Happy Sad Confused - Dave Franco, Vol. III

Episode Date: July 22, 2020

We know Dave Franco, the actor, but it's time to meet, Dave Franco, the director! On this return visit to "Happy Sad Confused", Dave and Josh talk about why he turned to horror first for his directing debut, "The Rental", and why Dave worships at the altar of Spike Jonze. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

D.C. high volume, Batman. The Dark Nights definitive DC comic stories adapted directly for audio for the very first time. Fear, I have to make them afraid. He's got a motorcycle. Get after him or have you shot. What do you mean blow up the building? From this moment on,

none of you are safe. New episodes every Wednesday, wherever you get your podcasts. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, Sad, Confused begins now. Today on Happy, Said Confused, Dave Franco on his directing debut, The Rental, and his comfort movie, Being John Malkovich. Hey, guys, I'm Josh Horowitz. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused.

We have a returning guest today. We have Mr. Dave Franco, who we've talked to often in the past about his acting exploits. But today, we are talking about Dave Franco director. A big moment for any actor, any human being to step behind the camera and make their directing effort. And Dave is somebody who has been thinking about this for a while. He's been plotting and planning, and he's come out with this really effective new horror thriller called The Rental. It's out on demand. You should guys should really check it out.

It starts with kind of a provocative concept. You know, we've all toyed with or done the Airbnb thing. But who, if anyone, like, why are we trusting ourselves to these people we don't know, to these homes we don't know? And could someone be watching from a distance or not so far a distance? And that's kind of the supposition of this really effective new horror thriller, co-written by Joe Swanberg, who some of you guys might know, for his really relationship-based dramas or dramaties, and I think that's what sets this one

apart. This one's a bit of a blend of relationship drama and horror thriller, and I think Dave did a great job, and I'm really thrilled for him that he's embarked on this new part of his career. Dave, of course, you know from 21 Jump Street and neighbors and scrubs, and now you see me films, but, you know, always exciting for an actor, especially an actor that I personally really like to explore a new side of their career. I think this is not going to be a one-and-done. I think we're going to see much more of Dave Franco as a filmmaker, and I welcome it. And by the way, the film stars his partner in crime, Allison Brie and Dan Stevens,

so it's got some great folks in front of the camera as well. The other aspect of this conversation that I'm so excited about is we're talking about an amazing comfort movie that Dave chose. He wanted to talk all about Spike Jones, and specifically we decided to go into being John Malkovich, Spike Jones' feature film directing debut. There you go. Another directing debut. And wow, wasn't being John Malkovich just a groundbreaking one. Another film from 99. We were just talking about Magnolia a few weeks back. Again, we're celebrating 99, which had so many amazing

groundbreaking pieces of work. And being John Malkovich certainly fits that bill, written by Charlie Kaufman, starring John Husek and Cameron Diaz and the amazing Catherine Keener. And of course, I don't know what superlative to give John Malkovich, but what a performance. by him in this mind-bending high-concept dark comedy existential drama. There's no way to really define what being John Malcovic was, but I really welcome the opportunity to go back and see this movie again that I hadn't seen in a while, and I think this one just definitely rewards repeat viewing. So if this is a good excuse for you guys to go back and check out being John Malcovic again, then I've done my job here today. Other things to mention quickly, not much else except

I do want to mention we have a great new episode of Stur Crazy, thanks to my friends at Comedy Central. We made a fun new episode with one of my favorites, Sam Hewinn. You guys that listen to the podcast have heard him here before a couple times. He is always a delight. He's, of course, the star of Outlander, and just a charming, funny guy who likes to give me shit, and I like to give him shit back, and we have an interesting, unique dynamic, and it was fun to capture that in the stir-crazy milieu. And it was a really a special treat to catch up with Sam, even from a distance.

So if you're a fan of Sam Hewn, if you're a fan of mine, definitely check out that new episode of Stir Crazy on Comedy Central's YouTube page and Facebook page. You will not be disappointed. I hope you guys are all staying safe and sane out there. Still crazy times. Get out to vote, register, support the candidates that you think are going to take care of our future. You know where I stand.

I believe in folks that believe in climate change. and racial equality and science. So that's where I stand. I hope you guys are with me and hopefully we can get the world in a better place come this November. But enough politics. Let's talk entertainment.

Let's talk horror. Let's talk being John Malkovich with the one and only, Dave Franco. Dave, as you know, I'm not one for formal introductions, but it's good to see a familiar face and hear a familiar voice. Welcome back to the podcast, and it's weird, current,

Thank you for having me, man. Seriously, always fun to talk to you. Same, man. I'm glad it's coming for an exciting occasion for you. You know, congrats on your feature directing debut. That's got to feel good to hear that. I know what a long road these kind of projects can be, and let alone the first undertaking.

Talk to me a little bit about this movie, The Rental, which, you know, it's always telling to me where somebody starts a directing career, like, what kind of of a film they choose or they find. What does it say about you that this is where you started? Well, yeah, I think a lot of people know me best from the comedies that I've acted in. And so people are definitely surprised

that my directorial debut is a horror film. But for me, as a viewer, there's nothing I love more than a smart genre film. You know, I love the work of Ari Aster and Jordan Peel, Amy Simets, Jeremy Solnier, all these people who are kind of approaching the genre in a really tasteful, elevated way where their films are more kind of nuanced and atmospheric

as opposed to a lot of horror films that lean too heavily on cheap jump scares. Sure. Well, that's the thing about horror as a genre that I think it's why it's attracted so many skilled filmmakers is it lets you kind of use the medium, Use sound design, use visuals, and kind of use all that the visual offers, but also lets you kind of bury, or not even bury sometimes,

put some really interesting, some thematic material in there. I mean, this is a film that's kind of high concept and kind of really simple at its heart about, you know, folks that go to like an Airbnb and think they're being watched and hell breaks loose. And, you know, like the best kind of horror thrillers, it's, yes, it's about the horror on the outside and what's out there,

but it's as much about these internal dynamics and how that's really where the horror was. Yeah, I mean, one of the goals from the beginning was to create a tense relationship drama where the interpersonal issues between the characters were just as thrilling as the fact that there's a psycho-killer lurking in the shadows. And that's part of the reason why I paired up with Joe Swamberg

to write it, because his main... strengths lie in character and relationships. And so we were like, let's do a genre movie where you actually care about these people, where you're invested in them. So by the time, you know, shit inevitably starts going crazy, you care whether or not they live or die. Right. They're not just like these faceless avatars, like pretty people that just like, who is this person again? Yeah, you actually are investing in relationships, as you say. So, you know, I've been talking to you forever since your career started and I mean I remember like early on it was it was the funnier die shorts yeah you guys were kind of putting together and really creating I mean I

assume you were kind of co-directing those in a way or at least writing them yeah so was this kind of always the part of the grand plan as much as acting to kind of be a participant in the whole process yeah I mean I was doing those funnier die videos over a decade ago but like you said me me and my friend we we did everything for them we wrote them acted in them directed, edited, and it was a little bit of a film school for me, and I've been wanting to take the leap to directing a feature for a long time, but candidly, I've been a bit nervous, and but then when we wrote this script, I actually wasn't originally intending on directing it, but I realized that I knew these characters and the story more intimately than anyone, and all of a sudden,

like all those fears about taking this next step, they went away, and I was just excited because I just had such a strong idea of what I wanted to do, and so it finally felt like the right time, the project. How were you on set? Did the fears dissipate on day one, or was it like just, were you a nervous wreck that first day or what? No, it's interesting you asked that because once we actually got on set, I realized I knew a lot more than I thought I did because I've been on so many sets throughout my career, and, you know, a lot of first-time direction.

directors, when they step on a set, this is their first time on any set. I've had that conversation so many times. It's always so funny. It's like, yeah, the first Philips that I ever was on was the one I direct. Like, what? Exactly. And so you're just trying to kind of learn the dynamics between all the crew members and just like the basics of how things work. And so I actually felt really comfortable once we were up and running. And it was just nice to have a say in everything where as an actor for the last handful of years, I

can't help myself. I'm like I'm really curious about every step of the process and so, you know, I'm always talking to the DP and the writers and the director about what they're doing and why they're doing it and I try not to be annoying and I try not to overstep my bounds, but it was nice to have a final

have the final say and everything and ultimately that is a little bit scary but where you know, everything is riding on my shoulders and if the movie works, that's on me. If it doesn't work, that's on me, but I wouldn't have it any other way.

Which of the many film sets that you've been on, do you think you took away the most from? Was there a particular filmmaker or filmmaking experience that felt like I'm really sponging up like a ton of valuable knowledge here? I think about every time I've been on set with Seth Rogan and his crew because they have such, they set such a comfortable kind of vibe on set where they really encourage every single person on set

to voice their ideas if they think it can help the film in any way. And so ultimately, the main rule is whoever has the best idea, best idea wins. And I definitely took that with me on this film. And I guess the smartest thing I did is I really spent a long time vetting the crew because obviously I wanted people who were really talented, but just as important was that I was surrounded by really nice people who were going to work their asses off because as a first time director, I just needed people whose number one priority was this film as opposed to, you know, wanting to go home early to catch the basketball game or whatever. And in the end, it was a really long process putting together the crew, but I was surrounded by all these just very talented, friendly people who made my job a lot easier than it could have been.

I will say, in all honesty, it's a really accomplished piece of work. I mean, often, like, a first-time filmmaker, you can kind of feel like it's like, oh, they had to find it in the edit or something, or it feels like they were really struggling. There's a confidence in what you, like, I see what you were trying to do, and it seems like you certainly accomplished it and certainly the crew you assembled and the actors you assembled. You obviously have Allison in there.

You have Dan Stevens, who I always love. I love the choices he's making in his career. He's just all over the place in the best way. I just saw him in the Will Ferrell comedy. Oh, yeah. He steals it, right? Chewing scenery, but in a great way. So, okay, so as you know,

in addition to talking about your great new work, I've been taking this opportunity in recent months on the podcast to talk about movies that we all love, comfort movies. I've been asking every guest to come on and choose one. I gave you that tough selection. And I know a filmmaker came to mind first, and I made you kind of give the real Sophie's choice

and narrowed down to one. We can talk in general about this guy's career. First talk to me, before we get to the actual film selection, where your film tastes were cultivated, how they came about. Was it two older brothers? Did it come from family, friends? Where did you kind of figure out what you liked in movies? Yeah, that's interesting.

I mean, definitely having two older brothers who are five and seven years older than me, I was introduced to R-rated films before I should have been. And so I think that did really inform my sensibilities and really made me want to kind of push boundaries. And I was just kind of learning about some of these kind of more experimental filmmakers at a time when I didn't fully understand what they were doing, but I was just intrigued by people who were making choices that were outside of the box. And then on top of that,

I may have talked to you about this the last time on the podcast, but my first job was at a mom-and-pop video store when I was 14, and I've always looked young from my age, and so people would come into the store and wonder why this this nine-year-old looking boy was behind the counter renting them, silence of the lambs and basic instinct. But they basically paid me by allowing me to take home

as many movies as I wanted. And so I remember at the time, and maybe this is a good transition, but at the time, movies like Fight Club and being John Malkovich came, came out. This was in 99 when I was 14. And let's just talk about the year of 99. Oh, God, crazy. Because I just did, we just did, we had Zach Quinto on a week or two ago, and he talked about Magnolia. I mean, there were a dozen movies, if not more, in 99. For whatever reason, one of the best years in history of cinema.

It's unbelievable. My friend sent me a list of all the movies from that year. Maybe, and like, it's one iconic movie after the next. Like you said, Magnolia, Being John Malcovic, Blair Witch Project, Fight Club, Notting Hill. Matrix. It also crosses, like, every kind of genre. Like the half dozen movies we just mentioned, you have, like, Matrix, which is, like, ultimate, like, high, sci-fi, fight club, which I don't even know what to call that. American Beauty, kind of melodrama, of being John McAvich. Yes. Like, like art-rated comedies.

So it's, whatever was in the water, that's where it all kind of came together. And yeah, so, okay, so Spike Jones, Malcovich, you're still seeing, what does that do to your brain? This is your comfort movie pick. So watching that movie, like, it just opened my mind up to how weird and experimental you could get with film. And it's really had an effect on everything I've done going forward. And I think what makes Spike Jones who he is, I think what, like, his superpower is, is that he takes these really fantastical ideas and he grounds them in reality

and that's something that I've tried to do with everything I've approached. And, yeah. So, yeah, you've hit upon a few of my favorite aspects of this film. So, yeah, as you mentioned, this is Spike Jones' feature directing debut. He'd obviously, he'd been directing kind of like skateboard videos and music videos, all sorts of smaller things.

Even then with those skate videos, He was so innovative where he had, you know, there was this one video where in post he painted out the skateboard. So it looked like everyone was skating on invisible boards. And so he was just really doing some interesting stuff right from the get-go. So this, he was about 30 years old when he made this, his feature directing debut. It's also the first feature produced based on Charlie Kaufman, the screenwriter, who is, you know, worthy of a podcast of his own. Also my number one favorite screenwriter. Amazing.

He's got a new film he's directed, by the way, coming out on Netflix, right? Very aware of that. So, okay, so the film, for those that don't know, and shame on you, if you don't, but the, I mean, the summary sounds insane. It's about an unemployed puppeteer who finds a portal into John Malkovich's brain. As you said, it's kind of, like, brilliant in that it is, like, the ultimate of bizarre high concepts, and yet the aesthetic, the tone, The world that Spike creates is almost mundane. It's drab. It's kind of just like no one makes a big thing of it

or as big a thing as they should about any of this stuff. Definitely. I think that makes me think of like Kathleen Keener's character. She is, she's so cool and aloof where, you know, as crazy as things get, she just kind of goes with the flow. And if her character was too logical, she would start questioning everything.

And it would really kind of mess with the momentum of the whole film. But instead, she just kind of rolls with it and just uses all of it to her own advantage. And I really give her a lot of credit for keeping the momentum of the movie going.

She's definitely one of my favorite parts of the movie. She plays Maxine in the film. John Cusack plays Craig Schwartz, though, if you ask Mary Kay Place, that's not his name. She can't understand what he's saying. Another one of my favorite scenes, and we'll get to that. I'm saying I'm getting sidetracked already. Cameron Diaz plays Lottie.

Of course, John Malkovich plays John Malkovich, Orson Beams, Dr. Lester. And as I said, Mary Kaye Place has a small but important role as for us. Charlie Sheen pops up as himself. It's interesting. It's an early, relatively early great use, I think, of playing off of celebrity an image. I feel like nowadays it's, I'm guilty of this too. You know my sketches. I do a lot of stuff where

like celebs play themselves, but like back then, I don't think it just, it was more a novel idea. And someone particularly like Malcovich who hadn't gotten into self-parody by then, I think he's great, he's still great,

but like I think we've seen him now do, you know, make fun of himself in different ways. It was just sort of remarkable to see someone as revered as him go to these places. There's a great story about, you know, when they were trying to sell the movie

and everyone in town recognized that it was this really amazing original script, but no one had the balls to step up and actually produce it or finance it. And I remember it's like Spike Jones talking about taking it to

New Line and the head of New Line, Bob Shea, his reaction was like, can we make it being Tom Cruise. Right. And Spike Jones talked like endlessly about how Malkovich was like the perfect person

because he was this kind of enigmatic character and because of the mystery you could kind of project anything onto him. And I guess they had a list of like 50 actors that like iconic actors that they could

have cast in the role or built the whole movie around. But they said that there was not even a second place. They were, like, committed to Malcovich to the point where Spike and Charlie Kaufman, they went off for a year to do rewrites on the script before even approaching Malcovich. So they put all their eggs in that basket

and just, you know, prayed that it worked out. Oh, it worked out so well because, I mean, Malkovich just plays it in such, again, this kind of toned down, like, throwaway role of performance at first. Like, I mean, I think of the first scenes where he's just like, you're in his head, he's in the taxi and he's just sort of like yeah hi whatever and

then you're in his head again when he's like ordering bath mats it's just like the most boring life ever exactly and going back to what you were saying about just like obsession with celebrity it's these moments like him ordering yeah ordering

bath mats or just eating breakfast and these people who are in his brain essentially seeing these mundane activities they come out of it and they're so enthralled by the simplest things. Have you, does the high concept behind this

remind you of any, like, have you been in pitch meetings for high concept, like crazy shit? Have you had to kind of like go into a room and try to sell a studio or network on something that felt like, oh God, if they don't go for this, I'm going to think I'm insane? I mean, nothing this far. I don't know if anyone's ever created anything this

crazy, but in a weird way, it does make me think about when we were trying to sell the rental where, you know, you can imagine when we were trying to sell this movie that isn't a typical thriller horror movie. There aren't jump scares every few minutes. It's more of a character piece. It's a slow burn. I was going to say it's a slow burn.

I wrote that when I was watching it. I was like, you know, it works because as you said, you get invested in the characters. But like if you get right down to it, like the action, like kind of like the, when it really, the shit starts to hit the fan. I don't know what minute mark it is, but it's not in the first 20 or 30 minutes. No, no, no. And so, you know, when we were trying to,

trying to take it around town, a lot of people, they just kept trying to, they were all, a lot of them were interested, but they would push us, they kept trying to push us down the middle and trying to make the more stereotypical version of it.

And I just, I'd rather not make the movie. And so then finally, we met with this company Blackfair, and they were just asking the right questions and they clearly understood what we were trying to do. Yeah, and certainly 99, for whatever reason, like, it was an era where the people that had vision were given the tools.

They were given the proper budgets, the license to kind of go to these crazy places and just trust in their vision. I mean, like, right in the first, like, 10 minutes, like, it's iconic now, but, like, the 7th and a half floor is just, like, such, like, a bizarre idea. So good. I love that Octavia Spencer. or introduction to that who knew.

Like, she's the woman on the elevator that brings into the floor. Fantastic. With the seventh and a half floor, like I have, there's this book called Rebels on the Back lot, which is incredible about these directors in the 90s who were kind of shaking things up.

And I have all these stories just remembering, just from that book. And there was one about how when they were filming those scenes, you know, everyone had to kind of hunch over as they were walking around. So when they were on that set for days at a time, everyone started to get real back problems where they had to bring in a chiropractor. And, like, there's little tidbits about, like, in between scenes

where QSAC would just remove the ceiling panel. So his head would be sticking out. Just so he was able to stand up straight. Fantastic. I mean, there's so much I love. Okay, so a couple of other round things I want to mention that I just love about this movie. You mentioned one, Catherine Keener's performance. She's so confident, so just, you know, I love them on their kind of, like, pseudo-first date.

She asks, you know, Cusack, what he does, and he says, I'm a puppeteer, and she just casually screams check. Perfection, just in delivery. Malcovich's performance, okay, so the only nomination this movie got acting-wise was Catherine Keener. I think in retrospect, like, what Malcovich does in this is kind of... He's incredible. And the moments where I think he's best is when other people are inside of him. Where like later on in the, that's a weird, weird sentence out of context, but like later on in the film, when QSAC is like fully taken control of his body, you feel QSAC's essence inside of it. And like one thing I love about, one little detail I love about what Spike Jones did is whenever someone,

has kind of taken over his body for an extended period of time, Malcovich adopts that person's hairstyle. So when he's back inside of him, he's got this, like, long, stringy hair. And then when Dr. Lester is inside of him, he has this, like, gray comb over. Nice, nice touch. Yeah, the movie should have won some kind of hair award just for, for Malkovich's many styles and what they did to Cameron Diaz's hair is remarkable. I think it all, like, builds through a crescendo on the Malcovich side of things and kind of like the

the Malcovich-Malcovich scene, for lack of a better term, the restaurant scene and just like, again, using very, probably pretty simple effects. I don't think that they spent like tens of million dollars on this. And you can even see, frankly, some of them are just, that's not Malcovich, but it doesn't matter. It's just you're in the middle. It's probably one of the best approximations of what it must be like to have a nervous breakdown. I don't know. It's, I mean, it's, it's got to be my favorite scene. I mean, even just to come up with the idea of, like, what happens when someone goes inside of their own portal, it's incredible.

But like you're saying, yeah, there was all of the extras, they had, they actually made, like, Malkovich prosthetic masks for them. And, like, if you look really closely, they, you know, doesn't really look like him, but the camera's moving fast enough that you don't really. notice. Exactly. I love the glimpse of kind of like the dock that shows up kind of like towards the end of the film of sort of updating us of like what where Malcovic has when he's become this like puppeteer

and we're seeing David Fincher pop up. We see Sean Penn pop up. Again it's like it's dosing this out. Again we're used to this nowadays where we see a lot of celebrities playing themselves and riffing and that's always fun but this like just it doesn't overstay it's welcome. It does just enough and it picks the right people

and there's a look from like Brad Pitt on a red carpet. It just, it's perfection. I love it. It really, and it really was, it really was ahead of its time where like, you know, it still holds up as like one of the most inventive films ever, but like I feel like people have

kind of tried to copy it and take elements of it where maybe if it came out today, people wouldn't lose, you know, wouldn't be so taken aback by it. But, at the time like they no one wanted this thing and like just like I just respect their persistence of just just being like this is the film we're making and there again there were stories about you know the one of the producers seeing early dailies and being like we can

you brighten it up like it's it's a dark film and he's mainly using just like lamps to light the scene. And like another story about, I think the same producer watching a scene and being like, I thought Cameron Diaz was in this seed. And they're like, that's her. They stripped her down and like,

made her something that people didn't recognize her as. And it's just like taking all these huge swings. It's just what I respect more than anything. Do you know Spike at all? Have you crossed paths with them? You know what? It's funny you ask that. I was just look through my emails yesterday. I was like, I feel like I reached out to him a couple years ago.

And I was like, I'm so embarrassed to even look this up, but I did. And I basically reached out and said, hey, I just finished watching her. And I just wanted to reach out and say that you're my favorite filmmaker. And, you know, if there's ever a role that you think I might be right for, even if it's an extra walking in the deep background, I'm your man. And he wrote back, back. And it was very sweet. He was, you know, it was pretty brief, but he was basically like, hey, I'm a fan of years too, which I'm shocked that he even knew who I was, but fan of yours too. And yeah, let's, you know, let's be on the lookout for something. Hey, if he's taking big swings, you've got to take your own big swings. Why not? Very nice to him to give a response. It is remarkable to think. I mean, you look at his filmography. I mean, this year he had the Beastie Boys doc, which is great in its own right. But in terms of like feature narratives, In 20 years, he's only done four.

They're all amazing in their own ways. Malkovich adaptation, he followed it up with, which is fantastic, and he's reels of that one, too. Where the Wild Things are. Talk about a big swing, kind of crazy way to do that. And her, the most recent film, it's been a while since he's directed a narrative, and I'm anxious to see what he has next. He's pretty selective.

But they all, I mean, they all are uniquely spike. No one else can really direct these films. They have such humanity. They are, as you say, grounded. They're all high concept. yet they're often about really sad and lonely people. It's all very relatable. We all relate to kind of the people,

the protagonists in these films, I think. Even with where the wild things are, which is technically a kids movie, I rewatched that recently. And it's, I mean, the ideas in that movie are so complex and, like, existential that I don't even know if I picked up on most. to what was going on.

And I was just laughing to myself thinking about kids watching it. But like, just his approach to even something like that where he's just like, I'm going to do it my way. And it's going to be like nothing you've ever seen before. And it might not be for everyone.

But this is my version of it. That's the best. That's the kind of filmmaker I know I gravitate towards two. One scene that we haven't mentioned, I don't know, it seems like you read up on this too. I'm like trying to figure out what's real and what's not. And, you know, Spike is a bit of kind of a,

the kind of guy I think that can make up stories from time to time, the scene where Malcovich is on the turnpike and gets the camp thrown at his head. So to hear Spike talk about it on the director's commentary, he says that was an extra that was loaded, like a drunk extra that just threw, I swear to God. What's interesting about that moment is

he's walking down the freeway and the car is coming from behind him and they say, hey, how would they know it's Malcovich? And I was like, how did they know that was him? So that actually drives in that story then. It was a loaded extra who was just like, yeah. That's raising it all together. That makes sense.

One of my favorite moments. I mean, really good toss. If that was just an extra, like, nailed it. Yeah, I think Spike talked about how they ended up having to pay him because he got a line. So, like, he was rewarded for being wasted. Amazing. Someone, I hadn't heard about this, but apparently when Get Out came out,

came out, there were some fan theories that said that Get Out is a sequel to the film that Captain Keener's reprising her role. Oh, wow. And then Allison Williams is playing the grown-up, Emily, aka Malcolm Bitch's daughter. Oh, interesting. I mean, Jordan Peel has refuted that, but he also has said that's an amazing theory. Why not?

I would like to watch Get Out with that in mind. Exactly. Yeah, I'll get back to you on that. Let's give out some arbitrary awards for this film. Best performance in being John Malcovich, who did you get in? too. I mean, I want to say Keener or Malcovich, but just for the sake of mixing things up, you know who's really great is the guy who plays Dr. Lester. And he, you know, he's not, he doesn't

have a huge role, but he has this weird energy from the very beginning where, like, he's a type of guy who someone will ask him a question and he'll just look at you for a few seconds. and then kind of like, you know, have this, like, really kind of goofy grin. And it's just like, what's going on behind that mind? And then the reveal later on that Lester is essentially a vessel like Malkovich, and there is someone else inside of him. It's like, oh, that kind of totally makes sense why he was the way he was this whole film. Right.

It actually wasn't arbitrary quirkiness. That's Orson being the late grade Orson being in that role. We've mentioned a few of our favorites. What's the best scene in the film? Is there one scene that rises to the... I mean, again, realistically, the best scene is when Malcovich goes into his own portal, but I really do love the scenes where it's almost Malcovich's, like, transformation, where, like, where QSack's, like, just starting to get a hold on how to control him.

And so Malcovich, like, has these, like, you know, really kind of jumbled words coming out of his mouth where he's trying to control himself, but, like, QSack is inside of him, trying to talk through him. There's something really brilliant about what Malkovich does most of this. Do you have a favorite line or a wine that you found yourself quoting over the years? Yes, it's a strange one. It's very simple. But towards the end, when Charlie Sheen comes over to his place and Malkovich just says, Maasene, and then Charlie's like, Malkitraz.

That's good. I did take too. Not that I quote this in recent years, but when I was really, watching it. It comes very early in the film and it's a throw away from Cusack. He says nobody's looking for a puppeteer in this world's dry economic climate. It's just throws

it away. This one, I don't think it works for this particular film. Should there be a remake sequel? Why even bother? This is... I mean, in a weird way, I do feel like adaptation is somewhat of a sequel to it. It's been a while, but it doesn't even

reference this film? There's like a scene in adaptation where they're filming being John Malcolm, being John McAvich. Yeah. Amazing. So what's the, there's some, some movies we've already mentioned. I like to program a double feature for the audience. What's a good film to pair with this?

Is it adaptation? It's another Spike movie? Is it? Definitely. I mean, also I think Eternal Sunshine is a good, good movie to pair with another Charlie Coffman movie, which is one of my favorites. But I think, I think, I think, I think, I was trying to think of, you know, as you referenced earlier, there have been a lot of movies,

in the wake of this movie, influenced, whether consciously or unconsciously. I guess the most recent example, I would say, sorry to bother you, definitely has a little bit of influence there. It's interesting to see it at 20 years on. It definitely still has, yeah, it has influence. So that being John Malkovich, I think I said, it's on Hulu, that's where I watched it,

or everybody should check it out. It had been in a while for me, it stands up, it's just a singular piece of work from Spike Jones. Everybody should check out the rental, of course, from the new Autour that is Dave Franco. And I also want to mention, I haven't seen anything of it, but you have this new Quibi show that's coming soon too, right? Yes. I don't know how much we can talk about it right now.

Well, we can say, I mean, I've seen it still of you and Bill Murray. That's a headline right there. So you've got to spend some time with Bill. Yeah, that was incredible. I mean, he's basically everything that you want him to be. he plays by his own rules to the point where like we genuinely didn't know

if he was going to show up until the day that we were filming those scenes and did he okay so not to make it about me but I got to do this weird little cameo in zombie land double tap with Bill so I spent a day with him so I think I have a

flavor of what the Bill Berry experience is like I would you describe it very similar it was sort of like because I was there like we were there blocking the day before and there was a script and he kind of in a lovely Bill Murray way kind of was like yeah let's just uh let's make it something different let's try something about it and it really wasn't the script we ended up doing and um with many actors you'd be like oh god but when you're with Bill Murray you're like yeah I'll I'll try this out definitely and you and you can imagine like for me I I'm always prepared but like I was overly

prepared for these scenes and you know knew everything just really, really put a lot of time into it, and then I show up on set, and like you said, he basically threw away the script, and immediately I just realized, I'm like, oh, I got to forget everything I just prepared and just kind of just react to whatever he's doing, and it ended up being so fun because every single take, he takes you down a different path, and that's just kind of the most exciting kind of acting. I can't wait to check that one out. That's coming soon to Quibi. I'll stay tuned for that one. And, you know, big congrats, man.

I mean, it's always an accomplishment to get any kind of feature made, let alone a first effort, especially, you know, it's not 1999, where people are taking, like, big chances and giving big budgets to films. And, like, it's tougher than ever. It's going to be tougher, sadly, than ever going forward. But, you know, you did a great job, man. And people should really check out the rental.

I hope we see many more directing efforts from you in the future. I appreciate it, man. One last question I want to ask you is one thing I was thinking about it, and I promise I'm not thinking about you too often. But you obviously... Usually, I'm the one that makes it weird. I'm glad some of the tables have turned. What's up?

You're obviously such a film lover, and you essentially study it, and you know what you like about movies, and what you don't, and maybe what you would do, and I guess I'm wondering, like, have you ever thought about making your own movies? Oh, provocative.

Well, you know what? Yes, and I don't know if we talked about this. My brother's a screenwriter, and he's done features and whatever. And so, like, that's certainly part of my DM. I've kind of scratched that itch, I think, at least thus far, on kind of doing shorts for Comedy Central, and I like that format a lot. Like, I've done it for a while, and I feel like I know how to do that format. You know, I would be lying if I didn't say that I've got some longer form projects that are like the dream projects, like, oh, at one point, that would be cool.

Good, good. I'm glad to hear that, yeah. So now you've just volunteered yourself to be in a future Josh Harrow with. Sucker. All right. I'm in. I'm in. Thanks, buddy. It's always fun to geek out with a fellow cinephile. And, again, everybody, check out the rental. One last plug. And I hope to catch up with you soon in person, then.

Thank you so much. I appreciate it as always, man. And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressure to do this Hi, Josh. Hey, Michael. Hey, Tom. You want to tell him?

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