Happy Sad Confused - Colin Farrell

Episode Date: March 26, 2019

How did Colin Farrell, the former notorious bad boy of the 2000s turn into the wholesome star of "Dumbo"? It's been a long strange for Colin and he opens up about it all with Josh on this episode of "Happy Sad Confused".    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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From this moment on, none of you are safe. New episodes every Wednesday, wherever you get your podcasts. Today on Happy Said Confused, Colin Farrell, on his cinematic adventures with Oliver Stone, Michael Mann, and now Tim Burton. Hey, guys, I'm Josh Harrowitz. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad Confused. Today's episode, first-time podcast guests, at least on Happy Sad Confused, Mr. Colin Farrell.

someone I wanted to have on the show for quite a while, so thrilled that Colin made the time on a very brief trip to New York, basically the GMA, me, and I think like one other thing in his 12 hours here. He squeezed us in. I chatted with him for a good 45 minutes in a random anonymous conference room. And it didn't matter, though. The surroundings were not the important part of it. The important part was his frankness and charm and wit. He is someone who's so talented as an actor, but also someone I always enjoy chatting with because he, you know, he's lived a life. He's certainly, and he's been very open about it. He sprung to fame in his early 20s, thanks to being plucked out of virtual obscurity by Joel Schumacher in the film Tiger Land. And then it was off to the races. He was just put into big Hollywood movie after big Hollywood movie, some good, some bad. But he was always someone to watch. always someone that was fascinating to kind of follow. And meanwhile, off screen, he was really, you know, he was dealing with stuff. He was dealing with addictions and the troubles of youth. And it took him a while to get his act together. And thankfully, he's on the other side of it now and can look back at it all with great humor and humility.

And that's all you can ask for from somebody to have a sense of humor about the bizarreness, the bizarre arc of a life. And certainly, Colin, was a delight to chat. with. His new film is Dumbo. It is the latest from Tim Burton. It is a super sweet movie. A kind of a, I wouldn't say a remake. It's almost like an embellishment. It's a continuation and a new interpretation of the classic Disney story features Danny DeVito and Michael Keaton and Ava Green. And I was really charmed by it. It's one of, I think, Tim Burton's best in recent years. And the production design is fantastic. It's very sweet. It recalls a lot of

his early work and reminded me at times of Edward Cisorhands even, and I mean that in the high, that's high compliments as far as I'm concerned. So yes, check out Dumbo this Friday when it's out in theaters. And I hope you guys enjoy this chat as much as I did. Colin is a, yeah, he's a special one. So anyway, there's a reason why I wanted him to have him on the show for so long and I'm happy it finally worked out. A note about the audio. It's not great. Here's the story, guys, just in brief. This has happened maybe once or twice in the history of the five years of Happy Second Fused. The recorder, for whatever reason, didn't record. But thank God, guys, I always have a backup. So there is a backup recording. It just won't sound as great

as the usual recordings do. So perfectly listenable. I don't think you'll notice a huge difference, but it's not up to my lofty standards. That being said, it's all. about the quality of the conversation, not the audio, as far as I'm concerned. What else to tell you about? I should mention in my MTV shenanigans, there have been some really fun interviews I've done that you can watch on MTV News's YouTube page, had an extended chat with Jordan Peel, the writer-director of us, and of course, get out. That is out there right now.

No spoilers in it, just a fun, smart conversation with one of our really smartest filmmakers is working today. Also just chatted with Juleleu Dreyfus, star of Veep yesterday. That's going to be going up on MTV News' YouTube page very soon. That was awesome to do. Someone that I have so much respect for, she's kind of a living icon. And Veep, I have to say, I've seen the first three episodes of the new season. It is so funny.

It is maybe my favorite show right now on TV. So look forward to that. And meanwhile, Comedy Central, After Hours chugging along, new episode coming out next week with a past podcast guest, someone familiar to Happy, Sad, Confused listeners. A new participant in the After Hour shenanigans, though. So I'm very excited about that. Major TV and soon-to-be movie star starring in a new After Hours. That's all the tease you get. It's coming very soon, though.

That's about it, guys. A lot coming up. A lot of travel for me coming up. Some stuff going on with Star Wars, maybe some Marvel stuff. A lot of things are cooking, guys. Anyway, today's event, Mr. Colin Farrow, remember to review, rate and subscribe to happy second views. Spread the good word and enjoy this chat with Colin.

How you doing, man? How's going? Oh, wow. We've just been comparing our... Yeah, but in a good way. I'm going to... Remember, I saw you one. at the Cinemicon craziness in Vegas.

That's always like, I go for four days, which is three days too long for Las Vegas. Yeah, for sure. Yes, that's on Monday. Then I go to Star Wars celebration, a Comic-Con devoted to all things Star Wars. Really? That would be fun. It will be fun. Did you see any new stuff? Nothing. No one sees anything.

You know Disney puts everything under walking. It's a miracle that we've seen Dumbo. Do you see it? I did. Oh, cool. Congratulations on it, man. Thanks, man. I feel like it's a good litmus test for whether you're alive inside.

If you're dead inside, then Dumbo's not for you. Yeah, just icy stare, cold stare. If you've got a kid that's in there, yeah. First of all, thanks for the time. As I was saying before, we started this official conversation. This is a quick trip to New York. We are talking before 9 a.m. This is unprecedented for happy second, please for my podcast.

It is for you. Me too, man. Are you a morning guy? No, not at all. I love night shoes. everyone else is bitching about night shoots and I love them but luckily are you on a different time

time zone right now like we're in what times I might be somewhere over the Azores I'm not quite sure what time zone we're on because we did we started the press tour in Los Angeles then we went to Tokyo then back to L.A. for two days then London Dublin

which isn't much of a jump of course and then here and then do you resent a little bit that the title guy is not carrying the load for this one it's on you to carry it nowhere to be found surprisingly what the fuck I know, so selfish.

Just takes the glory, has a film named after him, and then disappears. Is it, you know, in all seriousness, I did. I saw this last night, and I was really moved by it. It's so sweet. And we're roughly in the same age range. Like, I grew up with Tim Burton. I skipped school when I was 13 years old to see Batman on opening day. Nice.

I can say that now because I actually have a degree. It all worked out. But did he have a bit? residence for you growing up? Yeah, I mean, the first film of his I saw was Peewey's Big Adventure when I was, my brother showed me, I don't know what age I was, 10 or 11 or 12. And I had, even at that stage, I had that excitement

that cinema can offer up sometimes where you're taken out of wherever it is you find yourself in life and you're transported somewhere else, somewhere very particular and very other world. Even though Peewey's Big Adventure was set in the contemporary world, it was still stylistic to the, umth degree, you know, because of Tim's kind of visual flare.

And then everything after that, Beetlejuice, Edward Cisorhands. I mean, he gets such a great credit, Burton, for being such an extraordinary visual artist and creating these fantastical worlds. And look, I opened up talking about him by referencing the worlds that he creates. But I don't think people mention, they're affected by it, but I don't think they mention because it's not as stark, it's not as obvious, the degree of heart that he has as a filmmaker. Oh, yeah. There's always some character that's struggling with some deep loneliness, feeling like the outsider,

you know, very much a reflection of it. I think Tim's youth in Burbank he's spoken about himself, so I'm not letting any cat out of the bag, but did you ever see the picture of him online in his Halloween costume? I don't know if I have. Did you not? Is it amazing? I got it. Mine, you got it?

I'll show you this. It's extraordinary. When I saw it first, I I feel like he came out of the womb looking like Tim Burton. Like he, like, probably... It might have taken eight or nine years to look like the Burton that we know. But to arrive at this so early in life, which is, you can tell me

what it is now you'll know as soon as you as soon the second you see it okay what's that that's um that member for Christmas that's Jack Scowington yeah but that's that's his Halloween costume as a like a child when he's eight or nine and ten I don't know what age he is and he created a prototype for Jack Scotson's not so so since then he's been kind of I suppose I shouldn't speak for him but I'm gonna anyway he's been wrestling with you know what it is to to be included or excluded or belong or that sense of not belonging that we all struggle with sometimes as human beings.

And that's all over his work. And Dumbo's the quintessential outsider, somebody who's judged so harshly because of some physical anomaly they're born with that is deemed too different to be allowed into the social status. It did remind me to a surprising degree in the best possible way of Edwards-Zerhands. I was watching it.

I was kind of just like having flashbacks to how I felt watching that one. And you mentioned the emotion. I always think that, Edward, I was so moved by the end of that film. But Edward was so moving, yeah. Yeah, it was so moving. Yeah, my kids love that now. Yeah.

So, I mean, he's, you know, he's just, he's cross-generational, really. I think his work will never go out of fashion as long as there's loneliness in the human condition. Sadly, that means it will. Yeah, exactly. What's the quintessential I'm on a Tim Burton set moment for this one? I mean, Jesus, look, the first air arrived on the set. We were doing the first scene that I appear in in the film, which is Holt getting off the train, arriving back, having fought in the first war.

So I walked into his studio stage, and there's, you know, You know, a full steam train with steam bellowing from its chimney and people in period costume jumping on and off the train with greens. So that was even just that. Oh, I've joined the circus officially. Yeah, totally. Yeah, yeah, yeah. As I was Orson Well said, I get to play with the biggest train set in the world now. Yeah.

And I just, I loved watching Tim on set. I just loved, he's so playful and frenetic. He's like a Tasmanian dust devil, you know? You really would get a creak in your neck trying to keep up with him. he's left right back forth he's all over the place but but detailed and and just really engaged in the whole process every day every day going to work on this was like going to a circus albeit a static one not a traveling one but because we shot in the one location there wasn't a single frame that was shot outside it was all inside which was kind of magic to see the film then and see

how you know 40 or 50% of it is is told under you know an afternoon sky or a sunset oh my god beautiful sunsets and obviously that was all down to the wizardry of those who work after the fact after the shoot, you know, and what they did with Dumbo, the actual creature, how they brought that to life? Which, imagine the pressure. Imagine that pressure. If that doesn't work. Seriously. Yeah, yeah. We had a whole film there. The only thing that was missing was the central character. The banged baby elephant.

So I just thought what they did was extraordinary with that. It's funny. Like, I don't know about you, but for me, the people that really get me excited and kind of like pinch me moments on my side of the job is like talking to people like Tim, people that I grew up with.

Like the fact that Tim Byrne knows my name at this point is like the greatest like humble brag I'm happy to like throw around because it just it just breaks my brain too for you is it similar to kind of like work with those folks that that really yeah made an impression between 10 and 15 or whatever the only time I worked with alpuccino I was 20 maybe 24 I don't think it was 20 yeah 23 or 24 and I arrived on a set and you know petino was getting miced up and we did our first scene together and it really was a pinch me moment because I had grown up with all his films, you know, Serpco and Dog Day and Anno, Godfathers, and Anon.

But I still get it. I'm not, I don't feel, I don't feel jaded by it. It's not that I work not to be jaded or stay fresh or stay grateful. All that stuff may be there in shades. But it's just, I just have some, there's a kid inside me that will not be quietened completely and nor should he be. And he's still very alive. And when I go onto a set like this one and I see the,

extraordinary elaborate worlds that are created because as I said there was so much CGI with the flying elephant and skylines and such but all the stuff that was around us all the tents all the grass all the trapeze artists the contortionists from Mongolia that was all there I mean you'd walk it'll be 10 o'clock in the morning and you'd leave the the outside where all the trailers were parked where all the actors and stunts would live and you'd go into this big warehouse and it was just extraordinary what you'd see yeah it was extraordinary so and and again working with Tim was a bit of a pinch me moment for me as

I'm surprised there was a little bit more nudity from Danny Davido than you in this one. More flesh from Danny. Well, if you watch, you know, it's always sunny in Philadelphia. That's great. And he does like to drop trail every now and then. I don't know if he likes it.

I think he does. He's been a repeat defender. Crawling out of couches, leather couch. Fully vasolined. Exactly. Always. That's his style. Dan brought his own amniotic mood.

Why? Well, I'll just roll the camera and we'll show you. Exactly. Okay, since we've got some time, Let's go down memory lane. It's early. Maybe I'll get some tears flowing before 9 a.m. This is catharsis.

Let's do it. People feel him on the New Jersey Turnpike. Exactly. So growing up in Dublin, family of more athletes than... Yeah, yeah, my father and his brother played professional football, otherwise known as soccer. They played for years, yeah. My daughter earned his living until he was about 25 to 6. I think he had shoddy knees that didn't quite do...

go the distance. But that was it, yeah, and I thought that was my life until I was about 14, was playing football, playing soccer, son up till sundown, every day. I thought that's what I was possibly going to do with my life, but it wasn't good enough. Now, was, when you started to exhibit interest in this profession, in the arts, what was the reaction from the family? Was there an adjustment period in terms of... No, there was no real... My dad wasn't too impressed, as is often the story when it comes to exploring a livelihood in the art. my dad wasn't impressed very very working class

stock he was a hard worker all his life and he had a business that I'm sure he kind of fancied I would go into so he wasn't too impressed but then the first paycheck came in and he was alright with it

was acting in a way you think like your first form of rebelling or was rebelling no not really but rebelling was just rebelling was drinking and smoking and all the other stuff that you get to you know force the hand of your education with um no but but it was it was the first thing that maybe perhaps that I felt was entirely mine you know when you're in a family of

course you're sharing things you're sharing a home you're sharing meals you're sharing philosophies you're sharing burdens and laughs traumas all the above and this was the first thing that I felt was completely my doing or my creation or my realm that I could inhabit and it was it was my thing and nobody else was really part of it Which is, I'm glad to say, has changed through the years. And now, of course, family, we travel together sometimes and they come and visit or if we're on the road doing promotional tours like this, I might have some family with me, etc. But at that time, yeah, it was, and it was also, I think it was an opportunity to, like many young boys, I grew up in a house where emotions and feelings and feeling and the expressing of feelings and emotions wasn't really, you know, the done thing or wasn't really something to be favored. So when I went and did some acting class and some workshops when I was 16 or 17 in Dublin,

it allowed me to have a kind of an emotional language that I hadn't had the opportunity in school, trying to be a guy and toughen up. Wait, you guys want to hear about my feelings? You want me to access that stuff? Yeah, I mean, you used to live, you say, you know, emotions are weakness, and it's no small irony that I make my living expressing and exploring my own emotions and whatever intellect I have. So it was the first time, yeah, I remember feeling, wow, this is incredibly liberating.

It's incredibly liberating. Do you remember a shift in terms of taste in film and actors? You talk about Pacino, but growing up, and I've had this kind of conversation with a lot of people where, you know, at first it's, you know, I grew up with like Spielberg and, you know, all the Star Wars and all that kind of stuff. And then at a certain point you pop in the double cassette of the Godfather and you're like, what is this?

Yeah, the sea change for me, sea change film for me was Paris, Texas. Oh, okay. That was my way of course, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was my wake-up call. It was just the first time. that I had been removed from the world of entertainment of this Spielbergian emblem world of the close encounters in E.T. and Indiana Jones are back to the futures, you know, all those classic films that I now share with my kids. It was the first time I got

exposed to a heavier affair that was dealing with the existential crises of being a human being and living with a broken heart and loneliness and isolation and fracture and all those things. So that was the Paris, Texas was like just when I saw that film, I was so moved and I felt that there was, even though I was only 16, 17, I felt like it spoke to me loudly and clearly as to certain questions and difficulties and struggles that I felt inside. And what was the, as a 16, 17-year-old,

was, did you already have kind of Hollywood and the United States and your sights in terms of, no, no, no, I didn't even, I didn't even, how did it happen? So I did a class, I did an acting workshop when I was, I think, 16, and I loved it. And that lasted, maybe there was a ten, week course or something like that. And then I was still in high school at that stage and then

I got thrown out of high school and didn't know what I was going to do in my life. I did bits and pieces, worked as a painter. I worked as a country and Western line dancing instructor. Sure. As one does. Yeah, yeah, yeah, in Ireland, in the, you know, early 90s. Were you good at that? Was that a... It was all right. It was handy enough. It's not, you know, it's not cure up ballet. So I was handy enough. We had a coach flew in from Texas to put us through our paces and then he had a bunch of Irish traveling in a minivan around the country, little pubs and, you know, wearing headsets and thinking we were, you know, the Madonna's version of, you know, is the skill list on the CV still, just in case?

Somewhere there, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, way, way below horse riding and swimming, which I can't do, but it's even below that. So, I went to Australia when I was 17 to live for a year, and that was the first time that I fell in with a group of artists who were quite extraordinary and used to, you know, drink vodka and really thick black coffee and smoke bongs and talk about Tarkovsky and Dostoevsky and all these skis that I had no idea who they were and they were kind of a they were kind of very prominent part of whatever learning curve I've experienced as an actor a man and and that was the first time I got to work on a piece of text with those guys I did a play in

Australia by the Kelly Ray Kelly and Ned Kelly and the Bush Rangers and I played Steve Hart and that was the first time as I said so it was the first time you know I done workshops before that but I was with a bunch of actors I was paid a couple of hundred dollars a week and we were working on a text and rehearsing and we put the show up and it was brown trousers time I was so nervous but it was extraordinary just being with these people and exchanging thoughts and ideas and feelings and applying ourselves to this text and so when I got home to Dublin after my year in Australia I was 18 I went to theater school full-time

I decided to give it a go but I wasn't thinking Hollywood I wasn't thinking America I was just too nervous and too kind of comprehensively dealing with the day-to-day business of working on monologues and text. Were you going up for the kinds of parts that you would end up getting before Tiger Island comes around?

Tiger Land, of course, is the Joel Schumacher film, which really... The first American film, which was... Yeah, it was crazy after that. No, I had done... I had done a play. I had done a TV show in Ireland called Bali Cass Angel, which

afforded me the opportunity not to go back. I'm good at not finishing things, apparently, except for films, because it'd be hard to... That wouldn't work, yeah. Where's Colin? Yeah, he's... He's decided to leave after a second act. It would be okay without me.

I did two years on that, and the reason I left theaters ago, I didn't go back for the second year, and it was a full-time course. I had a great first year was I did an audition that summer, and I got offered this role in Baddy Gis Angel, and I thought, okay, so I'm here to learn how to approach character, to, you know, take a script apart and find relevance for me as an actor in these roles, but basically ultimately to get work as an actor,

to learn how to work as an actor. And so I got offered this opportunity to do that. And I thought, well, I won't go back for the second year. So I did two years on this TV show, which was amazing training. Got to work with incredible Irish actors like Tony Doyle and Bertie Sweeney. And then I did a play in London and then a small part in a film in Dublin based on the play. There was an actor in London who came to see me an American actor who came to see me in the play. And he was doing a film in Dublin and he spoke to the director.

I met the director and I got cast in that film. wasn't a very good film at all, but it was enough to get me an American agent. Right. And then based on that, I ended up sending a tape to Joel Schumacher, who directed Tideland. And I remember Joel saying, look, you know, we don't, something along the lines, we don't love you enough to fly you over to Los Angeles, but if you happen to be in town, it'd be good for you to read in person. So, of course, I jumped on the first plane and flew over.

And so, yeah, anytime I like to say I wasn't that ambitious as a kid is obviously bullshit because I got on the plane. Yeah. I got on the plane I headed west. And I've always just basically pursued the opportunities that were presenting. to me, you know, which is why at this stage, I think I'd like to get more involved. I want to direct at some stage, you know, comes a time where just iterating, albeit as much as you try to own them, the words of others, kind of almost isn't enough, you know, if you see

how all-encompassing directing is, and writing is beautiful as well, is incredibly therapeutic. But anyway, yeah, that was Tigeland, was a huge, huge. An amazing film in a number of respects. I mean, it makes your career, despite actually not being seen by, it didn't, like, make money. It wasn't a huge thing. The industry saw it. The industry, the right people saw us. And I had heard that when Joel was cutting it together in Tygland. Look, like, it was a glorified

audition video for you. Who was your calling? Yeah, really expensive. Yeah, $10 million. Didn't make the studio any money, but it made your career. Yeah, show real. 10 million dollars show real. But Joe was very open in the editing room

when he was cutting that together and there was directors I heard of that were going in to have a look because they had heard about this Irish kid who was in it who was supposedly decent and And it's a business, like most major, you know, at the top end of most businesses, there is an element of fear. Fear. Fear compels people and fear breeds competition and all that kind of thing. Well, it's no different and maybe more so in Hollywood. So I think I capitalized on the fear of a lot of people that were like, well, we don't want to miss them.

So someone throw a lot of money out of when I earned so much money in the first five years. You know, I really did. It was insane. I mean, I went from $30,000 in my first film to $2.5 million in my third, and I was 23. I mean, it was just madness. You in particular, I feel like, when I look back at what happened there, and I think of someone like McConaughey that Schumacher similarly kind of helped with a time to kill, you stand for like that time when you could make someone's career and really give them some huge, exciting opportunities and go from zero to 60. Suddenly you're starting with Pacino and Bruce Willis and Tom Cruise, and it's in Minority Report, of course. And, like, so at that point, are you just rotting the wave?

Do you feel like you're in control of your own destiny? No, not in control. I mean, I liked to, I think I liked to present the appearance that I was in some version of control and the way, of course, that I could do that because there's no way to control the machine that's as big as the machine that was behind me, and I include any element of interest expressed by a studio. Like, there was a lot of energy that I capitalized on in my career initially, of course. But I think the way I tried to present the idea of control was to pretend that I didn't care

about any of it. Not that I knew I was pretending. I was just like, it all means nothing and this and that and the other. And it was just a lot. Look, it was great and it was massive good fortune, but it was a lot. And I was still very young in my journey as an actor as well.

As I said, I had only done a workshop when I was 16. I had just done one play as much as I was turned on by it with a bunch of actors in Australia when I was 18. And then I came back and I did one year in theatre school, two years on a television show, one play, small part in a terrible film and then all of a sudden I did this one thing in America and it was off to the races.

So it was a lot. I still was figuring out what my relationship was to acting and how much I liked it and all of a sudden my passion for it I suppose was kind of was cut into by how I responded or how I was dealing with the amount of enormous fame that came seemingly

overnight. So I'm curious like is there imposter syndrome then where like you're like I'm getting these opportunities and in your heart of hearts you're like I'm not ready for I shouldn't be getting this. Totally, totally, totally. And there might be still shavings of that still exists. Anyone worth their salt, I hopefully doesn't think they actually deserve to be there.

No, of course, because we don't. There's so much chance, you know, there's so much chance. There is no answer to why me and not that person, because it's not just, look, there's actors that are on a stage in small towns in Bulgaria now that are more than able, if not better at doing what I do than I am. And so, you know, there's no rhyme or reason. There's just so much chance and you use whatever opportunity comes your way and you work as hard as you can.

but there was, yeah, imposter syndrome or a little bit of guilt as well, you know, that all this stuff was coming and I didn't understand it and it was just so, it was so much, so quick. I mean, you've obviously been always remarkably candid, and, like, I feel like you spent especially the last, like, six or seven years apologizing for your first 10 years on your career.

Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Because, look, you were also, you talk about kind of growing as an actor, you were kind of figuring out who you were as a human being. You were, you know, there was a bit of a rest of development, safe to say, right? Yeah.

were you able to compartmentalize like you were you know dealing with stuff offset and kind of addictions and that kind of thing were you able to actually be the professional you needed to be on set I mean I was yeah too I really was and that was that didn't do me any favors you know it did many productions a favor because it meant that my the way I was living offset didn't bleed on to I mean I don't know what the performances would have been like if I was sober I don't know if they'd be better or worse I never know and I don't really care it's kind of irrelevant but I certainly I had an engine you know and I was yo I was 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, before I got sober.

And I had an engine. I could go out, honestly, until 5 o'clock in the morning, get an hour and a half sleep, and then put in a 14 hour a day where I wouldn't miss a beat, wouldn't miss a mark, wouldn't drop a line, wouldn't. I was very professional, which I know is ridiculous to say. But, you know, I certainly had the appearance of that. So I got away with murder for years.

Did you know, did you intellectualize, like at some point this is going to run out? Like, I'm not immortal, or were you, or every 25-year-old does think you're, No, like any decent addict you don't think, you know, in rational terms like that, not at all. No, but you're just, you know, you're, I suppose, in any kind of struggle with addiction and in any livelihood that one is involved in while they deal with addiction, I suppose you're constantly, you're constantly trying to prop yourself up, you're constantly behind yourself,

you're living in a, you're living in a state of not trying to make mistakes. Right. Which is kind of a negative. Mitigate failure and, of course, all that stuff. So that's not, you know, that does not scream of the opportunity to have expanse of freedom within your artistic endeavor, you know what I mean? Do you remember times where, like, did any actors or filmmakers, like, pull you aside and kind of redo the right act? No, no, not at all. No, because as I said, on set, you were doing your thing, you were.

I was doing my thing, and I was, you know, I was doing a decent enough job. Never nearly fired from a gig, you were always. No, no, there was one, there was, I mean, there was a couple of hair, don't get me wrong, it was a couple of hairy days. There was one line of minority report. But I asked them not to, I asked them, you know, with a great degree of arrogance, would they not work me the day after my birthday on my idea? Please don't have me working on June 1st because my birthday's May 31st. And, you know, I thought a hundred million dollar film would at least listen to that request.

I mean, possibly, you know, conceive of honoring it. But Stephen, what they did. I worked, I think it was June 1st. And, yeah, it was a rough night. I didn't get any sleep. And that was one time where the line was, I'm sure you've all grasped. the fundamental paradox of pre-crime methodology. And I only know it now still, you know, 16 years later

because it should be on my tombstone because it caused so much panic and anxiety. My sister was on the set that day and she had to leave the set. I had in 36 takes. And it was terror disaster. So look, there was days where it was a little bit hairy, but, you know, by and large, no.

Right. Okay, so it's funny, minority port always sticks out of me. That's such a great. I love your performance in that. I loved it. It just came at such a perfect time. in terms of you, kind of, it's a fun role, because you kind of get to give, to Cruise some shit.

Tom had any fear around my rising star or any of that nonsense. I'm truly not saying that, but there was a kind of a mirroring of, you know, this cocky little upstart in life, and he was more established in his career, and that's exactly what was happening in the film. You know, this guy, Danny Whitworth,

who was trying to supplant himself into Tom Cruise's career, Anderton's career. So it was clever to casting. Jumping around. We talked a little bit about the recruit, which is obviously a great opportunity to work with Pacino. That's a pinch me moment.

Your one contribution to the superhero genre, Daredevil. Yeah, yeah. You got in a little too early, I feel like, in that one. Too early, yeah. It wasn't the Marvel that we've all grown to love and reaped the massive award from being a part of it. You never got bad notices for that. You actually got good notices for Daredevil, as I recall.

Yeah. Should I be surprised that you haven't kind of re-entered the DC Marvel universe? Have they talked to you about that stuff? No, I don't think so. I wouldn't be surprised if I was you. I wouldn't know what it is to be. I'm not surprised myself.

I don't, like I don't have any, I don't want for much, Josh. Do you know what I mean? You know, the work has been good to me and for me for years. And I feel, I truly feel more connected to it now than I ever have. It's this strange paradox that somehow when you don't identify your worth with something as much as maybe you once did, then you're free to enjoy it to a greater degree. Well, part of it is when I was on the, as I'm on the outside looking in and I sort of look at the whole body of work, especially in recent years, is like, there must be something freeing about not chasing a certain kind of ideal where like, you know, you've been the leading man and you can be the leading man, but it seems like you're just as content to be the supporting guy and you've relished those opportunities. Yeah, totally. I mean, if there wasn't, you know, certain responsibilities and stuff, I mean, I'd be okay doing it.

one or two, five-million dollar budget films. I mean, they're the ones that speak to me loudest and clearest, of course, are the ones that are more intimate, whether it's the Imbruges or the lobsters or Andeem, which nobody saw, which I'm glad I did because I got my youngest son out of. But yeah, no, I'm glad that chapter, that first seven-year chapter is done. Because it was, as I said, not that I'm in control. There are too many factors that are related to my quote-unquote career now that I don't feel in control of it totally. but back then, the ship was bigger, it was faster,

it took a longer time to write it, to turn direction, the momentum was huge, so I'm glad that it's different these days. Part of me wants to just start a podcast series with you discussing two films in particular, Alexander and Miami Vice. I feel like there could be like a 10-hour mini-series on each of those. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, they were both very, very elaborate, very dramatic,

slash traumatic, exciting adventures and they both films took six months to shoot both films had two or three months four months of pretty intense prep yeah both films weren't received in the way that people that were involved in them hoped they'd be received but they both yeah they were they were great parts of my my you know learning curve again so um i've again since we're in same age group i assume oliver meant a lot to you growing up as you i remember seeing jfk jfk blue my brains yeah it's still a really pleasing watch i don't care how factually you know vs it may It's just as like a dramatic thriller.

It's such a beating watch. John Candy. John Candy. John Candy with those close-ups with a cigarette and it's just so tasty. That like 20-minute monologue by Donald Sutherland in the middle of the film. It's just... And Costner is a fantastic actor. Absolutely.

It's a fantastic actor. I watched Field of Dreams recently. When was that time you watched that? I've watched it many times because that one wrecks me. It's really beautiful. Oh my God. Kind of a perfect movie. Bernard Lancaster, yeah.

So Oliver... Oliver, I had this, yeah, and Platoon was. a big one for me you know which was why when Tigerland came around and Tigerland obviously never makes it across the ocean to Vietnam it was set around the time right troops were beginning to be withdrawn the time was time was changing here there's no support in America rightfully enough and but I was kind of I wasn't obsessed by that period in American history but that war was kind of you know there's kind of a cinematic war that you grow up with yeah

that was the war that I grew up with was the Vietnam War so yeah I'd Oliver was huge to me. I mean, I feel like Alexander is one of those examples of what happens when you give, and I made this in the best possibly, like a madman. He's kind of a crazy man, crazy genius, $100 million to make the passion project that he's had since he's a teenager. And they're all mad, by the way. Peter Weir is mad in the most dignified and classical way.

He's like a very mild, tempered professor, but he's just, his attention to detail is insane. Terence Malick, Tim Berth. And, you know, Oliver has a, Oliver has a kind of passion to him and a kind of an animalism to him. He's a provocateur. He's like, in both the product. You can see by the work that he's doing now, you know, the documentarian work he's doing now and the people that he's interviewing around the world. And as much as he may be limited in how hard he can hit people like Putin, you know, I have to take my head off to him. He's asking questions and he's put in the camera on places that the Western world wouldn't be exposed to if it weren't for him.

So to work with him on this was extraordinary. But, you know, he had a bunch of actors as well that were, we were all in our own little way. Interesting journeys at the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Val Kilmer's a little left of center? What? You know, Angelina, Jared Rosario,

and then cast a bunch of actors to play the Generals from Dublin from various parts, Ireland, Carrie, and Cork. It was a shit show. It was wonderful, and it was a very old-fashioned way of making huge epic films. You know, David Lean said that film production is the last great circus. and it was very much, you know, we started in North Africa. We shot there for, we were there for three or four months, and then we moved to Pinewood in London,

and then we went to Thailand, and we finished up two months in Thailand, and it was incredible. But the film wasn't what we'd hoped it would be, but the experience was just enormous. I would imagine. Yeah, one of my off-sided anecdotes I bring up on the podcast all the time is one of my favorite flights I've ever been on, is when I happen to sit next to Oliver on a flight to L.A.,

and we ended up watching the Gary Marshall film New Year's Eve together. Fantastic. That's brilliant. The one that got away for Oliver, of course. He had so many questions about it. Who's that? Who's that? I bet you that was really confusing for him.

I swear to God. He was running down notes like, who is Leah Michelle? More than any didactic, that would be, yeah, that would. Did he take his not pad out of his part? Oh, yeah. He, uh, yeah, there's a lot to say.

He just, you think so much, and he's such a fluid thing here. It's being called out of that other. It's astonishing and impressing man. My sense from hearing you talk about Miami, I says it's probably not a pleasant watch for you to see that film. now like because I honestly could I I've said this before kind of you know

joking but you know half and just full of ours but I honestly could only remember about a third of it I really I mean that was when when we were shooting Miami Vice was when I was kind of getting close to being done with just personally living in particular way that I was and I was I was pretty

sick just garden variety you know alcoholic and drug addict at the time and certainly my pursuit of oblivion had you know taking the lead over my pursuit of any artistic integrity or any any desire to tell stories that were of worth which is not to say i didn't i ever stopped caring about the work that's really not true but i just didn't i had to really care about anything in engaging uncluttered way

well it must have been a particular challenge i mean you're dealing with all that stuff and then you're dealing with like the most meticulous human being on the planet michael man who does not suffer fools no he doesn't and look i got on decently with michael and we had our run-ins and stuff and when I see him socially now he's the he's the loveliest man of all the time in the world from when I cross paths through the years but at the time there was a degree of detail and there was a degree that that did feel and at times constricting you know there was a little it's a film that from talking to you know fans of film cinefiles or are just Joe blogs it is it has garnered in the last

few years a favor that it didn't have when it came out yeah people have come back and found it and thought that it wasn't as bad as maybe the initially we had to do it but but there was there was a certain life that I shared with Jamie which is a very grandiose way of saying we got on well and we had a laugh off camera and what I never thought it should have been a buddy movie and I thought it should have and it did try to honor in a contemporary way the tone of the original series I thought there could have been a little bit more light between the two of us yeah that was one of my creatively that was just one of my great

frustrations was that Jamie and I again not that it should have been high fives and It was never going to be a lethal weapon. It wasn't designed to be lethal weapon, which is brilliant. But we could have got a little bit more of what we were doing off camera into the characters and a little bit more of the history that way. But I also understood what Michael was going for, which was the unspoken sense of trust and a deep familiarity that transcends language, our affection demonstrated between two men, you know, who really had each other's backs.

But it was a tough gig. It was a tough gig. Did you find clarity in your personal life informed your work immediately, at least sort of when you kind of like got a little bit more on the straight and narrow. I just felt, do you know, the most practical difference that I noticed was how limiting the way I had worked was. I would have, you know, I would desperately try to understand what a particular scene was about and what the purpose of the scene was and what my job was within a scene, which is fair enough. And I would pursue that one thought rather than what I noticed when I got a little bit on the straight and now. when I was less cluttered less fearful I don't know if I was less fearful but I was

certainly less cluttered I was you know less tired I was I was just more open and more available right what I found was that I could I could arrive at what my sense of understanding was into the into the life of a character and I could take that and then I could do the scene three or four not diametrically opposed ways but three or four different ways. I could modulate. I could have a freedom and play within a scene

and even though, and what you're doing in that case, of course, those you're obviously trusting the director because they get to really, really shape your performance. Right, modulate you and give me 10% more here. Honestly, they really have as much,

if not more of an influence of how your character is ultimately represented in a film than you do. But I found that freedom and I found that very liberating and I found that very satisfying as well that I didn't just pursue one idea, take after take, try and get that one thing,

which is both ineffable and unattainable, I would play within the scene knowing that there was no right or no wrong, there were just different varieties and different modulations that I was given a director. It is interesting to see the range of filmmakers that you've worked with

and seemingly enjoyed working with in your career. You love Malik, but he couldn't be more different, I would think, than Martin McDonough. Yeah, and Martin and Terry have a good friendship as well. Oh, really? Yeah, because Martin was a huge fan of. I think Badlands is a really important film for him as it is for so many of us.

Yeah, I've loved, look, I've never been able to answer with any degree of honesty or certainty the question, how do you like to work? Do you like to rehearse or not rehearse? That question right there, do you like to rehearse or not rehearse? I swear to God, man. Depends? You can put me in a room, you know, give me room service every day for a week, I still wouldn't be able to come up with an answer. I like to go off the director. I really do.

And it's not because I, yeah, I will, you know, there's been times where I've questioned, should I have a particular way to work after doing this for 20 years? shouldn't I be more certain or exercise any kind of degree of strength that might be permitted because of the body of work that I've done and it's like no I just love I love going to work and seeing what kind of environment and what dynamic directors like to create and then not losing myself in that but totally applying whatever it is I do or whatever as I feel to the structure that is presented by them so Martin McDonough you rehearse in a black box room for three weeks before you go on to the set Jorgas Lanthamos, you know, not at all. We played a couple of little kind of theater school games, you know, back to back, and with Nicole, and now you face that corner, you face that corner, and now shout your lines at each other. We did that for basically on a Thursday, and that was rehearsal.

When Nicole's like, I've done this with the horse venture, I got this. I think I know how to do this. No, she's fairly, Nicole's fairly unflappable. I love that performance. I love killing him sacred year, but I also love, I mean, the lobster, it must be so pleasing for you to watch. I mean this sounds this sounds a little loaded

but like to watch yourself in that film it's like you're playing you look more like me than you look like you in that film it is a... Well you should say that Josh there was a picture of you in my truth

The truth reveal No I look it was I mean that whole film I was sure I was never going to work again I really was I remember saying to my sister I am this is it I am going to be this is the dullest

most boring because you know as actors we often are as you know I want to do stuff. Yeah, as human beings, we think if we're not doing something, if we're not being active, if we're not moving, if we're not expressing our thoughts. If we're not moving, then we're not doing something. If we're not expressing our thoughts, then we don't have opinions.

And so it's very much the same as an actor. You are giving carp launch. It's called drama for a reason, and you feel the burden of that. You feel if you're not doing something, if you're not emoting. But sure, the audience are already thinking, feeling sentient human beings, and sometimes they just want to reflect, project their emotions upon what they're seeing on the screen. So the lobster was the perfect example of that. I did so little.

um but it was fairly specific it was fairly uniform i have to say but there was no yeah i was sure i wasn't going to work out to that film seeing the films josh never there's twice in my life i can remember seeing uh films that i was in that they my presence didn't totally ruin the experience and that was the new world because it was so aesthetically just jaw-droppingly beautiful and uh dumbel because of the similar reason you know albeit one is artifice and one is the rawness of nature don't being the artifice, dungo being, you know, as I say, the sets were real, but there was so much kind of that went in after the fact, and it was so elaborate and so

manufactured by the human imagination and the human touch in relation to the craftsmen that created the sets. New World was the other thing, was just catching nature on the fly. It was Terry with a camera on his shoulder most of the time. Oh, God, was that an Osprey? And if he'd go into the distance while you were halfway through a line and it wasn't insulting because it was so pure. So those are the two films because they're so kind of

total and the beauty of their aesthetic that I could kind of nearly almost, perhaps, a small bit. And more qualifiers? Enjoy. Okay. I really enjoyed you in Fantastic Beasts. I thought it was an exceptional performance. I loved you in Ezra in that film.

I have a great fondness for Ezra, who is a wild man in the best possible way. I'm just curious what was it like to work with Ezra and be around. Ezra's, like, crazy life force that you remind you a little bit of your own. Yeah, a little bit. I mean, as it was a lot more refined, his life force was a lot more refined, then it felt less scatological than mine work back in the day, perhaps. Must be cushions?

What are we saying? No, he just, you know, it was just less of a shit show, I suppose. It's a literal translation for radio. He was actually keeping it together. Yeah, no, he was, he's an extraordinary man. He's incredibly bright and talented, and his spirit is just so fluid and, and buoyant and, and rich. I feel I loved working with them I loved that relationship exploring that

relationship and there was no you know I heard after the fact that some people were eluding some homoerotic underpinnings between he and I that was never referred to they as a pure example of what the audience brings to the table but there certainly wasn't an emotional manipulation going on and the the sensual collateral of touch right the whispered word was used heavily by Graves and he could see that this child was fractured and he just stepped into the chasm and did what he needed to do to meet his ends.

But I loved it, it was great fun. It was great fun to be part of that canon. Because again, no matter how long I'm acting, I can never act longer than I've been a fan of films. So that's first and foremost, I love films. I go to the cinema all the time. I adore them. They're not ruined for me, quite the opposite

with my involvement in making them. And it was great to be part of that canon. It was a lovely world to step on to. Again, it was, you know, these worlds of imagination that were represented by what J.K. Rowling created, you know, in Harry Potter and Fantastic Beast, and what Tim Berkin has created for 30-plus years and what he created with Dumbo,

are incredible worlds to step into. They're more exciting in a childlike way than the lobsters and the Sacred Deers, of course. It touches the different part of you, yeah. Really touch an existential part of me that still struggles with the meaning of life. Dumbo and Fantastic Bees, not so much, but God, it's a good day out at the office, you know?

I remember talking to you once, we were talking when we sat down here about I'm going to cinema con next week, I was interviewing you on a carpet there. It was for the Sophia Coppola film, and Oldman walked by. You guys had a great moment. Oh, that was beautiful.

What a spirit. That was, yeah, lovely. And there was me caught in a moment's... No, truly. Honesty. I saw a 12-year-old Colin. Totally. And he is there.

He's in the passenger seat. He was more in the driver seat some years ago. Right, exactly, yeah. But he's in the passenger seat and he'll never be evicted from the car. He's earned his place, you know? But that was, yeah, having a little.

Little Word with Oldman that day. I mean, huge. I grew up, you know, Sid and Nancy and meantime and, you know, every other film that he's, you know, he's just an extraordinary guy. Let's not forget about the transformation that is Bram Stoker's Dracula. Oh, God, which I loved when that came out. I literally memorized that script, I think, at the time. God, that's another really pleasing watch still to this day. It's a really pleasing watch. Well, because of the way Coppola approached it too. He used old school effects. It's not dated at all. It's just, yeah. That bat suit at the end was extraordinary. CGI, you know,

I mean, there's not a lot you can do with a flying elephant, you've got to go CGI. Sure. Tim is adamant that as much reality as could be lent to the experience of telling his stories, he'll get in there and lend it.

No, I'm thrilled. I was, frankly, relieved to how much in watching it. He's gone to the different ends of the spectrum. He's used CGI a lot. Totally. Yeah, Alice films he had to.

Yeah, absolutely. But this one works. With a mix of special effects and practical, this is, again, akin to, as you were saying, Edwards, his hands a little bit. Yeah. Speaking of stuff,

by Fantastic Peace, are the kids more of a deciding factor at all in terms of Dumbow in terms of, you know? No, it's just good fortune, yeah. It's just a nice kickback to do something that they can actually see, you know, because they're not really in Bruges and Sacred Deer aren't appropriate.

You're not going to start them with Sacred Deer? That's not the... Oh, my God. No, it's always, yeah. Let's see what happens to a child if I begin them with killing them with a sacred deer. Yeah. And then get a pillow case to put over their heads

and see how they react while they're watching it. No, no, no. Yeah, it's nice to do things that they're... It was really nice to sell this film, Dumbo on the road because just the sense of light around the whole thing was really extraordinary and infectious and she we did the premiere in L.A. and it was just kids and families and I thought man Dwayne Johnson is onto something. This is a beautiful energy to be a part to put an end to the world you know instead of usually having depressed adults leave my films

these kind of you know and earnestness is like the one thing that like feels like is out of fashion now so any antidote to that is like so welcome there's nothing and it's not earnest out of it's into you know yeah you got to just to embrace it um So what is the, do you trust your gut more in terms of how you choose your stuff nowadays? Like, do you feel like you have a better sense of how to navigate the career? No, and any films that I did from, you know, 2000 to 2008 or 10 or whatever, they were all still on paper. They were, it's always a shot in the dark.

It's always a shot. There are just too many factors involved in making a film. Look, I see a film that I think might be a steaming turd. and I still take my hat off to the endeavour. Well, you know. You know what goes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Effort that goes into it.

And nobody goes out to make a bad film. But now I don't feel like I have any better creative barometer or any higher degree of certainty as to what will or won't work. It's just a case of wherever you find yourself on a particular day and the questions you have in life and, you know, you have a marriage of your own beliefs and the beliefs that are represented in the material. Are there's a diametrical push between what you believe as a human being and your philosophies of life and the material,

But you just have to be curious. There has to be something in it that moves you. You know, when I read The Lobster, I did not know what the hell they just did to my brain after an hour and a half reading. And I couldn't imagine. I couldn't envision a world where you could deliver these lines in a way that were normal. Right. That weren't weird. Right.

That the character wasn't feeling like. I was like, how do you inhabit that to the point where you can just have these conversations and they can be just a normal? normal wave community but I had seen dog tooth and that's what you know I've worked with a lot of first-time directors are at least a few but oftentimes as well like I'm going to work with a filmmaker called Koganada now in New York over here in May and June and I saw a film that he did call Columbus and I was did you see it I didn't see really lovely intimate film with Jon Show oh I did see that one yeah yeah yeah yeah so I'm gonna work with him next and I just saw that film and I

just thought it was so beautifully told and his framing was kind of if yours was a a little more, a little less abstract and was doing a little more kind of, I don't want to see, a little more straight down the line drama. It'd kind of be what Kogananda did on this film. There's an awkwardness of framing, but it's very beautiful. It pulls he into the film. And there was a lack of histrionics and the characters were dealing with very weighty themes, but they were just deeply and simply inside the story. So I'll go to work with him, you know, so I don't feel like I have any more acute a barometer than I ever did. Is there a filmmaker that you've chased whether consciously or unconsciously

over the earth that you're surprised you haven't worked with yet no not at all I'm surprised really with the directors I have worked with it's amazing yeah it's some list of it's amazing you know I mean there are filmmakers I really adore and you know it's like I don't think there's a better filmmaker in the world than PT Anderson you know

I just don't I think he's just extraordinary do you see Phantom Thread I mean the first 10 minutes of that it was just lying on the couch like catnip it was like cinematic catnip yeah the second time I saw it I was like oh wait this is one the best black comedies I've seen in, like, a decade. That's pretty.

This relationship between him and his sister is pretty special. So great. Yeah. I will let you go. You probably have another point to jump on to. Who knows where you're off to next. He's home, baby. Good for you.

But it sounds like you'll spend some quality time in New York soon. Yeah, I'm looking forward to. Excellent. Excellent. Congratulations on being part of the crazy Tim Burton universe. Dumbos is a special one. Everybody check it out. We need a little light in the universe right now.

Yeah, for sure. And thanks so much for your time. Thanks, Chuck. Always a pleasure, man. Thanks a man. Cheers, pal. And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes

or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressure to do this by Josh. Goodbye. Summer movies, Hello Fall. I'm Anthony Devaney. And I'm his twin brother, James. We host Raiders of the Lost Podcast, the Ultimate Movie Podcast, and we are ecstatic to break down late summer and early fall releases. We have Leonardo DiCaprio leading a revolution in one battle after another, Timothy Shalame, playing power ping pong in Marty Supreme. Let's not forget Emma Stone and Jorgos' Borgonia. Dwayne Johnson, he's coming for that Oscar. In The Smashing Machine, Spike Lee and Denzel teaming up again, plus Daniel DeLuis's return from retirement.

There will be plenty of blockbusters to chat about, too. Tron Aries looks exceptional, plus Mortal Kombat 2, and Edgar writes, the running man starring Glenn Powell. Search for Raiders of the Lost podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube.