Happy Sad Confused - David Leitch & Kelly McCormick (THE FALL GUY)

Episode Date: May 2, 2024

The filmmaking team of director David Leitch and producer Kelly McCormick are responsible for some of the biggest action movies of the last decade, from JOHN WICK to ATOMIC BLONDE to DEADPOOL 2 and now THE FALL GUY. David and Kelly also happen to be married. They join Josh to talk about their journey through filmmaking and why THE FALL GUY is such a passion project for them both. SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS! ZocDoc -- Go to ⁠ZocDoc.com/HappySad⁠ and download the Zocdoc app for FREE! BetterHelp -- Visit ⁠BetterHelp.com/HSC ⁠today to get 10% off your first month UPCOMING LIVE EVENTS ⁠Cabaret (Eddie Redmayne and Gayle Rankin) May 20th in NYC -- ⁠Get tickets here⁠ Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes, video versions of the podcast, and more! To watch episodes of Happy Sad Confused, subscribe to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Josh's youtube channel here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

During the Volvo Fall Experience event, discover exceptional offers and thoughtful design that leaves plenty of room for autumn adventures. And see for yourself how Volvo's legendary safety brings peace of mind to every crisp morning commute. This September, lease a 2026 XC90 plug-in hybrid from $599 bi-weekly at 3.99% during the Volvo Fall Experience event. Conditions apply, visit your local Volvo retailer or go to explorevolvo.com.

D.C. high volume, Batman. The Dark Knight's definitive DC comic stories adapted directly for audio for the very first time. Fear, I have to make them afraid. He's got a motorcycle. Get after him or have you shot. What do you mean blow up the building? From this moment on,

none of you are safe. New episodes every Wednesday, wherever you get your podcasts. You have worked so hard to make your business into a reality. But achieving your next business goal, that can be overwhelming. What if you had someone to talk through the options of the next steps with? Someone who wants to see your business succeed while giving you peace of mind. That's why the bankers at Merchens Bank are here.

Ready with exceptional service every step of the way. Let's dream together. Visit Merchantsbank.com to get started. Merchants Bank is a proud member FDIC. If John Wick hadn't worked, would you have felt like, oh, I never got to do. Yeah, I mean, I think we were laying it all out on the field. We didn't, you know, we didn't rest. Like, we wanted, that was a small budget movie, and we wanted to make sure the stakes were high for us.

Like, we really wanted to be directors and we wanted to tell these stories. And you only get one shot at your first impression. And John Wick was it. And I'm glad we delivered because it's been a really fun journey to continue telling us. stories at this scale now. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now. I'm Josh Horowitz, and today on Happy, Sad, Confused.

You've probably heard the buzz building, and I can tell you it's real. The Fall Guy is one of the most entertaining films I've seen in a very long time. The charisma and skill of Ryan Gosling and Emily Blunt are a big part of that, but today we're going to give props to the real husband and wife team behind it. Producer, Director David Leach, and producer,

Kelly McCormick. Their combined credits include John Wick, Atomic Blonde, Deadpool 2. And for decades, David's bumps and bruises, he's accumulated as a stuntman in countless movies you've loved. I am thrilled to welcome Kelly and David to the podcast for the first time today. Welcome, guys. Thank you, Josh. Yeah, it's good to be here. It's great to have you. Full transparency, because, like, there are no eyes here. This is Take 2 on our podcast. Sometimes it happens. We had a really shitty Zoom connection, a great conversation. But this is how much I want to encourage people to see this movie and hopefully how much you tolerated me that we're giving another go here today.

Oh, no, we love it. We love talking to you, Josh. And we're excited that you want to spread the news about how fun for all guys. So, so first on the note of what we just went through, what's the worst technical snafu you've ever been on a film? Have you ever lost a day's footage, a hair in the lens, something that really just drove you insane? You know, it feels like every day there's like some challenge, you know, that you're trying

to overcome as a director. I think that's part of like we tried to infuse that into Emily's character on the movie. Like she feels the mistakes of movie making, that's to the highest degree. But I'm trying to think of a technical glitch. I don't know. I remember, yeah, I don't have an anecdote on my tip of my tongue right now. That's okay. I, you know, we've talked before, and I told you how I got a chance to see this at Southby, and South by is a great atmosphere, but you need the goods, and this movie brought the goods.

And, like, that audience basically tore down the theater or was just about ready to, um, before we get the gas, yeah, it must have been such a gas for you guys. I'm just curious, like, before we get to Fall Guy in particular, like growing up, you know, we're all movie lovers here. Is there, is there a cinematic experience you remember growing up that kind of, I don't know, you think back to that said, like, this is why I go to the movies? Yeah, mine isn't, I was a little older, but I was at Sundance covering it for one of my jobs. And I, you know, what happens at Sundance stays at Sundance. I may have been up all night long and I still went to see the first screening of

Little Miss Sunshine, which was first thing in the morning, like eight, you know, those 8 a.m. screenings. And I was like, I probably still stank of the night before. You know what I was like? sleeping cat's pajamas and the movie plays and I was just like oh my gosh what an awesome film like it just was so fun it was such a special screening um that's just when I remember when you ask it was just a moment for me I totally remember those festival experiences yeah I was there at sundance seeing like opening night of whiplash and like who the hell is damien chiselle what is this and then just

like movie movies changed forever in that moment those are great yeah yeah for you I mean is there I mean, like, you make these great popcorn movies. This is your bread and butter. You make audience movies. I would imagine some of the blockbusters we grew up with. Do any jump out at you that blew your brain apart? Well, I am that they are sort of fake in the DNA of me as a filmmaker. I mean, I'm of HBO sort of the baby.

And I remember getting HBO at our house and watching lethal weapon on a loop, you know, because like there was no parental control at that time. So Project Legal Weapon and Die Hard and, you know, those 80s, 90s movies that really affected, you know. And I mean, again, obviously there are touchdowns for fall got. I mean, there's elements of comedy and action and sort of great relatable character in the middle. And so, yeah, those are definitely in the movie. Yeah, we, I grew up on a dirt road in the middle of nowhere in Michigan. and there was a sort of, you know, second play theater that we'd go to on Tuesdays,

and then the weekends were for either a matinee, and it was like a double-feature day a lot of times, but it was like, you know, going to the big town, like 30 minutes away to just spend the whole day at the theaters and see things like romancing the Stone and, you know, the Raiders, just the most amazing experiences. I mean, it's why I wanted to get into the film business for. sure. Well, you, as I've told you, you've made one of these that really recalls for me. Like, it brought me right back to when I was a kid watching those Richard Donner, Robert Zemeckis, Spielberg. I mean, really, it's just like a really satisfying, fun action comedy that doesn't get made, like, at all, period, anymore. And to see it done well was so, so pleasing as a movie buff.

Because, I mean, I mean, you must have thought about this. Like, we're just talking reminiscing about, like, what the movies we saw as kids, like, they're going to be 12-year-olds. that like see this eight times and it's going to kind of rock their world and it's going to be kind of the first like you know action movie that's kind of in their DNA that's kind of what it's all about isn't it to get that. Yeah, our lawyer

our lawyer brought her eight year old to early screening that we had like a couple of weeks ago and he said and he's quite a like he watches a lot of TV and he writes screenplays I mean he's a pretty special kid actually like already has a penchant toward storytelling But he said, that is the best movie I've ever seen. And I want to see it again, again, and again.

And it was so cute. It was so cute. I hope that there are many out there like Henry. I think there will be. Let's talk. Okay, so look, I grew up with the Fall Guy. I'm in that demo. Actually, I watched that show.

I knew it. The name Fall Guy, let's be real, it's, that's not the important part of this movie. I mean, at least the IP isn't important to this movie necessarily. It's a nice kind of Easter egg for folks of my age. I guess. But I'm curious as you were developing this and putting this all together, like, was there a debate like, do we even call this the fall guy? Does it need, like, do we need the trappings of that movie? Like, how much do we need to lean into it or not? Yeah, actually, there was a big debate because it's a splits right situation, which you never want when you're making a franchise. It means that television rights are somewhere else. I see. Okay. Yeah. Television rights are at 20th and the film rights had five. Colin out of Warner and they had remained split. So there was a big debate on if we needed it or not. It's such a great title, though.

You know, just the, I mean, can you eat it? Just that what it is. Yeah, yeah. For all, also, for all the different meetings in our film. And then also just the TV series was a series that put the fuse of a lot of stunt performers of David's generation. So to grab the title was kind of for legacy's sake for, you know, those David's friends and really, you know, sort of like brothers and sisters

in the stunt community that came with a big responsibility to make sure that we did them proud. But it kind of felt like we couldn't let it go for those reasons. Gotcha. David, for you, I mean, being a stunt performer for decades, I mean, this is the culmination in many ways of like bringing everything together, all your skill sets in one movie. And it's got to feel like a real privilege and also a responsibility because this is like as unadulterated a love letter to what you've done for decades in that community that has almost never gets the light shining on them. I don't know what's it felt like to kind of like have this opportunity to really like shine the light that never gets shown on these men and women. It's been really,

it's been feeling really rewarding and special and a privilege actually. I think to be able to come in and direct a movie about something that I know so much about. Not only a stunt performer, but the behind the scenes world of making a movie, that just life, that, you know, that whole world. Like, you don't realize, like, when you direct, like, how, you know, you direct the movie about assassins your create, your manufacturing world, but I'm not directing a movie about

some performers and the making of a movie. It's like, it's a gift because I know we, can just there's just a well of anecdotes and minutia in detail that it's just really fun to dig into and I don't I really love telling stories in this world and um look it's been great to like celebrate stunts and and sort of bring some more awareness to the artistry than you know of what we create for people you know what we create for cinema and that's really special that we get to highlight that in this film what I would imagine this also does feel personal for that reason, but also, look, it is a relationship

story. It is, it is at its heart. That's why it works. The characters played by Emily and Ryan. And obviously, you guys are a couple on it, you know, for work and also just like in real life. So does it feel like when you see this film, it's a big popcorn silly movie, of course, but like, do you still see like aspects of your own relationship, personal lives, somehow that bled into this? I mean, I think so. I mean, I think you can't, you know, having, you know, we didn't fall in love on a movie set, but we fell in love in the movie business.

And I think that, you know, sharing the magic of movies is part of the thing that keeps us together and, like, that brought us together, I should say, and probably keeps us together. And so I look at their story a lot, like it's, you know, our story in some ways, you know, but that's me. I don't know how Kelly feels. How do you feel as the creator-producer? I think that you're right that the movie doesn't work without the love story. I think you're 100% right about that.

I think it was really awesome in focus groups at test screenings to hear so many people say, I want more of the romance. This movie, it's very easy, especially with an action director, to have the action take over and kind of topple the film with how amazing the action is. And without that sort of like imperfect, like really, you know, sweep of a messy, modern, complicated love story, it just, I don't think it would have resonated in the same way. And which is a huge testament to David's directing, he is an action director. And for him to have pulled off the biggest stunt in the show of telling a romance is very special to watch and

reminds me how amazing he is. I'm curious. The big deflection on whether your real relationships in there. I noticed that, Kelly. Very smart. Very smart. I want to talk about... I've never set him on fire. I've never said a lot. Not yet.

Not yet. Yay. Gosling is, they're all amazing in this. Gosling's amazing in this. I love this era of Ryan Gosling. I feel like he was kind of like, I've always loved his work, of course, but like I feel like he's kind of, I don't know, opened himself up into like being the movie star that we know he is capable of being in recent years. And this is like just uses all his powers so well. Is this the first time you tried to develop anything with Ryan as this? And can you talk to me a little bit about how hard it was or not so hard to get him involved

as a participant? Well, he was the first person we went to with just a pitch. And, you know, the reason why we did is because it turns out a stunt performer is one of the best underdog hero stories you could ever tell. You know, they go to set, they risk it all every day, and yet their job is to hide their face. So it sets up this perfect kind of underdog sort of connectable arc for a character. And I, you know, honestly, of the many talents of Brian Gosling, he is incredibly connectible and he is so beautifully vulnerable

that he can play that underdog arc in such a pitch-perfect way. So thankfully he agreed or else we probably would have just like thrown the whole project away. It does feel like he's like one of these... Yeah, it does feel like he's one of these actors that's smart enough or it's in his DNA

that he likes to, like, as much as, you know, I'm sure it's Enigo Boo still look cool and suave, like revels in being kind of the idiot and kind of being the, as you say, the underdog. and not being afraid to make fun of himself and use those gifts in a comedic way, which is really what makes them all the more damn charming. What a jerk. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, you know, he's, look, he does it all, you know, for this one, we did it all for the audience. And I think the underdog story, the Rocky story was one of the models, right? Like, you're one of root for this character. There's not a lot of action actors that could pull that off. like Kelly said, the vulnerability and then the charisma and, like, making him equal part wish fulfillment and fun to laugh at at the same time. And, like, that's a hard, it's a hard needle to thread. Yeah.

But he's, you know, again, like has so many skill sets. Speaking to the collaboration, when he came on board early on, he said, I would like to make this if possible. These three things, a romance and action and a comedy, because I've done a lot of romance. I know what works. I've done comedy. I'm feeling really strong at it. I just did this action movie. I want to take a little swing at it.

And I believe that if we put all these into this film, it could be really entertaining for the audience, and I can use all the tools in my toolbox and be this character. So then we started to write with that in mind for the tone. Like that was really sort of something he laid down early on. It was very aware of it as an actor, like what he wants to do. and what he's good at and how to make it work for the audience.

David is one of the most, you know, collaborative directors maybe in the world. He is so nimble and flexible and sort of like, you know, knows the pillars of production and knows some core things that he wants that then allows for this flow and sort of demands a partnership.

Ryan is somebody who is like more is never enough anyway also. And so it's like more and more and more and more and more and better ideas. And so they're beautifully coordinated that way where it's like they just want to make sure that they're ringing it as tightly as they can to get the best out of every, even every syllable, let alone every word. And that was a beautiful partnership to watch and watch evolve and then allow for the movie to be evolving along the way too. And then Emily just kind of compounds that in a sense. This episode is brought to you by Square. You're not just running a restaurant, you're building something big.

And Square's there for all of it. Giving your customers more ways to order, whether that's in-person with Square kiosk, or online. Instant access to your sales, plus the funding you need to go even bigger. And real-time insights so you know what's working, what's not, and what's next. Because when you're doing big things, your tools should to. Visit square.ca to get started. Hey, Michael. Hey, Tom.

Big news to share it, right? Yes, huge, monumental, earth shaking. Heartbeat, sound effect, big. Mait is back. That's right. After a brief snack nap. We're coming back. We're picking snacks.

We're eating snacks. We're raiding snacks. Like the snackologist we were born to be. Mates is back. Mike and Tom, eat snacks. Wherever you get your podcast. Unless you get them from a snack machine, in which case, call us. And what's beautiful about her is she's a bit of a divining rod where she knows exactly where

she wants it to be and land for her moments. And it can flow around her and she can flow with it, but she's going to say these are the things that really work along the way. She's very confident in that way. And that allowed for this beautiful combination of just real gifts and skills, you know, with storytelling and crafting characters. Okay, it's official. We are very much in the final sprint to election day.

And face it, between debates, polling releases, even court appearances. It can feel exhausting, even impossible to keep up with. I'm Brad Milkey. I'm the host of Start Here, the Daily podcast from ABC News. And every morning, my team and I get you caught up on the day's news in a quick, straight, forward way that's easy to understand, with just enough context so you can listen, get it, and go on with your day. So, kickstart your morning. Start Smart with Start Here and ABC News, because staying informed shouldn't feel overwhelming.

You know, you're still, look, you've got a lot of movies to go, but in this relatively young directing career, I keep seeing, like, these great actors also keep returning to you. And obviously, these relationships are so powerful. speaks to the collaborative nature of what you're doing. I mean, Aaron Taylor Johnson comes back after bullet train and this. And, you know, a lot of what we were just talking about, Ryan, I feel like could apply to Aaron, too, like a guy that's like, movie star, of course, has the physicality, unbelievable. But it's just willing to kind of like, fuck with it and tweak it and make fun of himself. And this character is so bananas and such like kind of like the perfection of like asshole actor movie star.

I mean. And I know people are going to say, and let's just put it down for the record, he may sound like Matthew McConaughey. It's not Matthew. Matt, we love Matthew McConaughey. We love Matthew McConaughey. Well, he was playing. That's only the space cowboy character that Tom Ryder is playing where you hear that.

And I think it's really, it was this choice that he was talking about of like how he could do something that was equally good and bad as Tom Ryder's performance, you know, like, and so it is equally sort of like over the top, but it's actually really a good, sort of, like, cowboy swag. It's cowboy sort of like tang, so I don't know. Twang, yeah. Twang, twang, it was, it's fine. There was no disrespect.

I think his whole, him signing up was such a bold choice for him and so exciting to us. You know, the, he's supposed to exhibit. toxic celebrity, right? And what better villain than that kind of, you know, because it's pretty gross. And then he took it to 11 and he took it and gave it such character and swagger and awesomeness. And we're just so thankful that he joined us. So is Aaron Taylor Johnson your pick for Bond? He seems to be the frontrunner at the moment. He's our pick. We know nothing, but he's absolutely our pick. You know, we hope like, I mean, again, like they got to do what they got to do. but like if they need any they need any resume you know they could call us because he's amazing

I mean and if they want to make it a package deal you're available you're probably not available actually you're very busy but you would make yourself available I take it yeah make ourselves available we would direct upon with Aaron Taylor Johnson and he's amazing like we never really got like in terms of his action prowess like I feel bad on bullet train we got to do a little bit of stuff and Brad me had then one fights him ladybug and you know he does a little bit here but not much like he is so talented physically like he would make the best james bond and he's such a great actor for creating characters and like we look we would we'd do anything there and so looking forward to more collaborations with

there it's it's look there's a lot is opined about kind of the bad trends in movies and and the stuff we don't get to see but one one good trend and and fog guy uh continues that i feel like is that audiences seem to be responding to practical effects whenever possible, right? I mean, you look at, I mean, Mad Max, there's some CG there, but there's a lot of practical stuff. Top Gun Maverick, obviously. I'm sure you guys did everything you could practically that you possibly could. I'm curious, like, from like a producer perspective or a director perspective, like, is practical more or less expensive than CG? Is it that much harder to do it practically?

Depends is the answer. But, you know, like we, by the way, everything everywhere all at once is a really big deal of practical action. But we did, you know, our smaller films don't have the CG budgets to be able to do the kind of action that we're doing in those with a lot of C2G. Like a lot. Like nobody gave by the night, the one we're doing with QaQan now. And so you have to capture a lot in camera and you have forces sort of like those muscles and those scales. to be at the top level. You know, for us and David in specific, like, you know, practical action is back.

You know, I mean, by the way, it's back in John Wick, too, you know, like such a huge reason. I think why that has such a huge following is a lot to do with how connective the action is. But, you know, this one allowed us to do a certain action that, you know, would often be taken over CG. Is it more expensive? Is it less expensive? It's marginal, to be honest,

but the sort of euphoria of doing it, of giving these stunt performers an opportunity of making their dreams come true and of the energy that I think is reflected within the film that then I think permeates into the audience is worth it for us, for sure. Totally. You mentioned John Wick.

David, I first met you on the set, of John Wick actually the first John Wick which was at the time no studio it was part of it at least was being shot on a Brooklyn sound stage I visited you guys you and Chad and Keanu that must have felt I don't know you tell me was did that feel like a make or break kind of moment in your career you obviously had this very successful career as a stunt performer second unit directing you were doing a shitload of amazing work but like was something missing with that if John Wick hadn't worked would you have felt like I never got that to do.

Yeah, I mean, I think we, we were laying it all out on the field. We didn't, you know, we didn't rest. Like, we wanted, that was a small budget movie and we wanted to make sure it was, the stakes were high for us. Like, we really wanted to be directors and we wanted to tell these stories. And you only get one shot at your first impression and John Wick was it. And, you know, I'm glad we delivered because it's been a really fun journey to continue you're telling stories at this scale now.

So, yeah, no, believe me, it was a lot of, there were a lot of stakes. And, you know, when we screened it, it was really funny when we screened it for the first time to buyers, there was no response. It was in the summer, you know, we had tried to get them to hold it until Toronto, like, Midnight Madness, and they were like, we don't get it. We don't think so, this, you know. And then they showed it, like, in July, at a, like, Thursday when everybody's already out of town, you know, the decision makers are already out of town.

And the juniors had to decide if they thought it was worthy of kicking up or not. It was really a complicated sale, actually. And Lionsgate ended up getting it for only a negative pickup and a marketing commitment. And then it took the world by storm. So there were times where we thought we had made a huge mistake in picking that one. It wasn't until we screened it at Fantastic Fest, where the fans got to see it, because really, I think Chad and I, Kelly, everybody involved knew it was a special movie, but Keanu was, like, so proud of it. But we needed the genre fans to see it and convince everybody else that we got. Even Lionsgate.

Even Lionsgate. They didn't actually have a release date until that screening of Fantastic Fest. And that's in the fall, but they had decided that it would go in October. So we had like three weeks to finish the movie, or you guys did. And then so like get everything in order, all the paperwork, deliverables, everything. And then they got it to the screen. I mean, in record time, because they didn't even know when they were going to release it until that play. Yeah. It's like one of the all-time great Cinderella stories of a movie.

It's unbelievable. It goes past that, too, as you know. But like, it's the craziest story. And part of it that folks that may or may not know is, because the DGA is the DGA, Chad's name is the only director on the movie. As we know, it's David and Chad. Everyone acknowledges that, of course.

There's no going back, I suppose, at this point. Like, you can't retroactively change that officially with the DGA or have you ever tried or had that conversation? Yeah, I mean, you know, we step through all the sort of correct steps to get the credit originally accurate. And, you know, we've seen memos that, are a little bit suspect that we could probably bring to the attention of a lawyer in the DGA and have a real conversation.

But to be honest, the careers have spoken for themselves. You know, we don't feel like we need to really go back there and do that. And it's just really nice that people know the difference between sort of like the first one and the rest of the series of amazing films and just the proof that, you know, they are different filmmakers and together they made something special yeah i mean the good side is look i'm sure it would have been fun to see you guys collaborate more and you do as producers obviously but uh we get twice as many movies thankfully we get twice as many chat and then the movies that's right so so atomic blonde i was talked to you guys before i have a lot of fond memories of

covering that one i charlie's as you guys know is just like oh my god capable of anything so committed um and you caught her it seems like a good again at a really good time she was I think she was coming off of Fury Road. So she had kind of like the action bug. You also put her through the ringer on that one, as I recall. Like when your lead actor, like, suffers an injury, like goes through it. That must be, that must be the hardest day on set. Like, this movie rests on my lead.

And if they've cracked something, broken something, strain something, what next? Well, she, I mean, she was the tough cookie. And I think, you know, the things that she went through were hard, but they weren't like we were able to work through it and like you do fight scenes are tricky like you get things and bruises and and um you know and it's it's just uh it is what it is like it's a dynamic sequence where she's interacting with some big dudes and like um so the long and short of it is like she's tough as nails and like fortunately we didn't have anything really serious but like um yeah are you speaking of the extended the famous extended sequence like the one

yeah she got to really experience what the stunt performers get to experience every day like there's always like these bones and bruises and like these you know the the crack tooth or whatever like it's just the things that are minor that you can live with but they're not it's nature yeah for me the story behind the story of john wick one really and atomic blonde were that these actors went through the gauntlet they did everything on their own as much as they wanted and they you know and they are tough cookies. She said some things about breaking a tooth or some things like you know getting banged up but that was the story behind

the story. It's not that she was in peril on our set at all none of our actors have ever been in peril nor have our stunt teams and I just want to make that perfectly clear so it was fun to have that story behind the story of those two films for this one the story

behind the story is the stunt performers and how much they've gotten to do and how they collaborated in making the character that is Colt Sievers. And we're highlighting that as much as Ryan did some of his own stunts and they, you know, wove in as his double at different times as well. So, you know, just to be clear, like nobody's being hurt and injured. Yeah, or forced into anything they don't want to do. They're going to anything they don't want to do. no and knowing and having talked to keanu many times i mean this is he lives and breathes for this stuff he just wants like more more more like give me more training give me more what and charliez loved every second of it as well she came down to the gym which was an hour away from her house

on her own accord you know just to sweat it out with the guys and you know grid and and just prove her grit what she has in spades and she's amazing um but she was not in peril Deadpool, too, I want to hit upon because this is the first time you're kind of playing in somebody else's sandbox in a big way. And that has a lot of, like, pluses and, you know, some, you know, hardships. And, like, you know, you want to, like, honor the material and make a lot of people happy in the studio, et cetera. Did it feel like a good fit? Did it feel like, are there happy memories of doing that? Or I guess, what are the lessons of, like, when you get into IP from something like that?

Well, can I tell the funny story is David actually. met with Ryan over getting to do like a mutant X-Force story. And their first meeting was over maybe the next movie and directing X-Force. And it turned out that it was really just an audition maybe for Deadpool 2. So then you had already gotten him hooked and they fell in love with one another in this meeting. And then it's like, oh, but Deadpool 2 is available first. Do you want to do this?

Deadpool 2 with me? And then David's like, how can I not? Like, this is too cool. And so that's how we got roped into, like, taking on such a big IP. By roped, we mean, got the opportunity. Yeah. Come on. I mean, to get to play with those toys and that character, unbelievable.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was a huge fan of Tim's and Ryan's first one. And, like, the irreverent comedy just, I mean, I love it. So, and I was a fan of Ryan and Van Gogh. wow, they're like, I love peak Ryan. Like, so I love my Ryan's, I guess. It was really fun. So it was fine, like, it was really good to go to comedy camp with Ryan.

And I think hopefully we surprised each other with our comic abilities and, like, our sensibilities. And it was really a great match. Like, we had a blast, and I learned a ton. And we'd love to do more with them. I think the truth is we were a little naive, right? We didn't really realize how big of an sort of obstacle doing one that sort of compared at all because the person was so big. And then I think we delivered. And it is a different movie and it's a bit different tone.

And, you know, it respects the original, but really is a great piece in and of itself. But I think when we walked in, we didn't realize that that was such an obstacle. Yeah, we were already in it, but we're like, oh, my God. Wait, what? We got to live up to the first one. Yeah, high bar. Did you guys ever try to get Hugh involved? Obviously, Hugh Jackman's in the new Deadpool movie.

Was that even a conversation? Well, I mean, not in that. Well, look, I mean, there, it would have been, we had worked with Hugh on, on the Wolverine. I directed second unit on. Right. First X-Men Origins. Yeah.

And, no, yeah. Oh, no, no, the first, the Wolverine, the official, the Wolverine. The Wolverine. And so you and I actually had a great relationship. And, you know, Ryan, I know you always wanted to bring that relationship back together at some point. But I think it was too early on in that conversation, you know. I got you. I mean, it would have, it would have been amazing. I think bringing them together is genius. We're so excited about that. I can't wait to see them both on the screen together. that's going to be awesome. It's going to be so cool. Yes. I have to say one other thing on Deadpool, too. I mean, I love what Brolin did, of course, is cable. I also remember, like, that was like, there was a lot of, like, talk about who was going to be your cable. And I've talked to a few actors who have openly talked about it, whether it's like, I think, David Harbor. I mean, there was rumor that Brad, of course. Like, did you initially talk to Brad about cable as well? Yeah. Yes. We did. We went to pitch Brad. Ryan and I went to pitch Brad, remember? Yes. And we had. He was in. He was in. treat concept art and um he looks cool as cable by the way the concept art is awesome man um it's sort of how the cameo the the banisher came to life because it was really like i think he he had entertained it for a bit and then you know it schedules wouldn't allow it to happen and um so he came in and did the came in and did the cameo for fun yes and then it was michael shannon for

actually a long time michael shannon is my spirit animal i'm obsessed with michael shannon he can do no Cool. And then we got to work with him in bullet train, which is so awesome. And he was amazing. Yeah. I'm Amy Nicholson, the film critic for the L.A. Times. And I'm Paul Shear, an actor, writer, and director. You might know me from The League, Veep, or my non-eligible for Academy Award role in Twisters. We come together to host Unspool, a podcast where we talk about good movies, critical hits. Fan favorites, must-season, and case you missed them.

We're talking Parasite the Home Alone. From Greece to the Dark Night. So if you love movies like we do, come on. along on our cinematic adventure. Listen to Unspooled wherever you get your podcast. And don't forget to hit the follow button. Goodbye, summer movies, hello fall. I'm Anthony Devaney.

And I'm his twin brother, James. We host Raiders of the Lost Podcast, the Ultimate Movie Podcast, and we are ecstatic to break down late summer and early fall releases. We have Leonardo DiCaprio leading a revolution in one battle after another, Timothy Salome playing power ping pong in Marty Supreme, Let's not forget Emma Stone and Jorgos Lanthamos' Bugonia. Dwayne Johnson, he's coming for that Oscar in The Smashing Machine, Spike Lee and Denzel teaming up again, plus Daniel DeLuis's return from retirement.

There will be plenty of blockbusters to chat about two. Tron Aries looks exceptional, plus Mortal Kombat 2, and Edgar writes, The Running Man, starring Glenn Powell. Search for Raiders of the Lost podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube. Yeah, that's one of those roles that, like, I mean, yeah, again, Brolin amazing. but you know a lot of different spins could have been great too but it's what i well i do i'm a sucker for those what ifs um and that that other what if that i did want to bring up her bullet train actually was that gaga was in the mix i guess and you it sounds like you asked you were pretty down like she

was in as i take it for those you were down the road pretty far and i think that it got complicated with her schedule with um the uh movie uh about the fashion designer oh wait um have some good Did she? Yeah. Gucci. Yeah. It was like, yeah. Sorry.

We're so in foggy world. It's all good. So it was hard. Like that ended and then the schedule didn't work out. So, you know, we really had a lot of schedules to juggle. And so it didn't work out. But we were so lucky to replace her with, you know, who we got to replace her with, which is like such a coup for us to.

Yeah. If you're going to, if you're going to have to settle for Sandra Bulk, you're doing something right. You're doing okay. Yeah. Yeah. You mentioned some of like the stuff you guys have been producing. And it's kind of like this like, you know, the smaller, I mean, smaller level. These are still kick-ass crazy action movies, right?

But like I love what you're doing with folks like David Harbour and Odin Kirk and now Key. I guess like my question is like, is there a certain, I mean, there's a satisfaction from an audience perspective of seeing unlikely people, people you don't see in that context, certainly. Is that something that you always kind of have an eye on? Like, this is an actor I really respect and love. What would it look like to put him in this kind of context? Yeah. I mean, look, David always wanted to, when we first started working together, he was always like, I, I want to be the place where we make action heroes and, you know, be able to kind of like prop up somebody and they go and do action for the rest of time and the more unexpected the better and so

those movies are the ones that are making that dream come true um i would say in addition to that though that we actually are really good at casting and we have mary vernew to think for that but it's this you know you know you could have as you may know the paul guy was around for a really long time jane johnson was attached, you know, a lot of like sort of more typical stunt performer type action stars were attached. And we went first to Ryan Gosling. And the idea that he is athletic and all the things, but really doesn't scream action hero is one of the reasons why he's so perfect for the role. And, you know, we do that in so many different places and so many different ways that it happens to, in my opinion, be one of our, one of our sort of special skills.

I agree. So talking about, I like betting on, David. No, I like betting on great actors. I think that's like, you know, you can't go wrong. Just speaking of great actors and action heroes, let's go back to like less the unlikely folks and the folks that we, again, we kind of all came of age with. Is there an 80s or 90s action star that, and I'm sure you've worked with, bunch, David, as a stunt performer, second unit, et cetera, but that you would kill to direct

at this point, like Tom Cruise, the whole, you know, Arnold, like anyone that we... I would, yeah, we'd love to work with Tom. Oh, my God, Tom Cruise. Can you call him for us? Have you ever met with Tom? Have you ever met with Tom? I would think that's a meeting. Come on, Josh. Make it happen.

You've never, look, I'll... And all this year, I mean, been in the business 30 years. You'd think I would have, I haven't, I've never met Tom and I've never worked with them. And it is a small community, obviously, that it's all. But, and I know, you know, Wade Eastwood really well, his, his stunt coordinator and the collaborator. And, but I've never met Tom. And yes, I think that they do amazing stuff. And he would be amazing.

He'd be such a pleasure to work with. I mean, there's a short list of directors I could see, like, you know, taking over from a queue if they ever so choose on mission. David. We have this cool, not for Tom, but we have this cool script called Two Dead to Die, which is kind of about Bond, like if he's too old to be Bond and like, and then it's kind of a Bondian sort of like story past that. So that could be a place where we could put many an 80s action hero. We got to think about that one. You guys are in this amazing situation. You haven't for years, but like, again, coming off a fall guy, you're, you're, you're,

getting a lot of opportunities. I know. Like, and I guess I'm curious of like how you're managing the privilege of choice right now. I mean, there was talk and I think it was real talk. It sounds like David, that like you were essentially, you were in the mix for Jurassic. There were like four days where it sounded like you were directing the new Jurassic Park movie. Is that a tough thing to kind of figure out like, yeah, Jurassic's amazing. But then in your heart of hearts knowing it's not the right fit at the right time. Yeah, I mean, you're right. You said, we have the privilege of choice and that's, it's daunting. It's daunting.

And it's true, it's true, though. And we've sort of earned it in terms of like the movies we've made and like the success that they have and hopefully the continued success, not gone good. But to be asked to be in those worlds, you want to always take the conversation seriously. And I think, you know, we are creative and can find our ways in to a lot of things. So it was a really great conversation to have and like to be in talks with. Stephen and Frank about that franchise that's so dear to us. It was really a beautiful time. And I think, you know, ultimately, you have to, you know, do what's best for the movie at hand

and do it the best for you as an artist and make sure that you could make the same movie and you could do it with the parameters that you needed to do. And at some point, we just said, you know, we wanted to give that answer quickly because they have to go make this movie. that everyone's excited to see and I think that they've landed on obviously a brilliant director who yeah yeah who we love and respect and it's it's going to be amazing yeah you have two many great people on that it must boggle your mind the guy that was like desperate to be a director you know 10 12 years ago be like uh stevens Spielberg you're great i don't know if this is

going to work it's it's kind of surreal but it again like you we've we've we've I believe we've earn this position to say, like, I want to, we want to make, we're privileged. We're able to choose the movies we want to make, and we want to make sure that we can have the creative freedom to make those movies the way we need to make them. Yeah, it was a magical time. I mean, we felt like, of all the things we've achieved, it felt like we were finally acknowledged in the business. And he really understands David as a filmmaker and understands that he loves his audiences

and was just so gracious with his questions about how we did what and knew our other movies too. And it was just a pinch me moment that, you know, we feel so fortunate to have gotten to spend some moments with him. He's the reason we're in the business. For all of us on all sides, totally. No, I mean, I know, yeah, when I ran into Gosling, he was like the first thing he told me.

He's like, I ran into Spielberg and he loved it. Like, it was just like, see him like a kid. Like, you know, it's Spielberg. Come on. Where are you guys at? We're talking a lot about IP and stuff, and we always talk superhero movies and you've done obviously Deadpool,

but like where are you at? Like, is there a Marvel or DC project that would be tough to say no to? Is there something, you know, Spider-Man's looking for a director. There's always cool stuff out there. We're open. I mean, I think, you know,

David has proven that he can, you know, get into the world, further the world. He's also proven that he can spin off the world. he's also proven that we can do originals that feel so unique and so special that they might have the fuel to become franchises and countless times and there's nothing we will say no to until we know that we can't make it his ours if that makes sense and so um just truly open but it has to feel like something that he can put his stamp on and that uh you know that we're all making the same movie while we do it because we always like

a harmonious experience. Are you... And I think, you know, I just asked to that. I was one, I always wondered why I can... It's a blessing and a curse that I can find my way into. Oh, it's so annoying. All these things like, oh, I don't know. Can you have a narrower, like, just be more...

I don't know. And she's like, no. I'm like, I've got to live. And I sort of figured it out. It's like so much of my career was a second unit director. So you're like not directing the movie because it's your passion. It's a job. You've been hired for it.

You've got to find your way in and find why it's important to you and make it better and amplify it. And so sometimes you look at these projects that come in and you're like, I know how to find my way in, make this thing and amplify it. But you also have to make sure now it's that next level of stuff and that's why it's great to have a partner where it has to be the one for you

because you're going to be living it for the next two years. Like, I think that that's really where you have to. It's interesting. He didn't really find his way into bullet train until we were well on, like, can I tell this story? Yeah. Like, David had this hope to be doing Violent Night, actually, for a moment. And we were trying to find the right actor. And we had gone to somebody the same week that Sony came and said, you know, Brad has heard about Bullet Train.

and he would like to read it this weekend. And we were like, hold the phone. It needs a rewrite to make sure that he understands where he's at in the movie. Because in that, it's one of my favorite things about the film is that he is actually just there accidentally. And it's really a hero's movie the whole time, which I think people even miss because Brad Pitt's so fit, you know, such a big character. But like, it's true. It's like it's not really his movie. So we were rewriting and Zach Olkowitz wrote a draft in records.

time literally overnight that was so good we were like oh shoot we have to give mr brad fit this weekend we don't have any other excuses amazing um turns out the other actor passed on violet night brad says yes to bullet train and david's like i guess i got to find my way into this thing and what a full circle moment i mean amazing yeah he crushed it and he was his that became your favorite movie you ever made yeah i mean i i there yes a thousand percent so you know like you I knew there was enough there, but you're right. Like, that was sort of the defining moment. It's like, oh, shit, now I really have to turn on all of those skills.

For you, it was like, for you, it was like, how do you find the heart in these characters? Because they were all bad. And then the truth is he made them all so warm and beautiful that you loved them all. And that was what he had to do to find his way into it. So that was what was beautiful about you finding your way into it. I know. It was hard for me to find humanity. And that was always my critique of it.

And then it's funny now when people watch. the film, they're like, I love the love story between Levin and Champer, and there's so beautiful on. That wasn't in the original. Sally, I have to let you go on that. But it is funny, yeah, talking about, yeah, like, kind of turning that, that perspective from, like, the guy that could kind of adapt to any other filmmaker and then kind of, like, realizing, oh, wait, this is my voice, this is who I am as a filmmaker, which clearly you've found,

because you look at these films, there is this through line. We're seeing it right now. man i i'm so i'm so thrilled for this movie that the world gets this movie in a second as you can tell i'm obsessed with it it's fantastic everybody should check out the fall guy kelly david you know i'm a fan i'm always here for you and um congratulations on this one enjoy the ride thank you josh it's such a pleasure thank you so much and so ends another edition of happy sad confused remember to review rate and subscribe to this show on itunes or wherever you get your podcasts i'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley

and I definitely wasn't pressure to do this by Josh. Okay, it's official. We are very much in the final sprint to election day. And face it, between debates, polling releases, even court appearances. It can feel exhausting, even impossible

to keep up with. I'm Brad Nilke. I'm the host of Start Here, the Daily Podcast from ABC News. And every morning, my team and I get you caught up on the day's news in a quick, straightforward way that's easy to understand with just enough context so you can listen, get it, and go on with your day. So, kickstart your morning. Start Smart with Start Here and ABC News, because staying informed shouldn't feel overwhelming. The Old West is an iconic period of American history and full of legendary figures whose names still resonate today. Like Jesse James, Billy the Kid, and Butch and Sundance,

Sitting Bull, Crazy Horse, and Geronimo, Wyatt Earp, Batmasterson, and Bass Reeves, Buffalo Bill Cody, Wild Bill Hickok, the Texas Rangers, and many more. Hear all their stories on the Legends of the Old West podcast. We'll take you to Tombstone, Deadwood, and Dodge City, to the plains, mountains, and deserts for battles between the U.S. Army and Native American warriors to dark corners for the disaster of the Donner Party and shining summits for achievements like the Transcontinental Railroad. We'll go back to the earliest days of explorers and mountain men and head up through notorious Pinkerton agents and gunmen like Tom Horn. Every episode features narrative writing and cinematic music and there are hundreds of episodes available to binge.

I'm Chris Wimmer. Find Legends of the Old West wherever you're listening now.