Happy Sad Confused - Constance Wu

Episode Date: May 19, 2021

Listen to Constance Wu talk for five minutes and you'll know how much she LOVES being an actor. On this episode of the podcast, Constance joins Josh for her first appearance on the show to discuss her new show, "Solos", why she still takes acting classes to this day, and her dreams of being in a movie musical! Check out a brand new episode of HAPPY SAD CONFUSED GAME NIGHT with Jane Levy, Skylar Astin, and Max Minghella here! For all of your media headlines remember to subscribe to The Wakeup newsletter here! And listen to THE WAKEUP podcast here! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Happy, sad, confused begins now. Today on Happy, Sad, Confused, Constance Wu, on her new series, Solos, and her comfort movie, Boogie Nights. Hey, guys, I'm Josh Horowitz, and as you can hear, the voice has been better, the sound quality has been better, but I'm alive, I'm well, and the podcast continues. I feel fine, guys, but as you can hear from my voice, I've been busy the last few days with the MTV Movie and TV Awards.

I'm in Los Angeles, and it's taken a toll on the vocal cords. I feel better than I sound. Trust me. And I also, of course, because I'm good that way, I didn't bring my recording equipment with me to L.A. So this maybe isn't the intro that's going to win the awards for best sounding intro to a happy, say, I confused episode. but damn it, here I am, nonetheless.

And there's a lot to talk about. So the main event today is Constance Wu. You're going to hear a great conversation with me and Constance about her new series. It's an anthology series on Amazon Prime called Solos, and it's a kind of a unique concept. It's a little bit of a showcase kind of thing for different actors, ranging from Morgan Freeman

and Dan Stevens and Anne Hathaway, and yes, Constance. Each one kind of has their own episode. Telling unique stories that sometimes are crossing over with each other, sometimes aren't. And Constance, of course, delivers a fantastic performance. Solo's debuts on May 21st on Amazon Prime, you guys should check it out. And, of course, this conversation is a wide-ranging chat about her whole career from her passion for acting throughout her life. And she lives for this stuff, as you'll be able to tell from the conversation,

to her amazing run of, you know, stand-out performances and create. busy rich Asians and fresh off the boat, hustlers. She has been killing it lately. So it was a real pleasure to get to know Constance a little bit more in this conversation and also talk about her comfort movie, PTA's great movie, Boogie Nights, a Moses sucker for PTA. So she won points in my book for choosing Boogie Nights as her comfort movie. So that's the main event today. A couple other things I do want to mention. As I said, I'm in LA still. I just did all my shenanigans for the MTV Movie and TV Awards, which was a blast. If you guys haven't checked it out,

check up my Instagram, Joshua Horowitz, or my Twitter feed, Joshua Horowitz, and I'm posting tons of photos and interviews that I did there. And it was a real unique experience in that it was kind of a very familiar experience. It was from the before times. There were a lot of people that I knew, a lot of people that I was able to see in person for the first time in, a good year and a half.

Like, I had not done anything like this since before the pandemic, and nor had most of the folks there. But it was so, it was weird at first, certainly. Like, it felt a little bit surreal, but I certainly felt like I got back into my groove pretty quickly, and by the end of the night, I was just having a blast. It started on the red carpet where I was hosting MTV's coverage for their kind of, like, teaser hits leading into the main show,

and that was a blast. was stuff like, that was live stuff from the carpet, which is always exciting, talking to Wesley Jones and the cast of Outer Banks and the scene Bredd, and just catching up with a bunch of folks. Then I went backstage for the actual show, where I see none of the show. I could not see one minute of the show, but I did get a chance to catch up with everybody as they came off the stage and won or presented. So that meant I got a chance to spend some quality time with Anthony Mackey and Elizabeth Olson and Catherine Hahn and the cast of Outer Banks and um I mean god there's so many more uh Henry Golding who presented the first clip from

snake eyes um on and on and on and like I said it was really like surreal in a great way but also very comforting and um and I'm just you know I'm so grateful and excited that we could have these kind of conversations. And, you know, me and my guests weren't wearing masks. We were kind of trying to keep our distance a little bit, trying to still adhere to the safety parameters. But, you know, we were tested, et cetera. And it's, we're in that kind of transitional period, right? Where I think we're getting much closer to, quote, unquote, normal-ish life. And this felt like a big, big step. Certainly for me personally, and just seeing that an award show can kind of, in all its silliness, go back to the before times and be somewhat normal. So I'm kind of exhausted

in a good way. As you hear, the voice has been better, but I'm just so thrilled. I'm thrilled MTV had me back for yet another year. I'm thrilled that, you know, we all came out the other side of this horrific last year and a half, you know, and we'd all been through a lot, but I think we're all more and more grateful than ever that we got a chance to see each other. person and have these kinds of silly fun chats about movies and TV that we love. So as I said, all that stuff is on MTV News's YouTube page on my social media feeds. Check it out. That was the MTV Movie and TV Awards. Also worth mentioning, we have a new episode of Game Night Up. Happy, Sad, Confused Game Night is up on the Happy, Sad, Confused Patreon page. If you've not checked it out,

go to patreon.com slash happy, sad, confused. The new Game Night episode features some of my favorite folks. It features Jane Levy, Skyler Aston, and Max Minghella. Jane and Skyler, of course, starring in Zoe's Extraordinary Playlist. Max currently starring in Handmaid's Tale and the new film Spiral, the new Saw sequel. This was another blast, 40 minutes plus of silly games and conversation, some to kilos was had and we had a we had a good time and i hope you guys enjoy that second episode of game night over on the patreon page um and yes some more exciting guests to come but um i'm really digging it

i hope you guys are as well again go over to patreon dot com slash happy sad confused to enjoy me being super silly with some of my favorite people on happy sad confused game night okay i'm going to give the voice a rest um and let you hear me in better vocal times with the very talented Constance Wu starting in her new series solos on Amazon Prime. Check it out on May 21st. Here's me and Constance. Hey Constance. How's it going? Good. How are you? You're fueled up on McCroy. I see I've got my Coke Zero here. We're just doing what we have to to keep alive. We have the beverages. We must podcast. We must podcast. I always feel weird. It's like, yeah, welcome to the podcast. And these

times it's like, welcome to the Zoom being turned on. Turn, let's have a chat. But I do appreciate the time today. I know, you know, I'm sure you've been talking your head off and there's a lot to talk about. We've never had this kind of long form conversation before. So let's get right to it. Let's start with where you're at, if we could. Are you literally right now Chris Pratting in world. Are you terminal listing? Yes. I like to turn everything. I'm a terminal listing with Chris Pat and having a wonderful time. And yeah, it's been really fun. Loved working with Antoine. I love, you know, as you can see from solos, I like playing roles that are different than things I've done before. So, you know, I did a suburban mom,

immigrant mom. I did a stripper. I did a rom-com heroine. I did Jenny. And now I'm doing a rogue war correspondent. I mean, you're just knocking on the list. It's so fun. I love it. I love stretching my, you know, limits. It's like the best thing. Yeah. I mean, I mean, I mean, like a muscular sort of director. I mean, this is like a testosterone cast. You got kitchen there. I don't know if you're a Friday Night Lights fan. I actually don't have any scenes with him. Unfortunately, I don't really get to work with him. Really, my scenes are just mostly with Chris. But, yeah, football, yeah, I can see why you say he's like a muscle guy,

but he also really has a very strong sense of dignity about him. And just a lot of depth and compassion that I really connected to when I spoke to him or taking on the job. And, yeah, I really feel like he's a real good actor's director. Well, clearly, he's directed a few to some notable, notable wins over the years. But I'm curious, I mean, that brings up, I mean, between terminalists, which are you shooting now,

solos, and just sort of the recent spate of diverse kind of performances that you've been given and the breadth of the roles that you've been in, right? It's kind of fascinating to me because, you know, we spoke, I think, the last time for hustlers, which came right off of Crazy Rich Asians, which came right off the end of your show. So, like, you've had, fair to say, a pretty good few years, a nice run.

And I would imagine more choice than ever in a career. And I'm always fascinated. I always have this conversation with actors, like, in that transition period, where you go from, like, taking anything you can get because that's the reality of an actor, from 99% of actors, to the luxury of choice. And is that something that's been fun or overwhelming, intimidating as you kind of start to steer your own ship for the first time in the last few years? It's something I think that has been very grounding.

Because I think when you have the privilege of choice, you have to, I think, determine what matters to you, and then base your choices off of that. So while, you know, somebody might care about, like, visibility or fame or access or any of these type of things and might choose roles based on that, which is, there's nothing wrong with that. That's your sort of MO, but I think it really gives you an opportunity to reflect. And it's like, oh, what kind of life do I want to live? What, like, what are my values? And, okay, now that I've determined my values, what are my choices going to be that are in line with that? And then there are always people are going to be like, yeah, but even though those of your values,

you should ought to do this because that's Y, E equals that, that, that. And that's, that sort of, those are the voices you follow when you don't have the privilege of choice. Right. Some people still continue to follow them even after, even when they have the privilege of choice, because they haven't taken time to sort of sit down and be like, okay, what really matters to me? Well, in some ways, it's right. It's the easier path to just rely on folks that, you know, know the business to be like, oh, this is what I'm supposed to do. I'm going to trust in that. And I guess you said, there's something wrong with that necessarily. But, you know, to take ownership over your own life and career and. and decide what story you want to tell with the career you carve out is a yeah and also but you know in another sense like being an actor has always been very much my identity like even if i wasn't making living off of it i'd still i still go to acting classes every week like i still read plays and see all the theater i could get this is who i am so i'm very defined by that but people

who decide that they want to uh you know do whatever their agent does or throws at them, their values might lie in a different area of their life. Like they might be like, oh, really, I just want to do things that facilitate like my family life. And so those are my values. So I'm making choices based off of that. And as a new mother, like, I'm starting to understand that. That's, I've never thought that there was anything I could love more than acting truly because it's like it is the very depths of my soul. Like I loved it since I was a child and I find new things every day about it I love. But then I had a child and you know what?

I love her more. This is probably a good thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think she'll be glad to know that. Yeah, I'm glad we have this on tape for when she comes over, she'll know. But yeah, what fun about being alive is that your values change and that like you get to change with the things in your life that happen. What about the notion that,

because it sounds like from hearing conversations you've had before, like many great artists, and I think the greatest ones are tough on themselves, right? They hold themselves to a high standard. As you've achieved more commercial success and critical success, do the voices in your head get quieter? Does success, has success in the last five, six years,

especially, giving you more peace and confidence? Or are they just, Are there just new demons to deal with and wrestle? I think there is just more context, which I think because sometimes I think when you're younger and you're really hard on yourself, you're like, this will make or break me. Right. And like when you get older, you realize that like this is actually just all part of the process.

And, you know, the most dangerous thing you could be at is like if you think like, oh my God, I did it. I'm great. Everything's awesome. Because then you've stopped evolving. And when you've become stopped evolving, then you're kind of not alive, right? Then everything's static. So I think having more context makes you understand that not everything hinges on one thing. And that gives you a lot of freedom to play. And it kind of makes it more fun. And it makes you less hard on yourself when something didn't work because you're just sort of like well i guess that's part of i guess i need to do that to know that didn't work right now i know you the hardest things that happened to you in your life are like when you look back you're like wow that was a really good learning moment yeah that was

um that really got me back to understanding who i am and who i want to be uh so so yeah i'm still hard, quote unquote, hard on myself in that like integrity matters to me and I'm always sort of chasing it, integrity of my characters. But I'm not hard on myself in terms of if something didn't work. I don't see it as a failure. I sort of see it as like, oh, yeah, that's part of me sticking through to my integrity is trying to figure out what works and what doesn't and how cool that you tried something that you weren't sure was going to work. and how cool that you found out. That's club.

You know, you have to think of it as fun. I think it's real fun. I'm happy to say solos does succeed. It's a great performance, and it's such, I mean, I can imagine for all the actors involved in this anthology series on Amazon Prime, what the appeal is, because there's a lot to chew on for all of you guys. And like, you know, this is, I would think it,

I mean, reminds you of some work in the theater. I mean, these kind of performances, this kind of like opportunity to really dig into a character and these kind of like extended monologues, et cetera, doesn't come very often on camera. And there are some great things, you know, in theater you see it. Like I remember seeing performance of the Syringa Tree or like Belfast Blues, like those kind of like flea bag. I saw, I saw Phoebe Walleridge do the stage version, which is not, you know, the TV show. Like that kind of stuff is so fucking fun and cool.

cool. Like, I get real psyched by that. But yeah, you don't. The last time I saw something like this on television was probably Nightingale on HBO. Oh, right. Over a decade ago, I fucking love Nightingale. Yeah, that was like... What David O'Yolo? Do I remember that?

Yeah, yeah. I was so dope. And his performance was so good. Like, I'm such an acting dweeb that when I see a good performance, I like get like super fucking pumped out. Oh, I'm with you. Yeah. A thousand percent. Who did it? Yeah, that guy. he fucking did it and he went there and that's how it was with nightingale and so i feel like

the last time i saw that uh was nightingale and so to see jenny's um jenny my episode jenny her experience and to have such a dynamic arc so fun also as an actor full of a lot of actor traps where you could get real actory um and that's really fun to see how you've grown as an actor Because I just think like, oh, man, if I played Jenny when I was like a freshman in my acting conservatory, oh. That's fun to think about, give me one acting trap that you, that in your wise age now, you know to avoid when playing Jenny. Yeah, I think of making it about yourself and your performance being good, like patting yourself and back like, oh, I did that thing rather than, oh, actually, this is about a person that's not me. it's not about you it's not about what you can do like you and the way around those traps that i've learned and continue to learn because i still fall into them sometimes um is uh you really just

have to give your heart and your ego and your soul over to the character without any prescribed ideas of how it's going to go or how it should turn out and you have to just have faith um that it will move through you as long as you're sort of, you know, really sticking to your integrity, your personal integrity of what it means to represent somebody else's story. Yeah, that's an act that that's a huge actor trap. It's one that like, I think I'll have to fall in, I'll fall into and out of for the rest of my life. And that's fun. It's like, ooh, that old bitch, she got me again. That ego. And I'm like, yeah. But she's back. she's still alive and wow she snuck back in there and then and then you're like oh shit oh that's fun

I got to think I got I got to go back and like get real humble again um and it's oh I mean it's fine yeah what about the fact that I mean obviously there's some pros and cons of this kind of the nature of this kind of performance and this production you're you're you're you're staring down the barrel for 90% of this you're like your your co-star is is us in a way like who are you a man is your scene partner because you're robbed of that. You're not looking into the eyes of a fellow actor, I would imagine. Yes, that's another trap, right? Yeah. Because I'm doing everything to camera to not have specificity in who you're talking to, that is a big trap.

And for me, so I sort of broke down the scripts. And like I stayed very true to the text. I didn't improvise. And I sort of broke it down into chunks. And in each different chunk, I'm talking sort of to a different person. Generally, I'm talking to a person in a waiting room, right? Quote in a waiting room. But the way I reconciled that is kind of like,

because Jenny starts the monologue super fucking drunk, right? Right. So I kind of reconciled it in the way it is in a dream, how like you, in a dream you might be speaking to your piano teacher. And suddenly your piano teacher morphs into your dog. And then your dog morphs into your dentist. And that morphs into your mother. And in the dream, it's seamless.

You don't question it. It's just like, oh, I'm talking to my sister. Oh, wait, now my sister's my dentist or whatever. And it just is seamless. And so that's sort of that dream state of who you're speaking to and how it changes sort of married with her drunkenness and her trying to figure out. on a micro sense, she's trying to figure out where she is and how she got there. Like,

did I walk here? Did I take a cab? But in a macro sense, she's also trying to figure out, like, who am I? What were my dreams? And how did I become who I am today? Which is why the writing is really great, because I think the writer, Becca, she really approached it in both senses. Right. I'm curious, I always curious, like when, in something like this, without kind of ruining specifics, you go through an emotional, you know, run the emotional gamut. It's fair to say at a certain point, like, there are tears. It gets, you know, you, you kind of like go through it, right? Or is that in the script, like specifically like Jenny is blubbering by now? She's like losing it. Or is that a choice you're making on paper or is that a choice you're making in the moment? Just, you know, I guess

How much specificity is there about physicality of that? You know, it depends on the script. Some scripts put in, like, character weeps here. I don't exactly remember whether or not the script had it, because me and my acting coach, those are what we call appointments in a script, like an appointment to cry, an appointment to scream. I scratch them all off. Okay.

And usually when the writing is good, which this was, they happen anyway, right? So if I was supposed to burst into tears at a certain point, I'm sure it was in the script and I did it, but I didn't do it because it was in the script. Right. Because anytime you prescribe what you're going to do, it's fucking out the window, man.

And then you're two steps ahead of yourself. And if you're two steps ahead of yourself, you're not in the moment. And if you're not in the moment, then you're not alive and then performance just sucks, right? So it might have been there. It probably was there in some certain parts. I mean, I think it's pretty apparent from the,

dialogue from the text, which I did say true to, what she's breaking down and what she's not. Yeah. And language has a big effect on this. Sometimes even saying a sentence, if it's written in a certain way, it just, it happens to you. You don't, you don't hit that appointment. You don't say, you know, there are definitely sometimes where, or directors like, oh, I need you to do this there. and it's yeah is that tough

and that's hard you know and it's when that happens when I was younger actor I just wouldn't be able to do it honestly I wouldn't be able to reach it because I would have so much anxiety about getting there when the time came and it took me a lot of like I said

trial and error and seeing what works and how your instrument works to sort of when I get a direction like that to translate it into my own head in a way that is playable that won't make me lean into prescribed appointments. That sounds so technical. Well, it's about avoiding the technical stuff. It sounds like it's about then of like not making technical in your brain. Sometimes you have to do mental jiu-jitsu in your mind to sort of get when somebody is trying to make you hit

the appointment mental stuff. You have to translate it in a way that's workable. for you. And the fun thing is because we're all different people. Different things work for different people. So that's why I still go to acting class every week because it's fun to figure out the things that work for you. It's fun, the older you get that you find new things about yourself and the way your instrument works. But yeah, as far as the things that happened to me in the more emotional parts of that episode, I didn't draw off personal experience because I've never tried to do what Jenny was trying to do and or failed at it and um it is really again like I keep saying empathy and imagination and just opening yourself up to the possibility and having

faith that she'll come through you and and she did you mentioned and it's clear in hearing you talk that like this has been in your bones acting's been in your bones like from you being a kid like pretty pretty early on. At its best on a set, does it feel analogous? Does it feel like play that recalls the early memories of just sort of goofing around in theater, community theater or whatever? My baby's like, crumbed.

You know, it's... She's laughing. It's so funny with her. Is she laughing at my question? How dare she? Yes. Yes. She can hear all the way from upstairs.

She's like, get in your floor. What a question. I don't blame her. Sorry, what's question? No, that's okay. It's okay. You've got a lot going on there.

I guess I'm trying to connect, like, the good moments on a set, whether it's in siloes or any place where you feel free. Does it connect back to your earliest memories of acting of when it was truly play for you as a kid? Yeah. You know, when I was a real kid, like when I was really first starting, The thing I actually connected to an acting was community, because I did, I literally did community theater. And it was just this feeling of like, I don't know, theater people can be kind of weird. And when you grow up in like the Waspy South, weird isn't always celebrated.

But in the theater, weird is celebrated. The weirdos go to theater and we're like, yeah, that's a cool thing about you, the thing that's different. And like we can. Freaks are welcome here. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, nobody's going to roll their eyes at you for screaming musical theater songs and think that they're too big at school. No, because in theater, we do things with all their heart. And so just sort of like that the feeling of community is something that I do miss a lot, honestly.

I don't find that a lot as much on film and TV sets because it's more departmental. Yep. and but it's like it's a different I mean theater acting and then like film acting it relies on sort of like your same essence but it's I don't know it's weird it's like a different it's like you have a different set of tools and it's like one kind of tool you can make like a cool sculpture and the other type or kind of tool you can make like like a piano I don't know It's just like, I don't think one's better than the other. It's just like you've got to play with different tools.

Like I think film and TV acting is a lot about thought and the character thoughts that are going on. And I think theater acting is a lot about the resonance of language and character. And I love all of those things. And so getting to work with different tools and different mediums is, Again, it's honestly, it's just more fun than anything. You moved to my neck of the woods, New York, where I am today, what, about 16 years old? Do I have that right? I didn't move there when I was 16 year old.

I went to a summer program, at least Strasbourg Theater Institute when I was 16. Then I went back home, finished high school, and then I came back to New York, upstate New York, went to drama school there, and then I graduated in drama school, and then I went on every backstage equity course call, all that kind of regional theater stuff couldn't get arrested in New York for like nine years. I mean, I did some stuff. And then I moved to L.A. and started doing film and TV.

And once I started doing film and TV, then the theater office came in. Of course, that's the way it is. Right? And I'm looking forward to capitalizing on that post-pandemic. I was going to do something like. You were going to do some theater here? Yeah, yeah. But then the pandemic hit and like, who knows the state of theater now? Like, what's going to happen?

So, but I do hope to get back to it because it's home for me. It's like when I, like, I even go back and I do staged readings sometimes just kind of for the fucking fun of it. And like, even like the discussions we have after those staged readings, like they just fill me with like, I just feel like, oh, my people. It's honestly very refreshing to hear this kind of conversation because I've talked to actors of all different stripes and like it's so like seeps out of you that like you know everything you're saying that fact that you go to acting class

which is yes to keep yourself yourself sharp but it sounds like it's just also because you like to act it's as simple as that you like to be in it with other actors and mixing it up and talking about this stuff and like just own it like some other actors like are apologizing for what they are it's like it's a silly profession but there are a lot of silly professions just be what you are embrace your freak flag yeah i mean i think i understand why people

make fun of it because when you become self-important about it i think when you become self-important about anything it's kind of like then when ego starts to take precedence over craft right and uh but when you i always go back to that's why i keep saying it's so fucking fun because it's not about being better than anybody it's not about being self-important it's just about what brings you joy and It's fucking fun to me. So that's why I dweeb out on it, just because of the phone out of it. Speaking about the dweaving out in the last year, when we've been looking for comfort, I've been asking folks to select some of their favorite comfort movies.

A movie that I got from you is our second Paul Thomas Anderson selection. Would you like to reveal your selection for a favorite comfort movie and why you went there? Boogie Nights, baby. Oh, my God. Love it. I mean, it's my number one favorite movie of all time. I love everything about it. The thing that I obviously, is I'm an actor.

The thing I look for most in the movie is good acting. And like the performances in that are so, so good. Every character, right? And it's interesting because there's this trend that happens these days. I think that I think my shrink calls it, like she said, like, we can be dumb because we're smart, which is kind of like, like when you're above a certain character, when you're out, when you're in a higher socioeconomic class, you're in a higher educational class and you choose to play sort of the lower, what's perceived of the lower class, but you do it

almost with irony, like as if it's fun, how fun we can be these people. I think it's very easy to fall into that. I think I've probably done that before because it's, it's hard. And I think Boogie Nights doesn't do that. Yeah. I don't see. Or Hoffman is not above that character, judging that character. He is. Not at all. It's not, it's not doing it ironically. It's not like, oh, we're pretending we're Midwesterners when really we're like this. No, it's all heart. It's a heart and dick, my two favorites. Do you remember the first time you saw it? By my math, you would have been about 15 years old. Oh, I didn't see it when it first came out. Okay. Yeah, I saw it. I saw Magnolia before I saw Boogie Nights. Magnolia was my foray into Paul Thomas Anderson. That's quite a dip into

the world of Paul Thomas Anderson. That's my favorite. I mean, I know everyone, I mean, Boogie Nights is up there. Have you seen it recently? I have because Zachary Quinto on the previous episode chose it as his comfort movie. It's an odd comfort movie, Magnolia. I don't know if it goes down easy, but talked from the acting perspective, like most of PTA's films, my God, like the performances in Magnolia, it's like the best Tom Cruise performance he's ever given. Yes, it was because of Magnolia that I looked into. I was like, oh, I like this movie. Let's see what some other movies are. And out of all Paul Thomas Anderson's movie, I still like Boogie Knights the best. Just like in solo, My piece has a lot of tragedy, but has a lot of comedy in it, too.

Another thing I love about Boogie Nights is that there's a lot of humor in it. And I think anything, I think comedies are best served when they have a little bit of depth, and I think dramas need to have a little bit of levity. And I think Boogie Nights gets that balance. It's got my favorite actor, Paul Thomas, or not Paul Thomas, Philip Seymor Hoffman, another guy with three names. Mark Wahlberg was terrific. I mean, everybody, everybody is so good in that.

And like, it just, it's shot beautifully, that first oneer going through the club, going from the sign down into the club, Roller Girl's butt twitching, and then it slows down. You tell how many times I've seen this movie when it gets to Mark Wahlberg, putting the dish tray in the dishwasher. And it's like, oh, so many scenes, Roller Girl, like, with, like, smacks me that guys, don't ever disrespect me going back to her high school years like everything that movie's fucking dope man love it did Lorraine ever bring that up on hustlers there's a bit of the vibe a bit of a bit of a I feel like there's an influence there's that lineage of Scorsese to PTA to

hustlers for sure I think I think the whole thing I said before about like not being above the characters and playing them as if it's fun and joke and ironic um I think she really like wanted just to want it to really be in it. And I think she approached it with a lot of love instead of like making fun of them. And I think that's, I mean, yeah, Lurine definitely did, and I love Lillian, I love working with her. And she definitely talked about that. And she also talked to me more about like some documentaries of, like pathological liars because not that not that destiny is a liar but she covers a lot and so

that was it was interesting i remember what right before we started filming that was when those fire festival documentaries came out oh my god and i was like oh my god i was fascinated with that guy and then with a guy who gave the blow jobs for the water i mean like what a beautiful innocent time right before the horrible year of 2020 it was like the last fun we all had it happened Yeah, you know, and it was crazy. It was like crazy that you would do that, but also crazy that he would like go on campus. What? I was like, all right, man, good for you, man. And like, but like, I mean, just fascinating. And I remember Loeen was really like, we were really talking a lot about like characters like that. I love it. Yeah. Have you ever met,

PTA? Have you ever auditioned for a Paul Thomas Anderson film? no i've tried no harm in that go for go for it no like before i mean i think before fresh off the boat there was like before i was like you know i had any type of visibility right when i was still a waitress there were like a couple i would hear about like certain paul thomas sanderson movies and i would like back my eyes like oh my god please could have an audition and they'll be like we're trying but they won't like they're only seeing like a certain number of people or they already offered it to this person. I think I went so far as to, there was one job where I went so far as I didn't even have a script. I just like made it up and I like put myself on tape.

I made up like an audition. And then I was like, send this to them. And I, they never saw it, you know, because you can tell on your video click count whether or not somebody has seen it. So I don't think that's Paul Thomas Anderson's fault. I think it's, you know, whoever, whatever assistant that my agent's assistant emailed it, too, like, whatever. It just didn't get there. But yes, I have very much tried and not been able to audition for anything. It's good for the record, PTA, if you're listening to this, she's not holding it against you. It was someone in between. And yes, she kept clicking refresh on that Vimeo and it hurts, but it wasn't you. that's real nerdy to admit but i was checking refresh on that vimeo i think i checked it even years later i was like maybe nobody will fucking watch that shit you mentioned the infamous um you know waiting tables which many an actor have done uh fresh off the boat comes in what around 2015 do i have that right um i don't know they all blend together these but but but i guess my

my question is when did when was your last gig outside of acting like when ended that part of your life and when you like could just really commit and make a living solely as an actor? Pretty much right before fresh off the boat. Well, right, but like the season before fresh off the boat, I did a pilot for Amazon actually that didn't get picked up called browsers where I played like a pothead. And that was fun. It didn't get picked up. So after that things were sort of okay but then right before i got that pothead well i um i wasn't a waitress anymore but for about a year i did uh i did like odd babysitting and nannying jobs right and i did that for about a year and then uh and then i got browsers the thing where i played the stoner and um and then

after that i got fresh off the boat and then um i don't i i haven't had to go back to waitressing since then but if i had to it wouldn't be that big of a deal you enjoyed it it sounds like yeah no i i you know it's not necessarily what i bye she's going out for a walk um it's not necessarily what i like set out to do but i had a lot fun doing it like yeah you don't be in a restaurant like the shit the drink shift drink at the end of the night with like your fellow servers it's like you all have been through a war zone on days when you're in the weeds and it's kind of like I don't know there's something nice about it that I'm glad. Were you seeing actors or directors or filmmakers or were you ever trying to like make a

connection? Is that is that a faux pot to try to like hey I'm also an actor you might want to check this out? I wish I had the guts to do that but I didn't only you only one time it happened actually and it was like really and i didn't instigated it was actually really sweet it was adam sandler actually so i waited on adam sandler and he like started like making conversation with me a little bit about being an actor and we had a small connection because when i went to lees strasper theater institute my teacher there geoffrey when i had talked about being adam sandler's teacher no kidding and so i was like oh my god you and me we both had geoffrey at least Strasbourg and we were like oh my god and then he was like well in doing this movie if you like

want audition for it and i was like yeah like totally and he was like well call this number and you know we'll set something up and he gave me a number and i was like oh my god this is maybe this is bullshit or like whatever but to adam sandwich credit that was his assistance number and i told him what adam said and he was like yeah let me uh give me your number and i'm going to give this casting director and we'll schedule an audition and they did schedule an audition for like a small part in one of his comedies. And, you know, I didn't get the part. But, like, that was, I mean, how generous and nice of him.

But I didn't, I didn't instigate that. He was the one who was like, and then having the Jeffrey connect from the Strasbourg was fun. Amazing. Yeah, he lives up to his great reputation. Yes. I know you've talked about, you know, between crazy rich Asians and fresh off the boat, if anything, like they were both huge, you know, cultural. moments in addition to being, you know, projects that resonated in many different ways with people

that, in a way, almost fresh off the boat was the more revolutionary one at the time. I guess my question is like, when you're in it, for you, it's not about like, I would expect when you get that gig, it's not like, we're breaking barriers down, we're doing that. Like, you have a gig, you have a job. You have the biggest job of your career. Like, I mean, is that, are you, do you have that second site at the time? Are you also thinking in these cultural terms, like, yes, we are breaking boundaries down and this is going to be amazing? Or is it like, no, this is the best gig I've ever had. You know, if it happened now, I think I might have more of awareness.

I think then, since when you're younger, there's just so much noise that it's hard to really hear anything. And the noise is not only what other people are saying, but it's like your own insecurities about yourself and like your fears of possibilities of the future. you know, whatever might be happening in your, like, personal relationships at the time. There's just a lot of noise that, like, I feel like my 20s, I was just hanging on, you know, like into like my early 30s, but just when I got fresh off the boat.

So at the time, like, there's a lot of relief because, you know, you've been pounding the pavement for so long. You've been, like, barely scraping by financially. And then you have this opportunity. And yes, it's like a big cultural moment. and you hear that noise, but then you hear noise from, like, critics and naysayers, and then you hear noise from, like, your family and then your friends, and then, like, your own worries about, like, yourself as an artist, and it's, it takes a lot of being in a noisy environment to learn how you yourself find your, like,

internal quiet within that noise. So there was just too much noise at the time for me to know anything that was going on. I was just, like, a young, new... This is my first network show. The only other thing I had done before fresh off the boat was on network was a couple lines of dialogue on order. Even the Amazon pilot had been on Amazon, and that was their first year they had done pilots. I had no experience. Many people at least have a failed pilot that they could draw experience.

I had nothing. I didn't even have a guest star, you know? So there was a lot of anxiety about that. And I feel very lucky that I'm somewhat out, you know, somewhat unscaped, not totally, somewhat. I'm scathed, gives me character I like to tell myself. Well, you segue into something that I don't necessarily want to need to, like, dig into, but you've talked very openly how like, you know, and obviously from this conversation, you're very candid, you're very open, you'll say what you feel and it's very refreshing.

And like, obviously the fresh off the boat Twitter thing obviously became a thing, right? And I'm sure, and you talked about it and had regrets about it. But I guess my question is the lessons learned from something like that. And does it color, unfortunately, like, looking back at the experience on fresh off the boat in any way? Or can you kind of separate like that shitty moment from what was a great run and a pivotal run in your career? Yeah, I think it's, like I said before, it's all about. context and um i actually think that it makes me more grateful for it because just like i think in one of my other interviews like the journalist was like uh which was quoting brian

stevenson who wrote just mercy and she was saying like you are not the worst thing you ever did and i was like yeah you're also not the best thing you ever did right so i think you. That moment really became a, I mean, I think the hardest times in your life are the best because you learn about yourself so much from them. And I am, I am richer for that experience. Am I more popular for that experience? Probably not. Okay. Like, that's okay, though. But like, like, in terms of what I'm going to my soul and knowing who I am. and like, and just like growing, I am richer for that experience. And yeah, and then you have to recalibrate and feel like, oh, well, you know what?

I'm not more popular for that experience, but like was popularity your reason for getting into this? Is that the thing that feeds you? It's actually not. It is for some people. But for me, you know, I don't get psyched if I'm not on social media anymore, but I don't it's psyched by more social media follows. What do I get dwebbed out by singing musical theater songs on a bus? Like that's what gets me fucking psyched, right? And so, yeah, it's a, there's a way to

look at it in which it doesn't seem like the best thing. And there's a way to look at it where it's just like how incredibly clarifying and like going through hard stuff like that. How much richer are you for learning about yourself and like your reactivity and what it's spraying from and who and how it can inform who you become, you know, and I'm not having a very measured response to it now. I don't always feel that way, but that's what's fun about being human, right? You change. Not a robot. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah. So, but that's sort of how I think about it today is that is that, is that, yeah, it's all part of this big thing called life. Your references the musical theater throughout. I'm guessing you're more likely to end up in a big movie musical at this point than the next Star Wars or Marvel movie. That's what you're, that's what, yeah?

Oh, yeah, that's what I'm fucking trying for me. I keep saying like, okay, these scripts are great, but where's my fucking musical? That's what I really want. And I want, but it has to have really good music. is there a classic musical that hasn't been done for the big screen that you dream of doing that hasn't been done for the big screen or remade obviously there's west side story is being remade everyone thinks being remade so oh well there was one that i really wanted the audition

where i didn't get so i don't want to like taints you know that one and the the wonderful actress who got that uh but oh gosh you know honestly i love a lot of the classics like i love rogers I'm trying to a guy that loves guys and dolls. I'm waiting for the next guys and dolls version on the big screen. Dude, like Adelaide, I'm here for that. You would totally kill Adelaide.

Are you kidding me? Yes, I would. Thank you very much. Oh, my God. I want to do Adelaide like nobody's business. She's got such great numbers. And she has all that stuff. She's comedic,

but she's a lot of depth turks. She's got some fucking dreams, man, you know? but yeah anything with with good music i i just i yeah i love good music so that's that's my dream role is is a great it's to do great musicals all right well i think judging it from the last few years we're not that far off because from the first part of our conversation uh every role in the last five years has been vastly different from the one proceeding it which speaks to your passion and interest in every in exploring all facets of a that They don't write that many musicals these days.

So this year alone, got West Side Story, got In The Heights, got Tick, Tick, Boom. It's the movie musicals are doing good. You're going to get yours. That's like four. I mean, there are more of those than rom-coms in big theaters. I'm trying to be positive for you, Constance. Thank you. Oh, no, you know what?

I need to take some of that. You know what? I've got some time. I've got to find my musical, but that's my great dream. I love musical. Oh, and I love Shakespeare. too, so we'd love to do Shakespeare. There you go.

Ken Brana, you know where to find Constance Wu. Let's do something. Yeah, I've geeked out on, back when I was like 16, I went to see his four and a half hour Hamlet in the theater. So like I'm going to do. Yeah. That's another conversation. We'll do Shakespeare next time.

I played Ophelia. What's that? I played Ophelia. Did you back in school? In my conservatory, yeah, we did a production game when I played Ophelia. Amazing. You sucked or it sucked. That experience wasn't the...

Let's not end on that down note. Let's think positive. Again, big movie musical, coming Constant Woo's way. This has been a joy, honestly. I love geeking out with an actor who just loves the business, or not the business, the art, loves talking acting, and clearly you do. You've been killing it, and I know you're going to continue to kill it.

Everybody should check out solos on Amazon Prime and other amazing performance. And stay well. Congratulations on the new... Yeah. You stay well, too. Thank you very. much. Have a great day. And so ends

another edition of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh. Goodbye, summer movies,

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