Happy Sad Confused - Corey Hawkins

Episode Date: January 7, 2022

New year. New guest. We start the year with a fresh young talent on the podcast in the person of Corey Hawkins! Whether it's Shakespeare ("The Tragedy of Macbeth") or musicals ("In The Heights"), Corey can seemingly do it all! He joins Josh to recount his journey from DC to Julliard to today. Don't forget to check out the Happy Sad Confused patreon here! We've got exclusive episodes of GAME NIGHT, video versions of the podcast, and more! For all of your media headlines remember to subscribe to The Wakeup newsletter here! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now. Today on Happy, Sad Confused, Corey Hawkins on Shakespeare and Musicals. Hey, guys, I'm Josh Harowitz. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Happy New Year, guys. Sorry for the delay. If you listen to the podcast and you're like, wait, every Tuesday or Wednesday, the podcast comes up.

And you're like, what happened? Josh is slacking off. it's the new year guys things are a little slow as we come back but trust me there's so much coming up there are so many really exciting guests that i want to tell you about that i'm not going to tell you about just yet but suffice it to say whew good good stuff coming your way and we're starting it off with a great conversation with an actor that i've had my eye on for a while so talented cori hawkins you probably first saw him as dray in straight out of compton But since then, has really been mixing it up in a fantastic way, doing a lot of stage work, TV, film, Kong Skull Island to six degrees of separation.

Like, it's a very varied resume, and nothing speaks to it more than the two films he's had out in the last few months. In the Heights, he was Benny, he was fantastic and charming and charismatic and all the things you want out of a leading man in a movie musical, just killed it in that and showed off a new side of him. And now, speaking of new sides of him, get to see him do some full-on Shakespeare opposite no less than Francis McDormand and Denzel Washington in the tragedy of Macbeth. This is an adaptation written and directed by Joel Cohen. Now, guys, I mean, the Coen brothers are there. They are the top of the mountain for me. I worship at the altar of the Coen brothers.

This is Joel Cohen's first solo outing as a filmmaker. So I was very curious. I highly recommend this one. Of course, it's, you know, you may think. think, oh, this is a change of pace, A, because it's just Joel, B, because it's Shakespeare, you'll see when you see it, the themes are actually very resonant with a lot of their work, and it is just exceptional acting from start to finish, a really unique, kind of fun, cool, production design approach to shooting this. It's in gorgeous black and white. Check it out on Apple TV

Plus. And, you know, as I said, you got Denzel and Francis as the leads, but you also have folks like Corey Hawkins and the haunting Catherine Hunter who's getting some awards attention as well and justifiably so. This is a great chat with Corey. I just haven't really ever had a chance to get to know him like this and you'll be charmed by him five minutes in. Good head on his shoulders. Just so talented and whatever. Just clearly a good guy. So very happy for him and all his success and a lot of cool stuff by the way in the future to come for him. He's going to go off to shoot the color purple movie, the musical movie adaptation of that soon. So continued success to the great Corey Hawkins. Other things to mention, I don't know, let's see,

2022, here we are. I don't know about you. I spent some of the holidays catching up on TV. I mean, I've seen most of the big award stuff right now, film-wise, but I took the break to really watch a lot of TV. I loved, you know, I had McKenzie Davis on for a brief chat on the podcast recently, But at that time, I'd only seen the first two or three episodes of Station 11. Now I think I'm through seven or eight. I'm really loving that one. I'm watching Yellow Jackets right now, guys. Highly recommend that.

And then I caught up on the stuff that everybody's seen. I saw the new season of Succession and Cobra Kai and Curb. So, yeah, this was a good opportunity to catch up on some of the great TV out there. Oh, I finally saw Squid Game. I'm the last guy on the planet to see Squid Game. It was good. That's my review. It was really good.

I dug it. Disturbing stuff, but I guess I'm a disturbing guy. What can I say? Okay. Let's go right into our first conversation of 2022. This is me and the exceptionally talented Corey Hawkins, a man with a bright, bright future. Again, check out the Tragedy Macbeth on Apple TV Plus.

Check out in the Heights if you haven't already. And at the very least, check out this great chat. Here's me and Corey. It is my distinct pleasure to welcome Mr. Corey Hawkins to Happy Second Fused. A big fan of your work, man. Thanks for taking the time today. Appreciate it. Thank you, Josh. Good to be with you, man. So, look, when you hire Corey Hawkins, you get a lot. You get the song and dance man. You get Shakespeare. There's a big skill set to call upon. And it's all demonstrated in the last year of work that we've seen.

Congratulations on not just like the body of work, but just the diverse kind of work we've seen this past year. You must take a special pride in, like, you've shown many facets of what you can do in the last year to people. Well, I feel like part of it is just trying to prove to myself that I can do it. Like, you know, a lot of it is, especially with the singing and the dance and I was, I was, you know, I was nervous. I mean, a lot of people didn't know that I sang and didn't know that I, you know, could move. you know and then they put me on the side of a building in in a film and said do your best Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers and so but it's it's a joy to like go from that to you know the stage and then go from that to you know doing a play on film or an adaptation of a play on

show you know with Macbeth and I just you know for me I appreciate the the sort of being able to stretch, man, and just do different stuff. And so, again, surprise myself. Yeah. Because that's, like, I'm the biggest critic, you know, up in my head. So, you know, and just keep doing stuff I love. I never trust the folks that aren't self-critical. Those are the ones.

Those are the scary ones that are like, oh, yeah, I got this. Totally. Yeah. The people who are like, yeah, there's no problem. I'm like, okay. But not to be nervous. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

And not only that, though, but like just like hanging with the heavy weights in every respect, whether it's, it's Lin-Manuel Miranda and John Chu, who's exceptional, that kind of filmmaking and Denzel and Francis and Joel. I mean, this is, this is, you know, you're spoiling yourself. You're setting the bar high for 2022 and beyond, which I guess is what you want to do, but it's, uh, yeah, it's going to be tough to follow. Yeah, I told my reps that too. I was like, you know, my, my thing is like, again, it's just finding projects and people that I love and people that I enjoy being around. And another thing is like, not only am I working with these legends, but the people that

are in front of me, the Denzel's and the Francis and the Joel's, like, and Lynn, John Chu, these are people who put themselves outside of their comfort zones purposefully and to sort of see, you know, and especially with Denzel and Francis and Joel, they don't have to do what they're doing, you know? They could literally put it down and hang it up and would still be considered, in my opinion, you know, some of the greatest artists of our time. Yeah, Denzel can do 12 more equalizer films and just retire on that. Like, he does nothing about it.

Exactly. Exactly. But Dee won't do that. Like, that's the crazy thing is that he will continue. And he, you know, he talks to me about this all the time is like working with directors and artists that you trust. You have to trust the pilot. You have to.

Every time we get on a plane, you would implicitly trust the pilot, you know. you don't think about it. And so it just, and he trusts that the pilot is going to challenge him to go to even further heights, you know, in his career. And so that's what it was for me, too. It was like, I got to trust these creators who I'm putting myself in the room with and decide if I want to spend not only time working together, but then you got to talk about the film, you know, you want to be proud of it. So, yeah. It's a great rule of thumb that you kind of allude to. And this comes up a lot in conversations with actors and filmmakers over the years is like, I always look back to you.

Like the folks that I kind of grew up with, like, you know, like the big movie star of my childhood among many was like Tom Cruise. And if you look at Tom Cruise and you look at and you kind of study his career, he like associated himself with like Scorsese and Oliver Stone. And just like in that prime period went after filmmakers. And even like a decade or 15 years later, look at what Leo's done. Leo Scorsese and like every the top like just surround yourself with smart people and they're going to make you look great. If you if you've got the chops, just surround yourself with people to have the chops. so yeah yeah people who are going to literally you know who are going to challenge you like that's the thing it's like that you know and then people that you just like being around where there's a

shorthand and that's the great thing with joel is that he he he keeps the same people around them same actors same you know troop and and that's sort of what what it's about us sort of finding um finding a truth you know and finding finding the people who um who speak the same who speak the same language and want the same things out of the art that you're creating that you want, you know? So, so since we have the luxury of time, let's go back a little bit to your, to your beginnings. In your family, are you the unicorn? Are you the latest in a line of people that pursued the arts? Like, where do you fit into the scheme of things? I'm a bit of a, I want to say unicorn because I'm, you know, I'm doing the thing. But I would say my family

is a very dramatic. Whether they're being paid for it or not, they're dramatic. Whether they're being paid for it or not. They'll give you 100%. Always. And the good and the bad, of course, with every family. And I love them. I mean, my grandmother, she has a lot of brothers and sisters

and they all grew up singing. And so I grew up hearing, you know, they'd be the trio over here and the quartet over here at holidays, they'd be singing battles and, you know, with gospel music or whatever, you know, that was. So I grew up with creative people around me, you know, but also my grandfather was a pragmatic, like he was very, you know, it still is very, you know, not strict, but, but I would say, you know, he was the tough one. You know what I mean? He reminded me that, yeah, that's all well and good, but get your butt to school and get your grades up and all of that kind of

stuff. So it sounds like you're definitely like we all are a product of both sides in a way. Yes. I mean, you've got the, obviously the artistic chops and interest, but there is a pragmatism. Anybody that goes to Juilliard is not like just like, you know, they're serious about it. They're like they've got a, they've got a plan. I mean, I hope so. I mean, I'm sorry. I don't know. I hope so. I'm like, you know, you spend that much time and energy pouring into something that, you know, when you graduate may not pour back into you you know and that's the it's a huge risk and gamble to take and um you know it it definitely paid off of me and i'm not talking about just you know success in that sense but paid off of me in terms of like i found a passion and i found yeah being able to express myself in ways

that um that that feeds me and hopefully you know feed someone else if if that art speaks to them you know i think the first time i think i actually saw you was it was on stage actually i saw the Romeo and Juliet production here in New York. I saw Orlando Bloom come out on stage on a motorcycle. On a motorcycle with fire and sand and birds flying around.

It was interesting production. Yes, it was. It was. But I guess my point I was trying to make was like you love theater, clearly. Like this, you're a creature of the theater. You've done a lot of it in your career. And I'm curious, like, did that, was that something that you came to

as you kind of found your path? Or was that, like, were you exposed to theater growing up? Or did it only kind of come after you started to study it and realize, like, this is a home for me? I think it, I knew what it was, but we didn't grow up going to the theater. And I grew up in D.C., and there was a lot of good theater in Washington, D.C.,

even at the time. And a lot of great theater artists who came out of there at that time. But I wasn't, I just wasn't where my focus was. I just didn't know about it. I wasn't exposed to it. I didn't know Shakespeare. I didn't know the classics. By the time I went to high school, I did go to an arts high school. That's when I really started to understand what it was, but performing, again, was still sort of at school. You know, it was due gallant to that huge, you know, that performing arts mecca, you know, and I was surrounded with a lot of people who looked like me. So not only were we artists at the time doing the thing,

but we were artists who came from the same parts of the city and different parts of the area, and we all looked the same. So we were all in it together, and classics for us wasn't necessarily Chekhov, Amoya, or, you know, O'Neill or Shakespeare. It was, you know, everything from, you know, Hansberry to, you know, even incorrectly. Like, we were like, like, you know, just that far into sort of things, that just sort of spoke to us and we were.

So it wasn't until I left then and I was like, oh, wait, you know. It even took a year after, I didn't go straight out of high school to Juilliard. So it took a year after to sort of fall into it and say, you know what, maybe I can make this my life. Maybe I can follow this path and see where it takes me, you know? So what was the initial prior to Juilliard, as I understand it? You did go out to L.A. and was the plan just like, I'm going to see if I can do pilots or do whatever or just kind of like, Like, did you have a goodest thing plan or was it sort of just haphazard? Well, that was, that was kind of my sneaky plan, but the, the, the, the, the, but I ended up going to

college because, of course, my grandfather was like, I want you to be one of the first, you know, the first, you know, the first graduate in this of college, you know, and so I was like, okay, well, then I'm going to go to a college in Los Angeles. That's a little more free and liberal and, you know, and, and, and, and so that was my thing. And I ended up realizing quickly that that wasn't where my path was supposed to leave me for several reasons. And I also just think I was too young, too far away from home, to really appreciate what that place at the time was given me. And I told everybody, I was just crazy. I was just like, you know what, I'm going to just audition for Juilliard and put all my eggs in one basket and go for it

because that's how much I believe in myself and in my talent. And I'm going to spend the money to fly up and go do this and audition and, you know, and put it out there. And when you do that, the universe really, and I believe this, like the universe shapes around what your goals are. And you just got to continue pushing that forward, you know. That must be as pivotal. And as I think about it, as you describe that, as pivotal a moment in your life as any,

getting any gig is getting the letter or call that you're in Juilliard because I mean people know I mean people that listen to this podcast probably know like just how exclusive we're talking about and like just how I've talked to you know

many an actor whether it's like Chastain or Oscar Isaac or Anthony Mackey you know I mean it's Adam Drive it's where you want to be do you remember getting in was it a moment was it a validation I remember the spot I was standing in

in the parking lot I remember I was in the parking lot of my of the college that I was at and I didn't have a car I was just I missed the call and then I was like oh god you know I got to get away because I don't want to be around people when I find out that I didn't get in right um and and I got the I got the call and I remember all of the people who told you know how you hear people like oh everyone told you wouldn't do it you people literally told me that I wasn't going to get in because it is a very um challenging program. It's a hard program. Thousands and thousands of kids audition to get into

that program. And they only accepted. My year was the first time they only accept 18. At first it was bigger and then they cut the number down. And so that was even more like the reason I was like, well, take a shot. And I remember that. I remember vividly. I saw the path. There were like two parallel paths. And I was like, this is the path. And if I stay on this path, that's okay. That's Okay, but I know if I get into Juilliard, I can, that's going to, you know, and so it, uh, thinking back on it, I'm, I'm, I'm just, had I not taking that chance, I wouldn't be talking to you right now. That's like, I wouldn't be where I am. Oh, maybe I would. And it just be a different version of that. But, um, you know, talk about fate and, and everything that sort of aligns. Did it suit you? Did Juilliard suit you? Because again, it's a rigorous program. It's not for the, it's not for everybody. It isn't. It isn't. And it wasn't. And it wasn't. my very first year. It wasn't. It wasn't what I thought it was going to be. Me and a few of my classmates who were in my class at a time, we just did not like the first year at all. And it was not because of our teachers. It was just the work, the kind

of work. I mean, we were grown. We thought we were grown. Adults, you know, rolling around on floors, you know, pretending to be animals. Like, I was like, what? am I doing like what is going on and and you know when you look back on it it was that ultimately ended up changing for me I think after my second year I realized how all of that specificity and craziness and quirkiness plays a role in in the rest of the training and how you can always call on that even subconsciously unconscious whatever that is and it was a new level of appreciation for that part of training and just the idea of training too

it's like what are we working towards you know what are we doing here well not to mention I know like they also correct me if I'm wrong they don't they don't want you doing work like outside of Juilliard during the program and you must just be chomping at the bit you're in New York you're in the heart of it all you're like I got into

Juilliard I got the stuff I got the wrong material let me let me out of the yeah that's so right man you see you sort of start to see like you're seeing all these great shows all these incredible plays you're rubbing shoulders with the greats i mean i remember in that time in my first year meeting cissy tyson and like just you know being able to be surrounded with all of these legends and you know from felicia rash and you know the wilson vet august wilson vets and i just remember man like i was like oh i'm chopping at the bit but also first year's reminding me that maybe i'm not as good as i

thought I was because once you get into the program, you realize, and you never auditioned for any roles while you're there, too. They just cast you, which was weird. I was like, okay, sure, go with the program because they want to push you outside of things that you feel right for. Again, pushing you out your comfort zone. And so that was great for me. And then, yeah, just being able to, you realize all the things that you don't know. And so it sort of puts the breaks on it a little bit, you know, the outside world. And then you go, okay, I see the process. I see what to Ed. I see what the, okay. And now I'm ready to graduate and step into a freshman year of life, you know. So you get to a freshman year of life. You've got this degree.

You've got the degree under your belt. Still a couple years before Compton, the big break, straight out of Compton. And in that time frame, you do, you do Broadway, do Romeo and Juliet. You do, I believe you do the Lee Mason film. You do the bit in Iron Man 3. So you're working. Yeah. Like, where are you at in your head? Are you up for big things? Are you kind of not even getting in the room for the big stuff yet or what? No, I was, I was, I knew the cast and directors in New York. That's the other thing. It's like knowing cast and directors and just, you know, becoming fans of theirs and then becoming fans of yours. And that's the great part about being in New York. Right. So, so there was that. And then also, there's just a lot of off-Broadway work. And the great part about Juilliard is that we knew. they bring a lot of directors from the outside in New York who want to work with Juilliard students or who want to get experience.

And those directors and writers who we work with are out in the world. I'm talking Sam Gold, who I work with in Juilliard. And, you know, I wasn't thinking much of it, but, you know, I realized the genius that was there. Talking Cotori Hall, you know what I mean? And Hurt Village. That was one of my first plays out of school

having workshopped it at Juilliard. And so, you know, just hitting the boards and then also, you know, still bagging groceries at the grocery store and trying to like pay the rent and living in a $350 a month apartment, which was really a five-bedroom, felt like a frat house, with rotating characters. And, you know, $350 a month in the middle of Harlem, you can imagine what that gets you. So it was, which, by the way, I didn't leave it even until after Compton came out. So, like, I was like, I'm holding none of this. Yeah. So jumping ahead to Compton, to shooting that one, which, you know, it's just a, clearly just a charmed production, a very special kind of production. A unique production, though, for, obviously, for many reasons.

Not only you're playing Dre, but Dre is, as I recall, producer on it, very actively involved in it. on set i would imagine a fair amount i can't think of many more intimidating ways to shoot a role than to have dray watching you play him man he was there every day and like take a break you can take day off yeah i was like you know come on man you know but i mean every day just in terms of from production that's how much he cared about this story him and cube and cube even when he wasn't able to be there because he was shooting in florida i remember they him on a computer with his face like just sitting there and he was just watching and I just was like man like mad respect like to these guys who believe in it legacy and want that story to be

told and told well and told right and also Dre was literally in the you know press at the time for everything he was doing and with Apple and with beats and so it was it was really it was really special man like i was i was like just blessed to to be able to step into that and prior to that you know all the producers were like well you know we got this trained juliar actor coming in to you know and and it's it's crazy how sometimes um and it wasn't dray or cuban and like they believed in me you know what i mean they believed him wanted all of us to succeed it was the suits you know it was everyone else who has opinions about, you know, the boxes that the actors should be placed in. And I love being the underdog, so I love being able to be like, okay, I'm going to show you

better than I can tell you, you know. Did it change things noticeably very quickly after the box office and the critical reception? Did you suddenly find yourself in different kinds of rooms, different kinds of meetings? I think so. I think so. And it's funny how that works, you know, you become an overnight sort of success. I mean, relatively speaking, it is, you know, a few years. out of school. It is overnight now. You know, let's not kid myself. But I look at it as a marathon. And so while it came really quickly and everything changed. I mean, I was like I couldn't walk into a room in L.A. or a restaurant in L.A. without, you know, without, you know, having that sort of thing. And for all of us, we weren't used to it, that fame and that quickly. And,

It took some grounding. And thankfully, you know, like I said, my friends, my family, we're all very grounded folks. And, you know, they'll remind you real quick where you come from. So, you know, but it was, but it also, it opened doors because it allowed me to say a lot of things did start to come in. But I'd always been picky anyway. So even when I was living in that $350 apartment, I was, you know, I was, I was, I was,

and I was like, nah, I don't know if I want to go do that series or that did it. My ages were like, oh, my God. Just take the job. Take the job, you know. But they were along for the ride with me, so they trusted and believed in that we, you know. But being choosy and cautious about the things that you put out into the world, that was important for me at the time.

And so I was like, yeah, man, like that, that's, let's see where this takes us. But I'm not interested in the quick, quick up and up to the top path, you know. I'm curious. Yeah, I mean, it's, it's funny to see just how you've navigated all this. Because, yeah, then I think of, like, I guess the first, like, big, quote, quote, big scale kind of filmmaking you were part of was a supporting role in Kong Skull Island, which seems like. And I know some folks that were involved in that. And it sounded like a bit, like a production, like a kind of a mad production in some ways to reflect a little bit of the vibe of the film. Jordan's an interesting character, the filmmaker, I know. I don't know, what are the first recollections when you think of like being halfway around the world shooting something like that with that company of actors? Well, I got to do with my brother Jason, who was on content with me. So that was fun. Again, like we, all I remember that process was just fun.

It was my first time going overseas. It was my first time really, like, you know, working with Sam Jackson. It was like my uncle, you know, Jordan. You know, we enjoy, I enjoyed the process. I mean, we had a great, great time. But it was a complicated and incredibly complicated shoot. But the film ended up being really, really cool. You know what I mean?

And so, but it was something that, again, you know, sometimes it's like the one for me, one for them, whatever that means. Right. But really, it was, again, the cast. Like Sam Jackson, I'm playing John Goodman's mentee, you know. So I'm rocking with John Goodman, who was great because I got to talk to him again about working with Joel and on like that. It was really cool to stay, you know, keeping in contact with him.

But yeah, like that John C. Riley, I mean, Brie Larson, Tom Hiddlest, you know, I mean, it was just, it was like, whoa, like here's a troop of people. And the character was really cool and different from what I did in Compton. You know, this like nerdy, intelligent guy who, you know, comes up with the theory, hollow earth theory for Kong. I mean, like, for King Kong and God's it. Like he originated that. Now thinking back on it, I'm like, whoa, that's kind of cool. But, you know, at the time, it was just fun. And it was a good time.

And I did learn, I will say, F. Gary Gray taught us how to be leading men. You know, he gave us, I know, you know, those are bigger films afterwards, but Compton gave us the confidence that we needed to step into a room full of people who don't look like us and feel comfortable being collaborators in a process. and watching F. Gary Gray work and how he works, his specificity because I don't think people understand the craft that he put into that film.

You know, sometimes you see a film like comp and you're like, oh, that's just easy. That comes to them. And it's like, no, no, no, no, no. That's work and sweat. And so I'm just, I'm thankful to him for giving me that opportunity because then I can take that to Kong.

I can take that to whatever role after, you know. He's one of those filmmakers that I think is underrated. He'll get the film. you're like oh he he kind of can do anything like he can kind of make any kind of movie bro bro like anything and he has like that's the thing the scale you know and the people he's work with uh man it was just uh i was like you know but anytime i'm in a process i'm always like i forget like i kind of forget that like i'm working with these like incredible people you know but that's a comment

more on them because that's the kind of environment they said you know so let's talk a little bit more about the two projects that have come in the last year. We kind of alluded to them and talked a little bit about them already, but let's style a little deeper because they're both worthy of it. In the heights, I thought it was extraordinary. John Chu, the filmmaker, has been on the podcast a couple times, and I'm just such a fan of his work and clearly just, like, poured his heart and soul into this.

It must have been a little bit agonizing. I mean, look, obviously, there are bigger issues of the last couple years we've all dealt with, but you guys were sitting on this for so long. You shot this a couple years back. You knew it was, you had to feel. that in your heart. Did it feel like anti-climactic by the time it came out or did it feel cathartic? Like, what do you recall of like finally this past summer of releasing it out into the world?

And I, it was so well received. And I know the box office, maybe it wasn't what everybody wanted. But just going to be your post-mortem on where in the Heights sits with you now. Post-mortem for me implies that it's sort of, you know, I feel like that long term. You know what I mean? It lives. For me, I just like, let's analyze the body. No, no, no. I feel like for me, it's still like, you know, it lives on in such a beautiful way. And it lives on, you know, the fact that you could bring that and then bring it inside people's homes in a time when, you know, we needed that vaccine shot of hope and joy, you know, like we needed to breathe and see people dancing and outside on a screen, even if we're home on a screen watching it.

And it came at like such a, you know, we had been sitting on it. It was like a little baby. We were like, ah, and then it, you know, got postponed. But again, nothing trumps what we went through these past two years. You know what I mean? It's like, that's the sort of reminder, but the beautiful part, again, about what we do is like, I got to be a part of something special that represented a culture that even I didn't know much about. And I lived in the heights at one point, you know, growing up in New York.

So I was like coming up in New York. So I was like, it was special for me to be able to be a part of this and to play, you know, the guy who exists up in the heights. You know what I mean? Benny exists there and has these dreams and has these goals and falls in love with that culture and wants to pour into it just as much as it poured into him. And so it's still for a lot of people who I talked to

and I was just overseas shooting and people just love, the film and I'm like oh wow like it translates overseas just as well um but it was it was definitely a special process and moment for me it was an opportunity to kind of like again it was all the craziness that was going on to give give people a gift you know it's like take a moment and smile you know take a moment and look at look at look at life and look at where we are you know and and not to mention I mean there's so many like kind of show stopping moments and sweet moments in the film, but you guys kind of get that kind of transcendent, like, big leap of a scene between you and Leslie, where, as you alluded to earlier, literally dancing on

the side of a building in New York, like something you may have seen in a different kind of a musical, but certainly never in the heights, never in that neighborhood, never in that environment. Did that feel like a big swing at the moment where you're like, yeah, this is going to work or like, wait, what the F am I doing here? What's John? Are you sure it's going to work? Shout out to John Chute, because I remember in the meeting, sitting down and talking

about it. And he showed us the pictures. And I was like, I literally went like this, you know, to John. And I'm like, looking at the picture, I'm like, did they draw it wrong? Like, what's, what is happening here? He's like, no, no, I want to put you and Leslie on the side. Beny and Nina's going to, they're on the side of the building. And it's, it, it ultimately became our Fred and Ginger, you know, an homage, but also it's their version to people who probably don't even know who Fred in Ginger Rogers, you know what I mean? But who, who, that's their vision of love and expression of freedom. And it just was beautiful.

And then I was like, John, you know, that, I was like, that would be great. But, you know, I'm looking forward to see how y'all accomplished that, you know, with the dancers and the stunt people who are going to be doing it. He was like, nah, bro, that's, that's you and Leslie. Exactly. There's you and Leslie up there. There's no getting away from that one. And we got the bumps and bruises and scrapes to prove it actually happened.

And yeah, it was crazy. Like the building literally, they built this thing that was this way. And then it pulls it. And then we're not wearing wires. And then it pulls down this way. And then it goes flat. And then the camera has to go at the same. It was incredible how they did it, man.

And it was one of our last days of shooting, too. So it was a special note to kind of end on. yeah those days where you're like oh i'm in a movie i'm in a movie movie right now must be like kind of kind of awesome yeah it makes you look back and go okay i see all that first year stuff at juilliard right might pay off rolling around pretending to be a a goat now paid off finally exactly on the side of a and now you can say you know back girl leslie has uh has succeeded and has become a full-on superhero so yeah as she as she should and I knew from the moment we met it was one of those it was the first day we met we

were it was like a storybook sort of walking down opposite ends of a windy New York street and we meet up at the at the door and we both put our hands on the door because we lost you know both kind of looking around and and getting the elevator and it's like wait are you you know and I knew she's just special she just and not only that you know her talent it was our first job acting as well too so So to see that freshness and that innocence and just her, just open, she's just such an incredible person and soul. And so I'm lucky to, I was lucky to share the screen with her and my other cast. So speaking of the back girl thing, you can't have any conversation with an actor in

2022 without talking superheroes. Any actor between 18 and 50 has been up for 15 different superhero roles. You were in Iron Man 3. I was. Is your eligibility card up for Marvel? Have you asked Marvel, wait, can I get another shot? Because Navy Op or whoever that guy was, is not enough for me? It was Navy Op.

Wow, it was. Yeah, I mean, I guess Marvel does do the thing where, like, you know, some people appear earlier in different roles. But I'm, again, I'm kind of, I'm, it has to be a right thing, you know? And I, you know, I love, I love the films. Like, I watch all of the films deep from DC to Marvel, you know, comic books, all of that kind of stuff. And, you know, if it's cool and it actually makes sense and then, you know, there's something to say, then cool. Yeah, but, you know, I'm sort of taking my time and just making sure that it's, again, the right thing.

because they, you know, there have been opportunities. And I'm, I'm, I'm just lucky that I'm on the path that I'm on now. Is there, is there one, like, franchise or whatever that, like, the child in you would just lose their mind to be a part of? Like, were you? Oh, like, you mean, like, in terms of, like, an action comic or... Yeah, whatever, you know, whether it's, like, Harry Potter or a specific comic or James Bond or what is, like... It was, it was Mission Impossible, for sure. It was mission impossible for me.

You belong on the IMF team. That could happen. That's totally can happen. I want to run the team. You know, like, that's, I want the Tom, like, I watched Tom Cruise, like, get out of any situation. And again, that brilliant music, the, like, don't, do, do, do, don't, like, that was so cool growing up, man. Like, I was just like, da-da-da, like, I remember rolling around on the floor. Oh, man. I was a geek nerd over the Mission Impossible sort of franchise. And the fact

that it's still going and people still eat it up is a testament to, again, the sort of stardom and the seriousness in which, you know, Tom Cruz and his whole team sort of takes that. I just think it's really fresh and really dope still after all this time. So have you put it out to the team? Like, you know, just let them know if they need a guy to hang off the side of the plane. Yeah. Yeah, I called him. He didn't.

He's still shooting the 8th and 9, 10, 11. He's running on a rooftop somewhere. Exactly. Can't talk right now. Can't talk right now. Yeah. It'll happen. It'll happen.

We're going to secret it out into the universe. On a much different aspect. Okay, we talked a little bit about Mcbeth. But, I mean, the Cohen brothers, I know this is Joel's first solo adding, but the Coen brothers are like basically my favorite filmmakers. Like, I just, they're the best. Um, and this film, I don't know, for folks that have watched a ton of the Conan Brothers work, surprisingly, or maybe not surprisingly, it actually has a lot in common theme wise to a lot of Joel's work in the past. Um, talk to me about, I don't know, like, is it all on the page when you kind of get the, the, the, the script version of this Macbeth. Is it, does it say it's in black and white? Does it say it's, does he say it's going to be shot on sound stages? Like, it's a very specific vision, of course. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think that was the first, first of all again you know creators first obviously you know it's like Joel Denzel

Francis done like there's not there's I will I will literally be a tree in the background in black and white whatever whatever you need me to do um just I don't even have to be in a movie just let me sit in the room and watch the sauce get made I you know it does all have to be on the page and I think again that's that's that's what I mean like in talking about like franchises and all that kind of stuff like it has to be on the page you know what I mean it's not a windfall it's not financial for me at this point it's just if it makes sense and that's the beauty about Joel is he's dutiful in that he's he's you know all they've always just been disciplined about the writing their writing as a team and now you have Joel taking this piece of Shakespeare which is Cohen's before the the Cohen's existed, you know what I mean? And they've always sort of been in sort of conversation with each other, you know?

Like it's like this particular play of Macbeth and you know, the thriller, the sort of noir-esque, the sort of how everything sort of comes back in the end and bites bites in the ass, you know, that's sort of, it's all very much in his will house and yet just enough to again push him outside of his comfort zone, I remember the first time we sat down. He was, Joe was like, you know, you probably know more about this than I do.

And I was like, I was like, me? You talk to me? I don't know. You know, it's just his trust in easygoing sort of nature was really incredible and lent itself to the process of making this movie. Like that whole rehearsal process, man, there was nothing, there's just nothing like it. I just, I pinched myself every time thinking about the fact that. I got to. I'm like, did it really happen? Because the movie feels like a dream escape. You know, I'm like, did I dream all this up? You know, it's just such an incredible opportunity

as an actor to be able to sit in that road with them. So when you, when you have a satisfying day at work doing a scene opposite Denzel, I mean, the guy, like the one that we all put on the pedestal, justifiably so. And you've got some intense stuff, needless to say, as McDuff opposite his Macbeth. I don't know, do you sleep particularly well that night? Do you remember like a certain kind of different satisfaction after completing certain scenes with denzel i would say he makes it so easy to to he gives you everything you need like that's the first thing like that's the one thing about about him and that he's he's generous in his work and generous in his work in the way that like you know if his character has to put up obstacles he's

We will do that. You know, he serves the story and he serves it in a way that makes it so much fun to be opposite him. It makes it, I mean, just even the, even the fight scene at the end, I mean, the way we beat through that. We didn't, me and Dee didn't actually, because he was working on other parts of the film. It was after the shutdown, COVID, you know, it was just, it was a lot. And, and Dee, in my, my first time working with him on that fight was that day right before we started shooting. So. So we beat through that thing In the same way you would be through a scene In the same way you would be through Just understanding why and the how And then we just We let it all go Because we knew we trusted the work

The weeks and weeks of rehearsal To just go in there and allow ourselves And again, there's no words to sort of say Because you know I finished the day And then you start thinking you're like Did I do it right? Did it just go right? did this but um i have to say you know just just getting that nod from from from from denzil

after a scene or you know being able to to say okay you know it's not okay we did that we killed it it's just sort of like you know we we served the story in the way we had to serve it and um i'll never forget you know you know it's just it's just a classic classic moment um i asked you for a, as I've been asking everybody, for a comfort film. And it's from a writer that you referenced earlier. I know you have a bit of a history with a production of this work. Tell me why this one came to mind. What did you choose?

I chose Raisin in the Sun as my, a film that I find comfort in the version, Sydney Poitier, I mean, Diana Sands. Claudia, you know, you're like Ruby D. I just, I literally, when you watch this movie or when I watch this movie, it reminds me that even back then, like, our greats, those were our our greats, you know, and it just, to see, I'd gotten the opportunity to play Walter Lee younger on stage at Juilliard. It was our fourth year production. And prior to that year, they had never done an August Wilson play so they would just sort of start to sort of turn this point

and we were like, we want to do Hansberry. We want to do Lorraine Hansberry and we fought. Like we fought to get it done. And, you know, they were like, yeah, this feels right for your class. And I got to do it with my classmate, Daniel Brooks, you know, who's killing it right now. Yeah, sure.

And Jekina Callagango, Tyrone, Aaron Moten. And for me, to see this film translate it, I'd see that play translated onto film and to live on forever, it's special. It's one of those things where only on film, can you feel the sort of walls closing in on Sidney Poitier? And can you feel that hunger, feel that desire for all of the characters, Ruby D's characters as well, Mama's character.

And you literally are stuck inside that apartment. So you get it. You get the thing that he's driving. And anybody who has ambition and drive and goal understands that feeling of being stuck and wanting to get on the other side. Macbeth understands that feeling of being stuck and wanting to get on the other side. And, oh, man, I just every time I could quote any, I just love that film. And I just love the black excellence.

that is on that on screen for anybody to see at any time. I recommend to people just to take a moment and sit with the with the youngers because it just talks about so much. Is there a scene in particular with Sidney Poitier that jumps out at you as just excellence as just acting excellence? I'm getting chills thinking about it, man. Oh, man. Because it also it reminds me, it also reminds me why

You know, you look at Morgan Freeman, you look at Denzel Washington, you look at, you know, Lawrence Fishburn and, and, and, you know, you look at Viola. You know, you see the, you see the fruits of all of their labor, you know, in the people who we now call our greats. And, and I know the moment for me is the very end where Lindler comes back in and he assumes that they're going to, you know, sell the home and they're not going to move to the white area and sydney is standing there in front of his son who's looking up loving longingly at his father and it's giving me chills and like uh and he's literally sitting there and he makes the decision in that moment to go ahead and do the thing that scares him the most you know to move into the white neighborhood to not take the money you know um integrity so that's that's what it reminds me of every time I watch that movie, it's a joy. It really is. It takes me on a roller coaster ride. It's a great pick. A little context just for the audience. If somehow they're not so familiar

with the Raisin of the Sun, it's from Lorraine Hansberry, who I didn't realize passed very soon after this film, just at the age of 34, I believe. And based on the play in 1959, and yes, this adaptation was in 1961. And you mentioned the amazing cast, Sidney Quattier, Ruby D. I think it was Louis Gosset Jr.'s debut film. Louis Gosset Jr., oh my goodness, yeah, playing George Murchison, yes. An excellent pick. Thank you for that, man.

And just as we wrap up, I know you have some stuff in the can, some stuff to look forward to. What were you shooting overseas? You mentioned most recently. I was shooting the last voyage of the Demeter for Amblin and Universal. And it basically expands on a very, very small chapter

that gets overlooked. about the voyage, Dracula's voyage from, you know, to London. And so, but it's an incredible cast. It's an incredible thriller. And again, it's a psychological journey to period peace. It's, I mean, it's just, it's one of those, again, challenges that I was like, I can't say no to because it literally is all on the page. And you wouldn't normally think about, think that with a film in this genre,

but it gives you everything, man. And I'm, you know, so I'm really happy with the work that I know the cast did. And our director, Andre Overdahl, who I've been a fan of for years, ever since like Trollhunters. Right, right, right. Yeah. So to watch his evolution, you know, autobiography, Jane Doe, and then now this film, I think it's going to be really cool. And then we have a color purple coming up as well. You haven't shot that yet.

That's coming up, right? No, no, no. Yeah, yeah. We haven't shot that yet. We're about to start production in a month or so. That's a chill, low, key kind of project. I mean, whatever. Yeah, I mean, who know, it's just, again, I'm super thankful.

I'm working back again with Scott Sanders and Mar Jacobs, my producer from In the Heights. That's the problem. When you let people know you can sing, then all of a sudden it's like, oh, shoot. It's like, oh, no, I hope I don't mess this up. I got the beautiful, like, I mean, it's just great. Like, you know, Oprah and Spielberg sort of like, well. welcoming me to play Harpo in this version, you know, a musical, which has never been done on film.

And Alice Walker wrote me a beautiful note about being her harpo in this. And so I feel the responsibility, the legacy, and the weight of it, and it's going to be a joy. Blitz Bazaloula is the director, an incredible mind, and a force. And so I'm happy to join up with them. Amazing, man. Congrats on everything. You're, again, surrounding yourself with the right people,

and you can only do that if you've got the chops, and you clearly do. Thank you, man. Big fan of your work, buddy. In The Heights, people should still check out if they haven't had the chance. And the tragedy of Macbeth, again, you know, what do you want? Francis, Denzel, Joe Cohen. What more do you want people?

I mean, people have to see this movie, man. It's a cinematic, I honestly think a cinematic masterpiece, and hopefully people will, just a new way of looking at it. this classic that we all love, you know. And even if you don't know it, it's like music, you feel it, you know. And if you don't lose some sleep from, is it Catherine Hunter? Do I have her name right? Oh, my goodness.

Yeah. God. Come on. I love her. Come on. Catherine Hunter is just, I mean, in the opening beats, just, just her performance, man, is just incredible. This cast is phenomenal.

Good stuff, man. Thanks for the time today. A real pleasure to get to know you, buddy. Thanks, man. Same with you, Beth. Appreciate that. And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes,

or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressure to do this by Josh. Goodbye, Summer Movies, Hello, Fall. I'm Anthony Devaney. And I'm his twin brother, James. We host Raiders of the Lerner. Lost Podcast, the Ultimate Movie Podcast, and we are ecstatic to break down late summer and early

fall releases. We have Leonardo DiCaprio leading a revolution in one battle after another, Timothy Salome playing power ping pong in Marty Supreme. Let's not forget Emma Stone and Jorgos Lanthamos' Bougonia. Dwayne Johnson, he's coming for that Oscar in The Smashing Machine, Spike Lee and Denzel teaming up again, plus Daniel DeLuis' return from retirement. There will be plenty of blockbusters to chat about, too. looks exceptional, plus Mortal Kombat 2, and Edgar writes,

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