Happy Sad Confused - David Chase

Episode Date: September 29, 2021

It's not hyperbole to say this week's guest on "Happy Sad Confused" revolutionized TV as we know it. There was before "The Sopranos" and there's now, a golden age of complex, ambitious, television sagas. David Chase joins Josh on the podcast this week to discuss his return to "The Sopranos" with "The Many Saints of Newark", a gangster film, but also a deeply personal one for Chase. Don't forget to check out the Happy Sad Confused patreon here! We've got exclusive episodes of GAME NIGHT, video versions of the podcast, and more! For all of your media headlines remember to subscribe to The Wakeup newsletter here! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Get after him or have you shot You mean blow up the building From this moment on None of you are safe New episodes every Wednesday Wherever you get your podcasts Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now.

Today on Happy, Say, Confused, David Chase takes the Sopranos to the big screen with The Many Saints of Newark. Hey, guys, Josh Horowitz here with another edition of Happy, Say, Confused, and a new guest to Happy Say Confused, someone I'm not sure I ever thought would be on the podcast, to be honest, primarily because he's known most for his television work that has come in the past. He hasn't been doing, he hasn't had a lot of, like, produced work in recent years, and he also just generally doesn't do a lot of interviews, but happy to say the great David Chase is the guest. I'm happy, say I'm confused this week. If you listen to last week's show, you know I'm a fan of this new work, the many saints of new work. This is the Sopranos prequel of sorts. It tells the story of young Tony Soprano, played by Michael Gandalfini.

Yes, the son of James Gandalfini, but also of Dickie Maltesanti, played by Alessandra Navo. guest and features a fantastic ensemble, including Ray Leota. Fantastic. I'm curious to see he gets some awards love for this because he's really good in it. Vera Farmiga, Corey Stoll, the list goes on and on. Anyway, the guest, though, this week is David Chase, who's somebody that fiercely intelligent. I mean, it doesn't, I'm not using hyperbole to say this guy is really responsible for changing the face of television. The Sopranos just changed the paradigm of what you could do on TV and the ambition and the kinds of heroes you could depict and the complexities, the violence, the profanity, all of it. I mean, it was all, like, wrapped up in this kind of perfect

show on HBO back in the day. And I would say you do not get the likes of, you know, Breaking Bad and Mad Men and I could list off dozens of others without what was created by David Chase and the company that made The Sopranos. So this was thrilling to have him on. He is, He's kind of a tough interview in some ways, and I knew this going in. He's, you know, a lot of the guests I have on the show, A, a lot of the guests are actors who are just, like, born and bred to be charming and sweet, just the way they are. But even directors, they have to tell a story, and they kind of, like, just have that gene of being kind of very affable.

I wouldn't call David Chase affable, and David, if you're listening, I mean this in the nicest possible way. He's just kind of a prickly guy, which is okay. I love him, and I think he's so fascinating and intelligent, and yes, he does have a sense of humor. But in the moment when you're having a conversation with him, you're all, it's a different feeling. It's a different kind of feeling interviewing David Chase than interviewing 99% of the other folks that I've done on the podcast.

And I knew that going in, I'm relieved to say, I listened back to the conversation. I was like worried. I'm like, oh, how's it going to come across? Are people going to think that he hated me? I don't think he hated me. I watched it back. He does not hate me. We had a great chat.

Yes, he kind of questions me at times on some of my. questions, but that's okay. I'm a big boy. We can have disagreements. It's okay. The bottom line is, I want you guys to kind of recalibrate. If you haven't heard a David Chase conversation, just know going in. This is going to be kind of a different cadence to a conversation maybe than most of the conversations on happy, say, I'm confused. Also, he's an older gentleman, so just a different way of speaking. That's enough preamble on the conversation. It's fantastic. No more apologizing. It's a great one. And you guys really should check out the Many Saints of New It comes out October 1st.

It's on the big screen where available, where you can see it safely, try to do that. It is also going to be on HBO Max. I know it's going to kill David Chase for me to even say that because he wants you to see it on the big screen. But like I said, I've seen it on the big screen twice. It's fantastic there. I saw it as safely as possible. I felt good about it. If you feel good about it and you're able to go see it on the big screen, I'm just giving you all the options.

Other stuff cooking in the Josh Horowitz world, I'm very happy to see. say we have taped a new episode of the Comedy Central series, the untitled Josh Horowitz show with one of my favorites, recent podcast guest, James McAvoy. Yes, James McAvoy always delivers. He's fantastic and funny and smart and witty and inappropriate and makes a great guest. And that is coming up in the weeks to come. Check it out very soon. Some cool MTV interviews that are already in the bank. I've teased these before, I think, but I'll mention again because they're coming very, very soon. Any second now, if not already, my conversation with Tom Hardy and Andy Circus up on MTV News's YouTube page. Check it out. Coming very soon for Dune. Yes, Dune. Finally,

my chat with Timothy Shalmay and Zendaya is coming soon to MTV, as is on this podcast, this very podcast. I don't know if it's going to be next week, but it's going to be pretty soon Denisville Nouve coming back to HappySat, Confused, for an in-depth, geeky conversation. about all things dune you will not want to miss that one um other things to mention let's see well over on the patreon page you know i always have to mention that uh you can always watch video versions of this podcast including david chase uh you can watch all the game night episodes we've done and there are some really cool ones coming up you know i can't tease them too early but there's some really exciting cool new guests coming up on game night check out all the fun we're having over there

at patreon dot com slash happy sad confused And the only other thing to mention is something I can't really mention, but because I'm a tease, I'll just say it. I'm really excited. We got the green light on something big and ambitious and in person and with maybe the most requested person on the podcast or in all of the Josh Harwich shenanigans. So something's cooking. That being said, have I just jinxed it? Is it all going to fall apart? Probably.

What's not going to fall apart is this conversation. This is fantastic. Check out the Many Saints of Newark October 1st in theaters and on HBO Max and enjoy this chat with me and the creator of the Sopranos, the legendary Mr. David Chase. My distinct pleasure to welcome Mr. David Chase to the happy, say, confused podcast, sir. Congratulations on the Many Saints of Newark. Big fan of this one. I've seen this one twice on the big screen.

So I hope you're feeling very proud and excited on the eve of the release. So talk to me a little bit about, I'm curious, first of all, just like thinking back. I remember, for instance, I was working at the Charlie Rose show way back when, and we had you on the show,

and it felt like it was a big deal. Because David Chase, at that time, wasn't doing much talking. What was it like for you back in the heyday of Sopranos as you did a little bit of press? This was, you would live the life as a television writer and showrunner. What was it like to suddenly have the press tear about what you were saying in the middle of Supranos?

It was a big learning curve as to figure out how to do this and what to say, what not to say. And I'll never forget Charlie Rose because I couldn't get a word in Edgewood. I remember you go back and look at it. He finished my thoughts, he asked me a question, and then he'd answered the question. Well, having worked for Charlie for four years, I knew that. technique very well. And I don't feel like I need to defend him anymore, considering we now know he was officially an asshole. So a decent interviewer, talk too much and not a great guy in his personal life. So there's that. But talk to me from your perspective. I'm curious. Like,

was it a bit of a, for lack of a better term, a mind fuck for you to suddenly like be so celebrated after a lifetime of writing? Like that must have been an odd experience because, you know, It doesn't happen that way. It's usually like the 25-year-old writer that celebrated and as the Wonderkind. You would live the life. No. Well, you know, I mean, to be candid,

it's something you always dream about. Sure. And fantasize about it. And there it was coming true. I was being asked all these questions. But it would never have happened. Had not James Gandalfini abdicated his role as the interview for that show.

Right. He just didn't want any part of it. He didn't want to be the spokesman for the show. He didn't want to do this. He didn't want to do that. And so there was nobody else. And so I did it. And at first, it was not good.

Were he saying too much? You were too candid or what? What I remember is an interview with Alex Wichel in New York Times. This is my first, maybe. And I mentioned the fact that I, about depression, that I had had depression. And I talked about my mother. And I said it more than once because I wanted, I was trying to, you know, promote that show, which was Tony was depressed in his mind.

And that's, that's all she really wrote about. And since then, That's my reputation, sour, depressed, you know. Stuck on the Wikipedia entry for decades. So if anybody knows anything about you, they know that you've always had an aspiration to be a filmmaker, to direct, in fact. I mean, I remember, correct if I'm wrong, when Sopranos would premiere every season, or at least some of the seasons, you guys would do big premieres on a big screen. You would do Radio City. Yeah, at Radio City Musical.

Right. First, it was the Ziegville, which is a great place. And then it was, and I mean, for me, that was, and I said it that night, you're standing on this immense stage, probably on the elephant trapdoor. And my father, I remember my father taking me there when I was four and a half or five on a Sunday. And, you know, can you imagine what a kid, for a kid, what that's like. It was a huge part of Christmas. And there I was on that stage and like, you know, yeah.

How much discussion was there back in the day during the series of doing the future? Did HBO, did Warner Brothers talk about it? Did you seriously make a pitchboard or was it just not even in your mind? The only thing that happened was in that regard was that Brad Bray, when he became President of Paramount, said that we should make, he would finance. the movie Cleaver if we wanted to make it and we didn't and when I say we I don't know who I'm talking about besides but I remember there's some other people involved and and where were you at so the the show goes off the air it obviously has this historic finale that is to this day analyzed it and poured over were you sopranoed out were you even thinking like any other story in

that universe, or did you need some distance before seriously contemplating? I wasn't glad of that. But I don't want to give the impression. I loved every minute I worked on that show. That was, of course, the best creative experience of my life. And a lot of people said to me then, and I agreed, you have the best job on television in Hollywood, because you get to do whatever you want, which is true, and somebody pays for it.

and you don't have notes from the network and worries and you have a great cast and it was true I had the best job I loved it but by the time 2007 rolled around it was just it was time to end yeah worked out well so so what changes beyond the passage of time is it is it that an idea that you were that passionate about or was it a little bit of just enough distance had passed where it felt like appropriated right to return? No, I never intended to return. And when I was asked about that, I would say, no, I never want to return. And then I would say, but I have to add, never say never.

So, of course, this gets you the reputation of being tricky. The truth. Tricy, evasive. what happened was I you know I had I had just finished writing a six-hour miniseries just I say but it took me a long time a six-hour miniseries for HBO and and I wasn't doing much after that and there was two health crises in my family and I just that I needed to really get to work. I needed to write something again,

write something that would get made and produce, or actually started out, direct something that would get made because I needed to shake up what was going on at home. Right. And that's how it happened. This, this, the setting of this

is in the DNA of Sopranos. You know, I've taken, one of the joys of researching for my guess is you got to kind of revisit things you haven't done in a while, and I got to watch a lot of the original series. In the very first lines, Tony says to Melfi, he's talking about the good old days, and he's reminiscing about this period that you, in fact, have now captured on screen. It makes sense to me that it is a film, because this is a more cinematic period. This is the nicer closed.

This is the romanticized time. Did you find that this period did lend itself to better to a big screen tree? because of those reasons? No, I think had we been able or had I decided to do a sequel, I think it would have been equally as cinematic. I think the reason maybe you think that is maybe because it has

little echoes of the Godfather because of the clothes. Is that possible? Yeah, there's definitely that you can't think of, not think of it. The problem was, you know, with those shirts and, you know. Do you feel like, so talk to me a little bit about your own,

remembrances of this time period. This obviously, tanks in the street in the late 60s has to make an impression on a young man. What do you remember of 1967 Newark? What did you see that made an impression on you? I remember about 1967 was, I had only one interest. And that was, I was in a band. To call it a band is a little bit of a

I missed overstating it a bit or was it a bunch of friends who did fool around with the idea of having a band not fool around who took it very seriously and two of those guys were really, really good guitar players and

at least one of them should have made it but anyway so but we never you know the egos and all the silliness about it we never could get it straight and I didn't know what to do. I was going to get married. That was the other thing.

And then I was down in the village sitting in my car with one of these guys, Pete, an amazing guitar player and who had it in his head, really, to be the next Bob, another Bob Dylan. Anyway, so we were sitting in the car, and we were talking about it. the future and I said, well, you know, I'm going to go into film school. I think I'm going to try my hand at, I think I'd like really to make movies. I think that'd be a neat thing to do. And he said, well, okay, but I don't think he'll be anything but it'll never be anything but the drummer in my band. And he made my career after that. That was the most motivating thing that ever happened to me.

By eliminating that as a passion. Yeah, yeah. How dare you say that to me? Always, it kept me going for years. Fine, okay, if I'm not good enough in that, I'm going to need to channel it into something else. Well, no, it wasn't, it was, I was really interested in film. Yeah.

But, I would have, even if I had joined his band, I would never have stayed the drummer. But it just was, It just got got me so angry that he would think that about me. And it inspired me. Did you articulate, I mean, obviously, again, anybody that knows anything about Sopranos, knows that a lot of it is drawn from your own parents,

your own childhood, your own family. Did you articulate your passions for music and film to your parents? And what did they make of it? No, I didn't. I mean, they knew, they saw me carrying a guitar case around when I started trying to play bass. and they knew that I was really into that. Films, they didn't know anything about it.

I mean, because, you know, films, you go to the movies, I would watch movies very late at night on our TV at home. Some good ones, actually, on CBS, the Late Show, or even later. Some old movies, I really love those. You know, that's where we saw Casablanca. But I didn't, I never, no, I didn't talk about that much with them. I had to when I was going to actually leave to California to go. Do you remember a specific conversation and how did it go?

My mother was very upset. And my father said, you can be a clown in the circus, but you're going to finish college. So, and that guy, Pete, who said that to me, you'll never be anything more than the drummer in my band, is the guy who said remember when is the lowest form of conversation.

Same guy. So when you articulate your dreams of going to California, does your mom say something approximating you're talking through your hat? Are the specific phrases in this film drawn from your... You didn't go in that direction

talking to your hat. You went through, you know, I've been struck it in a heart reaction. You see, my family, we're Italian-American. on both sides a hundred percent but my father's family for some reason are protestant and i there are some in america and i think they they come from a sect called the waldensions who came to naples from germany anyway we were protestant and we were italian and long before this

juncture that you're talking about my mother said to me I know what's going to happen to you. You're going to marry some Irish Catholic girls. Cool girl, drive to California and I'll ever see you again. That's exactly what happened. Seriously, that's exactly what. Denise Kelly was her name? California.

And the rest is history. Yeah. And what about? Back to visit. Very, very slightly. And what were your, what was your family or your parents' attitude about race? I mean, obviously, that's a dimension. this that is much more prevalent given the circumstances and the timing were you in an integrated

neighborhood was there much talk about african americans and was it's not an integrated neighborhood there was not one black kid in my high school and in the school next to us which was like the bigger town call well there was maybe one or two um my parents if they were my mother hated the Irish, not the black people. There was, it was all kind of casual. They didn't put a lot of effort into it. It was what they call casual racism. In other words, they would not make a stink

about a black family being in the restaurant, but they wouldn't like it. But I think that's the term for it, casual racism. And they were not actively angry at anybody. they never told me black people were less than or anything like that wasn't the big talk about why you're the superior race it wasn't that but there was some ingrained stuff from from generations of course yeah never about the superior race yeah so it's odd that they did i mean it's not odd but no they didn't they didn't i mean there's a line in this movie that my mother

said which was this was probably like 1950 and we were riding on a city bus then there was a black person a woman I think or a person of color sitting a couple seats in front of us and maybe I hadn't seen a person of color before and I was staring and she like

grabbed my she said don't stare at them they don't like it moving into like the specific characters in this one I mean Dickie for instance your protagonist you're played by Alessandro

in this. It's kind of complicated his relationship with race, I feel like. At first it almost seems like he's working with black men. Like there's almost a grudging marriage of convenience there, but in the end without ruining anything, it seems like it's clearly

something that will as a deal breaker for him. So he was on the football team with a black guy. Right. I don't know that they were friends in high school. proper and it was pattern in my head on barringer high school in newark of which i knew fairly little although my mother had gone there and i believe by that time it was kind of

mixed and i don't think he would have been friends with dicky in the hallway with it with harold in the hallway nor would he ever have expected harold to come to the poor store or like or enjoyed that. You know, when you think of printing a TV, you're not equal. Right. He was an employee. The creation of Dickey,

who obviously already existed in this kind of, you know, in this universe, it's a tricky thing for you, needless to say. You're creating a quote unquote soprano story without the most indelible soprano's character at the center. While Tony is an important character in the story, he is not, he's not the main character in the story.

Talk to me about the challenge of creating Dickie and creating someone that can live up to the charisma and complexity of Tony. Did you find that challenging? And what did you need in that character to carry the story? Lawrence Connor and I, who wrote this with me, were stupid enough not to be intimidated by this or worry about it. Probably for the best. Yeah. I know this kind of sounds odd to understand, but. It was a job, and we were going to create this movie,

and we decided early on we needed a character like Tony. That's the kind of movie we wanted to make. We wanted to make a real gangster movie. Right. So we needed a real gangster, okay? And we wanted to create a character like Tony, but not like Tony, not Tony, with a different story. And that would be interesting.

And the story of Dick, and his death came to mind right away. Because people talked about him, like he was so dangerous and such a badass and so contradictory. So he was, wasn't that difficult to pick him. You know, the elephant in the room of this thing, the greatest asset and the greatest challenge, and it sounds like from what you said to me thus far,

smartly you guys didn't labor over this too much, but the sopranos of it all. I think one of the greatest compliments I can say about this film is I think it will work for, both the die-hard person that knows every episode of Sopranos, but I think it works as a self-contained story without knowing what it's nodding to. Really important, believe me.

I'm sure, you know, of course it's important to Warner Bros. It's important to myself also and everybody who worked on. Is that something you check yourself on every scene, kind of like, are we serving this own story? Are we the nods to the larger thing are great, but we need to serve this? No, not, no, not every scene. We decided that's what we need to do.

and we hope that we dove in and did the story. And, you know, it's like any other TV show or movie, you do your best and hope it works. And hope there's, that the inspiration is felt by other people. And you just do it. I mean, but there was a draft, I mean, what you're seeing comes very late in the process. There was other versions.

It always was about Dickie and all that, but there was, we went far a few. for a while. So I know you did some, as many films do, of a certain budget, do additional photography more recently. What did that add? What did you find in an initial edit that you wanted to augment that you wanted to add to in the additional photography? Well, to my mind, that additional photography made the picture. um we had some problems with the earlier versions that people especially people who hadn't seen the show but actually even people who have didn't know who was who didn't know what was

going on um and i felt we needed to straighten that out and i also felt very straightforward strongly that it was a movie searching for an ending and that's what that was with that attempt for us we're I mean that you know there's certainly more certain more overt aspects of the film that that reference sopranos for instance like was the narration always in there um was the music cue that comes at a very pivotal time always in there or did that come late in the process well that's the work of movie making no no no I mean you don't a film is shot and then and then you look you cut our editor cuts it all together and you see what you really have oh that's what this is well seriously because

yeah from actors and directors and what you imagine in your head now you have to deal with what's really what's there right that that came through all the time that it took that came through all the money that was spent that came through all the wrong turns there you have it do you show this different cuts to people you trust or is it an internal kind of like a small group we did we had one screen for some friends early on um but it really is mostly a turn yeah the the the casting is fantastic. I love seeing Alessandro in this. Obviously, the casting of Tony is pivotal,

and it's really touching to see his son in this performance, and he evokes his father and just, like, countless ways that you can't even, like, describe? I mean, can you describe, like, what it was like to see him start to inhabit that character on the set? Was there a point where you felt relief, or did you already know going in that he was going to be able to accomplish this.

I mean, I didn't know absolutely. I don't think any of this did. But I got to a point in the casting process where I just said, it's going to be him, there's nothing else to talk about. We had, you know, we had

auditions other guys. I said, it's going to be him and there's nothing else to talk about. And it's going to work out. It's got to work out. my only concern was that maybe people will say it's gimmicky but it isn't i think it's honest and it's real and then i didn't worry about it anymore and and you know and then i didn't think about it anymore but what what when you say on set when i saw him become his father it it didn't happen on set it happened in the read-through um the tables are in a u or a square

And he was across the square from me, you know, and he was, I can't, I can't do it. He was like listening, it wasn't even his scene, but he was paying attention to it, as he should of, because he was part, you know, and he started to do this thing with his shoulders and his face. I don't know if that was conscious or, and I thought, oh, my God, that really, that's his old man. It was really stunning. It's so funny to think about the casting of James in the first place, because so much of it is, about the time and place. Like, if Supranos is made today in this environment

when movie stars, like, happily take on TV projects, James Gandalfini's not the star of the Sopranos, is he? Like, is at least my theory. I feel like you have the license to get a big name giant actor, not character actor that's never really had the big shot, James Gandalfini. What's up? Made today, you're saying?

Yeah. No, I don't agree with that. I mean, is a lot of real. Yeah, there's a lot of, the majority of shows on the air are not big, you know, big stars. They're, you know, some of them are medium level. Some of them are not, are unknowns. I don't, I really don't agree with that. Okay, okay.

Did it feel, you know, you talked about his kind of reluctance to be kind of the face, the public face, at least, of the show. Did it feel like, you mean, your relationship with him clearly was a complex one over a number of years. you collaborated again on your own feature film years later. Did that film did not fade away, working with him again, kind of, I don't want to say repair, because it wasn't a broken relationship, but it was a different relationship at the end of Sopranos, clearly. Yeah, we were barely, we were barely talking. I remember at the last, I don't know what it was, the last, kind of the last party or the last screening.

Maybe it was at the Emmys, I don't know. And that was it. It was going to be the last time we were all. together and we're sitting at a table and my wife he saw he went by with his food my wife said jim come sit over here just ignore it and went and sat somebody else someplace else um and he that he had started that kind of stuff and that really for my wife i was just infuriated yeah and i said my i hate that motherfucker i hate that guy that's what it had come to from how how much I liked him. I remember you. And then I was going to make this other movie and I didn't

think of him. And I think I didn't think of him that much because John McGarrow, who played the lead, his son is not like him physically at all. But I guess it got, maybe it got out or his agent called about anyway. He turned it down. He had turned it down. So we went on and I was speaking to him on the phone one day. I don't know why. And he asked about the movie and I said, well, you know, we're getting there. It's been, you know, casting's been a problem. I'm not going to kid you. But I think I think we know who we want. He said, who. And I said the actor's name. I can't let you do that. All right. I'll do it. Was it ever articulated any more than that about the water under the bridge now.

After that movie, and we got along really well, I went to a Easter party in the daytime at his house, and somebody was hocking me about doing a Sopranos movie. And maybe I was thinking, so I asked him, would you be interested in doing, you know, I asked him, would you be interested in doing a Sopranos movie?

He goes, no, I'd have to read his script. I really had a good sense of humor There's some like paparazzi footage I saw of him Where somebody's like asking him Like do you think they'll ever be a soprano's movie And he goes, yeah, when David Chase You know, goes broke basically I mean, clearly this was

I assume this was partially out of love But you've said before He called you Satan on set Was that a lot? Yeah, that was all of you He called me Satan and vampire Because He called all of us.

of us, all the writer's vampires, because we used incidents from people's lives or aspect of the actor's lives. It never did it with him. We never took anything from his real life. Yeah, what's his problem? You're okay. Tony, Tony Serrico became character actor Tony Sirrico to Tony Sirrico star because we accent, we used his life and his personality. Right. Did you find the need or want to go back to any episodes when you were writing this show? Or was it so ingrained that you kind of like, it's obviously part of you? Well, I thought it was ingrained.

You get it a refresher. I should have, you know, we probably could have gone back and looked at some stuff. but in the end maybe we did let me think I don't believe so there is always that strange phenomenon like with

yeah come ahead we did go back and look at the episode or the scene from all debts public and private to the scene where Tony explains to Christopher about that cop in there and your father and all that

you alluded to this before due to various circumstances you weren't able to direct this and I know that probably sticks into your crawl a little bit because that was the intention and you've obviously directed a feature before but you wanted to on this one

in your mind I mean Alan does an exceptional job but is this is it a much different film if you'd like are there specifics that you could imagine have approached in a much different way if you had directed it? I really can't

I don't think so I mean yeah I would have approached it a different way but I actually don't think it would have been as good. What did you learn from the experience of doing not fade away, for good or for bad, that you would apply going forward, from your feature directing experience after the Sopranos, did that experience, which, you know,

I don't know if you had to create a freedom you had on Sopranos, if that was a different kind of experience, but what did you take away from that experience going forward? One good thing, I don't know that it would still hold true. When doing that movie, when setting up shot, when imagining how to make a scene with the camera and actors, I felt you really have, you got it, you finally got this. And I felt very much at ease. And I was hoping I would take that to the next thing, whatever it is.

But, you know, I don't know. By that time, you know, I might be scared shitless again. I mean, I think everybody says, all directors say I'm always scared every time. But what did I take? I took forward some not-so-good things. Like the marketing of the film is hell. and it's not just making the film it's marketing and everything can be ruined by that well and we kind of alluded to this the marketing of this film is a challenging one you have a film

that stands on its own but also alludes to a very significant property in people's minds how much i mean i can only imagine how much warner brothers beg you not to call it the many saints of newark did that all really they were fine with it Warner Brothers, on the filmmaking level, Toby Emrick, Richard Brenner, and I'm just escaping me now. I hope he's not going to be angry. Oh, yeah, Michael Disko. The filmmaking level, they were really good. Very few little things.

And then after they'd see a cut, they'd say, you know what? I think we should do some more and you should maybe try this. And so that's an amazing thing for a studio to say in my book, I'm going to give you more money and you make it better. Yeah. They did. And they deserve a lot in my book. But come to the marketing.

That's always a challenge. Yeah. Has there been any discussion? Have you contemplated some of these characters live? Some of them don't. But I would imagine HBO, HBO Max would kill for David Chase Soprano series with John Bernthal and Vera, et cetera. Is that something that's even been discussed?

It was just not with specific actors, but it was discussed way before we started shooting about a sequel. I was thinking, God, take it easy. You know, we're having, nobody's bunch of it to me since. No, maybe halfway through there was some conversation, but no, but nobody's talked about. And in your mind, have you contemplated it, or again, do you need a bit of a break before contemplating going back to these characters? Well, I have contemplated it because, as I was getting to the end of this process, I was thinking, this is fun. This, you know, IP is fun.

And if I could work with Terry again, I said this a lot. he and I could write one together I do it I wouldn't do it by myself I mean Larry was good but you know Terry was I don't know Terry Winter of course for those of yeah yeah you know the go-to guy yeah I'm curious like you know especially back at it when when Sopranos first launched there was so many comparisons made for good or for bad and warranted or not with Goodfellas and godfather etc like you you were lumped in and art to this day and maybe it's a compliment with Scorsese and Coppola. Did you, have you, do you have professional or personal relationships with those gentlemen?

Have you ever spoken with none of all? I've spoken with Marty Scorsese. I've never, never spoken with Francis Coppola. I mean, I've spoken with Marty Scorsese. Hello, how are you? Good to see you. That's it. But never a substantive of overlap between the projects.

Well, no, although Terry Winter, of course, was on a sopranos and then went to work with Marty. Wolf of Wall Street, right? Yeah, not only that, but war war, I'm fired. Oh, sure, of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Did you, I assume you must have seen the Irishmen. Did you have any strong feelings either way on what he did with that one? I really, I really admired it.

I just, I admired learning in such an exciting way about American politics and labor. and criminal activity there on Italian-American activity there. That was, I mean, I had a basic understanding of it, but to see it act and just been depicted so well. Do you, you know, we talked about potentially other stories in this world. Are there other, are there other scripts that are at a level of like ready to be produced that you would direct?

Like, if you had your druthers, is there a script that you would love to see greenlit and get back on a set? No, that's the only Spanos material that I have just been shot.

Do you have, like, control? Like, could HBO just do what they want with Sopranos, or is it up to you? Who is it up to in the end? No, they own it. Is that a scary place

to be for you to know that your beloved characters are... No? No, it's not. I'm just not scared. I mean, they have said throughout the years well you know we wouldn't do without you there is we couldn't

do the show without you yeah listen to that and think unless you really want to and then you'll do it yeah um but no no it's not a scary place for me because i don't want this to be a part of my life that way anymore right i have other stories and things i want to do i would imagine you are an a small group that have a unique perspective on these kind of major television phenomenon that come to an end, where in, like, your show was, again, so dissected that ending is still talked about to this day. Do you have, like, flashbacks when you see something like Game of Thrones end and see, like, the pop culture landscape explode with hot takes? You know, this is not going to sound the way I mean. I just don't watch that, those things.

right not that i don't watch them because i have any like snoddy attitude um i watched matt's show and i watch terry show and i watched uh queen's gambit and i've tried other things but i but i i sort of feel stupid saying this but i say it to every interviewer so they understand for four years my wife and i watch nothing good news uh when trump was in office and somebody just said to me the other day why did you do that to yourself but we didn't watch any fiction every minute that we were in front of a tv screen it was mbc fox news CNN back and forth boom boom boom boom um i relate i relate in a profound way it was like it was hard to not see the slow moving car crash happen for four years and it does feel like a

release now, doesn't it? Doesn't it feel like there's open space in our collective psyche? Open space. But then what I did after that, I got the criterion channel. Are you familiar with that? Of course. Yeah, yeah. After that, that's all I watch. There's so much great stuff from the past, something from the recent past, stuff from other countries, stuff from other countries you never heard of, commentary about directors that's all I do. I mean, when I watch television I keep thinking I need to break away from this

and watch them, I just can't. Look, when the greatest films are at a fingertip, why take a risk on something else? When you know there's a short thing waiting for you, I get it. When you look back at this experience, it's been a few years, what was the most joyful aspect of making this film? Was it the writing, being on set,

the editing in this process finally being ready to release it what do you take some pleasure of this film was a joyous part of this um two things well the socialization being every day with a group of people who's that i came you know that you come to like very much that was that was number one but that's not filmmaking us has nothing to do with our conversation I guess

editing and editing like it was with the sopranus editing and music yeah yeah really digging in and seeing what you can create in the edit room and massaging material

yeah thing you know they call film plastic medium that's the whole thing what if you take this at the end and put it at the beginning you know

people who haven't done that can't understand or don't understand how joyful that is when it hits. It's really like hitting the number in Blackjack or something. Right. Oh, yeah. There it is. Well, you probably can't separate yourself too much from it because you've seen, you've made the sausage yourself and you've seen the different iterations. But from my perspective, seeing the finished product, this film truly works.

And I'm in love with it and these characters and this. That's a huge relief. I know, I have to tell you. And who knows what's going to happen with it. But there's one thing about this film that I will say. Well, two things. One, it's a gangster movie. You don't have to have seen The Sopranos to enjoy this movie.

It's a solid gangster story with personal human dynamics. I forgot the other. That's enough. What do we do? It's a movie. It's not a movie. It's solid. It just, it doesn't, for the first time of my life, it doesn't like that go like that.

No, it's it's propulsive. It's a self-contained story. It's about two hours on the dots. And you fall in love with these characters as flawed and disturbing as some of them may be. It's a good journey to be on and it's hugely entertaining. And I hope you do feel some sense of relief after this journey. I work with really great people. This entire cast.

Alan Taylor, and then Bob Shaw, who I knew from Sopranos and Amy Westcott. I mean, just the best. It's been a true pleasure to get to know you, sir, today. I'm such a fan of your work, and truly, I'm very appreciative of your time today. Thank you again. And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person.

I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't pleasure to do this by Josh I'm Amy Nicholson, the film critic for the LA Times And I'm Paul Shear, an actor, writer and director You might know me from the League, Veep or my non-eligible for Academy Award role in Twisters. We love movies and we come at them from different perspectives. Yeah, like Amy thinks

that, you know, Joe Pesci was miscast in Goodfellas, and I don't. He's too old. Let's not forget that Paul thinks that Dude, too, is overrated. It is. Anyway, despite this, we come together to host Unspooled, a podcast where we talk about good movies, critical hits. Fan favorites, must-season, and case you miss them. We're talking Parasite the Home Alone.

From Greece to the Dark Night. We've done deep dives on popcorn flicks. We've talked about why Independence Day deserves a second look. And we've talked about horror movies, some that you've never even heard of a Conja and Hess. So if you love movies like we do, come along on our cinematic adventure. Listen to Unspooled wherever you get your podcast. And don't forget to hit the follow button.