Happy Sad Confused - Denis Villeneuve, Vol. II

Episode Date: October 6, 2021

If you listen to this podcast you know one film has been obsessed about for years by Josh and many of his guests. Well it is time at last to discuss "Dune"! Josh welcomes the brilliant Denis Villeneuve (BLADE RUNNER 2049, ARRIVAL) back to the podcast to discuss his ambitious realization of the ultimate passion project. Don't forget to check out the Happy Sad Confused patreon here! We've got exclusive episodes of GAME NIGHT, video versions of the podcast, and more! For all of your media headlines remember to subscribe to The Wakeup newsletter here! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Today on Happy, Sayer Confused, Deney Villeneuve returns to talk about his passion project, Dune. Hey guys, Josh Haro, it's here with a great chat with one of my favorite filmmakers alive, Deney Villeneuve. I mean, look at the films of Deney, specifically this amazing sci-fi trio that he has launched the last few years, a rival, Blade Runner 2049, and now, Dune. These are just audacious, big swings,

and generally he's hitting them out of the park. I have to say Dune is an impressive piece of work. I have to see it again, to be honest, to really give you the full review to understand how I felt about it, because if you've listened to this podcast, you know this is a film I've been dying to see, for years. I mean, from the moment it was announced, I was so excited because, frankly, it was the

movie, not the book initially, that really touched me as a kid, David Lynch's movie, which is kind of a weird, compromised version of the book, but it really made an impact on me. Then when I heard Denise, who, you know, again, one of my favorite filmmakers working today had decided to do this, he cast Timmy Chalamey as Paul Atreides, and then he surrounds Timothy with the finest actors on the planet, Javier Barden, Josh Browenstel and Scarsguard, Zendaya, Oscar Isaac, Rebecca Ferguson. I mean, it's an embarrassment of riches. Jason Mamoa.

Jason Mamoa is fantastic in this movie. So this is not a spoilery chat. Of course, the book is out there, so kind of spoilers are out there if you want them anyway. But I did want to mention that this is coming a little early, right? So the movie doesn't actually open until October 22nd here in the States. It's been out, I believe, in a bunch of territories overseas already, doing pretty well. I'm happy to say because, guys, we need the second part. They haven't filmed the second part yet.

Depends on the box office. So this is a case where I'm truly, truly hoping that enough people go out to see this ambitious piece of work to warrant the sequel that we all need. Deney has been on a whirlwind tour. I caught him at, he was at the Toronto Film Festival and I chatted with him. he had jet lag English is not his first language there were all the ingredients for him to like just not invest himself in this conversation but he truly did and gave me the time and the thoughtfulness and he's also just like such a sweet and humble man

considering where he sits in the pantheon of filmmakers today so really appreciative that that Denis came back on the podcast for this chat about Dune and a great many other things a little bit of a look back at Blade Runner 24 49 and why he hasn't actually watched that film since it came out. A little bit about his love of Bond, which is really interesting. That part of the chat I found exciting and interesting. And I know he's gotten some flack recently about his comments on Marvel movies. Well, there's nothing like that here. In fact, just the opposite, he talks a bit about the one comic book character that he would not be able to say no to, that he would be interested in, that he

relates to. So there's what we call a tease in the business. Other things to mention. Well, this has been an exciting time as I tape this here in New York. The New York Film Festival is going strong. And it's been a real, I don't know, invigorating exciting time because I've been out and about to a bunch of screenings, a bunch of premieres, and a bunch of like parties, outdoor events where, you know, people were tested up the wazoo and I felt relatively safe. Nothing's 100%, but we're all trying to be as safe as possible still. And it was a nice kind of return to normalcy. If normalcy can be, you know, swanky parties at Tavern on the green. I mean, it's kind of crazy. The life that I get to dip into occasionally is pretty,

it's, you know, I count myself lucky and I truly am appreciative. And more appreciative than ever, considering the year and a half we've all had, that I'm back at these kind of fun events. and got to see Jane Campion's film Power of the Dog with Benedict Cumberbatch, got a chance to catch up with Benedict at that party. Got a chance to see, what else have I seen? Oh, he just saw passing. Rebecca Hall's very moving piece of work that she wrote and directed with Tessa Thompson and Ruth Naga.

Yeah, so it's, again, it's kind of like an interesting, it's really been a week filled with I wouldn't say routine things but things that I used to do in my routines so that's exciting not to mention that I'm excited that the box office is doing well Venom well I'm not the I will admit I'm not the biggest fan of the Venom movies

although I love Tom Hardy I'm excited that people are going to see it and that box office the box office is there and I have a feeling that bond no time to die which I liked I think that's going to do very well as well So maybe box office, maybe theaters aren't as dead as we thought they might be. I can sometimes be a little pessimistic.

So yes, so a lot to be excited for in the movie space. Other things to mention. Oh, well, I do want to mention, I think I teased this before. Any day now, look forward to my Comedy Central talk show with James McAvoy. Yes, James McAvoy returns the best. untitled Josh Horowitz show with James McAvoy. Very fun, very silly, very stupid, very inappropriate. I'll put that out on all of my social media stuff. Oh, I want to give a plug because this is an easy plug to give because I actually really love what Sean does. Sean McNulty, a buddy of mine, has this great

newsletter. I've mentioned it before. If you're like me and feel a little bit overwhelmed by all the entertainment headlines coming across your feed and you kind of like, why wouldn't it be good to have like an easy to read, digest of all of it every morning, the wake-up is for you. The wake-up is a newsletter. You sign up for the wakeup.substack.com, and it's there waiting for you in your inbox every morning. And it's a quick read. It's a fun read. Sean really gets the business, the business side and the entertainment side, and it's going to have all the headlines you want in terms of casting and big deals and more businessy side of things. It's, a good marriage of all of that stuff. So, again, the wakeup.substack.com completely free. Check it out.

Highly recommended. Let's see. Any other things I want to tease? Thanks, some good podcast coming up. New York Comic-Con coming up. Oh, so I wish I had the specifics on this. It keeps changing. I'll be honest. There's a panel I'm going to be on, I believe it's Saturday at 3.30. You're just going to have to look on the New York Comic Con website. I've been looking. I feel like they keep moving it around. I heard it was going to be Friday, but I think they've moved it to Saturday. Saturday at 3.30, I believe I'll be part of a panel with some other members of the Critics' Choice Association talking about big genre TV and film.

Look up on the panel schedule on Saturday. If you want to come out and say hi, I should be there. Saturday, 3.30 to 4.30. As I taped this, I think it still says Friday, but they were moving it to. Saturday. Could it be more confusing? No. But suffice it to say, I will be at New York Comic-Con for that. I'll also be competing at Saturday evening at the Schmodeown, this movie trivia kind of thing that I take part in at a live event in Brooklyn. If you just Google a movie trivia Shmodown, you'll see how to get tickets for that. That should be a fun night in Brooklyn as well.

You can cheer me on. Hopefully I will beat the great Griffin Newman fellow podcaster and movie nerd like myself. I think those are all the plugs and things I want to keep you guys apprised up. Except to say, of course, if you want to watch video versions of the podcast, if you want to watch tons of fun game night episodes,

patreon.com slash happy sad and confused. I'm putting this Denisville Nove talk on there. If you want to watch the video version of it, or virtually 90% of all the podcasts are on there in video form, which is a fun different way to experience it. You can see all the facial ticks that I've

and my guests have, and you can frankly learn a lot from somebody's body language watching it as opposed to listening to it. It's just a different experience, not to mention the Game Night episodes, which are just a fun, silly diversion. Okay, let's get to the main event, because this is a big one, one of the best filmmakers out there talking about, you know, you say this about a lot of films, but maybe the most eagerly anticipated film of the year. Certainly it was for me before I saw it. Dune, coming at you October 22nd here in the States, but right now, here's my chat with the great Teney Villeneuve. You know, it could be considered a fluke

to have a great filmmaker once on my podcast, but this is no fluke. DeNi Villeneuve is back on my little old podcast again. It's a great pleasure to see you, sir. Thank you so much for your time, as always, and a lot to talk about today. I hope you're feeling well. I'm very happy to be able.

So we, of course, last talked for Blade Runner, which felt at the time like, you know, the unfilmable, impossible film to mount, and you've succeeded it with perhaps the only thing you could succeed it with as a more unfilmable, unfathomable, a project. This is not just a film that some people feel is a passion project. It's your passion project. You've lived with this for 40 years since you read it as a child. How do you feel like, does this feel like a,

a conclusion in some ways for you? I mean, give me a sense of your emotions completing this first chapter. I would say that the feeling right now is like it feels like a beginning in a way that doing part one it's really like

I did open a door into a universe that I'm dreaming I was dreaming to explore or Sensor, you're right, maybe 14 years. And the main difficulty for me in adapting June was to make sure that I will try my best

to bring some of the images that I saw that came to in mind my mind when I read the book. And I was a very ambitious kid when I read the book. and to do so i succeeded some time other times not and so right now it's not like i feel like totally uh uh uh um that uh i totally succeeded i i just feel that i some part of the dream is there and uh it's like uh something that there's more to come i mean i in order to feel that the journey is completed in order to feel that I'm I've done it, I need more work. That's what I feel. You first read this book, as I understand it, when you were around the age of 13 or 14. And

I heard you say somewhere that you, in fact, with a friend, even drafted like storyboards for this film way back then. Do they still exist? Like, did you look back at what you had drawn way back them? I know that some drawings that still exist somewhere in my archives. I would say that at the time my best friend and I were discovering what was the job of the director, what was meaning to be a filmmaker and we started to dream about this idea of what could be, what would look like some elements of the novel but this was like of course just a fantasy it was just dreams because i never thought the time that i would have the privilege to bring to the screen it was out of my reach i was a canadian film maker meaning that i was like

i knew that i will evolve in a world where i will have total freedom but no money to it so it's like to do sci-fi was something that was like just out of reach slowly slowly and I started to feel that this could happen if I don't be necessary efforts. To be fair, it's a film virtually out of any filmmakers' reach, let alone a 13-year-old boy in Canada. This is a project that, you know, I've been, like, bathing in all things do in the last couple of weeks. I saw your film, and I love your film. I went back to, I have a lot of love and reverence for David Lynch's, a compromised version.

I watched the Yoderowski documentary, which is fascinating. So many filmmakers have tried to crack this. It is called by some an unfilmable property. And I'm curious for you, do you think you need to be a little bit mad as a filmmaker to tackle something like this? Do you need to kind of be a little bit out of your mind? Out of my mind or unconscious. I mean, like, I would see it is unfilomable.

It is like an impossible book to adapt. I mean, it's like the movie I've made is one adaptation. It's like that I made some radical choices in order to bring it to the screen. But if you want to, if you try to bring the book as it is to the screen, it would be like it's definitely when you do such an adaptation, you know you need to do a certain amount of transformation in order to be able to to bring that content into a cinematic form add to um it was a lot of work to be able to find a equilibrium between the amount of information that was required to in order to understand the story

and making sure that i would not put too much burden to the audience uh bring you know what's like And it is quite, it was very, very difficult that attention to me. Well, it is, it is something that drops you into a very complex world. It demands something of an audience. And I would imagine, yes, that is a challenge for a filmmaker in terms of like, how much information does the audience need? How much do I need to educate them on who is who, what is what, where is where, what are the rules of this universe?

Was that something you found in the writing or something you found in the editing and finding the balance of how much to lead the audience on and how much to let the audience kind of just live in this world and discover it as they go? It had to be found in the writing. I mean, it's really something that was found with the words before we went to images. Now, there was some precision that has been made as we were doing the editing. the editing but i would say the main equilibrium had to be found in the screen yeah it was like again a very long process of adaptation with the numerous brains that are working on it there was like eric rod john spade and i spent a month trying to crack the beast and again it's like uh it's my take on the book and uh but uh but uh when i saw david lynch version when i was young um i did feel that he uh he succeeded in some

areas and uh and other moments in his adaptation i felt that he had the uh went away from the the source material a bit too much there was things that some decision he made that i didn't agree with and i always thought that someone one day will do another adaptation i was i was waiting for this adaptation for a long time and it never happened so i had to do it if if you were to have a lovely meal with david lynch and yodoroski what do you think you would want to talk to these gentlemen about when you compare notes about your attempts i don't think that it would i would love to meet them but i don't think they would like to talk about doing that yeah david david is on He's done. He doesn't want to look back.

If I was meeting with Lynchwood, I think we'd be more interested to talk about painting or than you would like to talk about anything else. And I'm not expecting to have that chance to share the experience because I don't know if I succeeded, okay? I'm not, I have a very close to relationship with the movie I've made. It's a movie that I stand by. I'm kind of proud of the movie, but I'm not saying that it's to other people to judge if they feel if I succeeded

or not. So for me, it's not about the result, but it's about the process. And one thing I would love to share with Henry Jadovsky and with Lynch to talk about the process, the process of diving into this book, the process of being inspired by Herbert and trying to transform his words into images. And these gentlemen

are two completely different filmmaker than I am. They are two masters, two of the greatest filmmaker of all time, and they have massive cinematic personality. And they are

both well known to be able to create iconic images and to create very original and unseen images. I mean, it's like they are masters. So for me, to be more a way to educate myself than anything else. I would love it. It would be fantastic to have to take a coffee with and Lynch and Jodorowski and to talk about flies together. You mentioned, you know, dreams a lot. And I'm curious if when you're in the process of making this film in shooting this film are you dreaming about the film

as you're making it and what were those dreams like yeah I know definitely the thing at that at one point as a filmmaker your days become a continuous your brain is like always in contact with the object that you're shooting and it became like a continuous

never anything creative process as I would start to dreams would start to be more and more and more vivid as I'm getting closer to the shoot and they would inspire me and bring ideas that I will use it on the day or or gave me clues of what to do or what to do or just bring images I think that right from the start I said to my crew that as we start the design of the movie that i said to them i beg you guys don't let's start to let's try to stay away from the internet

or any kind of other influence that uh because there's a tendency right now that people will design the things and just create like a mood board or logbook that based on others people to work and uh which i it's a way people people work like that but for me i my dream was really to try to be in contact with something deeper, going back to old images that came from the subconscious images coming from childhood and things that were there before any kind of other influences, which of course is almost impossible. But I still wanted to have some kind of purity about the design. I tried at my best to stay away from any other influence, visual influence, and to try to go back to the truth of what this book meant to me when I read it.

Can you cite any specific scenes or images or moments in the film where you feel like you've touched, you've come at least 90% close to what you were striving for? To put it 90%. I will say that when the Benedict's sisters are landing on Caladan and then all the scene that follows over with the Comjabar. Gum Jabar is not far away from my childhood dream. The ambience, the room, the reverend mother, the presence, their magnetism, the tension, the fear, the colors, everything. That is super close to my dream.

Everything involving the desert, I would say, when Paul. and Lady Jessica, toward the end, will find a friend, and it's like a spoiler alert. It's a, that moment for me feels very, very close to what I had in mind when I read the book. Paul in his bedroom on Iraqi Street. There's like, it's like little glitz there and there that I feel that I, there's something about, something about the old atmosphere of the movie that is very close to what I had in mind. It's funny. We, you know, we always talk about, you know, world building per se in films, and this is not one world. You're, you're creating a universe. You're creating multiple worlds.

I think that's like, that's certainly, I would, I would say is one of the aspects, you know, we talk about how Star Wars was influenced by Dune. Like, you know, Star Wars has multiple planets in each film. And he does, you know, the planet of Hoth and Tatooine, and they are very distinct. In Dune, you can't get much more different from Caledan to Iraqis. Is that part of the joy for you as a filmmaker? It's like, I get to play in the sandbox that's, I'm not creating one world. I get to create multiple distinct worlds

that are all worthy of immersion. Yeah, and these world will add to add a strong meaning. This world would need to inform us about the different qualities of the different, let's say, tribes that are coming from these different world. And there was something in the book that I always was mesmerized by how a frank year break always went back to the idea of ecosystems

that you're the product of your environment. And the way these ecosystems has an impact on the way the people are adapting, survive, of course, and what would bend for the qualities of the people that would get out of it would be will be able to survive so such environments and it's like always going back to biology and there's something that I tried to stay in that logic with the design. I try to stay as close as possible to the spirit in which Frank Herbert wrote is novel.

You also assemble, I mean, one of the great casts, period, for us. sci-fi film or any film. I've seen it in recent years. It's just, to a man, everybody delivers fantastic performances in this. And many, I've never seen portrayed in this way. Jason Mamoa, I think this is Jason Mamoa's best role. I think it's a different kind of a role for him, uses him in different ways, and it's just endlessly rewarding to see him in that. Can you talk to me a little bit about which characters or which actors surprised you in a way, I mean, Paul is the key, and that's the character, obviously, that this rests on. But was there a challenging other character to cast?

What was the one that was kind of most in your mind that was a challenging one? What was great about casting, June, is that I've been living with these characters since 40 years. I knew exactly who are the characters. I know exactly which qualities I was looking for as I was doing casting. and had a list of my first choices for each character, and that list is dangerously close to that thing right now. Sometimes people were not available, whatever, but in general, it's pretty close to my dream list. And the thing is, all of them came on board with great enthusiasm.

And I think I can speak for them saying that they will all agree that there was a kind of very positive energy thinking that they could work on this adaptation of this book because they all, in general, either had a specific relationship with the book or were excited by the idea of participating to this. So it was easy to bring people on board. and to convince nobody they just like when i was making a phone call it was always like a very spontaneous yes fantastic let's do it it was like a now if who did surprise me it's i i would say that they all in their own way are different all surprised me in different ways i mean it's like uh it's what i'm expecting from actress you know to do to this stabilize me or to write reading to the screen that I was not expecting that uh and they uh all i would say frankly all gave their best um so i i i would put the name on some something specific

have you started to think about casting i mean you have a few very key roles we have not seen yet we have not seen the emperor we've not seen the princess we've not seen fade um have you talk to actors about those roles yet no i i uh the thing was that i had to focus on june part one and for june part two uh i will i will dare to approach uh actors or actresses once i knew that the movie would be brilliant otherwise i don't have the usually i don't call people when i'm not sure about something so when i'm sure but that process will go pretty fast because of course I have strong ideas. I mean, precise ideas in my mind.

Yes. Which of those characters are you most excited to potentially realize in the second part? There must be scenes, again, and specific new characters that you must be just chomping at the bit to realize on the big screen. Of course, I mean, it's like, as I was for the first part, I mean, it's like the big difference between, I want to not answer to your question, but the big difference for me between both parts is, is that in june part one it's it's an it is an introduction to a world yes i said the table now and june part two i'm bringing the meal you know it's like it's like it's like where i will have more space to have fun with cinema i'll be bound to explain things i will

have more i think it's going to be more joyful process to do it i was talking to Timmy Shaoamay the other day. And, you know, he was curious himself. He hasn't, he said he wasn't sure if Dune Part 2 picks up immediately after Dune Part 1 ends or if there's a gap because he's wondering if he should physically transform. Does, does, is the Paul we see there a couple years later? Has he built out? Is he, you know, now a man among the Bremen? Can you say anything about that? Are we going to see a much different Paul at the outset of Dune Part 2? I don't want to say nothing about Dune Part 2. I'm someone that is very, I have the tendency, I like to be secretive, I like to not say things,

it's it, it's already too much for me to, to, to announce that I would do a part two. It's like, say, in the perfect world, I would love to make movies into a total secrecy. And then it's not the world we are in today, but it's like that I like to focus and not think about having to explain or it's it's a no I cannot talk about that I understand I understand I'm just trying to will it into existence I'm also curious about it it was it yet I mean that I need I cannot talk about this first step you know I understand I understand I mean another project related to Dunes was announced I don't know what state it's in but is um is the Benny Jesuit focused show

still something that's in development something you're planning on on doing yeah it's it's it's a fantastic project that is in development right now it's uh of course it's a kind of complex and it takes a little bit of time but it's moving forward and something that it's quite exciting and i am not as involved in it as a feature film of course because i'm My focus is entirely devoted, concentrated on the feature film. But if things go according to the planet, it should see the light of the day. I don't know why. It's like it's a development.

So I think... Got it. It's like, it's difficult to talk about things that are like... no it's fair enough fair enough i'm curious i mean this the development of this project it's obviously been on your your brain for many years was it something that you were working on or or talking to legendary about prior to blade runner does this predate even blade runner 2049 or did it come only after oh no it's it's uh i uh i knew that the there was thought that the the riots were in negotiation that the rights were available and I was like interested to get them and when I learned that

the degree had the rights I expressed the fact that I was it was a dream of mine that they heard me and we met but it was like I had that meeting if I was with as I was finishing Blade Runner I mean this was not uh got it We never know, it was not out yet, but it was almost toward the end of the process. And I, um, it was like a very, uh, let's say it was a very fast meeting because we, we basically, we agree, agreed very spontaneously on the basic of the project and Mary Barrett and I shook. And that was it. It was like a fastest, fastest meeting I ever done. It seems like that timing is fortuitous.

because, I mean, you know, the jump to Blade Runner from Arrival is huge. But there are probably some necessary, some probably great lessons learned from production of Blade Runner. I would imagine that you applied to Dune. Is it fair to say that making Blade Runner 2049 helped you wrap your brain around how to approach something besides with Dune? Totally. I mean, I would have never been able to do Dune without doing an arrival and Blade Runner. And by the way, all the movies I've made before, because they are like, each movie in a way is always like a crash course on something new about the art of filmmaking. I mean, it's like, for instance, in Playranger, it was about world building.

And of course, I was building a world according to very specific laws that had been written by Ridley Scott. It's like I was playing on somebody else's playground. but still had to build that world and bring it to life and there was a I made brother 2014 and was for me a massive crash course into how to create realism into visual effects to be effects I had insane chance and privilege and to sit beside Roger Beekins as we were bringing to life every single shot in Blade Runner. And so it means that it was like a master class on how to create VFX shots. And I learned so much with what it begins.

I mean, it's like as I was directing the VFX crew, I'm doing. June, I knew that I was able to do so because of Roger, everything I learned with Roger. So I would have never been able to do it without having done in Toronto, 2014, I know with Roger Beacon. That's for sure. I still have so much admiration for what you did on Blade Runner. That film is a miracle to me. I think we talked about it at the time of like how you can even succeed what Ridley was able

to do and honor it and do your own thing is still remarkable to me. with i have a very uh i apologize to interrupt your question that's me and my relationship with bera 2049 is is uh still uh haven't watched the movie uh since the premiere i mean it's like i'm still like i'm still uh trying to find comfort and and uh and to uh it's normal by the way uh it's how to deal with your work from the past and then uh I'm looking forward to see the movie again one day when I will have the distance. That is interesting because that was kind of

what I was going to ask about was about whether you have more perspective on that film now because I think it was received so well from critics. It did, I mean, it made a tremendous amount of money, perhaps not as much as the studio was hoping for. Yeah, the thing is, I will say one thing. The miracle for me about Blade Runner 2049 is the following is that I'm still making movies

and you are still talking to me. I knew that when I did this movie, I flirted with disaster. I put myself into massive artistic danger. That was like walking, as Christopher Holland said to me once, you're walking in sacred territory, man. It's true. It's like a, it was like a sacrilegious, what I did. It would like, you don't do that. You know, you don't know. You're crossing the movie gods. You're challenging them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So just the fact that I'm still, and I'm still here making movies for me, it's like, I don't know what worth the movie, but I know that at least I was not banned from the filmmaker community. I mean, I would say. thinking about that, but it could have been, yeah, it was a dangerous game to play, I would say.

It's something for Christopher Nolan to say that, who has clearly made extremely challenging work to say, you know what, you're going too far. This is day and true. I'm looking at me as I know, I know, I know, I know. So I guess this answer is my next question, but there's no talk of anything else in that universe, I take it, of returning to Blade Runner in a series or anything. It's what's done is done. You've done your, time in that universe. But let's say, frankly, it was such a privilege to do it once. And I will say this, I deep, you know, going into that, that Blade Runner bubble.

And I feel that when I did that when I did it I was like learning things and I feel that if I had to go back again to be much more in control of the tools and I would be much more able to bring something meaningful to life and I'm not saying that I will never go back in Los Angeles in the 21st century again. I think it's like it's

really a space that I deeply love but in the same time I have to be careful because it's like it's a really just got the world you know it's not mine I don't I was invited once I don't have been there

to knock on the door and say hey can I come back I'm not sure if I had the right to do that I did already to do it to go there once was like a once in a life time chance. I would be able to go back, but I would love to definitely play in that zone again. It's like it's so inspiring. You mentioned Christopher Nolan and you two seem to, you two are cheerleaders for each other. There's clearly a lot of admiration between the two of you.

What is the nature of your friendship relationship? I mean, do you show each other your work? Or is it just sort of a familial thing? Like after a film is out, you'll touch base and compare notes or what is it? I want to be very careful here. I will say that I have massive respect for knowledge of work. I think it's one of, in my humble opinion,

by far one of the most important. important maker working today and there are very few people honored that will be able to do what Nolan is doing right now. And saying this in my mind, the truth I'm thinking is alone. It's a small club, yes. He is, and so my, I'm, yeah, he has all my respect and admiration, and there's a bird of a friendship there that is very important for me, but that's all I can say is someone that I deeply respect and his opinion, obviously massively mattered to me. When we spoke a few years back, you know, the subject of comic book films came up, as it often does in my conversations, and you were very open and frank. You didn't grow up, you know, loving superheroes. It's not, was it just wasn't the kind of material that you were reading about and connecting with.

Since then, I feel, you know, there was talk that Warner Brothers, who you've made a lot of great work for, approached you for Batman. I don't know if that was something that was, was that even tempting, if that was a discussion? Like, has there been, in those intermittent years, thought of a hero that you connected with? The thing is, to be honest with you and Frank, sometimes I have a very bad memory, so sometimes I don't recall. But I don't remember I had been approached by Batman. I think that I already knew that I was deeply busy during Dune, so I don't think that is Batman would be probably the only character that I could relate to. from what I read, like Archimson or a book like that, that I got in contact with when I was an adult. It's for me the character that I could connect to.

But the others, I don't know them. And that's like, and I don't know if I would dare to approach Batman after what not. didn't and now Matt Reeves does I mean it's like I'm sure I can't wait to see his movie I'm a big fan of his work and from what I've seen so far it's super exciting so

I think that it has been everything that would need to be said about Batman would probably have been done so I don't think I will put it this way there are so many directors right now that love

Marvel and DC. That is part of their DNA, that's part of their education, that it's part, and they have reference and deep love for this universe, which I don't. So it's, it's that, that's their toys, that's their space. I'm not saying, I'm, I'm, I'm an outsider. Well, and you're in, you're reveling in your space. Part of what I love about your career is, you know, a lot of people sometimes put down sci-fi as kind of like a diversion, not important work. And if anything, you built up to this. You're like, I want to get to the point where I get to make these stories that really connect with me on a visceral level.

I mean, your last three films, Arrival, Blade Runner, Dune, I can't think of a trio of more challenging, fascinating, high-level sci-fi than what you've made. It's not something here, thank you, but one thing you said is, I take sci-fi very seriously. For me, it's like some people I know says there's not another humor or it's not like, no, for me, sci-fi is not a joke, it's not something that I want to, I won't, it's a very powerful tool and it's something that I believe in its power and I, I'm, I'm, uh, I'm just, like, deeply happy to finally be able to evolve in that genre and to try to arrogance and pretension, maybe, but to try to bring something fresh about it.

It's like, but I've been dreaming to do sci-fi since I'm 10 years old. So it's like, yeah, I take it very seriously. What are, you know, I know you spoke to Chloe Zhao recently. She's a fascinating filmmaker. The fact that you've mentioned Marvel, it's fascinating that she's taking on something like Eternals. Are there any filmmakers in recent years? I know you've been in the Dune Hole,

and prior to that the Blade Runner Hole, but that you found inspiring that have taken on genre material, specifically sci-fi. There's a lot of people, let's think about Neil Dukam, for instance. Neil has done... insane, strong work.

I mean, what he brought to science fiction I thought was absolutely fantastic. Alex Garman. I'm a big... Yes, yes. I mean, all these movies, is making a annihilation. I haven't seen this TV series, unfortunately, yet.

But I think this guy pushed the boundaries. A big time. I love the word of what I said very often Jonathan Glazer under the skin for me. It was like a pure gem. I mean, one of my favorite of the past 20 years. I mean, it was like, I'm sure I will forget people right now.

That's why I don't like to do those. Those are a few and the ones that are omitted will understand. Nolan is in the very front row of the people that are pushing the boundaries of science fiction and bringing ability, intelligence, and indigence to it. We're in a bit of a different spot than when we spoke four years ago, when I brought up James Bond and you clearly were a big Bond fan. That's a character and a series that you connected with. Back then, there wasn't a job opening, but soon we are going to see the last,

Daniel Craig Bond and soon enough thereafter, I'm sure they're going to start to think about how they reboot this character. Would you be that the guy for that job? Would you be interested if they came to you and said, how do you want to reboot Bond? Frankly, and I cannot believe I would say that, but the answer will be a massive yes. I would deeply love to one day make a James Bond movie. I've been with like everybody, like since my childhood and it's like I have like massive affection for Bond

but I mean it would be a big challenge for the people who will try to reboot and bring something new after what Daniel did and again he was like what Daniel Craig brought

Bond is so unique and strong and probably unmatchable. I mean, it's like he's probably the ultimate James Bond. And I can't wait to see Carrie's movie. Yeah. I'm very excited. I'm one of the biggest Bond fans. Well, that fits the bill for you. Considering these last couple films are these like insane challenges.

Again, following up Daniel Craig, the ultimate James Bond. And that's the man for the job is obviously the guy that succeeds Blade Runner and films do. I'm just thinking about it, I'm tired, but no, no, one thing at the time, it's a lesson, it's already a massive privilege. I don't want to be, I can sound very arrogant and pretentious right now. It's true that it would be a dream that we follow the Apollo 7. Arrogance and pretension are not becoming, yeah.

Some such a thing will happen, but let's say that it would be a big privilege, too, and because at the end of the day, that would be pure cinematic joy to do. Yeah. You know, as we wrap up, we're all kind of feeling like we're in an existential crisis for film. I mean, we were in an existential crisis a few years ago, and then COVID hit, of course, and it was sort of seemed like an accelerant to movie theaters being in trouble. I mean, what keeps you up at night as a film lover, as a fan of the cinematic experience?

Do you, are you an optimist at a hard or a pessimist about the future of film going? I'm optimistic. I'm deeply optimistic about the future of cinema and with the theatrical experience because it's at the very core of the language. And I think that there's nothing. It's the experience is absolutely unmatchable

what you experience when you're a movie theater, you can't reproduce at home, Even if you have the best screen in the ball sound system possible, it's not the same. Unless you have your own very own personal movie theater, I mean, like a huge. It's something that what keeps me up at night, it's not the future of movies and theaters. Like big, massive Hollywood movies. I think these will survive. This will be on screen.

this as long as there would be cinema there would be movie in theaters but what the keeps me up it's the which film do will have access to those screens and I think that I was raised time where you could see in Montreal a huge amount of movies from Europe or art house movies and these movies have less and less space on screen that you know talking about art house yeah that these movies uh legitimately legitimately needs the big screen as Hollywood does it's like and that's where I feel that a movie like Alfonso Quar and Roma when you look at Roma on a big screen it's like unique sublime sublime a cinematic experience if you look at Roma on a

bad you will not experience the same it's when you will have you will receive a 10% of the movie it's like it's not the same and and and that's where the battle will happen is how much can we protect the the access to the big string to uh to the art house for the art house filmmaker and that's it's something i am i am going to fight for well this film It's not Roma, but it is clearly still deeply personal to you. And that translates, or your passion for this film is on the big screen. I got a chance to see it in a theater.

And it is truly an overwhelming sensory experience. I've only seen it once. I'm dying to get back in there to see it because the marriage of visual and sound, I mean, the sound mix on this is just beyond. It's just amazing. So I hope you get some rest. And I know they're running you around the world

for a good cause, but I hope you feel good about what you've created here because this is a passion project for a passion film for me too i mean i grew up with this material and to see it realized in this way is um really inspiring and i i'm always inspired by our chats and i i really truly appreciate the time as always thank you very much for your generosity and so ends another edition of happy sad confused remember to review rate and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts i'm a big podcast person i'm daisy riddley and i definitely He did this by Josh. The Old West is an iconic period of American history and full of legendary figures whose names still resonate today.

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