Happy Sad Confused - David Gordon Green

Episode Date: October 5, 2023

He may have the most eclectic filmmaking career going, from indie dramas to R-rated comedies to horror, and David Gordon Green is here to talk about it all. #happysadconfused #joshhorowitz #davidgordongreen #theexorcistbeliever SUPPORT THE SHOW BY SUPPORTING OUR SPONSORS! MasterClass -- Go to MasterClass.com/HSC for 15% off! UPCOMING EVENTS! 10/9 -- Come see Josh and Josh Gad & Andrew Rannells at the 92nd Street Y in NYC! Virtual tickets available too. Get your tickets here! Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes of GAME NIGHT, video versions of the podcast, and more! To watch episodes of Happy Sad Confused, subscribe to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Josh's youtube channel here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

D.C. high volume, Batman. The Dark Nights definitive DC comic stories adapted directly for audio for the very first time. Fear, I have to make them afraid. He's got a motorcycle. Get after him or have you shot. What do you mean blow up the building? From this moment on,

none of you are safe. New episodes every Wednesday, wherever you get your podcasts. My whole career, I'm up and down and depressed and exhilarated and I'm happy and I'm sad and I'm always confused. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now. I'm Josh Horowitz. And today on Happy Say I Confused, it's a horror master. No, no. It's a stoner comedy king. No, no. It's an indie drama stalwart. Never mind. It's all of them in one package. It's the director of The Exorcist Believer, David Gordon Green on Happy Say I Confused.

Somehow for the very first time, hey, David, how's it going? It's going good, and I think your podcast describes me well, so it's supposed to be here, among, among others. You're in the white void. I'm speaking to you. You died, apparently, very apropos for Exorcist. You have passed into the Great Beyond. Yeah, I'm enjoying it so far. A lot of revelations, and I'm right here, but I'm also right behind you, so. Oh, gosh. So talk to me. Do you think the Exorcists? or Your Highness has more sacrilegious material? Which one is going to send you to hell quicker?

I think Your Highness will send me to hell quicker, but I think Believer has more sacrilegious material. Fair enough. Okay, so we're going to dig into all of it. We have the luxury of time on a podcast like this. Obviously, I know your work very well, but I want to contextualize for the audience. I alluded a little bit to the insane filmography.

Look it up for a good, just a good old time to see what David Gordon Green has done in his relatively young career still. You still have a long way to go. But, okay, let me summarize. There was 2000 to 2007. We're going to call the, I don't even know what years are we going to call these,

but this was George Washington, all the real girls, undertow, snow angels. This is when I first met Mr. David Gordon Green before I knew what depravity lay within him. Then we get R-rated comedy, David Gordon Green, Pineapple Express, the sitter, the aforementioned Your Highness, which I could spend the whole 14.

minutes on. Then we go, we go maybe a little bit of return to roots, a little Prince avalanche action, Joe, Manglehorn, somehow in there also is our brand is Crisis, the Great Stronger. We have some TV shows that we don't even have time to mention, Eastbound and Down, currently righteous gemstones, a return to comedy.

And the last seven years of his life, essentially, has been in horror because he needed to switch it up one more time with a trilogy of Halloween films. at the beginning of a trilogy, presumably of Exorcist films. Did I summarize it? Is your session over, David? Is that you? It's great job.

It's great. What I've missed is some of the hobbies that I used to have, because when your hobby becomes your career, it is a strange thing. So I haven't been playing near enough music or climbing near as many mountains as I would like to, but I've been making a lot of movies and having a ton of fun. And as you can see, keeping my career curious and colorful as a priority. But, and you, you know there's this fascination from folks like me with the career,

because most people don't do it this way. People try to mix it up to a degree, but I mean, I remember when the kind of the first clinical, you know, swerve happened and you started to do Pineapple Express, et cetera. I mean, presumably that wasn't a surprise to you. You contain multitudes like any human being, but like, was this always kind of the plan? Like, I'm going to, I'm going to try all the shit out. I'm going to express myself in every conceivable way. no i just don't know anything else i'm always my my entire career i will be still in film school

um still studying still learning from the masters still fucking up still um feeling my way through it and a lot of it's impulsive a lot of it's temperamental um uh sometimes it's a good business move or seems like a funny way that i could go buy a cool piece of real estate and you know i don't know it really is intuitive at this point, and I've been really, I have to say, I'm just really lucky to have a group of collaborators, many of whom I've been with since film school, 25, almost 30 years, I guess. And so we are still looking at each other for those types of encouragements and influence and double dog dare you to make something like that. And that's, I hope I always keep a sense of of childishness and playfulness to what I do.

It does seem like you've been very nimble and smart in many respects because like to look at those, you know, these last 20, 25 years in the career almost charts out different trends even we've seen in the business, right? Like when you kind of came of age, those are the kind of movies that were being made. There was more of an audience for that, especially in theatrical. And then, you know, I certainly miss kind of like that R-rated comedy boom that you are definitely at the forefront of. And now comedy's in TV. And that's where you're at in TV. So it definitely feels like you've been very like, you know, artistically true to yourself,

but also very mindful of what the business will let you make. Yeah. I think you have to be mindful. Or my friends that aren't mindful of the business aren't making a lot of things. And it's one thing to resent an industry or wish you, you wish you could make this type of thing, but nobody will find the money for that. And that happens all the time every day with everyone. And it's just a matter of saying, okay, what within my personal agendas, within my passions can I do that appreciates a business model right now because the second you're ignoring or condescending or not respectful of the fact that there is a many millions of dollar business behind an industry, you can make things all day, but nobody's going to see them. And I make plenty of projects like that and hope to still make art. projects that are less conscious of a market. But there are other times where I want to blow shit up and I want to make a good salary for myself. And I want to put my kids through college and real

life fun decisions that I can do within an industry that still accepts my eccentric qualities and acknowledges that I don't have a brand and I don't have a film by credit on any movie. And And those are things that I say proudly because I love the collective collaboration. For me, it honestly doesn't matter if I'm directing a movie or pushing a dolly or holding the boom mic. These are all things that I think are creative and impactful. And being with a group of creators in a room is how I want to spend every day. So I alluded to this.

You know, we have a long story in history. I first chatted with you nearly 20 years ago for a book that sold about 300 copies. that was a collection of interviews with young filmmakers. We're still very young, you and I, David. But I went back and revisited our conversation just to see where your head was at then. And here's some things you told me back then. Let's just revisit. I'm so curious.

Okay. I have the book on my bookshelf, but I haven't re-read it probably in 20 years. So this is just factual. This is nothing like, you know, opinionated. But like, I forgot this, that you were one of the first members of Blockbuster video. That is a true statement. I was the first member of the second Blockbuster video. That was fact-checked at a point, probably based on your book.

And someone corrected me and said, the first one was on Skillman. Yours was in Dowlish Village. That was the second of the flagship Blockbuster Video Stores. But I was the first. Do you remember the first what you rented? Yeah, I was overwhelmed. It was that, it was random. It was this Alpetino movie, author, author.

Oh, wow. That would not have been my top 500 guests. 10,000 movies. I didn't know what to do. You just started at A. You went to A. Yeah. Yeah. I went to A. I'm just starting. Totally. Totally. This was maybe your most controversial take you gave me. You told me back then that you preferred Iron Eagle over Top Gun.

Now, we live in a world now, David, where Top Gun saved us, saved us all from the end of humanity, the end of filmmaking. Do you want to revise your statement or you stick by it? I would revise my statement by my saying Top Gun Maverick is better than Iron Eagle. I love it. I saw it three times. I thought it was fantastic. I was, and always have been a bit of a contrarian in a playful way that then you say something that's kind of out of your ass and then you kind of lean into it a little bit. And I'm one of those kids that, that, you know, not necessarily to the point of conspiracy theory, but sometimes, you know, you got to be a little suspect. when every kid on Monday shows up loving this one movie, I got to be like, not so fast, guys. Yeah, yeah, you're the Mac and Me guy, not the ET guy.

A hundred Mac and me, and then the other one that I confused people with is when Platoon came out, I was all about death before dishonor. Oh, I thought you were going to go casualties of war. I've never even heard of death before dishonor. Oh, you got to go deep, you know, so that was interesting.

So I always played a little bit of the yin and yang for just some of it for fun. And then other times I'm like, why do people respond to that movie in that way? And I can't fucking fathom, but... Have you ever had the Tom Cruise meeting? Has David Gordon Green come close to it? I've never met Tom Cruise. God, it's on the bucket list, you know?

But I will say this. When the title for Top Gun Maverick was circulating, they're going to make a sequel to it, I raised my hand loud to my agent. And I said, just get me the meeting. Guess what meeting didn't happen. I did not get the meeting for Top Gun Maverick. Because I was just going to quote Iron Eagle to him, and nobody wants to hear about Chappie Sinclair.

Right. You know who would be great in this movie is Jason Gedrick. Get that guy. Then you're on to something. Wait, is it Chapman? Did I get the name right? Yeah. Chappi Sinclair.

Louis Gossett Jr. Yeah. You're talking to an Iron Eagle enthusiast, too. Don't worry. You're in a safe space. All right. It's good to know. I'm going to say.

You told me, this one is really impressive to me because in the years since, this is my favorite actor. This is my spirit animal. This is the man I always, I'm obsessed with. I'm proud to call him a friend and acquaintance now. But back then, nobody knew who this guy was. Your favorite actor in 2006, you said, was Michael Shannon. How was Michael Shannon even on your radar? I think this was before shotgun stories was even out.

Probably. Yeah, I first dialed into him. I'd seen some theater work he's done, but he has a line in Pearl Harbor where he says, I've got a girlfriend. And I was like, whoever says, that is my hero. And that's the line, and I died, and I thought, and I'm watching a movie starring all these movie stars, and that's the guy that got my attention. And ever since then,

you know, early in their careers, I would say there's three actors that I credit my own, my own intuition for falling in love with. Russell Crowe, when he did romper, stomper. I was in some of us, and I was like, there's this guy, and he's going to be the guy. John C. Riley, Casualties of War, you mentioned. John C. Riley in What's Eating Gilbert Grape? Oh, yeah. And when he's looking at the burger barn that's coming down the road in a funeral and he just doesn't inhale, I said, that's the guy.

He's going to be a part of cinema history, my cinema history. And, yeah, so those, it's the, and Michael Shannon. And those are, there's not a week goes by that I don't think about what's a movie I could, could do with Michael Shannon. He's as good as it gets. Yeah. And I know he's obviously in with Jeff Nichols, who I know you have a close association with. So you need to make that happen at some point. And the last thing I want to mention from our earlier conversation, we talked a lot of 80s action. And we talked a bit about your love of Schwarzenegger. You said you love Predator back in the day. This is one of the genres you've never done. You've never done kind of like the pure

action movie. Ironically, the movie with the most action is maybe Pineapple Express. It is ironic. I've tried. I wrote a script one time with my buddy Darius. We wrote a movie called One in the Chamber that we want, I mean, it's still circulates. Every year we'll dust it off, say, like, who's the guy that can do that? Who's the guy that can kick ass that has the testosterone? And when you see a movie like Maverick or, you know, there's movies that come out every now and that feel like, I'm trying to think of a recent one that feels, I mean, Liam Neeson kind of does these movies now, that feel formulaic in the right way. you know i want i want to see justice a very clear premise yeah i don't want to have to read the review after i've seen the movie and then see the movie again i want to know who who does what and and i want to feel that that um that adrenaline and there aren't a lot of movies that give me that adrenaline in a good guy bad guy kind of way anymore or they take two and a half hours and there's too many contrived plot points in it and i get confusing i get i get overwhelmed with um A lot of Marvel movies, not anything against them.

There's just, there's too much going on and I get over, I just, it's too much. There is this tendency now. I know, like, again, we're going to sound like old men here. But like back in the day, it's like you could do like a 9,500 minute like action movie that didn't have like three climaxes. And there is this like, I feel this obsession now with like, it needs to have four different fineries and they each have to get progressively bigger. And I'm like, if you just do one great, I'm happy.

Just rewatch code of silence and then make movies like that. And that's Invasion USA. and those are good. Okay, so Chuck Norris was your guy. Okay, a man of great taste. He's a good guy, yeah. Are you looking for a movie review show where the critic is at the top of his or her game,

meticulously breaking down and explaining exactly why a film does or does not work? Well, good luck with the search, because we're having fun here on Adam does movies. Each and every week, I hit the big blockbusters, I cover the streamers, and I even toss in some movie news for fun. Check out the show on Spotify, on Apple Podcasts, on YouTube. And hopefully, we can do movies together.

Hot. Goodbye, summer movies, hello fall. I'm Anthony Devaney. And I'm his twin brother, James. We host Raiders of the Lost Podcast, the ultimate movie podcast, and we are ecstatic to break down late summer and early fall releases. We have Leonardo DiCaprio leading a revolution

in one battle after another, Timothy Shalame playing power ping pong in Marty Supreme. Let's not forget Emma Stone and Jorgos Lantamos' Bugonia. Dwayne Johnson, he's coming for that Oscar in The Smashing Machine, Spike Lee and Denzel teaming up again,

plus Daniel DeLuis' return from retirement. There will be plenty of blockbusters to chat about two. Tron Aries looks exceptional, plus Mortal Kombat 2, and Edgar writes, The Running Man, starring Glenn Powell. Search for Raiders of the Lost Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,

and YouTube. All right, let's get into The Exorcists. Okay, man, this, congratulations. Again, look, you clearly are man without fear because taking on Halloween is one thing, and I love Halloween. The Exorcist is not only one of the great horror movies of all time. The Exorcist is one of the greatest movies of all time, period, end of sentence. I will put a top 10 among anything.

does did kind of tackling Halloween and the expectations of that kind of give you a little strength like I know like okay I know what I'm in for I know the slings and hours I'm going to have to tackle or was it kind of like hitting it from ground one ground zero all over again um you know the thing that Halloween had to offer on top of a joyous experience is is it put me in a place where I felt comfortable with both success and rejection in a way that I hadn't prior to that because you're never going to please every fan because everybody's walking into it

with the nostalgia that they had of some experience they had when they're 14 years old and you can't trigger that for them anymore. All I can do is reach to the new 14-year-olds. I can't reach to recreating what you felt when you saw something at a vulnerable period of your life. And I think if you look between 11 and 21, one, that 10-year period of you consuming culture, that's when the hormones in your body,

the chemistry in your body was taking things that were stimulating you and put it in an archive and said, this is who I am. And I can't fuck with that. And nor should you worry about me fucking with that. Because you'll love or hate it regardless, just in terms of if our DNA connects at that moment. But I got very comfortable with being me. I got very comfortable with telling my story in the sandbox that was sacred. and making it personal to me.

And so Halloween 3, for example, very divisive. People can feel the way they want to do. I was so excited to tell that story. I'm thrilled with the outcome of it. So as far as I get to check the boxes of my soul on my bucket list of creations, I got to do it. And they let me do it and it has its challenges in the universe, but so be it.

So what next? Can I mention that just before we move on? from that because there is that kind of like damned if you do damned if you don't kind of thing right like give them what they want and then they're like no I don't want that it like surprise me and then your third Halloween you're like okay I'm going to swear this isn't about Lori anymore yeah yeah and then then you get you know we can be honest here like it did fine box office wise you're happy but the reviews weren't as strong as the other two you saw that and it is what it is it's like okay I guess you can only be true to yourself in the story you that that as you say resonates with

you. And if you're comfortable as an artist with that and that's enough, you're okay. If you're looking for validation at a box office or a critic or the reception from a fan base or a unique audience, you know, but I've spent a lot of my time. You could look at my first film, which was really critically well received and you couldn't ask for a better introduction, but it was rejected from Sundance and nobody went to the box office and it made very little money and then had another life when criterion collection picked it up. And so my whole career, I'm up and down and depressed and exhilarated and I'm happy and I'm sad

and I'm always confused, you know? So the only thing you can do as a creator that's willing to put yourself out there and make yourself vulnerable to be true to yourself because, hey, I'm lucky to have a group of cohorts and collaborators that are going to stand by me through the good times and bad times and continue these creations.

But that's as, you know, you know, You can't, that circle of trust is the only thing that's really meaningful to me outside of my own intuition as a creative species. And you can't control the outcome, so you might as well make something that works for you and your collaborators that you guys are proud of. When I was making your highness with Danny McBride,

I thought I was gonna win an Oscar. I was like, who wouldn't wanna watch this movie? They're letting us film my opus, and this is my Fitzcaraldo, this is my Lawrence of Arabia, This is going to stand among the classics of all time. And boy, was I wrong. But I showed it to my 12-year-old kids now. I showed it to them a few months ago.

And I was like, I still don't know what anyone was thinking. Why would you write a, why would Roger Evert write a bad review of that movie? Because it's a masterpiece. David, I will say the one movie I watched in preparation for our chat today, I just, I put it on. I had to one more time. Yes. So, and I don't stand by everything I did. And I don't say that.

There's certainly some things that, like, I had a hard time rewatching Undertoe recently. Some things I'm very passionate about in it, but some things that I'm looking at being like, that was a choice you made, bud, like, you know, sort of should have taken a cold bath before that one. But so that those realities certainly are there. And I don't revisit movies very often, but there are, there are no regrets, I guess. And so I think the only reason I have no regrets is because there's not an outside force, a studio, a benefactor. someone saying, do this, don't do this, second guess yourself. There's a group of people that I trust that are sometimes saying, that's a bad idea.

Let's reevaluate or sleep on that idea before you do it. And when someone I really trust says that, I do do that. And when someone double dog dares me to do something, sometimes I'm balsy enough to do it anyway, you know. Well, thank God they're calling you on it. You don't want to get in that bubble where they're reinforcing all the bad decisions. That's the danger, right? I do. And I see a lot of my contemporaries that don't evolve in that way because I think they are self-proclaimed geniuses. And so the young group of genius supporters are there just to say, yes, sir, yes, ma'am. And I think that could be really dangerous where I think I have the right combative collaboration where we complement each other. We don't always agree. We're there to push and pull. And you've got at some point make your infinite creative trust. group finite. You've got to find out who it is and point to him and look them in the eye

and say, you're here today. You showed up. I trust you. So specifically on Exorcist. Okay. So it's been 50 years since the original. And look, several filmmakers have taken swings at sequels, at prequels. I mean, no less than, I mean, there was the infamous prequel that was shot twice. Rennie Harlan Paul Schrader, crazy. Blattie himself directed a sequel. Um, You know, when you went back, and I assume you went back to the original, I'm assuming it's ingrained in you as well, what did you see in there where there was opportunity? What excited you? Did you see immediately what your way into finding an exorcist story was?

Yeah, for me, and I think where horror is for me right now in culture and in my relationships is a way that I can make snow angels, that I can make something that's personal to me, that's meaningful to me. And in the case of the exorcist, it's about a buffet of belief. It's about bringing new perspectives and appreciating the opportunity of new perspectives in a combined initiative. And that's something that as I look into the world, I see those fractures and not enough those unities. And this is a way that I could tell a story that's not preachy, that's not got a message to it, but it's entertainment. And it's something that people around the world will turn their heads, if not buy a ticket to, when they hear about it.

And I think that's exhilarating for someone that's spent a lot of their time in the shadows of an industry or on the fringe of an industry, being able to make something about belief, about spirituality, about community in a way that dramatic filmmaking is. And the original film is as much as you could say, it's about possession. It's not a spectacular supernatural horror movie, it's an intimate, clinical, unnerving theological drama. Right. I was going to say, it's more drama than horror in a way, and that makes sense when you're referring back to Snow Angels. And again, like, it's so funny to hear you talk about community. I think about that film, I think that in your Halloween films, it keeps coming back.

It's clearly something that... It is. And, yeah, and those are things that I find value. The more I travel the world with my work, which is a huge... part of what keeps me going through the frustrations and the stress and the sleeplessness of what I do is that the exposure to the world and points of view and and belief and in a world where we feel I feel so many times everybody's stuck on a device and isolating themselves in a big comfy chair stuck at home on a computer communicating through text that they don't even know how to write that's frustrating to me what I love is a congregation what I love is a community what I love is is holding hands with with people, some of whom you love and adore and some of whom we've never met but feeling that connection. And I get to make a movie about that that's called The Exorcist. It's kind of cool.

There's no denying, you know, as a viewer, you get the goosebumps when Ellen Burstyn pops up on screen and more than pops up. I mean, you know, I'd heard like, oh, you only had her for a certain amount of time. And look, she's a woman of a certain age. I get that. But like, you actually, whatever time you had, you maximize that she's in this movie in a real way. Talk to me a little bit about, like, is there a plan B, if you can't? get Ellen Burstyn on board because she could easily have said I'm good oh I assume she would say

I'm good I you know part of it was um part of it was a great one of the things as a movie geek and just a fan of her work I'm my favorite film of hers is Alice doesn't live here anymore in the last picture show those two movies I want I so my thing was this gives me an excuse to call her and talk to her about those movies so just as you get to be a curious soul and and reach out to filmmakers and Michael Shannon and who I just saw his movie actually and love his directorial debut is amazing. Oh yeah, yeah, I haven't watched it yet. Yeah, yeah. Very powerful movie. Nice. So I'm always on those hunts, whether it be like, oh, that actor's directing something or Ellen Burston has been in so many of my favorite films. And now I have a reason to call her and

it's not just a random creepo bugging around the street. I actually get to sit down for tea with her and talk to her about what she's done and what I'd like her to do and is there a connection there and we've become really good friends. We met and I gave her a book that I was, I was excited about called The Infinite View and she told me about a book,

Conversations with God and a book, Cabluna, and so we're talking literature, we're talking the spiritual world and her journeys over the last 50 years, which in many ways mirror, our creation of Chris McNeil over the last 50 years. Because her association with the film The Exorcist

people bring a spiritual conversation or connection to her because she represents something based on that film's power. And so we wanted to kind of infuse that into a mother who's written a book based on her experience in Georgetown in

1973. We kind of connected those dots and sit with her who's legend, icon, sweet creative powerhouse and create this role for her that felt meaningful and appropriate and the, the, not necessarily essential from a movie going fan service standpoint, but for me, spiritually, taking the inspiration of Friedkin's movie as our influence, it felt like a huge opportunity if we could pull it off.

And we did. And to have her on set was a gift, and she, would always stay longer than she'd intended and and you know you have this crew I have this kind of wacky rascal group of artists and technicians I work with talking shit and having fun every day and then everybody gets silent as Ellen walks to set like where do we go with this goddess and then she's the first one to crack everybody up and lighten it up and really brought that the ease and informality of the collaboration to the to the to the the front lines of the production.

As you proceed with these, the plan is still potentially two more films in this in your run? There's a trilogy of Exorcism of films planned, and based on a lot of factors, we'll see if that, if the roadmap that we've kind of penciled in,

if that makes sense. But I think the next few weeks will be telling and how that will unfold. Is there interest in filling more of, and this film fills some of it in, filling in more of the gaps of, like, the last 50 years of, you know, obviously, you know, we're seeing de-aging use so much, and that's not so, that's costly.

But, like, a lot of the characters from that film, those actors aren't even around anymore, sadly. But, like, you know, I'd be lying if I said I didn't want to see more of Kairas and Kinderman and et cetera. Did you toy with that in this film or have you thought about using, seeing more of them in future installments? We thought about it and have a lot, I mean, we wrote a lot, Peter Sattler, another film school buddy of mine,

and I wrote the script after Danny McBride and Scott Teams and I wrote the story for it. And we have so many ideas. What I was worried about is the logistical burden of it and the gimmick of it. And this is not a, unlike Halloween, this is not a kind of Easter egg franchise for me. This is a bit different.

And I also don't think it's a sacred mythology in the way that some franchises can be. And although I really did like Dial of Destiny more than most people. I was pleasantly surprised with it. I thought that was well done. But I don't think this is that movie. I think this is a way if I have, if I'm to continue to steward this franchise, it's a way to travel the world and ask questions and be curious about what things that will never know,

but get perspectives of people that have seen things, felt things, experienced things that are unusual because I just love to get into it and ask questions and bring new buffets of philosophy to my beliefs. That being said, look, my only request, if you continue, look, the power of those steps in Georgetown, that gives you so much, just a shot or return, you're, you know, there's a lot there. There's a lot of power in that one image. Interesting and that's never been discussed. That's real... I'm not saying

it hasn't been discussed. I'm just saying I as a fan, this is my greedy request as I want to go back there one more time. That's really interesting. All right, that's where we'll start. Okay, correct, correct, correct, great. I'm Amy Nicholson, the film critic for the LA Times. And I'm Paul Shear,

an actor, writer, and director. You might know me From The League, Veep, or my non-eligible for Academy Award role in Twisters. We come together to host Unspool, a podcast where we talk about good movies, critical hits. Fan favorites, must-season, and case you miss them. We're talking Parasite the Home Alone. From Greece to the Dark Night. So if you love movies like we do, come along on our cinematic adventure. Listen to Unspooled wherever you get your podcast.

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Wherever you get your podcast. Unless you get them from a snack machine, in which case, call us. Okay, it's official. We are very much in the final sprint to election day. And face it, between debates, polling releases, even court appearances. It can feel exhausting, even impossible to keep up with. I'm Brad Milkey. I'm the host of Start Here, the Daily Podcast from ABC News. And every morning, my team and I get you caught up on the day's news in a quick, straightforward way that's easy to understand, with just enough context so you can listen, get it, and go on with your day. So, kickstart your morning. Start Smart with Start Here and ABC News because staying informed shouldn't feel overwhelming. Okay, so backtracking as we jump around. Early in the career, I remember Terrence Malick was often referred to as an influence, seen in your early work. He even helped Stewart, I believe, Undertoe, produced Undertoe.

Is Terrance still in your life? Has he seen Your Highness or Halloween? I haven't talked to him in a few years. I got an email through someone else a couple of weeks ago with a greeting from him, which was really nice. But not acknowledging if he's seen any of my horror films. But it was awesome, man. You know, it's so cool, as you know,

when you meet someone that has been inspiring to you, you never know what's going to happen. And there's people that I've met that were idols and inspirations that were disappointed. and he's one that was profound. So that was really amazing. Although he did one time when we were making undertow, I'm filming a very intimate scene on the intercoastal waterways of Georgia.

And it's a whispered scene. And I hear him very loud, ruin the take by going, oh, the looms are mating. And you have to go, Sh, Terrence. Can I get a camera on those. Yeah. So having him on set. There's a leaf floating.

I need to capture this. Yeah, having it once said is both a blessing and a liability. So, okay, I apologize. I keep going back to Your Highness, but I can't help myself. But talking about those films back in the day, Your Highness, Pineapple Express, the sitter, Your Highness, especially, edgy is one word for it. There's some stuff in there that would not fly today. Like, for whatever reason, you probably would not be able to get away with what you made back then.

But you look at any movie, what was that, I don't know, I was watching Stepbrothers the other day, which just seems like a very normal everyday... There's some language in there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's hysterical, but there's some things that you can't say today. So that's one of the reasons I think the world of theatrical comedy is really quiet right now is because people don't know what the next sensitivity is necessarily. And if you're a guy like me that's sensitive in his own right and empathetic to people around

the world of any thought, I don't want to piss anybody off. I just want to make funny shit. And I've got a weird sense of humor, so who knows what's going to come out. does does the TV work the work on righteous gemstones eastbound back uh about a decade ago did that has that scratched that comedy itch to a degree yeah to a degree but but but you still want to be in a congregation if you're me i want to go to the theater i want to see shoulders and heads bounce and and people look to each other should i be laughing is like i'll never forget seeing welcome to the dollhouse in the theater for the first time and i'm cackling like a fucking maniac

and looking around. That's a different experience at home alone versus a new theater. People want permission to laugh. And I don't necessarily, I can't control. I was just doing an interview 20 minutes ago with Jason Blum and he said something. I was like trying not to laugh. It was so funny, but then it's inappropriate to laugh. And that's when like farting in church becomes the greatest thing ever because those

holding in laughter moments are just unbelievable. And we should be so lucky to be able to have a sense of humor in a world. that is jamming us with so much cynicism and so much skepticism about our neighbors and our community and the philosophies of others and we're trying to pick teams for fucking whatever reason like let's let's have a bit of a sense of humor about it and you know sure you got to be old careful but but I think if you can justify an intention of joy of amusement and not be at the expense of someone then then you should be safe to do it I don't know and your highness I just know was made under the auspice of pure joy of people that love each other and are making each other

laugh and are ruining takes because they're so funny. And then the greatest moment of, I have never stopped laughing about the barbarian saying, step back new friends, I'll lead the way for tonight. Evil's Metis match. Once that performer said those lines on set, I have not been the same. there's always a part of my stomach that's still jiggling and laughter from whatever 12 years ago when we were filming that in Northern Ireland and it's not even a joke there's not a joke in that movie it's just stupid shit whatever Thoreau is doing deserves all the awards as far as I'm concerned oh my gosh yes so many so many lines probably unquoteable certainly is masterful performance there do you okay talk about things that are executable that there's an audience that there's an audience for that you could get money for. I mean, I would imagine Max or HBO or whatever we're calling it would beat down your door and have for the last 10 years for more Eastbound, more Kenny Powers. What's up?

Like, do you and Danny not talk about this? Because you could make whatever you want with that character, I would think, at this point. Yeah, but you can make whatever you want with anything. And so I guess it is a, it's a blend. And we talk about this a lot, particularly rebooting franchises and delving into preexisting IP and things like that. if you're going to give us a platform where we can maximize our creativity without having a lot of

people shake their heads or say no, that's what we want. And so sometimes that comes under budgetary constraints. Sometimes it comes under calling it something so that then that allows for the marketing machine to do what it needs to do, to be respectful of the business side of the industry. And so you always gauge those parameters of what you're trying to do. Something like eastbound, I think was a moment in time. It was a pre-Trump moment in time where toxic masculinity wasn't a term. It was just something absurd and ridiculous

to look at from an objective Southern man's point of view. And the humor of it, I think if you were to turn that up now or introduce that now, people would be upset with it. Because we've seen such a negative avalanche of similar type figures. that we wouldn't want to put a Kenny Powers on a t-shirt anymore but if we look at who he was in that moment um where we had a it was a different world and and i think that's that's a really special thing to have been a part of those moments and see a show like that that went from a

what the hell are we going to do with this show why did we even make it to a success story season after season building a fan base to i would i would imagine more people saw that show after it was after the four years when we when we completed making it then saw it while it was air in the first place. But you're right. I could see a scenario where that character comes back and is taken up by folks cheering on this character for the wrong reasons and not getting the joke. Well, that was always the fun even making it, is because you could see, you know, you could see so many very different types of people get a sense of humor out of it. Like, people would come in, a high five and say, hey, man, thank you for making the show about people like me. And you're like,

okay and then other people would be like have a little bit more of an academic introspective version interpretation of the subversive qualities of the show because it it is pretty surreal um and it and is it's vulgar as all hell and it's strange and it was also at a time where there weren't um serialized half hour comedy shows that was we got that from or i mean i say we danny and ben and jodi created that show i was just along for the ride and enjoyed directing but they created that show in the the wake of the British office, which had kind of introduced that concept to a modern sensibility. But other American shows weren't doing that. And that was kind of controversial to

think, oh, you have to watch episode one before episode four. That was, it was funny to think that that that was like a pioneer of those conversations in the industry. I'm kind of surprised that in this, you know, apprehension, eclectic career, I could not find even like, in a Google search, David Gordon-Green associated, rumored for a comic book movie at some point. Have you never taken the meeting, been up for a Marvel or DC project? No. Strange. No.

Isn't that weird? No. Well, I mean, but, you know, I think you look at that and you see a kid that's, I say kid, I'm 48, 40, whatever I am. But, like, I think it's a bombastic career with someone without a lot of supervision. I think I have a very strict professional discipline and I'm always on time and I'm always on budget and these types of things that I adhere to and the reason people continue to hire me is because I say this is what you're going to get and this is what you get.

But I think there's a huge empire of a franchise and to that degree that are so costly, so expensive they have to check a lot of boxes and I do commercials that are fun and you and you have those types of panels of experts that are letting you know when you've got the shot or when you need to move on or you've got what you need for the professional requirements of the agenda. But I just, I think I'm too ridiculous for that. I'm too playful and I want to be the one that says we've got it. We're moving on now. And that's, that's my only request. I'm surprised. Like in a world where like James Gunn does Guardians and a celebrated for it, it's not that far afield to think David Gordon Green could do something irreverent with a comic book character.

Do you have that appetite? Is there a character that you've ever daydreamed about taking a swing out? I honestly don't know. If you were to say, pick a comic book character, I would pick Little Lulu. I wouldn't pick like a Marvel character. I'm your agent now. No, David, no, no, no. Oh, I like Dennis the Menace and Richie Rich and that kind of.

Getting a little better, not much better. All right. Peanuts. I don't know. David. Well, we'll walk fine on this. Yeah. I just think I just think I look at things a little bit differently. And I also want to minimize, this is just from the efficiency of a workday. I want to minimize visual effects logistics. Like, I can't wrap a scene that was shot entirely on green screen. And I've done it a few times. And I feel confident about it because I don't know what it's going to look like, how the foreground relates to the background, what the color temperature is, what the lighting's like. Those those, those, those, those, those kind of question marks make me really insecure. Maybe it's because I haven't done it a lot,

but I just feel like I love an exorcist movie because it's a very practically executed movie. There's some visual effects in it, and we use it quite a bit to augment things and to clean up and the heel and reveal of some of the practical effects. But I want Christopher Nelson and his makeup team bringing this to life. I want my art department with their sleeves rolled up, kick it ass in building sets, and I want to shoot as much practically as possible. And I think for some of those more spectacular DC universe, Marvel universe kind of movies, that just, it's impossible to do. And I think I'd be more interested in

like the Roger Corman Fantastic Four approach. Where does Star Wars fit in, David? There have been rumors that you are developing a Star Wars project. That has, you know, I've met with some folks there, but I've never, there's never, been a project or an idea. And those kind of meetings are fun because I do know a lot about at least the old Star Wars movies. And those are really fun. And a very strong part of my excitement as a kid watching movies was those movies. I mean, I can remember the Chucky Cheese tokens when I was standing in line for Return of the Jedi the Wednesday after it was released.

And I'm still waiting in a line. My mom went and got tickets early in the morning. I'm there for an 8 o'clock show and a guy gave me a shitload of Chucky Cheese tokens and I couldn't decide whether I'm going to stand in line with this anticipation of this movie or I was going to go to Chuckie Cheese and play video games and I just held the bag of tokens filled my pockets and went the next week. So they do, but the reality is again that the mechanism I think might look at me too skeptically. So, you know, like anything, like there's executives that want to know who's out there and what they're thinking and hey, he's dusted off a Halloween franchise where he's working on an exercise franchise.

I wonder if he's got something creative to bring to the table. But my impulses are always pretty eccentric. And I'm trying to imagine what corner of Star Wars would appeal to David Gordon Green. I would be very curious, too, of where that would go, you know? But I don't know. I would never say no because every time I say never

is when I get the phone call that makes me excited about something. And so I've learned those lessons. I'm excited. McBride and I are trying to do an animated series based on the Garbage Pale Kids cards. Have you ever had those cards? Of course. Yeah, yeah. So we're working on that and we've got some really cool ways that we can make a pretty naughty animated show, see if they'll have us on that one. So there's certainly, I use that as an example of like pulling something out of IP and playing, me taking a, but making it personal and making

what appeals to me about it, not necessarily just engineering it for, everyone in the world. I guess that's what it gets hard for me is trying to make everyone happy where I want to take, I want to have a point of view and I want to make something pretty specific and passionate. And you, look, we've talked about

all the different kinds of projects you've worked on. You're one of those guys on Wikipedia that literally has a page devoted to the unproduced David Gordon Green projects, many of which I've talked to you about in different forums over the years and I've read about, is there one in particular that you are desperate to still drag out the script that you still love and adore and feel passionate about um i mean i i haven't

seen this wikipedia page that you're referring to but there's probably 11 of them like i don't know i'm just a passionate person and i wake up wanting to and i don't i don't ever put a project to bed and think i dodged a bullet you know um but i also don't have any regrets of what i've done News Flash, the Cronkite movie, Confederacy of Dunces, was it was around forever, Friday Night Lights. Yeah, Confederacy of Dunst is a great example of a project that got so caught up in a panel of decision makers that I felt like I'm just a part of the committee

and that one just didn't make sense at the time, but it was a brilliant script by Scott Kramer and Steven Soderberg and took New Orleans for seven years living there, hoping that movie would be made. And there was just never the circumstances that we're going to make it in a healthy way. for me, but that's a cool one, but, but like any movie, it's a lot of its cultural timing, right? Like, when is somebody going to give you the right amount of money and the right

cast available? Anybody can go make a movie. You know, we can, we can turn our phones and get to work, but, but I, I don't know, it's about timing. Like a movie like Prince Avalanche wouldn't exist without the sitter. Like, I do something big and, and expensive and the logistics of New York City and you're running. And then let's strip it all down. 13 days. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Let's go to the woods and make a movie. And so every project is kind of a reaction to the last one. And I always want to take bold swings with my career. And I'm not necessarily at this point so concerned with commercial success and public acceptance, although I do want to make movies for an audience to go to the movie theaters and see um that is an agenda so i want to always have some sort of hook at least in my heart that this is going to end up in a movie theater um i think people will see this one they should a reminder folks uh the exorcist believer is david's latest work uh man you know i love

what you do big or small weird the weird the better go check out your highness again guys it's an undiscovered masterpiece um david thanks for doing the podcast at last and I look forward to our many conversations to come. Thanks, buddy. You're talking again. And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts.

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