Happy Sad Confused - Colin Trevorrow, Sam Richardson

Episode Date: June 15, 2017

Normally it would be easy to resent a guy like Colin Trevorrow, a filmmaker who somehow made the leap from a small Sundance debut (“Safety Not Guaranteed”) to being given the keys to a beloved franchise like “Jurassic Park.” But Colin is as aware of his luck and as humble as you could imagine, so unfortunately we’re just going to have to like him and appreciate his talents. Colin joins Josh on “Happy Sad Confused” this week to geek out about “Wonder Woman,” his secret past as a child opera singer, and, of course, his new film, “The Book of Henry” (opening this week). Oh, and then there’s “Star Wars.” As he prepares to direct “Episode IX,” Colin talks about his early obsession with the franchise, why he thinks he was destined to direct a “Star Wars” film, and just how he got this job of a lifetime. Also joining Josh on the show this week is the extremely funny Sam Richardson, best known as the sweetly earnest Richard Splett on “Veep.” Sam talks about how his one-episode guest spot blossomed into a series regular role; how he got his own Comedy Central show, “Detroiters,” off the ground; and why he’s desperate to get into the next “Black Panther” movie. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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This week on Happy Say Confused, Sam Richardson on Veep, Detroiters, and winding in on a Marvel movie, and Colin Travaro on dinosaurs, Star Wars, and going small with the book of Henry. Hey, guys, I'm Josh Horowitz. Welcome to the podcast, a fun podcast with Sammy as always. Welcome to the podcast. Welcome to the podcast. Very wrestling announcement. That's what I'm going for. This is all just a gateway drug for me to finally become the wrestling announcer I was born to be. You'd be like, oh, he's really nasally today.

Why is he wearing so much spandex in the podcast booth? No, actually, I was not a big wrestling fan, to be honest. Is that surprise you? You wanted to read books. What? You wanted to read books. I did like reading books. I read a lot more when I was a kid than I do now.

Did you read comic books or real books? Both. Yeah. Yeah. Do you know how to read? No, I read magazines. Do you read magazines? No. What's your favorite magazine?

Oh, Entertainment Weekly. Classic. Shout out. EW. I do. Yeah, that's the only one I subscribe to. Really? Mm-hmm.

I do like my EW. I like, not that you ask, because you don't seem to care. I don't. No, I guess. All right, let's hear it. Get my van fare. Oh, only if, I only like it if it's a good person on the cover. Well, it's a big magazine.

There's a lot more than just that... No, no, no. When I look at Vanity Fair, in this age of print dying, is it's one of the few magazines that still has, like, it's there's some bulk to it. Yeah, I mean, I'm just a firm believer in judging things by their cover. Right.

So if it's not, doesn't look good, I have no real interest in it. That's fair. That's fair. I feel like we're having two different conversations because I'm obsessed with the size of the magazine. You're obsessed with a cover. Yeah.

Because I'm upset. Here's what I'm upset. You want to know what I'm upset about? I'd love to. Because I grew up reading, like, crazy on magazines. I subscribe to everything. and for a while I wanted to, like, and I did work in magazines briefly, but like some magazines that I grew up with, like Rolling Stone, is like a pamphlet nowadays.

It's like 24 pages. Remember it was really big too? I missed that. It's just not a good subject. It's a sad subject. No, it is. You're right. Vanity Fair is the only, well, and then like the real ones, like the economist or whatever.

Okay, I thought you were going to say in terms of bulk, because you still have the fashion magazines are still big, the vogue and all that. Yeah, but those are all ads. ads, yeah, yeah. Anyway, the show. Speaking of ads and Vogue and Entertainment Weekly, I'm sure Sam Richardson's going to end up in the pages of Vogue one of these days. Yeah, he's very Vogue.

He's very Metball. If you guys don't know the name Sam Richardson, you know the face, you know the comedy stylings of Sam Richardson. Of course, Richard Splett on Veep. He's my favorite. He's great. And that's saying something because that's a cast, that's a rogues gallery of comedy icons. What?

Rokes Gallery. Oh, yeah, of course. Okay. Nope, but season six is coming to an end this Sunday on HBO of Veep. Don't worry. It will be back next season, season seven, of course. And, yeah, he's kind of a scene stealer on that one. It really is.

He really is. The sweet, innocent voice of Richard Splett amid that nest of vipers. Yeah, he is. He's like this, like, heart that just is in the middle of all of this negativity. Yeah. He's great on the show. And he's also, he just recently. wrapped

season one of Detroiters on Comedy Central which is a funny show I caught up on recently when I knew he was going to be on and it's him and a friend of his

co-created it and co-wrote it and star in it and it's basically about like kind of like low-level admin in Detroit and Sam actually

grew up in Detroit and kind of tapped into some of that for the show a very funny show that is yes getting a season two as well and you can catch up

on season one it's on demand that's how I found it on Comedy Central So yeah, a lot to talk about with him And later on in the show After the comedy silings of Sam Richardson For film geek fans,

This is an exciting one. Colin Travaro, who has so much going on. He is the director of, he infamously kind of came to, you know, fame in the film world from Safety Not Guaranteed, the small film that was at Sundance And then made this gigantic leap to Jurassic World. So he is a big couple of years.

coming up. Oh, my God. So Jurassic World is the fourth highest grossing film of all time he made, and he is about to direct episode nine of Star Wars next. He's just written the Jurassic World sequel, which is being filmed right now. And in the middle of all that has also directed a smaller film called Book of Henry. So we'll talk about that in a little bit, but a lot coming up with Colin, and we cover all of that. So you figure you have the whole plot of Star Wars. We don't have the But I will say we talked a lot about Star Wars. So if you're, if you've tuned into the podcast this week for Star Wars Scoop or at least Colin Travar are talking about Star Wars, you'll get Star Wars talk.

You're not going to get like plot details. He mentioned the word Star Wars. No, it's more than, it's much more than that, frankly. I mean, I knew enough not to ask like spoilery questions, but it's interesting to hear him kind of weigh in on why he loves Star Wars, how he got the job, et cetera. But that's later on. We'll get there. One thing at a time.

Let's go to my conversation with Sam Richardson. He just exited the podcast. booth. That seat is probably still warm. It is. It's actually. It feels nice. Yeah. He's a sweet guy. Check out Veep and check out Detroiters and enjoy this conversation with the very funny guy,

Sam Richardson. Sam Richardson has the audacity to show up 25 minutes early for an interview. Who the fuck do you think you are, man? A big shot. It's great to meet you, though. I'm a big fan of your work. Of course, everybody knows you from Veep, and congratulations on Detroiters as well, man. Thank you very much.

Which has been Greenup for a second season. It has. We're writing it right now. The tail end up writing it. We're going to go and start filming in July, mid-July, season two, and hopefully it'll come out, according to schedule, probably end of February, middle of February. Nice. So give me a sense of, well, I mean, we're going to cover both of those, but since we're talking little Detroiters, and I know that's obviously your baby, you and your buddy, tell me, like,

just sort of like, were you, because this is the first thing of this scale, certainly, that you totally have created and written and started, and, you know, it's a big deal to get something like that off the ground, much less on Comedy Central, and then to get the audience and good reviews, and then to get the second season. So just give me a sense of sort of like, were you stealing yourself for disappointment? Was this, what was the process like? I think, like, the whole way, Like, it was like, well, all right. Like, every step of the way I was prepared for it to be, like, done. Like, all right, well, you know, we weren't able to sell the pitch.

Okay, well, we did. And it's like, oh, okay, well, we weren't able to, like, the pilot. Someone went wrong with the pilot too bad. Oh, okay. But then, like, it didn't. So, like, every step of the way, like, just preparing yourself for disappointment. But then, like, been pleasantly and incredibly happily surprised that you just keeps on moving forward. And with me, like, because like in the show, it's me and Tim, and like, you know, we're best friends.

And that's true in real life. We're a little bit codependent on each other. So I really didn't have like a lot of space to be too nervous about it because Tim was just full on in spin out mode. So he's even worse. He's even further down the road. So like all the time, I'm like, if I want to spin out, there's no time to come. I'm like trying to make sure Tim doesn't spin out all the way. That's probably healthy in a weird, bizarre, fucked-up way.

Maybe. Like, the show is doing good. And he's like, oh, no. This one person online doesn't like it. So I'm like, well, wait, Tim. Right. Take a second. This is what we should cancel this show.

You're like, no, this is what we've been dreaming about, man. That's what we've been dreaming about. This doesn't happen. Yeah. I know Sudecas has been a big supporter of you guys, who's one of the smartest, funniest guys on the planet. How did you guys get associated with him and how did he kind of help shepherd the one. Well, we're all Second City family. So I met Jason through Second City. In fact, I met him when he was, he was already at SNL. I went to see a show, to see a taping of SNL when I was

on the touring company, met him there. And then he would come to Second City in Chicago and like do the sets and then we became fast friends that way. Tim, Jason and I all. And then And Tim went to work at S&L with Jason, and Jason kind of came under his wing. And then eventually was like, you know, you guys should do a show. You guys should be doing it. Because, like, we'd always talked about it. Sure. You know, Tim living in New York at that point, me living in L.A.

But we'd all the way through when we were in Detroit, then we were in Chicago together. We were like, we should do a show. But then Jason was like, you should do that show, do that show. Yeah. It's like, oh, yeah. Then I guess you have the power to do it now. Or the, like, the avenues that exist. You can get you in the room.

You can get you in the room, you know? And then it's on you. Yeah, exactly. So what do you like tend to like, what's your point of entry with people? When you meet some like Sudakis or something like that, like how do you bond with a person? Like on what level? Genuflect. That's the automatic.

I noticed. Yeah. Oh, yeah. You didn't bring me anything, man. No, there's like a dead squirrel I brought in my teeth. It's, I put in your office somewhere. That'll be a nice surprise. If you find it, the key is to find it before.

The smell hits. The smell hits. It turns. Exactly. But then the funny thing is you got to use a smell to find it So chicken and eggs But I mean Because I know like Jason's like a big sports guy

Is that like a point of entry for you And like what's a point of commonality with you and your friends That like you Comedy is really Like if you have the ability to get in a room And just do bits with each other Yeah Then that's like the language

And you so for anyone that doesn't know Detroiters As the name would Would reveal Set in Detroit which is where you were born. You had the classic childhood of a split between Detroit and Ghana that many kids have. Typical.

Yeah, my mother is from Ghana, and my father's from Detroit. So I would just go back and forth a whole lot. And so, you know, it's like being a fish out of water somehow in both places, like in Detroit, I was the Ghana kid. So everybody would be like, well, what a funny accent you've got. It's like, you hear him? He said, mum. He said mum, and he said waistbin. And then in Detroit, or in Ghana, they'd be like, whoa, he's got a crazy stupid accent.

He says butter and water. It's the classic Superman caught between Krypton and Planet Earth kind of thing. And I get my power from the red sun. Are you a big comic guy? I am. What were your comics growing up? Marvel or DC guy? I was always both.

DC, typically because like I feel like DC comics can appeal to younger people because it's very much, it's more black and white. The archetypes. The archetypes. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. So you're dealing with gods among men. I mean, and then with

Marvel, I think as you get older, you're like, oh, these guys are me, but then they're put into a different, like, like, they have these things put upon them. Yes. Or like, even like when you get to like X-Men, where it's the idea of like, their puberty is. is exponentially.

Ooh, exponential. Wait, Sam. If you just take the X out and you put a debt, that's the exponents. No, no, no. I think I've got it. No, Sam, Sam, I don't mind. The exponents. The ponents.

So what was, have you got in on any superhero auditions yet? I have not. What? I'll tell you what is my, I am so excited. I'm excited for this Black Panther movie. I've never been more excited about a movie in my life. It looks so good. And it's so Africa, you know?

And I'm like, oh, that's amazing. So I was like, why can't I be in it? You know, I'm watching. So I'm just going to tell everybody that I'm in it. Right. And I hope that it catches on and up. They're like, well, we got to put him in this. What would you cast yourself as in the, when they do the reshoots for Black Panther?

What's the? The blacker pantherer, probably. Right. Because every black panther has, there's always going to be a blacker pantherer. Just there's always going to be somebody more blacker and more pantherer. I think it's a lesson that kids need to learn. Yeah. And, uh.

That does legit look amazing. It's Ryan Coogler. Ryan Coogler. Like, and seeing, uh, uh, Chadwick or which? Oh, well, Chadwick. And first of off, Chadwick, what a, I always am like a stickler. little bit about African accents in movies. And he's from, I think, South Carolina. Right. But that Chala accent that he has, I'm like, that's perfect. Like, I, like, watching Civil War,

I'm like, huh, we're in Africa. Oh, that's right. He's not from Africa. But the accent is so good. Because so many times I feel like, like, people put, it's because it's not an accent that you really practice a lot. It's a little over the top when they do it or what? Well, it's always American, It's always an American accent with an affectation put on the, like, the cadence. Right. So, but then, like, they miss, like, the vowels, I feel. Right. Like, even the African accent, you know, it has to exist in a place where, like, all the accents are, the accents, it depends on where you're from, but it's easy.

Right. You know, there's a joyousness when you do that. That's beautiful. It's like a Ghanaian accent. Like, it's like, it bounces in a very, like, light and, it happens. But, like, I feel, like, I feel, like, it, I'm, I'm talking accent theory. No, it's good, it's good. Okay, well, tell me that.

So, did you, do you ever have had, from your travels growing up, did you ever have an accent? Like, I have, like, a slight accent as a kid, like a very slight one. So I would say things like Lou and, like, strawberry and stuff like that. Aluminium. Aluminium. Aluminium. Aluminium waistpin. Lou.

So what was your pop culture intake? We know the comic books. Like, what were you into as a kid? Police Academy movies. And, like, because of Police Academy movies, I was like, I think I'm going to be a police officer. Oh, God. That was like, a really bad police officer. Just doing voices.

Doing voices, using superhuman feats of strength and, like, just being funny. Well, we've got Steve Gutenberg here to surprise you. Oh, my God, the Goots! The Goot! Get in here. Goot is jacked. Is it? Yeah, in recent years, he's turned him to, like, he's like, does the bowflex or something. I don't know what he does.

It was foretold. The Sears predicted it. Sears predicted it. One day, Gutenberg will reemerge. Glutenberg has got strong butt missiles. You see? Got it. Guys.

Exponance. It's all off the top of my head. That segues nicely into the Second City training. So when did Second City enter the picture? I actually, I wanted to see my first Second City show in Detroit. when I was 14. And I was in, I was in high school, and a friend of mine was a senior in high school went to, was in classes, so I went to see his class shows.

And then I was like, wait a minute, this is the second city? This is actually second city affiliated. And so I would just like go all the time. And when I was 16, I was able to take classes. So I started taking classes from then on and then kind of just stuck with it. You're listening to Happy, Sad, Confused. We'll be right back after this. So is there a big comedy and second, like, is the Second City scene in Detroit?

Like, is it a real formidable one? It is. It's now since closed. Oh, no. I went to do a cruise ship from Second City. What? Second City was on cruise ships and on Norwegian cruise lines. That's what they all, you aspire to get to.

That's the high. more. That's the brass ring. But truly, it was kind of like one of the, a great experience because I would work on this cruise ship. I would work five hours a day. Or, sorry, five hours a day would be great, wouldn't it? But it was like really five hours a week.

Oh, my God. And the rest of the time was just me living on this cruise ship. Yeah. That's a good gig, yeah. Yeah, it's a great gig. And, like, I got so many reps because you do these shows in front of these huge audiences of like 1500, 1600 people. But then, like, all the other time was just, like, you on this cruise ship or on these islands, and you just kind of forget what real life was.

Right. So I felt like then you're, like, comedy or, like, your point of reference and all that kind of starts to atrophy because you're like, I don't know. What's a great comedic take? Isn't it weird? I have to wait on a beach for your beer? You know what I'm talking about, folks? I'm like, oh, too many beaches. I don't remember I'm out in Detroit.

When they run out of red wine at the open bar, that's crazy. Isn't that nuts? My man knows what I'm talking about. So when, at what stage of the career did you do your cruise ship stance? That was, I was 21, 22. Okay. And so like, good. Nice gig for a 21, 22 year old.

Perfect. Great gig for a 21, 22 year old. And, like, you know, I had done Second City of Detroit, and so, like, I did the cruise ships, and then from there, they hired me to go to Chicago and join the touring company. Which was a huge deal, obviously. Which is a huge deal, you know, and then from there did the main stage, and then from there moved to L.A. And the rest is history. The rest is history. So did it feel like, I mean, obviously a lot of people really started to come to know your work from VEP.

and which began just as a guest spot literally just one one episode and then like it went well so they brought me in for the second episode of the season and then they were like stick around

so like I was like there and they kept saying like we're gonna bring you back for something and so I was just like kind of in of Baltimore it was filmed in Baltimore so I'd like come to Baltimore or leave Baltimore and they'd be like maybe you're gonna use you for this

and then they brought me in for episode 10 of season three and it was kind of like even for me I was like, looking at the script, I was like, oh, this might mean something. Because I just came, I just come in in the end of the episode like, hey, I'm here and we're checking these phones. I was like, hmm. I didn't, like, make an offer or anything.

But like, I was like, well, it was very nice than to bring me here for this. But it kind of like, I think that was them kind of being like, we're going to make, you're going to add you to the roster of people. So when you showed up on set for that first, like, one off. because you had done things like that before and I'm sure like any actor you come on set and you have a dream of like they're going to fall in love with me and they're not going to be able to say no

and this is it well it was really about like Sam don't don't fuck this up I was like because I remember I was so you do the the table read out there so we did table read and then we re-improvised

the script and like first off like I remember I was flying to Baltimore like reading the script on the plane, like looking like a real obnoxious douche. Like, oh, I'm just reading my script guys next to me. It's not a big deal. I'm a working actor. You have the VEP cover page, like, really out there,

like just showing to everybody? Veep, Episode 301, page one. Cast list includes, just doing my job. An actor prepares. Actor prepares. That's what I am. I'm an actor.

I'm preparing, so. And not to mention that table read, you're at with Julia. With Julia. With Julia. Wall. It's crazy. And like Tony Hayle, Tony Hale, you know, Gary Coleman. So I'm just like, oh my goodness.

And like, you know, you're used to everybody kind of being like on autopilot or like just kind of like thinking about like their stuff. So like not like icing other people, but like like, you know, just kind of like making sure their stuff works. Sure. But then they would all laugh and like just enjoy the read. And I was like, oh, this is fun, you know? Then we did the, we re-improvised kind of my scenes afterwards with Julia and, and Kevin Dunn. And like, we just had fun, like, re-improvising these scenes. And, like, the writers were, like, were there taking notes and, like, having a good time, too.

So it was like, oh, this kind of feels good. And, like, that Second City kind of prepares you for re-improvising. Sure. And, like, kind of taking, like, beats. A germ of an idea and then just kind of. And a drum of idea. And, like, kind of, like, going, like, fleshing it out or feeling it out or, like, kind of finding a new, like, a second thought on a first thought. And so, like, I felt like it was, like, a perfect place and, like, use of, like, those skills that I had been working on.

So I was like, oh, here we go. This is the best, best possible scenario for me. So I was, so I did that rehearsal. And then, like, it was time to, I was in. Baltimore just like kind of waiting for my day to film. And so I was there for like maybe three days, just kind of twiddling my thumbs. The day before I was supposed to go to set, I went to like this restaurant and I was just like kind of sitting at the bar.

It kind of just like, do my acting thing. There we go. Better not screw this up. And then I see Craig Robinson was in that restaurant. And I did, I did the office with Craig. Sure. And like, see, he's maybe the only like celebrity that I knew like. who would maybe know my name.

Right. You know? And so I see him, he's like, Sam, what are you doing? I was like, I'm here. So then we hang out with Craig Robinson. Then we go to do this show in, at the university,

John Hopkins. Sure. And so he brings me on stage. I do like a little bit with him. And he's hanging out. And I'm like, wow, what a fun. Oh, no, I got VEEP tomorrow. So I'm like, oh, you got drop me off at home.

And you're like, what are you talking about? It's like, you're being a nerd. I'm like, yes, I'm being a nerd, but I have to do my due diligence. Yeah, you don't want to end up in the wee hours. Craig Robinson, that can lead to all sorts of. It's a dangerous scenario. So, like, had I not remembered, who knows what, like, the world, my world and would have been, but I went to set, had a good time.

It was, like, just really fun. And then they just kind of kept on bringing me back. When did you start to notice that folks outside of the cast and the writers, whatever, that people were responding to this character? Because he's such a great contrast to the other characters. It's like it works because of his, I don't even know. How would you describe earnestness or? His earnestness and it's like guilelessness and like just his optimism. Yeah.

You know, I think it's such a contrast to the other characters who are just. Vipers? Vipers, you know. The worst people on Earth. The worst people, the ones that you couldn't trust to turn your back to. Yeah. You know, I think it's that positivity or that sort of the opposite of that, which makes him kind of stand out as like, people respond to them like, I want to know that guy.

Yeah. It's like, that's very sweet. Sometimes I think people think that I am that character. Yeah, I was going to say. So, like, what is the, like, recognition, what kind of interactions do you? Is there a typical interaction when people recognize you now? I realize I can't ever, like, make a mistake or, like, a verbal slip or, like, say something to them. They're like, oh, you're just like your character.

And I'm like, well, no, you've insulted me greatly just then. But it's fine. Like, I think there are worse people to have people assume that you are, like, skeletor, maybe, just off the top of my head. Right. Yeah. Sure. I realize that's a very Richard thing to say.

It could be worse. It could be skeletory. Look, we've been waiting for that He-Man reboot any day. You can get you in Black Pantherer and the He-Man and the Masters of the Universe.

We'll see. I'll do a Merman or a Beast Man. It's meant to be. Man-y faces. So the last episode of season, what, is season six right now? Season six. Crazy.

And it's rare, as you well know for, so you came on, I think, what, season three. And to get that kind of of opportunity in season three and to see a character build and see a show you know maintains such a high level a degree of excellence through six seasons is remarkable especially with a change in leadership at one point so a testament to all you guys um what can we look forward to in season six and are there any do you know anything about season seven at

this point uh i don't know anything about season seven uh but for the finale of of season six It takes place in the world. What? I'm always so worried about like spoilers, you know? There's a little baby coming. There's a baby? There's a baby coming. I don't know if you, like in this season, Richard donates sperm to Catherine.

It's a little inexperienced. He's never masturbated before. Yeah, that was kind of a revelation. You know? I mean, I guess if you're putting your money on any character on television to not have masturbated, maybe it's him. It had been him. You know, and he calls it self-husbanding.

Yes. Or shaking the devil's handshake. Shaking the devil's hand. That's what you go. Remarkable. Okay, so that's Vee, and you said you're need even writing season two of Detroiters right now. Yeah, we're the very tail end of writing season two of Detroiters. And we'll start shooting that in the second week of July in Detroit.

Excellent, excellent. And anything else on, I mean, between those two shows, you know, it's an embarrassment of Richards. I've got two relatively, you know, beloved shows going, what else do you need in your life, man? Why are you so ambitious? Just stop. I need validation. Give me more, give me more. Give me more.

Well, I'm a huge fan of your work, and I'm glad we got to know each other a little bit today. Looking forward to the last episode of season six and season seven of Veep. And, of course, congratulations on Detroiters, man. That's a hell of good achievements. Thank you so much. Everybody should check it out. It's on Comedy Central's Digital. platforms and on demand catch up with the 10 episodes of season one and get ready for season

two uh i presume next year yes next year excellent uh thanks man nice to meet you so nice to meet you black or a pantherer check it out wait no that's not a thing sam it will be okay the people will speak by people do me just mean means me a lot okay it begins here it begins here grassroots That was Sam Richardson. Once again, the star of Veep and Detroiters, a whole lot going on for him. We're very happy for him, a good guy. Another good guy behind the camera, Colin Travaro. I mentioned in the intro, Sammy.

This guy's got a lot going on. He's the busy guy. He's got a big deal. No, but it's cool. I always love it like when like, these contemporaries who kind of are clearly as much film nerds and film geeks as they are clearly exceptional talents make it. And he is one that certainly has made it. Safety Not Guaranteed was this great kind of small, quirky sci-fi comedy, dromedy that hit Sundance a few years back

and had Jake Johnson in the cast as well as Mark DuPras and Aubrey Plaza. And then out of that, got the gig of a lifetime. He got, you know, Spielberg himself kind of handpicked him to direct the Jurassic Park sequel, Jurassic World, which was a fan favorite. I know it had, you know, divisiveness among critics, but it did certainly please audiences and made a gazillion dollars. I think technically made a gazillion dollars. Yeah. I think it's like you can't even count it. It's at a level where like the calculator stuff. Yeah, they just break. They just smoke comes out of the calculator. If you have a calculator, probably now if you have a calculator, it's probably dying or smoking. You need to change the batteries.

You should probably reevaluate your life choices. But I love talking to Colin because he steeped in all the stuff that we all love here on Happy Sack and Fused. He grew up. Chris Pratt. Yes. He was steeped in Chris Pratt. He grew up loving Chris Pratt. The things we all love.

What I mean is he grew up loving Star Wars. And like, you know, that's what I asked him was like, and you'll hear in the conversation is like, what was the first thing you were, you know, obsessed with him? It was Star Wars. So the fact that he is now directing episode nine and we'll be directing that relatively soon. They're working on the script right now is pretty remarkable. And we do talk a bit about sort of like a big moment he had when they announced the sequels. And he was like a director nobody had heard of.

He like decided in his own head that, yes, I'm going to direct one of these movies. Not even with hubris, but just like he felt like a destiny to do it. And sure enough it happened. He secreted it. He did. He did. He really did. Oprah of filmmakers.

So the film that we should mention, though, that he's promoting that comes out this Friday is the Book of Henry. And it's a cool, weird little movie. I mean, it's a movie that kind of is hard to describe without revealing a lot of plot details and it makes it a challenge to promote. But it stars Naomi Watts and Jacob Tromblay. I mean, come on. What else do you need?

Nothing. You got the Tromblay. You need nothing else in this world. And it's a film about a lot of things. It's kind of has elements of drama, it's a bit of a thriller, it has a lot of big kind of twists and turns to it. They've in the marketing of it, they've been careful not to reveal too much, so I'm not going to certainly reveal it here. But suffice it to say, if you're a fan of a filmmaker that, I mean, I think it's a testament to what the kind of career Colin is starting to carve out, that he went from Jurassic World and he already had like Star Wars about to happen, but decided I have to make this little film in between. This is like kind of a pet project.

So he jammed it into his busy schedule and it comes out this Friday and check it out if you want to see what he's up to and see some really cool performances from Naomi Watts and some very talented young performers. So yes, enjoy this conversation about Book of Henry

and stay for the Jurassic World to talk. We talk a bit about that. Actually a fair amount of details about what's in store for us in the next Jurassic world and yes, some Star Wars talk as well. So without any further... It's a big one.

It's a big one. Let's get to it. It's a big deal. Here's Colin Trevaro. Enjoy. There's no official introduction, Colin. I'm sorry. Do you want an official introduction?

Should I, like, sound a bullhorn or like a gong? Does it, did it start already? It just happened. You don't feel that? It's on now. It's happening. It's my first podcast. Is it really?

Yeah. What? Where have you been? It's good to see you, Colin. Thanks for coming. Good to see you today. Congratulations on the film. The film is Book of Henry.

A great piece of work. Amazing performances all around. We're going to get to Naomi and your great young performers in a bit. But it's good to have you because you're somebody that I've talked to at least a couple times, certainly in the crazy Jurassic press tour. I imagine this feels like a little bit of a different journey considering, we'll just there are less bells and whistles. It's almost more about you

kind of selling this movie in a way than relying on dinosaurs and Chris Pratt. Yeah, in every corner, you have nothing to fall back on. You're just naked when you make a movie like this. And it's interesting because we have these three children who are extraordinary in the film, but you're only going to rely on them so much to go out and sell the film.

And, you know, Jacob Tremblay, however, adult and mature he may be on screen. When he's off screen, you just want some Legos. He's a kid. Yeah, just give him some Legos. And that's why he's so great. Jaden Lieber, who's excellent, is a little bit more adept at speaking to these things. But it's hard for all of us.

Interviews are challenging. So another thing we were just talking before this began is that it's a difficult movie to market. And it's hard for me to sell it because part of it is what we don't tell you. It's a very – and look, I'd seen the trailer before I'd read up on it. Obviously, keeping up with your career, I was curious about it. But even seeing the film, it's one of those films that kind of like kind of takes a left or right, like a hard right or hard left turn every 20 minutes. And I mean that as a compliment because, you know, obviously, you know I see a lot of movies. And it's nice to kind of actually be legitimately surprised and watch something that's a little bit unpredictable.

Well, that was really the thing that attracted me to it in the first place as someone who also sees a lot of movies. You know, we always know when the first act is breaking. We know we're savvy and we are not surprised just as a general audience, it seems, these days. And so the only way that you're able to show anyone anything that is going to be unexpected is to, in the case of safety not guaranteed, not narratively support it. Because we know when you're laying down the stepping stones. Or in a case like this, just not tell anyone and make it kind of a pop-up movie, which is what it is. We're not really even marketing it until two weeks before. So, you know, it's something that I'm so proud of, and yet the elemental kind of mythic nature of it, the thing that makes me love it as much as I do is the thing that I can't talk about so people will be surprised, so I don't know where to land.

Well, I remember, you know, and this isn't necessarily revealing plot kind of issues that you're talking about, but like when I spoke to you on the Jurassic tour and you were planning on doing this, I believe, at the time, this was always the plan. You know, you were talking about it in terms of like, I need to, you know, I kind of made a weird jump here. that doesn't usually happen. And I need to kind of go back and kind of like define myself as a filmmaker through what the normal kind of second film would be, maybe. Do you feel now in retrospect, talking to you on the other side of it,

how does this define you as a filmmaker? What is, you know, what's the Travaro brand, if there is. There's kind of two layers to that. I do have a sense, I have this sort of Japanese businessman's sense of honor that I feel like, look, I was given this opportunity that was, you know, beyond both my experience level and even my years.

And I've said before, I probably said to you that I didn't necessarily even agree with the circumstances of my own hiring. I don't know if it's the best thing to be taking independent filmmakers and thrusting them into these massive, you know, corporate behemoths that require a filmmaker to not just make a movie, but be thinking about what licensing is going to need and what marketing is going to need and how it's going to feed all of those tentacles. and it's a very different kind of job. And, you know, as somebody who, you know, I don't want to use the word integrity, but I want to do good, am I allowed to swear on the show? Absolutely. I want to do good shit. Yeah. And so, you know, to be able to go and take something that is genuinely different and truly original, almost aggressively original, and lay it down after something that, you know, it did all right.

The Jurassic did all right. Fourth highest grossest movie of all time. It did all right. Like, my really arrogant thing, like when I've had a couple drinks, as I say, it's the biggest summer movie of all time. But it's only, look. How many drinks is that? Hey, it's a good thing to have in your pocket. And so I was like, yeah, but the other movies came out at Christmas.

All right, Derek. I don't want to hear it. What about adjusted for inflation, man? I'll shut up. Come on. But, you know, I just, I feel like, and it's not that I want to be setting an example for other filmmakers, but there are others in my generation who have been given similar opportunities. And I had actually all of them in a room. We all watched this movie.

I had a screening, you know, and Ryan Cougler was there, and David DeVernie was there, Jordan Vote Roberts. A lot of the, a lot of these contemporaries, yeah. Yeah, a lot of these contemporaries who have all been given, you know, extraordinary opportunities. And in my little preamble, I just, you know, the only message I had to them is like, let's not forget why we're doing this, like why we came here. And even if that means taking a risk and laying yourself on the line and, you know, wearing your heart on your sleeve a little bit, let's do it because people expect that of us. I mean, we're the generation. Let's make original

movies. You were, and you kind of alluded to this. I mean, a lot has been made about people like you and Jordan in particular in terms of kind of like this giant leap. And you've been lumped in kind of like an unfortunate way where like, you know, there's this great story right now in movie making that we're all enjoying this moment as we tape this about Wonder Woman. We're all thrilled about it. Did you see it? Oh, yeah. Great movie. Great movie. Had an amazing effect on my daughter like that was just elemental like it was deeper my wife and I and my son liked the movie loved the awesome movie and then we look over at Lou and she's like in this running position and it has her brow furrowed and is like she wants to watch this movie every day she is wonder woman now she's five

and it really it was it was striking and even as a father uh to realize you know you watch things a little bit differently as a father. And you start to see media and you see the way that female heroes are presented to young girls. And that movie was something she had never seen before. I don't think it's something that most of us had never seen before. And it was kind of surprising to me. I don't know how it hit you. Like, you know, and I'm frankly, I'm not a dad. But like, it did hit me in an emotional level, like, especially that kind of first act of seeing sort of like these Amazon warriors just and not being objectified in any way, just kicking ass and something in the way she presented it felt very empowering and beautiful and exciting

and new. You realize while you're watching it was that big sweeping wide shot of everybody fighting when they were all practicing and you realize I've never seen this image on film before, what I'm looking at. And you didn't necessarily think about that on the way in. And then you walk out and you're like, and it's, it's pretty incredible. So how do you, I mean, my first point about it was, and I'm sure you know, well, what I'm driving at is like this kind of narrative about Patty, which is crazy that like it took her, whatever 15 or 16 years to like get the second feature off the ground. I mean, she's obviously had a great television career going for many years.

But, you know, you did make this insane leap and others of your gender have made this crazy leap. Did you feel entitled? Did you feel this wasn't worthy of you? Do you feel like if your name had been, you know, Betsy, Trevaro, you wouldn't have had the same opportunity? I mean, what's your take on this kind of story? I would hope for a little better than a bet. Can I get like an old school? This is like an Alana or like something a little more.

I mean, like 1940s. Betsy. You know, look, I mean, the real answer is there's no way to know. Right. But I think that, you know, what we have. seen very clearly is a want and a need from the studios at the highest of levels to change this this you know pretty embarrassing institutional problem yeah and it's it's coming from two places one it's it is coming a little bit from a source of

embarrassment but it's coming from the place where all decisions in Hollywood come from which is money demand yeah demand and money and that the audience wants movies that are diverse and original and different and they want to hear voices that are not the same voices that they've been hearing for the past hundred years. And they're speaking at the box office by what they go to see. And that's the best possible way for change to happen because it's completely, it's integrated into this system that is founded on money already. And it's going to be real. And it is real. And, you know, for me, all I can really speak to is what I've, you know, how I fit into all that now is the ability I have as an established filmmaker to be able to have climbed to the top of the wall

and then reach back down and lift some other people up. And I think the goal for anyone in a position like mine should be try to lift up some people who don't necessarily look like you. And it's something that I've been able to do. And in the past year, I've met an extraordinary young woman named Emily Carmichael who came to the set of Book Henry and shadowed me on set and we started working together in that way. And now she's writing a movie that she's going to direct for Amblin

that's based on a story of mine. She's booked another movie to direct at Fox. She's writing multiple major tent pole films, some that I'm not allowed to mention. One of them was Pacific Rim 2. And this has happened in one year. Most of that had nothing to do with me. But the fact that like what Kathy Kennedy did for me,

what Brad Bird did for me, that I was able to walk into a room, and say, you know what, listen to what this person has to say. Just vote. I'm going to vouch for this person, then I'm going to leave the room, and she can take it from there. And I think that if we would all just try to do that for one person, it might make a difference. Totally. So let's go back if we could.

Grew up in, correct me if I'm wrong, Oakland? I did. Okay. So were you, we're basically around the same age, so I'm guessing some of the pop culture touchstones were similar. But give me a sense of sort of like where your head was at in terms of pop culture growing up? What were you obsessed with? What was your? Pop culture growing up was

all Star Wars and then a little Tintin. That was my only other element. Very worldly. I just loved that. I loved that sense of swashbuckling adventure, you know, pirates and gold. Sure. And it's, I guess it's a little bit old fashioned. But I was, you know, I like, I love the Marvel movies that they're making, but I was never a comic book kid. I wasn't a G.I. Joe kid.

He man. Any of any of the other things. It was Star Wars all the time, and then that's what I read. And then I read a lot. I had, you know, wrinkle in time and just like I was pretty deep into just all these, actually a lot of books that they're making movies out of now, which I think are going to be great. What was the first Star Wars experience in the theater? I went and saw Empire Strikes Back when I was very, very young because I was born in 76, so that would have been the first one.

And I remember the movie. I also remember the indelible memory was actually my mother going back and getting furious. the projectionist because he showed a trailer for American Werewolf in London, which was inappropriate for a five-year-old. And, of course, my mother would be the one to do that. And I love her very much. And Jedi was different because that was 1983. I was six. And my father, we didn't have a lot of money growing up. And so, you know, for something to cost $50 would be a huge deal. And there were tickets to at the Piedmont Theater, which is in Oakland, at night before, Thursday night where there was a costume contest and tickets for 50 bucks each. So we spent the 50 bucks and we went there was $100 for both. It was a big deal in 1983. And I dressed up as a Jawa. And I had the language down and the voice and everything. And I won the costume contest. The prize was $100. It's like my Capra-esque childhood story.

Sounds almost made up. I'm going to trust you. You got to trust me, but it happened. Or the photos of you as a Jawa that exist? They're probably, you know, I should dig those up before episode nine comes out. This is good marketing material. I think we all have photos of ourselves. That's not that big a find. Well, it is when you're directing one of the movies, I would think. Was your action figure collection pretty good? I mean, you would say you would just, yeah. Yeah, it was beat up. I didn't keep them in the box. I was out in the dirt and I would take them to, you know, if we went up to the mountains, I would take them in the snow. And so my mom

actually sent them to me when we were in Vermont. She sent them so I could give them to my kids. and they were just in, they were in a state. I mean, they were in horrible, horrible shape, just fingers missing. But that's, you know, and I showed them to my kid. And I was like, you know what, this is what your action figure should look like. Exactly. Use them. Don't play with them.

You're not reselling them on eBay. No. And what was, did you have a favorite character? What was your, what was your obsession in the Star Wars universe? In Star Wars? Yeah. You know, what's interesting is, is, oh, I'm not going to declare that this is interesting before I say it. It might be interesting.

I was a rebel. I had Pam solo. Well, no. No, I was always really dialed into the force. You know, the force itself, because I was, you know, as far as a, you know, there are Star Wars fans that are fans. And then there's a group of Star Wars fans that, you know, that have a belief system. And they believe that the force, you know, connects us all, it binds the galaxy together. And it teaches us how to be.

It teaches how to treat each other and how to respect each other and how to control your anger and things that you should be thinking about as a kid. So I was one of those kind of fans, and I kind of still am. In lieu of or in addition to your religious beliefs, this filled in a little bit of a belief system for you. I don't know if I want to get too deep into that, but it definitely provided a foundation for me of what I believe in. And honestly, like, I think you could ask anyone of any religious faith what they believe in, and they'll say their faith and the force. Because I think that it'd be hard to, you know, it's one of the most amazing things about Star Wars. you could put a bunch of people in a room who believe a lot of different things.

And the one thing they could all agree on is like, well, you know, yeah, there may be an energy field that binds us all together. So, you know, fill in the gaps for me a little bit because there's a big, obviously, gap from being, you know, six years old and seeing Return of the Jedi, and then you kind of emerging, what, like 35 or 34

with, like, safety not guaranteed. And I know you'd sold at least one or two specs. You'd made a couple films. You'd made a film that was kind of an early, clinical viral video that did pretty well. Weird shit. Weird shit. Um, so were you making a living before safety got not guaranteed? Where did, what was? So, I was thinking of living as a screenwriter for a while. And when did, when did that happen? What was the big? That was early. I mean, like, just to back it all the way up, just, you know, I started, uh, I was, I was, I was really into

theater when I was young and I was, you know, these are the places where I would say something like this because, you know, no one, I mean, people are going to hear it, right? I think so. So let's just do it. Let's get it out there. Let's get it out there. I was in the opera when I was a kid. What? I was a boy singer. It's a true story. I was in the San Francisco Opera and I would dress up.

Is it Java? A Java opera? No, but you kind of have to have a vocal register that high. But I know I was a second soprano, which is a little bit more. Okay. I just made an arm flexing muscle for those who can't see. No, I was in the San Francisco Opera chorus as a child. And it actually, it surrounded me with professional working adult performers.

Yeah. did give me an insight into what that life is like and what actors need and also made me unafraid of a big emotion and, you know, playing to the rafters. You know, opera is as dramatic as it gets. And I was in that, you know, I did a lot of theater and Shakespeare and was acting up until, you know, I went to NYU. And then after that, I, you know, I had always wanted to be a filmmaker, but I thought that I would start in acting and in theater and that at NYU I was focused solely on writing. I didn't really make a lot of student films because I knew that was also an impossible thing to do well. And I respect that so much that I wanted to hone those skills

as much as possible. And then really just focused on writing as a way to start a career as well. And I sold a script called Tester to DreamWorks. You know, I didn't entirely come out of the blue for Steven Spielberg. He had bought a script of mine when I was 30. And Jurassic happened when I was 37 or 38. So, you know, I'd been a bit on the radar. Yeah. A guy named Walter Parks who used to, and Laura McDonald bought that script. And then I was, you know, I was just in the screenwriting trenches for a while and learning that system and learning how the development process goes and kind of becoming a bit of a scientist on like how development processes can go wrong. Yep. Because it really becomes in handy later down the line.

Were there near misses in terms of those early scripts, that early script you sold in terms of it coming close to fruition? I mean, did you feel like, oh, this once it's something? old, like, oh, this is going to happen. I'm making a movie. We all feel that. Of course they're going to make my movie. I actually ended up working that script for five years with Walter Park. Who's a brilliant, both he and Laura McDonald are are brilliant storytellers, and they taught me how to write. I mean, they taught me how to work the material and challenge myself. And then I, you know, I pretty much every, I never got any rewrite jobs.

I would do original things, and I would pitch original stories and, you know, studios would buy them and I would write them out and so I was really subsisting on on original stuff which is part of what you know made me so eager to keep doing that you know as a filmmaker but no none of those it's not a shock to think that none of those original pretty large scale movies they would have been 100 billion dollar movies right ever got made because they don't do that that doesn't happen anymore sorry guys and then you know and then safety I actually I moved to Vermont which was a you know I never really know how quite to explain it, but it's in the Hollywood screenwriting directing handbook. You sell a script to Spielberg,

then you move to Vermont. And I wasn't in any kind of financial position to do that. Like, I was at a point where actually I was, I was at kind of a low point where I didn't feel, you know, you go through these ups and downs. And there's moments of just crushing soul-numbing rejection that everybody, you know, there's no Cinderella stories. There's no overnight success. And I'd had enough of that that at a certain point, you know, my wife and I had we wanted to have kids and I was she's from a very small village in the south of France a very kind of provincial life that has nothing to do with Los Angeles at all. And I decided she loved Tintin though. She did love Tintin. That's it's it's a touchstone for both of us. But you know I just

looked around and decided okay well I want to I want to sort of produce a life that's going to work for this family that we're going to create. So I got a stack of magazines that said all the best places to live in America. And Burlington, Vermont came up number one. And it was like an aggregate in a lot of these magazines. I know this sounds ridiculous, but it's true. And so we move. You're a methodical man, Mr. Tarvaro. Well, you're going to produce a life. You know, we're to produce anything. So we're like, all the rhythm is in, guys. We're moving to Burlington. It has, you know, health care and education and all the things were just off the charts. So we go and we see, we saw this house on the internet that, that, uh, we're like, why would no one buy? Look at this. You could get, you know,

a studio apartment beneath the flight pattern of the airport in L.A. for this. So we just bought this house. It was like World According to Garp. It was just like, we're going to live here. The plane just crashes in. And we lived there for seven years. And we had both our kids. Actually, they were born in France, but we went back and forth. And I directed safety and Jurassic and Boca Henry all while living there. And I wouldn't necessarily recommend it as a career path. The only thing I would recommend is being just willing to fail because I didn't want I wanted to be a director

badly and I wanted this but not at the expense of my life and so what is the what is the turning point to get safety not guaranteed actually greenlit to be made is it DuPoss brothers is it some involvement in the sundance is it exciting on of an actor like

how does that actually do you get on set directing a feature with a name cast like that well it was you know it was only a $750,000 movie. So, you know, we didn't need that much. And I think because I, you know, Jake Johnson and I have been friends since, I guess, 2000, like I guess 17 years now. He's coming in tomorrow, by the way, for the podcast. Jake will be here? Yeah. Okay, we were just in London together. He's traveling the world for the mummy. Yeah. So, you know, so Jake and then Aubrey,

who was, you know, we shared a manager and we just started putting this together. And I, you know, I never talk about it, but there are other things that I had directed. you know, for, that I was able to show people that, you know, they were able to see and say, okay, we can... Are you talking about pornography? You were being very serious. I sounded really vague. It sounded like it was pornography. No, I'll tell you the story.

It was, there was a guy who, it was like a spec thing where he wanted to make a, he wanted to make a show about a young, it's like a martial arts thing about a kid who comes from Cambodia and is like, you know, fighting the mafia in Los Angeles and kind of has a bit of a superhero bent to it, but a very grounded thing. and he's like, this is what I want to do, and I'm making it into a web series, and I have X amount of dollars to create like a five-minute, you know, reel of what this would be. So I got my, you know, my cinematographer from home base, from the very first thing I did, and I got this group together. We made something that it looked like a movie. You know, they didn't give us a lot, but those five minutes looked like five minutes of a movie. So I was able to take that and give that to the guys a safe snack guaranteed and say, look, like I, you know, I choreographed this massive martial arts fight scene. Right. With, you know, in two feet of water with a chain whip.

Can I go do this other thing? This is Happy Sack Confused. We'll be right back after this. And so looking back on the experience that was safety not guaranteed, which, as I recall, had its debut in Sundance, and people immediately responded very well to it. Was the actual production directing of it, enjoyable, stressful? This is what you've been building up to for years. You're finally there, even if you've been directing these smaller things. You have a bit of a reel.

This was the goal, ostensibly. Did it feel like, okay, I know what I'm doing, or, oh, fuck, I hope this actually turns into a usable, decent film? I did feel like I knew what I was doing. I'll be honest with you. I felt like I could do that. And I don't, if I'd walked onto a set with lights on it, That might have been different, but keep in mind, like,

Satan I guarantee was like a bunch of people running around in the woods with video cameras. And I did feel confident doing that, especially because we were, we made a movie that was presenting itself as a mumblecore film because that's how I got the deal to do it. I told Big Beach, because they wanted to be in business with Mark Duplos and J. Duplas. I told them, we're going to make a mumblecore movie if you give us $750,000, which is what they had spent on a movie just prior to that. And they said, great.

And then they started seeing the dailies, and they were like, well, this doesn't look like a, this looks like a movie movie. And I was like, well, what do we do now? We've already been shooting for a week. Oh, well. But, you know, it also was fast because it was four weeks. It was done. Yeah.

So by the time I had any minute to think about it, it was over. And, you know, Jurassic felt the same way. Like, you know, you're just, when you're parachuting into the alien war, you don't have time to ask, like, why are they here? Like, you're fighting. Now, how quickly did it turn in terms of? like once it shows at Sundance, I assume it didn't have distribution then, in terms of like getting you in the room, like for all these interesting meetings and what obviously ultimately led to Jurassic. Did it feel like it went from zero to 60 overnight or what? No, you know what it

was and this actually helped what happened has helped inform, you know, the way that I've helped younger filmmakers that I'm working with because I sort of see how the, you know, how the system works a little bit, and that just getting one studio to say, yes, I would trust this person directing a movie of this size, whether or not that ever came to fruition, suddenly the other studios say, well, you know, that person has been trusted by someone we trust. And so the first thing that came to, Derek and I actually split off because he got hired by Pixar, and he was there for like a year. And it was, it was a challenging summer because we had, you know, we'd taken that flight of the navigator script and there were, you know,

this movie Intelligent Life that we wrote. And it was, it was tough for, but, you know, both of us because he had a full-time job, and yet we still had to deliver on all these other movies. There was just, I don't even remember it. It was, there was so much work that was being done. And ultimately, I mean, the answer is that I wasn't, I wasn't looking for something like Jurassic World. I wasn't out on that path. I was going to do the book Henry. And we were, I was in the process of negotiating to actually do the movie when we got the Jurassic phone call. So, you know, it wasn't, it wasn't some kind of Machiavellian plan. But, if I can I can be Machiavellian for others now on their behalf because I know how to do it.

So and what was the story at the time with the whole episode seven Brad Bert, Bird conversation of Star Wars? Can you clarify like what actually went down? Were you in the running? Was Brad kind of like positioning you to help on that? Or what would happen? No, I, it's kind of, I definitely wasn't in the running to direct episode seven. It was it was just that Kathy had seen safety and and responded well to it. And Brad had also. And so it was that there was this morning where I was just at home and my wife says, you know, there's an article on the computer saying that you're being considered direct episode seven. And look, I mean, the emotional moment that you think people have when they hear they're going to direct something, I had it then. And so when episode nine finally happened, I'm like, I've already banked my like fall to the knees like, oh my God, is it real? Right. Like, I had done it.

You can even consider that I can direct a Star Wars. movie is amazing. I was just like shaking and you know and I had a like look just because we're being honest with each other when I found out that they were going to do Star Wars movies. I remember I think it was November, October of 2012. Sounds right. Yeah. Right. I went down to the beach. I had this almost like spiritual experience. I went down to the beach and I called everyone that I've ever met, everyone I've ever known. Like definitely all my good friends. And I said, look, I'm going to do this. Like, I'm going to direct a Star Wars movie because that is what I truly believe I am here to do. And not in an arrogant way. I, like, really, really deeply, I believed it. And not that I was

going to do that one, because I knew that was crazy. And sure enough, I wasn't in the running for that one. But I did, just in the same way, I'm sure, you know, Ryan and Gareth and a lot of the other, you know, Phil and Chris, and even JJ, you know, I'm sure they had to, least have a moment where they felt like, oh, this is, this is why this timing, this is why I was born at the time I was. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And JJ did everything you could to resist it, but it was just too much.

I mean, it's like, on paper, he did, he didn't want to do that kind of a film. And yet the pole of his childhood and just the responsibility, the destiny of it all was too much. And I thought he did. It was kind of my last moment of, like, childhood optimism. Like, where, you know, I wouldn't ever think that way now. Right. But after, you know, at that moment.

I'll never forget it. And as far as the, you know, the Brad Burr thing, I think that's been, you know, he was talking to Kathy about doing the film. And he brought me up as a possibility of, well, this is, this is maybe how I could do. He wanted to do Tomorrowland. And this is, you know, maybe Colin could come and help, you know, get things going. And then he could do one of the later ones. But it just, you know, it was met with a blank stare. Like, I promise.

So what, you know, I'm not going to even try and get like plot-y things because we still have wonderful Ryan Johnson's film to come. I'm going to totally dodge everything you're about to do. No, it's okay. But I'm just curious, like, process of getting the job, of getting the ultimate job. Can you talk a little bit about sort of what that one? You ultimately, was it a pitch for a specific sort of take on Star Wars, why you were the guy, why you went to the beach that day and why you were, like, what did you, and how long a process was it? Just can you give me a little bit of background in terms of how you got the gig for episode nine?

You know, I directed Jurassic World with Kathy Kennedy's husband as my producer. And every day he saw the kinds of choices I was making. He saw the way that I interacted with actors, the way that I treat my crew, the way that I handled a situation that is akin to, you know, ordering off a Chinese menu for 150 people every day for three years and knowing what everybody wants to eat. And it's not like every film. And I think that after, you know, I was on that, I was working on the movie for two and a half years. And Kathy was in and out and she was observing the way that I was working. So by the time it got to the end, we had a relationship. They knew the way I think.

They saw the way that I, you know, I had taken where they were at. They had they had a script and they weren't happy. And I had conceived what we ultimately did. And, you know, it was just a much more organic process than, like, come into the room and tell us, tell us what you want to do. Right. And you were telling me when you got here, you've obviously changed your life, your family's life for this job. And it's worth doing to get to go. this roller coaster ride that is Star Wars, you're living in England.

I mean, just what is it like to kind of work with this kind of like group right now with Kathy and the team? I mean, is it a unique experience in terms of like all the resources of Lucasfilm and and I would think, you know, Ryan's a resource and JJ if you need him, et cetera. Just give me a peek into that process for you. It's kind of beautiful, actually. I mean, it's a really, it's kind of that creative socialism that you would dream would happen where you have, you know, I am surrounded by people who are brilliant and all have PhDs in Star Wars

and are able to, you know, engage in some, you know, some really challenging questions we're asking each other, not just about what happens, but about why it happens and what does this all mean and why was Star Wars? And, you know, Kathy Kennedy and Michelle Rejewan, who's my creative producer and Kiri Hart and her whole story group are really the main people that I interface with. But then there's Ryan and JJ who also are involved, Lawrence Kasden. And so these are names that you just gives you a certain amount of confidence. The story we're telling has been vetted. It's extreme vetting in the best possible way.

Have you seen any cut of Last Jedi? Have you seen anything? I may have, but I. I'm not asking you to recreate it for you. I'm not going to act it out for you. Damn it, that was my follow-up. Well, JJ, Ryan has said that he asked JJ to make a small change at the end of Force Awakens, where he wanted R2 to go with Ray to the planet.

Is there anything that is similar where you've asked Ryan to make a change or adjust something or, hey, can you do this because I have an idea for something in episode nine that'll pay off? There was one little thing. It wasn't an adjustment. It was, could you shoot this one extra thing while you're in this place on this day? He did it, which was great. But, you know, it's part of the collaborative process that exists. Everyone is in communication.

And there's such a genuine want to get this right from everybody. And I think that, you know, one of the misconceptions that I think people have is that there's some kind of, you know, great corporate overlord that is dictating this story to everybody. And that's what it's going to be because it's going to sell the most toys. The reality of it is that it is a small group of people, but it's actually, you know, kind of large. when you think about it, and none of them are corporate. All of them are creatives, and all of them are genuinely, very sincerely wanting to do the work of their lives in order to realize this. Well, it seems that way too.

I was over at a celebration, I think you were to perhaps. I was at the London one, yeah, yeah. So I was the most recent one. And I asked, you know, Kathy about sort of what happens after episode nine. And, you know, she was honest. She was like, you know, we're still figuring it out. And, you know, like the corporate kind of thing would have probably been to be like, yeah, we've already like nailed down three more release dates, et cetera, but like it seems like

it comes from a genuine, obviously, look, they're, you know, you want to make money for everybody. But like, they also want to do right by the fans and do right by this thing that has made, meant so much to all of us, including all the filmmakers involved. Yeah, I mean, they're not going to do anything unless they know it can be great. Yeah. And last thing, like, where are you like in the process right now? I mean, like, is there a script? Are you still kind of like working on the script?

There's a script. We're definitely still writing. We're designing the prep process in a movie like this is long, and we'll be shooting in 2018. Well, I love to go to London and England, and I'm looking forward to the invitation any time. I've got a list. I've got a number 10,000 on the West. No. I know I have Jacob Tremblay to deal with when it comes to request. I was going to say, if you don't make him a Jedi, like you're going to ruin a child's life, man. No pressure. Don't I know it, man? It's funny. There's a photo that they hand out for the book, Henry, to press. And it's Jacob and I sitting on steps, and he's wearing like a little magic outfit. And we're talking, we look like we're talking about the characters. And I remember the conversation. And we were talking about, you know, Anakin's fear of loss. And what drove him to the dark side. I'm also so excited. I mean, you're obviously hugely involved in the next Jurassic in that you story or co-wrote it. Correct me. I wrote it.

I mean, Derek and I, I mean, Derek and I wrote for, you know, for about the first eight months. And then, you know, when he had to move on, I kept going. And I was actually the onset writer on that movie. I would show up with my backpack every morning. It's just like, what do you need, sir? And it was amazing. It was very, it is thus far, you know, my favorite creative collaboration that I've ever been involved in. and that, you know, J.A. Bayona is a completely different kind of filmmaker and thinker than I am,

yet we do have a lot of things in common. And so I was able to craft something specifically for another filmmaker that I admire. And I built a Spanish horror thriller with dinosaurs on it that I probably wouldn't have built for myself. But, you know, especially since, you know, he's completely adept at taking on movies of any size. In fact, his previous movies had longer schedules than this one. Oh, really? You know, The Impossible, I think, was like 100-something days. Wow. The very complex productions, you've seen that movie.

So it was really more about, you know, somebody who, you know, his English is great, but it's a second language. And so being able to get into the nuances of how, you know, people talk is something that everybody was, you know, very collaborative on. And, you know, Belanitania, his producer, was great, too. But I got to tell you, man, I think that's going to be a better movie. I'm just going to say it. I really do. Is it more in like a horrific kind of scary bent? Is that one of the objectives? It's just deeper.

It's more character-based. And it's definitely leans into suspense, especially in the second half. It does have the big action in the middle. And there's a sequence in the middle that, you know, I've been watching. I mean, I watched Ailes every day, but I've started to see stuff come together. And it's just insane. And I feel like, you know, I apologize to those who thought they were never going to need to see another Jurassic World movie. because I think J.A. Bayonne is going to prove you're wrong.

Just my opinion. I'm a huge fan of his work. Monster Calls was truly my favorite film of the last year. So when I heard that you guys had chosen him, I was thrilled. How excited has it been to write dialogue for Ian Malcolm? You know, I did rely on Crichton for a lot of it. I used a lot of Crichton dialogue. But maybe one of my highlights of this whole process is that Jeff Goldblen called me.

And I'm not going to do an impression, but he was like, look, I, you know, I've added a couple, I've added a couple things, you know, just some, I thought I'd perform it for you. I'm like, oh, great, okay. And so we sat on the phone for an hour as he, as he ran these lines and we talked about it. And, I mean, that, it was almost better than being there on set. Like, it was great. And then, you know, I'm actually not going to be there.

I'm not going to be there the day that they do the next thing they're going to do that we were working on. But, you know, that's part of the whole realization I've had from day one is that I show up and I realize, oh, they actually don't need me here. And I just slowly back out of the room and they got this. Thematically, is there anything that you can kind of tease in terms of, I mean, that's the, you did a number of things so well, I thought, with Jurassic World in terms of tonally. It was, it was a hard kind of thing to hit where, like, the original Jurassic, I think you kind of similarly kind of hit that kind of like wonder versus terror, that kind of like balance.

And also kind of like throwing in this kind of very interesting take on consumerism, rampant and commercialism run rampant. I would expect that this isn't going to be just a thrill ride, although that's good, too. Is there something deeper that you're trying to get at in this next one that you want to hint at? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's definitely about our greed and what the depths of depravity that humans will sink in order to satisfy their need for profit. And we're certainly continuing with a lot of those themes, but in different ways. But there's, you know, Without spoiling anything, there's definitely new themes that have never been examined in a Jurassic movie before that we've gotten into that I really think will expand people's idea of what these movies can be, that it's not just people running away from each other on an island, or from dinosaurs on an island. Because I think that's sort of required.

I'm just not sure. It's not a forever franchise. It's in a lot of ways, like, you know, you could argue there should have just been Jurassic Park and that's the end of it. And so to be able to justify going beyond what we did, which, you know, we kind of kitchen synced it in a lot of ways as far as like, you know, action you can have, you know, on an island with dinosaurs. Exactly, yeah. And hopefully we'll prove what I just said wrong for part of the movie, and then we're going elsewhere. So it's going to be a kind of thing. Some bookhouse we haven't seen in the past ones, safe to say?

Safe to say. Okay. So bring it full circle back to Book of Henry. I mean, the curious thing about something like Jurassic World is, like, as huge attack. as it was, there's almost a weirdly kind of a template for something like that. You can kind of go back and look at Jurassic and other films of that type. For something like Book of Henry, there's not a guidebook for something like that. So was this one that, I mean, you're still kind of fresh off of it and you're talking about it a lot,

was this in a way more challenging than Jurassic? Definitely. And I'm a little, you know, I had to go shoot it right away. So we shot it, you know, probably four months after Jurassic World came out when we started. So I've been away from it. You know, I finished it probably nine months ago. And so I've had a little bit of time to be away from it. But, you know, it's extremely emotionally challenging as a filmmaker to go to the places that this movie goes.

Right. And it was hard for all of us. And you have, you know, Naomi and I were facing down our worst fears as parents. And the children are staring like the darkest aspects of childhood in the eye. Right. And yet the movie does other things. It gets into a very Hitchcockian space, and it gets suspenseful and arguably even exciting at moments in the way that summer movies do. And so the reason why, you know, they asked me when I wanted the movie to come out. And, you know, I love June because each of my movies have come out in June four days apart from each other, 8th, 12th, the 9th, the 16th.

And this is going to end that run. But I felt like the movie does something emotionally that is. sort of a, you know, it's kind of a cracked mirror version of the experience that we go through when we do see a great big summer blockbusters, you know, are they going to make it? Are they going to get there? And so I hope that when people see it, they'll be open enough to the changes the movie goes through, you know, life has no genre. Life does, as tonal changes that happen every day, we see it every week, or suddenly, you know, we're thrilled about something and then something horrible happens. And I feel like that feeling is, it's kind of new in a way,

this collective feeling of absolute horror. And we all have probably somewhat similar to reaction to it is that we get angry and we want to find a way to solve it and potentially would resort to means that are beyond our moral compass in order to solve it. And I don't know, I was operating off of instinct that I felt like this would be a movie for the moment, for the times, and I hope that it is.

I hope people react to it the same way I did. I mean, there are a lot of cool things the summer and big summer movies. There's probably not, though, a sequence that juxtaposes, like, a dance recital with, like, kind of a thriller kind of sequence. That's potential murder. Yeah, exactly. It's like a warped, like, De Palma sequence. It's very unique, to say the least. I'm very, I'm very proud.

I will humbly say I'm very proud of that sequence, but I have to share that with my editor, Kevin Stitt, who, you know, we worked on that. This is probably a two and a half, three-minute sequence in the movie, and it juxtaposes Jekino's score. that layers over to a talent show with children and ultimately a dance that Maddie Ziegler performs with Naomi Watts with a sniper rifle in a tree house with Dean Norris in her sights and however crazy that sounds I believe that by the time you get to that point in the movie

you will be fully invested in what's going to happen but the way that Kevin found to cut that I think is just virtuoso editing I think he did a fantastic job and nice to have someone like Gia Keeneau in your corner who you've had a couple of times. Yeah. Obviously with Jurassic.

I assume, I mean, hopefully we're going to, whether it's John Williams or Michael Jay Keen, you're going to be in a good spot for Star Wars, however that plays out. We have to send you back to England, I'm afraid, because you have to make a Star Wars movie for us. I'll tell you what I'm doing. I mean, actually, I have to cross the country on bended knee asking people to see this movie. Well, they should. I mean, as you said, I mean, look, I mean, it's, it's, I admire you for kind of like

mixing it up in this way because you can. Like, you know, you were both by luck and by talent, you had this amazing opportunity with Jurassic and you clearly could have just kind of continued and done this kind of thing. And the fact that you chose something so challenging is this material. It's worthy of everybody's time, especially in this crowded summer movie season. These are the kind of movies that need some love. So I'm glad that you're getting a chance to kind of spread the good word about it, man. It's, I got to say it's almost a little bit refreshing to have done something that I don't know if anyone's going to see. Because, you know, you know, people are going to show up for the dinosaurs.

And for this, like, I have to be, you know, completely earnest and just, you know, please come see our movie. Give them a chance, guys. Give them a chance. But, you know, we believe in what we did. And it was very much, it was made by a community of people who felt that this story was the right one to tell right now. And, you know, I believe in it. I stand by it. So I hope people will check it out.

Well, I'm glad you're pushing yourself in these cool and interesting ways. Book of Henry, well worth checking out. Everybody check it out and support Mr. Travaro's endeavors. and we'll see on the next one. I'm sure I'll be talking to you a lot in the next couple of years, man. Thanks, man. And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused.

Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh. This episode of Happy Sad Confused was produced by Michael Catano, Mukda Mohan, and Kasha Mihailovich for the MTV Podcast Network,

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