immediately three of them instantly and probably a few more oh no we won't name names but that's an that's that's an unfortunate place to be yeah it must be soul-crushing as an actor yes it is yeah um if you'll indulge me I'd love to go back through your career a little bit I mean I

you know I saw you like many an Empire of the Sun and we're you're a couple years old to me. So it hit me as a teenager myself seeing that film and that performance. And I know it was obviously such an amazing opportunity, but you've been pretty forthright in sort of what came with it was not necessarily what you wanted. I mean, it's tough

to be a 13-year-old anyway, let alone getting that kind of fame or whatever foisted on you. Did that experience color how you enjoyed the movies? Like, were you less able to enjoy watching movies because having gone through an experience that wasn't altogether satisfying and happy?

No, that experience didn't affect it. You know, becoming the breadwinner early on, that's not a healthy thing, I know the thing. But you're going to do it, right? Yeah. You must do it, you know? I don't think you should ever say no to that. But that's not what colored it.

And I don't find myself any longer not being able to completely immerse myself in film and enjoy them. I did go through a brief period when I was learning really how films get made when I didn't watch a film without thinking about how did they do that, how did they do that? And you can't really enjoy a film at that point.

Now I don't ask myself those questions and I can enjoy it again. Although I see not that many films recently and I tend to see films that my kids want to see and we'll watch, you know, 20 minutes of it. Right. Yeah.

You're not watching Inside Out thinking how they did that. How did they do that? No, but I do want to see that. Oh, it's a great movie. Yeah, I haven't seen that one. That's a classic. You know, in the period of time, you know, between Empire of the Sun and, I mean, you know, looking at your career, it would seem like the huge shift was American Psycho, the film that I, that I... Right.

Is that, would you say that's fair to say? I would say so, because the thing that I, you know, look, first off, just, I was sent it. there was no letter that explained how I should feel about the script, the book, but I found myself laughing very hard. I found when I met with Mary Harron that we actually couldn't finish reading through the scenes that other people found repulsive,

but that we were crying with laughter and she would have to stop the camera and go, okay, just wait a second, let's try this again. So we instantly, somebody asked me the question the other day. They said, isn't it interesting how American Psycho has gone from, you know, an analysis of a serial killer to a satire? And I said, I don't think it was ever an analysis of a serial killer. It was always a satire. Like it's never been otherwise.

In fact, the only people who have ever said to me is an analysis of a serial killer or who have very, very, very. loudly protested the book people who've never read the book because it's

clearly satirical when you read it but yes I would say that was a big changing moment

because I think I was destined to play lots of you know billowing shirt period

floppy head English men do you have any fondness because I remember and still to this day there's a sizable portion

of the that appreciates your work has a great fondness for films like Newsies and Swink Kids. Do you have any fondness for, do you understand the love for those movies, or is it just sort of like to each his own? With respect to the people involved, not so much Swink Kids, newsies, yes, time heals or wounds,

and I can enjoy that film now. Yeah, it just wasn't what it was meant to be. That was my problem with it. Oh, really? It started off as a drama. Oh, okay. And I would go into work each day, knowing for well that Disney had decided

that they wanted to make it a musical, but I genuinely believed I could be the lead in a musical without ever singing or dancing and I stuck to that for quite some time and they would start their rehearsals and I'd say, all right, so at that point I'll just walk off and then when you guys are finished with your dancing and singing I'll walk back in and keep on talking

and eventually I just said I'm in a musical just embrace it or don't do it. Have you considered doing a musical since? I haven't considered it but I wouldn't be against it. I don't like them much. but I wouldn't be against it if there was something special. Is it true in those interim years? I'm sure you were up for a thousand different roles.

One of those that pops up here and there is that you were up for Titanic. Is that something that you recall auditioning for? Well, I don't think I was ever really up for Titanic. I think I did just an abysmal audition and they never even considered me seriously for it. So that's not really I'm up for Titanic, you know? Do you miss audition? You probably haven't auditioned for a while.

No, I've always been one of the worst auditions. ever. I don't know how to audition um directors tell me that did it cause you a lot of anxiety did you did you feel like you were bad at auditioning at the time like I didn't know how in a room hotel room

office um sitting on a couch it's a big leap to get with I think the most important thing is with people who don't take the time to talk with you about a character they expect you to guess what they are thinking

and I would say in auditions this isn't how it works when we work so why don't we actually make it how it is on a film set how about we talk beforehand but they you know either didn't want to thought I was a pain in the ass or had a you know

not enough time just a ton of people waiting in the hallway to do it but there's also that thing if when you're sitting in a hallway with a bunch of other people and you're all not, it's competition and I don't think competition is healthy in acting, you know? There should be zero thought of competition

you're doing your own wife. Isn't it supposed to be like not testing up? I would give these abysmal readings and I remember Jane Campion telling me that she said you were one of the worst actors I've ever seen in an audition and that's one you got but she took the time to

talk with me. And she said, but we had that conversation and your insight into the character is what made me say, he can do this just not in this office environment. So thank God I haven't had to audition since Batman. Right. Is there one that still haunts you to this day

an audition and you're a nightmare that pops up? There's multiple that are absolutely abysmal. There are some where they were set up cameras and I would just get hypnotized by the camera and stand there silently, stare at the camera. There was one where I had a really bad cold and I'd taken some medication beforehand and I thought I nailed it. I thought I'd done the most brilliant job in the casting director

put the camera down and said, Christian, that usually takes most people two minutes. That took 12 minutes for you to get through that. I'm going to erase that or else some very nasty rumours will start coming out about you with that. And there've also been others where I've been putting on the indicator to turn into a studio lot to go do an audition. and then I go, I can't and I just slam the steering wheel the other way and go off and at that time it was before cell phones go find

a pay phone. Right. I called my agent and try to give some reason why I couldn't turn up. I'm glad these days are behind you. Yeah, me too. Tell me like, you know, I alluded to this at the outset. Like, you know, as somebody that, and you cannot even got into it and talking about auditions, like, it seems

like you needed to feel authentic. and real and natural and organic and if it feels fake or false you don't really, you can't tolerate that and I'm curious like when you get something involved in something like Batman you have to get in a bat suit you have to like sell that

that was a big moment and that was actually the first time I worked with Amy Adams she was there that day she was working with all the different actors who were auditioning and not only was I having to get into a bat suit I was getting into a bat suit that didn't fit me it was Val Kilmer's bat suit and I put it on

and I thought I feel like a real pram. Why would any man think it was a good idea to run around dressed as a bat? He must be crazy. And that was when I said, you know what, I'm just going to go for it with that way. I'm going to say, you know,

he has this performance of Bruce Wayne, but he has this monster of Batman. And I tried talking normally in the bat suit. Yeah. Some people can do it. I couldn't. I felt like such an idiot. And so it was at that moment that I went, you know what? He's a monster, become the monster, you know?

There's a Jekyll and Hyde element here. Just embrace it. Hey, you know what? They don't like it. Screw it. It's fine, you know. And so I did it. And then I remember going home to my wife and she said, how did it go?

And I went, well, I kind of did this. And I sort of hunched over and, you know, growled. And I know a lot of people dislike what I did. and she went well you fucked that up didn't you you know and then but then they gave the call

when they said oh bold choice we like it we want to do it for the record Chris actually had me enhance it he wanted more he egged me on

with that do you do you think your lack of obsessiveness or reverence for the comics maybe helped you like kind of let go

of preconceived notions and make it your own in the end I didn't have knowledge of the graphic novels or the comics I had really enjoyed I wasn't an avid fan

watcher but when I had seen the Adam West series I'd really enjoyed it I had seen some of the other films I was ambivalent about them it was Frank Miller's Batman Year 1

that was such a surprise to me and when I read that and I wasn't somebody who was going and reading graphic novels this literally was the first graphic novel that I'd ever read I read that and I said

why doesn't anybody make a film like that that's interesting I'd never found Batman that interesting prior to that and also at that time interestingly Darren Aronovsky was going to be making the film at a lower budget

and then he dropped out and they decided they wanted to make a bigger budget but Chris still wanted to maintain that field right but you know with the larger budget was the first time you met with Chris like you didn't talk to Darren about his project I didn't talk with

Darren about it Darren I met about the fighter oh that's right he was going to direct the fighter and it was quite interesting we sat down and the first thing he said to me is Christian I'm going to quit this film and I was like alright so he quit and I came on board

And, no, with Chris, the first time I met, I was about to go make a film called The Machinist. I was not exactly in fighting shape. Right. This is, you had 140 pounds or something. What Chris said was, well, look, if he will get that obsessed and committed to a film like The Machinist, then he will do so for Batman too. and so I think that that's why he had me come audition for it I love the trilogy I mean I think it's it's it's an amazing and as you and Christopher have talked about a complete story

that just works like unparalleled as a trilogy I feel like in filmmaking and we were very lucky to get to make a whole trilogy you know I mean Chris's attitude you know he's a very humble man and he said look I mean first off any film is better when you make it as as an independent film, isolated, sorry, independent people who get confused, as an entity in and of itself

without assuming. So he always said, let's never make any assumptions that there will be a sequel, but if we do get to make sequels, let's call it a day after a trilogy. I know we could spend an hour on just Heath Ledger, but I want to mention something else just because I remain obsessed with Tom Hardy's Bain.

And what he did, and the risks he took for that character, too, frankly, just going out on a limb, that voice will be in my head for the rest of time. And not in, like, a mocking way. I think it's just, I think it's fantastic what he did. What was you, do you remember your reaction when you saw what he was doing or what he was going for in that? I felt, join the club, mate. That's like, right on.

Got someone else who's now going to take some heat as well for the voice they chose. I loved it. Tom's an excellent actor. Amazing. yeah he's um now we would have some funny times because uh there'd be you know waterfalls and loud noises and we'd be quite a distance from each other and he'd talk and i couldn't hear what he was saying and i'd speak and he couldn't hear what i was saying and so we'd get a little sign language going where when i was finished with my line i'd go

just move your finger yeah i move my finger and then he would he would do something move his finger or whatever it was that we had decided on and we'd both be looking for that to know right, it must be my line. You're going to watch the movie again and see if I could find a finger wag. I've actually said that too. Very sadly, I've not been able to watch that film since because of the whole tragedy of Aurora.

And I have not been able to sit down and see it without thinking of that. And I'd love to be able to one day. But yes, I would like to see do you actually catch those signs that we're sending to one another. I'm going to look into it. Do you have any curiosity as someone,

you know, the rare opportunity when another actor plays a different incarnation of a character you've played? Is there any curiosity when someone like Ben Affleck dons the cow? Like, have you seen his interpretation? Is that interesting? I have not. Yes, I'm interested. My son seemed like he was really interested, but then I realized he just wanted to see the trailer, and that was it. and you know I tend to go see films that they want to see

I have to confess I'm not a huge superhero film fan you know people seem surprised at that I don't know why but you know I've not seen any of the Avengers films or any of those films at all I hear they're very good but I'm quite happy just hearing they're very good Do, as we talk today, Star Wars just opened to Star Wars, interest you about?

Star Wars, I'm a huge fan. Yeah. Yeah, Star Wars really interested me. I've still got the Millennium Falcon. I've got the Atta. My daughter, her first love, was Darth Vader. She absolutely adored Darth Mall, stood near him at Disneyland. Oh, that's a moment.

And he growled and he's got those teeth. and he stayed in character really wonderful performance and she was teeny and I thought this is going to scare the crap out of her this is such a bad idea and then she said she stopped and she said Daddy I'm in love

that's my child that's my there was stuff that you might have been involved in the Han Solo project was that something that was tempting yes very tempting I not only love the films going back

to my childhood, but also have a very long relationship with Kathleen Kennedy and Frank Marshall because they did Empire of the Sun from many years back. There was discussion I hope there'll be future discussions. I'd love to see you in that universe

that'd be amazing. You were alluding to this before, like since, you know, in the I don't even know how many years it's been since Batman, you've lived a charmed life in kind of the opportunities that you've had. And I feel like you've made the most of them. You've worked with some of the best filmmakers on the planet, whether it's Terrence Malick or David O'Russell, you know, Scott is in that group. I want to say this without trying to be mean on my end, but I will say the one outlier to

me is what made you do Terminator salvation? I said no three times. I thought that the franchise I went Nah there's no story there I'd been and enjoyed the I'd seen the first one and enjoyed that back in England I've been to the movies and seen the second one It was an unfortunate series of events

involving the writer's strike involving Jonah Nolan who was able to come on and really start to write a wonderful script but then got called away for a prior commitment that he had and it's a great thorn in my side

because I wish we could have re-invigorated that and unfortunately during production you could tell that wasn't happening but it's a great shame do you feel the last thing I want to do is rehash I also enjoyed there's a perverse side to me where people were telling me

there's no way on God's earth that I should take that role and I was thinking the same thing but when people started verbalising that to me I started to go oh really all right well watch this then so there was a little bit of that

involved in the choice too do you find that post that experience of that film which obviously had an unfortunate day that there was a violation of trust on that set that that you know was not good on any respect did you find that you had to walk on eggshells on sets after that

that people were watching and sort of looking at that. No, because that was a very unusual occasion, you know? Great learning lesson for me. Doesn't matter that you're doing it. You remember that scene Linda Hamilton where she's really going nuts in Terminator 2? And we said, we've got to channel that at some point in the film. And that was the scene in which we were channeling it. Great lesson for me of, no matter.

how, you know, how much you lose yourself in a scene that you do not allow yourself to behave that way, right? And, yeah, of course, I've got enormous regrets, you know, about it. And actually, I forgot what your question was. Well, I guess just like going after that experience, knowing there was like a target on you probably on the next few sets where people were like, oh, there's that guy that went off on that set.

Like, did you feel like you had to alter your behavior? No, in honesty, it was more humor. Yeah. Deflected with humor? Yeah, yeah. It was more humor. Crew, you know, laughed about it. But they could also see that that isn't me.

Because the next film I did was the fighter. Right. And so, yeah, of course. I mean, people still make fun of me to that day, and I deserve it. And I like it, and it's funny. You know, it's, you know, about it. But, no, people quickly saw. I'm actually generally the complete opposite of that

because there was something that I really learned when I made the machinist. And unfortunately, you know, I didn't maintain that lesson for that moment. But when I made the machinist, I was so hungry and exhausted and had so little energy that I literally didn't talk to anybody whilst I was making the film

and there was something incredibly satisfying about just communicating with people in the scenes and it and it and it and it taught me that actually you know quietness um is is the way to go and uh you know the old cliche you know anger uh only um

causes you to lose power, which you did exactly in that situation. Do you, we're 35 minutes into a conversation. We haven't even mentioned the physical transformation that sits before me today, which is probably a record for your press tour. I know this comes up a lot. Do you take pride in the fact that, I mean, since machinists, which we've talked about a couple times, like your name is almost like a verb.

It's like pulling a Christian bail when you transform for a role. Is that a source of pride? Like, you know, De Niro had that mantle for a while. it's now yours buddy you have that well um I did go to a nutritionist when I filmed Chaney

because I had started to gain weight for a film and you know I wasn't doing it as a gimmick believe you me I would rather just stay normal but you know I read a script and I don't think is he skinny is he you know rotund is he a large man or not

I just go do I love the script okay then I think about what do I have to do for it I did decide for the first time to go to a nutritionist on this one because my heart, my ticker, was just not responding well to a previous film where I'd started to put on weight for it and I realized... Yes, yes, yes.

And I was very saddened by that but it was clearly the right choice because it was not, things were not looking good. So I went to a nutritionist, finally got smart about it, it because prior to that, you know, machinist had just been like, you know, roll my own siggies, drink a bit of whiskey, have an apple.

Not the way to go. Not really. I'm with it at all. No, very happy for that to be something that's associated, but not necessary for everything. And, you know, just cautious about that becoming a gimmick. Of course. However, you know, there are just some parts

which it's undeniable. Unless you're going to approach it like performance art, like I said that to Adam, McKay at one point with Cheney. I said, look, we can either do this and I don't want to give away too much about the film, but we do go through quite a long

a number of different ages. So I say, well, I can't get my body set in one stage because then we can't achieve the other. So I have to find a kind of a pivot point where we go from. Or we choose to do it like performance art, where we just ignore the looks completely.

And obviously, you can never achieve the look entirely you just cannot but the hope is that you create the vibe and the personality for it this is your second collaboration with Adam McKay and I'm so curious about this on many levels

I mean your performance I mean the fact that Sam Rockwell was playing W right oh my god what Karel doing Rumsfeld like there's just so much there that I'm going to enjoy I know it right I know you don't want to probably say too much yet there's time for that but like tonally you mentioned Bill Camp he's in He's in...

Oh, nice. He's in that as well as you should be. Oh, amazing. Is it share a tonality with Big Short and more in the... I assume it's more in that camp than Anchorman, for instance, on the Adam McKay scale. I will let you decide that next year. Okay. Fair enough.

Do you... I mean, you alluded to this before, you know, you're joking about doing dinner theater in the Philippines. Do you feel like a need to kind of like make yourself commercially viable every few years now? Do you feel like, you know, when a Han Solo comes up, when a something comes up, like, I need to consider that because this gravy train might run out. I might get a chance to work with Terrence Malik

for free or whatever you got paid if I don't make a studio $100 million. Right. This is something you think about, or is it just sort of like, I've got to follow my gut. I follow my gut. Yeah, yeah, I do. But I also grew up in a family where my dad was incredibly resilient.

We were kicked out of so many different. houses it oh i've got kids it scares me for that because i want permanence for them for me myself though i feel like hey i learned how to survive because i saw how he did it right i've had an incredible run don't get greedy keep doing what you feel is right don't start playing it safe right audiences deserve better than that i deserve better than that it bloody everybody deserves better than that you know there's nothing exciting comes from playing it safe in case something fails in fact I tend to love

thinking of it the opposite way I tend to love looking at things and go you know what this just might be the one that ends everything let's do it all right let's go for it because I want to see

what the fuck can I do other than this I want to try and figure that one out well I'm guessing by the body that's sitting in front of me the fact you just did this film and the fact that you've just made this challenging but awesome western with Scott

you're not going to stop that approach to the work and I appreciate that it's always good to catch up with you especially a longer conversation like this because you need to make sorry I can't jump like I did last time don't worry we're going to still make you make silly faces

by hell or high water congratulations on the film man it's good to see you thank you man thanks and so ends another edition of happy sad confused remember to review rate and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts

big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I'm Amy Nicholson, the film critic for the LA Times. And I'm Paul Shear, an actor, writer, and director. You might know me from The League, Veep, or my non-eligible for Academy Award role in Twisters. We love movies, and we come at them from different perspectives.

Yeah, like, Amy thinks that, you know, Joe Pesci was miscast in Goodfellas, and I don't. He's too old. Let's not forget that Paul thinks that Dude, too, is overrated. It is. Anyway, despite this, we come together. host, Unspooled, a podcast where you talk about good movies, critical hits. Fan favorites, musts season, and case you miss them. We're talking Parasite the Home Alone.

From Greece to the Dark Night. We've done deep dives on popcorn flicks. We've talked about why Independence Day deserves a second look. And we've talked about horror movies, some that you've never even heard of, like Ganges and Hess. So if you love movies like we do, come along on our cinematic adventure. Listen to Unspooled wherever you get your podcast. And don't forget to hit the follow button. Thank you.