Happy Sad Confused - Christopher Abbott

Episode Date: October 1, 2026

Christopher Abbott finally joins the podcast! Josh and Christopher sit down to chat about his new limited series EAST OF EDEN, why his time on GIRLS almost made him quit acting, how he landed the role of Charles Xavier in the upcoming X-MEN film, and how even he doesn’t understand what was going on in KRAVEN THE HUNTER. Plus, Christopher shares his reaction to losing a Tony Award, how a GAME OF THRONES fan mistook him for Kit Harington, and more! SUPPORT THE SHOW BY SUPPORTING OUR SPONSORS! Rula -- Rula patients typically pay $15 per session when using insurance. Connect with quality therapists and mental health experts who specialize in you at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.rula.com/happy⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ #rulapod Quince -- Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Quince.com/HAPPYSAD ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠for free shipping and 365-day returns. Limited Time Offer–Get Huel today with my exclusive offer of 15% OFF online with my code happy15 at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://huel.com/happy15.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ New Customers Only. Thank you to Huel for partnering and supporting our show! UPCOMING EVENTS! 10/14 – Olivia Colman & Alexander Skarsgard – Tickets here:  ⁠https://www.92ny.org/event/wicker⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Will X-Men be better than Craven the Hunter? Can you guarantee me that? I will guarantee you that. At least me, at least from my own, you know what I mean? Yeah. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins. Hey, guys, it's Josh.

Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Today on the show, Christopher Abbott is here. He's starring in East of Eden, and he's just been cast in the next X-Men film as Professor X. There's lots to discuss in this one. Remember, guys, if you enjoy what I do, check out our Patreon. Patreon.com slash happy, sad, confused, early access to every single episode of the podcast. You can ask questions of our guests. You can get access to our live events.

All that and more on our Patreon. Check it out. If you like what I do, support us over there. Okay, let's talk about the main. event. Christopher Abbott's been on the list for a while. He was Tony nominated this past year for his role in death of a salesman. He's been killing it in independent film like James White. He, of course, really came to the floor, I think, in girls about a decade ago. And especially in recent years, though, has really just cemented his role as kind of a character actor, leading man. He can

bounce between independent film and blockbusters. And he's really at an interesting point in his life and career right now. And I'm so thrilled we got him at this precise moment. because East of Eden is an epic giant giant John Steinbeck novel. He's fantastic in it. But also to get him right when he's just had a kid. He's just been cast in X-Men. Tons to talk about. And a guy that I feel like seeing in other interviews maybe projects a serious vibe. And while there is that in this conversation, also kind of a goofball. Very funny in this conversation. So I think you'll see a different side of Christopher Abbott here. And I'm so thrilled he chose to reveal it on Happy Say I Confused today. So without any further ado, here it is me and Christopher Abbott.

Enjoy. It's been a long time coming. Christopher Abbott, you're not be sad confused. Yeah, I am finally here. Thank you for doing this man. You don't see my eye twitching, do you? See, your whole body is just vibrating. Yeah.

Are you nervous? No, no, I'm not nervous. No, no, I feel great. I'm not nervous at all. I've just been lack of sleep. You have a lot going on, man. Yeah, so don't zoom in on my left eye. Zoom in.

I have bad news for you. What's up? You might be peaking. This is peak Christopher Abbott. This year, let's take... Is it downhill? You're saying? I'm not saying that.

That's how I feel anyway about... It's always going to be downhill. Yeah, yeah. Let's take stock for a second. I don't like when things go well. Then you must be miserable right now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you turn the big four row.

Congratulations. That's right. That too. You got nominated for a Tony. Yeah. He became a dad. Yeah. Your professor X.

Yeah. And the next one, a championship. I know. when you really reflect on it like that. How would you rank those accomplishments? Oh, boy. I got to put dad first. You better.

Then Nix. Obviously. Just because I've been waiting, you know, I've been a Nix fan my whole life. Yeah. You know, so I've been waiting for that the longest. Because I didn't want to be necessarily be an actor when I was a kid, so I can't say I've been waiting to get nominated for a Tony. Did you want to be a basketball player?

And my cynical nature goes, I didn't win. Right. So, you know, can't really sell. celebrate that too hard, can you? Did you have the speech ready? I don't need to hold this, right? No, but if you want, it feels like it's your security blanket. Speaking of them, I feel like I'm doing like an OG and an OB

and Obie thing. You know what I mean? You're the Tauldegga Knight's guy that doesn't know how to. Yeah. Well, I feel like it's gonna float away. I don't know. It's there for you. All right, it's there.

All right, I'm not gonna touch it. Did you have a Tony award speech ready? Were you superstitious just in case? I had, I had not, not written, but I had sort of points I was gonna hit. It wasn't gonna be that long, you know. Right. But it was funny.

Like, I had never been, I mean, I've been like nominated for things before, but I had this feeling where I was like, right before it happened, you know, you get that six cents where you're like, oh, I'm going to win. Right, right, right. And then I got really anxious and nervous. And then I didn't. And then it was this weird relief and adrenaline dump because I immediately got a headache. I immediately got a headache, was exhausted, and I had to poop.

So after I didn't win, those are the three feelings I had and then I wanted to leave. It was just an adrenaline dump. So the famous post-tony poop that people always talk about. Like as soon as you lose, you have a good poop. It's a secret, yeah. Yeah. In a tux. Just poop your pants.

For the record, he came in talking poop and we're still talking poop. I farted. Just now or at the toadis? No, no, right after. That's what happened. I saved it, but I got a headache and I farted when I didn't win. what happened. Is this Christopher brain on having a toddler of having a little, a little kid around the house? Yeah, I'm tired all the time. Yeah. Yeah. But no, this is kind of how I'm, I'm relaxed and I'm

comfortable. So this is, this is what you get from me. Was the, this is perfect. This is all you get. Was the, I don't need any thoughtfulness. I want, I want poop talk. Was, was turning, was your 30th year as momentous as your 40th year? Do you remember what your life was like? No, I don't remember. Doing the math, it was probably, my recall is also terrible. So this is going to go great. Yeah. You know, we shot East of Eden, just to jump ahead. We shot East of Eden two years ago. Oh, no.

There's, it's all, it's all a wash. All you need to know is it's very funny. It's the, it's stay for the looper real. I think it's hilarious. No, but I, but my, you know, I remember, obviously remember my 40th because that was more recent. I don't remember what, what I did on my 30th birthday. But yeah, so it's, it was, it was really, I had a surprise party. Just not for the 40th.

which was really, I never had that. Because I don't want it. And most of my friends know I don't want it. How do you react? It was beautiful. It was really sweet because, I mean, you, you know, you forget that people like you and they show up. You forget?

Well, I think it's human nature. You know what I mean? People get so sort of busy and caught up with their lives. And it's not, I know my friends love me, but it's just, it's a weird thing to sort of see them all in one room. You feel like, you know, again, my brain goes cynical and dark. So you almost feel like it's a, almost felt like it was like a funeral. You know, it was really a mo.

Was it something I should know guys? It was a living funeral, you know what I mean? Because you're like all these people that, you know, like, you're like, oh my God, you know, but they're just in a restaurant. So it is interesting because you've had all these occasions this year to be kind of like forced reflection on somebody that like, you know, like turning a big age. Midlife crisis. All these midlife things. Like having the kid, the Tony. all these things are like occasions to be like, oh, like, where am I in my personal and professional

life? Yeah, yeah. And it sounds like your brain can be your worst enemy, like just like spiraling a little bit on that kind of stuff or are you? Yeah, but my brain can sort of spiral on more big picture stuff. You know, I mean, I know we're joking around about the Tony thing before. But, you know, I think by now, at least in my work, I sort of worked long enough and feel like I've been around and have met and kept really good.

friends within the business. So I feel sort of comfortable with work in terms of like, it comes and it goes. It's, you know, the highs, like, the highs are going to dip down eventually, then you'll, you know, so I've gotten more comfortable with that. But, you know, having a kid 40 getting older, like the bigger existential things sort of are way a little bit more. Do you feel like from a career perspective, you're, are you as ambitious now as you were at at 20 or 30? Like, what do, what does ambition look like for you now? It's, it's not more, it's, it's different. You know what I mean? It's different. I feel, you know, when I, when I started out in New York and mostly in theater, you know, that, I'm reflecting

on it, I thank God for my naivete at the time, you know, and also the landscape is completely different now, you know, even just like auditioning or like sort of, the pavement like I did back then of like going showing just showing up to auditions I wasn't asked to be at or you know so that's even different so I had because of my naive nature at the time I had a lot of ambition because I didn't know you know I if I knew then what I knew now I probably would have gave up sooner right didn't realize how the odds were so no at the time I felt like any day I'm like any day I'm gonna make it you know what I mean

I mean, like just one audition, that's all it takes. You know what I mean? Just one good audition. But now, you know, so it's, but I think that gave me something. It was about doing the math pro 20 years ago when you moved here to the city, right? Yeah, 2006 I moved here. Yeah. So you grow up in Connecticut, you move here.

Yeah. And you're immediately, is it theater auditions immediately? Are you going up for TV's commercial stuff? I grew up in Connecticut. I was going to community college at the time. Yeah. I didn't grow up rich. I always feel like that's still a chip in my.

my shoulder because people, I think people can't get this guy you you assume yeah yeah I mean I wasn't dirt poor obviously but but you know I just felt like I needed to sit there but I was going to community college this is a therapy session I mean it kind of feels like one I mean that's what podcasts are basically right I mean they become yeah you know it's just the cheaper way to do it yeah it is much cheaper goes going to community college I took my first like class in community college in Connecticut and that's where I sort of of learned that oh I like a I like this and B I think I'm pretty good yeah it was a little bit big fish small pond scenario but then quickly went to HB Studio in New York

which is this little like you can take as many classes as you want and which was good and it was cheap which is part of the reason why I went but it was also really great school I had great teachers and then yeah I mean just hustling around like I was starting to you know I would audition for plays I remember I audition for a play Spanish Fly, which is classic play, but it was in the back of a bar in Queens. And they were like, it was so thinking back on it now, it's just been, yeah, it's been a wild, it's been a very long wild ride. Did you have kind of a crew of actors you kind of came up age with, do you feel like? Well, yeah, I mean, like, so, you know, like Mona Fastfold, who's a director,

who I've worked with now multiple times. She was one of my first friends. I met her in school. She was acting at the time. So you knew her before Brady. Yeah, I like did a, I'm, I, I'm, Yeah, I knew her before Brady. She was one of my first friends in school. My friend Michael Epp, he's an actor, he's in Germany. But so those are my first, like, you know, and that's sort of a beautiful long story. Because Mona has obviously stopped acting, but she's gone on to have like a great directing career. That's why we work together all the time.

And then over the years, yeah, you know, it's like when I, you know, I met like, tons of people, Sam Rockwell. I did Williamstown with and he's stayed and remained a good friend. Yeah, it's just sort of you pick up people along the way. Lucy Thurber is a playwright. She was like one of the first people that sort of gave me any opportunity, you know, like to do a reading of a play. Yeah, so just thinking it's thinking back on it now.

It's just so many chapters. Well, that's the fun thing that you were saying about your 40th. It's like you kind of like realize only way you kind of collect all these people. You meet them at different points in your life and career. And yeah, I feel like New York, I feel like, I'm sure, I know you're able to do that in other cities, but there's, there's a special quality to it here. Yeah. And maybe because of theater, you know, or just run into people easier. I don't know. Did you ever have to want to do the LA thing or no? I didn't have to. I didn't feel like I had to. I've done it in, you know, in an old school way. Like I would go out there for like pilot, you know, seasons and stuff like that. And that was, I I preferred, I did it here too. I preferred it here. I didn't like driving around and it was just too, it was just too much. So no, I never, I like L.A. I like visiting and I have friends there, but I never wanted to live there. More happy, say, confused coming up. Okay, when I sell my business, I want the best tax and investment advice. I want to help my kids and I want to give back to the community.

Ooh, then it's the vacation of a lifetime. I wonder if my out of office has a forever setting. An IG Private Wealth Advisor creates the clarity you need with plans that harmonize your business, your family, and your dreams. Get financial advice that puts you at the center. Find your advisor at IGPrivatewealth.com. From morning hockey with a cup of coffee to Timbits and road trips. Tims and Canadian Tire have always gone together. Now it's official. You can now earn Canadian Tire money at Tim's.

Link your Triangle Rewards and Tim's Rewards accounts to earn twice with every Tim's run. Terms and Conditions Apply. Visit timhordens.ca. slash triangle for details. So you were kind of, I mean, it's safe to say you've, when you look at your own ambitions as an actor, kind of a late bloomer. Like you didn't really even contemplate acting until you're close to 20. I think comparatively to other actors a little later. Yeah, like 20 years old. Yeah. 1920. Were you consuming like film and theater and TV like any other kid or in a more aggressive way? Movies I was consuming a lot. Yeah. You know, all.

I watch movies all the time. I watch movies my mom, my parents, my uncle, took me to movies all the time. That was the thing we did. And then when I was one of my first jobs while I was in high school, I worked at a video store, which is moot or obsolete now. But I mean, I would just, I would watch movies at work

and I would bring movies home. And we were, there was two video stores in our town. There was a video hut, it was called, and there was a blockbuster. And we had like, we were the smaller sort of family run, not my family, but a family run business. And, you know, we had a pretty good like foreign film section. Yeah, this is a video head, obviously. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, comparing it to blockbuster, which had, you know, so I sort of got a good education because we had more obscure things. Because I've heard you talk about like Casavetti's being kind of like a big influence those films. But I mean, I would imagine like no 12 year old is like watching Cassavetes. maybe that comes a little bit into your teenage years. Like were you kind of combining highbrow brow lowbrow? Were you watching all like the big blockbuster stuff as well as?

Everything. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because my taste has sort of, it can sound almost pretentious sometimes. But then the movies I reference as my favorites have often been like, well, they're still good movies, but not, you know, I reference Mrs. Doubtfire all the time as one of my favorites. But, you know, and it feels like a joke, but it's such a good script. And it's such a, it's like one of the best movies about divorce. Yeah. And talk about a committed performance.

It's so good and so, and it still gets me. Yeah. Like when I watched it, I rewatched it, you know, I watch movies before to fall asleep often. And I was doing press in London and I was trying to fall, I was trying to fall asleep. And I just put on Mrs. Delfire. But it's, and it still gets me. Yeah. It really does.

The drive by fruiting, the run by fruiting? What's the, what's the line? Yeah. Oh, it's in the accent. Yeah, when she throws, when, uh, throws a lime at his head. But that's the, what a great, you know, watching that movie as a kid and then, um, and loving it for the, whatever comedy and moments then. And now you, it's all the little asides that Robin, that I'm picking up as an old, you know, that are the funniest things to me. Yeah.

It's the little asides that he does and that are really good. It's funny because I do think, I mean, I don't know how where you are of like your place in the universe or what. people perceive of you. I think you're perceived as a serious, a very serious dude. Do you think that's... I think that's fair. I mean, just because of like the work I do and I'm not, I'm not a, you know, I'm not really on social media or anything. So I don't, um, I don't put myself out there that much, but I think, you know, it's sort of on purpose. Yeah. But I mean, even like the choices you've made, like especially in that first kind of, or, you know, you're not making choices the first five years of your career, right? No. So you're taking

anything you can get. So maybe part of it is luck. But like the verse 10, 15, years of your career, it's like there seems to be like an aesthetic that you're drawn to, a type of film. And I don't know if you're consciously running away from Hollywood stuff or not. No, no, because I like big movies. You know what I mean? It's just, it's so, I like to think I've, you know, you can only do so much curation. Yeah. You know, and then so much of it is, you know, I'm so dependent on other people and, and timing and job, you know what I mean? So it's, you try to curate within within happenstance. Yeah. You know? So the big markers, which we should hit and obviously we'll get to East of Eden, but I want to hit some of the major ones. I mean like,

but can I say one thing? Yeah. Is like even in the serious roles or whatever, like I always try to, like, you know, maybe other people don't think it's funny, but I, sometimes I think, like, I always try to infuse some humor, even in the darkest stuff. Is there, should I rewatch East of Eden? What should I, what's the humor I should look for in that? I think I, I think there is some funny things in it. Let's talk about East to meet it. So this is, this is, this is an ambitious piece of work. This is Zoe Kazan, um, interpreting this, obviously classic Steinbeck novel,

1952 novel. Um, this is, these are big shoes to fill for everybody. Um, seven parts you, Mike Feist, great Florence Pew, talk to me. Is this like, did you know Zoe like just being in New York? Was she a contemporary friend? I'm, I'm getting self-conscious of how I'm sitting. Do I look, am I look like I'm, do I look like I'm sliding down.

I'll slide down with you. Oh, one second. Let me prop up a little bit. Okay, there we go. Good posture. Talking about a weighty work. The proper interview here. Let me get set.

This is the important stuff. Zoe, yeah, Zoe, I've known for a while through like, you know, New York Theatre World and we have a lot of mutual friends, but this is the first time we'd work together. But, you know, I'd seen plays that she's acted in, plays that she's written. So, I mean, I knew, before I even read it, I knew it was going to be well written. I think she's a fantastic writer. So does this come directly from her, or is this three. Yeah.

Okay, so she hits you up, says, take a look at this. Florence is maybe already involved. Florence is already involved. I think she was the only one involved at the time. You know, when I've told this sort of anecdote before, but I was, I've sort of typecasted myself a little bit, and I thought she wanted me to play Charles, the brother, you know, just because I think the series of,

roles that I had done for the, you know, three, three years, it sort of felt more right. And so, but then she sort of, she explained, um, why she wanted me to play Adam. And, um, and I thought she, she's better at explaining this, but this sort of like masculine, feminine thing of like, how one presents as and very like sort of youngian, uh, explanation. And I just thought, and I was so game because, you know, it was, it was going to be a challenge. And I, I knew, you know, a lot of actors say that, but it really was. It was gratifying because of how difficult the role is. I mean, the role sort of spans 20-something years. You know, you age. It's a true family saga. He changes. It's epic. It's just like a real epic journey that you have to,

you know, the technical thing as an actor where you have to really measure out the arc, you know, because it's a slow arc, slow big arc. Are you shooting in sequence or are you? No. No, no. That too, you know, so you have to just kind of keep track of that. So is that, I mean, not say it's the main job, but it is a very key part of the algorithm, I would imagine. It's like in your script, like, knowing, okay, where am I, what happened right before, after, like, just really measuring. It is.

It is because, you know, when you get, you know, when you get to it on the day, it's sometimes it would be easier to sort of swing for the fences every scene, you know, and make every scene its own little movie. And you have to sort of make sure. you don't, you know, you can't sort of blow your wad on every, on every little thing. You can't hit a home run on every little thing. It's sometimes you've got a bun. Sometimes you have to hit a single, you know.

That's how it comes with age too. It's like knowing, like, because when you're a kid, when you're a young actor, you want to show off. You want to show everything you can do in every scene. No, yeah. And knowing like the right tool for the right job. Exactly. And that takes, that's like going to school and like these are the skills that you learn. I think, I think, you know, people have sort of inherent talent.

But this is where you can sort, you know, where I appreciate going like theater school. Because you know how to, you learn how to do this stuff. You know how to use your toolbox. Where are you at now with, I mean, I've seen all seven episodes. It's great. Have you watched this all? I have, yeah, but not in a while.

Okay, yeah. So you're able to watch it. You're able to kind of appreciate it because it's big. It's not just you. Obviously, there's an ensemble here. So you can kind of like take yourself out of it a little bit. Yeah, I've got, that's another thing as I've gotten older I've gotten better at. You know, I used to like, oh, I can't watch myself.

for you know and you know I still TV is funny in that way because you know movies are a little bit easier because you can like

go to the screening and celebrate it with people and we will you know for this we'll have a screening of premiere of like the first two episodes and I'll watch that

but TV I always found a little bit harder to watch yourself yeah because it's weird it's a little weird to do it by yourself because you're just like

by yourself and that's odd and then I also feel strange about like inviting people over to to watch it you know it's at least at a movie thing everyone can just go and whatever yeah so this is i would imagine it's a pretty extensive shoot just in terms of length of time this is shot and you shot this where in new zealand yeah yeah which you know it's just funny because it's such an american right novel and the landscape is so specific it's another character you know this the salinas and in california at the time but um the the landscape in

New Zealand for that, especially for the time period, was like pitch perfect, you know. By the way, I want to throw out another actor who I'm always impressed by. Yeah. Kieran Heinz. Oh my God. I love him. He's so good. He's one of these guys that like, people know, I guess by now, but he should get more props for the career he's had, what he, what he brings. Yeah, and he has gotten, you know, at least like actor, actor to actor stuff, you know, but he, I mean, I was looking forward to working with, I mean, this cast is pretty incredible. Yeah. But he's someone I've admired from a far. for a long time. So I was so, I was so excited to work with him.

All right, so let's backtrack. Yeah. This is your life for you, Christopher Abbott. Okay, so I mean... Are you gonna tell me what happened in my life? I'm gonna tell you what happened. So you were in a nurse Jackie episode. Oh yeah, that was my first, I think that was my first TV thing. Little Law & Order, that's a write of passage out of New York. Classic New York. Only one Law & Order credit? I mean, some guys have like six different Law & Order. No, speaking about blowing your wad, I think I did that for that Law & Order. I think I was a goth. Talk about a skeleton in the closet. I play

like some goth it's I was the one who the audience would think it was the killer the obvious you know I think whatever I think I was like choking of my girlfriend against the fence a chain link in goth makeup you know but I wasn't actually the killer

yeah it was um that was and I think well that was law and order criminal intent and I like to think I think the season I think they stopped doing that after either my episode or that season, they cut off criminal intent. That's the time of meeting. Did you see the goth performance? We need to talk. They were like, end this entire show. I think, yeah.

Wow, it takes a lot to destroy a long water. I blame it on me. Wow. Yeah. Dick Wolf has a grape with you. Yeah. More happy say confused coming up. From morning hockey with a cup of coffee to Timbits and road trips. Tim's and Canadian tire have always gone together. Now it's official. You can now earn Canadian entire money at Tim's. Link your Triangle Rewards and Tims Rewards accounts to earn twice with every Tim's run. Terms and conditions apply.

Visit timhordons.ca. slash triangle for details. Hear that? It's your money calling. It wants a promotion. Elevate your savings with the Scotia high interest savings account. Always earn high regular interest rates that grow the more you save and invest. Conditions apply.

Visit Scotiabank.com slash H-I-S-A to learn more. Scotia Bank. You're richer than you think. Martha Marcy May Marlene, great film. Yeah, that was my first like film film. That's a great one. And obviously girls, which is always going to be a big part of your career. At that point, like, I mean, joining that right from the start, was that disorienting to be, I mean, that became a cultural touchstone very quickly.

Yeah. How did you handle it in retrospect, kind of that, the fame, just being a part of the zeitgeist in that way? It was, it was strange. you know, because when you're shooting something, you're, this is always happens. You're not aware of how it's going to be received. And also that first season, I was doing my first, I'd done a lot of plays at that point,

but my first Broadway play. So I was doing, it was looking back on it, it was amazing because I'm like, you know, then I really wanted to work. Now as I get older, I'm like, I don't want to work anymore. But. You're really fucking up then now. Yeah.

Yeah, but what a thing, you know, to shoot that during the day and then to go do this, I was doing this playhouse of Blue Leeds at the time and then doing that at night. Like so for me, the experience of it lives in that, much of it lives in that sort of memory reflecting on it. It's so, that was cool. Like, you know, I was like really hustling. Like, I loved it. Did you notice people responding to differently, though? Like, once, like.

It came out? Yeah. A little bit. I mean, I, you know. I was living, I think I was living in Greenpoint at the time. So it's so, it was like very, it was site specific. You know what I mean? Yeah, I think, I think I know it.

But it wasn't a huge shift. It wasn't like I was getting, I didn't feel like I was getting like recognized everywhere on the street. And also, you know, I just sort of went about my life at the time. And, you know, I was doing, you know, I was doing weird things at that time. I was like, I worked at a, I don't know. You were still working. jobs like like yeah but not necessarily like yeah a little bit yeah like I worked at Italian ice my friends Italian ice thing in Rockaway and I was sort of doing it in a way

of uh while you're on girls that was maybe during the second season yeah why did you have to for money no I didn't well you know I wasn't it wasn't that much money at that time but no I wasn't I just wanted to I don't know I've had me I had many periods during my career where I sort of felt like I wanted to quit acting really yeah and I think and you know it was probably I was trying to get in touch

with like whatever working roots or manhood route you know it's like I need to do I'm not that working an Italian ice shop but particularly a manly job coal mining Italian icy stands

yeah yeah but like I was but I was you know I was a set carpenter on other movies at a certain point around like around that time I just I don't know I think um maybe that was like an early identity crisis of trying to like figure out you know am I just an actor do I want to only rely on it

you know there was so I was probably acting out at maybe like getting noticed for a big show like this made me sort of act out in certain ways yeah yeah did people like like agents and whatever understand the artistic decision at the time like where you have to show and that's a big yeah that that that's not what people do at that kind of time yeah and I know this got a lot of attention at the time, but like, did people in your orbit get it, get where you were at and were they supportive of that decision? Or was it a tough? Yeah. And it's like, I mean, it's so long ago now that, like, I even forget the series of events, but it wasn't, you know, I remember like there's articles and stuff about it that made it more dramatic than it actually was, which is always the

case. I mean, it really was, you know, it was, at least, I'll say at least on my end, I was always nervous to sign on to something for multiple seasons because whatever, my own fear of commitment generally. So, you know, I was a guest star for the first two seasons. And, you know, they wanted me to sign on, you know, for then, on the third season, for them to sign up for like a six year or whatever. And that just sort of scared me just because, you know, I liked working on it, but I get, you know, I get bored easily.

So I don't, I had never gone back to a show. Yeah. That was the first time I ever went back and did another, all the jobs I'd done up to that point. It's like I would do it and it's done. Right. I'd never gone back to something. So at a certain point, I was just like, I don't know,

I just want to do something else. Yeah. You must feel good about signing on for 10 X-Men movies now, about knowing that that's an expectation of you. It's not that many. It's not that many. But I did like, you know, it seemed now as getting older too,

you know, I am kind of looking forward to that. Stability kind of, yeah. Well, you know, I mean, the team is really good. You know, Jake Schreier, who's directing it, I'm very excited to work with him. And I have roots in X-Men, you know. I mean, I loved it when I was a kid. Really?

Loved it. Yeah, I loved the cartoon. I had comics, toys. You know, so there's something, you know, it's not just jumping into like a Marvel thing for the sake of it. I have some, I have some, childhood or adolescent stake. There is something, as you probably well know, there's a lot of like the love people

have for the fact that both you and Adam Driver somehow have ended up. That's very funny. I know. Have you discussed this yet? Like, have you talked out about it? No, we haven't. Yeah. No, of course I thought about that.

You know, I thought that was funny. But Jake, you know, that's Jake's fault. Yeah. Is Alex Carpowski playing Wolverine or do we have any others joining? I think that's it. That's it. I think that's it. Yeah.

But, you know, it's kind of happen eventually. Yeah, you got to meet. You got to cross past. But I didn't, I didn't even work with Adam on girls. Right. Like we didn't really have anything together. So I feel like we haven't worked together yet. One last thing on girls.

I mean, people do love the episode, obviously, you came back. Like, that's still revered as one of the great episodes of television, period. That must be satisfying for you that, like, if there was any kind of like, oh, he has a weird feelings about the show, at least you ended it with this kind of, like, beautiful. episode that people all kind of acknowledges. That is nice. Right? I think that is nice.

But again, my experience of these things is so different than the people that consume them. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, it was nice to sort of go back and, you know, just fuck around, you know, a little bit. But I don't, right. It's incredible, too, that people revere that episode, you know. Yeah. So James White has to be considered, I would imagine for you creatively and professionally, probably. kind of a game changer. Is that fair to say?

In a small way, yeah. I mean, we were talking before about the festival experience, how like it seems like something's going to like take over the world and maybe that's what this was. But the right people saw it, the bright people. Exactly. It's not a household movie by any means, but it was a movie that, you know, more than like what it did for me, it was, you know, at the time, you know, Josh Mon who directed it was, was a good friend of mine and Sean Durkin, who I, you know, and Antonio,

Campos produced it. So it was the first time where I felt a lot of freedom in getting to do what I wanted and felt very comfortable. I didn't feel like I was working for someone. And I think that was the first time I had just artistically sort of had that freedom and freedom to experiment and, you know, and really have some input in the movie. So for multiple reasons that, yeah, that movies was momentous. You know, I mean, and I think career-wise, it's sort of, if I had to look from the outside in, maybe, I think people maybe took me a little bit more seriously. I would imagine in subsequent jobs, the directors, the casting directors, saw that and said, get me that guy, or at least get him in the room. I think so, right? Yeah, yeah. Like, I don't know if, like, jumping ahead, like, Catch 22, like, I don't know if that was on

the casting directors or Clooney's radar, but, like. I don't think Clooney saw that, really? No, I auditioned for a catch-22. I just had a really, I think I just had a really good audition. Were you a good auditioner? You probably, hopefully don't have to do that too much lately, but. Yeah, I did, I liked, I was pretty, sometimes that was pretty good. I liked going into the room.

The challenge of it, the adrenaline, the what? I liked, well, again, to equate it to theater, it was like a little bit, you know, I liked going into the room and there was people there. Yeah. As, you know, I was never, I was never good at like Zoom. you know, or whatever, making my own tape at the time, you know. I was terrible at that. I hated that.

But I liked going. It was a little performance, you know, you go into a room and you do something. But that was just a great, you know, George Clooney and I just sort of, I think we, he just understood what I was working with. But that was great. I'll always remember that. Is there a great audition that didn't necessarily even pan out into a role that still sticks out of your mind in terms of like the experience of it was just great just to connect

with a filmmaker you admired or material and even if it didn't pan out that still jumps out to you yeah there um yeah there was one there's a few i'll tell a sincere one and then a sort of funnier one um i i auditioned speaking of a weird coincidence cluny but i remember i auditioned for that movie Money Monster that Jody Foster directed. And that was like a really... Oh, the Jack O'Connell role, probably. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And he's great.

But I just remember auditioning for that, and Jody, I didn't get it, but she wrote a really nice email to me. And I'll always remember that. And that experience was really good. But I remember I auditioned for this... I forgot where the production of this play Orphins by Lyle Kessler. Yep. Oh, gosh, that was one that ends up in...

Wait, was that shy? No, it wasn't that production. It was like an early, it was like some earlier one. I don't think it was in, I don't think the production was in New York. I forget. Anyway, but the point is, I'll always remember this. I thought it was really good in the audition. And I was really, really, I was going for it.

I was like, you know, I had this whole, I was auditioning in this big room or whatever. I was, I was doing crazy shit. And I remember getting the email. I was like, I think I nailed this one. I remember getting the email. I was like, I was anxious about the reaction. And of course, my brain, my agent said, they said he's, Chris was like fine or whatever, but he was not of this world.

Like not, like, but I first read it like he's out of this world. Nailed it again. And I was like, so I got it. And she was like, no, no, no. She's like, you're not. They're like, you're on a different, you're on a different, you're on a totally. And I was like, got it. Good note taken.

Yeah, yeah. I was like, he's out of this world. You've worked with, I love J.C. Chandorb, a fan of his. Yeah, he's a good buddy. Running to him a lot in New York, obviously. He's always around. He's always walking around. And you worked with him in the Most Violent Year.

Yeah. Does he owe you or do you owe him for Craven the Hunter for your appearance in that, in retrospect? He owes me big time. I feel like I can safely, you know, I'm just going to, I can shit talk myself. Sure, what happened? I didn't know what I was doing in that thing. I didn't understand what the power was, what the superpower was. I didn't know what was going on.

I was like, what? And I was like, so I take off my glasses and what happens and whatever? And like no one, I feel like no one really had a good answer. Can someone give me an answer? I don't know what I was wearing in that thing. I've sort of, I've sort of buried that deep in the air. Sorry to unearth it. But, I mean, again, the experience is I,

like Aaron, I love Aaron. Committed. Yeah, Alessandro and Oval is a good, good buddy of mine. Like, I like the people, I love working with these people. But, you know, that was a... It's a learning. It's a learning curve. But they're all great in the movie, and they're great in the movie.

I don't know what I'm doing in that thing. Did you see yourself in the movie? Like, did you watch the final product? And did it hit you, like, afterwards? Or in the moment, were you thinking that? In the moment. I was in the moment. I was like, I was like, I don't, I don't think this.

is going well. But, you know, I wanted to, J.C. asked me to do it, and I had never done a movie like that. I, I, I, like, sometimes I don't pick things for actor reasons. I was like, I want to go see how the wheels turn, how the gears turn on a project. Like, I've never done a, you know, superhero. I was like, I want to see how this works. Yeah. You know, it was interesting. Will X-Men be better than Craven the Hunter? Can you guarantee me that? I will guarantee you that. at least me, at least for my own, you know what I mean? Yeah. Okay, so a little bit on the future for you with X-Men, which, oh, I'm...

Sorry, JC. No, I feel like... He doesn't care. He doesn't care. I've seen him since. He's great. He wants, I think at some point I need to have the post-mortem on Craven because there's a lot to be told, I'm sure.

Oh, my God. Yeah. But, okay, so on the X-Men front, which I know, look, you haven't even read a script, so there's nothing to really say, I get it. Yeah, genuinely. I'm not being coy. I don't know what, yeah. All good.

So I'm not digging for plot stuff. I'm just curious, like, how this happened. Like, do you, is this just an audition? Is this? Yeah. Oh, sorry. No, that's all I got. Yeah, Jake Schreier.

I mean, I think he'd seen other, you know, I think he'd been a fan of mine. But I had to, no, I test, you know, audition. Or like, I sort of read something on Zoom first and then I had to go in and test for it. Camera test kind of thing. Yeah. Like a whole thing? A little bit. Just like a little bit of a.

vibe. And did you have a take on it? Because like obviously there have been two very notable interpretations and live action of this. And I would imagine you're not kind of actor that's going to want to be like, oh, let me do the same thing. No, exactly. I mean, yeah, look, but I also didn't have a script then either, you know, so, but I obviously know of X-Men. I've been a fan of X-Men. And, you know, we read from, I don't know if they were necessarily like dummy, dummy sides or scenes, but they were very human, you know what I mean? And, uh, I still don't know, you know, the fun part for me is the journey of figuring out how I'm going to do it. And I'm, it's a challenge.

I think I'm excited because that's also going to be a challenge. You know what I mean? Like a true acting challenge. And I had some ideas for the approach. This is going to, I don't want to go off on too much of a tangent. but I'll give you a fun little thing. I've been very interested lately in just broadly the idea of like consciousness.

You know what I mean? And I'm not saying I'm going to do the ultimate method acting here and try to be psychic by the time I do this movie. But I'm getting close, Josh. But I got to tell you something. I've had a few moments or things

I'm like, that's pretty good. You can read people's minds, you feel? No. I don't want to talk too much about it. Me, you brought it up. What do you, what do you, what do you, you, you're at one with the universe. What are you sensing beyond what I can do? All right.

Do you know what remote viewing is? No. This is going to make me seem like a crazy person. You opened up Pandora's box. I did open it up. Okay. I did. exercise. I'll leave it at that. Okay. But I didn't exercise where I was meant to a friend,

Drew, okay, I was doing this with a friend. And their relative was in a house in Long Island. And there was a picture in the house in Long Island. And I had to try to essentially try to see or guess what it was. Okay. Long story, very long story short. I didn't get it, but I did end up getting this very big painting that was in the room. And I had to draw something. And it matched pretty well.

And that friend got it framed for me. It was a pretty... Is this this recent? This is prior to getting the job? I shouldn't have even brought this up because it was... It's just going to take, for full context, it's going to take about 30 minutes. You know what I mean? You have demonstrated you got...

You kind of get... You get when I'm getting at. All right. Did you tell Jake this? Is this what got you the job? Look at that. It's all about crystals. Gosh, it's all about crystals.

You don't even know. Oh, my God. All right, I have to let you go very quickly. So here, we're going to end with the... Sadly, apparently, you have to run. Profoundly random questions. That's the tradition we end every happy second. Okay, great.

You ready? Dogs or cats. What a weird thing to end on? God damn it. Whatever. Dogs or cats. Dogs. All the way.

No question, no question, no hesitation. What do you collect? Ah. What do I collect? Not much. Okay. Some vinyl. Okay.

But not big. I'm not a, I like throwing out. Great. I'm a big, I like throwing garbage out. Great. You don't collect that much. You can get rid of this on your way out, garbage. What?

Get rid of what? There's a little garbage over there. Oh yeah? Favorite video game of all time. Ooh. Favorite video game. That's a good. Ooh, that's a good one.

You know, I played video games when I was a kid and I kind of started again, pandemic, obviously, you know. The more recent ones I played, I like the sport. I always like sports games. But Last of Us was great. One and two? I played both. They were both great.

Two, I think, it's hard to decide. It's a controversial subject. Two was great. Okay. God of War was really good. Those are like the most complicated games I can play. Otherwise, it's sports games. Oh man, but when I was a kid, Metal Gear Solid.

Yeah. That original, anyway, yeah. Would you rather have a mouthful of bees or one B in your butt? Dakota Johnson asked me that. I ask everybody that. One B in your, one, mouthful of bees or one B in your butt. You got this. Oh, God.

That's hard. I don't want a B in my butt. Then you're going to the mouthful. I'm sorry. I got a mouthful of bees. What's the wallpaper on your phone? Dog. Oh.

Yeah. Sleeping dog. Okay. Yeah. Last actor you were mistaken for? Anointly. Not actually, not annoyingly. It's great.

But it was just an age thing that I was like, what? Mandy Patinket. Wow. You were great in the Princess Brime. It wasn't I was mistaken for him, but someone was like, I wasn't mistaken for him, but someone was like, okay, Mandy Patinkinkin. I was like, now? I was like, oh, fuck. I was like, that's not good.

You know, I just had to hear someone that said they get mistaken. He looks great, but I'm just, he's older. I just had in here another actor who said they get mistaken for you. Kit Harrington came. Oh, yeah, that, that's. Has that happened to you the other way or no? It has, it has, you're right, that is a while ago. I think there was a period where, especially, I think we both had like the same amount of facial hair.

And I get it, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. You want to hear a funny little. I remember long, this is a while ago, I did a movie, I was doing this movie in Cleveland, and I was at dinner with some of the cast, and the waiter comes out and was like, I hope you enjoyed everything.

Our chef is, hey, my, the chef here's a really big fan. Can he come take a picture? And I was like, yeah, of course. And then he comes out, and he's really, you know, he's really nervous, and he's like, hey, sorry. I was like, no, what you mean? The food was great, blah, blah, blah. And he's like, he's like, oh, yeah, yeah.

He's like, he's like, I just don't want to, I was like, what do you? At this point, I'm like, it's fine, you know, it's fine. And he's like, and we're all taking a picture. I was doing this movie, Dan Stevens was also there. So he knows this story. And we're taking the picture and he's like, you know, he's like kind of shaking. And he's like, thank you so much. I was like, dude, it's fine.

He's like, thank you so much. And he's like, he's like, me and my wife, just, you know, we watch Game of Thrones all the time. And right before the picture was taken, I go, Oh, that's not me, man. And he's like, he's like, oh, yeah. And then with the breakoff, and I was like, do you still, you know what I mean? I was like, you know. We can delete the photo.

We can delete the photo. We already took it at that point. I would love to see that. Like, I wonder if, I wonder if the camera caught his utter, either just disappointment. The dying light in all your eyes. I was like, that's not me. And cheese. Yeah, yeah. And worst noted director has ever given you?

Worst knowledge directive I mean You know I was going to say like faster Yeah But sometimes I get what that means I can't think of one I'm sorry

You've been well directed This is a good sign I think so Yeah I've been pretty good Congratulations East of Eden Yeah We covered a lot in a short amount of time

We've packed it in But we'll have you back man I don't know what I said 60% was made sense Holy God All right I'm so tired I'm so happy you did this.

Thank you so much. But yeah, it's been a very, it's been a while. I'm happy to finally be here. Definitely. Congratulations in everything. Thank you. Get back to that kid of yours. Congratulations again on that friend, most importantly.

You've got your favorite blanket, a freshly poured drink, and a cold case burning a hole in your streaming queue. You're not just watching true crime. You're running the investigation from the comfort of your couch. Welcome to Murder She Watch. The podcast where we recap, dissect, and slightly overanalyze some of the podcast. some of the best and craziest true crime documentaries on our favorite streamers. Did the spouse do it?

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I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh.