Happy Sad Confused - Denis Villeneuve

Episode Date: November 27, 2017

It seemed like an impossible proposition for any filmmaker but somehow miraculously Denis Villeneuve achieved the next to impossible -- directing a sequel to "Blade Runner" that actually may rival (and in some critics' estimation surpass) the original. In this SPOILER-filled (you've been warned!) conversation about "Blade Runner 2049" with filmmaker Denis Villeneuve, Josh finds out how why Denis couldn't pass up the opportunity to direct, what scene worried him all the way up to release, and whether a 3rd installment may in fact still come to pass (spoiler: it might!). Plus Josh talks to Villeneuve about his love of sci-fi, what he's planning for his adaptation for "Dune", and what could lure the director to the Star Wars universe.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Today on Happy Sad Confused, director Denise Villeneuve on Blade Runner 2049, Dune, and a Star Wars movie, dot, dot, dot. Hey guys, I'm Josh Harrowitz. You just cracked yourself up on that one. I love the dot, dot, dot, dot. The ellipse. A big ellipse guy. I'm also just very excited about this guest, Sammy.

Sue me. I'm excited. Okay. It's so rare for me. Yeah, you're never excited about your guests. This one, in particular, all the rest can go to hell. I'm telling Ben Mendelso in that. No, no, no.

Denisville Nove is the major guest, the one and only guest on this week's podcast. He is, of course, the fantastic filmmaker behind Blade Rutter 2049 and Sicario and arrival and prisoners and ensandies. And he's just... Prisoners. That's right. Oh, he knows Hugh. Another one degree away from Hugh. Oh, I love this guy.

Okay, we don't talk about prisoners at all. so you know. This is one of those episodes where it was a rare opportunity to dive deep into a particular film because Blade Runner 2049 is a film that I greatly admired. I've seen it three times. I really just... You've seen it

three times? Yeah, yeah. I really like this movie. You're a psycho. Okay. It's been out for like 15 minutes. Just calmed down. This is was a movie that was so eagerly anticipated and for, you know, people that grew up kind of worshipping the original Blade Runner we were also curious about how

Deney could possibly follow it up and somehow I think most people agree he achieved something very unique and special and yet still honored the first Blade Runner. Sadly, the box office was not that great. I don't know what to tell you guys. He made a great movie for you. Because you probably saw it for free all three times.

That's why. That's not true actually. At least twice. Two of the three times I paid for it. Well, that third time it would have nailed. Yeah, I'm sure those $15 would have put it over the top. so this is a rare opportunity to talk to a filmmaker in depth about a movie

that's recently come out and we got to get into spoilers this is a spoiler kind of conversation There you go So if you have not watched Blade Runner 2049 yet I would advise not listening yet Come back to us when you have

And for those of you that have enjoyed that film This is going to be a very rewarding conversation I think because Deney now has licensed the talk at length about the choices he made in the film his approach And just sort of, I got an opportunity to ask like kind of plot questions that I was certainly curious about. Plus, we got a chance to talk about his future.

He's currently working on Dune, the much-beloved book series by Frank Herbert, of course, that he is going to, he's scripting. He's co-scripting right now with an intention to direct, and he talks about why he fell in love with that book early on and his hopes for that movie. And yes, as I teased with my dot, dot, dot, dot. Lipsy's introduction, I even asked him about a Star Wars movie, and I was actually surprised that he would entertain such a thing with certain conditions. So stay tuned, listen to that part of the conversation. Conditional Star Wars. Exactly. Exactly. I mean, this is a guy that has his pick of the litter right now. He's been offered a James Bond movie. He's, you know, when you, when you're able to, like, direct something like a Blade Runner sequel and the critics

fall in love with it and everyone acknowledges that he did a great job with it, I think every studios now like okay Denise is at the top of their short list so he's in a great position so that's the conversation this week what else to say

we have survived Thanksgiving oh I am full are you oh too much stuffing okay we're taping this before Thanksgiving pre-taped let's good acting though what's uh okay what's your

what's Sammy's pick of the week by the way what's the what's the thing that you've been enjoying P.O. W? P O example I'm just a little so on the update it's from all that turkey it goes to my head

What have you been watching? Like your turkey sandwich you had for lunch? Mind Hunter. Oh, I'm jealous. You've seen all of Mine Hunter. Yes. You'll love it because you're the psychopath. So you're like, I really relate to these guys.

Why are they bothering these poor serial killers? It's Jonathan Groff. I'm a big Groff fan. I know a lot of people are. I was at an event where he was the other day and people around me were very excited. And I don't have, I haven't seen. seen him in things what would i have seen him in okay well theater it was spring awakening see i never saw spring awakening well that's why you're a bad person uh he was amazing in spring awakening

then he hopped over to glee for a little and then he was in hamilton right and i missed him in hamilton the one i saw him he was not in hamilton and he's just so he's wonderful and he's so good in this he's one of the leads right he's the lead and he was at four rows in front of me at m butterfly a couple weeks ago. So there's a link. I started it that night. I literally did. That's amazing.

I was like, I just saw him. How many episodes? It's like an eight or ten kind of? Yeah, eight to ten. I don't remember exactly because on Netflix they just go into the next one. They're so sly that way. Like if you're not quick enough on the remote, like, oh, I guess I'm in the next episode.

I guess it's four days later. I'm very excited. That's next on my list. You're going to really like it. You all are going to really like it. Except for my mom. My mom didn't like it. it. Oh, really? It's a little too dark

for her. It's probably not a mom show, generally. She was like, I don't like it. It's too real. And I'm like, well, they were literally real. So that's next time I list that in American Vandal. That's, uh, that's it. American Vandal's really good, too. Not to ruin a potential upcoming guest, but I did,

the show I most recently binged, guys. Here's a hint of who's coming up. Who? I watched the Crown. You didn't tell me you watched the Crown. I watched all the crown. I just went to London because of the crown. Do you know who's coming up from the crown? No.

I haven't told you? No. Okay, I'm going to ruin it just because it's too cruel. Clairfoy and Matt Smith are both coming on. Both of them? Oh my God. Oh, we're all so lucky. We're so lucky.

They are both going to be sitting right where you are. Hopefully not on the same seats. They only get one seat to share. I might have to come. Okay. So let's let's. This is going to be so good. Let's let's let Samuel.

lie down and she has to collect herself. That's coming up in a couple weeks, I think. But for now, Blade Runner 2049 enthusiasts, sit back and relax. Here's one of the great filmmakers working today. I'm such a fan of his. Enjoy this chat with Denise Villeneuve. It's a huge honor and a great pleasure to welcome to my office. A filmmaker I greatly admire. Welcome, sir. Thank you. Thank you. I have to say, you know, this is an opportunity that I wasn't sure I was going to get because Wade Runner came out and you were doing the crazy publicity circuit and there was so much secrecy, it was shrouded in secrecy, and all I wanted to do was talk to you at length about this film. So I'm glad we're getting the opportunity a little bit after the fact to delve into it. Yeah, and it's a better environment and a better timing because as you rightly said, as I was doing the press tour, it was just under an insane. pressure of secrecy.

So it's like we were not allowed to talk about nothing. So now let's say that the people that don't want to get spoilers stop that podcast now because we'll talk about

that we can talk about everything now. Yeah, and I'll just get the congratulations out of the way up front because I mean I've seen this film three times. I greatly admire what you've done with this film and it was as you well know, a kind of an impossible task in terms of

There are a few films like the original Blade Runner that exist in our consciousness in such a way. And it was almost, for me, as a film fan, impossible to dream of what even a sequel would be, how you can honor the original and yet make something all your own. And somehow you were able to achieve that. So congratulations. Thank you. The thing is that it's true that the chances of success were very small. but the conditions were there.

There was at the beginning a very strong ideas coming out of Empton Fenture and Redis cut brains. You know, there was like a strong dream on the pages and Michael Green had written a strong screenplay. So that's why I get on board. I got on board.

Can we first before we get into Blade Runner talk a little bit about your background in terms of the films that you grew up with, in particular films that relate to Blade Runner perhaps, Were you steeped in science fiction growing up? Was science fiction a great level of yours? Yeah, the thing is that I grew up in a small village in Canada

where the most exciting thing was were the nuclear power plant at three miles away and the snowstorms. So it's like I grew up reading tons of graphic novels, sci-fi graphic novels coming out from Europe, metal-urland, heavy metal, English, I think. And then watching sci-fi movies on TV, you know, it's like it's my birth, the birth of the desire of being a director was definitely linked with science fiction. And I spent my teenage years writing stories, doing storyboards with a close friend of mine, dreaming about doing science fiction.

So it was something that I had put aside. A dream that I was hoping one day will be fulfilled. It was a long journey, but I'm finally back in my origins. Do you remember the first, or it can be one or two different experiences, going to a movie theater in terms of films that changed the way you perceive cinema? I mean, you know. Both. I mean, it's not one movie.

It's a lot of movies. The way that one of the first movie I have seen that I figure out what was the job of a director was I remember watching Close Encounter of the Third Kind or movies from Spielberg and feeling that there was something different in those movies and that because there was a name attached to them and that man was like at a strong. vision and I discovered that he was an author and Spielberg was one of my main first influence coming out from a small place

in Canada, of course the movies we were having, I was in contact, we were mostly Americans then and strangely from close encounter there was that French character that was so ironic and that was played by

Francois Laconde played by Francois Truffaut and then so strangely because of Spielberg I discovered a French new wave I got interested in Truffaut and then I discovered Godor and Godor was a massive Jean-Lu Goddard was a massive shock for me

to see how playful and challenging and experimental can be the cinema could be the potential of cinema I discovered with Godor and then I discovered Antoniani was a strong shock too and then later

one of the strongest aesthetic shock was Bergman, Ingmar Bergman for me is still one of my favorites by far and Kubrick too It's beautiful The way you describe it is beautiful

because that is the way I've experienced it and many I think film fans experienced it is they all connect whether it's through an actor that appears in one thing or another or a director

if it's Brian De Palma that's influenced by Hitch You go back to Hitchcock and it's ever, and it's just never-ending loop that is endlessly rewarding. I still feel like I'm learning, you know, having, you know, there's no end to learning unless you're Martin Scorsese and have seen every film. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And me, I have massive holes in my cinematic cultures, you know, there's moments of the part of the history of cinema that I still need to explore. And there are so many films that are done today, I'm trying to catch up. The more I'm making movies, the less I have time to watch movies.

And I think it's a, yeah, right now I just feel a big need to start to go back to the cinephide part of my life, you know. You've been making the movies for a while. Now you need to go back and enjoy them. Let's talk a little bit about the anticipation going into Blade Runner. I was talking, I mean, I was talking to fellow film fans that were so curious about what you were doing with this and what, you know, the whole team was doing. I was also talking to filmmakers that were very curious. I mean, I had a chance to talk to Christopher Nolan here. He came in for Dunkirk, and he was endlessly curious, too.

I mean, he's just an admirer of yours, an admirer of the original film. Did you feel that from fellow filmmakers? Did you talk to other filmmakers or even show the film to other filmmakers? The thing is that I think that it's Blade Runner for most of the people is an artist. object that is revered. I mean, it's like massively respected. It's a, it's a, as Christopher Nolan

told me, you're walking into sacred territory here. Like, I don't, I think people, uh, right, were very worried and are sometimes upset or, uh, and I understand why, because I, if you told me

that one of my friends or someone, another filmmaker will have done, try to do a sequel to this, I will have the same, yeah, suspicious. It's one of the first time I heard that they were planning to read this gut was thinking, I thought it, I remember saying to myself, that's a fantastic, exciting, bad idea. You know, it's like, you don't do that. It's like, why? And I'm myself, I feel there's a lack of, it's not true.

There's a lot of original content that it's still been made today's just that we don't have access to it. Right. Because, but I feel that Hollywood is in danger of the recycling mode at one point. It would express, in there will be an inner explosion. Yeah, well, it is an interesting, as you well know, as a film fan for myself, especially when you look at studio, films and what they spend a lot of money on, there's that push and the pull of, you know, I think studios tend to want to make the familiar because they want a safe product for the audience.

They want to make the audience feel like they know what they're getting and they can cash in on that. But inevitably, for me, I think for people that appreciate great works of art in cinema, it's the ones that take risks. It's the ones that put themselves out there. Yeah, it's a thing is that the audience today, It's very different from the audience that was going to film theaters a very few decades ago. I feel it's like there's like a hunger for project that people will recognize.

They feel it's safe. They want to see things that they are less, they feel like there's less a desire for the unknown it feels. Right. And that's everything that Blade Runner is. It's like it's couched in the unknown and questioning yourself and question and it's a film. Both of these films are filled with questions that

you can debate with your friends for hours which is part of the beauty of it. What was the in the end Was there a period of time where you were wrestling with whether to do this or not? Or was it an instinctual once it was presented to you as an option? Was it too great an opportunity to pass up?

There was two things. The first a deep excitement and massive curiosity when they put the screenplay in front of me I was moved that the two producers behind the project and Rukosov and the Broderick Johnson which I had done prisoners with when they approached me I was moved

that they had enough trust in me to do that that I was really but then there was two things I read the screenplay and I felt it felt strangely familiar and meaning not that it was some

ideas that were very strong and fresh but it felt like I felt home meaning that it was I felt there was a continuity with the work I have done

before so there was I understood why because at the beginning I said why me it could have been in the hands of a lot of directors

you know why me but when I read it it's okay understand it makes sense It's linked with what I, it's a director that was a very strange feeling. In the same time, I felt also that technically I was ready to do such a movie. Now I had to make the big thing was I had to make peace with the idea that, as I said previously, the chances of success were very small, very narrow and that I could be banned from the cinematic community for the rest of my life

for doing such a blasphamilious, blasphamil. Yeah, it's like, yeah. But it's just that, you know what, you make a movie of that scale, it's always risky, and it was a dream of mine to try to do a big science fiction movie like that, and I felt that it worked when I read the screen to say, okay, if I risk everything,

if it's my last movie, if it's like a dad, that is very meaningful. It's like, it's like, it's like And I love, love, love the story And the first movie is part of my I would say my cinematic DNA in some ways It's a movie that I deeply loved For the decades

So I said, all right Once I agreed and I made peace with that I'd be Once I made peace with the idea that It was like Like Ryan Gussling was saying Trying to aim as a little, little, little aim in that far away

to be able to then I become free again and I decided to do it we're going to get into some more overtly spoiler territory right now so I just want to say that if you haven't seen the movie by now as I've seen it three times

and I'll see it many more go and check it out and now let's start to get into some plot stuff if we could if you'll indulge me I mean one of the interesting things for me is that Kay's journey in this, in some ways mirrors

not Deckards from the first one, but almost Batty's journey, Roy Batty. He wants to be human. He wants to feel he has human qualities just as Batty wants life. Is that something that occurred to you and the

writers in terms of the story process in terms of a lot of people I know have gone back and looked at the original Blade Runner and even see Batty as almost the hero of that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. No. No, it's like in the new Blade Runner, we are following Roy Batty, and he becomes the main character, you know, as the first one, it's Deckard looking for Batty, and now it's Batty looking for Deckard, you know, and there's no, I will say a thing about Michael Green's writing. There's no coincidences. I mean, it's a very intellectual, a strong writer that thinks a lot. There's no, yeah, coincidences. I also love... I mean, you kind of have two antagonists in this film

in Wallace and Love, arguably. And it's interesting that, like, we never get necessarily... You know, in... You would almost expect there's going to be the final showdown, not only with Love, but there's some resolution or something with Jared Leto's character.

But we don't see... He never even shares a scene with Ryan Gosling's character, Kay. Was there ever a consideration of... that? Did you feel like that character didn't demand that kind of... That's the thing I loved about the screenplay is that it was quite bold in some regard, in different aspects. First of all, the first part of the movie's intellectual investigation of the character. It's like a more slow burner, and there's this idea that...

One of the main protagonists is the two main protagonists doesn't, don't meet. And those were, we rose those questions as we were writing the project. And I just felt that, again, it's nice to try new ways of approaching a story, you know, not trying to feel secure because you apply a recipe, you know. We try to approach it in a different way, and I'm grateful that the producer had the guts to go there, you know. In terms of your visual approach to this,

and the DP has been cited, this is a gorgeous film, and it's just remarkable in what you and he were able to achieve in this in terms of atmosphere and lighting, et cetera. And again, like, the first moments of the first moments the film are so unlike anything we saw in the original Blade Runner. It's a totally different kind of environment where, you know, in that protein farm, kind of a barren landscape as opposed to kind of the cityscape that we associate with Blade Runner. How, you know, is it a negotiation for you in terms of like how much to show that recalls

the original Blade Runner and then how much to go in a different direction to show different kinds of environments? Was that something that you were wrestling with, or did it feel like again? The thing is that, again, in the screenplay, I had, there was like, every time I was in the Rick Dicker's neighborhood, I felt secure because it was an environment that we knew, we knew where were the rules, we knew what was the look. It's what the world will look like outside, the outskirt of Los Angeles, and once you will get out of Los Angeles.

what it will look like. One of the key elements that was in the screenplay was the idea that California would be struggling with a new kind of climate. It will be colder. There will be snow. And that for me was massive. Being from Canada, I was born in the snow

is something I have a very intimate relationship with. Very, it's like it, and it can sound trivial or banal. It's just very, very specific for me. It indicates to me how people think, walk, behave. There's also water everywhere. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's a motif of water. But like in the first movie, there's like the pressure of water,

the ocean rose, flooded countries. There's like part of Los Angeles. There's a massive seawall that protects the city now called the Sepulveda Sea Wall so everything west of Sebulveda Boulevard is floated you know it's like a bye-bye Santa Monica

it's like it's like so where I'm going is that and more important the idea of winter indicate to me the idea of the light and it's one thing that always the birth of the dream

for a movie is always linked with the nature of light to me and And so the idea, at the beginning one, I had the idea to create a silver white blade runner instead of a black one. Like the first movie is very dark. Then I felt I had a key to open this world and to bring Ridley Scott's universe close to me, to invade it, to transform it according to my own sensibly through winter. And that was a big revelation for me. Is there a scene?

And I want to say the opening of the movie is the opening of the original movie. I had heard that. It was storyboard. It was planned. It was written. It was supposed to open with that Sapper Martin. Sapper Martin. And I thought it was brilliant that Empton and Michael Green went back to that and bring it back to the screen.

Well, I also have to say, you're casting of Bautista. Bautista just is so amazing in that scene. He conveys so much through the... very little dialogue, just his presence lived in, he's not that old guy, he's playing a bit of an older character but also just the, and I know you've talked about how like one of

the fun things, interesting things about this is like, you know, we today in 2017 we're living in such a digital world and you've gone to like an analog world in this futuristic film. You know, that opening scenes in a farm, it's in a shack and that's just fascinating to me.

Dave, Bautista, for me I deeply love Dave. I will I hope I will have the chance to work with him again because he's really a natural, born actor, very, with a lot of death. He can base so much with some of the words. It was like, I remember Ryan Gussling and I,

I don't like to put words in someone else's mouth, but I mean, I will say we both were in awe, working with him. He's like, and such a nice human being too. Is there a scene that you wrestled in terms of how to shoot that you kind of like tried you were unsure for a while in terms of like

what is the way to depict this on screen is that one stand out to you the thing is that when you make a movie like that it has to be everything has to be very meticulously planned

you can't improvise on set but we did sometime improvise with the actors but because I wanted to have that freedom but otherwise everything is like storyboarded because you need to create everything

all the sets, everything so people need to know where you're going and then also to plan I like to storyboard the more I do the more I love the power of storyboarding because you make so many decisions about the stylistic style of the movie and it's like

it allows you, it gives you more freedom at the end of the day. It allows you to improvise because you're so well, you're ready to shoot. But, no, I don't think there was a scene, because again, we were so ready when we started the shoot, Roger and I. All those debates had happened months. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. Was there, on the eve of release, was there one aspect of the film, whether it was a story point or a stylistic approach that you were losing sleepover in terms of how it would be interpreted

or received by an audience. Was there an aspect of the film you were worried about? Oh, yeah, the old film. But mostly there are some scenes. There's like a scene that gave me a little bit of nightmares as I was doing it is the casino fight. I mean, there's a sequence where Ryan Gussling and Harrison Ford are fist fighting in a very cowboy way.

in the, in the RG of an holographic RG, you know, like a visual. And that, I was worried that I was really, I work very, we work very hard to make sure that we were still in the Blade Runner universe doing this. It sounds strange, but it's a very fine line because we were suddenly in contact with element of culture that people will recognize from. the past and the technology that needed to be like you had to feel that those holograms were part of the older technology that they were like filled with glitches and the system were corrupted and those holograms would create a kind of like digital painting where the characters are fighting through and it's like I just wanted to make sure that and there was several things that needed to weapon in this scene at the same time for the characters.

Yeah, that scene gave me a lot of nightmares, I would say, yeah. A couple of plot things that I'm curious about. Was there ever a mention of Roy Batty's character at any point, considered? No, but I will say that for me, I thought about Roy Batty a lot as I was shooting the movie. It's like such a strong, charismatic character. I felt that he was just beside me. telling me what to do because I for me in some ways he's the most influential character on this

film yeah yeah the thing is that it's for the thing is a I'm so different I have a very different sensibility than Rindley Scott so my big challenge was not to go too far away from the original one yeah yeah was a was K ever in any incarnation considered to be their child was that always that was never. No, no, no, it was that the plot, the original plot didn't change, yeah. Why does love cry when she kills Robin Lass? I deep

love the fact that, you know, the replicants, they are beings that are very, of course, stronger than real humans. They are like more intelligent, but emotionally, they are like very

vulnerable because they don't have the the proper pillow of experience to digest emotions or to know how to react. Like children are still dealing with the... Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I like the fact that a love is a bit psychopath. You know, her emotional reactions are not... She's like very always on the edge. And she reacts.

It's like the dots are not connected at the right moment. She cries at the wrong moment. And the way Sylvia Oaks portrait, that character, I think, is very powerful. She brought a lot to the character. Who I've never, frankly, seen before in film, is amazing in the film. It's a revelation. It was a revelation to me, too. Sylvia Oaks is an incredible actress.

Honestly, I am a very strong strong. strong artist. Is it true that you were considering re-teaming with Emily Blunt for that particular character or Silence. The thing is Emily is again is someone I would love to work with

again, definitely. Emily, I had such a great time on Sicario Water. But if memory is good, Emily was pregnant. Excuse. Was the musical cue at the end always there, tears and rain? Was that planned in the script stage or the pre-production stage?

No, it's me who brought that idea there. It's like it's a thing that happened. A movie is a living organism. At one point, it's like a Frankenstein. You put the pieces together and it starts to breathe. It starts the art start to pump. You know, it's like really strange. and at one point I feel that I have to listen and follow the movie

it has its own and as I was editing I was feeling more and more and more that it needed vangelis he needed the sound of the atmosphere the spirit of the it was very impressive when you were putting the vangelis synthesizers on the images

then it was a became it was like closer to the what I wanted And for me, it felt, having seen it a few times, the moments that really kicked in and felt like I was connected to the first film were like not necessarily in scenes where action was happening. It was when he's in the car, when he's traveling from one place to another. It gives you a moment to settle into the atmosphere and feel something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And honestly, I was a bit nervous when I brought this idea to put the score of the original tune and the original tune. this moment, but it felt pure and perfect idea for the moment and to reconnect with the

first movie at that precise moment and everybody responds very strongly to this idea, so I decided to go on with it, even if it was a bit bold, I think, in a way. I know the box office side, which we're not going to dwell on. It wasn't what everybody was hoping. I mean, you know, this is a film that, like the original, I think, will. live on for many years to come just by the sheer audacity and quality of it. That being

said, I'm curious, like, did you and the writers even sketch out a potential other story for... Listen, I just finished the movie a few weeks ago. We finished the movie and it was released the next day. I don't have any distance. And me, I was like

my... I was like I agreed to do one movie. I was a... I we did that movie and was meant to be like a stand-alone and it was we gave everything I know that

the idea is not dead I mean it's like it could be possible that there would be another one because from an artistic point of view the producers and the studio are very proud of the film, you know, very proud

and so it could happen again, yeah. Do you have, like, the seed of the idea in the back of your reign of what it would be? Some ideas, but let's say that I need to the dust needs to set up on them.

And I'm really focusing on something else right now. Right, and we'll get to that. I'm curious about your, I know that's early days of Dune, but I definitely want to pick your brain a little bit about that. But before I get to that, I re-watched Arrival again, which I just adore as well. Do you see, I mean, Arrival was kind of your first, you know, full-on foray into science fiction.

Do you see a connective tissue between Arrival and Blade Runner? Did one? The thing is that when you make movies back to back like that, one thing that is possible, to make such a thing possible is when they are very different. So they are very, to you, seeing this, there's a lot of connective tissue

about the power of memories. Yes. And both movies are linked by this thematic, yeah, deeply. And my question that puts you on the psychiatric couch for a second that I noticed, in looking at, particularly your recent work,

I think all four of your most recent films are all in some way about a parent losing a child. It could be said. There's something about the death of childhood which is a terrifying thing but it's not about

it's the metaphor you know of maybe how as I grew up I feel about society today there's something about innocence that is crushed right now there was innocence when I was young It was possible to be innocent. There was the presence of innocence in societies,

even if the world was still a violent world. Today there's something like maybe because of the means of communications or, I don't know, something is crushed. And it's present in a lot of my work, yeah, it's true. One kind of filmmaking question that struck me when I was rewatching arrival. I mean, I guess this is a question that's really, it's what a director does. The question is kind of generally, how do you know where to put a camera? specifically, I was watching at the end of arrival where arguably the pivotal conversation

between Amy and Jeremy's character, where they're kind of connecting, kind of for the first time, the romance is really beginning at the end. You shoot almost entirely from behind. You barely see their faces in that scene as you start to go into the flash forwards. what do you remember about the thing is with Bradford Young I did this movie with Bradford's the cinematographer arrival the idea

the whole movie was shot in a very dream-like quality and there's something about the it's very intimate to be just behind the neck of someone a character there's something the power of evocation and the feeling of immersion is very strong

when you're just there just above the shoulder and it's also like a dream when you there's something that you cannot catch in the same time there's a wish to see more in the same time a very strong intimate feeling that tension really appeals me and it felt it's always about finding the perfect spot where you want to put your camera and it comes from in the preparations from an intellectual process on the dates and very intuitive

and it's like an equilibrium between both and I feel that it was a strong place to be it was by far the most romantic place to put our camera was just just close behind there and them you know yeah well it works um so your head is mostly in dune right now i would imagine you're you and eric roth are working on the screen yes yes um this was an important book for you growing up can you can you tell me sort of why you felt what you remember about falling in love with that book and what the condition was the thing is that I will give myself the permission not to talk about it too much

because it's always the same is that when you are in gestation, gestation, is it a word in English? It's lucky you're designing something so the ideas are so fragile right now when you start to write something that but let's say it's

at the time I just felt in love with the culture that was created by Frank Ayberth and what it was saying about religion and the link between religion and politics and the fact that it's a project that you can explore those teams very freely with a lot of freedom, I will say.

Was there a childhood image or two that sticks with you to this day that you, when you think back to first reading and I remember seeing the cover of that book. Yeah, me too, me too, me too. I remember walking in a bookstore and the thing I never heard of, you know, that the beauty

of being born in nowhere is that everything is new. And nobody never talked to me about you. I discovered a book because I was attracted to the cover and the French cover was fantastic of the first edition. It was like, and, What was it? Do you remember?

Yeah, it's the close-up of a black man with blue eyes above a desert, and it's a very strong image. And very hypnotic. And my work right now is to reconnect with my first impressions and my memories of how I felt and the images that came out when I read the book the first time, the first original images and to connect with that. And that's a very strong process and very exciting. Yeah, I mean, I won't tell. I know you, it's so early.

It's cruel to talk about too much. But I'm curious, like, as you're writing this with Eric, do you think about from a filmmaking standpoint? I mean, like, the epic nature of the story, the sandworms, etc., like literally. Like, do you think about, like, how I'm going to achieve that, if that's going to be seen-trial, practical? No, no, no, at the beginning, it's like you, it's all about dream. I must never, never, never think about how I will do things at the beginning.

I remember, I remember first lady told me she was trying to write a screenplay, and she said, okay, I'm going to write this, no rain. Rain is too tough and no dog, and I don't put kids in the scene. And, you know, you cannot start to write thinking about that. You have to go all the way, and then you deal with the problems. Then the studio can say, that's not going to work. I mean, you're in such an exciting, this must be an exciting time for you as a filmmaker. You're getting to realize kind of those dreams you had as a child. And, you know, you've been making great films for a while.

But I'm just giving a sense of sort of, like, where are your heads at in terms of the opportunities that are coming to you. You have, you know, Bond came your way, I know, and I'm sure there are other franchises we don't know. that have been offered to you. And those are probably very tantalizing, exciting opportunities. What are you going with your gut at this point in terms of like how you're choosing, how to steer your career? I mean, what's your... Listen, I always worked the same way since the beginning as I go.

It's a call. A project needs to appeal to you and you. You know, sometimes I've been offered a very, very nice project. that I decline, not because the project. The project sometimes is very strong. It's just that I feel I'm not the right filmmaker to do it. And it doesn't inspire me. The images are not coming out.

It needs to, and why, if you ask me today, if I had nothing on my table, what I would love to do, I will say, doom. It's something that I said because I know that the images, I'm inspired by it. And if doom collapse, I have no idea what I'm on the doom. You know, it's like I put all my eggs in the same basket all the time. I'm, I'm, it's not a choice. It's a call.

Did you, you know, there's so much talk of these superhero franchises nowadays. So I can't imagine it hasn't crossed your, your radar. I'm sure maybe you've had a meeting or not with these, these companies. Have you ever connected with like a superhero? Have you ever felt connection? No, because I'm not from that culture. I'm French-Canadian, which means that my culture was, I mean, I was influenced by

authors from France and Belgium and Belgium, sorry, and European's a graphic novelist. So honestly, I knew very little about most of them, I don't know them. I know sometimes, I don't know. So it means I'm not the right person to do them, you know.

To do those movies, you need to love those characters. I'm a stranger, you know. Anyway, yeah. What's your relation to the Star Wars franchise? Do you have a lot of that? That's different. I was like in 1977, I was 10 years old. So I was the target audience.

I'm a victim of that. It affects your system. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The two first Star Wars, a new open, Empire Strikes Backs. I think Empire Strikes Backs are the movie that I had the most, how can I say that English? I was waiting the most more apprehension

you know two years of like it was like but it died with a return of the general the 90 walk guy I'm not that no I was like a pure

believer you know I ate the third one so much that was the end for me have you would you entertain delving into that universe if they came calling is that something that's intriguing

It's something that, again, it's like, I will be intrigued. I don't know. It's very difficult. What is dangerous with Star Wars right now that becomes its own vocabulary? You know, I would love to see them. I think Rogue One was a very interesting attempt to a very, very interesting way to get out of the mold. Yeah. But I am...

So, yeah, I mean, it's interesting because, like, I don't know if you've heard, like, Ryan Johnson, they've now kind of let him chart out another trilogy that apparently is unrelated to the Skywalker saga, as it were, which is intriguing, because I think it's what you're talking about. I think it will be time to do that because it's a bit, you know, it's like there's a limit to have daughters, neighbors, cousins, uncles. How can everybody know a Skywalker? Yeah, yeah, yeah, can you, yeah, I think it would be a great idea to get out of there. I mean, and to do something, yeah, to go in a new part of the galaxy that I will be open to.

Okay, so they need another trilogy, on an unrelated part, then called Deney. And, I mean, I was talking to, no one, I know, like, Revere's Bond. He grew up, like, I think he's, I have a feeling he's going to make a Bond film. Me too, me too, I think, I think I never talked about it with him, but I have that feeling, too. It would be fascinating. And he said he has a take on it. He's obviously not saying what his take would be eventually. Did you ever get to that point of thinking of what you would do with a James Bond film?

I grew up with it too, and I deeply loved James Bond. I mean, I would love to, I would love to direct a James Bond for me. It would be pure, pure, massive pleasure. and uh it's a long career it's a it's a yeah it's a thing that uh i don't know one day may be a hope what have filmed but i have no the truth is uh um it's a thing it's a that james bond is again it's another one that it's very uh it's a dangerous that it's sometimes crystallized a bit I think that what Daniel Craig was able to do is fantastic. Fantastic.

But how to reinvent again or reboot that character. It's a big challenge, yeah. Do you find yourself still inspired by other films and filmmakers? Can you recall recent films? I mean, you've been kind of the box. You've been in the Blade Runner a whole for a while. Honestly, to be, I haven't seen a lot of movies in the past years. Okay, that's sadly the truth.

say that spontaneously, the two movies that I will say to you that deeply inspired me in the past, the first one is under the skin from Jonathan Glazer's. I deeply love that film. I mean, that... Hypnotic. Yeah, yeah. It's like

still one of my favorites in the recent memories. And this summer, I must say, I'm a movie like Dunkirk for me is why I love cinema. I mean, it's like that for me is It's, I think, really, a masterpiece. It's the best Christopher Nolan movie, and it's like what cinema should be.

You know, it's like it's all about exploration of movement and attention. It's pure cinema. Pure cinema, sir, yes, sorry, I was lost in my time. No, no, I understand. Are you a George Miller fan? Are you... I thought that when I saw Mad Max, I was applauding at the end

For me it was like an ultimate roadrunner show It's a good way to put it I thought that the level of pleasure In that movie was like very contagious Yeah well it's funny because like Ending on this note it's it's I put you in the company of people like Christopher Nolan and George Miller in that

And I think this is what you were getting at You are very generous Well no but what I mean by that is You know there's a lot of conversation I have on this podcast with people, as you can tell them, a big film fan and I, like many, worry about cinema and worry about what's landing in the multiplex and what people are making.

And all of these filmmakers that we've just mentioned, you all are creating films that need, that demand to be seen on the big screen with an audience. In a way I feel myself, I'm happy you're saying so because it's really the way I dream about movies as to be seen on the widescreen and I had just the privilege to do when Blade Runner was released in several versions

one of them is IMAX and it was the first time that I was doing a conversion of IMAX and it was planned at the beginning Roger and I shot the movie so it could be transferred into IMAX format I deeply love the IMAX version the frame, the what it creates and I think I'm going to shot my next

project for IMAX definitely again, I deeply love that so yeah, I try to I'm a dinosaur, I go the opposite direction, I go away from the iPhone screening experience.

No, it's funny how it's gone circular where I feel we're getting more 70 millimeter films, we're getting more film shots, film seems to be coming back in a way, but thanks to people that are kind of guarding it like Tarantino and Nolan and I feel like, you know,

there are certain unnamed block busters that I feel like the audience is getting it, that you can't just make it in a factory and just turn it out. It has to feel soulful from a unique point of view. So that's what I get out of your films. And I'm so appreciative of your time today. It was a pleasure to talk to you. I hope it made sense. Absolutely did. Absolutely did. You're welcome anytime. And looking forward to the next one. Congratulations again. Thank you. Thanks.

edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh. This is an ad by BetterHelp Online Therapy. October is the season for wearing masks and costumes, but some of us feel like we wear a mask can hide more often than we want to, at work, in social settings, around our family. Therapy can help you learn to accept all parts of yourself, so you can stop hiding and take

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Goodbye summer movies, hello fall. I'm Anthony Devaney. And I'm his twin brother, James. We host Raiders of the Lost Podcast, the ultimate movie podcast, and we are ecstatic to break down late summer and early fall releases. We have Leonardo DiCaprio leading a revolution in one battle after another, Timothy Salome playing power ping pong in Marty Supreme. Let's not forget Emma Stone and Jorgos Lantamos' Bagonia. Dwayne Johnson's coming for that Oscar in The Smashing Machine, Spike Lee and Denzel teaming up again, plus Daniel DeLuis's return from retirement. There will be plenty of blockbusters to chat about two. Tron Aries looks exceptional, plus Mortal Kombat too, and Edgar writes, The Running Man, starring Glenn Powell.

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