Happy Sad Confused - Ed Harris

Episode Date: December 6, 2019

Who do you turn to to take on an iconic role like Atticus Finch? Who can possibly project intelligence and decency and make the part their own, standing outside the long shadow of Gregory Peck? Ed Harris is of course the man for the job. The 4-time Oscar nominee joins Josh this week on "Happy Sad Confused" to talk about his run on Broadway in "To Kill a Mockingbird", why he can't stand downtime on a set, and how he keeps it all fresh on stage and in film. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Eligibility restrictions apply. See Golden Nuggett Casino.com for details. Please play responsibly. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now. Today on Happy, Sad, Confused, Ed Harris returns to the stage for an iconic role. Hey, guys, I'm Josh Horowitz. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused.

Yes, another fantastic actor who I've never had on the podcast. makes his debut on today's edition of Happy Second Fused. And I mean it when I say it, he is one of our greats. I always know when Ed Harris pops up on the screen, quality work is coming right at me. And I'm sure you agree. He is currently starring as Atticus Finch himself in Aaron Sorkin's interpretation of the beautiful Harper Lee work to kill a mockingbird. it is on Broadway right now. Ed has taken over for Jeff Daniels in the lead role. This is a great performance and a fantastic show. He's only going to be doing it, I think he said, for about

three, four more months. So get your tickets now because he's fantastic. I saw the show last night. The play, I mean, you know the story. We've all read to Kill a Mockingbird, but it is definitely it honors that story, but it is definitely treated in a different way in terms of story structure. And as you might expect, Ed Harris is fantastic in the lead role. You know, he won't make you forget Gregory Peck, nor should you, but it is a different take on a fantastic role. So check it out to kill a mockingbird now on Broadway. And just a distinct pleasure to have Ed Harris on the show to talk about an amazing, amazing career acting for Oscar nominations. in a storied career, and we cover a lot of it.

So I'm really thrilled to have them on the show today. Beyond that, I have some important, exciting news, guys. Okay, so I hope you're sitting down. I'm going to give you a second. You ready? Okay, good. Happy, sad, confused is going live. I've been thinking about doing this for a long, long time.

We are about to do our very first live happy, sad, confused event in New York City, just in time for the hobby. So tickets are on sale. This is all going to charity. It is going to be benefiting two great organizations, NRDC, the Natural Resources Defense Council. All they're doing is basically saving the planet. And Community Works, which is a non-profit theater organization in New York doing great work. And you might be asking, okay, what is it? Okay, here it is. December 22nd, the Bell House Theater in New York, in Brooklyn. It's going to be me. and David Harbour and friends. So me and David, uh, for a big old show talking about his career, his life, the holidays, games, fun, maybe a little singing. Uh, who knows, David Harbour, if you've heard his podcast before on Happy Say I Confused, you know he's one of the best. Um, so thrilled that he's going to be the main guest on this very first live edition of Happy Say I Confused. Additional guests will be there. We've got Justin Long.

We've got Patrick Wilson. We've got a lot of surprises. Some really cool stuff coming up for this show. I couldn't be more excited. You can buy tickets right now. Go to the bellhouse, n.com. The bellhouse, n.com. Look for the event.

It's on December 22nd. And the good news, as I said, all proceeds are going to charity. There's also, I should say, some VIP tickets available in which you'll get a signed stranger. things poster from David Harbor. So I don't know what more I could be offering you guys. I'm offering you entertainment, charity, signed paraphernalia. It's going to be great. And if you've been a long time listener to Happy Second Fused, or if you're a new listener and you're in the New York area for the holidays, I hope you'll come by, say hello, and enjoy what will be a special

night. I couldn't be more excited. So yeah, happy Second Fused Live, December 22nd. Go to the Bellhouse, NY.com for tickets. Beyond that, let's see, what else should we catch up on, guys? Well, there's Star Wars to talk about. No, I haven't seen it yet. Nobody has seen it yet outside of the cast. But I did get a chance to sit down with the entire gang the other day in Los Angeles, and it was fantastic.

I'm still not absorbing the fact that this will be, was the last time I'm going to talk to this cast about a Star Wars film. I'm in major denial because I love them so much. But, yeah, they were fantastic. We played some games, had some silly fun conversations, Daisy and John and Oscar and JJ, the whole gang. Those conversations are going to be going up very soon on MTV's platforms, as it were, YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter. I will send it on out. So if you follow me, you'll be able to see all that fun stuff.

One other thing to hype up that I've been doing lately, as you know, if you follow me, you know I've been doing this great, new series. I think it's great, at least, called On Location. I've been having a blast with it. It's for the Paramount Network where we've been visiting iconic film locations with actors or filmmakers associated with the film. Well, our latest episode is up, and I'm so proud of it. It's on 500 Days of Summer, and it's with the wonderful Zoe Deschanel. We went back to the Redwood, which is a bar restaurant in downtown L.A. It's the scene in the film, if you remember where they karaoke and they really kind of bond Joseph Gordon-Levon and Zoe Deschanel's characters. So we went back to that karaoke bar, had a blast with Zoe, and the

episode came out great, and I'm so proud of it. You can, again, check that out on my social media, Joshua Horowitz, or go to Paramount Network's YouTube page or Facebook page. It's up there. That's the newest episode of On Location. Okay, that's enough plugs for now. I gave you an episode of On Location. I gave you Star Wars. I give you a live event. And I'm now going to give you the one and only Mr. Ed Harris. Remember to review, rate and subscribe to Happy Say I Confused. I hope you guys enjoy this episode. How can you not? Here's Ed. I'm just thrilled beyond belief, though, that Ed Harris is sitting in my office. It's good to have you here, sir. Thank you, Josh. Good to be here.

Congratulations on this new slash old piece of work. I mean, obviously to kill mocking Bird is very familiar to all of us, but this is through the lens of Aaron Sorkin, and this is through your wonderful performance. Talk to me. I was just telling you, I saw you on stage last night. Like, do you recall each performance when you come off stage? Are you like, that was a good one? That was a B plus.

That was an A minus. I definitely have a feeling about the evening for sure. Yeah. Last night was actually, I actually felt last night was one of our best shows that we had in the last five weeks. You know, I think that's how many, this is our fifth week of doing. of 24 for me. Not that I'm counting.

You don't have like an etched in the wall as you walk upstairs and cross another one off. You know, but Aaron's script is such that it's kind of a bottomless pit. In other words, you could just, you know, every night is something new you're exploring. So I just trying to keep penetrating it. And last night it just felt very connected to what was going on. I mean, you've obviously done so much theater in your life.

I'm wondering, like, is the goal to perfect it at a certain point and then replicate it from there on out. Hell no. No. Not for me. You're reiterating every time. Maybe for some people. But to me, it's a, I really try to see where it's going to take me every night.

You know, it's a whole new journey, hopefully, every night. And not that there's certain things that come out pretty much the same. But, you know, any given line, any given thing you say is an infinite variety, ways to communicate where you're trying to say. with those words, as well as listening and responding to what you're getting from your fellow actors. So it's always very alive, you know, try to keep it very fresh. Is that part of the discipline to never go on autopilot to be present? Well, it is for me. You know, I mean, it's all about being present, you know, having your feet on the ground and breathing and in the

moment, if you will. If and when your mind ever wanders, is there a way to get back and back? I try to feel my feet on the ground, let gravity do its work and breathe. Interesting. And listen. Get my head out of my ass. Right.

Good lessons for all of us, no matter what your line of work. Exactly. Actually, very apropos to my line of work, too. I mean, talk to me about, you know, tackling something like this, which, you know, Atticus Finch, in some ways, it's like Mickey Mouse or Santa Claus.

It's an icon as much as it's a flesh and point. Very much so. And your goal, obviously, as an actor, is to make him feel the feel on the ground. Well, you know, when I was first asked to do this, I got an email from Scott Rudin, the producer. You know, I was in San Francisco watching my daughter in a play up there. And it was just something like, you know, from Scott Rood, I don't care, where does he whine? It says, do you want to play Atticus Finch? And I knew, you know, I knew Jeff was doing it.

I knew the play had been going on for quite a while. And I got, you know, my heart's. I stopped beating a little bit. I got kind of excited. And my first thought was, okay, well, how do I get Gregory Peck out of my head? Because it's such an indelible image. And I love that film, and I haven't seen it for quite a while, but I've seen it a number of times.

It's a grand with all of us, yeah. And what was very helpful in terms of getting him out of my head was Aaron's script, because he really kind of cracked the story open a little bit, you know, and he's made it extremely relevant, I think, to today. Not that it wasn't initially, but it even more so now. And during the process of rehearsal, it was possible to finally just, you know, let that Gregory and that film be. And like, this is a whole new deal we're dealing with,

a whole new experience, and let's just see where it takes us, you know. I think what you say is very true. It's often a cliche when I'm talking to actors and stuff about new projects of like the relevancy that has today, but truly watching it last night and hearing the language and the themes expressed, you know, how to be a deal. decent person in indecent times is something that I think we're all kind of well yeah I mean it's it's it's it's a it's about a lot of things are in kind of short supply today at least you know

coming from the from the head of our government um honor you know truth courage yeah respect tolerance etc you can name it and not to mention dealing with you know I mean I think for some of us that that that I won't speak for you but like I like a lot of people you know in the last administration like oh like we've solved some problems we've moved past some things it may it might we might have deluded ourselves big time right well yeah obviously we did and all this stuff has been dredged up and it's it's just going to be the constant battle you know I mean in terms of listening to like the Bob Ewell character or his daughter spout this racist you know talk. It's

the kind of thing that, you know, Aryans and white supremacists are have a voice now, you know. And you hear too much. It's chilling. Yeah. So you never saw Jeff's performance. That was that a conscious

decision to avoid? I hadn't seen it prior to being asked to do it. And when I was when I decided to do it, I didn't want to see it. I just didn't want to be influenced by, you already had peck to deal with. Why deal with another? Yeah, yeah. I mean, I, I don't It was a wonderful, wonderful production, I'm sure it is, and we got a new group of people and we're doing our own things. So is the blocking, do you kind of like start from scratch in some ways?

Well, you know, I mean, you saw the, you saw the play, and so in terms of all the movement of all the stage pieces and all that, it has to be the same. And so there are certain, and then in terms of the lighting and, but a lot of things have all changed a little bit, you know, and within scenes and the relationships, I mean, I mean, it's all, we approached it, at least Bart, you know, the director, Bart LaSherer. He really encouraged us, you know, let's explore this play like we're doing it the first time. I mean, it was more of a job for him to allow himself to open his mind a little bit, right? Yeah, open his mind and allow us to explore, which he did, to his credit, you know.

Talk to me a little bit, I mean, struck me last night watching it, like, you mentioned that how Aaron has kind of cracked this open. I mean, it's a very familiar story, but it's, it's in the way it's. told and the way it plays with time and the narration of the kids who are older and it works somehow. At first you're like, wait, is this going to work? I know, right? It's like, this feels like this is a recipe for disaster and somehow it totally works. But the thing I was going to say is you get to kind of present to the audience quite a bit too. As much as you're like kind of like, you know, obviously a big portion of the stage show is the trial. Is that helpful in a way and that you have kind of like these moments where you're you're as much playing to the audience as

to your fellow actor. Well particularly you know it's like in his whole summation you know I mean it's it's weird because the jury is all of white men right who aren't there which we never see you know which is kind of fine you know you really don't need a dozen white guys sitting up there you know but in it just in terms of the directorially you know the audience kind of becomes the jury Yes. You know, and that's just, that has been, that's basically what the director has asked us to do. You know, I mean, and Scout talks to the audience quite a bit because she's narrating it as well as the other, you know, the other two kids. But it, you know, you can't help but be, you know, you can't help but be aware of the energy of the audience because there's a lot of laughter.

The consistency of the responses in the audience is kind of remarkable in terms of where you know what's going to be coming. You know, there's certain levels of intensity of those responses, but it's invariably 95% in the same spots every night. I think it was remarkable, too. I mean, I know this as an audience member, like the difference in stillness. There are different kinds of quiet, I feel like you can feel. I don't know about you as an actor. Definitely. There's just quiet, and then there's just like a chill in the air where it's just like sub-quiet.

It gets even, do you know what I mean? How aware are you of that? And does that make the hairs on the back of your neck stand up when you feel those moments? Well, you try to make sure those, you try to demand those moments, tell you the truth. Yeah. That means it's working. Yeah. I mean, you have to sometimes.

You have to say, we're just here right now, everybody. shut the fuck up you know maybe stop coughing so much yeah what takes what gets under your skin the most when you're seeing out into an audience I mean well phone's ringing

does it still happen much yeah two nights ago happened a couple times that's crazy um and people that yeah no you can

you just you know you have that split consciousness where you're you're on the stage and you're dealing with the actress, but you're very aware of the energy out there. Yeah. And you, you know, you have to deal with it. You have to hopefully control it in some way. Right.

So we were talking about, you know, the themes of decency. You know, Atticus, like, stands in literature and in pop culture for many. Growing up is sort of like the epitome of decency of what it means to be a good husband and a father and just a decent man. troubling times growing up did you have that kind of picture of of decency to look up to well i gotta say that my dad was incredibly decent individual he was very gentle very kind very generous uh even though he didn't have much but he was very generous open-hearted very liberal very tolerant um i mean he never raised his voice hardly ever ever ever

I mean, the only time he ever really got seriously upset with me, when I was like 14, and I used to sneak out a night and take the car and pick my buddies up and drive around Tentafly, New Jersey, where I grew up. And one night, a pal of mine wanted to drive and smash the car into a tree. So my dad wasn't so happy about that. That was a brand new car, which we could hardly afford anyway.

And he came into my room the next day, and he said, is what are you going to do next ed rob county trust bank i mean that was as mad as he ever got at me right but that i mean and how much of an impact that makes when even he raises his voice slightly and it with a tone i mean you still remember it now yeah well what i said is yeah dad that's exactly what i'm going to do i was just being a smart ass you're being a kid and then the other dad probably would have smacked me but back then but no not even close huh he was very very honorable individual i got to say what did your family make of your decision to get into the years?

Well, you know, it was kind of gradual. I mean, I didn't start studying acting until I was 21, I think. So was it a shock to them that I like it? Because you were on the athletic kind of path. Yeah, I don't think it was a shock. I mean, my dad was a singer, you know, and he was entertainer and did a lot of theater,

community theater kind of thing. It's been a few films with me. And he was in the early days of TV, like a Perry Como show and the Gary Moore show. So it wasn't, no, I think they're always encouraged, you know, if there's something you want to do and you, you know, want to work at it, go ahead. He must have gotten a kick out of it then if that was part of his...

I think so, yeah, I think I'm pretty proud. They were pretty proud of him. He was pretty proud of me. So, you know, obviously we're on time to go through every single thing. But like the first time I saw you growing up, and coincidentally, I watched this film recently was the right stuff. Yeah, man, that was like, what, 18, 37 years? ago. I mean, but it was such a...

Was it that long ago? It was 83, right? In 83, yeah. Philip Kaufman, Caleb Deschanel, the DP. I mean, everybody, it's just the top-notch production from top to bottom. The Bill Conti score. Oh, my God. I was watching it the other day, like, you're near, I'm near tears watching the end when, you know, Dennis Quaid's up there, you're a mission control. It's also, I mean, a number of things jump out to me about it, like the company of actors you were with. I mean, they were your contemporaries. They are your contemporaries.

Did it feel like this is, you know, that was, you know, you think of like the big chill. I think a movie like, like, right stuff. There were a few films where that really collected a lot of talent on screen. Dennis, Scott Glenn, Fred Ward, yeah. And did you know those guys before, during, after? Did you feel a camaraderie with that group? We felt, you know, we felt it was a camaraderie during that time. Yeah.

For sure, when we were working together. You know, there's also a little bit of probably a little bit of competition or something, you know, which was kind of built into the story a little bit. But, you know, kind of keep tabs. I didn't really become super close friends with any of them. You know, I did work with Sam quite a bit after that, you know. Well, right around that, you also did Fool for Love, right? It was after we had shot it, yeah.

That's when he was working on it. I remember we had a reading during filming, but then it was the fall after we had finished film that we actually did it at The Magic, and then we moved it, Circle Rep, you know. Yeah. So was he somebody that you maintained a relationship with two a degree over the years? Yeah, definitely. Special man. Yeah.

I could do everything. No, I miss him. Yeah. So that movie also starts this kind of strange, like, mini track in your career of the, you're returning to the space program a few different times in odd ways. Do you have, like, executive privilege at NASA? No, but they, you know, they often ask me to show up whatever or something, and I'm usually busy and, you know, No, I have, I mean, I think space exploration, I've nothing against it, but I'm not a huge... Just one of those coincidences, but I mean, some icons. I mean, John Glengen Crens, I mean, these are...

Yeah, no, I mean, it's been fun playing those guys and I learned a lot about the flight and the space program doing those films, but it's not like something that I... Right. It's not one of something that's... I'm going to go after these space films, no, just it's the way... Yeah. I think a lot of people, yeah, I mean, either. This is a constant refraining conversations. A lot of people from the outside looking and think actors are in control of their own careers.

And some, you know, if you're Tom Cruise, you can choose a lot. Yeah, right. You laugh at that. Have you ever felt like you're steering the ship of your career or do you feel like it's... Well, more so theater-wise in terms of deciding to do a play or not, you know. And, you know, I mean, I guess the only control I have is saying no, basically. Which is a powerful thing. I don't want to do that.

I don't want to do that, you know. What are the turnoffs for you in a process? Are there things you see in a script or you're like, you throw that across the way? You know, just whether it's just lame, you know, or a character that is just not appealing to me. That it's just not something I want to investigate right now. Could be the director, somebody I don't have any feeling for or whatever. You never know. So in the years, was the right stuff a bit of a turning point?

I guess so, for sure. I mean, it was the first kind of major film I was in, you know. and started, yeah, I started working quite a bit after that, I guess. Working with some quality directors to do, Jonathan Demi, Robert Benton. Yeah, Benton and Louis Maugh and, you know. For you, you know, if you don't want to talk about it, it's totally fine. But for years, I know the Abyss has been a tough subject for you to talk about because it wasn't. Oh, it's not tough anymore, but it was just a really tough shoot.

I mean, it was. Yeah. Yeah. So when you look from day one, was it? I think the Abyss, I think it's a really good movie. The last 10 minutes. I love that movie. I was really disappointed in Jim's, in this thing that comes up out of the water.

It just looked like a tie-died bathtub or something. I just didn't understand that, you know. So from day one, was it just like oil and water? You and Jim, it just felt like that. No, no, it's not so much. Jim and I, oil and water. It was a situation we were in. I mean, we were down South Carolina shooting in this abandoned nuclear power plant

in a big, you know, cooling tank that had never been activated. 700,000 gallons of water and we had to shoot at night for one thing right because it was supposed to be so deep that there was no sunlight down there and it just we would you know you'd go to the set and you'd sit around for 8 10 hours before you even work because they're trying to figure stuff out you know and then he'd go down there and his with his mask and his fins and his and his communication and do something and say okay then you go in there with a suit that's not you know that's negatively weighted with no air supply of your own and it's it just like come on man what the fuck right is it is that if that comes on tv is that a tough one to

watch because of the baggage associated no not at all i mean i think it's cool i like the film i mean i really do no it works yes yeah and met some really great people doing that film you know a couple of them are with us anymore yeah we burmeister and uh another the other fellow shot himself the um it's funny then you go into i don't know if it was immediately there after him like you go into one tough situation then you go into a much which i feel was like not necessarily a chill group of people, but State of Grace is a great movie. But that's like some intense fellows

you're working with on that one. Yeah. Well, that was a crazy time, man. How so? Well, we're shooting in Hell's Kitchen everybody's out of their mind, you know, in a good way, actually, for the film. Sean Penn, Gary Oldman, out of their minds, what?

Quality actors, though. Oh, yeah. Glenn, Gary, Glenn Ross might be one of the most watchable, re-watchable films ever made for me. I had such a good time working with, you know, Alan on that. Oh, my God. It was really fun.

Yeah. They're all amazing. Yeah. You strike me somebody that doesn't get intimidated too easy. Would that company of actors, though? I mean, are there moments on set when you're with the pajamas? No, I never felt intimidated, you know. I always felt like, come on, let's just do this.

Yeah. Did that come from, did you find that from the start when you shifted into acting? Like, was there a comfort immediately on the stage? on a set that felt like, oh, this is what I meant to be doing? Or did that come with years of kind of honing your craft as it worked? Well, you know, the first stuff I was doing on camera was a bunch of television stuff, you know, the late 70s, all those like Hugh Grant, like Lou Grant, heart to heart, chips, Barnaby Jones, you did it all.

You know, you name it. And I can't say that doing those shows, I felt like, yeah, this is what I'm, is my home or anything but stage-wise I've always felt pretty comfortable on the stage yeah you know why do you think that is

well because that's what I did I mean that's what I studied and that's when I got out of school I just would do I was just doing theater in LA I was doing 90 you know 99 seat equity waiver theater probably did 13 14 plays

in like three years when I got out of school right so you did your 10,000 hours you kind of got it in no I mean I yeah I mean that's that's where I learned a lot yeah

still do you feel you feel that way you're still hell yeah i wouldn't do it otherwise right you don't want to be on autopilot the um so back to the film film film work uh sidney pollock uh enjoyable to work with on the firm yeah i got along city great yeah yeah yeah you and you and tom cruise have just re teamed after 25 plus yeah a little bit of the the top gun two thing yeah that was kind of fun. I mean, I just worked for a few days. I like Tom. I get along fine with him. He's amazing. He's a, I mean, a movie star in the best possible way, the best version of a movie star, I think. He knows what he is. Definitely. And he treats everybody with respect, you know. Right. So in something like that, because that's, is that is Jerry producing that one again? Jerry Brockhammer? You've obviously worked with him a few times. Right. Because, you know, you, you obviously have great taste. And yet, and you've also been able to work in those kind of quote-a-quit-budget Hollywood movies,

and by and large, they've been good ones that work on their own terms. Are those, again, like, has it felt like a necessary product of having a successful career of doing things like The Rock, or does it feel like, oh, yeah, this is actually satisfying to me

to do stuff like this. It's paycheck. No, it's not. Well, some of those are. National Treasurer's a paycheck. Well, you've got to be honest about that. I mean, come on. Yeah.

Yeah. Michael Keynesman honest. I mean, I'm, you know, supporting my family, my mother, et cetera, et cetera. So it's like, yeah, you've got to be able to provide. And so there are certain decisions you make that aren't purely, you know, aesthetic ones. Right. But you try to keep those to a minimum. You get along with Michael Bay, all right?

I get along great with Michael. He could be yelling and screaming at everybody, but I don't, you know, I don't take him seriously. Yeah, I think that's the way to do. I've been on one of his sets, and I've sort of seen him. And I think, you know, you appreciate somebody that's a straight shooter, at least, someone that's like, A, knows what they're doing. Yeah. And B, it's not. No, he kind of cracks me up to tell you the truth.

Yeah, he's kind of a caricature of a, of that kind of gut, right? Well, I remember when we were working on the rock, and he said, he said, hey, am I as tough as Jim Cameron? And I said, Michael, I said, what are you talking about? What do you emulate that for? You know, you get as much out of somebody being, like, smart and kind. Yeah, that's not the goal. Like, can I get an award for me the biggest asshole? Whatever.

Well, he achieved his goal. I wanted to be known as this like hard driving dude. So I guess that's what he is. Yeah, I was watching, like, there's like, there's outtakes from the rock where it seems like you're being pretty hard on yourself, like through scenes. Like, it's like, you're the toughest. Well, I remember there was some rap I had to give about Thomas Jefferson and somebody else. And it was just kind of full of. It was just like, come on.

And I just, we get so frustrated, and then I started pounding this phone thing. So every time I had to do something, you just bring the phone to me, like, get my adrenaline going. But is that indicative of how you are in terms of how you treat yourself on a set? Like, are you your own toughest critic? I guess I probably, yeah. I mean, you know, certain little things you can get frustrated, but I can't, especially in film, you can't necessarily rely on a director to demand from you your best work. You have to do it yourself.

Yeah. Often they're looking at a lot of other things. Yeah. Is that something you realized early on? Like, I got to take care of myself. I got to take care of my side of the street. Well, certain experiences for sure that lead you that. But, I mean, I love working with directors who you, who you, I mean, I love working with directors.

If, you know, if we have a good, good relationship. I love being challenged. I love being asked questions. I love being, you know, directed. You know, it's very helpful. What about something like The Truman Show, which was an odd circumstance, I know, because I think Dennis Hopper had started.

Yeah, I came in really late. I had, like, a couple days before I had to be on a set, I think it was. I don't remember. And I had to go to New York. I met Peter out on a beach and, you know. Peter Weir, of course. They were shooting out in Malibu.

And then I had to go to New York. a buddy of mine for something and then came back and started working like on a Tuesday or something, but I love I really love working with Peter and I really enjoyed working with him on the way back, you know, that hardly anybody saw because he kind of dropped that

financially they didn't want to put any more money into it, but he's such a thorough director. I mean, he's so aware of all aspects of the production in such a creative positive way. I really like working with him.

You look at that resume. He's, it's just so eclectic. He can clearly do any kind of yeah. Well, you know, the way back kind of really really bugged him because he it was a tough shoot. I think it's, you know, I think the movie, maybe not as great as film, but I think there's an awful lot of really good stuff in that film and it just got dismissed, you know. Yeah, I think that was his last one too. That's a while. Yeah, I don't think he's made a film since. I saw him in in Spain not long ago we were you being honored now was getting something and it said citrus and uh it was really nice to see him because hadn't seen it for a while yeah

I mean does it feel like it on something like that you're obviously not in any scenes with Jim Jim Carrey like when you see the finished product like when you're delivering that beautiful kind of like last plea to your your child in a way right um which always moves me watching that like had he already shot that are you seeing reference of what what he had done or is going to do? I mean, is that challenging for you? I mean, obviously, it's the nature of film where sometimes the actor isn't there,

but that seems like an extreme. I'm trying to remember. I don't really recall. I mean, in my memory, I'm talking to him on the screen, but I don't know if that's the case. I don't remember. Amazing. Well, that speaks well to the situation, I suppose.

Not so long after that, you kind of reached what was, You completed a passion project, which was Pollock, obviously, which was something that, as I understand, it wasn't necessarily the plan to direct. Not initially, no. I mean, I worked on pretty much most of the 90s in terms of the script, which was initially 262 pages long. And got the rights to the work, started painting, met a lot of people. Yeah, I finally shot it in 99, I think it was. So were you trying to get other people to direct you in that? I showed it to some people. I showed it to Peter.

I showed it to Neshka Holland. I'm not sure if the script, if I had really got the script in the best shape. And then I got a call from, you know, Peter Brandt, who produced Basquiat, a big art collector.

He ended up financing it partially. And he and Robert De Niro were buddies. And Bob and I had worked on Jackknife and DeNiro had directed his first film not too long prior to that. And he actually called me and said, you know, you should just do this yourself, you know, you should direct it yourself, which was kind of encouraging because, and I also realized I didn't, you know, the people that I showed it to, they had their own thoughts and ideas about it. And I went and had spent so long and so much time on this. I said, I don't want to hand this over to somebody else, you know. So I just took a deep breath and said, all right, let's see if we can handle this. You've directed, I also, Appaloosa is a great film to me.

Yeah, I love Appaloosa. You know, I've got this other thing. I'm trying to. get going if I can get the damn money. It's just hard. I've been trying to raise the money for like three years, you know. Streaming, Netflix. Montana novel that I've adapted. So did the experience of Pollock feel like

did it shift anything for you in terms of that's a big experience? Well, it just made me, first of all, it fulfilled something that I had which has to be sad. Become obsessed with. Secondly, I realized that I could,

direct the film. And then I tried to find another, and then it was seven and eight years later, I did Appaloosa. Now it's been 10 years since then, you know, war. It's something I love to do. In terms of film, I really love director. And I'm not a director as, you know, for hire, you know, but I really love it because it's just, it's consuming. You're in charge artistically. You're constantly making decisions creatively. It's a 20, you're a 20, before seven endeavor as opposed to being an actor in a film where you go to the set and you sit around and you're fucking trailer for 10 hours and in front of the camera for five minutes. Right. You know, which is at this point in my career after doing this for so long, drives me

absolutely crazy. Right. Even more than at the start now, it's not gotten easier. It's got it. No. It's just like, what am I doing? Yeah, I'm an actor. This is what I want to do. I don't, I am not being paid. I mean, you are being paid to sit around sometimes it feels like. Yeah, but it just gets a little tough at times. What are you doing the down time?

how do you keep your mind active and stay present in a trailer you mean yeah i have i've always have baseball glove with me two of them i have catches try to read something depends what i'm doing and what the scene is that i'm working on that day because if it's a certain kind of intensity required in a certain place i need to be i'll kind of just trying to stay in a certain you know place in my being you know to be there when it's time to go but you know you just i don't know play scrabble on the phone i mean you know whatever like what we're all doing when we're not working um the baseball club reminds me of the there's there's folklore about you in field of dreams that you are the voice no that's not true not true not at all that's just the amy assistant

Yeah, maybe jump to that conclusion. It sounded a little... You know, they're doing this Yankees White Sox thing on the field. That's how so? In the spring, they're doing this whole game. Oh, really? Yeah. I didn't know that.

Yeah, on the field of the movie. That's amazing. Yeah. I'm a big Yankee fan. That's awesome. Yeah, me, I too. I grew up with Mickey Mantle, you know, like in the 50s, man. Yeah, I'm the Don Mattingly generation.

I was like to say, like, when I came of age, it was like the 10 years. years where they actually didn't make the playoffs exactly yeah like there was actually a time when the yanke sucked and it was right before matting or the madding were basically they're going to get a pitcher or what it sounds like it yeah they're looking out to all the strasburg the big ones right yeah yeah talking to cole we'll see sure help yeah let's just not go into the knicks yeah basketball fan too uh yeah uh yeah a little bit i follow not huge yeah um you've tv's always been pretty good to you i mean you've from the start i mean you've from the start i mean you You've done some, you've done HBO things before.

A couple, yeah, Empire Falls and... Yeah, game change, obviously. Yeah, game change, yeah. So no wariness when Westworld came around? Well, you know, I talked to Jonah, Nolan, the creator of it, and it sounded, you know, sounded pretty interesting. And it was a pretty cool character to play, I thought. Not that I knew exactly where it was.

was going. I was going to say, I mean, it's well-known by now. Because if I had known what season three was like, I'm not sure I would have said yes. You wanted to be in the West. It's called West World. Season three, man. Less horses? Yeah.

That's your spoiler. A few. Yeah. But that must be, I mean, I guess, let's look at the bright side, invigorating in some ways that it's constantly surprising you. yeah it's definitely constantly surprising me but challenging that you don't know the arc you don't know where you're going from the start like that's

it's a little bizarre yeah I mean it's well known you didn't know Jimmy was playing you that's insane from the start Jimmy Simpson right I mean is that piss you off at the time I saw this guy walking her trailers who's that and I said oh that he's the guy he's playing you younger I said what

anyway is Alan Funtback as candid camera come back around Um, no, I mean, it's just, you know, people get it. People that dig it, really dig it. And it's, it's very interesting thing to work on. You know, it is a commitment, obviously, of time. But, uh, you know, I'm, I'm game. Do you feel like, are you reactive to what you've just worked on? Like, when you've just done something like when you come off Mockingburger, are you going to be itching to do a whole different kind of a thing? Well, I'm hoping to get in pre-production. The thing I want to do in April, you know, we'll see what happens. Yeah. Yeah, no, I just, I can't really, I don't know how I'll feel. Yeah.

Are there directors that have surprisingly alluded you over the years? I've never worked with Scorsese. That's what I, it struck me too. I thought of that. Which would be fun, I'm sure. I never worked with Spielberg, you know, those kind of guys. Come close on either of those? I don't think so.

Where are the Cone brothers? Where are the Cone brothers? The Cohn brothers did ask me at one point to do one of their films. I was busy. I couldn't do it. Can't do it all. One of the least successful films, actually. Which one?

Was the one that ended up, uh, what's his name, did it, you know? He's got three names. Oh, wow. It's just kind of dark. We can work on this after the podcast. Okay. Ed and I are going to crap this nut. So, still time for the Cone.

Yeah, and I really would like to work with my, you know, and I'd like to work with director Bong again, which would really be cool. Oh, he's no, Pearser, of course, he worked on it. Have you seen Parasite? I saw it, yeah, parasites are great. Oh, my God. I dug it. The guy kills me, you know? All of his films are blow me away. Yeah, he's kind of simultaneously both like a dramatist and a satirist and like all of it. He can do it all. Yeah, and he's, plus he's a good guy, you know, and I really like to wear the Nyesha, Holland again.

You know, we've made three movies together, but it's been a while, so. and I wouldn't love to work Peter Weir again. It's fine. Ran into Ron Howard the other day. It wouldn't mind working with Iran again. Good guy. Yeah. Just a solid guy. Yeah. Is, uh, do you get excited by, like, when you see like a young actor, deliver a powerhouse performance? Does that inspire you to excite you? Do you have... Uh, yeah, it's always fun to see good work. You know, I mean, there's so many good actors out there. It's kind of amazing, really. And there's so much being done now. You know, you can't keep up with everything. It's crazy.

it's insane do you watch much TV or streaming I'll get into certain shows you know yeah but right now I haven't because I'm busy doing the play yeah do you find you're a different person

during a production like is there Ed during work and Ed off hours like in terms of like for this run for this four months or whatever you're doing are you a bit of a different guy than you are the rest of the year

if I asked Amy probably yeah because i'm doing eight shows a week so i've got to stay you know yeah you can't turn that on enough like that you know yeah um i mean i'm here for six months to do this play eight shows a week that's why i'm here yeah there's no other reason that i'm here in new york and so that's my focus right you know whatever i got to do during the day to make sure that night i can do the best job I can. That's what I do. Do the accolades mean much? I feel like you're an actor's actor. Actors appreciate you.

Well, you know, I don't even I mean, it's nice to be appreciated, you know what I mean? But like this instance, it's already been there's no Tony thing, there's none of that stuff. Yeah, this is just for the work. I'm just doing a play. So it's really kind of refreshing. Yeah, there's none of that baggage

associated with it. But it should be said. I'll say this kind of thing because you can't. But for Oscar nominations, it's kind of crazy that there's not at least one in the one of those statues at the home base. What are you going to do? What are you going to do? Well, you come back when you get the Oscar, or if not sooner. Okay.

Be your pleasure, Josh. Honestly, as you can tell, I'm such a fan of your work and you're killing it again on stage. I really should check out to kill a mockingbird. You said you've got about 20 weeks left? You got 19 weeks left to catch Ed? After this week, we've got 19. Okay. But who's counting?

Yeah, I'm not. That's certainly not it. A real pleasure, so thanks for a time. Thanks, Josh. All right, have a good one. And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts.

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