Happy Sad Confused - Christian Slater, Sam Heughan, Vol. II

Episode Date: July 31, 2018

We've jammed so much "Happy Sad Confused" goodness into this episode it's almost too good to be true! The proceedings get off to a fun start with returning favorite guest Sam Heughan dropping in to say a quick hello to Josh and Sammy, lament missing out on the lead role in the new film version of "Dune", and enthuse all about his "The Spy Who Dumped Me" co-stars Mila Kunis and Kate McKinnon. And then there's the main event, an extensive trip down memory lane with the great Christian Slater. Currently starring alongside Glenn Close in "The Wife", Christian is all too happy to open up about his extraordinary career, from "Heathers" and "Pump Up the Volume", to his resurgence in recent years thanks to "Mr. Robot". Plus Josh and Christian hatch a plan for the actor to re-team with Winona Ryder for "Stranger Things"! Are you listening, universe?   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

During the Volvo Fall Experience event, discover exceptional offers and thoughtful design that leaves plenty of room for autumn adventures. And see for yourself how Volvo's legendary safety brings peace of mind to every crisp morning commute. This September, lease a 2026 XE90 plug-in hybrid from $599 bi-weekly at 3.99% during the Volvo Fall Experience event. Conditions apply, visit your local Volvo retailer or go to explorevolvo.com.

The new BMO ViPorter MasterCard is your ticket to more. More perks, more points, more flights, more of all the things you want in a travel rewards card, and then some. Get your ticket to more with the new BMO ViPorter MasterCard and get up to $2,400 in value in your first 13 months. Terms and conditions apply. Visit BMO.com slash ViPorter to learn more. Hey guys, Josh here with a quick note before the actual show begins. The intro for today's Happy Say I Confused is stellar, it's wonderful, it is life-changing except for one small thing.

We had a surprise guest, so this guest had to share the mic with Sammy just for the intro, so in the first five minutes of the show, Sammy is a little difficult to hear, but just listen close. You'll get it all. It's worth it. There's a special surprise guest. It's all good. Enjoy the show.

Today on Happy, Said Confused, Christian Slater on his new film, The Wife. Hey, guys, I'm Josh Horowitz. Welcome to the show. Welcome to my little old podcast. I'm Josh. Here's Sammy. Hello. Sammy's back.

Very exciting. Almost as exciting. You know what? No, I'm going to say the most exciting event on the end. intro ever. This guy just was wandering by and just said, hey, I'm here too. I've got a movie. I've been on the podcast. The Christian wasn't available, so you just dragged me in. There it is. Jesus. Sam He was. Sam Hewin. Friend of the podcast. Yeah. Spy who dumped me. He's in a down mood

because he just found out that Dune has been... Dune's been cast already. He saw the poster of Dune in my office, which major props to Sam for at least loving that movie as much as I do. Big fan. Really big fan. Amazing. I mean, Sting. I mean, there you are. You had that outfit, that same outfit. He's wearing the sting outfit right now. I am wearing that outfit, and my hair is very spiky, and I'm excited to do this.

The spice, we are ordering a lot of spice for lunchtime today. It's right, just a big heap of spice. Sammy has no idea what we're talking about. I literally don't, but I do know that Josh's face when Sam recognized Dune was like just so pure joy. I already knew. You just felt happiness. I already knew Sam was a brother.

from another mother, as we all could tell. You do have a... A former 80s dork. Yeah. You do have a lot of great 80s movie posters in your office. A lot of great memorabilia. Nothing of me. Well, no, no, no, no, no, no.

I knew you were coming, so it was all... Oh, you took it all down? Yeah. So I didn't feel awkward and uncomfortable? No more so than usual. Topless pictures, something like that? Bottomless. Bottom.

I hacked into your phone, so sorry about that. Oh, God. We should, in gratitude for you stopping by. I should mention your very funny new movie, The Spy Who Dumped Me. Please do. I mean, you're killing it on the big screen with two lovely ladies, very funny ladies,

Mela Kunis and Kate McKinnon. I know, come on. She is comedy, comedy, the queen of comedy. How did you do it? How did you, like, look her in the eye and not laugh? I didn't. Oh, got it. So all your scenes are just right before you break?

It was impossible, yeah. And actually, I think they've kept some scenes in when I did break because she's just amazing. Every take was completely different. And she's just wonderful. She is. She's one of those like naturally like, it seems, even if she delivers a straight line, it's sort of like, wait, are you fucking with me?

Is this a joke? What is like, her eyes, like her facial expressions make me laugh. Very hard. She's just such a, and actually, genuinely as a person, you know, she's, you know, very, she's, you know, very, um, she's kooky, but she's down to earth and wears her heart on a sleeve, and it's just a wonderful human being. We love Kate. We love, this is the, Kate McKinnon.

It was pretty good, too. Milakunis. I mean, I got to work with Mina Kunis. I mean, that is, that's better than meeting Josh. Wait. Almost, it's almost. Also, it's Meg from Family Guy. So it's like, they're just hearing her voice too.

I mean, she's got an okay face. I love, I've never done my Brian, or Brian, Stewie impression. I should have done that. I should have done that. Probably for the best, not on the first film. So yes, check out Spy Who Dumped Me. We're going to talk on camera in a second

because the world needs to see Sam Hewinn on camera. Apparently, some people enjoy. watching you, whatever. I hope it could be weird. It's a little odd. Little odd. And we've already, when he walked in, we already teased that maybe we have something come up with something fun, something a little wacky with your buddy Katrina at some

point. Oh. You think that would be fun? Katrina Balfe. Remember her? Do you guys still talk? I know who she is. Yes.

Yeah, that would be fantastic. We're obviously back here for Comic Con and so that's going to be really good fun. I couldn't go to San Diego Comic Con this year. I can only do New York. So I love that you guys did. that too for me that was that they did not attend for you yeah they didn't go to San Diego because they knew I could only do New York and it's right very important Sammy we heard you weren't available obviously change things around

thank you I wanted to say yeah in person thank you Slater Slater didn't do it either no Christian Slater was not there look at that the master of the segue way better I should mention Christian Slater is the guest the other guest I mean Sam's the main guest obviously but Christian Slater is also on the podcast this week. Who is this guy anyway? As a child, as a lover of the 80s, we do love our Christian Slater. Yeah. By the way, I'm available if you ever need, you know, like another Sammy to be part of the team. We do. We don't even need you, honestly. Yeah. This was the

worst idea ever. The Sammy show. Yes. My last name starts with H too. So like, think of the branding opportunities. Think of the branding opportunities, but also the confusion. Yeah. It's great. People would confuse us all the time. I'm confused. So Christian Slater, starring in the wife, a wonderful new film with Glenn Close and Jonathan Price. I recommend you guys see it. That is wonderful. And Christian was a delight. We talked about everything from Heather's to our mutual love of Star Trek. He's a Trekkie. Yeah. He's a good guy. He can stay. Good guy. He's in. He's in. He's welcome to the club. So that is coming at you right now. Remember to review, rate and subscribe to the podcast. this might be the last one where I'm actually hosting.

It's going to be the Sammy and Sam show. Fans, let us know what you want. We need a catchy title, though. You need to come up with a good title. Happy second views is out there. Sorry. We could build on it. That's so last year.

All right. On with the, not the main event, an event. Here is Christian Slater. Sammy, thanks as always. Anytime. And Sam, go see Spike. You don't have to see it. You've seen it probably.

I've seen the Spy movie. How many times do you see a movie? like in this press? I don't know. It's my first one, big one. Okay, so far. But so far, I haven't seen it now. Really?

Trying to avoid it. Yeah. What? Oh, my goodness. No, I've seen it. Of course I've seen it. I've seen it a few times. I don't know.

I can't see myself. I don't know if that was my impression at you. Thanks a lot. Oh, I can't see my... Oh, it's so gross. I've seen it a few times. And it's always, always just... It makes me laugh.

Not my bits, obviously, but the script is so funny. And the action is amazing, so good. Everybody check it out. I mean, you don't have to sell me, I'm in. Super fun time at the theaters. Enjoy this conversation in the meantime and then go to an air-conditioned theater and see the spot who dumped me.

But for now, here's Christian Slater. Thanks for joining us, Josh, on our show. You did good. Thanks. Okay. Should we have a conversation? Yeah, let's go. I mean, we're here.

They're microphones. It feels like the natural thing to do. It feels like, yeah, this is what we should do. So let me turn my phone off. Okay. Let's get official. Let's get real. Be professional.

No, no. I was going to have a little snack. You could snack during the... Really? Well, that's kind of weird to, you know, you'd have to be asking a long question for me to be able to eat and do all that stuff. It's pretty unedited, guys. It's pretty unedited, okay.

And just know, I'm wearing my glasses this way because I kind of, my ear hurts a little bit from flying on the plane. They see they're not, they're not like on my ears. I see. See? So I guess you don't notice. So that's fine. This is the Hollywood way of wearing glasses. You're right. Exactly. That's what they thought. They thought I was up on some new trend, that that's how it's done. But no, it's because I had the headphones on, my glasses on the plane, and it squeezed too hard, and, you know, it ends up hurting the back of your ears.

I'm here with Christian Slater whose head has been compressed by the air pressure and the headphones. That's the airplane. You're such a trooper. I did. I'm here. I don't know what I'll say, but I'm here. You see. Because my head has been compressed. No, here we go.

It's good to have you here, man. I'm such a fan. I don't think we've ever really, maybe on a carpet or something at some point over the years, but not a significant conversation of worth. And this is what we're going to have today. All right. Yeah, let's go. You're in a, you feel comfortable. I'm happy. I'm confused. I'm a little sad. But other than that, I'm good. He's been proud. He's like, what a fool.

Oh, my God. I'm relieved because, like, I might as well, as you can see, I bought a movie posters up here. Yes. I might as well have had, like, Heather's or any of yours up here. It could very easily have happened. I was going to say that. Yeah, I mean, no, I wasn't going to say that. Just, I don't care.

It might have been awkward. But the movies that you have up here, I'm sure everybody's mentioned them, but they're all freaking great, classic movies, one of my favorites. Which one, Color of Money? Yes. I thought he was brilliant in that, but I felt like he should have won for the verdict. Oh, of course, that he will met. Amazing. I mean, that movie was, uh, color.

Just, oh, wow. We got snacks, got Reese's cups. Yeah, it was the picture of brilliance, I thought, as far as a performance goes, I thought Newman was just remarkable on that. Did you ever meet or interact with Paul Newman? I did briefly, actually, in London. I think it was maybe on the Jonathan Ross show or something. We were both guests and we were backstage, and he just was a super sweet guy.

He's one of those. It was a moment of just crossing paths, and it was nice to meet a legend like that. I mean, he's phenomenal. Totally. The most significant time we've ever crossed paths I'm sure you remember this was at the 1992 Democratic National Convention I was 16 years old

and I was wearing a Spock t-shirt and I went up to you because I was excited I support that because you had just been in Star Trek 6 and I was like I gotta say something I don't know what I said wow and I was there at the Democratic National Convention that's pretty yeah that's I remember

I mean why were either of us there it's a little odd Yeah, yeah, I do. I do kind of remember that. And, yeah, you know, that's a long time ago. I was a teen reporter getting an early start. Good for you, man. We've come full circle. Yeah, yeah, I think it's great. That's wonderful that you're still going and, yeah, got nothing but respect. Thanks, man. Yeah. Same right back at you. So, and you are a fellow New Yorker. I was born and raised in the city. Okay. What part or what? I have a friend that makes fun of me. I always say the mean streets of the Upper West Side. Oh, yeah. Okay.

Rough, rough part of town. Really? Yeah, I started on the 86th and West End. Okay, I was 70th. Okay. Now I'm on, actually, I'm on the Upper West Side, but I'm right there too again. Because I do love it. It does feel like home, and it hasn't really changed that much.

I do like that. You can go back and walk down the streets and, oh my gosh, there's the building I was at when I was, you know, two or three. Totally. And then we moved to 43rd and 10th, which is the Manhattan Plaza. And, you know, my mother was able to get an apartment in there because, you know, because they had some sort of actors fund or rent-controlled type situation where you could get a nice two-bedroom apartment, but you had to be in the entertainment industry, and they gauged on how much money you were being paid, and that's how they took the rent.

But there were great people in there. There was Larry David. I mean, you'd see all these people. That's so cool. Yeah, I mean, it was pretty, because they were all artists, you know, so it was great. So, and remind me, so you were, because I've read different things about, like, where you went to school. you were did you go to dalton i started at dalton see i ended at dalton oh okay so you went into dalton you sophomore year of high school okay uh i was in there too well like they kicked me out

of stuyvesant okay and i ended up at dalton no it's great i mean that's amazing that how that worked out i started at uh dalton i was i was in there for a while for like yeah a couple years and then um uh i started working right so i was gone for like the whole year and traveling around with the music man and Dick Van Dyke and I was a nine-year-old kid, whatever. And then Dalton wanted to actually hold me back because I'd missed the whole year. Right. And I just categorically was not okay with it. I am taking a stand as a nine-year-old.

Yes, and I took a stand. And my mother was like, holy moly, this kid is really serious. So she found another school for me to go to, which was the professional children's school. And they were geared towards helping kids who wanted to be professional. and, you know, that's how it worked out. So were you, if, were you a precocious nine-year-old? How would you describe, like, were you a big personality? I mean, like, definitely not.

Your parents were in the industry in different ways. Yes, yes. So actor, agent, cast and director, yes. Exactly. So, so in some ways maybe feels inevitable that you would end up in it. Or was it, like, how much was it kind of like, that's all they knew and like it seemed like a natural thing? And how much was it, oh, little Christians got to pour this energy into something.

Oh, Christian. No, I was, I honestly, as far as I know, I was a pretty shy, quiet, you know, hyper-sensitive kid. I mean, you know, I would hear that thing of, oh, don't be so sensitive all the time. So I was, you know, very, I remember one night we were all out at dinner and with like a bunch of probably other actors. And, you know, my dessert came and it was this lovely piece of maybe ice cream cake. And I was really excited about it, you know, a little kid. and then somebody thought it would be funny to like pass it around the whole table

and everybody to take a bite. I'm watching some slow motion right now. Yeah, so you can imagine. By the time he came back to me, there was nothing left, and I was a wreck. I did not think that was funny at all. Only through decades of therapy. Are you able to laugh at it?

That's right. I mean, that was the foundation for a lot of, yeah, yeah. That was painful. Are you thinking about the ice cream cake again? Yeah, no, I'm okay. I've moved through it and worked very hard. I don't know you have. I don't know.

I'm okay. I think I'm okay. God, man, I'm having flashbacks. That's what I love about doing interviews. It's like you can have all these settled leaves at the bottom of the pond, and then, you know, you do an interview, and all of a sudden I'm talking about things I haven't talked about. I'm sorry. 40 years.

I mean, I was eight years old. You came in so put together, and you're going to leave her a wreck. My mascara will be running. Right? By the way, why are you wearing mascara? I'm not wearing mascara. I'm just joking, but nobody knows because we're on the radio so we can pretend. You know you and I are of a certain generation

when we're calling it the radio. That's right. That's right. Yeah, well... Have you been podcasted before? I think I have. You must be. I think so.

I've done a few shows. I mean, nothing... Of this important comes to my... Yeah, I mean, this is the biggest one. You've made it. Congratulations. This is it, man. This is...

I'm here. The... So it's ironic that you get into... Are you leaving? You're literally... He's backing out of the room right now. No, because it's the pinnacle. I'm afraid.

Well, at some point in our lives, we have to... to reach the mountaintop. It's a roller coaster ride. And then you find another mountain top. That's right. Okay. All right.

We keep climbing. Right? Yeah. So you're a little Christian's hypersensitive. Yeah. And yet he gets into the one industry where you're constantly judged. Right. Well, you know, I didn't really feel that.

I mean, I felt, you know, I got discovered on that Joe Franklin show. Right. You probably know that. Of course. Yeah. Yeah. So I was there, a little kid. My mother was the guest.

He told me to come over and sit on her lap. and the next day we got the call from Michael Kidd who was directing the music man and you know I went in I auditioned sang my song that I had probably zippity doodah or one of those

and I'm just realizing that's like a song from a movie that's banned you can't see Song of the South you literally can't see it I know it's just I'm connecting that right now and good thing because it's horrible and you know

fine but at the time you know nobody knew so so yeah So let's just say I sang Gary in Indiana. And they hired me. You know, I was an eight, nine-year-old kid, and then I was off on the road for nine months torn around the United States with this play. I had a great time.

I loved it. And it was fun. There was no doubt about it. I mean, it was a ton of fun. I loved going up in front of the audience. And, you know, the other thing, too, is that I did grow up here in New York. So I don't know if this was your experience, but I was afforded the opportunity. to go to a lot of theater.

Totally. My mother would take me. I used to spend a lot of time even backstage because my father was an actor. So, you know, from early on, I was hanging out in the wings and, you know, just this little kid and listening to the crowd of people

and people laughing, laughing at the things my father was doing. And so, you know, that was, I was like, oh, this looks fun. And my mother sent me to Dalton because she was interested in me becoming, you know, a doctor or a lawyer. Sure.

She wanted me to have possible, because being in the position that she was in. She knew all the pitfalls. Yes, you know, I mean, she, which was another, I think, interesting element for me was to be sitting in the corner, because I could sit in the corner, because I could sit in the corner a lot of times when actors would come in for auditions, when producers would be sitting in there. And I could hear after they would leave, you know, I would anonymously just be playing with my toys in the corner, but I was still listening and, you know, picking up all these things that sometimes they would say that were cruel or they like. the guy, are they like this, they didn't like that, it was too short, too tall. Yeah. You know, so, um, so those were all interesting aspects growing up. Did you get any tips either through that kind of like just learning through osmosis or from your mom about auditioning in terms of like, I think so. Yeah. No, I think so. And, and quite honestly, um,

I did have some help because, uh, you know, when I would go in for, uh, a particular audition, uh, the, the camera guy was usually somebody that had, my mother. knew or was an actor. So I would feel comfortable. I knew this guy or I'd done a play with him and he knew me and from all those types of experiences. So I would feel, I mean, it worked and kind of made me a little bit nervous too because it was a friend of mine to be doing a scene in front of your friend is a little weird.

But I still, I did like it more than I didn't. So you think like, so the film career starts with Legend of Billy Johnson. and correct me if I'm wrong, right? Yeah, I mean, before that, there was, you know, after-school specials. There were theater gigs and Radio City Music Hall. That was, again, I thought was the pinnacle of my life. Little did you know. Yeah, I know, and that was a big deal.

What was that Radio City musical? That was the Christmas Spectacular. Amazing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And there was, I was so excited to get that job. And I remember the auditions for that were extensive. I had to sing. I had to dance, which I'm not, you know, in any way, a professional dancer.

and I had to prepare a scene and I got the job and I was thinking, man, this is going to be so exciting and it turns out they didn't have enough microphones to go around for the whole cast and they ended up using their recordings from the previous year. It's the cake again. It's the same story now.

Sensitive moment where I was... They're passing the mics around and it gets to Christian. Wait, where's my microphone? Honestly, that one made me laugh. I thought that one, I think I had healed so much from the ice cream. I don't know.

Maybe dig myself out of this. explain so much but yeah no I have those are those are oh and the other thing was we had to do that show five times a day and you know during the holidays so I would wake up on Christmas day I had about 10 minutes to open the presents and then we had to run to the theater for me to be in the living nativity five times a day which was like a 20 minute you know thing where they lowered the scroll and they do the whole thing and I'm all for it yeah I get it the baby be Jesus, and I support it. I had my own little donkey that I would walk out there with and a staff.

But it was utter hell. I mean, it was utter hell. So it would be me up there with all the Rockettes, you know, because they were dressed up too, and they had their sheep and lambs and things that they needed for that. Because that was another fun thing about the radio cities. You could have live animals. The place was so big, they got a whole stable in the basement. Amazing.

It's like Noah's Hardtown. There's a menagerie down there. Yeah, it really is. People don't know about it. about that. No, no, it's like a laugh. You're like, everyone's like, why do it smell like poop here? Yeah, it's because of the giraffe down there. That's right. That's right.

Yeah, it's a whole zoo. I really have it. So, okay, we're jumping around. Film career. Oh, yeah, Legend of Billie Jean. So did it feel like immediately, did you tell, looking back, did you kind of take it for granted, or did you know how significant it was like because you were kind of often running.

Once the film career launched, you had a nice run there like it was happening. It was a good run. No doubt about it. I mean, you know, with the Legend of Billy Jean, that was kind of, you know, I had to go in, audition. I had to sit there with Helen Slater. We did the auditions together. And, you know, certainly at the time I was really, and still, you know, I think she's amazing.

But at the time, she just had done Supergirl. Yeah. So I was just like head over heels. And I couldn't believe I was getting the opportunity to be even. in her presence. So, you know, to get the job, I think that was like Peter Goober, who was the producer of that. Oh, wow.

So, you know, it was a pedigree to it. Yeah, yeah. And I got the job and I was really surprised and excited and didn't really know what to expect. And ended up having a great time. I did. I loved it. It was so fun. It was great, you know, Keith Gordon.

And then from there, I went back to New York. and then I got the name of the roast. I have to hear about that because just that's a good film and not, but it's also just like you and Sean Connery. Yeah. Like it's like major FaceTime. Yeah. And F. Murray Abraham.

Yeah. I mean, the people that were in that Ron Perlman. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, just some amazing actors. I mean, the directors are Jacques Canoe. But, but yes, of course, Sean Connery was somebody I truly idolized. I mean, he, I'd just seen all the James Bond movies. Sure.

I mean, I was, I was. of just going into that phase of getting what it is to be that kind of guy. And it was really very exciting. And he did turn out to be fantastic. Yeah. Because he doesn't strike me as somebody that would like be warm or frankly. You know, he's, he's, I wouldn't describe him either as necessarily warm, but just a man. You know, I mean, he is a man.

There's nothing about him that's, yeah, look, I'm sure he's, he does have his sensitivities. But, I mean, he is a man. that Sean Connery He grows that beard every morning Just the shades in It comes right back Exactly I mean he

There's no messing around with him You know And you know If like the Maybe a crew guy Was not treating a horse Or being a little too rough For the horse

He'd be like He would lay the law Yeah Yeah yeah And so you know Look he was I had just heard like an amazing story It was like

I was on another podcast actually About like how like Michael Bay Was negotiating for something He was trying to get like extra money Or something for a scene in The Rock. And he, like, went into a meeting, and he basically brought Sean Connery into the meeting. And it was Sean Connery basically said, like, you do this because...

You must the money. Basically. And there was, like, end of the meeting in two minutes. Right. Yeah. I mean, the guy is just... He's so good. And he did...

He was actually pretty sweet with me. And, you know, I had to do a pretty extensive love scene. I was very nervous about that. I mean, I don't think that would be legal today. You know, I was pretty crazy. It's unbelievable. But, you know, we weren't thinking about it. stuff like that, you know, I'm only thinking about that now. But, uh, and I, you know, no regrets or

anything like that. But he said, you know, just remember to breathe, boy. So that was his advice for me before I went in there. Um, obviously we won't have time to get into the room where we filmed it. They gotcha, got you. Um, I, I really love, uh, I love Tucker. I've always love Tucker. Thanks. I think that's like one, that's a poster I could actually, I put up here. It's a beautiful poster. It's a, it is a beautiful. It is. Yeah, I remember that one with Jeff bridges on there and yeah it was really good and did you know the significance of coppola like at that point where you like were you like were you steeped in film knowledge by them were you kind of like yes it was because uh to a certain degree because i did have a friend who uh his name is dan loria um great guy

great actor um and i grew up uh with him my mother knew him he was one of those actors that uh i guess had done some auditions for my mother and he actually used to babysit for me and when i was growing up So through him, I was introduced to a lot of movies, a lot of movies like network, you know, just a whole list of, you know, I mean, yeah, the Godfather, Godfather Part 2. Everybody needs somebody in their life to kind of like, introduce the records or the movies or both or whatever. Yeah, to pass that stuff along. And, you know, just my mind would be blown by these performances and these actors. And so I was really excited to work with him and Jeff Bridges too. I mean, I had just seen Starman.

Yeah, I think that was the other one. Yeah, totally. Yeah, yeah. That I just was, you know, love that. So that was a real family wonderful. Joan Allen was the mom. Fantastic. I mean, Martin Landau. Yeah.

Kind of brought Martin Lando back, I remember. Yeah. That's kind of out of it. That's right. Yeah. And that really put him, put him to some degree, I guess, back on the map. Yeah. And, you know, so, so again, just great cast and phenomenal director.

Lucas was around too because he was it a production of Skywalker and Zoetrope like a combination yes it was it was they were exactly nice is that right yeah because what was the company was it Zoetrope is that that that was that was that was right yeah yeah um back then they were yeah they were they're very tight uh so he was visiting the set so that was exciting when we were or when they were doing the sound for the movie it was at Skywalker wrench so i got to go there and as a kid that was pretty exciting because because I saw, like, the actual chess board from Star Wars, you know? I mean, like, they had the real stuff, obviously.

Yeah, I've never been up there. That's on the list. Oh, man. That's my mountaintop. It was, yeah, that's your pinnacle, yeah. No, that was good. So, speaking just, again, tangentially, we were, has too much been made of your Star Trek love? Were you a big Star Trek guy growing?

Still, still a big Star Trek-y guy. Honestly, yeah. In fact, I was feeling just, you know, well, I was in L.A., I was lonely a little bit. You know, my wife's in Miami, and so I was texting her and just kind of going, you know, I just feel a little sad. And she said, well, why don't you turn on some Star Trek? He knows you. So I did.

What Star Trek do you turn on to make yourself feel good? Well, it's Kirk and Spock. I mean, the original guys. Yeah, yeah. What's the episode you turned on? Just charming ones. Well, the trouble with tribbles, of course, is good. That one makes me laugh.

And it just, you know, I love those things that, like I said, about New York, you know, those areas that haven't changed that much. those things that are transportative, that take you back in time, like Italy, you know, you can go there and it's like a, it's just locked in time. It's like a museum, you know, and that's where I did Name of the Rose. So I always feel like, oh, you know, I'm still that kid walking around there. Well, again, you're in a safe place because growing up, I would go to like Star Trek conventions. I was hardcore trekking.

Well, you were wearing this box shirt. I had a sock shirt, exactly. So, yeah, yeah, no doubt, man. What do you, have you tried, have you put your name out there for all these new iterations? I mean, you could fit into both Abramsverse or the CBS discovery stuff? Yeah, I know. I love that. I mean, that really is.

That's something that we've talked about. I mean, we've looked at. I mean, that's certainly not something that I am remotely opposed to. And, you know, I love Lucasfilm. I'm enjoying the Star Wars movies. I'm enjoying the Star Trek movies. So, you know, now Quentin Tarantino is doing the one of them. Yeah, he is.

He's writing one. Yeah, yeah. I mean, so, you know, obviously it's going in a very interesting direction. You know, it's just interesting how this business changes and evolves and, you know, people, you know, to a certain degree, like years ago, that would be like a forbidden thing to do, like, come on, Clinton Tarantino, you can't write a. Right. But now, yeah, everything's, everybody's open to new things. In the same way, like, looking at your career early on, like, you had done a couple TV things, but once you did film, it was like, you're a film actor. Right.

And there was not that crossover. broke out of TV, you were a film writer. You're like, by Ricky Schroeder, good luck with that. Yeah, well, nothing against Rick, because remember him in the champ, I mean, he started in the champs this guy. That's true. That's true. So just just to give him the dude. That was on me. I have

watched that movie. You know what's interesting though is you watch those movies again and they are interminably long. Yes, the pacing is, it's a different pace. It's a whole different thing. I mean, because I remember watching that movie and bawling my eyes out and thinking, this is the greatest movie ever. tried to show it to my kids.

Yeah, no. It doesn't work. No. Same thing with Benji. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nothing goes on in that movie. Especially the kids kind of movies. Like, there's something like, I think of this is a much different kind of example,

but like the conversation, which I think does hold up. Oh, okay. But that is a very deliberate. You're soaking it in, I guess. Yeah, that one has a, I feel like a deliberate. Yeah, there's something to that. And at least it's like artistic. That's true.

But for a kid, a kid can't watch Benji today. Yeah, yeah. The dog, there's an hour and a half of this dog just running around. it's all he does I mean it was like the original dodo you know that we got on our phones now we can look at those you know funny cute dog videos

and that's cute for two seconds right no but for 97 minutes yeah my kids were like what the heck is this where's the movie dad yeah yeah yeah oh my god um heathers will follow you till the day you die in a good way I hope

I mean have you reconciled I mean this is a great thing to have hanging over your head no I've got no problem with that um yeah I mean, I've been, I think, even more honest about it lately. You know, I mean, I'm just like, look, I was a young kid, extraordinarily impressionable. You know, kind of at that particular age, you know, you're looking for all these different identities to kind of glom on to.

So, you know, yeah, I was a fan of Spencer Tracy. I was a fan of Humphrey Bogart. I was, again, through my friend Dan Loria. And then I saw Easy Rider. I saw One Flow of the Cuckoo's Nest. Then I saw Witches of Eastwick And I was like, holy jeez I hit the jackpot, this is where I'm going for

I hit the jackpot, exactly And no pun intended Right Yeah So you were doing a little You were doing a little Nicholson in there Oh man I was like This is who I want to emulate

And this is who I want to be And this is the guy You know that I just He was great He is great There's no doubt about it Yeah So yeah

So you know I did do You know imitation to a certain degree of him. I mean, it was obviously it was still me and there's, you know, but to, yeah, to a certain degree, that was certainly in my brain as I was making that movie. And look, if that's what I was doing,

I'm certainly grateful people picked up on that. There's nothing to apologize for. It's a great performance. It's like... So, yeah, so it's just interesting to have been like a kid looking for that identity, you know, so I guess you sort of, for me, like the journey of this deal has been

to a certain degree. I mean, this isn't going to some at all up, but like it started out as a kid. It was a lot of fun. Yeah. You know, then you look for an identity and then you imitate for a while and then you kind of get to this point where you start questioning yourself like, what is this business? Because yeah, it is fun. I am relying on my instincts a lot, but maybe I should learn something about it. Yeah. So then I got into this acting class with Larry Moss. Yeah. He kicked my ass around the stage for a while. So what, when did that occur? That happened when I was about 30. Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I was like, I just got to this point of like, why am I even doing this?

I don't, it's, you know, you can only do it for fun for so long, you know, and then you've got to kind of dig a little bit deeper because that's just too surface. Right, because like you feel like maybe to a degree you're coasting on instinct and, and just presence. I'm kind of getting away with murder and it's only a matter of time

and, you know, the clock is ticking. Yeah. You know, so, so I did get some good advice, I think, from a friend and they said, well, maybe you should check out this acting class and I did. I went in there and like I said, I mean, he was brutal you know he was brutal because my thing was uh you know less is more yeah and uh here i am doing a scene from this play called the dreamer examines his pillow and i was working with this other

actress who came in and you know she'd really created a character you did like a wig and makeup and the clothes and the whole thing i looked there i was like take it easy you know what are you doing and you know i did my thing and uh you the he larry was so complimentary to the actress i'm just like scratching my head going really wasn't that over the top i don't get it And then he came to me and he was like, how dare you, you know? Don't you have any respect for the amount of work and time that this writer took to create this character? And you come in and, you know, and do what you just did. Huh.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, you know, I ended up sticking with the class and, you know, understanding what it is to actually get the opportunity to immerse yourself in a character. and, you know, put somebody else's shoes on and really get as deeply into it as you possibly can. And then I started to get a better understanding of, you know, I can't put it in any other way than to say that it does feel like a gift to get the opportunity to do that. It's not something that everybody gets the chance to do. And it's a blessing and it's a gift. And so today I'm much clear on, um,

Appreciating that. Well, and also, like, you know, having traversed the roller coaster of a career, there's perspective and knowing it's not tied to your, hopefully to yourself worth, that it's a lot of it's out of your hands, most of it's out of your hands. That's a huge lesson. Oh, my God. Yes. Yeah. No, no, it's true because, yeah, you can think it's, it's all. It's every time you get involved in a project, you don't know, you know, what the outcome is going to be. It's always like a leap of faith. I mean, you can try and stack the deck to the best of your abilities. but at the end of the day you don't know how an audience is going to react to it you don't know how a director is going to put it all together or if they're going to capture the right moments

the moments that you want them to really focus on so yeah it's very tricky I mean that well go ahead no I was gonna say because it's gotta be

a bit of a mind fuck for somebody who's like has this like really extraordinary run like very early in the career and like you're being celebrated over and over again right and you're no I know

I mean look yeah yeah You're doing well now so we can say this. Okay, okay, yeah. You know what I mean? But like, you know, and there's Robin Hood and there's the good stuff and all this stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then there is inevitably as with literally every actor.

Sure. Like if even Tom Cruise has had a few bad years, like everybody. Even that guy, yeah. I hear he's coming back strong. The new movie's great. Have you seen it? Yeah, it's so good. Oh, man, yeah.

I watched five last night just to get caught up. That's a good one, too. It's great, too. It's one of my favorites. I was like, how are they going to do better than this? But don't tell me. Okay. But I'm very excited.

it's good you like it. And I have plans to see it with my daughter on Sunday. Nice, nice. But, um, but I guess my point is like what, then you get, if you have like a string of disappointments, does that, like, what do you remember about like whatever, if there was like kind of a, when you look back in retrospect of like a dry run or a run of films that weren't working? What was that making you question what? What did it make you question or how did you get out of it? Well, I think that was probably more the impetus of the act. acting class, too. I mean, that was like, holy moly, okay, things, you know, I was cruising along, everything was fine. Yeah. And then, you know, boom, you hit some hurdles. Right. Um, you know,

you, why didn't hard rain make $100 million guys? Yeah, dude. I mean, that, yeah, uh, what can you say? I mean, and that's another one where you get involved is like, here's this huge opportunity. Yeah. Um, originally the movie was called the flood. I thought that was safer. You know, That seemed like a legit thing. And you're thinking about Twister and those types of movies. So, come on. Can't miss. Yeah, can't miss.

It's going to be fine. It's also, you know, it was James Cameron's DP. Oh. You know, Mikhail Solomon. I mean, this is going to be it, man. He had done the abyss. Like, this guy couldn't know any more about water. He's a water guy.

If you're going to do a movie about water and spend six months up to your fucking neck, Sorry, I don't know if I'm allowed to curse. I can, you know. So, Morgan Freeman. Morgan Freeman, Golden actor. We're getting the Robin Hood team back together. This can't miss. I mean, so you stack the deck to the best of your ability, you know, and then, look, that was a, that was a particularly, yeah, you know, I don't want to talk about it over, too much, but, you know, I had like, just, you know, it was a hard movie to make.

Yeah. It was a, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, you know, uh, it was, you know, uh, so as far as being, uh, grounded, I think I was feeling, uh, anxiety, you know, about, uh, like this business and, and, uh, you know, I was, I was, you know, doing other things to escape from that. No, I got you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, okay. No, no, no. I think people can understand. I'm reading between the lines. Where I was at that particular time. And it was hard.

It was challenging. And, you know, but we're, yeah. Life goes up. And I don't want to belabor stuff like this. And we don't have needs to get in details. But, like, I am curious. I'll scream again. Yeah.

It can't get worse than the chocolate cake to the discussion. That was brutal. Yeah, that was brutal. But, like, you know, you did interview with a vampire partially, I think, to honor your friend, River, and had an opportunity. Like, you know, we, I knew him. I, I, I thought we'd be, like, competing with each other for the rest of our lives, you know, I mean, I thought, were you on that circuit together?

It was just always kind of, you know, look, I, you know, we were both auditioned for interview with vampire, you know, I mean, I went in, I met with Neil Jordan. He went in, he met with Neil Jordan, and Neil Jordan made his choice, you know. So, so, you know, when he, that was like, oh, my God, you know, I mean, that was inconceivable. Yeah, it still is kind of. That was, yeah, it's like, oh, you know, horrible, horrible thing. And I didn't even think that I would be anywhere near that movie. Yeah.

And I wasn't really necessarily comfortable doing it until, you know, making the decision to donate the money, you know, to his charities. And that took the sting out of filling in for somebody who had just died, you know, that helped. Yeah. You know, just because what did give me an opportunity to honor. this guy that I certainly did respect. Oh my gosh, yeah. I thought his work was great and stand by me. It was amazing.

And, you know, he was certainly an actor that I was emulating because, you know, the movies that I was involved with were not necessarily commercial successes in America. I mean, in Europe, people responded to the name of the Rose. It made, you know, however many, much

money it did. But as far as being commercially viable, he seemed to be going in another. Yeah. Even Heather's, I was shocked to read, like, only made like, literally a million dollars. here. No, like, a lot of the, the majority of the movies that I have done, have been cult successes later, you know, I mean, they weren't initially successes, even true romance. That, you know, I mean, there were so many political things going on at that particular time. There's a lot of

blame on entertainment on video games for violence and kids acting out and things like that and people kind of put true romance, which it is a violent movie. Yeah. In that same sort of category so there was a lot of backlash for the entertainment industry or trying to push those kinds of boundaries and they're still doing that but at that particular time it sort of fell victim to one of those uh that that time frame but it has since become the movie that i would say most people will come up to me about right and you know i'm thrilled i mean that script that direction by tony and the uh and i mean from oldman to what everyone's doing that is interesting, from Val Kilmer to Hopper to

everybody's doing something cool. And then, you know, what's weird is, you know, there's that show Barry now. Yeah, I love that show. You know, you watch that show and he's doing a scene from True Romance. I think he was doing the Gary Oldman scene and, you know, from true romance. So, so that's just

a wild thing to see. It's weird for me to see like the musical version of Heather's off Broadway and it's just crazy. It's crazy and hard to watch somebody else doing my No, no, no, it's fine. Jump on stage, take over.

Yeah, I'm sitting there chomping at the bed. Typical actor. We should more than mention the very fine film that you're in, which I really enjoyed. It's called The Wife and Glenn Close, Jonathan Price. I mean, obviously, it's a collection of... No, we've talked about everything, but now we're getting to the... Now we're up to current events. Yeah, well, not really.

I mean, I could spend another hour on the rest of your career. You really could do a three-hour thing. But I look at the clock, and I want to make sure I'm giving love to the wife. Thanks, thanks, yes, of course, yes. I mean, I have 10 questions about Robin Hood. Let's be real. Yeah, sure. But the wife.

The wife, yes. What is the satisfaction of something like that? I mean, it has to be, it's getting to play with Glenn, I would imagine. Definitely. I mean, this was a script that, again, you know, like I was at a particular point in my career where I was doing these TV shows and trying to find, like, some place for me to fit in in this world. and not really feeling always 100% secure about a lot of these things. And, you know, I had done Nymphomaniac with Lars Montreier.

And that was, that was great. That experience was fantastic. I mean, that I learned a great deal on. And, you know, he certainly helped me to slow everything down a lot. Interesting. Tell me a little bit more about that. I'm just curious. But I think because having gone into TV and thinking like that was such a fast-moving train,

you know, he would write these eloquent speeches about trees and I would speed through them. And, you know, I know you got to get to the next set-up hours. Right, exactly, you know, so he was like, well, what the hell was that? I didn't hear a word of that and let's slow it down. So it was just one of the more gentle, wonderful experiences. And, you know, it was a situation where he would, you know, allow the camera to roll. He really didn't get in our vicinity and allowed a lot of things to just happen organically. And that turned out to be just a phenomenal experience.

And also a role that I had gotten or people wouldn't necessarily think of me as sort of this, you know, frustrated, innocent father, you know, normally. or yeah I was glad to be in something where I wasn't necessarily causing the damage you know this was something like the girl really loved her father and he really loved her and it was okay you know so and it was just heartbreaking

when he died the way that he died it was brutal so I loved getting that opportunity and then reading a script like the wife this was another opportunity to you know kind of play a little bit of a shady character which I'm fine with

But, you know, he had some edge, but I felt like his motivations were legitimate. Yeah. And I also felt like he was trying to have this woman, you know, take responsibility and stand up for herself. And, you know, come on. Couldn't possibly understand the concept of somebody not being comfortable in the spotlight. Yes. This character, Nathaniel Bone, whose name I love, you know, because... Sometimes it's just about the name.

That's a good starting point. It is. I mean, that definitely is. in building the foundation, you know, and I look at this guy as he found, you know, a red flag in Joseph Castleman's Jonathan Price's character's past. Yeah. And he's like a dog with a bone, you know, he doesn't want to let it go. So maybe that's a little obvious. But I hold onto it. You know, these are my, you know, things that I think about. And so, so yeah, getting the opportunity and then getting the opportunity to do the scenes that I have with Glenn was extraordinarily

exciting and I have always been a huge fan of hers and and look I mean this movie has uh I you know again you don't know I we made it in Glasgow we shot it in a few weeks I had my parts in it I didn't necessarily know what they were doing or even the flashback stuff right so um you know so I did my part it it felt good and I really enjoyed it and I love working with her and then the other night I was in LA at the screening and I mean you could hear a pin drop in the theater I mean you could hear a pin drop in the theater. I mean, it is, it is a riveting. Absolutely. Movie. I was mesmerized by Glenn. Their authentic, raw, real relationship. It's a very honest portrayal. There are, yeah, there are like so many subtleties. And, and there's just so much

reality in it. And, you know, you're dealing with, like, ego and fame and all the bullshit of that. And then you close the door and you get to see what's going on behind the scenes and the reality of that stuff. I mean, the secrets and, oh, my God, I, you know, those deals that you make when you're younger in a relationship and next thing you know, it's 40 years later and you're still in this situation, it's like 40 years of resentment building up. Whoa, you know, I mean, that's a lot to comprehend. And, you know, I mean, you make these choices, you make these sacrifices and, you know, then yeah, you end up looking back and it's like, whoa, what the hell have I done? So there's so many things in this movie that, that I just found, I was, I don't remember.

I remember breathing while I was watching it. I remember taking a big breath at the end of it. I was going, whoa, man, she's phenomenal. And so is Jonathan. I think that great. And Annie, Stark. I mean, she does a, I mean, there's Glenn Close's daughter playing a young Glenn Close. I did not even realize that until you just told me that.

Yeah. That's amazing. That's Glenn Close's daughter playing her. And, you know, they didn't communicate much, you know, it's like, because she, they shot it in sequence. I've come to find out. And so they shot all those scenes first. And then Glenn, you know, but it certainly lays the brilliant foundation for the future relationship. Totally.

I mean, my gosh, it was so beautifully written script. Love the part for me. And I've been nothing but impressed. Yeah, and unexpected, too. So that's great. So if we're charting out, because obviously every actor has control of their own career. Yeah, okay. Yeah, sure.

You didn't know that? Well, Tom Cruise does. Yeah, Tom Cruise does. Yeah, he does. But nobody else. So we're getting you into a Star Trek TV show or movie. Okay, yeah, exactly, exactly. I mean, what is like, because you've done a lot of theater in recent years.

Mr. Robot, obviously, is only a boon for a career. Sure. That's been great. I'm not about it. I mean, what is, like, kind of like, does it feel like there's something you're itching to do, whether it's a form or a kind of a character? Like, does that happen for you? And is that even useful to think about that kind of thing?

No, it is, absolutely. And I think I'm at a point more. now where I want to be more of a contributor to the entertainment industry, you know, just maybe develop some things, create some of my own ideas. Yeah. You know, so that sort of direction, I think. Maybe even not necessarily things that I have to be in, but things that are producible.

Yeah, yeah. So that's sort of still, of course, want to continue to be involved in the business, but I do love the behind-the-scenes aspect of it as well. Is there a long-held, decades-long secret script idea that you want to reveal for the first time and half a second piece? No, there's nothing I want to reveal. But there is an idea or two. Oh, sure, of course.

Yeah, no, there's definitely things and things that percolate. And like a movie like The Wife, it took 14 years for that to come to fruition. And finally, open on August 17th. Right, August 17th. Well done. Look at that. Day before my birthday. dropped it so casually and then but then you had to say the right which made it like obvious I know well

that's what I usually I know that's I that's what I do it's because I feel so phony about it no we sold you're an actor I know you're a good one not in real life like I I would rather be you know truthful or yeah because because this performance aspect of it is not always my favorite you know like I love the when somebody else has written the lines and and I can honor that and like I just did Glenn Gary Glenn Ross in London and that So cool. The Ricky part, right? Yeah, Ricky Roma.

That's amazing. That's a gift. That's great experiment. I mean, that was one of those things that I dreamt about getting the chance to do. And I loved it. It was, it was wonderful. So were you not comfortable the last 45 minutes being yourself? You don't, were you performing?

I have been. I just didn't like it when I tried to sneak in the plug. I see. It's the plug that I'm like, all you're 17. Yeah, right? Did I do that? That's something you say to your publicist. How was that?

You know, right? That's what you do. As we wrap up, we didn't even talk about our mutual love of Winona. Oh, yeah. I mean, Winona Horowitz, by the way. It's all in the family. Right.

Wow. It's the most surreal part of my life in that, like in recent years. I've gotten to know Winona thanks to like her recent projects because, you know, I'm in the right demo. I'm in the right age group. She can do no wrong. Oh, my God. No. She's phenomenal.

Has it been surreal to see like both of you get Mr. Robots. She gets stranger things in recent years. It's like life is crazy. If I were in control of my career, yeah, I would definitely do a stranger things bit. I mean, that would be a lot of fun. Have they not come to you to be in strange things? danger things? No.

That is a no-brainer. I mean, I just, it's, that's with this, I don't know. Okay, we're, like you said. We are manifesting that right now because that is the most obvious thing in a good way. Maybe it's too obvious. No, no, no, no, no. It's a good thing. They cast you against type.

It doesn't have to play into whatever pre-conceived notions. Sure, right. We could do that. Oh, we did it. Hey, you know, if we were up to us. This is the first step. Yeah, that's the first step. This is it.

Let it now trickle out from here. We've dropped the pebble. I feel it. I feel it rippling through the universe to you? Exactly, yeah. Congratulations on the wife. Congratulations on being in Stranger Things, Season 5, or whatever we get you into. Okay, yeah, sure. I'll take it.

And give this man some chocolate cake. When it comes around, just give him the cake. Yes, exactly. Don't steal my cake. But since then, I've learned to share. So now I'm okay with that. Now I'll be the one. I just like to have the choice.

You know, I don't want to just somebody, I don't want to be a joke at somebody else's, or I don't want to be. No, I got you. What is it, what I'm trying to say, the expense of somebody else's jokes? You can owe you... Yeah. As long as I'm circulating the cake, you will get a piece. Nice, man. Thanks.

Good to have you here today. You too, dude. That was fun. And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh. I'm Amy Nicholson, the film critic for the LA Times. And I'm Paul Shear, an actor, writer, and director.

You might know me from The League, Veep, or my non-eligible for Academy Award role in Twisters. We love movies, and we come at them from different perspectives. Yeah, like Amy thinks that, you know, Joe Pesci was miscast in Goodfellas, and I don't. He's too old. Let's not forget that Paul thinks that. Dude, too, is overrated. It is. Anyway, despite this, we come together to host Unspooled, a podcast where we talk about

good movies, critical hits. Fan favorites, must-season, and Casey Mistoms. We're talking Parasite the Home Alone. From Greece to the Dark Night. We've done deep dives on popcorn flicks. We've talked about why Independence Day deserves a second look. And we've talked about horror movies, some that you've never even heard of like Ganges and Hess. So if you love movies like we do, come along on our cinematic adventure.

Listen to Unspooled wherever you get your podcast. And don't forget to hit the follow button.